NationStates Jolt Archive

THE RP THREAD IS OPEN! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=532707)

SIGNUP THREAD for Ancient-times-based World War. This RP will start on Monday (Later if not enough nations have signed up yet)
FIRST COME, FIRST SERVE BASIS

PLEASE NOTE! THE TECHNOLOGY CUTOFF TO START AT COMES AT 500 AD!

Sparta-like nation - Kampfers
Greece-like nation - Lorkhan
Rome-like nation - Imperial isa
Egypt-like nation - 1st Peacekeepers
China-like nation - Seraya
Mongol-like nation - Nueve Italia
Maya-like nation - ViZion
Aztec-like nation - Aztec National League
Carthage-like nation - New Manth
Japan-like nation - Living Freedom Land
Persian-like nation - Maldorians
Inca-like nation - ShuHan
Viking-like nation - Wanderjar
Ottoman-like nation - Ok-La-Ho-Ma
Celt-like nation - Nitrodymium
Goth-like nation - Die Zweiten Reich
Hittite-like nation - The Mewokian Isles
Scythian-like nation - Carloginias
Phoenician-like nation - Honako
Assyrian-like nation - Aitrovia
Teuton-like nation - Waldenburg 2
Hun-like nation - Isamistan
Korean-like nation - Burlovia
Babylonia-like nation - North Calaveras
Byzantine-like nation - Emporer Pudu
Gaul-like nation - Auralinia
Isael-like nation - New Brittonia
Etruscan-like nation - Carloginias
Saracen-like nation - Corbournne

If there's another civilization you'd like to model your nation after (remember, 2K BC to 500 AD time period technology) then please state so.

*MAP USED IS STANDARD WORLD MAP*

You will start out in your homeland. Thus, the Rome-like nation will control much of Italy, the China-like nation will control most of China, and so forth. You will then grow from there. This is going to be a pretty long and very tricky (BUT FUN!) roleplay.

sign me up as a Rome-like nation

Thanks man. My leaving time got delayed a bit. Are we using a map?

can I have an Egypt like nation?
It won't be very much like egypt just

a desert nation
theocracy
based around river and ocean
large land area
chariot based millitary


not direct egypt but pretty much.

Heh, reminds me of the first Age of Empires ... man, I loved that game.

Anyway, can I take the Mongol-esque nation?

I would like to claim the Viking-esque nation if you don't mind....

Goth Like Nation please.

Heh, reminds me of the first Age of Empires ... man, I loved that game.

Anyway, can I take the Mongol-esque nation?
Yes, I know.. AoE=my favorite game of all time... did you play on Zone?

Updated!

OK, so on the map, do we get where our civilizations were in RL, or do we get to choose where we are?

How can you have a Greek-like nation and a Spartan-like nation when Sparta is a city within Greece. Greece was not a unified nation, rather it was divided into smaller city-states; such as Sparta, Athens, Thebes, etc.

As a great fan of the Three Kingdoms era (about 200 AD) and ancient China in general, I'd like to apply for the China-like nation to be Seraya!
This is an amazing idea, by the way!

PS: I assume "Greek-like" refers to Athens, basically, as it probably is what we today would consider the most "typical" polis (which, of course, is a blatant stereotype, but still.. )

How can you have a Greek-like nation and a Spartan-like nation when Sparta is a city within Greece. Greece was not a unified nation, rather it was divided into smaller city-states; such as Sparta, Athens, Thebes, etc.


Yes, but I believe he meant that in the sense that the states of Macedonia and Athens had very similar cultures whereas Sparta was much different. Lakedaemon (Sparta) was very different than the others. See?

can i have china please:)
from Biain bevans

can i have china please:)
from Biain bevans

Er.. I'm not meaning to sound rude, or childish or something, but I believe you missed my post two above ;)

Sign me up for a Carthage-like state.

Carthago non delenda est!

When first I saw this thread and it's concept, I wanted to lead a Roman-like force, with all the discipline, order, and general "Imperial-sounding"-ness of them.

However, someone else did too, and in fact that was the very first choice. So, to consolidate my losses and continue to lead an Imperial force, based in Roman tradition, I would like to request that I be allowed to play a Byzantine-like force, for while they are a different civilization, surely, they retain a great amount of Roman tradition.

If that is not possible, I will lead an Ottoman-like nation, complete with roving Tartar (-like...) auxiliaries.

Emperor Rovanos Kommenoros, of the (Byzantine) Empire...

-alternativly-

Sultan Abdühmud, of the (Ottoman) Empire...

When first I saw this thread and it's concept, I wanted to lead a Roman-like force, with all the discipline, order, and general "Imperial-sounding"-ness of them.

However, someone else did too, and in fact that was the very first choice. So, to consolidate my losses and continue to lead an Imperial force, based in Roman tradition, I would like to request that I be allowed to play a Byzantine-like force, for while they are a different civilization, surely, they retain a great amount of Roman tradition.

If that is not possible, I will lead an Ottoman-like nation, complete with roving Tartar (-like...) auxiliaries.

Emperor Rovanos Kommenoros, of the (Byzantine) Empire...

-alternativly-

Sultan Abdühmud, of the (Ottoman) Empire...
It'll be Ottoman-like, simply because of the fact that Byz was essentially Rome under a new name and due to basically the exact same land. I almost added the Byz before I stopped myself there. Unless others feel it's ok.

Yes, but I believe he meant that in the sense that the states of Macedonia and Athens had very similar cultures whereas Sparta was much different. Lakedaemon (Sparta) was very different than the others. See?
Exactly.

And updated!

you can't have Gaul-like nation for the fact at set time it was under Roman rule was it not or have i forgot a lot over the years

you can't have Gaul-like nation for the fact at set time it was under Roman rule was it not or have i forgot a lot over the years
Ahh, true. Good call. lol

Am I not allowed to join because I'm a n00b? If I'm allowed to join I would like an Assyrian like nation.
As long as you will be active, you're welcome to join. :)

Am I not allowed to join because I'm a n00b? If I'm allowed to join I would like an Assyrian like nation.

As long as you will be active, you're welcome to join. :)

Awesome, do we have to create a factbook, or religion or something? If you have already mentioned something about this I must have missed it.

map of roman empire at height of full power
http://wps.ablongman.com/wps/media/objects/262/268312/art/figures/KISH106.jpg

Awesome, do we have to create a factbook, or religion or something? If you have already mentioned something about this I must have missed it.
No, not for this RP. :) For your nation, you can though.

you can't have Gaul-like nation for the fact at set time it was under Roman rule was it not or have i forgot a lot over the years

Only for a small part of the time period. And the more northerly Germanic/Gaulic tribes were never under Roman rule at all.

Heck most places were under someone's rule at some point or another... I figured we aren't using the nations themselves, merely creating nations in the same style. I.E. I'm not actually playing Carthage, I'm playing a filthy rich empire of maritime traders.

No, not for this RP. :) For your nation, you can though.

Alright. For my Assyrian like nation, I'm going to keep the nation name I have already and just call it the Kingdom of Aitrovia instead of the Empire of Aitrovia.

Only for a small part of the time period. And the more northerly Germanic/Gaulic tribes were never under Roman rule at all.

Heck most places were under someone's rule at some point or another... I figured we aren't using the nations themselves, merely creating nations in the same style. I.E. I'm not actually playing Carthage, I'm playing a filthy rich empire of maritime traders.

but never really a nation under one governing body

I want a Teuton like nation plz.

May I be a Byzantine-like nation?

If not sign me up as a Celt-like nation

Only for a small part of the time period. And the more northerly Germanic/Gaulic tribes were never under Roman rule at all.

Heck most places were under someone's rule at some point or another... I figured we aren't using the nations themselves, merely creating nations in the same style. I.E. I'm not actually playing Carthage, I'm playing a filthy rich empire of maritime traders.
He has a good point. So, with that in mind, I'm going to allow a Gaul-like. And since I'm doing that, I'll allow Byz-like nation, too.

map of roman empire at height of full power
http://wps.ablongman.com/wps/media/objects/262/268312/art/figures/KISH106.jpg

This brings up an interesting question. If we get what our nations had at the peak of their power I would have one city in the middle of him. Do we just get to pick where we are then?

I was thinking about that. Basically, we'll be using a deformed version of the standard earth map (can anyone photoshop this?) that'll allow everyone to have peaks without worrying about exact locations.

Well, then my peak would be mixed with DZR, considering the Goths controlled france, north spain and italy at there peak...

Well, then my peak would be mixed with DZR, considering the Goths controlled france, north spain and italy at there peak...
Like I said, we wont be using a standard world map. It'll be similar, but deformed (and much larger) to allow for this. Either that, or we could cut down on everyone to half their peak.

The Assyrians had much of the Middle East and Egypt. That would interfere with Rome at its full extent.

I was thinking about that. Basically, we'll be using a deformed version of the standard earth map (can anyone photoshop this?) that'll allow everyone to have peaks without worrying about exact locations.

I can but not tip after church tomorrow. I'd say about 3 pm cst

Hell though I say we get new areas onthe rl map

I can but not tip after church tomorrow. I'd say about 3 pm cst
Sweet, thanks!

The Assyrians had much of the Middle East and Egypt. That would interfere with Rome at its full extent.
Please refer to what I was saying about the map. Thanks :)

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegalstrongs/map_carthaginian_empire_3rdc_bc.gif

Carthage at its height.

Please refer to what I was saying about the map. Thanks :)

My bad. Sorry. ;)

No prob :)

personally I think it would be easy to just claim new lands. The way you have it currently I only get a city as opposed to those who get half a continent. Like I could claim Bavaria and maybe another neighboring german province or two. This would tremendously even the odds and make the map easier

personally I think it would be easy to just claim new lands. The way you have it currently I only get a city as opposed to those who get half a continent. Like I could claim Bavaria and maybe another neighboring german province or two. This would tremendously even the odds and make the map easier

Sounds like a good idea, it would simplify things greatly.

Quick question, if I'm going to be a viking-esque nation, that doesn't imply that I necessarily need to adhere to all of their customs, i.e I can use Wanderjarian culture etc but with a Viking mentality, correct?

By this I mean the fact that Wanderjarians worship the Gods of Chaos (Yeah, from Warhammer). Now you're not going to see me summon any daemons lol, but we venerate these beings regardless. Is that cool?

Quick question, if I'm going to be a viking-esque nation, that doesn't imply that I necessarily need to adhere to all of their customs, i.e I can use Wanderjarian culture etc but with a Viking mentality, correct?

By this I mean the fact that Wanderjarians worship the Gods of Chaos (Yeah, from Warhammer). Now you're not going to see me summon any daemons lol, but we venerate these beings regardless. Is that cool?
Well, being based on Vikings (or whatever else) I'd prefer you to try to adhere closely to their customs, but no, not entirely, as it's not Vikings actually.

Well, being based on Vikings (or whatever else) I'd prefer you to try to adhere closely to their customs, but no, not entirely, as it's not Vikings actually.

I meant more in the sense of the religion I meant, could I incorporate that into it? It'll basically just make my Vikings more bloodthirsty/prone to violence than even normal, thats all.

how about the land mess of each Nation at it's height of full power be place into one new Nation made of that land mess

personally I think it would be easy to just claim new lands. The way you have it currently I only get a city as opposed to those who get half a continent. Like I could claim Bavaria and maybe another neighboring german province or two. This would tremendously even the odds and make the map easier

bumping this to the new page for vision.

how about the land mess of each Nation at it's height of full power be place into one new Nation made of that land mess

Then I still only get one city...

I meant more in the sense of the religion I meant, could I incorporate that into it? It'll basically just make my Vikings more bloodthirsty/prone to violence than even normal, thats all.
That's fine.

personally I think it would be easy to just claim new lands. The way you have it currently I only get a city as opposed to those who get half a continent. Like I could claim Bavaria and maybe another neighboring german province or two. This would tremendously even the odds and make the map easier
Well, it would be rather odd having a Sparta/etc-like small nation be similar in size to that of a Rome/etc-like massive one. However, I guess for the smaller ones, they may have extra land (again, partly the benefit of not having an exact earth replica)

can i get an Israelite-esque nation, it isn't on there but can I have it anyways?

Then I still only get one city...

have Greece land mess then
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Greece_prefectures_map_dark.PNG

Well, it would be rather odd having a Sparta/etc-like small nation be similar in size to that of a Rome/etc-like massive one. However, I guess for the smaller ones, they may have extra land (again, partly the benefit of not having an exact earth replica)

I didn't mean a massive one. I think a medium sized nation would be best for all he nations. I only wanted 3 states in Germany.

I didn't mean a massive one. I think a medium sized nation would be best for all he nations. I only wanted 3 states in Germany.

and what but the Greeks Empire and Persian one

have Greece land mess then
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Greece_prefectures_map_dark.PNG

that would work too. Each nation could get their homeland instead of their max extent. Like Rome would get italy, Sparta greece, the Gauls France, etc.

Thanks to the VizKid for reserving my spot in this RP. I officially throw my hat into the ring!

that would work too. Each nation could get their homeland instead of their max extent. Like Rome would get italy, Sparta greece, the Gauls France, etc.

we still have to make them bigger for the time line we have as no way that many poeple would fit

I agree also that there should be no "height of power" borders.

If that was the case, I would control almost all of Asia, including China, the Middle East, and Europe as far as Hungary.

And that's a LOT of land ...

hey, can I be an israelite-esque nation, it is not on the list.

I agree also that there should be no "height of power" borders.

If that was the case, I would control almost all of Asia, including China, the Middle East, and Europe as far as Hungary.

And that's a LOT of land ...
Who is in agreement?

I agree also that there should be no "height of power" borders.

If that was the case, I would control almost all of Asia, including China, the Middle East, and Europe as far as Hungary.

And that's a LOT of land ...

no one said there should not be height of power we are talking where to put the land mess of it

hey, can I be an israelite-esque nation, it is not on the list.

er what

Who is in agreement?

look back and no one said a word of not having it just where to put it

I want the Greece-like nation, or an Athens like nation or something (since you've been talking about Sparta).

I agree that having the "height-of-power"-borders would be outright silly, since they somewhat conflict with each other. An approximation of the average border lines would be the best solution, I believe.
Take, for example, China's expansion between the Warring States
Here (http://www.adastra.at/images/imagesprogramm/skkarte.gif)
and the Three Kingdoms era Here (http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/china/images/threekingdomsmap.gif), and use the middle. In the case of china, most border regions were prone to barbarian invasions anyhow, so it is hard to draw an actual border. The same goes for expansionistic empires like Rome, where the military border would always be 100 miles ahead of the civic border.

Also, there are probably some minor tribes around who have no military significance whatsoever but own the lands not occupied in this way.

no one said there should not be height of power we are talking where to put the land mess of it

What is a "land mess"...

Each state should get their homeland, and then we expand outward, bump into eachother, fight, and form borders like that. Don't start off bordering anyone.

Like, the Ottomans would start off in eastern Turkey (as the Byzantines are in Constantinople...) with maybe two cities, and the Gauls in central France, the Romans in Rome, Spartans in Sparta, and so on.

That way the really big Empires like the Roman, Byzantine, Ottoman, Persian and Mongols don't start off with a head over someone like the Teutons.

No land mess-es.

Sounds good. So, for instance, I as Carthage would start with North Africa, Sicily, Sardinia & some small islands but not, for example, all of southern Spain.

How are we going to do intercontinental conflict if anyone chooses to be the Incas or whatever? Most (all?) ships of this ear couldn't take the open Atlantic.

Sounds good. So, for instance, I as Carthage would start with North Africa, Sicily, Sardinia & some small islands but not, for example, all of southern Spain.

How are we going to do intercontinental conflict if anyone chooses to be the Incas or whatever? Most (all?) ships of this ear couldn't take the open Atlantic.

Well there's still the option to cross the Atlantic via Iceland and Greenland or the Pacific from Siberia. Leif Erikson managed to get across at the northern Atlantic and although it would probably be hard to ship a whole army over there, it is technologically possible.

May I be Korea? I´m interested in this concept, because it is strange that there was no world war before 20th century. :gundge:

Yeah, I suppose Viking ships have at least a reasonable chance of crossing the Atlantic. Mediterranean style galleys not so much.

Still probably more worthwhile to focus on enemies closer to home.

May I be Korea? I´m interested in this concept, because it is strange that there was no world war before 20th century. :gundge:

Before the 20th Century, there was no good way to reliably move the large armies such a war would require. Also, the "global empires" such as those of France, Great Britain, Spain and the Netherlands didn't exist.

Regional powers dominated the scene, and so the wars were equally regional.

We're basically just playing... The 5th Century... And almost none of us will have globe-spanning empires or sea-worthy and reliable ways to move our armies around the globe (dumb Vikings...).

It is true, however, that this early ships could travel quite far, largely due to Chinese and Arabic (Mediterranean) advances, and so those civilizations will undoubtedly have an advantage. As time advanced, these technologies advanced and true ocean-going ships were developed by Dutch and English shipyards...

*long-winded*

Ok, I think I can shut up now...

Well, at least about that...

What I was thinking was, talking to New Manth, that we would start quite tiny. You may, for example, have the city of Carthage and some colonies on Sicily and Sardinia, but not all of the North African coast, as Carthage would come to dominate.

I'll start with the city of Trebizond on the Black Sea and maybe another inland city.

Basically, everyone should be limited to one or two cities or small territories. Expansion will create the large empires, not the ability to post quick enough to claim Rome... ('Cuz I definitely didn't want that or anything... lol)

that would be perfect. Every person would get their city or two. From there we could expand and meet each other. I for one would try to ally with athens for their navy.

er what

uhmmm. . . a nation like the Israelites. It's not very complicated.

Basically, everyone should be limited to one or two cities or small territories. Expansion will create the large empires, not the ability to post quick enough to claim Rome... ('Cuz I definitely didn't want that or anything... lol)

Sounds good.

May i have England please.

Well, assume the emissary the Chinese sent to Rome in the second century had not turned back prematurely because he was told an unrealistically large remaining distance to his destination, there might have been a larger - if only diplomatical - conflict between China and the other China (according to documents, the Chinese used the word "Zhong Guo [Middle Land]" for China as well as the Roman Empire, because there was no other proper term to describe a large empire at the time). However, if those two were diplomatically connected, maybe the diplomatic network for a major war would have existed.

May i have England please.

I am not entierly certain what the timeframe for this is, but if it falls where I think it does, England would be an island inhabited by angry Celtic tribesmen and maybe some Germanic and Scandanavian tribes in the extreme north and south...

Not England, so much as... Not England...

Well, assume the emissary the Chinese sent to Rome in the second century had not turned back prematurely because he was told an unrealistically large remaining distance to his destination, there might have been a larger - if only diplomatical - conflict between China and the other China (according to documents, the Chinese used the word "Zhong Guo [Middle Land]" for China as well as the Roman Empire, because there was no other proper term to describe a large empire at the time). However, if those two were diplomatically connected, maybe the diplomatic network for a major war would have existed.

Marching a functioning army from Italy to China would be not very practical in the second... or many following... centuries.

China did have a very far-reaching influence, and sent trading ships as far as south africa in future years, but right now, the world is pretty small. Trade and the such did exist across the continents, though, and civilizations such as the Huns and later the Mongols were spreading their cultures all over... wherever they felt like going.

So now that we solved the claims issue, when will this start?

Babylonia-like nation - Available
Byzantine-like nation - Emporer Pudu
Gaul-like nation - Available
Isael-like nation - New Brittonia

If there's another civilization you'd like to model your nation after (remember, 2K BC to 500 AD time period technology) then please state so.

*MAP USED WILL BE VERY SIMILAR TO STANDARD WORLD MAP*

Woah, cool... I thought I had to be Ottoman...

Woah, cool... I thought I had to be Ottoman...

page 2 where you got the ok

Greece like nation.
Which is great.
Because technicaly, I can have all the assets of a Sparta-like nation.
As Sparta is in Greece.

Greece like nation.
Which is great.
Because technicaly, I can have all the assets of a Sparta-like nation.
As Sparta is in Greece.

no, if you look back you will see that it does not include Sparta. Rather it only is say Athens and Corinth.

Now that the claim issue is taken care of, I'm gonna give it a day or so more to see if anyone else wants to claim any other nation.

So may I be Korea-like nation or not?

If you want more nations, allow people to occupy more than one, but under the understanding that they must RP them and separately from their other nation at that. I implimented that policy for my World War Three RP and its working quite nicely.


Just a thought.....

Can I be the persian-like nation.

I'm a bit worried about allowing a buncha 1-5 post nations join. I don't want half the nations to just stop RPing. So from now on, people need to have upwards of 100 posts or more to join.

Think we're fine? Or should we wait til we get a few more?

Think we're fine? Or should we wait til we get a few more?

I think we're good. I can get an ic post up when we start. Well, by noon in Texas.

EDIT: I would do it sooner but it's hard to type up a good long rp on my iPhone.

I'm a bit worried about allowing a buncha 1-5 post nations join. I don't want half the nations to just stop RPing. So from now on, people need to have upwards of 100 posts or more to join.

No need to worry about that. I might not have been active in the forum, but I've been around for a while. Same for some other low-post-nations.

EDIT: I would do it sooner but it's hard to type up a good long rp on my iPhone.

At least you got an iPhone.


XD

This is just too interesting to pass up, if I could slip in as the Teuton based nation that'd be great.

Think we're fine? Or should we wait til we get a few more?

I think we are fine...

I think we're good! Lets do it!

Yeah, Lets go! Also, heres a not to anyone. The finest trained soldiers in the world will quickly move throughout the Peloponnese before coming to the edge of their RL extent. As such, the Kampferian/Spartan Empire will be very nice to the first naval power who contacts them and is willing to fight the Naval powers of the time while they wage war on foot.

Yeah, Lets go! Also, heres a not to anyone. The finest trained soldiers in the world will quickly move throughout the Peloponnese before coming to the edge of their RL extent. As such, the Kampferian/Spartan Empire will be very nice to the first naval power who contacts them and is willing to fight the Naval powers of the time while they wage war on foot.



Better watch out for the Wanderjarian Norsemen though, we're fierce bastards ;)

I plan to go on a campaign of horror and terror across Europe and slaughter many a person in the name of Khorne the Blood God. :D

Better watch out for the Wanderjarian Norsemen though, we're fierce bastards ;)

I plan to go on a campaign of horror and terror across Europe and slaughter many a person in the name of Khorne the Blood God. :D

Bring it! :D

Also, I have closer issues than you first... And I will be taking a more spartan and roman attitude to my conquered terrtories. Enlist the men, Slaughter the women.

Bring it! :D

Also, I have closer issues than you first... And I will be taking a more spartan and roman attitude to my conquered terrtories. Enlist the men, Slaughter the women.

hehe, good luck with that ;)


But sooner or later you shall all have to deal with the black death of Chaos looming over the horizon....

hehe, good luck with that ;)


But sooner or later you shall all have to deal with the black death of Chaos looming over the horizon....

Unless we ally ;) (hint hint)

Also, I don't expect the men I enlist to be perfect soldiers. However, I won't be using them as hoplites either. They will complete the army that Sparta could have had. The Phalnx's main weakness was a lack of ability to turn. As such, These men will become archers and regular soldiers with swords, much like roman units. When you add the hoplites, you have a crazy ground force.

Unless we ally ;) (hint hint)

Also, I don't expect the men I enlist to be perfect soldiers. However, I won't be using them as hoplites either. They will complete the army that Sparta could have had. The Phalnx's main weakness was a lack of ability to turn. As such, These men will become archers and regular soldiers with swords, much like roman units. When you add the hoplites, you have a crazy ground force.

Indeed. Thats what I would have done.

china is a key think what a the ballista, the onager, and the scorpio with black powder

Truly. We all know you barbarians can't keep pace with Serayan cunning and strategy. We will see how you westerners do against that.

The only problem of China were their inner struggles - this is something we shall correct!

I will post the RP thread in about 24 hrs from now.

One final bump for signups before I start this RP in 12 hrs or so!

'Omnes Gallia est divisa en tres partes': Julius Caesar

I'll take Gaul.

I will take Ottoman like nation

The ottos are a man like nations, for me. *Ottomans*



EDIT: Didn't see the kid above's post. I'll take the Persian-like nation

Could I have the Japan like nation?

Do I assume correctly that a nation such as Babylonia would start with Iraq and with a few bits of other lands and with which would be Lebanon, Syria and Israel (basically not at the main power of their empires.) If so, would this not cause trouble as some Empires conflict with each other - what period of history is this?

Also, what lands would the Huns get? For now, I'd like to lay claim to Babylonia until my questions are asked - also, would this amount of land be ok for a starting point - see here (http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/01951/images/content/babylonia_map.jpg). It's no where near the most powerful reach of the Empire - see here (http://www.crystalinks.com/babylonmap.gif).

Do I assume correctly that a nation such as Babylonia would start with Iraq and with a few bits of other lands and with which would be Lebanon, Syria and Israel (basically not at the main power of their empires.) If so, would this not cause trouble as some Empires conflict with each other - what period of history is this?

Also, what lands would the Huns get? For now, I'd like to lay claim to Babylonia until my questions are asked - also, would this amount of land be ok for a starting point - see here (http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/01951/images/content/babylonia_map.jpg). It's no where near the most powerful reach of the Empire - see here (http://www.crystalinks.com/babylonmap.gif).

You get your home city, and maybe the surrounding countryside. You can quickly walk through the NPC areas (i assume) until you hit the borders of another nation.

Do I assume correctly that a nation such as Babylonia would start with Iraq and with a few bits of other lands and with which would be Lebanon, Syria and Israel (basically not at the main power of their empires.) If so, would this not cause trouble as some Empires conflict with each other - what period of history is this?

Also, what lands would the Huns get? For now, I'd like to lay claim to Babylonia until my questions are asked - also, would this amount of land be ok for a starting point - see here (http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/01951/images/content/babylonia_map.jpg). It's no where near the most powerful reach of the Empire - see here (http://www.crystalinks.com/babylonmap.gif).

Hey, i'm the israelites. What are you doing? That is my land.

Hey, i'm the israelites. What are you doing? That is my land.

This is the problem I'm having. The Pheonicans (sp?_ also had northern Israel, so I'm kinda confused as to what you start with. Do you literally just start with a city?

This is the problem I'm having. The Pheonicans (sp?_ also had northern Israel, so I'm kinda confused as to what you start with. Do you literally just start with a city?

They had lots of cities on the Mediterranean coast


and i dunno, we need a map for this thing

Yah. Then you expand, enlist, slaughter, conquer. It allows all the nations to be able to play without being on top of each other. It also allows people like me in Sparta to have a chance against the Romes of the world. Like you, Honako. As babalon, you could start of with the city of Babalon. Then you press outwards, grab new lands. Thats the way I understand it at least.

Well, then I'll take Phoenicia. It has a good coast so I might be able to control trade like they did whilst expanding further into countries like Syria and Iraq.

Here's a nice simple map:

http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/graphics/world.gif

ill take anything thats left if there is any! :mp5: :gundge: :sniper:
:headbang: :eek: :sniper:
:rolleyes: :mp5:
srry i was bored

I'm a bit worried about allowing a buncha 1-5 post nations join. I don't want half the nations to just stop RPing. So from now on, people need to have upwards of 100 posts or more to join.

May I bring this to everyone's attention?

Here's a nice simple map:

http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/graphics/world.gif

Using one of the Wiki maps might be better, as that looks a tad strange - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Blank_maps

Aww... I can't play unless I have 100 posts? That's newb discrimination! Whatever.

I chose that map because it was simple, but now that you mention it it does look strange.

One city + the surrounding country side to settle this.

Updated! Gonna start the thread tomorrow actually. Otherwise I'd start it and most people wont be on til tomorrow anyway.

Living Freedom Land, sorry. I'm just worried that most 1-5 post nations wont actually be active. If you promise to be, though, I'll add ya.

I will be Babylon.

One city + the surrounding country side to settle this.


And I'd like to state what should be obvious, but I'll say it anyway: We can't be basing our pop/armies on our NS nations. That would make a few of us unbeatable. Maybe we should set a maximum number of military available for use, perhaps growing very slightly as we conquer new lands (or, conversely, as we get our asses kicked, decreasing slightly).

I don't have exact stats, but back in those days, a large army was about 2,000 men. And maritime nations had ships, but not a heck of a lot.

Which brings up another question: what time in history are we talking about? I mean, a lot of the nations we're claiming didn't exist in the same time frame as others. For instance, Babylon was around long before Rome, and I think the Huns were doing their thing long after Phoenicia, etc, were conquered by Rome.

Maybe a good starting point would be a specific, if arbitrary, date, where everyone is equal in pop and armies. Work it out from there. Sort of like the game RISK: all equal in the beginning.

Snip

tech is what we using from them as we are using our NS nations as the rule say so

Who is in agreement?


I'm in total agreement. Number 1, what would be the point in being a small nation/territory that was 20 times smaller than the roman empire or the empire of the Huns. They'd get swallowed up in no time.

Number 2, this thread is essentially a "what if the greatest lands/empires/territories,etc, in all of history were on the world map at the same time" theme. ALL empires, etc, started out small. That's how this thread should run. As I stated in the other post, we have to start at a date in the remote past where all players/nations were in their formative stages. This doesn't mean that the thread has to drag on and on while the territories grew historically. Hell, maybe in THIS world, Sparta wound up being the size of the Roman Empire AND Byzantine Empire together. Maybe the Celts over in Britain were the ones who invaded Spain and crossed over the Strait of Gibralter to conquer northern Africa. It all depends on how we players post and our ability to manuver militarily.

We don't have to play this according to how history turned out. Remember, these territories are Roman-LIKE, Gaul-LIKE, Hun-LIKE, etc. Use the language, customs, religion and military style/designations, of course. As has been stated a few times already, if all of these territories were placed on the world map together, there'd be so much overlapping that it would render the whole thing unworkable.

Summary: ALL territories begin where they originally began on the map, regardless of the historical time frame. Even if there were SOME overlapping, it would be a lot easier to sort it out at the minimum-size level than at the Empire-level.

Updated! Gonna start the thread tomorrow actually. Otherwise I'd start it and most people wont be on til tomorrow anyway.

Living Freedom Land, sorry. I'm just worried that most 1-5 post nations wont actually be active. If you promise to be, though, I'll add ya.


I dunno....let' em play. If theyr'e really newbs, they won't last long. If theyr'e older nations masquerading as newbs, we'll find that out soon enough. If 3 days go by w/o a post, consider them conquered by their nearest neighbor.

Hell, maybe in THIS world, Sparta wound up being the size of the Roman Empire AND Byzantine Empire together.

You know that it will happen! lol

so whats the ruling on noobs like me eh?:confused:

so whats the ruling on noobs like me eh?:confused:


I guess that would be up to ViZ.......

You know that it will happen! lol


LOL, probably not...but the point is that if each of us starts out evenly, who knows what could happen.

Ok, I'd like to clear up a few things before I make the RP post (coming up in a few minutes)

For land/population/army:
Remember, you're starting with 1 city and the surrounding countryside. Thus, there's no 5 billion people under your control. And I will state everyone starts out with 1,000 people.

Technology:
You'd be using the technology your nation had at its PRIME. Yes, I do realize there's a time difference. That, however, will allow you to advance over time, rather it be on your own or with allies you forge before the big war begins (and, that, on its own, will be quite a while from now due to the fact of everyones size and location, so this is also a civ building RP as well, something I didn't count fully on when I first created this RP until you guys pointed out some of the problems w/ it than needed fixing... lol)

I dunno....let' em play. If theyr'e really newbs, they won't last long. If theyr'e older nations masquerading as newbs, we'll find that out soon enough. If 3 days go by w/o a post, consider them conquered by their nearest neighbor.
Fair enough. I'll add them.

cani be babylon Imported

Seraya, who would you like to be?

cani be babylon Imported
Ya, you're already up there for that. :)

i call Incans!! they are pretty hardcore and everyone loves that disney film about the emperor turning into a llama

Ok, I'd like to clear up a few things before I make the RP post (coming up in a few minutes)

For land/population/army:
Remember, you're starting with 1 city and the surrounding countryside. Thus, there's no 5 billion people under your control. And I will state everyone starts out with 1,000 people.

Technology:
You'd be using the technology your nation had at its PRIME. Yes, I do realize there's a time difference. That, however, will allow you to advance over time, rather it be on your own or with allies you forge before the big war begins (and, that, on its own, will be quite a while from now due to the fact of everyones size and location, so this is also a civ building RP as well, something I didn't count fully on when I first created this RP until you guys pointed out some of the problems w/ it than needed fixing... lol)



Good idea with the starting pop. Perhaps an increase of 25 people per RL day with 20% of any given pop being the military?

Good idea with the starting pop. Perhaps an increase of 25 people per RL day with 20% of any given pop being the military?

That works, but not for the Sparta-like civ. Every man was in active reserves up to 60, but I would say that 20% of pop being in military would be a good base. So it would work, unless I called men out of the reserves, which I plan on doing at the very beginning. You should also increase pop if you take over new lands.

The increase of population is a max of 20 people per day, however if you choose, you can do less. If you conquer land, I guess that would come with more people. Also, note that in war, you loose population.

As for the % in military, being smaller, I'd say we can say the norm is suggested at 15%, but can be more. However, you can do more or less if you want. Just remember, you have to financially be able to train/equip/feed these people.

The RP thread! (FINALLY!) (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=532707)

last time i checked babylon wasnt that powerful, unless we are making up armies.

last time i checked babylon wasnt that powerful, unless we are making up armies.
You're not RPing as Babylon its self, you're RPing as one like it. And as such, since this is also a civ building RP, Rome may become a peaceful little region that has no military while the Native American civs take over most of Europe. Who knows.

The increase of population is a max of 20 people per day, however if you choose, you can do less. If you conquer land, I guess that would come with more people. Also, note that in war, you loose population.

As for the % in military, being smaller, I'd say we can say the norm is suggested at 15%, but can be more. However, you can do more or less if you want. Just remember, you have to financially be able to train/equip/feed these people.

Well, yes, but you know spartan culture.

As for population increase, I will go with 18 a day, since Spartans would put their baby boys in wine to see if they would survive. I will take it that 10 boys are born and 10 girls are born, and that 2 of the boys would be too weak to survive. Also, until I reach Athens (if I fight them, and not ally), I don't expect to find much resistance for my Hoplites, although there will be some.

but i actally have a city known as babylon in NC so it still worked.

Is a thousand really enough to classify it as world war? And reading the IC thread, 150 isn't much of a gain especially to lead to a major empire. Although this hinges entirely on the matter of ground to people conquered. Is it in comparison to the amount of villages, 150 for every RL village or is there a different system? I would be quite happy starting as one village and building up but I need to know.

Secondly who Rp's the nameless tribes we will be conquering at first? Or how is it beginning?

May I have the Hun-like nation?

Is a thousand really enough to classify it as world war? And reading the IC thread, 150 isn't much of a gain especially to lead to a major empire. Although this hinges entirely on the matter of ground to people conquered. Is it in comparison to the amount of villages, 150 for every RL village or is there a different system? I would be quite happy starting as one village and building up but I need to know.

Secondly who Rp's the nameless tribes we will be conquering at first? Or how is it beginning?

Please note, this is in the early stages. This has transformed from just a WW to a civ building leading upto a world war RP.

And there's no real set amount of land between villages. The travel guideline I have added is so that people don't move across an entire country in 1 day and things like that, keeping it a bit more realistic. You may come across 5 native villages in 1 day, and other times it may be 3-4 days before you come across someone.

As for who will be RPing them, the way most RP's work when coming across a "native" country or people, is that that person invading RP's the whole war/battle unless someone else wants to. That's the way this is setup.

Hope that answers your questins!

Ok it did, I rather enjoy the honor system.

Anyway I can knab the Etruscan or Numidian Civilizations?

Good idea with the starting pop. Perhaps an increase of 25 people per RL day with 20% of any given pop being the military?

It really depends on size, military service etc. Generally in ancient warfare the bigger your military gets, the smaller a percentage of your population it has to be (paradoxical I know).

For instance Rome at its height marshaled about 300,000 soldiers out of a population of a hundred million or so. .3%. And they could never have come remotely close to fielding 20%. .3% alone got very hard to maintain.

On the other hand in Rome's early days when they had 50,000-100,000 people they could marshal a much larger proportion of the population, and in emergencies during the very early years of the city marshaled close to or all of the available military age population. And sometimes the old people too. Generally in times of siege or warfare close to the home front, and they were never standing armies - raised to deal with a single threat, then disbanded so that people could go back to farming.

So it depends.

Actually, at Rome's height it boasted a population of 55 million I think and it's army was something like 450,000.

Actually, at Rome's height it boasted a population of 55 million I think and it's army was something like 450,000.

Gibbon estimated 375,000 soldiers at the absolute peak under Hadrian (during most of the Empire it was less), and the population reached 90 million or so around AD 120. The numbers I gave are somewhat off the cuff math, but should be raesonable close to accurate.

Of course you'll encounter different estimates (related to whether or not you count slaves, the fact that dead soldiers were often left on the rolls so that he would keep getting sent pay (which would be divvied up by the guy's companions), etc), whether you count territories only loosely under Roman control...

In any case though the broad conclusion remains the same.

Positive it wasen't anywhere around 90mill. I could be wrong about the soldiers, but I don't think I'm wrong about the overall population.

Being a classics major I would hope I am not massively off in this sort of thing (where's that education going to? ;) ), but let me do a quick googling to be sure. Should only take a couple.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_empire

Take note of the AD 117 population estimate in the sidebar.

Now back to topic?

The world's population at the time was estimated at 280mill-300mill. No way Rome could of held nearly a 1/3 of it. I can go find several estimates that find the Roman Empire's population at 65,000,000 , 40 under Augustas, and 55,000,000 after regrowth from the plague. 55,000,000 being techincal height in land mass.

The world's population at the time was estimated at 280mill-300mill. No way Rome could of held nearly a 1/3 of it. I can go find several estimates that find the Roman Empire's population at 65,000,000 , 40 under Augustas, and 55,000,000 after regrowth from the plague. 55,000,000 being techincal height in land mass.

Estimates will vary like I said, I tend to believe the 80-90 million estimate for reasons I don't have time to go into. However, even if not its still tangential to the question of the military.

Anyway I can knab the Etruscan or Numidian Civilizations?
OOoooo, Etruscans... I can't believe I forgot about them. lol

Saracen-like, please.

Estimates will vary like I said, I tend to believe the 80-90 million estimate for reasons I don't have time to go into. However, even if not its still tangential to the question of the military.


Didn't mean to start an arguement.

Lol. I was scrambling to find out another nation on the Mediteranean.

Well since everyone is just expanding, I'll just join the party.

Bump, still need Scythia.

why the vikings but no Saxons...and no Seleucids...i could name others lol...also I dont know about tech levels but some of the factions like the ottomans and Byzantine just to name some would eventually have access to early firearm weapons..where as others like the romans wouldn't...

If there's another civilization you'd like to model your nation after then please state so.

I'm pretty sure someone could pick Saxon there if they wanted to. The gunpowder question is a good one though. Not sure about the Byzantines, but I know for sure the Ottomans used cannons to bash down the walls of Constantinople, and that could put everyone at a serious disadvantage if they were allowed to use it right off the bat. Hell, the Ottomans existed into the 20th century, so we could soon see machine gunners mowing down our cavalry...

can i sign up for an Mohecan type nation

Corbournne;12874897']I'm pretty sure someone could pick Saxon there if they wanted to. The gunpowder question is a good one though. Not sure about the Byzantines, but I know for sure the Ottomans used cannons to bash down the walls of Constantinople, and that could put everyone at a serious disadvantage if they were allowed to use it right off the bat. Hell, the Ottomans existed into the 20th century, so we could soon see machine gunners mowing down our cavalry...

the byzantines had very very limited gunpowder units...mostly mercs hired in from eastern nations...but a lot of the arab/eastern nations developed quite sophisticated hand guns and siege cannons...for their time

another thing to mention the Byzantine empire was in effect the Roman empire just the eastern half of it....which brings up another point some of the civilizations existed at completely different times than others...

and had more developed technologies..Ie the vikings or "Normans" could use crossbows which would slaughter Roman legionaries and pretty much all other ancient armies since a crossbow bolt could easily punch through a roman shield and the protective segment armor which was the best armor the romans ever got...

Just some things I figured I'd throw out there..

Well if we're using 2000BC through 500 AD tech then no we won't be having any firearms for quite a while. The earliest evidence of a firearm turns up in the 10th century, in China (Of course) and even then it way be something entirely different. The Romans were never apposed with anything resembling a firearm, and considering they marched through a good portion of the mid east not really many firearms available for a good couple hundred of years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm

I believe though that the Arabs were making sapping charges of it around this time, so it's not unknown but still the technology is away off.

well I was just saying..something you all need to work out...and my other point..some of the "nations" present existed at different time periods..going back to my example..the vikings would have access to a crossbow...the crossbow wasn't widely used during their time but they still had access to it...and a crossbow will pwn anything the Romanesque time period could throw at it...since it has superior penetration and range to anything except for a ballista or other artillery piece..a recurved bow may have superior range but definitely not superior armor penetration...

Note that the technology cutoff comes at 500 AD to start at. Also, as nations grow and meet, technology can be shared, and ALL nations can gain technology on their own as well.

well I was just saying..something you all need to work out...and my other point..some of the "nations" present existed at different time periods..going back to my example..the vikings would have access to a crossbow...the crossbow wasn't widely used during their time but they still had access to it...and a crossbow will pwn anything the Romanesque time period could throw at it...since it has superior penetration and range to anything except for a ballista or other artillery piece..a recurved bow may have superior range but definitely not superior armor penetration...

That's why you'd play a Viking-like nation...

Technology is apparently limited to a 500 A.D. cutoff, and so the Vikings have bows. Simple...


Also, I missed a few days, but I'm going to make a post tomorrow.

ummm the crossbow has been recorded around in 300-400bc used in China...and a ballista..which is basically a crossbow on steroids and crack were used by the greeks and romans....regardless it was around well before 500AD...just not widely used like in Europe like it was around 1500AD...and actually the Chinese had a repeating crossbow..before 500AD..although the repeating crossbow wouldn't have the stopping power of a regular single shot one..it didn't require any training to use and a few thousand idiot peasants would be able to wreak havoc on a disciplined elite force with a rate of fire of about 1 bolt per second...The Romans also had a repeating Ballista...

I hope the Chinese player knew they had such weaponry before I brought it up lol..so I had it backwards the vikings don't have crossbows but the Chinese do...