NationStates Jolt Archive


Operation Roman Shield ATTN Greston

Gataway
26-06-2007, 03:58
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l255/rtpayton17/cha-arms-1.jpg

Official Imperial Message to Greston government

Following actions of your troops in the field of battle and the believed desire that you wish to occupy and hold areas of The Latin People's sovereign land the Imperial Government has authorized the use of Military force against you.


Open Sea heading towards Greston

3rd battle group,the same battle group which had only hours ago been holding off the coast of TLP fighting against the communist uprising was now roaring directly towards Greston..the sizable armada was roaring ahead at top speed through the relatively calm seas..the fifty-thousand imperial marines were anxiously awaiting their deployment..they were to join with 4th battle group which had another fifty-thousand marines.


ooc:Seeing as you have a defense budget of 0 dollars..Im quite confident a mere 100,000 infantry with armor and air support can roll over your local police forces and citizenry...if you wish to discuss terms of your surrender TG me.
Gens Romae
26-06-2007, 05:31
OOC: How do you look up incomes and stuff like that?
Gataway
26-06-2007, 07:01
ooc: There are several NS calculators

This is NS Dossier the most accepted version of calculator that most storefronts will look at when you place an order, and the most widely used calculator for other RP purposes..since the old NS calculator seems to have died

http://nsdossier.texasregion.net/main.aspx

This is the Sunset calculator...less accepted and less used..some storefronts wont even accept this calculator..

http://www.sunsetrpg.com/economystatistics.php?nation=Gataway

Both calculators offer different numbers for all the categories, as previously stated NS Dossier is considered to be more realistic and accepted..In this case both calculators show Greston as having a defense budget of 0 meaning he cant buy new military equipment...and he can't train or arm any standing military what so ever, this includes an air force or navy spec ops teams etc etc..There is no Greston military...and since I have initiated this RP it is in fluid time meaning for the duration of the RP Greston has a defense budget of 0 and he can not suddenly raise an army... he can conscript citizens but they will be very poorly armed and have little to no training...he does however have 329,123,674,409.58 in his law and order budget so he can train police forces..however a police swat team will be no match for an armored division with air superiority...I have a current defense budget of nearly 2 trillion dollars. And you Gens have a defense budget of 10 billion or so
Gens Romae
26-06-2007, 07:12
There is no Greston military...and since I have initiated this RP it is in fluid time meaning for the duration of the RP Greston has a defense budget of 0 and he can not suddenly raise an army... he can conscript citizens but they will be very poorly armed and have little to no training...he does however have 329,123,674,409.58 in his law and order budget so he can train police forces..however a police swat team will be no match for an armored division with air superiority...I have a current defense budget of nearly 2 trillion dollars. And you Gens have a defense budget of 10 billion or so

OOC: Yes...10 billion or so. I went ahead and updated my army. I think the way it is is much better thought out. It should be on page one, if you'll look at it. I divided it up by military division.

That said Greston has a large amount of government waste. Perhaps that is what he is using to create an army? If not, perhaps his police force is similar in nature to an army? Who knows? Ah well.

Anyway, do you mind if I join in the rp?
Gataway
26-06-2007, 07:19
ooc: I suppose you can join..its a general rule that only defense budget funds can be used for military training/equipment..government waist is exactly that waist..you can't use a deficit for funds...and even if he did use his law n order budget of 300 billion he wouldn't be able to have many planes..almost no navy..and very few armored vehicles..it would be more of a tiny bump in my military's path...
Gens Romae
26-06-2007, 07:24
Official Message to Gataway from the Roman Empire

The Roman government is aware of the war declaration against the nation of Greston. While Rome currently has interest neither in the nation of TLP nor in Greston's actions, she currently is pursuing alliance relations with fellow Corporatist States. She therefore offers military assistance to the Empire of Gataway in her endeavours against Greston.

OOC: If you don't mind, I'd like an opinion in the Gens Romae reveils her army thread.
Gataway
26-06-2007, 07:35
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l255/rtpayton17/cha-arms-1.jpg

Official Imperial Message to the Roman Empire

The Imperial government accepts your offers of support and looks forward to building further friendly relations between our two nations


Emperor Nadov III of Gataway
Vontanas
26-06-2007, 16:26
OOC: I'd like to protest. Calculators aren't the be all end all. For example, I might want to dump trillions into my military for an RPing war, but I have to wait for the issues. Basically what I'm saying is that the calculators can't represent RPing, and honestly I don't know of many people that RP how the calculators tell them. The only calculator I use is this one. (http://www.calculator.com/pantaserv/makecalc) Plug in your GDP per Capita, multiply by your total population to get your GDP. Divide the GDP by your tax rate to get your government budget, and divide by the percentages of the budgets you want to get your budget numbers.
Gataway
26-06-2007, 17:36
ooc: Thats funny because time and time again I see people using calculators to protest someone having a certain number of ships or planes etc etc..so I suppose I will just continuously keep using my 2 trillion dollars to buy hundreds of ships or w/e every day since that counts as 1 NS year and your budget is "replenished" after that so I'll just buy like 500 SD's that I would never actually be able to maintain but apparently I've been being lied to all this time since calculators obviously mean nothing.
Dostanuot Loj
26-06-2007, 17:47
OOC: Calculators are a guide, and a lazy way to get a budget. A number of people just do their own budgets and they are certianly better then any calculator, but in the end the calculator is a guide. It's an easy way to go "That isn't right!" on something. It keeps month old nations from buying a billion battleships or something stupid.

And no you can't keep buying SDs so often, anyone around who operates a storefront thyat sells SDs will refuse sale after you try and buy so much, they realise things like upkeep costs and all that, and a budget calculator isn't needed to know that you can't spend all your money on something because then you can't use, maintain, or crew it.
Gens Romae
26-06-2007, 17:52
OOC: SD? What's an SD?

Whatever the case, I'll post my rp post whenever Greston does.
McPsychoville
26-06-2007, 17:56
OOC: Just a couple of things.

1) I'd agree that calculators aren't the be all and end all, but they provide a sensible guideline to follow. If Greston does indeed have zero defense budget, the implication is that that was by choice, by the way he chose the responses to the issues.

2) HOWEVER, by that tack this thread doesn't make any sense. The only reason I can think of for a nation declaring to another that they are prepared to use military action against the latter nation when they know the latter nation is completely defenseless is simply wankage. For shame.
Lord Sumguy
26-06-2007, 18:21
OOC: how can they have actions on the battlefield if they dont have a military?
Gataway
26-06-2007, 18:22
ooc:its hardly wanking..especially when he's somehow invading someone smaller than him..with open intent to occupy territory. So defending a smaller country is now wanking I will remember that for future references thank you...but I suppose for the sake of RPing I will throw the calculator bit out the window...even though Technically by most peoples established rules I don't HAVE to...

I have No idea how they do anything with no military budget...Sumguy...

And I must say that I find the level of Hypocrisy on NS to be appalling..

Lastly obviously the storefronts don't check such things as Greston went and bought a massive carrier group with money he doesn't have, which I know for a fact the storefronts use calculators and are probably one of the main reasons calculators exist in the first place..... anyways It would be easy if I wanted to to simply buy a few Sd's here...then go to another store and buy some more...and come back in a few days and buy more sd's from the first place..
Maldorians
26-06-2007, 18:42
http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/maldorians.jpg

Maldorian Message to Gens Romae
Stay out of this war. It is between Gataway and Greston. If you insist on sending troops, then you will be invaded. Consider this a warning.

The Mandalore.
Greston
26-06-2007, 18:59
OOC: I am choosing to ignore this. You have tons of time taken land, then the one time I do it you declare war on me. So I'm am ignoring it, meaning you can't do anything.
Kampfers
26-06-2007, 19:03
OOC: I am choosing to ignore this. You have tons of time taken land, then the one time I do it you declare war on me. So I'm am ignoring it, meaning you can't do anything.

OOC: You can do that, but that is a really gay way to escape. If you don't want fall-out, then don't invade. Gataway had pledged his support to the nation that you invaded. Now face the consequences like a man.
Gataway
26-06-2007, 19:06
ooc: LOL because of my previous military expansions you use that as grounds for Ignore..thats the most retarded thing I've ever heard in my life ...thats like France saying to Germany...well you already annexed Austria and Czechoslovakia..so we're just going to ignore you invading us...
Greston
26-06-2007, 19:22
OOC: Just go to hell, this isn't RL so if I want to ignore it I can. So go ahead and say I am gay and retarded. But I know who the real retard is here.
Gataway
26-06-2007, 19:28
ooc: for the record I didn't call you retarded you're reasoning for an ignore however is a retarded one...
Vontanas
26-06-2007, 19:33
OOC: The Ignore option is there for bad RP'ers, who godmod in some way or another. A prime example would be Hataria, who RPed having a giant navy and never took any casualties. Indeed, using the Ignore option without good reason is godmodding itself. Face the consequences of your actions.
Kampfers
26-06-2007, 19:33
OOC: Greston, your lucky it is someone his size invading you. He is not all that much bigger than you. A month ago, Blackhelm and his Griffencrest Corporation invaded me. Theres a size disparity... ?But did I ignore him? No! And eventually I won (well, someone payed a ransom and he went off to invade someone else, but hey, we were pwning him).
Romandeos
26-06-2007, 19:33
OOC:

Ho there! There's no need to be calling people foul names and all that.

Greston, when you invade a country, you must expect some fallout, and maybe that fallout will involve being invaded yourself, but that's no reason to ignore the person invading you.

Ignoring somebody without good reasoning could be seen as a Godmod.

Having said that, Gataway, perhaps you should have tried to work this out in private conversation with Greston before you posted. This whole unpleasant argument could have been avoided.

~ Romandeos.
Greston
26-06-2007, 19:36
OOC: Screw the ignore, I'll fight, only if you don't accept my peace offer.
Gataway
26-06-2007, 19:37
I didnt call anyone a foul name...and actually due to a previous incident involving an alliance Greston was in and an Alliance I was in..Greston has been aware of my IC bad relations...with his nation...
Romandeos
26-06-2007, 19:38
I didnt call anyone a foul name...

OOC:

Didn't say you had, now, did I?

In any case, it seems Greston is prepared to lift his Ignore.

~ Romandeos.
Greston
26-06-2007, 19:42
Actually I left the Heg, before the stuff between our alliances started. Only they wouldn't let me leave because I was the vice leader.
Gataway
26-06-2007, 19:50
well I suggest you think of something fast..you already have 2 million soldiers deployed far off in TLP...its gonna cost you a lot of equipment/supplies and manpower to maintain that force..and you have 100,000 of my troops plus a sizable fleet heading towards you..which actually would be off your coast right now...
Greston
26-06-2007, 20:01
"HA! 100,000 infantry men. Oh this is great. We could wipe them all out. Only 2,000,000 men are in TLP and we have a military of 29,000,000 men. We only have 27 million but it will do. Lt.Gov. Greyu make sure that the firts thing they find out about Greston is that we have a nice military. Have 2 companies of Jaguars, 3 companies of Black Eagles, and 7 companies of TM-3s meet them at the bay. As for the fleet, I think a slight bombardment will do." "Yes sir."
Greston
26-06-2007, 20:07
Officail Message to Gens Romae:
If we see any type of military presence from your nation near ours. We will take their lives just as quikly as you did to those people in TLP. So if a Naval Fleet of yours is seen patrolling our nation we will sink it.
Naasha
26-06-2007, 20:08
OOC: 29 million men? *splutters tea*, that's like, 5% of your population.
Kampfers
26-06-2007, 20:09
OOC: 29 million men? *splutters tea*, that's like, 20% of your population.

OOC: Actually, its 20.37931%... WTF?

EDIT: Actually, I'm a retard, and did my calculations wrong. It comes out to: 4.906937%. And I use the calculator on my computer.
Naasha
26-06-2007, 20:12
OOC: Actually, its 20.37931%... WTF?

OOC: I lost my calculator, too lazy to open the windows one. And my brain hurts if I do decimals in my head!
Gataway
26-06-2007, 20:14
"HA! 100,000 infantry men. Oh this is great. We could wipe them all out. Only 2,000,000 men are in TLP and we have a military of 29,000,000 men. We only have 27 million but it will do. Lt.Gov. Greyu make sure that the firts thing they find out about Greston is that we have a nice military. Have 2 companies of Jaguars, 3 companies of Black Eagles, and 7 companies of TM-3s meet them at the bay. As for the fleet, I think a slight bombardment will do." "Yes sir."

Yea...1. You have 2 million people deployed already.. Thats gonna drain your economy alone..furthermore..Its gonna put a lot of stress on your remaining military to simply supply that many men...and keep them able to fight and using 5% of your population to fight for a long period of time is going to cripple your economy rather quickly.....but if you want to go bankrupt thats fine by me it'll just make conquering you that much easier...I don't think your soldiers will fight long when the government cant afford to feed or pay them..not to mention I haven't posted ICily where my fleet is...and I'm not stupid enough to move them into range of coastal defenses at the very beginning of a conflict...

5% of 591 million is 29 550 000...thats Grestons total population...591 million

meanwhile 3% of my population is 27 million...so I match him without hurting my economy or over straining my military..
Greston
26-06-2007, 20:17
OOC:I knew it was too big, then what the fuck is wrong with my calulator!
Gens Romae
26-06-2007, 20:24
IC:

Throughout the entire world, there is broadcasted via internet, and television pictures of the (presumably male) ruler of Greston wearing a very sexy dress and kissing a man (obviously photoshopped).

Below the photograph is written: "The Roman Dictator knows what you've been doing!"
Greston
26-06-2007, 20:24
OOC: I am putting it down to 4% making my full military 21,000,000. But right now I am using 2% making it 11,820,000. And I am not taking the people in TLP back yet.
Gataway
26-06-2007, 20:24
ooc: its at 5%...thats around the max you can have Greston..the thing is you already deployed a very large number of troops which is going to cost lots of money and equipment and manpower to keep such a large force supplied..also Im not going to simply let 2 million soldiers make it back into Greston...infafct I'd hope to catch them in their troop transports so I can kill them off easier..
Greston
26-06-2007, 20:26
ooc: its at 5%...thats around the max you can have Greston..the thing is you already deployed a very large number of troops which is going to cost lots of money and equipment and manpower to keep such a large force supplied..

OOC: read the post above
Gataway
26-06-2007, 20:29
ooc: I just did...Im waiting for your peace proposal bit..
Naasha
26-06-2007, 20:32
OOC: The thing is that even at 4% of your population, your soldiers are going to be poorly trained and equipped. I would expect about 2% like you said, because that is the utmost highest level you could keep in peacetime.
Gens Romae
26-06-2007, 20:32
OOC: I am putting it down to 4% making my full military 21,000,000. But right now I am using 2% making it 11,820,000. And I am not taking the people in TLP back yet.

OOC: Greston, you aren't taking logistics into account. This is the way I've heard it explained to me: You can have up to 5 percent of your total nation as an army. However, 90 percent of that is logistics. So only 1/200 of your total nation size is actual fighting men.

For you, a nation of about 520 million, that's...2.6 million actual fighting men, and that's aircraft crews, naval crews, infantry, etc.
Greston
26-06-2007, 20:38
To: The Government of The Armed Imperial Kingdom of Gataway
From: The Parliment of The Republic of Greston
Subject: RE Operation Roman Shield
The Republic of Greston had thought of you out to be a respected nation, and ally, and a good nation. Yet you seek out to destroy us for things you regulary do. Because of our former Hegmony statuswe have been hated. Yet we have done nothing. Why must bloodshed evolve from Lord Sumguy's ignorance, and why should war break out for this? Let the people of Greston, and Gataway, rest, without knowing that somewhere their brothers, and fathers, and sons are fighting in a war. Stop the bloodshed, and let us come to an agreement on how to forget our hatred towards one another and become allies.
Michael Check
Greston
26-06-2007, 20:41
OOC: The thing is that even at 4% of your population, your soldiers are going to be poorly trained and equipped. I would expect about 2% like you said, because that is the utmost highest level you could keep in peacetime.

That is why I have it at 2%, 4% is the highest we will go from now on never 5%
Lord Sumguy
26-06-2007, 21:05
Actually I left the Heg, before the stuff between our alliances started. Only they wouldn't let me leave because I was the vice leader.

OOC: actually, you TG'ed me that you were leaving and then begged me to let you back in a few hours later....

i hate to say i told you so, but i warned you against being too expansionistic and warmongering.
Greston
27-06-2007, 00:42
OOC: The People of Sumguy gave the vice hegemon to me, so I had to
Gataway
27-06-2007, 05:07
Message to Government of Greston

The Imperial Kingdom will accept an envoy to hear your last bids for peace.

Gatawan Foreign Ministry