NationStates Jolt Archive

This is the OOC thread for Terra Prime (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12822699#post12822699)

Any, I repeat ANY arguing, yelling, and other anything ooc should go here. Keep the thread clean people.

Oh this will be interesting.

I'm going to tag this thread because, I want to have a good laugh or two >_>

Tesseract? Is that like an ignore-gun?

Well, maybe.

It is to do with temporal tech, and involves erasing something from existence, something which is generally <accepted> if rarely used amongst the FT Temporal peoples. Last time i saw it used was in the ESUS Civil War.

So yeah.

I dunno. Doesn't seem like the proper time to pull such a thing as that. After all, the death star would still take some time to get around to terminating the other worlds, if it were to enter Sithy's mind to do so. There should still be sufficient time to evac without whipping out an ignoregun.

Well im not currently involved, nor at the moment do i expect to be involved in the RP.. So i'll just leave it to you guys.

Technically everything is on pause until Sith gets home from work and types up a post for that placeholder he posted, and then I get to do the same.

It isn't an ignore gun.

Grand now the IC thread is getting filled up with a couple of OOC comments and placeholders...

Well, we all need to wait for US to post anyways.

US posted all, fill in your placeholders now.

I would like to make a statement regarding siths post and wanky planet kill.

I have been hounded as I debated this on msn with people who have no idea how wanky this is.

1: How the fuck can a death star move 30 seconds in one post, when 8, 10^38 watt super disruptor's mounted on the planets and moons were pointed right at it, ready to fire as soon as it got in range. Oh but its ok its sith right? he has enough respect to wankly rush the death star and shoot my planets WITH OUT talking to me about pwnting my home world, I think this is stupid wanky, and pretty much bad form. How in the high holy hell AND WHEN was moving and pwnting planets and moons in one post acceptable? when has this ever been acceptable, with out talking to the people who owned the planet.

2: Mean while He posted the death star having its super laser charged in the middle of the thread, claiming it was charged when it got in the system, this I laugh, because ANY ONE WITH EYES could see some thing with 10^38 fucking watts charge up, and with that as soon as it got in range I would have killed it. but no since ns is full of double standards and people (I will not mention names) who will agree with the "most powerful and respected parties" just to get some stupid points. Oh but its the death star.. it can survive this that, he was always in the right it was never bad form.

3: My summery this needs some discussion allot of it, I think its total bullshit and wank and needs to be discussed before this goes any future, I only accepted such shit because half the guys on msn told me that If I didn't I would look like a godmoding noob or wanker, well you know what im not the wanker here.

Perhaps the range required for the Death Star to hit your planet was greater than that of your guns' ability to return fire.

Also, seeing as some of us did not talk to you on MSN, I would prefer if you took a slightly calmer attitude when presenting your initial argument on NS. It was quite incoherent.

All I'm saying it needs to be discussed

why waste money on a death star,just build a planet killer ship

why waste money on a death star,just build a planet killer ship

The same reason some people drive sports cars and big SUVs.

The same reason some people drive sports cars and big SUVs.

ha i'll go with that :D

Or perhaps because the Death Star actualy is a "planet killer ship."

Or perhaps because the Death Star actualy is a "planet killer ship."

no it a a mobile battle station with planet-destroying superweapon built in it

no it a a mobile battle station with planet-destroying superweapon built in it

And the difference between a mobile station and a ship would be?

And the difference between a mobile station and a ship would be?

Probably the same difference between a mobile oil platform and a drilling ship.

And the difference between a mobile station and a ship would be?
go ask George Lucas why he made it a station

It's a symbol, a singular show of force, a symbol of terror that would force entire planets to yield. It's nothing when you have ships that can slag worlds, what you need is something truly terrifying.

An immense, almost unkillable battlestation, with enough men and supplies to lay siege to systems and the weapon to kill planets on a whim. It's part garrison, part superweapon, all forming together to give you an ultimate declaration of power, might and intent.

Would you rather have a brand spanking new ferarri or 50 fiat puntos? Either way, you still get where your going, but one garners awe and respect, not bland indifference ;)

A brand new ferrari can get blown up with the same amount of explosives needed to blow up a pinto.

Harder to hit the ferrari...

Harder to hit the ferrari...

Not really. Pintos actually have a psychic force field that prevents people from getting too close caused by the fact that so much as tapping the rear end causes the car to OMG ASPLODE!

Psychic? You mean these Pintos have minds!?!?! AHHHH!!!!

Not quite. I suppose it would be more of an aura of fear than anything.

In fact: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcNeorjXMrE

As loath as I am to admit it, I would have to say that TFU has a point with regards to the Death Star just showing up and blowing up his homeworld before he could do anything at all.

Alternatley, you could just go with things the way they are. TFU loses his homeworld, but you guys lose everything in the system currently, including the Death Star and all the support ships with it. =p

Arguments of range are not really relevant in this instance since TFU's guns are (or were) massive fixed installations for planetary defense, thus it would be odd if they couldn't engage at extreme range considering their output...

I would like to make a statement regarding siths post and wanky planet kill.

I have been hounded as I debated this on msn with people who have no idea how wanky this is.

Perhaps, because it is not, and the rest of NS is right and you're wrong? Seems far more likely.

1: How the fuck can a death star move 30 seconds in one post, when 8, 10^38 watt super disruptor's mounted on the planets and moons were pointed right at it, ready to fire as soon as it got in range. Oh but its ok its sith right? he has enough respect to wankly rush the death star and shoot my planets WITH OUT talking to me about pwnting my home world, I think this is stupid wanky, and pretty much bad form. How in the high holy hell AND WHEN was moving and pwnting planets and moons in one post acceptable? when has this ever been acceptable, with out talking to the people who owned the planet.

I will ignore the french in this rant, even though it instantly devolves it from serious discussion, but I will answer your points anyway.

You never posted any such information regarding the moons so the point is moot.

The Death Star fires from some considerable range, see Episode four A new hope, Alderran isn't exactly directly below the death star, otherwise the exploding planet could do some damage.

The Death Star is always charged, the charging time is a bit of a misconception, since all the station really has to do is go, fire. It's like turning on a light.

We did talk to you on MSN, your response was "Do what you want, I don't care I'm away to play GTA Vice City." So we did, not my fault is it?

And lastly, this is not about you TFU, you're the traitor here. You made an OOC agreement to have an Imperial battlestation orbit Terra Prime, you also made an OOC agreement to allow us to continue the trial, but yet you continue to plot and try and stab us in the back. Remember, your nation is guilty of treason against the emperor, enough reason to wipe you off the face of the Galaxy. But I have answered all of the above.

2: Mean while He posted the death star having its super laser charged in the middle of the thread, claiming it was charged when it got in the system, this I laugh, because ANY ONE WITH EYES could see some thing with 10^38 fucking watts charge up, and with that as soon as it got in range I would have killed it. but no since ns is full of double standards and people (I will not mention names) who will agree with the "most powerful and respected parties" just to get some stupid points. Oh but its the death star.. it can survive this that, he was always in the right it was never bad form.

Actually, I wonder how you would be able to tell? It's always charged, it's how it works. The Death Star uses capacitors, and vents energy directly into space consistently. A Hyper matter reactor is always on, always creating the same ammount of energy. We don't need to "charge" in the common sense.

The only double standards in this game, is you changing your mind every twenty seconds, and then crying.

As far as I'm aware in regard to this OOC post, you're really the only one demonstrating some bad form.

3: My summery this needs some discussion allot of it, I think its total bullshit and wank and needs to be discussed before this goes any future, I only accepted such shit because half the guys on msn told me that If I didn't I would look like a godmoding noob or wanker, well you know what im not the wanker here.

No it does not, I'm waiting for the people with placeholders to post in the thread, the action is taken, you accepted it, it's done. You can't just come along four days later. You've blown up your systems sun now? How do you expect to repair that?

Alternatley, you could just go with things the way they are. TFU loses his homeworld, but you guys lose everything in the system currently, including the Death Star and all the support ships with it. =p

The point is rather this, TFU was not expecting it to open fire, nor could he open with the first shot. Politics play here, he made an agreement to have the battlestation in orbit, so he had to accept it, he was also ordered to place his defence installations on stand by, he refused. So the Death Star, just killed it for not doing as he was told ICly.

OOCly this has all been sorted out prior, and TFU is just coming back to the table for a dinner that's almost a week old.

Either way, he has blown up the star now, a rather rash reaction, but he can have the Death Star, we're not that fussed, it was going to be scrapped anyway, going out in an exploding sun is far more impressive than being left to decay in a scrap yard.

Relevant to your interests...

-[18:01] Unified Sith: Which is why we are preparing to exterminate him.

-[18:06] Anonymous: Are you implying that your toys survived
being supernova'd?
[18:06] Unified Sith: Do you honestly think I would let TFU harm me

-[18:08] Unified Sith: The Death Star that has just died, was being replaced
[18:09] Unified Sith: We're replacing it.
[18:09] Unified Sith: Honestly, didn't anyone think it was just too
easy for TFU?

-[18:19] Anonymous: The simple fact of the matter is that you're
far from invulnerable, and if someone puts enough effort into it, they
can show you to be just as vulnerable as anyone else.
[18:19] Unified Sith: They can, but we work on making sure that never happens.
[18:19] Unified Sith: Rob agreed to his homeworld being blown up on MSN
[18:19] Unified Sith: He said he didn't care either way, so we took our option.



My belief is that Sith has no intention of cooperating. However, this is none of my business.

[QUOTE=Auman;12837642]Relevant to your interests...

-[18:01] Unified Sith: Which is why we are preparing to exterminate him.

-[18:06] Anonymous: Are you implying that your toys survived
being supernova'd?
[18:06] Unified Sith: Do you honestly think I would let TFU harm me

-[18:08] Unified Sith: The Death Star that has just died, was being replaced
[18:09] Unified Sith: We're replacing it.
[18:09] Unified Sith: Honestly, didn't anyone think it was just too
easy for TFU?

-[18:19] Anonymous: The simple fact of the matter is that you're
far from invulnerable, and if someone puts enough effort into it, they
can show you to be just as vulnerable as anyone else.
[18:19] Unified Sith: They can, but we work on making sure that never happens.
[18:19] Unified Sith: Rob agreed to his homeworld being blown up on MSN
[18:19] Unified Sith: He said he didn't care either way, so we took our option.



The tricky thing is with those there MSN chat logs, is that they look rather fabricated.

[QUOTE=Auman;12837642]Relevant to your interests...

-[18:01] Unified Sith: Which is why we are preparing to exterminate him.

-[18:06] Anonymous: Are you implying that your toys survived
being supernova'd?
[18:06] Unified Sith: Do you honestly think I would let TFU harm me

-[18:08] Unified Sith: The Death Star that has just died, was being replaced
[18:09] Unified Sith: We're replacing it.
[18:09] Unified Sith: Honestly, didn't anyone think it was just too
easy for TFU?

-[18:19] Anonymous: The simple fact of the matter is that you're
far from invulnerable, and if someone puts enough effort into it, they
can show you to be just as vulnerable as anyone else.
[18:19] Unified Sith: They can, but we work on making sure that never happens.
[18:19] Unified Sith: Rob agreed to his homeworld being blown up on MSN
[18:19] Unified Sith: He said he didn't care either way, so we took our option.



The tricky thing is with those there MSN chat logs, is that they look rather fabricated.

I don't believe the things you said here were appropriate. It seems that an OOC problem has evolved out of this roleplay between yourself and TFU and this is a serious problem.

The truth shall set us free. And when all sides can see what is truly being said, the healing process can begin. Feel free to post logs of our conversations, Sith.

In the spirit of cooperation, we shall see this roleplay to a successful conclusion. We're all friends here and there is no need for hostility.

Though I am not part of this conflict I find it bad form on Unified Siths part. If Aumans post is correct, Unified Sith is acting with out an open mind and is strong headed as to not take any actual lose. As such I would have to slap your hand US. And if these MSN conversation logs are incorrect , I hope US can provide evidence stating otherswise.


Oh and so far the RPs looks good. I have had fun reading it.

Though I am not part of this conflict I find it bad form on Unified Siths part. If Aumans post is correct, Unified Sith is acting with out an open mind and is strong headed as to not take any actual lose. As such I would have to slap your hand US. And if these MSN conversation logs are incorrect , I hope US can provide evidence stating otherswise.


Oh and so far the RPs looks good. I have had fun reading it.

I believe there is some misconception, the Death Star will die in TFU's sun going nova. I do believe however he and Balrogga made an arrangement, and it is up to Balrogga to post the death of the Death Star or its survival.

We put the Death Star into Terra Prime without an escort, and without a full crew for one primary reason. It was old, nearing the end of its life and we had fully intended on it being destroyed in a battle with TFU, since his attempted rebellion.

In Feb07; earlier this year, we begun the construction of a new replacement battlestation, clearly shown in the post here.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=518925

Notice the date and time on the top left of the thread. And it was and is our full intention to release said Death Star from drydock, once the current one has been destroyed.

As for the MSN chat logs. I am not about to get into a fluster about them, they can be faked, and to be honest I am unwilling to be dragged down to such a level, where anyone can edit anything.

For the record I did not say it was ok to blow my home world up, at any point in time, and unified sith had never asked me at any juncture that it was ok, or that he would attempt to do so. At any rate axis, my guns could have engaged at long ranges but it would have burned out my planetary power gird including sheilds and ground based defenses.

Well I feel that the lost of your homeplanet without a epic battle both in space an d planetside is not the best way to approach things. Many, including myself tend to forget that RP is for the enjoyment of the story... And there is not much story building in the way of Unified Siths actions. Perhaps a large space battle then the appearence of the Death Star would have been better.

But I am just rammbling. you guys have to work this out among yourselves. If anything... I would say just delete and start over.

All this bitching and complaining, no matter if the cause justifies it or not, is doing nothing but casting those who are doing so in unfavorable light.

I was given command of the DS in post #23 and spoke extensively with TFU before typing up Post #24. I arranged a way for TFU to be “forgotten” by the forces under my command if he were to remain out of sight of the Empire. He wants out of the GE and this would be the easiest way. I arranged with TFU to have an RP where I pull all the Imperial Forces out of his territory and then use that as a distraction to allow me to slip in a character for an espionage RP. We both agreed to this and now I want to know why things are changing. If he suddenly destroys the DS, there is no way I can keep him out of the target of the GE and his goal of leaving would be rendered non-existent. US would be justified in having Vader over ride my commands and order everyone to attack him out of retribution.

The reason I was trying to help him was to allow him a last chance at starting fresh without the ghosts haunting him. What should be done, especially since I cannot do the RP with him if the system were to explode seven posts after I posted my orders?

If TFU wishes to post the convo we had, he may to back up the arrangements we made but I won’t. I have never done so in the years I have been here and this certainly is not worth breaking that good habit.

Well I feel that the lost of your homeplanet without a epic battle both in space an d planetside is not the best way to approach things. Many, including myself tend to forget that RP is for the enjoyment of the story... And there is not much story building in the way of Unified Siths actions. Perhaps a large space battle then the appearence of the Death Star would have been better.

But I am just rammbling. you guys have to work this out among yourselves. If anything... I would say just delete and start over.

Most of the time yes, I would agree, and I had planned on having an epic trial of Robs president and a show of propoganda, but he just pushed an Imperial too far. I feel that it was entirely in keeping with how the empire works, and we still intend on having that trial.

Well Balrogga puts thing into a new perspective... If TFU would be better off with his homeworld getting torched then I think he should have taken to easy out instead of having his entire nation IC nuked into oblivion.

Considering how things have changed, I am not posting in that thread yet. I am deleting my post holder, go on ahead everyone.

That is all.

Most of the time yes, I would agree, and I had planned on having an epic trial of Robs president and a show of propoganda, but he just pushed an Imperial too far. I feel that it was entirely in keeping with how the empire works, and we still intend on having that trial.



Yeah by asking if your forces wanted help in security, it was a doggy ic and ooc reason for killing my home world in the first place.

Doggy?

It would seem to me that further discussion = bitchfest.

Something was agreed upon before. Either stick to that or nobody gets to complain.

This entire debate is stupid. If you let the Galactic fucking Empire put a Death Star in orbit over your homeworld immediately after you attempted a coup, you should know damned good and well that your woop is getting shooped.

Quit whining, just roll with it. YOUR PLANET IS DEAAAAAAAAAD!, but so is the Death Star. Everyone can go home now, there's nothing left to see here.

Speaking as one who once attempted to enact a coup of the Galactic Empire, I can say with rather good assurance that this end result is not surprising. When I attempted to removed Nightshade from the throne I lost more than 2/3rds of my fleet (numbering before hand in the thousands) and my entire home system: three planets, plus my capital world Thrashia Prime. I lost all my colonial territories, completely destroyed. Emperor Shadaum IV, my main rp character, died after the battle as well; not to mention other notable characters such as Grand Admiral Alabar.

Did I cry about it? No. Did I try getting out of it by doing something stupid like suicidally blow up the system's sun? No. Did I run? You bet your ass I did.

I retreated to a friendly nation's frontier, I rebuilt my nation from scrap. I came back stronger and more powerful than you could possibly imagine (:P). Ten years IC time after the battle I made peace with Chronosia (then ruling party of the GE) and then with Sith when he came back.

I survived a near genocide. When I found you plotting for a similar cause TFU, I had actually originally joined. Then when I considered how much damage I had taken, how much death and disability it had caused, I decided a new course of action.

I would "remove the head" in order that the body could live. I knew that should you attempt it, that in the end you would suffer as I did, if not worse. While I of course felt that I could handle the task, the price was not one I was willing to pay.

So, my two cents? Just stomach it, take the blow, and get on with it. Robert is going to be killed. His sin is being paid for by the destruction of your home planet.

The Death Star is not dead and the system was not nuked. TFU and I had a long discission before I even typed up post #24. It is part of the arrangements. The DS was to pull out and return to Asfaltum where the remaining fleets as well as my Battlegroup are. Their presence is acting as a distraction so the side RP we are having can take place. With the DS gone, there is no reason for TFU to Nova his sun so he said he would retcon it. The DS is supposed to be decomissioned after the side RP is done and left in the Asfaltum system as far as I know. It is currently under my control as per orders given to me in post #23.

Please get verification from TFU if you need to.

I really think you GE people, especially Balrogga, need to be a little bit more respectful.

Criticisms of your actions and your roleplay are hardly "whining", especially given TFU has valid reasons to do so.

Except that in this case it really is whining. TFU is just butthurt that his plan backfired and now the GE is whipping his ass for it.

Especially Balrogga? It was my impression that he is the only reason that TFU may be able to keep his home planet.

I really think you GE people, especially Balrogga, need to be a little bit more respectful.

Criticisms of your actions and your roleplay are hardly "whining", especially given TFU has valid reasons to do so.

Currently I am trying to assist TFU in removing himself from the GE radar so he can basicly start over without being under the gun. I am probably going to get into trouble ICly for it but I am trying to help.

I spent hours with TFU discussing things and determining a logical way out and we settled on this. He will probably end up better than he is currently and if he carefully chooses his actions in the future, he should remain out of notice for some time.

How is this disrespecting TFU? Please tell me what I am doing wrong, AN?

The other option I was given is if I took those orders to the letter and started laying waste to his worlds in a full seige. That will not help anything but prolonging the entire issue. I am trying to bring closure to this what would be satisfactory, TFU out of the GE and left alone like he wishes.

At current pace I find it in TFU's best interests to take this route. Even if he was able to keep his home world it would be hard pressed to maintain control. Sure the loss of a home world is a big moral kick in the nuts, but its better then being dead.

Case Closed?

Unless I get an IC response or a thread about a trial, I may just leave this be.

Except that in this case it really is whining. TFU is just butthurt that his plan backfired and now the GE is whipping his ass for it.

While there are certainly valid IC reasons to beat on TFU, that does not extend in any way to OOC.

If you are rude and impolite to people, how can you expect them to want to RP with you? Talking down to people and insulting them will never get you anywhere.

There are no valid OOC reasons to beat on TFU? I think a lot of people would beg to differ.

That sword cuts both ways here.

There are no valid OOC reasons to beat on TFU? I think a lot of people would beg to differ.

That sword cuts both ways here.

If you take IC actions for OOC reasons, then you arn't much of an RPer.

If you take IC actions for OOC reasons, then you arn't much of an RPer.

Like he said, the door swings both ways. :p

This entire debate is stupid. If you let the Galactic fucking Empire put a Death Star in orbit over your homeworld immediately after you attempted a coup, you should know damned good and well that your woop is getting shooped.

Quit whining, just roll with it. YOUR PLANET IS DEAAAAAAAAAD!, but so is the Death Star. Everyone can go home now, there's nothing left to see here.

I've been saying this for months. Who in their right mind would join the Galactic Empire? We've all seen the damn movies. It was a move that was to be expected...the Imperials blew up Alderaan after hearing just rumours of their betrayal.

The problem I have is with language being used. It's a game. I learned months ago that there's no reason to take things personally. Ask the other guy before blowing up his homeworld. If he says no, he means it. You can't get a decent roleplay if you're forcing the other guy to do things he doesn't want to do.

Rob should've known something like this was going to happen. On the other hand, Sith should have known that a freedom loving democracy such as the Federal Union was probably going to try and...you know...make the Empire more democratic.

In the end, this is a case of the wrong people associating with each other. The Federal Union should not have joined the Empire for philosophical reasons...and likewise, the Empire should not have admitted them. Ideologically they are bitter enemies. Any society that believes in Freedom or Authoritarianism should not get along with the other.

Unless you're like Hanoi Jane...but how could you live with yourself?

My samurai jedi chihuahua could destroy your death star, those things always have huge flaws in them. He rides in a two seat sportster fusion fighter with an x-ray laser cannon. I would send a couple of them in and blow up the main reactor.

Unless you're like Hanoi Jane...but how could you live with yourself?

It's called alcohol.

If you take IC actions for OOC reasons, then you arn't much of an RPer.
False. If the IC actions still make sense ICly (as in destroying and executing a traitor to the Empire) then I really couldn't care less if you decided to do it because you were pissed at the person for being annoying.

Rob should've known something like this was going to happen. On the other hand, Sith should have known that a freedom loving democracy such as the Federal Union was probably going to try and...you know...make the Empire more democratic.
Obviously, Sith, or at least some people, saw it coming and acted... that is what got this mess going.

My samurai jedi chihuahua could destroy your death star, those things always have huge flaws in them. He rides in a two seat sportster fusion fighter with an x-ray laser cannon. I would send a couple of them in and blow up the main reactor.
I am pretty sure that Sith isn't building these things with the same flaws as the movie.

False. If the IC actions still make sense ICly (as in destroying and executing a traitor to the Empire) then I really couldn't care less if you decided to do it because you were pissed at the person for being annoying..

Oh so I guess roll play Etiquette would not apply to the all powerful ub3r respect points sith and GE people right? because I think axis meant taking ic actions for out of character reasons is bad form and I agree, and it dose not make sense for sith to blow up a world just because the locals we're trying to to welcome him.

Mean while obviously sith is trying to get out of being caught red handed with a lie, with saying "Oh i agreed to it, and oh I talked to him" for the record both are false, Like i said before he promised that he would not do such things but did any way.

Also god for bid I Actually dispute some thing with the GE or oh god like perfect sith right? Its considered "whining " to every one supporting him because they Actually just want to win or be considered all powerful and act like Donald trump all the time. Look I'm not going to bitch about loosing, I'm just saying and stating it could have been done allot better. as in No warping in the Death star with charged super laser and pwnting a home world in one post with out asking. That annoyed me allot,mean while I don't get why every one is rushing to defend this BS because frankly I have never seen such stuff on NS go with out conflict OOCLY say the least, unless it was worked out before hand.

I am pretty sure that Sith isn't building these things with the same flaws as the movie.

So him claiming hes completely 100% cannon like he has always done, is bullshit? interesting he only claims hes cannon when it gives him an "ub3rized" advantage but when it comes to flaws in the death star or other things hes not cannon, I find that funny.

I am really not even bothering with this crap any more.

TFU, when you let the Death Star into your system, and you pissed it off, you should've known Sith was going to try and destroy your homeworld. I mean... gee if he didn't I might've been right mad. It's not a matter of respect, it's a matter of common sense.

You piss off Death Star = Death Star kills you. Tis the way of Emparh.

It's also the reason I don't RP with Unified Sith, I like his writing but I know if ICly I manage to piss him off, I die. And dieing isn't fun. I'm sure you should know that by now.

I haven't said a word in this debate aside from making the thread and telling everyone to go ahead without me in the thread.

Now, as for the tech thing. TFU, it seems a bit hypocritical for you to pull the tech card. You constantly make tech that is EXTREMELY out there, and that is being conservative. I can imagine that after many years of trying they have worked out a good amount of the bugs. He claims Canon, yes, but it makes sense he has had to make the changes since all the Empire canon tech doesn't hold a candle to the crap the NS has.