NationStates Jolt Archive

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=534541

OK, Undershi, would you please post your whole ORBAT here, so that I actually know what I'm fighting this time? Also, the whole premise of you getting Gens was so that the temas would be close. If you grab BC, thats not close.

My shippies:

88 × Nowotny-class SSN
36 × Chamberlain-class SSGN
14 × Union-class CVBN
8 × Hornby-class CVLN
4 × Kingdom-class BBAN
12 × King Henry V-class BBGN
12 × Consort-class CBGN
32 × Regent-class CAGN
44 × Alderdom-class CLGN
176 × Síanach-class DDGN
236 × Bullfinch-class FFH
16 × Crocodile-class LCS
2 × Lord-class LHD
2 × Ungforth-class LPD
2 × Valley-class LSD
2 × Cernunnos-class BCN
10 × Siren-class AGI
4 × Sea Lion-class PGC
4 × Freki-class PG
4 × Geri-class PG
21 × Lem-class AFSN
45 × Smith-class AOE
24 × Guinness-class AOEN
10 × Aylesburgh-class AS
10 × Virago-class ASN
2 × Hobbes-class AH
10 × Gabin-class AKR
14 × General Marsden-class AP
75 x Mogami Class Cruiser

Quick thing: BC isn't actually coming in to help me - I'm going it alone, with an understanding that if things get too ugly I'll get an ally in on it.

That said, here's my OBAT:

Capital Ships:

- 74 x Philosopher Class Aircraft Carriers

150 cruisers, of which:

- 85 Conqueror class CA
- 65 Hero class CA

- 240 Anti-Aircraft frigates (Falconeer class)

Escort Ships:

770 in all, of which:

- 340 General class CL
- 400 Guardian class DD
- 30 Defender class DD

Additionally, several thousand troops ships and supply ships are also present, although most of them are hanging back, waiting for the fleet to deal with its opposition before they are put at risk.

Submarines:

- 36 squadrons of Attack Submarines (three to a squadron)
- 14 Missile Submarines

That's all, although I'm going to note that a large number of land-based Golden Eagle heavy bombers will be deployed as well.

So far, the Undershi fleet has lost the following ships:

- 7 Philosopher class aircraft carriers

- 19 Conquerer class CA

- 14 Hero class CA

- 54 Falconeer class AA Frigates

- 28 Defender class DD (which was the older design - these are some of the only Defenders left that haven't been scrapped).

- 92 Guardian class DD

- 89 General class CL

Also:

- 1 Heavy Troop Transport (carrying a full mechanized division)

- 22 Light Troop Transports (carrying smaller units)

Alright, I'm sending the troops back home... but the fleet is still there. The plan is to destroy the Kampferian fleet and its allies, and then withdraw to defend the Undershi homeland.

Alright, I'm sending the troops back home... but the fleet is still there. The plan is to destroy the Kampferian fleet and its allies, and then withdraw to defend the Undershi homeland.

K. I'll have a post up tommorow. And remember that Wagdog is behind you and might prey on the undefended troop transports. :P

Also, he should be posting soon.

K. I'll have a post up tommorow. And remember that Wagdog is behind you and might prey on the undefended troop transports. :P

Also, he should be posting soon.

Okay, quick points:

- The troop transports are all lightly armed.
- The Undershi fleet withdrew quite a distance from your mainland over the course of the fighting-retreat thing - he's less far behind my fleet now.
- Some escorts are with the transports
- We're engaging the Wagdog fleet too.

Sorry if that sounded terse - it's late where I am, and I think I'm coming down with something unpleasant.

Okay, quick points:

- The troop transports are all lightly armed.
- The Undershi fleet withdrew quite a distance from your mainland over the course of the fighting-retreat thing - he's less far behind my fleet now.
- Some escorts are with the transports
- We're engaging the Wagdog fleet too.

Sorry if that sounded terse - it's late where I am, and I think I'm coming down with something unpleasant.
Copy all, and hope you feel better ASAP.:) Details of the attack on me, plus the broader one as well? Numbers go in this sort of thread anyway so your writing discipline in the main thread earns points from me, and if you'd rather you can just TG me any missile/fighter/&c incoming numbers or such needed. ORBAT for my forces involved will come here when I post again (early tomorrow most likely since I need sleep as well soon), as shall my IC assumption of control from Vetaka when I know the details needed to chart out my defenses and losses.

MAJOR EDIT: OK, why not just put the ORBAT in now, eh? All units employ the TOEs below, and some elements already deployed into Kampfers back during the Saan Galli campaign or even (in Calizorinstan's case) long before. Also, be sure to read the threads, since my examples of each unit are extensively modified even before entering my service; and also, local modifications for a campaign aren't out of the question, so pay attention to my posts above all. Rest assured, I give thought to what I have to cram in (and likewise take out) before saying I've shot off something from such-and-such ship.;)
In Kampfers: USSW 13th Fleet Group (Marine Air Wing, except carrier-based elements, and Marine Divisions already landed.), 5th Army Group on standby for deployment in (unlikely now) case required.
In Calizorinstan: USSW 6th Army Group

USSW Army Group Brief TO&E
Field Army
195,000 Personnel
3500 MBT-30 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12542882) MBTs, 1500 T-17B (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12302195) Scout Tankettes, 1000 UT-7B (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12287051) CEVs
7250 BKCh-1 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12229296)
APCs, 1500 BKCh-T (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12331728) CFVs
750 BKCh-SU (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12443733) Assault Guns, 150 D-30 Towed Guns
720 2S7A (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12380738) SP Guns, 450 BM-30 Smerch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K58_Smerch) MLRS, 450 RK-55/555 SS-C-4 Slingshot (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS-15) GLCMs, 450 SS-23 Spider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-23_Spider) SRBMs
2250 S-400 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400)
SAMs, 750 TS-M1 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12237807) SPAA
12000 Ural 4320 (http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/dozorb.php?menu=m1.php]DOZOR-B[/URL] Light, 3000 DOZOR-B Light, 3750 DOZOR-B Light, 750 [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ural_4320) Medium and 150 MAZ-543 (http://warfare.ru/?lang=&linkid=2298&catid=247) Heavy Trucks
Total: ~241,000 Personnel with Assets Indicated.

Sorry to double, but here's the detailed stuff for my latest post. Since naval fire details were a bit lacking for the sake of literary elegance, I figured I should just abstract large chunks of the incoming Undershi ship fire and deal with the known bomber missile numbers first. I'm still taking losses even between posts, so for all intents and purposes by the time my next post is in I'll be bleeding well-enough for sure.

Attack details...
450 Rufous (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=530199) (ER version) launched from carriers (150), battleships (50), and cruisers (250); homing in against the larger Undershi escorts facing my fleet, such as AA Frigates and Cruisers, and flying either sea-skimming or top-attack profiles depending on how far in Undershi's fleet formation the desired target is.
5375 Fenix (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12765386) against the smaller escorts facing my direction from both ship and fighter launches; 4800 fighter-launched, 70 battleship-fired, 125 cruiser-fired, and 400 destroyer-fired if that helps.
150 Vodopad torpedo-dropping missiles against the Undershi submarine cordon, or its part facing me at any rate; shot from my own subs already in the area.

TF 6-13 Sub Wolfpacks OOB
10 Oscar II SSGN
50 Akula II SSN[/SIZE]

Losses
30 Danechka-II destoyers, all sunk.
5 Yekaterina cruisers sunk, 3 damaged.
100 FA-15E Cardinal two-seat fighters; most crews KIA, although ejectees will survive since they're within easy SAR range.

Definitely more to come as the Undershi ship and fighter fire hits more, trust me.:headbang: For now, I'm working off what I know and just trying to ratchet up the drama here.:D

Wagdog, got that IRC now? get on the UFAN channel I TGed you about.

Can I come just to chat? :)

Wagdog, got that IRC now? get on the UFAN channel I TGed you about.
@ Kampf: Still installing it, but yeah I've downloaded the ZIP file. Let me get offline a while so I can do the install without pwning anything (my comp's already eaten one Word NS-notepad of mine, and gave me palpitations about my second one yesterday after it crashed a bit...:rolleyes:), 'K?
@TPF: Fine by me.:)

@ Kampf: Still installing it, but yeah I've downloaded the ZIP file. Let me get offline a while so I can do the install without pwning anything (my comp's already eaten one Word NS-notepad of mine, and gave me palpitations about my second one yesterday after it crashed a bit...:rolleyes:), 'K?
@TPF: Fine by me.:)

Aight, see ya soon.

Just a quick point. Vetaka was posting about coming within 750 meters of my fleet, well, the Undershi like to maintain range, and have been doing that - they've been steadily falling back into deeper waters to avoid coming within iron gun range of the enemy. 750 meters is nothing in terms of modern naval warfare - I don't think the Undershi fleet would allow the enemy to get in that close.

Plus, having his fleet take only 20 losses in getting there seems a little unrealistic.

I don't want to be a jerk or anything, and I hope I don't sound pissy, but I'd have to say Vetaka seems almost to be either on the verge of godmodding or actually doing it.

Do you agree?

Shit sorry that should actually be 60 Ships either way im at Full Speed and going as fast as I can go to Ram your ships the Vetakans value Loyalty to an Ally above everything, You would have to Physically stop them with everything you could.

Shit sorry that should actually be 60 Ships either way im at Full Speed and going as fast as I can go to Ram your ships the Vetakans value Loyalty to an Ally above everything, You would have to Physically stop them with everything you could.

Alright... well, we'll be trying to stop them, that's for sure...

Erm, exactly how far out do you think a naval battle starts, anyways? It'd be over one way or the other before your fleet reached even 50km unless Undershi has a complete lack of antiship missiles. o_O;

Assuming your fleets can maintain an average speed of 35 knots or so, it's going to take hours and hours to close the range.

Question:

Undershi has accepted the post has he not?

Answer:

"Oh my god so he has"

Solution:

"Just RP"

Axis Nova:

Ive lost 60 Ships so yes Undershi does have a shit load of missiles that have sunk my fleet as its been going on its Sail of Death. Ive been at Full Speed for a good few posts now furthermore this thread has been developing over the timescale you have defined. Considering the Undershi Fleet has managed to withdraw to deeper waters has it not? In my book a withdrawal of a Fleet of the Undershi Size that has managed to withdraw to deeper waters and remain in formation would take a while perhaps one might say it would take a few hours perhaps?

Obvious godmodding. I would expect that Undershi carrier based fleet would start running away as fast as possible before Vetakans reach to 100 km to avoid getting into battleship range(Vetaka has lots of these). And there is no reason why Undershi fleet should be any slower. 750 meters is of course totally ridiculous. Its up to Undershi if he accepts it or not, but if I were him I wouldn't because his carrier based fleet will be massacred by Vetakan battleships.

I expect to lose the entire Vetakan Fleet. I am ramming the Undershi Fleet.

OOC: V, TG. Honestly, I'm not so sure how tactically necessary a ramming is right now for V or anyone else; for my part in this little argument anyway. All of us still have decent numbers AFAIK, and Kampfers/Vetaka/myself have a major battleship advantage which we're close to bringing to bear (if not already in range according to RP 'fluid-speed' constraints...;)). Hence, why not just bring such advantages to bear? No need for suicide yet IMO...:p

Hey Undershi, just how heavy are your CA's anyway? How I RP damage to my ships in the coming gunnery brawl will depend on that whatever V and Kampf do, since crypto-battlecruisers or "large cruisers" (e.g. the RL USS Alaska) like what I use are obviously going to do more damage even to a heavy BB than regular CAs with eight-inchers or so would. Not enough for direct penetration and 'hard kills' except at ranges what would be ram-worthy anyway, unless they were battlecruisers proper, but enough to wreck on sensors and lighter gun/missile systems and increase port time for repairs plus kill more sailors of mine; 'soft kill' if done to enough of a degree.

OOC: V, TG. Honestly, I'm not so sure how tactically necessary a ramming is right now for V or anyone else; for my part in this little argument anyway. All of us still have decent numbers AFAIK, and Kampfers/Vetaka/myself have a major battleship advantage which we're close to bringing to bear (if not already in range according to RP 'fluid-speed' constraints...;)). Hence, why not just bring such advantages to bear? No need for suicide yet IMO...:p

Hey Undershi, just how heavy are your CA's anyway? How I RP damage to my ships in the coming gunnery brawl will depend on that whatever V and Kampf do, since crypto-battlecruisers or "large cruisers" (e.g. the RL USS Alaska) like what I use are obviously going to do more damage even to a heavy BB than regular CAs with eight-inchers or so would. Not enough for direct penetration and 'hard kills' except at ranges what would be ram-worthy anyway, unless they were battlecruisers proper, but enough to wreck on sensors and lighter gun/missile systems and increase port time for repairs plus kill more sailors of mine; 'soft kill' if done to enough of a degree.

Well, my CAs have one 88mm gun and one 45mm gun. Other than that, they've got a hell of a lot of missile launching capabilities and some CIWS units. The Undershi fleet relies on the fact that a lack of guns means that their ships are faster than enemy ships, and that their missile supperiority allows them to rule at long ranges. During this entire fight, they've been withdrawing, trying to keep the range open so that the enemy can't get within iron guns range.

Because if they do... well, Undershi ships have practically no armour, and very few useful guns. Each destroyer only has a single 45mm gun, each cruiser only has two guns... and we've got no battleships. What we have got is a fast fleet that works well at range and when able to manuver.

All of which means that once you do get into artillery range, things are going to get ugly fast.

Olmedreca;12950777']Obvious godmodding. I would expect that Undershi carrier based fleet would start running away as fast as possible before Vetakans reach to 100 km to avoid getting into battleship range(Vetaka has lots of these). And there is no reason why Undershi fleet should be any slower. 750 meters is of course totally ridiculous. Its up to Undershi if he accepts it or not, but if I were him I wouldn't because his carrier based fleet will be massacred by Vetakan battleships.

Thanks for weighing in on this. As I posted before, the Undershi fleet relies on speed and manuverability over... well, pretty much everything else. We're like an RL modern fleet - heavy on missiles, low on artillery.