NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, I want to start some preliminary discussion here so that we can get off to a good start without confusion. I've alread TGed ViZion, so to help move things forward so they can plan accordingly, I'll start discussing and signing people up now.

Here's the idea:

Vetalia is moving increasingly nationalist and is launching a huge arms buildup with the intent to launch aggressive war against its enemies. ViZion is the primary target of this war, firstly because Vetalian Cazelia offers a good staging ground for our forces and secondly because we feel their interventionism stymied our advance in the region. The war will begin with an "Operation Barbarossa" themed invasion, with our forces trying to knock them out of the war as quickly as possible and their side trying to resist the invasion. Depending on whether Cazelia decides to commit, we will either have a Ribbentropp-Molotov style situation where they are divided first or an immediate invasion of ViZion.

There will be two main sides in the war, my allies and ViZion's, and both sides will ideally be more or less balanced in economic and military terms to ensure that the war is a war, not a dogpile on one side or another that ends with no combat. I want this to be a war that tests all aspects of war RP on both sides. The goal will be to use multiple forms of war to destroy the enemy's economic and military capacity, and then defeat/occupy them. From there, the winning side will roleplay postwar reconstruction and reorganization.

Here are some ground rules I've thought of, but interested participants are free to suggest changes:


1. No alliances outside of the ones set up for this RP. I want to keep this closed between the involved sides to prevent chaos and imbalances between sides.

2. All players are strongly encouraged to roleplay their countries' natural resources to their advantage. Monsoons, snowstorms heat/coldand the like (of course, within reason to prevent godmoding) are all encouraged to make the war more realistic.

3. Please, please, please everybody make a map! It's so hard roleplaying when nobody knows where they're going or how the country is laid out. It doesn't have to be very detailed, just enough to let us know where important stuff is.

For RP purposes, 1 day will equal 1 month of macro-war time, with fluid time in place for battles. So, if you're building a new ship that takes a month to complete, it'll be ready tomorrow.

Ideally, I want to launch this within the next 4 or 5 days.
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Vetalian Allies (official name pending)
-Vetalia
-New Manth
-The Warmaster
-NeoAztec
-Red Tide
-British Londinum
-Steel and Fire (Tyrandis)
-Smyrnag

ViZion Allies
-ViZion
-DMG
-Mondoth
-The Lone Alliance
-Kanisov
-Cazelia
-Duneria

Partisans (in occupied regions, good character RP skills strongly suggested since this will all be small-unit action)

Vetalian Loyalists
-The PeoplesFreedom
-Dalnijrus

ViZion Loyalist Partisans
-Mondoth
-The Lone Alliance

Other (nationalist/independence/revolutionary movements against Vetalia and ViZion)
-Kampfers

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Once NSDossier is running properly again, I'll start calculating data for the two sides.

Sounds interesting. Sounds like something I might like to be involved in, though I am not sure on whose side or in what capacity.

(Dossier is working for me fine)

Is it up? I'll start calculating stuff once we have some people signed up.

Which side would you be interested in (you can change at any time, at least for now)?

Is it up? I'll start calculating stuff once we have some people signed up.

Which side would you be interested in (you can change at any time, at least for now)?

Aye.

Well, if I had to pick now, it would be ViZion simply because it seems like you are being the agressor.

Okay, you've been added.

Bump before dinner.

Ideally, I want to start it 5 days from now. That should be enough time for everything to be ready.

Hmmm, when is this set to go off? I are in a war of my own, but maybe if I win quickly enough I can come help Vetalia. Or if things start looking sour for Vetalia I might come help anyway.

You have a TG by the way Vetalia.

I want in. Not only to help ViZion, but to get revenge for you ruining my rightous smackdown.

Oh I RP partisans using my Puppet, but you can still consider it my nation.

I'm interested, just sign me on the dossier. Not sure who I want to be, but i'll pick Vetalia for now.

This sounds fun, but I'm going to be gone from tomorrow until a week from today. Would I still be able to participate? Oh, and if so, I would be on Cazelia's side; my government hates ViZion, since they are enemies of Doomingsland.

You'd be on Vetalia's side, Warmaster, and you can enter later since I don't plan on starting this RP for five more days. Cazelia is kind of neutral in this situation, and may or may not be participating.

You and NeoAztec are added to my side. I'll have some preliminary econ/pop estimates up later.

I wouldn't mind roleplaying one of the partisans. I don't care which side.

You'd be on Vetalia's side, Warmaster, and you can enter later since I don't plan on starting this RP for five more days. Cazelia is kind of neutral in this situation, and may or may not be participating.

You and NeoAztec are added to my side. I'll have some preliminary econ/pop estimates up later.

Awesome! Can't wait.

I wouldn't mind roleplaying one of the partisans. I don't care which side.

Hmm, maybe the Vetalian partisans in Cazelia and ViZion?

If there's room, it looks like the Tartarystan situation may resolve itself without too much further conflict and I could jump in on Vizion's side.

All the wars I've tried to get into since I came back have had peace break out all over them before getting to interesting :(

Maybe you could toss some Mondothians-in-exile as Partisans in too.

(OOC: Warmater, My revolution sort of ended by fiat, but if you're still open to hosting an Ex-patriate government they'd love to get off that island.)

Alright, you're in. You can also RP as pro-ViZion partisans in occupied areas.

EDIT: Actually, scratch that. I misread your population as 7.5 billion rather than 5.7, which makes a huge difference.

Since you're a pretty big nation, I'll have to limit the number of people on ViZion's side temporarily until I can calculate the population and economy balance. It's about the same size as you.

And me? Or are you just ignoring me.

It's about the same size as you.

I misread their population by accident.

And me? Or are you just ignoring me.

Sorry, I missed your post. You can RP both as a ViZion ally and as pro-ViZion partisans.

Ill be one of the invaders!

My rationale is that my economy is geared towards fighting wars. Therefore, my nation MUST get into a major conflict.

Hmm, maybe the Vetalian partisans in Cazelia and ViZion?

That's fine with me.

Alright, preliminary totals are up for the alliances (partisans not included):

Vizion: 17.929 billion people, $720.928 trillion in GDP

Vetalia: 18.798 billion people, $559.75 trillion in GDP

This is still open on all sides, so feel free to sign up.

Ill be one of the invaders!

My rationale is that my economy is geared towards fighting wars. Therefore, my nation MUST get into a major conflict.

Red Tide, this will be interesting...on the same side yet again. And this will be a major conflict...don't worry about that for a second. ;)

Also, with the addition of Red Tide to my side, the balance is now much closer and new ViZion allies will be accepted.

How big you looking to get this?

Can I be a group of armed Cazelians (bout 10) who hate both ViZion and Vetalia and will attack them both?

I side with Vetalia.

How big you looking to get this?

I want populations for the two sides capped at around 30 billion each. That's big enough for a large war, and then the partisans will run character RPs that run parallel to the macro-scale war to show the effects at all levels.

That would be 6 or 7 large nations on each side in the alliance.

Can I be a group of armed Cazelians (bout 10) who hate both ViZion and Vetalia and will attack them both?

Absolutely! I wanted a third party group of partisans involved in the situation.

I'm tempted to join in on Vetalia's side, although big wars with lots of people involved are a bit disorienting. If anyone's up for a little side war thing, let me know.

Actually, Steel and Fire, that would be better for the overall structure of the RP.

I think it would be easier to run if different members of each side fought out campaigns (e.g., the Western Front/Eastern Front in WWII) under the overall conflict between me and ViZion.

Remember, this is still in the planning stage, so any comments are encouraged.

Absolutely! I wanted a third party group of partisans involved in the situation.

Great. Due to certain other RPs, my group will be active, but not as much as I'd like them to be. I suppose I will just discount that as them "lying low" to avoid suspicion.

Well, some side wars would make sense, while others won't. For example, until we come to ViZion's aid, attacking our nations would seem very strange (as I, for one, am not allied with him yet).

I'm going out. I'll be back later tonight.

I'm probably going to close the Vetalian side soon so that it doesn't get too big, and DMG, I agree. We may start strictly ViZion-Vetalia and then escalate it like WWI or WWII.

However, keep coming up with ideas and I'll check them out tomorrow.

Some side war ideas:

"Battle of the Alantic" style war as we all try to destroy each other's naval supply routes. (This could lead to a Lusitania like situation which causes someone to enter into the war)

Short Raid RPs in which one nation sends a commando team of some sort to another to destroy something. (Like Harbor facilities, Airfields, expermential weapons) as well as planting and removing spies.

POW uprisings or having prisoners freed by Partisans.
(Good way to have Partisan intros)

Partisan actions against logistics within occuiped nations.

Third parties trying to take advantage of the chaos (good if any criminal nations or terrorists join in.)

Meh, I figure we all just RP our actions like we would in a real full-on war; infiltration, attacks, civilian massacres (in my case *evil grin*), and that sort of thing, limited by pragmatism and RL concerns only. Like...if I wanted to start a Battle of the Atlantic-ish front against ViZion, I'd just RP an attack, and if he had time in RL, he could fight back, etc. In short, open the fronts you want to.

I would like to join this RP, on Vizon's side.

Maybe we would do some naval battles? That would be cool...

OOC:Can i be Vetalia´s allie but only to support him with logistics?Like supplying him with armament?Of course if needed i could use my units to fight in the war also

If so Vetalia,please tell me what do you plan on using during the war so that i can add it to my factory inventory

Thank you

Hmmm, now i realised my Nation is on the losing side lol. But we have DMG, that could save us some trouble...

Rawr?

Bah, what are you talking about. We will use our superior intellect and cunning to devise victory.

Alright, I think it's time to close the RP. I'll allow one more person on ViZion's side to balance it a little more, but other than that this is the total.

Now, in regard to the conduct of the war, we'll have a main OOC thread where all of the information is kept and threads detailed, and a big map detailing the overall war. Order has to be a fundamental component of the RP because nothing undoes it faster than a lack of order.

Also, we need basic maps of every nation involved. This is not optional, simply because a lack of a map is a huge ass hassle during an RP.

OOC:Vetalia,do you need me to add anything to my inventory for later use during the war?

Vetalia, who will be attacking who?

DMG im talking about your crazy weapons in your market ;)

OOC:Vetalia,do you need me to add anything to my inventory for later use during the war?

We'll see. For now, I need your arms factories and infrastructure more than anything else.

Also, TLA, you have a TG.

Does that include me? I am only doing partisans.

Does that include me? I am only doing partisans.

No, you'll use the map of whatever nation you are operating in. This goes for all partisan groups.

i'm in

I'm in, I'm going to be on the side of ViZion
I'll be roleplaying a commander and his forces

Well, here is a rough map and some info in my Invader's Guide (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10327920&postcount=9).

However, I will repeat it quicker here. Here is the thing about invading me, peeps:
My nation is in the antarctic nation and it is contained to a very small, frigid, fortress-like (i.e. it is a five hundred meter plateau) island. Furthermore, because it is so cold and icy, everyone and everything exists in a massive underground city.

What this means: invading me, with my multiple thousand ship navy there, would be both dumb and a strategy for losing. So, I would suggest we don't both taking the war there. :(:)

Excellent. Cazelia and Duneria are both in.

The signup will be closing soon. I may allow one more person on both sides, and maybe a partisan group, but no more.

Cazelia, would you be interested in RPing partisans as well?

Well, here is a rough map and some info in my Invader's Guide (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10327920&postcount=9).

However, I will repeat it quicker here. Here is the thing about invading me, peeps:
My nation is in the antarctic nation and it is contained to a very small, frigid, fortress-like (i.e. it is a five hundred meter plateau) island. Furthermore, because it is so cold and icy, everyone and everything exists in a massive underground city.

What this means: invading me, with my multiple thousand ship navy there, would be both dumb and a strategy for losing. So, I would suggest we don't both taking the war there. :(:)

Hate to bud in, but do you know how much of a godmod your nation is?

Thank you, DMG. I'll be creating a list of data on each side as it comes in.

Hate to bud in, but do you know how much of a godmod your nation is?

Yep, I do... now read the invader's guide and shush.

"Volunteers" from the Tyrandis Federal Air Service will be serving alongside their Steelian employers in this campaign.

Excellent. Cazelia and Duneria are both in.

The signup will be closing soon. I may allow one more person on both sides, and maybe a partisan group, but no more.

Cazelia, would you be interested in RPing partisans as well?

patisans sound good

The Invader's guide is a godmode.

Aye, your name is a godmode.


At the very least it would just be strategically dumb to attack me because I am so far from most people's forces.

My names a godmode :(

Yep, I do... now read the invader's guide and shush.

I fear all militiary equipment that DMG makes, so I'd have to stay away from it and all of the 07 nations that use it.

I fear all militiary equipment that DMG makes, so I'd have to stay away from it and all of the 07 nations that use it.

Yay! Let's intentionally flame-bait with sarcasm in a thread you're not even apart of.

Yep, I do... now read the invader's guide and shush.

That's why we'll be trying to control the seas. We'll starve you out. ;)

And DMG, don't forget how vulnerable you are to a blockade...if you are deprived of any supplies, you'll fall apart quickly. I'll accept the conditions you set out for your forces even if they are very challenging.

That's why we'll be trying to control the seas. We'll starve you out. ;)

And DMG, don't forget how vulnerable you are to a blockade...if you are deprived of any supplies, you'll fall apart quickly.

Precisely what my Invader's Guide says...

That's why we'll be trying to control the seas. We'll starve you out. ;)

And DMG, don't forget how vulnerable you are to a blockade...if you are deprived of any supplies, you'll fall apart quickly. I'll accept the conditions you set out for your forces even if they are very challenging.

:eek: watch out for 5055 Vessels defending his island!

Precisely what my Invader's Guide says...

Yup. It will be interesting. However, you are still a long way's away from combat zones (assuming you are in the arctic regions), so you'll have time to prepare.

Yup. It will be interesting. However, you are still a long way's away from combat zones (assuming you are in the arctic regions), so you'll have time to prepare.

Yep (a little off the antarctic landmass). Time indeed, though sending a large enough fleet that far would seem dangerous (just a thought).

:eek: watch out for 5055 Vessels defending his island!

I've got several thousand ships myself...all of us together would be able to keep a force that big in line.

Yep (a little off the antarctic landmass). Time indeed, though sending a large enough fleet that far would seem dangerous (just a thought).

You're the Japan of the ViZonian side, relatively speaking...big on navy, limited on natural resources and shielded by the ocean.

You're the Japan of the ViZonian side, relatively speaking...big on navy, limited on natural resources and shielded by the ocean.

Woohoo! The Japanese empire shall triumph as always... right... right?

You're the Japan of the ViZonian side, relatively speaking...big on navy, limited on natural resources and shielded by the ocean.

And very very densly populated...

4.04 billion on such a small piece of land? ;)

Okay, three big announcements:

1. Signups are now closed. This is now just an open discussion/comment thread

2. A closed discussion thread will be posted tomorrow

3. Look for my prewar IC threads starting tomorrow. These are for character and national development prior to the start of war.

4. If you signed up earlier and are not on the list, tell me so that I don't miss you.

And very very densly populated...

4.04 billion on such a small piece of land? ;)

Hey, it's NS magic...Vetalia has 5 billion people in a country that is no bigger than Russia or the US...

Even so, dense populations are vulnerable to WMD attacks. Remember that well. ;)

And very very densly populated...

4.04 billion on such a small piece of land? ;)

4.5 billion, but yes. Pretty much everyone lives in ceiling-scrapers (like sky scrapers, but they touch the ceiling instead). I would probably claim to have the densest city and country in the world.

:p leaves u exposed to weapons of mass destruction...

By the way, can u get on MSN? ;)

OOC:Can i be Vetalia´s allie but only to support him with logistics?Like supplying him with armament?Of course if needed i could use my units to fight in the war also

If so Vetalia,please tell me what do you plan on using during the war so that i can add it to my factory inventory

Thank you

probably not a good idea since my arms company is bankrolling yours :cool:


I need to detail-ize my map, and I like the idea of writing up an 'invasion guide' I'll probably write it into my NSWiki in a few days when I can finally get around to giving it the re-write it needs.
( I get to steal the invasion guide idea because I've been sitting on the 'bubbles' idea forever:p, glad I'm not the only one who's watched to much "Discovery Channel: Mysteries of the Bermuda Triangle")

Current map and some badly out of date and un-detailed info can be found on my NSWiki which is linked in my sig, I'll probably be able to spend some time re-writing the info on Monday, but I won't be able to add details to the map for at least a week.

Hey, it's NS magic...Vetalia has 5 billion people in a country that is no bigger than Russia or the US...

Even so, dense populations are vulnerable to WMD attacks. Remember that well. ;)

The USA has a lot of emply space, as does Russia. So does china. :P

The USA has a lot of emply space, as does Russia. So does china. :P

True. Plus, we're mostly tropical, so there is a good deal more arable land available for food. It also makes us less vulnerable to a blockade, relatively speaking.

This looks promising. Anyway I could get in? (Preferably on ViZ's side, but if ya' need another with Vetalia I'd do that too).

I thought I better post in since I'm in Cazelia...

ICCD is neutral at this point but may be forced into the war on either side.

If this is ok great --- I'll try to keep up with it...

Okay, here's the rough timetable for the next few days:

Tomorrow: I'll post the closed preliminary discussion thread for members.
Monday: IC post announcing buildup of forces in Vetalian Cazelia
Tuesday: Invasion of Cazelia
Wednesday: Vetalian alliance officially formed (working name, the "Axis" ;))
Thursday: Invasion of ViZion, war begins
Friday: Let the games begin

Ideally, I'll need a map of ViZion no later than Wednesday, but everyone else should try to have at least something by Friday. It can be fleshed out as needed.

This looks promising. Anyway I could get in? (Preferably on ViZ's side, but if ya' need another with Vetalia I'd do that too).

NOOOOO! We need all your available forces to engage the CA!

:D

Unfortunately, Amazon, the signups are now closed. However, you're first on the list if someone is inactive and we decide to drop them, or if calculations reveal one side is imbalanced against the other.

Keep an eye on your TGs and the OOC threads to see if there are any changes.

Is it possible for me to side with ViZion's forces at some stage if there is a nation that drops out?

Thanks,
Drvarska

This is gonna be fun... :D

To be purely honest in all respects, DMG, as I'm sure you know, you have one hell of a defensible island. But then again, mine is structured to at least make invading very hard; I'm sure EVERYONE has something like that. DMG has just run with it a little. So let's accept that it's a giant tabletop icicle fortress, and to anyone who wants to invade it: do so if you want. It's an interesting challenge.

I have issues with a few other things though, DMG. Like your armament. To start with, each armored division has FIVE HUNDRED ubertanks, with dual 300mm guns, each of which is almost 10 meters tall, for one. This is a little excessive, don't you think? Incidentally, how does the Archangel Stealth System 'negate' radar signals? Then there is your carrier force.

Firstly, you seem to have 1100 of them; this is a vast number. I would consider above 50 a very large deployment. Secondly, the Pulse-class's HES system is...is it even PMT? It is ridiculously advanced for MT. And the Mist Refraction System will generate a LOT of power on the exterior of the ship. Easy to sense. Then there's the EMP DAD; doesn't EMP travel at the speed of light, or close to? Too fast to detect and then react to. Even allowing for that, when you activate these tiny magnets (which are somehow also absorbing sonar and are broken by light-refracting generators) they are somehow using power from generators that are shut off by DAD. It doesn't make sense. Turning to your Empire-class, it's absolutely tiny for a 5,000-man, 180-craft (plus landing craft!) carrier.

Next, Triad armor. You claim that 400mm of it are protecting this ship against 'anything imaginable'. Well, your healing layer wouldn't work; when things harden they reduce their volume, not increase (well, except water). Then there's this nano-mesh...aside from whether it will actually trump bullets, it would be expensive as hell. By the way, on your Lord battleship; just saying the whole ship is covered in the same thickness doesn't make sense. Ask one of the Draftroom fellows about it, they'll be happy to explain it to you. On a related note, the SONAR on the Lord-class is ridiculous; the only material that would absorb sound like you're describing is perforated with tiny holes. Not a good idea when building a ship. Plus, absorbers work by converting sound into heat, just as much of a giveaway.

Finally...thirty-nine million active soldiers? I'm not saying you can't do it, seeing as GE RPs a much bigger force and gets away with it with a good economy. Still, this is a tremendous cost. When you consider your ubertanks, your ridiculously advanced systems that you implement on pretty much everything, your swarms of carriers (and thus planes too), etc etc, there comes a point when I doubt you can pay for it anymore.

Dude, I don't wanna be rude, cause I respect you as a player, but this is a bit much. I may invade you or I may not, but either way there are some gaping holes in your military.

I have the agree with warmaster with a few points there, and Carriers are almost impossiable to become slealth, same for tanks...

Okay, here's the rough timetable for the next few days:

Tomorrow: I'll post the closed preliminary discussion thread for members.
Monday: IC post announcing buildup of forces in Vetalian Cazelia
Tuesday: Invasion of Cazelia
Wednesday: Vetalian alliance officially formed (working name, the "Axis" ;))
Thursday: Invasion of ViZion, war begins
Friday: Let the games begin

Ideally, I'll need a map of ViZion no later than Wednesday, but everyone else should try to have at least something by Friday. It can be fleshed out as needed.

:eek: Wow, you're pretty organized, do you think you can follow it through?

Well, being a long term ViZion ally, sign me up for ViZion's side.

No detailed maps yet, but basic geographical information is in the link in my signature.

Just some comments on warmaster et al's comments:

500 tanks ain't all that many when you talk 1-10 million that is only say 5 Billion / division - depending on the price - I'm not sure how many divisions he has but even at 100 armoured divisions that is 1/2 trillion or with defence budgets going upward of 50 Trillion now --- even assuming upkeep of the units would approach that number annually it is substantial but still doable - especially if you take into account a phased buildup.

300 MM guns are pretty darn big but really only about twice the size of main arms - that would be a huge kick and hugely expensive - making a 300mm cannon ain't difficult - oddly I don't see why you would need such a big cannon... when even now 120mm cannons are being picked over 160mm cannons as they are both basically equally effective. To me the 300mm sounds more like heavy artillery on wheels. Two cannons ain't imposible - since they are so big I could only geuss they could handle a double punch --- but they won't be crossing many bridges or bad terrain - and transporting them would require a VERY big transport - so they have their fallbacks.


There are plenty of radar absorbant materials you just suck up the electromagentic waves and reemit them or defract them it ain't rocket science. If you can hook a module onto a plane -its probably as possible to do it on a tank. There are ways around this but it usually requires multiple radar arrays - including air ground sequencing to failsafe the signals, by using advanced frequency modulating radar. celldar may also be effective if in partnership with satalites.



Pulse-class's HES system - not totally familiar by memory with those stats.. there are High energy lazers that have been tested as well as thel systems not sure exactly what it is


Mist Refraction System is not complex - of course it would be detectable by some systems - but not visual... but infrared may notice something weird or accoustic monitors (as mist doesn't have the same density as water(ocean).. but how many ships are equiped with high grade sufrace accoustic systems?


Energy generally does travel at the speed of liight cause it is light (EM is a type of light - photons are a type of electron - sort of - a little more complex than that .. but essentially energy is light - but it can be other things too - the frequency of the light has an energy level or oscilation and "binding" it causes an energy oscilation in phase with the space around it which causes transferance of the field - just like radio waves travel fast - there is a minor latency but it is mostly neglible within the field of effect although you can direct energy - as matter absorbs and resists (often0 energy due to latency caused by the oscilation of the matter lattice (also a type of energy but moving at a relatively slower pace - and very dense. Likewise energy collision can act as a repulsive force CEMP or an aborbing material - energy sink)


Nano stuff is becoming much more common - as for a large scale design ---- true now there may not be all too many places - but it is MORE economic then some other processes. It is just the tooling isn't up to speed yet - once it is costs for nano materials will be less expensive and more versatile then non nanos.

as for the 40cm which is about half a meter or two feet (1.31... or something)- that is pretty thick for any hardened materials --- but I am sorta in doubt it would stop - 'anything' the materials got to have a heat capacity. I'm sure a tactical nuke or plasma torch would cut through the thing with enough time. Or even heat lances... OR antimatter... or a DEW unless it is laser reflective too...? Or how about freezing it first with sub zero then dropping a rod of god on it?

The armor regrowth might work to a certain extent but it would need the right materials to - heal - and if you deprive the surrounding area from the materials it needs it would be a no go.


As far as expense is concerned resources are "mostly the only concern"


the only material that would absorb sound like you're describing is perforated with tiny holes. This isn't true - you can also use noise cancling latices - and tiny holes don't necisarily allow water into them if their grain is a smaller size than the water molecule.




40 million soilders for any country over 400 Million should be fine for most countries as it works out to the dreaded war time 10%. for a nationstate with 4 billion that works out to a fair game 400 Million... at 2.5% that is 50 million.. but hell if I was on an icicle I'd join the navy for comfort. - or be on the next plane I got ,,, and if they are all military hell why not?


As for paying for stuff the bottom line is -- you need food shelter and water.. everything else is extra -

THe wrong thing to do but using myself as an example ICCD's almost always had a military budget upwards of 30% GDP which works out now upwards of $40 Trillion Of course it is a socialist state - which I think in socialist states the cost of living goes down a lot - because - luxury items arn't bought as often. And if you have the population in a planned economy then people are kept busy and don't have as much time to develope new needs. ICCD has a hugely militarized society in large part because the easiest way to get an education or a stable source of income is to work for the government - and government employment gives first preference to former military - and post secondary education is free for the military - and ICCD is a dangerous place to live - and if you don't have military training life is harder. Plus there is large peer pressure and the high school system integrates cadet training into the school program. It's not like north america or europe or maybe anywhere else. It is a totally different thing. But if it were a hunk of ice what else are people going to do with their time - lay on the beach with the penguins?



As for stealth systems thermal systems etc.. they all already exist.. I don't see where the issue is ? the stuff ain't perfect and it ain't imposible to out play. 1000 tanks is smaller than the US's tank force and the US has a military budget remarkably less than us countries with 40 Trillion defence spending.

I will sign up on the Vizion side

Let's see...

If you have a problem with my land-mass, I would be happy to choose a puppet to RP instead.

There is no use in debating how many tanks or ships I have. If I have shown I can man them, afford them, and upkeep them, the only debate is practicality. Seeing as I have shown that, let's move on.

On most ships, as I have written on the front of my storefront, I don't RP some of the systems such as the HES. The Empire's 2000 man compliment is extremely short time only, so it's really a 3000 man crew.

Armor; I am trying to sell things, like an advertisement - it doesn't actually mean if a nuke hit it, the armor would stop it. Expense, who cares. I don't mean to say that every spot of the ship is the same thickness, but rather that the entire ship is encased, and this is the biggest thickness.

39 million active soldiers is a lot for NS? That is <1% of my population. Seeing as my nation's main industry is creating and maintaining war machines, I don't think that <1% is something to gripe about. And again, price is itself is hardly worth mentioning... I do have a defense budget of some 42 trillion.


Anyhow, as stated, I am more than willing to forgo all of these debate and use one of my puppets instead. In fact, I am just going to do that.

I'd like to join in. If possible, on ViZion's side.

Me = DMG

This is the country I am now using for this.

Let's see...

If you have a problem with my land-mass, I would be happy to choose a puppet to RP instead.

There is no use in debating how many tanks or ships I have. If I have shown I can man them, afford them, and upkeep them, the only debate is practicality. Seeing as I have shown that, let's move on.

On most ships, as I have written on the front of my storefront, I don't RP some of the systems such as the HES. The Empire's 2000 man compliment is extremely short time only, so it's really a 3000 man crew.

Armor; I am trying to sell things, like an advertisement - it doesn't actually mean if a nuke hit it, the armor would stop it. Expense, who cares. I don't mean to say that every spot of the ship is the same thickness, but rather that the entire ship is encased, and this is the biggest thickness.

39 million active soldiers is a lot for NS? That is <1% of my population. Seeing as my nation's main industry is creating and maintaining war machines, I don't think that <1% is something to gripe about. And again, price is itself is hardly worth mentioning... I do have a defense budget of some 42 trillion.


Anyhow, as stated, I am more than willing to forgo all of these debate and use one of my puppets instead. In fact, I am just going to do that.

Actually, dude, I don't mind your landmass. It's a bit tweaked in your favor, but I think everybody has done something like that. It would make for an interesting challenge. But if you want to use puppets, go ahead.

"Volunteers" from the Tyrandis Federal Air Service will be serving alongside their Steelian employers in this campaign.
Sounds fine.

Ideally, I'll need a map of ViZion no later than Wednesday, but everyone else should try to have at least something by Friday. It can be fleshed out as needed.
I threw together a couple of maps—one of my nation, one of its relative position—but don't have any idea where or how I can host them. Suggestions?

S&F: Use imageshack or make a photobucket account [both free but photobucket you can log into it again while imageshack is a one time thing[IE: if you lose the link, you'll have to reupload]

The Indonesian States will side with ViZion if we are still able to.
OOC: I dont know how to make a map
I guess to see my country you should go to my regional forum map by pressing the link below:http://www.invisionplus.net/forums/index.php?mforum=indochinaworld&showtopic=19

http://www.freewebs.com/vizionpics/mapafrica.JPG
http://www.freewebs.com/vizionpics/antarctica2.JPG

Angola, Tanzania, and Zambia in Africa are my claims (don't mind Tunisia, I don't have that anymore and haven't worked on a new map in about 2-2 1/2 yrs) and parts of Antartica.

Excellent, guys. I'm going to be starting the closed thread for members soon, so anybody who has a map repost it and I'll keep them all together.

I have a map of my mainland, although I don't foresee any action taking place there...it's not as well-fortified as DMG's, but it's up there.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u308/TataliaLW/Kregaia.png

There you go.

Well well now...ViZion sent me the link to this a while ago (I completely forgot). I'm curious to give my military a try out and this seems to have the controls inplace to stop the dogpiling that marred the last ViZionian war that I got involved in.

The only thing I would say is that I'm working quite a bit at the moment so I can't guarantee a post a day...however if Im allowed in I'll try my damndest. Also the only map I possess of my country is on the regional map, I hope that will be fine? I'll search for a link.