NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC:After thinking about this I decided to carry it out.
Objective:Complete control over the city.
Rules:
1)NO Godmoding
2)Only 1 entry(team) per country.
Details:
There will be teams of 5-20 men. The city consists of a corprate area in the north wich slowly fades to high rise buildings in the south-west. A 45 foot wall circles the city with 8 gates (N,S,W,E,NW,NE,SW,SE).
Prize:
The city so dont blow it up.

So...if my opponents dont specify that their soldiers are STD free I could say that all their officers have syphilis?

Yes

Mmmkay, get a map and I might join.

Also, What are the restrictions. Like, can I have a tank? A helo?

[OOC: So unless specifically mentioned, I can state that every soldier in every opponents group has chronic heart conditions, and can be killed simply by being scared? Excellent. Is this a fairly large city, or just a town?]

before I join i'd like to know weapon limitations, how we start and by that i mean

do we all start at a gate?

or can we like helicopter in to a roof top?

if its like that, then I'm not going to join. Then it would be like - all your soldiers die of Chicken pox or some shit.

I know. I was kidding. Perhaps we can get the dude to renounce that part, though. If he does, I'll gladly send a group of 20 crack riflemen in in order to have a chance at winning a city.

Before I can say whether or not I'll definitely join, I need a few questions answered.


Will it be strictly an infantry contest, or will vehicles be involved?
How large is this city?
Is this a coastal city?
Will this city be occupied by its inhabitants during the contest?
Does the city have an airport?
Will each nations entry start at a gate, or are other forms of insertion allowed?

All enemy soldiers are actually dead.

I win. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

How large is an 'entry'?**

Just set your best foot forward, use common courtesy when changing the actions of others (In other words, don't unless it is for continuity), and no 'cheating'.

**Oh, up to 20... [ponders]

I'll send 18 soldiers. (2 'pathfinders', 10 grunts, 2 pilots, 3 IFV crewmen)
Would you like their bio/description now or later?
Insertion: Airdrops

Before I can say whether or not I'll definitely join, I need a few questions answered.


Will it be strictly an infantry contest, or will vehicles be involved?
How large is this city?
Is this a coastal city?
Will this city be occupied by its inhabitants during the contest?
Does the city have an airport?
Will each nations entry start at a gate, or are other forms of insertion allowed?



I hope vehicles are allowed, unless the limit is 5 per entry
Hopefully decently sized (Map?)
Most likely not
Most likely yes, otherwise it isn't a city, it would be a ghost town
Maybe, but chances are it'll be held by the enemy that didn't need it
Most likely gates. My guess...

That woud work. Also, I think it would be best if the teams were knocked down to 5 people apiece, as it would be like a fire squad, and would allow for more character rping. Also, a map would be greatly beneficial for us tacticians.

That woud work. Also, I think it would be best if the teams were knocked down to 5 people apiece, as it would be like a fire squad, and would allow for more character rping. Also, a map would be greatly beneficial for us tacticians.
I like the idea of narrowing the range of people per entry to 6 or less.


My guesses (cynical)

25% chance the map goes out the window by post 10 only to re-appear by post 50 for the final headshot.

50% chance there never will be a map

10% chance a map will be made but never used

15% chance the map will be at the forefront of every move in the RP.
======
Enters 6 ppl from the Five Points Mafia.
They aren't really a nation yet, but they still have a post office box...

Vehicle: (if allowed)
5PM modified Leafansi Technical truck.
82 mm automatic mortar and 35 mm cannon...

A PKM GPMG, a SHAW [Indiginous Automatic 12 ga shotgun] an SVT-40, and two pump action shotguns.
The rest only got, melee weapons (varies), and grenades.

Will it be strictly an infantry contest, or will vehicles be involved?
Yes vehicles are allowed.
How large is this city?
5 miles in diameter
Is this a coastal city?
An island
Will this city be occupied by its inhabitants during the contest?
Yes to prevent total destruction by napalm.
Does the city have an airport?
Yes
Will each nations entry start at a gate, or are other forms of insertion allowed?
Both

8 GSF Mercs will show up with a Mercury

Hmm... okay. I'll do this.

I'll throw in 10 Londinian Special Forces soldiers.

Will it be strictly an infantry contest, or will vehicles be involved?
Yes vehicles are allowed.
[snippet]
Will each nations entry start at a gate, or are other forms of insertion allowed?
Both

Swetness...
(pulls an Mi-8 transport/gunship and 2 pilots)
*wonders how a merc full of mercs would fare against a technical armed with an 82 mm gun/mortar and 35 mm cannon... Plus a gunship or two mounting Anti-tank rockets and GPMGs... no biggy..
------
That brings me up to 8 people.

Technical driver (Shotgun and truck)
Technical gunner (truck mounted guns and shotgun)
'Assistant gunner' (Shotgun)
Machine gunner (PKM)
Designated Marksman (SVT-40)
Heavy Shotgunner/light grenadier(SHAW)
Helicopter pilot (Pistol and Helicopter)
Helicopter Door-Gunner/loadmaster (Pistol, and helicopter PKM)

-------
This excludes the boats that get them to the island, right?

Wait, we're able to use helicopters? If one person can use a helicopter, why couldn't I just use 20 multi-role fighter jets?

Wait, we're able to use helicopters? If one person can use a helicopter, why couldn't I just use 20 multi-role fighter jets?

Pretty sure they cut the entry sizes back to a single squad.

Fighter jets can't hold ground, they just sow destruction and go away.
So using them exclusively would mean you've forfiet by default.

Since there are only so many airfields, how long do you think before some guys in a pickup truck start laying mines there?

I suppose you could, but why?

The city is 25 square miles, 2120 acres, you really think you can cover that before you run low on fuel, and make it to a safe airfield?*
(assumed 5x5 mile box)
Fallujah was just a 3 by 2 mile box, and it took the better part of the US Army and Marines quite some time, and even then, fireower was by far in their favor.

And you propse to do the same with only 20 planes, and a single tank of gas, on a single pass?
*without wantonly destroying the whole city

*shrug* I don't like when people have huge OOC discussions about w hat "must" happen and what "will" happen in certain situations. I'd rather just wait til the actual RP and do it all there.

Personally i feel it would be best to limit people to 5-6 men teams, with 1 ground vehicle max and no helos.

My humble opinion...

Personally i feel it would be best to limit people to 5-6 men teams, with 1 ground vehicle max and no helos.

My humble opinion...

Me wonders how I'm supposed to fly over the gate without one being included on the roster.

As he did say that insertions other than walking through the gate are allowed.

Or the point of an airport if nobody will use it. Thus having little tactical advantage in taking or holding it.

I included the helo because it was going to enter the city's airspace, not that it would stay around and try hunting tank in a city, as cities aren't good chopper country.
(Too many wires and buildings that get in the way)

The chopper was so that I could start someplace other than the gate, and get people onto the roofs of buildings fast. Most likely the airfield so that I can lay mines there, then run away and redeploy in the commercial/industrial district.

A C-130 would have had a crew of 5, and brought the men involved in the combat zone to 11, which is too high for my liking.

Max Limit at 3 vehicles (land and/or air) and 12 people?

Why not just insert everybody at a gate, to make it slightly more fair?

Well, considering that the person who wins the competition gets control of the island, having a pre-existing airport makes the city more valuable, and raises the level of competition.

Further, he said that you could use vehicles to transport your assets in. That means they fly in from some other source, drop off their materials, and then leave, having no actual affect on the battle once it has already started.

Personally, I believe 20 infantrymen and no vehicles would be the best thing to do.

20 Obsidian legionnaires will represent the U.F.A.T

Semi monastic Special Forces, raised from birth, engineered before it. Very secretive, relitively unknown on the international scene. They'll be in it for the win.

I won't do the breakdown of forces here, i'll wait till the actual thread to lay out equipment and the like.

Are we permitted to use satellites for Land Warrior-esque equipment?

Well, considering that the person who wins the competition gets control of the island, having a pre-existing airport makes the city more valuable, and raises the level of competition.

Further, he said that you could use vehicles to transport your assets in. That means they fly in from some other source, drop off their materials, and then leave, having no actual affect on the battle once it has already started.

Personally, I believe 20 infantrymen and no vehicles would be the best thing to do.

So I get yelled at for including the chopper and crew on the roster and giving them GPMGs and rockets so they can get in and out?

An Mi-8 isn't really what some would consider a 'gunship' in the first place.
The helo goes in fast and heavy, dusts off, and sprays down anything that looks like enemy as suppressive fire, then get out of there...

But likewise, if an APC decides to take pot-shots at it on the way in or out, it'll shoot back.

I consider anything that goes into the area as a potential combatatant, thus, I included them on the 'roster'.

Unlike Black Hawk down, it's just 6 guys, in the hour it would take for the chopper to go back home, refuel, and come back, or just to come back, chances are whatever reason they would be asked to come for would already be decided. Meaning it would either be flying in to pick up 6 dead bodies, or it would just be a waste of gas., since the only other alternative is that my 6 men defeated the enemy, thus no longer requiring the helicopter...

Historically, when contact is made with the enemy on a meeting engagement, it is pretty safe to assume both sides will take up to 50% losses in 5 minutes or less.

If the 6 men get ambushed, their life expectancy just dropped to the 20 seconds it takes to empty your mags.

Maybe when assaulting or holding a fortified position, then air suport is a little usefull, but in the time waiting for it to arrive, the situation could change dramaticly in as little time as it takes for someone to lob a nade into the bunker.

2 helicopters and a tank wouldn't be any more useful. As the vehicles just tied up 6 of your men, meaning you'll have little/no interlocking heavy firepower, and your infantry would be hobbled by the incapabilities of the tank, yet be unwilling to abandon it in favor for better positions.

A B-52 on call with areal refueling and some foot infantry based FOBs? Strong arm, weak legs, easily blinded.
------
Summary:
Agreed, no vehicles on my entry if no vehicles on anyone else's.
(Drags a catapult onto the field for inserting the troops)

I'll also try and avoid damaging the airport.

Though the one thing I hate about those 8 gates, is what happens if there are 9 entries?
Then 2 enemy squads will be going through a gate together, then open fire.

Not a fun way to die...

I suppose we could divide the entries into 2 or 4 'teams' (of equal size, so that an ntry of 20 won't be up against just an entry of 5) have them duke it out, and of the surviving team, divide them back into squads and have at it again.

And to meet the 20 man limit, I could ditch the tech and chopper and hire some HOI mercs.

I don't see what the big deal about how we get our guys into the theatre is. You say you consider even transport things as combatants. That's incorrect. I believe we can all (all who plan on inserting by air) make OOC and IC agreements to have our things go in and drop off their assets. There's no reason to include a V-22 that's not going to do anything offensively on a list of combatants.

It really isn't such a big deal.

The only problem is, when you guys start throwing in APC and the like, it tempts me to throw in an UCAV. It's just going to keep proliferating. Now, I know that the thread starter said vehicles are allowed, but I believe it would significantly decrease the quality of the role play.

Meh. You guys do whatever you want. I'll land my 20 AVDEX's and go from there.

[ Get me a map and I'll throw in twelve soldiers of the Republican Guard's special operations section and four small helicopters (two transport, two attack gunships).

What sort of city are we talking about, as well? How tall are the buildings, on average? ]

I'll send in a full GSG-9 A-Team. Twelve Operators.

Thats all I'll need.

OOC:After thinking about this I decided to carry it out.
Objective:Complete control over the city.

Details: There will be teams of 5-20 men. The city consists of a corprate area in the north wich slowly fades to high rise buildings in the south-west. A 45 foot wall circles the city with 8 gates (N,S,W,E,NW,NE,SW,SE).

Prize: The city so dont blow it up.

[ Get me a map and I'll throw in twelve soldiers of the Republican Guard's special operations section and four small helicopters (two transport, two attack gunships).

What sort of city are we talking about, as well? How tall are the buildings, on average? ]

5 mile diameter (18.75~25 sq miles)
8 poits of entry by land
Island (apparently a 45 foot seawall with 8 'gates')
Heavy residential in the SW, apartments and 5 or 15 story buildings...
North is commercial/industrial.
I'd assume the airport occupies the South-East corner
------
If it can attack the enemy, it is a combatant.
Everything is a weapon, even a bannanna...

If someone takes a V-22, goes to the air with an RPG and HMG, and starts shooting at me from the loading bay doors, I would very much consider it a combatant. And if I was shooting at it earlier, I wouldn't expect any less in their response.

When someone starts firing more weapons off a 'cargo' aircraft than is possable with a 'combat' aircraft (CH-47 can lift 15+ tons of 'ordnance', which is more than the F-111, then the MH-60 armed with a pair of Miniguns and eight Hellfire missiles...), one has to wonder if there really is a big difference. Other examples (land based) would be the Armored gun truck (10 tons of ammo, as much as 3 miniguns), and Landing Ship Medium-Rocket.

Chances are every entry has their own 'dirty trick' up their sleeve.
Mine involves my little 82 mm friends, and their smaller 35 mm & 2.75" cousins.

Every bullet, shell and missile those choppers fire is a small, irisistable offensive. Don't believe me? Stand in front of a Hydra 70 rocket pod and try stopping its 'first assault wave'.

The act of advancing is an offensive combat action, thus, if one uses helicopters to move troops and supplies into a location that wasn't occupied before, it just participated in a combat manuver. No shots fired.

Helicopters don't "sit and wait for the enemy" in a defensive posture, they go out and make rapid advances against the enemy via vertical envelopment.

Their 'bombload' is their cargo. The 'cargo' of a bomber is its bombs.
Both 'cargoes' are intended to assist in killing the enemy.

5 mile diameter (18.75~25 sq miles)
8 poits of entry by land
Island (apparently a 45 foot seawall with 8 'gates')
Heavy residential in the SW, apartments and 5 or 15 story buildings...
North is commercial/industrial.
I'd assume the airport occupies the South-East corner

[ Yeah, I saw the description, but I was hoping for a graphical map or something, so we don't get bogged down in 'no you were over there' 'no I was over here' back-and-forth, so I can plan the approach to the airport and so I can tell where the tactical chokepoints might be.

That aside, thanks for the building description. (: Missed that one. ]

Wait, we're able to use helicopters? If one person can use a helicopter, why couldn't I just use 20 multi-role fighter jets?

You could if they were 1 person jets and if you win you get the city/island.

-snip-

*sigh*

If everyone who sends in an airborne transport vehicle uses said vehicle JUST to set down their troops, and doesn't fire on anything from that transport, then it's fair.

The "what if's" are silly.

Have each vehicle count as 3 people plus crew/controler on the roster?
(To prevent UCAVs and godrods from not being counted)

The city is powered and has a cell phone network, right?
(Gives an AG-36 to the Marksman)

What 'what ifs'?
They are more if/then hypothetical statements.
(Ex: If such and such a condition is met, then the following would most likely happen.)

Rather than 'silly' rhetorical 'what if' questions.
(What if I took 10 fighter bombers, loaded them with thermonuclear weapons, and dropped them on the city, and then have the crew eject with radiation suits so they can immediately occupy the resaulting crater?)

One uses then as a cause/effect divider, the other simply uses it to keep the events in order.

If it's silly, but it works and is correct, is it really that wrong?
If it's a fair fight, then you didn't plan well enough.
What it all comes down to (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYNP-9C0_oI) don't worry about what the enemy does or doesn't have, worry about finding ways to kill the enemy before he kills you.

PEGASUS INTERNATIONAL OFFICE OF TACTICAL OPERATIONS:

We came upon mention of your competition recently and wish to send 6 contractors into this competition. We do not however wish to acquire the city itself. We are willing to settle for 50 billion USD or its equivalent, should our contractors succeed. We do however, require confirmation as to whether contestants will be firing upon each other, in addition to those occupying the city. If that is the case we will likely need to reconsider our request for entrance.

PEGASUS INTERNATIONAL OFFICE OF TACTICAL OPERATIONS:

We came upon mention of your competition recently and wish to send 6 contractors into this competition. We do not however wish to acquire the city itself. We are willing to settle for 50 billion USD or its equivalent, should our contractors succeed. We do however, require confirmation as to whether contestants will be firing upon each other, in addition to those occupying the city. If that is the case we will likely need to reconsider our request for entrance.

Contestants will be firing upon each other.

PEGASUS INTERNATIONAL OFFICE OF TACTICAL OPERATIONS:

Upon further consideration, we have decided that we will indeed send 6 contractors to this contest. We however do intend to inform you that as this appears to be blood sport, and we operate outside the standard military chains of command, that we will not be held accountable for any excessive damage to the city that our contractors inflict, nor will we be held accountable for any deaths they may cause.

So are we going to take this to an IC thread at any point or what?

*raises a hand*

1 x Animarnia Special Forces Green Beret Commando Squad (8 Commandos)
1 x FV501 Warrior IFV BullDog Custom (Snub Nose 30mm Razor Cannon with 5.56mm Coaxial, 1 x Mounted Browning 50 cal, 2 x 15 2.75 inch Turret side mounted rocket pods, Rear Entry with Ports to shoot out of from inside. 2 x Multibarrle Metal storm 70mm Combo (Frag, HE. Thermobaric. Smoke) Grenade launchers, Active FOLED Camo, Sound supressed Liquid Cooled Engine)

1 x AR-12-21C (included grenade launcher, SUSAT II Site) or 1 x JB-168 Rifle OR 1 x F2000 with grenade launcher OR 1 CR-20 with Grenade Launcher
1 x SIG-Sauer SIG Pro 234 in .40SW and laser pointer OR 1 x DAC-99 PDW
1 x Optical Active Digital Camouflage with IR Masking (OADC)
1 x Dragon Skin Armour II (Woven Silk Steel, Titanium, Ceramic Disc Mesh)
1 x M420 Helmet with Integrated Radio and HUD display + Night vision/IR
3 x Under-barrel Thermobaric Grenades
1 x Smoke Grenade
2 x Frag Grenade
1 x Snake Combat Knife
1 x Land Warrior System
1 x StrikeNet/Cerberus Sat Uplink
1 x Field Med Kit
1 x BDU with Boots
3 x MRE's
1 x Thermal Blanket
2 x C4 Charges w/ Detonators

Other equipment is issued per Special Skills. (Example - Demo gets Extra C4 and Grenades, Heavy Assault gets LAW Rocket Launcher etc)

How stiff is Dragon skin again?
(has an evil idea)

Suppose I have to state ammo supply/consumption?
(or at least keep track of it)

Shotgun ammo:
12 ga 3" Mag:
Belted: 200 shells on 4 belts
Boxed: 300 shells in 6 boxes
Box mags: 6x 10 shot

Rifle:
7.62 x 54R: (including helicopter ammo stores)
Helicopter belt: 1200 rounds on 8 belts
Belt: 750 rounds on 150 round belts and 150 rounds on 50 round belts
Mags:3x 10 shot boxes
Loose ammo: ten 5 shot stripper clips

"Artillery"

82 mm mortar:
Shoots 4 shot stripper clips or loose ammo
80 shells
2.75" FFARs:
12 on 2 pods (for Hot LZ suppression)
35 mm cannon:
Shoots 5 shot stripper clips
120 shells
40 mm grenades
60

Pistol ammunition:
6.5 x 25 mm
120 bullets in 4 clips
(think 7.62x25 TT on 'roids)
6.5 x 55 mm
80 rounds in 2 clips
'Pistol' is HAP-655, on paper, it is a PDW.

Dragonskin is a flexible armor comprised of dozens of overlapping ceramic/titanium composite discs. It flexs with the wearer much better than modern strike plates, and is currently undergoing testing for level IV ballistic protection, and some sort of top-secret level V classification as well. Class IV armor has to survive AP rifle rounds, such as 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 variants.

The US Army hates this stuff, saying that its the perfect armor... for insurgents. However everyone else's tests (the makers, CNN, history and discovery channel, multiple fire departments, and Blackwater USA, to name a few) show that it's extremely effective, surpassing even the US Army's Interceptor body armor system.

So basically, its tough as freakin' nails and flexes to survive more rounds than a modern ballistic strike plate. Even if the Army hates it, as I've said.

Oh yeah, cops like it too, while I'm at it, as do bomb squads.

I hope that isn't Level V STANAG designation...
http://www.ballistics.com.au/technical/ballisticandstabstandards.php
http://www.militarytimes.com/static/projects/pages/dragon_skin_release_000121may07.pdf
V Automatic Cannon 25mm APDS-TM-791 or TLB 073 500 Metres 1258m/sec
That is generally regarded for tanks... Like the AMX-30 and M-1 Abrams.

Too much flex is a bad thing. As you'll then get killed by blunt force trauma.
As the "Maximum depth of penetration" issue caused by its flexability, and delamination, is why it is so contraversial.

Having your chest flattened by a 7.62 mm bullet or having it punctured and leaking pretty much will kill you all the same with internal bleeding.

Dragon skin is also tested to 0108.01 NIJ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIJ) standards (tests for penetration), not 0101.04 (tests for Blunt force trauma)

The scales also have a tendancy to flake off or delaminate at 120 degrees F (about 60 degrees C) In short, if you'll be sweating, don't use it. It failed because they didn't want another mess like the early introduction of the AR-15 in vietnam caused. They'll have to improve the laminations, and get the wieght down. The armor works perfectly in theory, but IRL, the technology isn't quite there yet.

Mostly I started the question wondering what a FRAG-12 would do to it... :)

I'm not sure about what this Class V is, but its beyond surviving AP rounds, so its gotta be something like surviving .50 caliber or something suitably insane.

I don't think it flexes enough to cause too much trauma, but it has to flex to avoid shattering, which is a trade off you've gotta make I guess. (I'm not a body armor specialist)

I'll have a team of 15 paras then. (That's 12 infantry in an MICV and a heavily armed Jeep, and the three MICV crewmen).
Antigran weapons.
Those soldiers who are designated '(AMTR)' have advanced medical training which means they are not medics but are abe to carry out fairly advanced medical procedures

That's:


MICV

First Sergeant (ATMR)
Corporal (Combat Engineer)
PFC

1x40mm Mounted Cannon
2xV60X3 Mounted HMG
2xMounted Rafor ATGW
-----
2xMP-45 SMG
1xKKS 90 Pistol
1xPortable LR-85
Personal Kit

INFANTRY

Lieutenant
Staff Sergeant
Corporal (ATMR)
Corporal
PFC (ATMR)
PFC
PFC (Medic)
Private (LAW)
Private (Sniper)
Private (Combat Engineer)
Private
Private (ATMR)

8xSabre II Assault Rifle with 8xUSG Under-Slung Grenade-Launchers
1xLR-6S Designated Marksman's Rifle
1xMeira III LAW
3xMP-45 SMG
8xSilenced KKS 90T Tactical Pistol
1xKKS R3 Revolver
Explosives
Mines
Grenades
Personal Kit

The vehicles are:

Raider MICV
GPL Jeep

Since CQB, or urban combat, is what I do for a living, I have a vested interest in this RP. However this could easily turn into an I said He said thing, do to the nature of CQB. Positioning is crucial, both on offense and defense. Pretty much the only way to pull this off is to not know what exactly your opponent is doing, and in an RP type situation it's hard to ignore, and not take into account what someone has stated about where they are. Even if you properly clear the room, the casualty rate for those taking buildings is absurd, so why it's hard to ignore what the other people are doing.

I also noticed that some of you mentioned mortars, that would be a waste. To effectively use mortars, they must be "walked" onto target, something damn near impossible in an urban environment, especially on the types of targets you would be aiming at. Not to mention that transporting the mortar systems in this environment is incredibly difficult. To top it off they cause too much collateral damage in this type of combat. So take them if you want, it's just a wasted asset.

In my opinion, taking a team of as many people as possible would be the best way to tackle this situation. Fourteen men would probably be a good bet, judging on the limitations. Twelve man squad, one squad leader, and two medics. Maybe two or three vehicles, but they would be difficult to employ as anything other than cover, depending on the street size though.

Probably the best way to start this RP off would be to zone the city off into different quadrants for each team. Have them start in a defensive area, and have some teams start trying to take over. Maybe having "safe zones" for each team, then a large open zone would be a good idea. This is a difficult one to place because there isn't the standard occupying force and the aggressing force. Also, having the numbers so limited makes it an elimination game anyway, there is no way to hold the ground you've gained so far.

I want to do it. . . but i'm not sure.

~snip~

MICV

First Sergeant
Corporal
PFC



A 1st sergeant has no place in MOUT. His job is entirely admin, you might want to rethink this.

Can someone please make a map for me, my mapmaking skills are terrible.

Since CQB, or urban combat, is what I do for a living, I have a vested interest in this RP. However this could easily turn into an I said He said thing, do to the nature of CQB. Positioning is crucial, both on offense and defense. Pretty much the only way to pull this off is to not know what exactly your opponent is doing, and in an RP type situation it's hard to ignore, and not take into account what someone has stated about where they are. Even if you properly clear the room, the casualty rate for those taking buildings is absurd, so why it's hard to ignore what the other people are doing.
Yeah, that may be a problem, besty we can hope for is that everyone uses detail in their posts.

I also noticed that some of you mentioned mortars, that would be a waste. To effectively use mortars, they must be "walked" onto target, something damn near impossible in an urban environment, especially on the types of targets you would be aiming at. Not to mention that transporting the mortar systems in this environment is incredibly difficult. To top it off they cause too much collateral damage in this type of combat. So take them if you want, it's just a wasted asset.

Gun/mortar (http://pcf45.com/misfire/mortar.html) mounted on a truckbed.
In late 1964, Hicks took his invention to the Dahlgren Proving Grounds for test firing from a flat bed truck. Following these successful land tests, two of the mounts were installed on board a 95-foot patrol boat at Norfolk, Virginia. Similar tests on this vessel in the waters off Hampton Roads quickly proved that the mortar and the machine gun combination was a viable one.
Except mine is the Russian 82 mm version. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2B9_Vasilek)
http://www.hrvatski-vojnik.hr/hrvatski-vojnik/0122004/pictures/Humv_Vasilek1.jpg

Mostly to deal with tanks/IFVs or as very local artillery when things get pinned.
Since I doubt the 35 mm will do any more than bust a track and perform some nice anti-air on supply drops.
'Walked?" You can't 'walk' the CEP and expect it to move in the direction you want it to. Thankfully, due to the short ranges involved in MOUT (like shooting over a house or two and into the next) dispersion is limited

In direct fire, it's about as good as a massive automatic grenade launcher.

True, like all indirect artillery they need a spotter, and the 1st two rounds are merely used to calibrate the whole mess.

Least I'm not issuing the CC-35C bolt action 35 mm sniper rifle (http://youtube.com/watch?v=HyAl9qK3Rlg) to these guys...

In my opinion, taking a team of as many people as possible would be the best way to tackle this situation. Fourteen men would probably be a good bet, judging on the limitations. Twelve man squad, one squad leader, and two medics. Maybe two or three vehicles, but they would be difficult to employ as anything other than cover, depending on the street size though.
Of coutrse that is the 'best' way, but that would require people to write 14 bios each... That or use nameless stand-ins/redshirts/stormtroopers.

So basically, you are taking a weapon system that requires stability, and mounting it on unstable, yet mobile, platform. Interesting idea, but by the time you took those two calibration shots, your target would have either A. moved to a covered and concealed position, or B. found you and started fucking your world up. Yes, there is a fifty cal mounted on the top of it, but it looks like that is a secondary weapon, and would be pointing damn near straight up, so by the time you brought it down to fire at them they would have put a magazine in your chest. Besides it looks like that combo couldn't even get the type of angles you would need.

Anyway, yes, writing fourteen bios would be difficult, but it's not necessary, redshirt types are the best way to pull it off, because you cannot deny the fact you will have to take casualties.

Who said named characters can't die?
Give them a name and bio and let them die.

The 82 mm 2B9 Vasilek or 'Cornflower' automatic gun-mortar is a very complex breech loading or muzzle loading mortar that can function both as a high-angle mortar as well as a flat-trajectory gun.

The mortar itself is mounted on a very robust tripod and uses clamps to control traverse and elevation angles. Unless fitted with NO FIRE zone mechanical stops, the mortar has 360 degrees of traverse and -30 degrees of depression and +71.5 degrees of elevation. Its rate of fire is 18 rounds/minute at 45 degrees elevation in DROP FIRE mode and 10 rounds/minute in TRIGGER FIRE mode. Sights for the mortar are attached to the left side of the elevation arc. Weight of the Mk 2 Mod 0 was 593 pounds; the weight increased to 677 pounds in the Mk 2 Mod 1 (with machinegun). Range of the 81mm (direct) was 1,000+ yards; (high angle, indirect) was 3,940 yards. Maximum effective range of the .50 Browning machine gun was 2,000 yards; maximum range was 7,440 yards.

Then there was the 60 mm Thompson-Brandt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandt_60_mm_LR_Gun-mortar)

And mounting the 82 mm isn't nearly as bad as when they placed 37 mm AT guns and 4.5" Mortars on the M38 jeep clones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M6_Fargo
Scorpion - Version fitted with Vasliyek 82mm automatic mortar. This is a heavy chassis Humvee equipped with a 2B9 Vasilyek 82mm automatic mortar and intended to provide more protection for US troops in combat zones. This was developed in 2004 by engineers at the US Army's Picatinny Arsenal. The mortar itself can fire on single shots or on automatic using 4 round clips. Range for direct fire is 1,000m and indirect fire is 4,000m. It's also intended to provide another means of destroying roadside bombs but at a safer standoff range
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-21404.html
I'd rather not argue with the US Army when they say something works...
Just how well exactly in the blanks they don't talk about.

They copied what Officer Hicks did in 1964...

The M551 didn't complain much when it fired 152 mm shells...
It just tended to lift a piece of track off the ground...

They are essentially low recoil gun/howitzers that shoot mortar shells...

There is nothing wrong with giving a profile and then killing them, I'm just saying it's probably more trouble than it's worth with so many people .

Even if it's used as a flat trajectory gun, that doesn't solve any of the issues I pointed out. A flat trajectory just means it shoots straight, useless for shooting through buildings. To top it off the rate of fire means nothing, it's how fast the team can adjust the sights. A very good team can do it in 15-30 seconds, but thats not accounting for the time it takes the spotter relay the info.

True.

But if you'll recall, the 81 mm American version was mounted on small river boats.

Oddly, the mass of the gun aparently made everything more accurate as the inertia dampened the pitch/roll of the boat as it went in excess of 40 knots.

http://pcf45.com
Click 'Misfire'
http://pcf45.com/misfire/81-50.html
http://pcf45.com/misfire/misfire.html

And then remember that the 2B9 82 mm is a dual breech/muzle loader.

I'm not disputing the accuracy of the system, I'm just saying that it couldn't be employed effectively against combat hardened forces in a MOUT environment, and even if it were to be used the collateral damage would be too much for it to be worth it.

So long as I don't have blue on blue, I'm happy with it.

Besides, my mafia doesn't have much else to choose from.
(40 mm AGLs were more expensive at Leafansi, and tanks are most certainly out of the question*)

If shooting over buildings, the 35 mm would be useless.
(35 mm used as AP and AAA [APERS + HE-Frag + API])

*Remembers the $0.8 trillion burning a hole in their black market account
I should buy some T-55s... or BMDs... But that can wait...

So long as I don't have blue on blue, I'm happy with it.

Besides, my mafia doesn't have much else to choose from.
(40 mm AGLs were more expensive at Leafansi)

Ok, however you wanna do it.

Now, dare I ask, what the hell is a SHAW. I've never heard of this system before, and my research leads to nothing but deadends.

Indiginouis piece of crap fully automatc only belt fed shotgun.
It has some reliability/practicality issues all of its own.

12 ga, between 250 and 300 shells per minute.

"Poor man's" urban MG/AGL/entry gun/combat shotgun...

Squad
Heavy
Automatic
Weapon
(N)ight sight [optional, actualy denotes slug firing scoped version with semi-auto only mag feed sound suppressor for close ange urban night sniping]*
-
12 gauge

The (N) version isn't used.
*Essentally a USAS /w/ scope and silencer

(More recent) Details:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=362


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The CC-35C was an early design I set out, a 35 mm single shot bolt action high impulse rifle. Similar in design to the PTRD (Long recoil manualy trurned bolt)

Not too bad since I recently learned of a 76 mm barreled version of the PTRD. Before then, I only knew of the 20 mm vulcan rebarreling project.

Can someone please make a map for me i suck at making maps.

A 1st sergeant has no place in MOUT. His job is entirely admin, you might want to rethink this.

Antigran forces use the word differently.
A staff sergeant would be what you are thinking of.

BTW, one of my men will be carrying a fully automatic shotgun, which I forgot to put in.
It is the Ranger Tactica III M4A2 Fifth batch, which is still prototype.
Piccy here (http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s129/antigr/RangerTacticaIIIM4A2Batch5.jpg)

Antigran forces use the word differently.
A staff sergeant would be what you are thinking of.


So you expose higher ranks to more danger?

No, we concentrate on higher ranks getting combat experience and leadership skills.

No, we concentrate on higher ranks getting combat experience and leadership skills.

But if they go at lower ranks they should already have those skills, without risking the valuable skills they have. Plus then the leaders intimidate the lower ranks less.