NationStates Jolt Archive

Should British Londinium be expellled from UFAN for plate glassing North Calaveras?

OOC: Keep OOC hatred for NC out of your answer. Essentially I already know the answer, but I have to post this to make sure it is "democratic". Just vote, and make an IC statement if you wish.

And the reason for the post being crap and not "pretty" is because I have already gauged the response, and see no need for a "pretty" post at this time.

Green Hawk will abstain from voting.

We have given the Londinians a chance to prove that they had changed, and they failed. We vote in favor of expulsion.

ooc: can non UFAN members vote?

ooc: can non UFAN members vote?

OOC: You can, but I have made the poll public, thus I will be able to see non-UFAN member's votes. As such, I will disregard the votes from non-UFAN members. But feel free to vote, it will just have no effect.

We must alas agree with our Prestonian comrades. Not only has the Londinian government apparently used the letter of our charter to viciously abuse the spirit thereof in carrying out what effectively amounted to a genocidal nuclear strike upon the vaguest of provocations, but they have also proven most uncooperative with our Prestonian friends in general. We assented to their Membership Plan as finalized by Kampfers (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12927846) upon the belief that not only had they dismantled their giant blenders and taken certain diplomatic steps; but rather, fundamentally, in the hope that the Londinian nation was willing to take a step beyond its rampantly imperialistic past and into a new era. That has not happened, and that trust has been pushed one step too far, by far; at least in my own government's opinion. Wagdog must, regretfully, vote for expulsion.

Christine Friedrich,
Deputy Commander-in-Chief, USSW War Office
Deputy Party Secretary, Wagdian Revolutionary Party
Deputy General Secretary, USSW Revolutionary Command Council
Secretary General, United Federation of Allied Nations.

OOC: I had a change of heart regarding this situation. Furthermore I would like to know if Hal is a UFAN member cuz if not then the Nay vote is in the lead.

OOC: Do you need 2/3 to expel a member, or a simple majority?

OOC: I had a change of heart regarding this situation. Furthermore I would like to know if Hal is a UFAN member cuz if not then the Nay vote is in the lead.
OOC: Checking... Nope, though I take it this means you're to be counted as an 'aye' now, right?:confused:

ooc: whats wrong with you people he should be given a medal not ejected..:p

OOC: Check the poll vote if you want to know Wag.

I believe the nays are in the lead, correct?

Current UFAN vote:

Aye: 3
Nay: 3
Abstain: 1

Ah. Curses, then.

EDIT: Wait, isn't Animarnia in UFAN?

Curses. It is now 3-4 nays. Oh well. Even if the vote doesn't work, I'll just go over your heads. I can't see why any UFAN members are voting no though. This is the second time he has directly violated UFAN law, maybe more.

OOC: Do you need 2/3 to expel a member, or a simple majority?
Simple majority. It's the way kicking was done with Hataria, although since he's been retconned out there is no IC precedent now; only OOC precedent among those that remember.

ooc: whats wrong with you people he should be given a medal not ejected..:p
OOC2: So NC's being a nubcake is now a genocide-worthy offense eh?:rolleyes: Your opinion, not mine; and in any event BL violated the terms of his admittance (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12927846&postcount=239) by attacking NC with what turned out to be colonization in mind, every bit as much as his nuclear strike pushed Article III of the Charter to the breaking point if not precisely beyond. UFAN is not an imperialism-friendly alliance; although we do make some allowances if we're attacked by someone we deem too dangerous and unstable to keep independent, such as The Fighting Stars.

Ah. Curses, then.

EDIT: Wait, isn't Animarnia in UFAN?

No. Not even an associate state. Not yet.

No, it's the first time I've violated it whilst it applied to me. And that's hardly fair to have a vote and then disregard it. If the majority of the alliance wishes for me to remain, I think you should abide by popular opinion.

And, no, there's no colonization in mind of NC. Remember Germany after WWII? They split it up into zones and reunited them later, at least in the West. I don't want to colonize in the least.

Sensible Cannibals takes the sensible route and decides to abstain.
Regardless of the outcome of this poll Sensible Cannibals remains neutral and invites all world leaders to a scandalous orgy of APEC proportions.

May you live long, prosper and properly opress you peoples.

Sensible Cannibals takes the sensible route and decides to abstain.
Regardless of the outcome of this poll Sensible Cannibals remains neutral and invites all world leaders to a scandalous orgy of APEC proportions.

May you live long, prosper and properly opress you peoples.

You aren't in UFAN. Stop spamming. And...eww.

Curses. It is now 3-4 nays. Oh well. Even if the vote doesn't work, I'll just go over your heads. I can't see why any UFAN members are voting no though. This is the second time he has directly violated UFAN law, maybe more.
OOC: Kampf, TG. BL, the fact that you've gone so far as to carve NC up with Vetalia pretty much makes matters clear here. We may be ICly in the dark about some things, but others are simply obvious. If you relinquished your territorial administration in favor of a UFAN-wide one, that might argue better in your favor; but for now ICly my government will call it like we see it.

All Apologies.

*Benevolent Leader leaves the room*

OOC: Ah. Well, I would have done that, had I not imminently expected to be thrown out. I don't intend on keeping my part of NC; the division of the territory simply refers to the areas our respective nations are responsible for.

If UFAN wants coalition control of my territorial area, they're welcome to it - if I remain in the alliance.

OOC: Kampf, TG. BL, the fact that you've gone so far as to carve NC up with Vetalia pretty much makes matters clear here. We may be ICly in the dark about some things, but others are simply obvious. If you relinquished your territorial administration in favor of a UFAN-wide one, that might argue better in your favor; but for now ICly my government will call it like we see it.

TG replied.

BL, the "going over your heads" part was a lame attempt at a joke... :p

Ah. :p My mistake.

Simple majority. It's the way kicking was done with Hataria, although since he's been retconned out there is no IC precedent now; only OOC precedent among those that remember.


OOC2: So NC's being a nubcake is now a genocide-worthy offense eh?:rolleyes: Your opinion, not mine; and in any event BL violated the terms of his admittance (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12927846&postcount=239) by attacking NC with what turned out to be colonization in mind, every bit as much as his nuclear strike pushed Article III of the Charter to the breaking point if not precisely beyond. UFAN is not an imperialism-friendly alliance; although we do make some allowances if we're attacked by someone we deem too dangerous and unstable to keep independent, such as The Fighting Stars.


OOC: NC was unstable...just put that on top of being a nubcake...and thats precisely why I'm not in the UFAN...civil rights..should be more like civil privileges..;).

OOC: Hamilay is voting no, because we can't criticise BL for doing what we essentially would, although you won't know that. Well, to be more precise, we'd continue the invasion as normal, but with copious use of tactical chemical and nuclear weapons (maybe some anthrax for good measure) and nuke any city that resists heavily. Now, if one of those nukes hit Hamilay, well, then, you're completely glassed. ICly we frown on nuclear first strikes and hold in contempt small nations like NC who resort to them.

Also, we released that statement supporting BL, which we now regret, but we'd look stupid(er) if we contradicted it.

No, it's the first time I've violated it whilst it applied to me. And that's hardly fair to have a vote and then disregard it. If the majority of the alliance wishes for me to remain, I think you should abide by popular opinion.

And, no, there's no colonization in mind of NC. Remember Germany after WWII? They split it up into zones and reunited them later, at least in the West. I don't want to colonize in the least.

OOC:

Whether you have violated the Charter two times matters not the Charter of UFAN was still violated. The Charter is not like that of the United Nations wherby you only tow the line when it suits you. The whole point of UFAN is that its a force for good better than of the Sovereign League.

I accept NC brought a nuclear response upon himself and to a degree your nuclear response would of been within the Charter however the use of 27,000 Nuclear Weapons was Overkill and totally not required. 27 Nuclear Weapons upon Strategic Targets would of been much better and would of got the same job done.

BL what you have done is no better and is the same that what the Sovereign League did to you when they invaded and occupied you all those months back, so on that note your actions are very Contradictory are they not?

I have voted Yes on the explusion of BL.

V

Oooh, BL's in trouble.

I'll be informing the ADAN, his new alliance which I am a member of.

The Free Land of Dartia votes in favor of expelling British Londinium from UFAN with all speed and prejudice.

While it can be argued that British Londinium's nuclear attack was justified, the quantity of warheads used can be viewed as nothing other than a sign of mental defect on the part of their leader.

British Londinium's reckless use of 12,825,000 kilotons worth of nuclear warheads will have lasting effect on our entire planet for generations to come. In addition to the obvious damage done to North and South Calaveras, our scientists expect the following consequences:

- worldwide increased radiation levels
- worldwide climate change
- worldwide increase in birth defects
- worldwide shorter life spans
- extinction of numerous plant and animal species
- untold billions killed by lethal fallout

Our nation is disturbed and alarmed to see this matter has not been settled already. British Londinium needs to be kicked to the curb, and it should have happened yesterday.

Admitting the wrong nations to our ranks is the most effective means of bringing disaster to our alliance. We thought that lesson had been learned during the Hataria fiasco. The fact British Londinium was allowed to participate in UFAN over our objections shows that it was not.

Be advised this incident has caused our own nation to reconsider our continued participation in UFAN. If nations like Hataria and British Londinium continue to be admitted, our people will have a hard time viewing UFAN membership as anything other than a liability.

OOC:

- worldwide increased radiation levels
- worldwide climate change
- worldwide increase in birth defects
- worldwide shorter life spans
- extinction of numerous plant and animal species
- untold billions killed by lethal fallout

I thought the after effects of nuclear war were just some of those things which we ignore in II because it wouldn't work, like the fact that there are trillions of people on NS earth which should all die due to the planet's extreme gravity or whatever it is. There've been enough mass nuclear strikes to do the above many times over.

ooc: I think Sovereign League nuked Nova Britannica even worse(it happened then they invaded BL), so those climate changes and stuff are usually ignored.

OOC: Generally (though I'm not an expert) the effects of a nuclear war are confined to the victim and nearby nations that choose to RP them.

OOC: Generally (though I'm not an expert) the effects of a nuclear war are confined to the victim and nearby nations that choose to RP them.

OOC: Having started and ended a great deal of nuclear wars (hehe) I agree with BL that the effects of a nuclear war are confined to the victime and nearby nations that choose to RP them.

Just a heads up, British Londinium was expelled from the ADAN following that nuclear attack.

OOC: Yes, I realize it is not practical for the entire nationstates community to roleplay the effects of a nuclear winter. Nevertheless, I choose to treat British Londinium as a menace even if the catastrophe he caused is not roleplayed.

OOC:
Let's just put it this way. Twenty-seven thousand nuclear weapons detonating within moments of each other is enough to destroy anything within a bare minimum of 200 miles. The huge pressure waves would be enough to be felt for at least 500 miles. The radiation would kill everything. British Lonidinium just pretty much killed the world.

Being only a member who has recently applied to join, I don't know if my vote counts, but I will say this;

Wow, that dude knows how to overkill. Think about it, however, do we really want to anger someone who has the ability to launch 27,000 nukes? And I'd say expulsion would be pretty provocative. I abstain, not that it counts for anything :p

Being only a member who has recently applied to join, I don't know if my vote counts, but I will say this;

Wow, that dude knows how to overkill. Think about it, however, do we really want to anger someone who has the ability to launch 27,000 nukes? And I'd say expulsion would be pretty provocative. I abstain, not that it counts for anything :p

OOC: BL is nothing compared to the rest of the UFAN combined...

OOC: BL is nothing compared to the rest of the UFAN combined...

That's true :)

Olmedreca;12961770']ooc: I think Sovereign League nuked Nova Britannica even worse(it happened then they invaded BL), so those climate changes and stuff are usually ignored.

OOC: Seeing as I am Nova Brittanica, no, this is much worse. I only got nuked something like four gigatons, and it was much more deserved. After all, I actually launched nukes, not just prepared to launch them.

Um, I'm not in the UFAN but I'm really interested in this, anyone got a link to the thread where BL did this?

I woke up one day to find my ally destroyed with a nuclear holocaust. Operation Caremal Teacup holds all the answers you need.

Yah, I just read it and that was the stupidest thing i have ever seen done. NC didn't do anything with nukes, BL decided to open fire. Idiotic. I will probably join the UFAN just to vote against him and then leave. Not really.

ZAckaroth would like to switch its vote and vote Aye for BL explusion.

Current UFAN vote-

Ayes- 6
Nays- 5

OOC: Seeing as I am Nova Brittanica, no, this is much worse. I only got nuked something like four gigatons, and it was much more deserved. After all, I actually launched nukes, not just prepared to launch them.

I have seen haven states claiming that it was 93 gigatons and Nswiki gives same number.

OOC: Meh. I was merely recalling, probably just recalling a decimal. I wouldn't be surprised, eight SL nations, all very big and powerful. I wouldn't be surprised, although some people were doubtful when I said the islands were completly destroyed. Can I have a link to the NSWiki article?

OOC: Meh. I was merely recalling, probably just recalling a decimal. I wouldn't be surprised, eight SL nations, all very big and powerful. I wouldn't be surprised, although some people were doubtful when I said the islands were completly destroyed. Can I have a link to the NSWiki article?

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Invasion_of_British_Londinium
quote: "Over fifty thousand warheads of a combined total yield of ninety three gigatons impacted the main areas of Nova Brittanica."

bump for UFAN response.

If it is any interest to you lot, BL's been expelled from the ADAN permenantly.

(It is one of our rules that you cannot use nuclear weapons without expressed permission)

If it is any interest to you lot, BL's been expelled from the ADAN permenantly.

(It is one of our rules that you cannot use nuclear weapons without expressed permission)
OOC: Yeah, that should also be taken into account, even if we have no such legislation ourselves. Such disregard for alliance rules seems to be a pattern in his case... Thanks.
Also, BUMP for all UFAN members who haven't voted yet. This is important enough for all of us to be heard!

If nobody minds, I voted too.

bump. still tied.

Also, PROHT/Antigr/Dephire/any ADAN people who care:

Aiding Maldorians will put you at war with the New Prussian Empire and our allies, just so you know. That is why we suggested that you not accept him until after the NPE-CA war was over.

bump. still tied.

Also, PROHT/Antigr/Dephire/any ADAN people who care:

Aiding Maldorians will put you at war with the New Prussian Empire and our allies, just so you know. That is why we suggested that you not accept him until after the NPE-CA war was over.

We would appreciate a list of who voted how if that is doable. I am mainly interested in the "nay" votes. Many thanks.

We would appreciate a list of who voted how if that is doable. I am mainly interested in the "nay" votes. Many thanks.

I had given this a few times on the UFAN IRC chanell, but heres one here as well.

Ayes- Central Prestonia, Dartia, Kampfers, Vetaka, Wagdog, Zackaroth

Nays- Aurum Domus, British Londinium, Calizorinstan, Granate, Hamilay, Vetalia

Abstain- Green Hawk

The Free Land of Dartia believes British Londinium should have no say in this matter. For one, they are only probationary members. Secondly, we can think of no justice system in the world that allows the accused to sit on their own jury.

We vote Aye

33 hours left on the ballot. The vote now stands 7-6 in favor.

(ooc I accidentally voted as Lokii)

the federal Union supports this move as committing genocide is an atrocity.

Thanks, Kampfers. Although I do see the Invasion of Maldorians as rather pointless and without reason. :rolleyes:

The Armed Republic of Southern Odinia is supporting the expulsion and also recommends freezing assets and a UFAN coalition invasion.

If this organization moves to declare war on British Londinium, we will resign our position in the UFAN and side with them in the conflict.

However, we will respect the decision of this alliance to expel them, and only that decision to expel them, if the voting results ultimately lead to that outcome. That is a responsible decision made by the alliance in accordance with its policies. However, we cannot, and will not, condone or abide attacking British Londinium and the full force of our military will be deployed, if necessary, to avert such an outcome.

The Free Empire suggests not attacking the Peoples' Sovereign Republic, as the Peoples' Sovereign Republic is under attack by the Supreme State.

The Armed Republic of Southern Odinia is supporting the expulsion and also recommends freezing assets and a UFAN coalition invasion.

If this organization moves to declare war on British Londinium, we will resign our position in the UFAN and side with them in the conflict.

However, we will respect the decision of this alliance to expel them, and only that decision to expel them, if the voting results ultimately lead to that outcome. That is a responsible decision made by the alliance in accordance with its policies. However, we cannot, and will not, condone or abide attacking British Londinium and the full force of our military will be deployed, if necessary, to avert such an outcome.

The Free Empire suggests not attacking the Peoples' Sovereign Republic, as the Peoples' Sovereign Republic is under attack by the Supreme State.

TO: All Nations:

There will be no invasion of British Londinium by the UFAN if the nation is removed from our ranks. Such an invasion would be hypocritical. The attack would serve no purpose besides imperialism, which we in UFAN firmly do not condone. The removal of British Londinium from UFAN shall serve as their lesson. To take it farther would only lower us to their level.

Sincerely,
Fuhrer Richtoff

OOC: NO Invasion of BL what so ever is in the pipeline. Any such Invasion will not be carried out under a UFAN Banner.

OOC: Besides BL has enough on his plate with Kraven invading

OOC: Plus, we've authorized individual members like Vetalia to defend BL against Kraven; though that won't be a sanctioned operation either unless it comes down to defending member homelands AFAIK.

OCC: I would like the bodys of Kash, and the other communist party members, i want my people to know if there dead or not.

OOC: ICly, nobody knows that those men are dead. ICly, it is believed that they are prisoners of war in Tasmania.

OOC: Bump. 11 hours remaining. Pro BL expulsion leads by 3.

By a vote of nine in favor of expulsion to seven opposed, counting the switched vote of High Leader Strangaild from Zackaroth in favor versus British Londinium's own against which was included as a courtesy, the People's Sovereign Republic of British Londinium is hereby and forthwith expelled from the United Federation of Allied Nations. Justice, however imperfect, has been served for Kensington's blatant disregard for human rights, even the rights of an enemy population during time of war, against North Calaveras.

I would like to thank all who sent in opinion, even from non-member nations; you have spoken, and whether triumphant or beaten your voices were indeed heard and appreciated even if they couldn't count towards the vote itself. I have no doubt that our Federation will move on, and survive the controversy surrounding this expulsion. Know, British Londinium, that we have no intention of using this expulsion as a stalking horse for war. If anything, I have used my authority as chair of the High Council to authorize discretionary operations by member nations in your defense against probable attack by the Kraven Corporation. Simply put, Premier Azzopardi, we respect our member nations and their sovereignty of conscience; something your government would do well to learn a decent respect for towards the world at large in future.

Sincerely,
Christine Friedrich
Deputy Commander-in-Chief, USSW War Office
Deputy Party Secretary, Wagdian Revolutionary Party
Deputy General Secretary, Wagdian Revolutionary Command Council
Secretary General, United Federation of Allied Nations