NationStates Jolt Archive

This is utter bull. One, you've got 100 ships of a fairly badass navy beating you about the head and neck with weapons that make planets cry. Two, you have yet more Telrosi hammering you with weapons of similar magnitude, and then the Angori, who are also beating you, with weapons of an unknown assumption of power. You are outnumbered in this more than 20 to one by my task force alone. By sheer numbers, you should be grabbing your ankles and begging for mercy. You're simply ignoring things for lolpwn, with no excuse. Yeah, they're battleships. Battleships facing Heavy Cruisers that have them outnumbered 5:1, not nearly a fair ratio for the BBs.

Next issue. Welcome to space. Space is big. Very big. Ranges are long, in the tens of thousands of km. If not longer. Attempting to stop me shooting at the ship means you have to be able to stop me seeing it. Hooray line of sight weaponry, and not dogfighting with capships.

Basically, you're very much bordering on godmodding like you just started RPing(big surprise there), and it's rather annoying, not to mention childish. Just go with the flow, and don't try to curbstomp. We've all been around longer, despite your 04 join date, at least accept that a BB is a BB, and that your dreadpenis isn't all that impressive. I can do that too.

This is utter bull. One, you've got 100 ships of a fairly badass navy beating you about the head and neck with weapons that make planets cry.

"Badass" navy, eh? Is that a comment I'm suppose to take seriously? And planets are anatomically incapable of crying. Nevertheless, my ships have been losing shield status if you've noticed, despite the high technological fortification they provide.

Two, you have yet more Telrosi hammering you with weapons of similar magnitude, and then the Angori, who are also beating you, with weapons of an unknown assumption of power. You are outnumbered in this more than 20 to one by my task force alone.

There is a reason why I fight with so few ships in a given battlescene. The shielding and firepower possessed by one Vzxlackian battleship is enough to make up for a lack of gargantuan numbers in much smaller, squishier ships.

Part of me wonders where you're getting all of these people to man your zillion billion ships, and why they're leaving other areas of your borders unguarded.

By sheer numbers, you should be grabbing your ankles and begging for mercy. You're simply ignoring things for lolpwn, with no excuse.

This from someone who describes their navy as "badass."

Yeah, they're battleships. Battleships facing Heavy Cruisers that have them outnumbered 5:1, not nearly a fair ratio for the BBs.

They're also battleships of a civilization your confederate empire has never seen before. Their technological superiority in generating destructive and defensive energy makes them more formidable than your average Terran grown dreadnought.

To put things in perspective using examples from a familiar Sci-Fi franchise, StarGate.... Imagine a Ha'Taak class ship put up against a Wraith Hiveship. Which has more obviously powerful weaponry and shielding? Which came from a more advanced civilization?

Vzxlack had been developing an early spacefaring civilization on the other side of the galaxy long before humans crawled down from the trees.

Next issue. Welcome to space. Space is big. Very big. Ranges are long, in the tens of thousands of km. If not longer. Attempting to stop me shooting at the ship means you have to be able to stop me seeing it. Hooray line of sight weaponry, and not dogfighting with capships.

Four ships in the way of your capital ship's concentrated fire, while the fifth chills underneath and blasts at anything smaller beneath it. Go phalanx formations. Hoorray.

Basically, you're very much bordering on godmodding like you just started RPing(big surprise there), and it's rather annoying, not to mention childish.

No... god moding would not even be accepting damage and stating that each of my weapons instantly destroy your ships. Also, I've probably been RPing long before you even knew what the term meant.

Just go with the flow, and don't try to curbstomp. We've all been around longer, despite your 04 join date, at least accept that a BB is a BB,

Once upon a time, long ago in 2003, I founded Vzxlack. I posted many a day in the NS forums in FT RPs. Then one day my computer craps out from a malicious form of spyware that not even SpyBot or McAffee Antivirus can seem to find and remove. Go inactive for a month, and my nation dies. I come back, resurrect (Lazarus was nice btw, but I wanted my region back), and get assigned a '04 join date.

As you can see, I've actually been around longer than all three of you (check my 7+ billion population to test my age). And I know what I'm doing. You would have been slaughtered if I fielded as many ships as you did in this battle.

and that your dreadpenis isn't all that impressive. I can do that too.

Is this relevant at all?

*Whistles*
...yeah, I'd say this was needed. I probably should have started one when the numbers started rising; sorry about that.

First of all, let's keep the discussion calm. I don't want IC disagreements to build into bad feelings and interfere with the RP. Now, on to the actual discussion...

the Angori, who are also beating you, with weapons of an unknown assumption of power

I leave it vague intentionally, by the way. That way I can let it fit the general level appropriate for the thread/battle I'm in. There are people who, if given a number, will simply add a zero and say "Well, mine can do this!" Just assume the weapons have about the power output you'd expect from ships of the given size built by an advanced civilization.

By sheer numbers, you should be grabbing your ankles and begging for mercy.

A point, but numbers aren't everything - quality over quantity is a valid strategy. One Facehuggerian dreadnought could probably wipe the floor with everything present in this battle, for example. And Demonic Gophers, for cultural reasons, build nothing but super-dreadnoughts; the three I'm looking for in "Find Them!" are half the Demgori war fleet. The sort of quality edge needed to offset a large numerical advantage, however, requires either a vast size difference or considerable technological superiority.

Part of me wonders where you're getting all of these people to man your zillion billion ships, and why they're leaving other areas of your borders unguarded.

Depends on how large a crew the ships require, yes? And a large, powerful, abundantly hostile battle fleet inside of one's territory seems reason enough to pull ships away from quieter parts of the border.

Their technological superiority in generating destructive and defensive energy makes them more formidable than your average Terran grown dreadnought.

Assuming they have such a technological advantage. Terran ships could be from any time before the death of Sol, with the timeline in II as indeterminate as it is.

Four ships in the way of your capital ship's concentrated fire, while the fifth chills underneath and blasts at anything smaller beneath it. Go phalanx formations. Hoorray.

You have four ships to block an infinite number of directions. All the other vessels need to do is fire from an angle between two of your blockers, unless they're so close together that their hulls are practically touching. Even then, attackers can go 'below' your formation easily enough, and be in no more danger than anywhere else within range of your ships.

As you can see, I've actually been around longer than all three of you (check my 7+ billion population to test my age).

Well, if we're gonna bring that up, my oldest nation has 7.461 billion people in it, and I think it was DEAT for inactivity longer than a month, though I'm not certain of the timing. I've been around a while myself.

I'm not involved, just observing. However, I will note one thing: technological superiority as a valid aspect of your nation is something that must be agreed upon beforehand. One cannot assume that quality > quantity routes are going to be accepted in the way one intends with the commencement of an RP.

Does that mean I disagree with the sentiment? No. I believe in quality ships for my nation as well, but there are some factors that ought to be taken into account when someone using this playing style is encountered.

First: Do they have a low number of ships to correspond to the amount of quality each ship is imbued with? If yes, then fine. If no, then issues arise. This is probably the most important factor because, as a general rule, things of higher quality appear in less quantity. Therefore, not only as an act of adhering to the tenets of economic reality, but also as a way to have gameplay balance, people who claim their ships are technologically superior to others have less over all.

I myself have 204. The average for someone my size is 5,218. The gains in power come at a loss in number.

Second: Economics. Especially if it is determined that the player has a high number of quality ships, it must be asked if they've tanked their economy to achieve this end. After all, the basics of economics will tell you that something that has a higher rate of investment than something else is usually of better quality, usually. This means that you acknowledge that each ship is very precious, and the loss of one may be comparable to the loss of an entire fleet for someone else.*

Third: Strengths v. weaknesses. It is generally implied that stronger ships, for all their power, still have weaknesses. One of those being lightly touched on just a moment ago: resources; the loss of a quality ship means more than the loss of quantity ship. This means that not only are your ships more expensive to protect them, but that they are also more cautious in battle, and you're not so apt to deploy them.

Another is maneuverability; it is generally accepted that big strong ships are slower than smaller weaker ships. Though this is not universal and could not possibly apply to all situations depending on the way that the RPer created his ships. However, a tendency is still followed: that for all these strengths, the quantity player may still exploit loopholes in the quality player as a consequence of his choice of play style.

This system, is of course, no where near universal, nor do I claim it just or correct. However, this system has evolved to some degree of acceptance since I have witnessed it in all my time in II. It exists for gameplay reasons as well as those associated with simplicity; it's much easy to work things out with a basic set of rules governing such subjects than it is working from scratch each and every time.

This means, then, that the issue between 'the allies' and Vzx stem from a general lack of communication as well as a lack of firm ground rules to regulate events as they happen in this RP. From my perspective this is what is happening, that is; the OP may not give a fuck one way or the other and may even think I am totally full of shit. Yet, I figure if this could somehow be constructive I ought to say it.

So therein are my two-cents.

*Note: Post scarcity economics fudges this a little, but this system in which I speak is the one most used by the people who RP in this forum at least to a loose degree.

"Badass" navy, eh? Is that a comment I'm suppose to take seriously? And planets are anatomically incapable of crying. Nevertheless, my ships have been losing shield status if you've noticed, despite the high technological fortification they provide.



There is a reason why I fight with so few ships in a given battlescene. The shielding and firepower possessed by one Vzxlackian battleship is enough to make up for a lack of gargantuan numbers in much smaller, squishier ships.

Part of me wonders where you're getting all of these people to man your zillion billion ships, and why they're leaving other areas of your borders unguarded.



This from someone who describes their navy as "badass."



They're also battleships of a civilization your confederate empire has never seen before. Their technological superiority in generating destructive and defensive energy makes them more formidable than your average Terran grown dreadnought.

To put things in perspective using examples from a familiar Sci-Fi franchise, StarGate.... Imagine a Ha'Taak class ship put up against a Wraith Hiveship. Which has more obviously powerful weaponry and shielding? Which came from a more advanced civilization?

Vzxlack had been developing an early spacefaring civilization on the other side of the galaxy long before humans crawled down from the trees.



Four ships in the way of your capital ship's concentrated fire, while the fifth chills underneath and blasts at anything smaller beneath it. Go phalanx formations. Hoorray.



No... god moding would not even be accepting damage and stating that each of my weapons instantly destroy your ships. Also, I've probably been RPing long before you even knew what the term meant.



Once upon a time, long ago in 2003, I founded Vzxlack. I posted many a day in the NS forums in FT RPs. Then one day my computer craps out from a malicious form of spyware that not even SpyBot or McAffee Antivirus can seem to find and remove. Go inactive for a month, and my nation dies. I come back, resurrect (Lazarus was nice btw, but I wanted my region back), and get assigned a '04 join date.

As you can see, I've actually been around longer than all three of you (check my 7+ billion population to test my age). And I know what I'm doing. You would have been slaughtered if I fielded as many ships as you did in this battle.



Is this relevant at all?

You'd prefer maybe a more descriptive term? I'm unmoved. It's been descruibed using a word for which everyone has at least some reference.

Next... Your ships are only losing shields, wanker. 600cm graser, big honking weapon of fairly mass destruction. "Your entire fleets weaponry blips my shields, and does a little scarring to my armor. I return fire, you all die." Way to totally not Godmod.

I field something in the realm of 3,000 ships(bit over, but that's neither here nor there). There are a combined 130 capitol and supercapitol classes in service. Agamemnon is one, Virginia is another There are frankly assloads oif Destroyers floating around. It's a fairly balanced navy, and gets whatever sort of arbitrary bonus you desire for having less than the 4 and change I could have.

Non sequitor. I use terms that aren't of a technical nature, so my ships must not be as good as I'd like to say they are. Real brilliant reasoning buddy. You've still got 100 ships firing into the UNARMORED GUTS of a battleship. It should be making very nice fireworks displays.

By your reasoning "They're ships of a civilization your Vzxlackian Empire has never seen before. Their technological superiority in generating destructive and defensive energy makes them more formidable than your average Vzxlackian Dreadnought."

Terrans, and the Solari, have been advancing faster. Hooray parity through arbitrary statements.

I'm not sure you understand the concepts of "3 dimensional space" and "maneuver warfare". For the uninformed among us, that means that you are a static position in space, which c an be maneuvered against from any direction I desire, since YOU already established that your BBs are cumbersome bastards, whereas I treat mine as Fast Battleships. You cannot move your ships fast enough to always have them between me and the wounded ship, which I can pick off from well beyond anything like the ranges you seem to be assuming.

Actually, you can Godmod simply by effectively ignoring damage(a la Hataria) until confronted with something so massive you can't ignore it anymore. "My shields take all your damage, and when you aim for where shots have obviously been getting through my supposedly godlike shields to scar the hull, I ignore that too." Brilliant.

Back in the bad old days of 05, I founded a nation. Since then it's been deleted. Twice. Kept all 6'000+ post count, kept same join date. Unless you're doing something very odd, you're an 04. Probably late 04 since you're still working on your eighth billion. I stand corrected, I checked your ZOMG 7.048 Billion population. You're a really late 04. And, unless you know some magic by which to erase posts, you've only come onto Jolt in the last couple months or so. To the point that this is your first RP on Jolt. In the last 3 years. I'm remaining unimpressed by your size or age, since you have demonstrably been RPing on jolt for less time than any of us. Probably including Angelic Gophers, since I think I remember actually seeing a nation of Demonic Gophers back when.

We can test that theory if you like. Deploy your fleet. We'll giggle at you, and treat its numbers no differently than we're treating your Battleships. With scorn. You can't claim qualitative superiority with no basis. Unless those are practically your only 5 battleships, which they aren't.

Yup. You're fairly drooling over that steel penis. None of us are impressed, we can all replicate it, or better it, with less waste of materials than a 20km Dreadnought. Yes, this means that you are in fact still acting like Hataria. Nice.

Assuming they have such a technological advantage. Terran ships could be from any time before the death of Sol, with the timeline in II as indeterminate as it is.

Or after it. Terran being an adjective and not a designator of place of origin. My people ARE Terrans, they are FROM Korpulu, or the fairly unimaginatively named "Solarin Space", if they're Solari.

And yeah, I just realized you totally confirmed the vague recollections I mentioned earlier.

For Neut:

Communication is hampered by an inability to do the standard MSN Convos of II. It happens.

You have four ships to block an infinite number of directions. All the other vessels need to do is fire from an angle between two of your blockers, unless they're so close together that their hulls are practically touching.

The shielding of those blocking ships also helps, as they are standard bubble fare and not the hull wrap we see in Star Wars tech.

Even then, attackers can go 'below' your formation easily enough, and be in no more danger than anywhere else within range of your ships.

This has been acknowledged. Why do you think I gave you a nice gut of my lowest deck? Also considering its shields are still quite operable (though quite low now... another pass should be able to set up "fireworks" as the crybaby puts it), its survivability is retained.

First: Do they have a low number of ships to correspond to the amount of quality each ship is imbued with? If yes, then fine. If no, then issues arise. This is probably the most important factor because, as a general rule, things of higher quality appear in less quantity. Therefore, not only as an act of adhering to the tenets of economic reality, but also as a way to have gameplay balance, people who claim their ships are technologically superior to others have less over all.

I've always sent in low numbers of ships into battles. And yes, each ship is quite precious, being like a fleet all in its own.

Second: Economics. Especially if it is determined that the player has a high number of quality ships, it must be asked if they've tanked their economy to achieve this end.

Tanked like madness. I spend a lot on defense and police with Vzxlack. With a species as bent on universal domination as them... is it any wonder?

Another is maneuverability; it is generally accepted that big strong ships are slower than smaller weaker ships. Though this is not universal and could not possibly apply to all situations depending on the way that the RPer created his ships.

I'd call bullshit if a person built a 4 kilometer ship and stated it could turn perfect right angles and zig zag like a TIE fighter across the battlefied.

And now here's the crybaby himself.

Next... Your ships are only losing shields, wanker.

And one is starting to lose hull as well. Another few shots should have the thing significantly crippled. But you seem to think more ships equals instant destruction.

Sorry, but you don't decide when my ships die.

600cm graser, big honking weapon of fairly mass destruction. "Your entire fleets weaponry blips my shields, and does a little scarring to my armor. I return fire, you all die." Way to totally not Godmod.

Are you describing yourself? Because that's precisely how you've been playing out your part of the battle. You've even ignored the damage that you'd realistically suffer by being swarmed by 4500 fighters.

Trust me... fighters are never irrelevant and turning your own argument against you, you're dramatically outnumbered by the fighters. Realistically, your cruisers alone would have to fend off the fighters with their weapons systems as they try to defend. Also take note, before you argue again, you've launched no fighters of your own either, so you're doubly screwed in that respect.

I field something in the realm of 3,000 ships(bit over, but that's neither here nor there). There are a combined 130 capitol and supercapitol classes in service. Agamemnon is one, Virginia is another There are frankly assloads oif Destroyers floating around. It's a fairly balanced navy, and gets whatever sort of arbitrary bonus you desire for having less than the 4 and change I could have.

Balanced navies have fighters, which I've seen none of from you. You're just a bunch of armored ships with no cover. Easily exploitable.

Non sequitor. I use terms that aren't of a technical nature, so my ships must not be as good as I'd like to say they are. Real brilliant reasoning buddy. You've still got 100 ships firing into the UNARMORED GUTS of a battleship. It should be making very nice fireworks displays.

No, I have a 100 ships shooting at 5 high powered battleships with heavy shields and hull armor. It would be ludicrous to even suggest that a hundred vessels could all shoot at one 2 kilometer object without colliding into each other or accidentally shoot at each other. 3-dimensional or not, your ships can't phase through each other.

By your reasoning "They're ships of a civilization your Vzxlackian Empire has never seen before. Their technological superiority in generating destructive and defensive energy makes them more formidable than your average Vzxlackian Dreadnought."

Terrans, and the Solari, have been advancing faster. Hooray parity through arbitrary statements.

Sadly, you're mistaking. Vzxlackian scout vessels have been observing your edge of the galaxy for some time now, long before Jolt was the official NS board.

I'm not sure you understand the concepts of "3 dimensional space" and "maneuver warfare". For the uninformed among us, that means that you are a static position in space, which c an be maneuvered against from any direction I desire, since YOU already established that your BBs are cumbersome bastards, whereas I treat mine as Fast Battleships. You cannot move your ships fast enough to always have them between me and the wounded ship, which I can pick off from well beyond anything like the ranges you seem to be assuming.

I have my battleships between my wounded vessel and your main 2 and a half kilometer capital ship convoy. And sorry, but ships that size don't get to zip around the battlefield. And if you're not providing cover for it with other ships, well then... your capital ship is screwed from the fighters plaguing it.

Actually, you can Godmod simply by effectively ignoring damage

I haven't.

until confronted with something so massive you can't ignore it anymore. "My shields take all your damage, and when you aim for where shots have obviously been getting through my supposedly godlike shields to scar the hull, I ignore that too." Brilliant.

You mean when Telros opened fire at one of the four ships that wasn't wounded and still had enough shielding to deflect? Yes. Chances are, his attack isn't going to go through, especially if I'm to remain consistent about the shield power.

Back in the bad old days of 05, I founded a nation. Since then it's been deleted. Twice. Kept all 6'000+ post count, kept same join date. Unless you're doing something very odd, you're an 04. Probably late 04 since you're still working on your eighth billion. I stand corrected, I checked your ZOMG 7.048 Billion population. You're a really late 04. And, unless you know some magic by which to erase posts, you've only come onto Jolt in the last couple months or so. To the point that this is your first RP on Jolt. In the last 3 years. I'm remaining unimpressed by your size or age, since you have demonstrably been RPing on jolt for less time than any of us.

Long ago, before the boards were on Jolt, we had the old bb Boards on the NS server. When a nation died, his board account went with him. Perhaps if you bothered to search the archives, you'd find some of my old posts which are now devoid of an author name.

Here, I'll do the work for you. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/search.php?searchid=763103) And surprise! the earliest date back to '03. :upyours:

We can test that theory if you like. Deploy your fleet. We'll giggle at you, and treat its numbers no differently than we're treating your Battleships. With scorn. You can't claim qualitative superiority with no basis. Unless those are practically your only 5 battleships, which they aren't.

By "we" you mean "you," and by "scorn" you mean "bitching like a whiny little bitch."

Or after it. Terran being an adjective and not a designator of place of origin. My people ARE Terrans, they are FROM Korpulu, or the fairly unimaginatively named "Solarin Space", if they're Solari.

Actually, Terran means the ancestry comes from Terra, also known as Earth.

This is utter bull. One, you've got 100 ships of a fairly badass navy beating you about the head and neck with weapons that make planets cry. Two, you have yet more Telrosi hammering you with weapons of similar magnitude, and then the Angori, who are also beating you, with weapons of an unknown assumption of power. You are outnumbered in this more than 20 to one by my task force alone. By sheer numbers, you should be grabbing your ankles and begging for mercy. You're simply ignoring things for lolpwn, with no excuse. Yeah, they're battleships. Battleships facing Heavy Cruisers that have them outnumbered 5:1, not nearly a fair ratio for the BBs.

Next issue. Welcome to space. Space is big. Very big. Ranges are long, in the tens of thousands of km. If not longer. Attempting to stop me shooting at the ship means you have to be able to stop me seeing it. Hooray line of sight weaponry, and not dogfighting with capships.

Basically, you're very much bordering on godmodding like you just started RPing(big surprise there), and it's rather annoying, not to mention childish. Just go with the flow, and don't try to curbstomp. We've all been around longer, despite your 04 join date, at least accept that a BB is a BB, and that your dreadpenis isn't all that impressive. I can do that too.

My suggestion is that if you're still losing to this fleet, you get a little more creative. I've been reading the thread so far and it's basically just a slug fest. Adapt your tactics.

Stagnation is death. Adapt or die.

Stop whining and adapt, MM. You seem to be complaining simply because you arn't being handed an easy win.

I'm running out of tactics. "Engage them individually and keep them on their toes" "Shields kinda flicker, and I laugh at your efforts"

"Use missile batteries, and target the fighters too" "Shields kinda flicker and I laugh at your efforts"

"Target where it looks like his shields aren't stopping shots from getting through" "Shields kinda flicker, and I laugh at your efforts"

"Target one ship with everything I have" "Damn, guess I better take some token damage. I'll let them gut my lower decks, and put a token hole in my armor."

Maneuver to avoid damage. According to him I can't, it's impossible to maneuver 100 ships in a massive empty void, and still have them all targeting a 2km object. New to me...

Take some losses, maybe he'll stop being a dick and take a reasonable amount of damage from the 96 ships that are targeting him. Nope, just kinda strokes himself some more.

No matter my tactic, it does nothing. Fighters are apparently immune to PD, and anti-capship grade laser warheads. And running into each other, because 4,500 fighters with a combined length of a whole helluva lot more than my 100 ships are able to maneuver without hitting each other, while 100 ships with greater separation...aren't.

The only reasonable outcome that I can see at this point is looking like a retcon and ignore, because he is utterly incapable of accepting that he's outgunned and outmaneuvered(he's only assumed his idiotic, and static, phalanx), and that any gun might hurt him or make him have to fall back. Virginia is a 4 and a half kilometer long superdreadnought. Biggest ship I field. If I use it, and we engage, then we have to resolve the issue that his 20km dreadpenis is a very immobile and very easy target for my obligatory "supercapitol grade anti-planetary weapon", which is a laser of unusual size in this case, which has effects similar to the Axial Superlaser of Star Wars fame. What does this mean? It means that if he wants to wank like a boy who just discovered girls and Pent on the same day, I can rebut with something that I've included on every superdreadnought design since my original Intimidator. I've been patient, I've been polite, I've tried engaging him different ways, but it's like fighting some idiot with a fondness for mobile suits, except that even if I fight his way I still can't win. He is quite honestly draining enjoyment from the RP because he HAS to curbstomp the little nation.

You could, you know, just recognize your forces as outmatched, retreat, analyze the data from the encounter, and try to come up with some kind of tactic or measure to overcome the enemy.

Technological parity in FT is the exception rather than the norm, and not every battle will end in victory.

Is your entire ship armotred? Every bulkhead, every hatch, every computer station, every power relay? Money says that unless you're an idiot, it's not the case. Hence, when you breach somethings armor, it tends to be terminal with just a couple extra hits, since you've now got anti-armor weapons ripping through something which is...yaknow, unarmored. Even if your bulkheads are ALL armored, it's going to amount to little, due to volume constraints. Hull breaches are usually fatal, or at least gut significant portions of the ship when 6 meter bore beam weaponry is used.

I may not decide when they die, but I do decide how much of your auto-stimulation I'll tolerate. You passed the tolerance level long ago.

Are your shields retarded? Do they selectively ignore shots? I mean, most people, shields stop hits getting through, or they don't. Unless you've got some idiocy such as that spouted by Balrogga and his ilk.

Nope. I can quote the relevant portions of your posts if you like, but here's the thing. Numbers don't equal an auto-win. Numbers of better ships tend to increase the odds of winning however. For example, you insist that you have lolpwn because...you're older. See, that's not how it works, you have as far as I can see, a poor grasp of tactics, and at best a mediocre navy. And a nice dose of "must curbstomp to compensate for inadequacy" syndrome.

Next irrelevant point... Fighters...suck. Why do we have fighters? Because they're more interesting than missiles,. Slower, less agile, shorter legged... Less bang for your buck all around. But fighters are flashy, and as such continue to exist. And I'm not sure if you missed the hundreds(literally) of point defense weapons which should be casually blotting your fighters from space in job lots. It's called "you can't dodge light" and "My gun is bigger than yours, grab your ankles flyboy.", both of these are concepts anyone should rapidly become familiar with. Again your argument is ineffective, and based on shineyness factor, or "because I said so".

Balanced navies have a solution. My old puppet used 600 ton buckshot at cfrac to make very effective anti-fighter batteries. I use loads and loads of point defense lasers. Your fighters are zerglings. My ships are siege tanks with marines and firebats in support. What does this mean in the end? It means what it always means, you've got alot of dead zerglings.

I suggest that 100 high powered ships shooting at 5 slightly higher powered ships(serious benefit of the doubt there. LOADS of benefit. More than you really deserve.) are going to have better success than "Shields were still dropping, but at such an alarmingly slow rate.", and over a much shorter period of time.

The suggestion that my ships would collide is ludicrous. If each ship has a range of just ten thousand kilometers, I can easily make a hemisphere with thousand of km of separation between each of my ships. EASILY. Now, when you consider the 100k km+ ranges that I'm actually capable of engaging at, your argument is yet more laughable bullshit.

That's interesting. And a non-sequitor. You've never interacted with me before, erego, my statement stands. It does not follow that simply because you've been around a long time, you've dealt with Terrans, Toss, Solari or Mardukans, or even observed them. To the fact that I refute any such occurrence as "invisible fairy" style godmodding.

And my Battleship must be as cumbersome as yours...why? What we have here is a case of Iowa versus Yamato, with the eventual victory of the faster, more agile, and most importantly of all, more effectively(not more heavily mind you) armed Iowa as a foregone conclusion. My battleships are faster than yours, as well as being heavily armed and armored. They can't "zip around the battle field like a TIE" but they can, say... Outmaneuver some extremely cumbersome and admittedly slow battleships.

You have. If shots slip through a point in your shields once, it stands to reason they'll do it again. Now, since my pointing all my guns of any particular engagement at those points(I posted it, I swear) has done absolutely nothing to your ships, I'm going to assume that you either don't read my posts, or are simply ignoring what I'm doing, or don't feel like taking damage. My money says you just don't feel like taking damage.

No, I mean what I said in this post here. Where I selected the points of your repairs as my targets. If the shots were not getting through at those points, you obviously wouldn't need repairs. If they were getting through, they should continue to get through. Hooray for supposed "consistency". Consistency of jello.

"Send updated targets to the rest of the fleets, highlight the supposed weak points. Even if they're not actually where shots are getting through, we're not redirecting our fire off the targets, and we might even bring down a section of their shields faster."

Throughout the small task force, turrets tracked onto locations where repairs had subtly modified the readings coming off of the ships. Agamemnon and all the Confederate ships under its command broke into a blur of motion, slamming acceleration that sent them blazing past their target as every gun that could bear on the target point released its fury, before they slipped into a carefully orchestrated pattern of maneuver that kept the fire continuous on the enemy, but allowed them to almost decide which ships took damage at any one shot from their opponents. Even with their ability to maneuver against an effectively static opponent, there were losses among the destroyers, as shots slipped past energy planes or through kinetic screens to crush through unarmored hulls and gut entire sections of the ship with laughable ease.

That's nice. I'm unmoved by your demonstration of... Absolutely nothing(to whit "Sorry, no matches, try some different terms"). The noobish smiley is a nice touch by the way.

By we I mean "Me and everybody I've talked to that thinks you have less tactical sense than Thrashia, who got his tactics stuck sometime around the battle of Jutland", and by scorn I mean "mocking your attempts at RPing", or possibly, "blatantly laughing at your ineptitude".

Terrans are ancestrally from Terra. That is a no duh. Terrans are not from Terra, seemingly paradoxical, but from past experience with me, also a no duh. The fact that you take things so literally is unsurprising, given your demonstrated shortcomings. Terrans, in this instance(and almost always referring to me, as I'm the only guy that actually uses anything Terran in his nation) are the human residents of the Korpulu Cluster, and as such, could easily exist long after the collapse of Sol. What does this mean? It means that you are wrong. Because the question was not "What is the definition of "Terran" the question was "What ARE Terrans?" and those are two different things. A things nature and its definition are not the same.

You could, you know, just recognize your forces as outmatched, retreat, analyze the data from the encounter, and try to come up with some kind of tactic or measure to overcome the enemy.

Technological parity in FT is the exception rather than the norm, and not every battle will end in victory.

Except for the fact that I'll have to accept in later fights that his ships are better than mine, which is not a concession I'm willing to make. He fights them poorly, and since there is obviously no tactic beyond "Getting a large number of C pattern Heavy Cruisers together and spamming him with more missiles than you can shake an Honorverse at" which will work, I'm not inclined to accept he's better, especially since this is just a case of Hataria syndrome, without the randomcaps and slightly better writing. My patience is limited. Had he logged on MSN at all in the last WEEK this might have been resolved, but his continued silence tells me that he has no desire to talk about this and perhaps clear it up, and RP in a sensible manner. All of these indicate towards him being as immature as your much glassed MT ally.

You could, you know, just recognize your forces as outmatched, retreat, analyze the data from the encounter, and try to come up with some kind of tactic or measure to overcome the enemy.

Technological parity in FT is the exception rather than the norm, and not every battle will end in victory.

I agree with Axis Nova here. And not to mention, the tactics you stated are textbook stuff.

Yes, the shields will flicker if you're not actively trying to overload them. That's what shields are designed to do.

Your missiles are not enough to knock out the fighters. Why? They have systems that were specifically designed to prevent them from being killed by AA alone.

And as for targetting all your guns at one ship and it only taking token damage...well, shoot it some more. It will die eventually.

Read up on real naval engagements...they took hours, days even, to get any real results.

And as for your rant on outnumbering the fleet...Is your name Xerxes or something?

And another thing! Where is it the proof that your fleet is badass? I put thousands of words of text into making the Gorgon a plot device...your friend ElectronX can attest to that, he was there.

Kanuckistan has put a ton of background story into most of his ships. Bryn Shander and New Haven...

Who's supposed to believe you when you say your stuff is badass if you show no proof? Balrogga and Godular put tons of work into the Kythons and I've read it with my own eyes...I believe them when they tell me the Kythons are tough.

But when you say you're a badass with out any type of evidence to convince me, your argument completely flops on the first post.

And another thing! Where is it the proof that your fleet is badass? I put thousands of words of text into making the Gorgon a plot device...your friend ElectronX can attest to that, he was there.

Kanuckistan has put a ton of background story into most of his ships. Bryn Shander and New Haven...

Who's supposed to believe you when you say your stuff is badass if you show no proof? Balrogga and Godular put tons of work into the Kythons and I've read it with my own eyes...I believe them when they tell me the Kythons are tough.

But when you say you're a badass with out any type of evidence to convince me, your argument completely flops on the first post.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum. It is accepted among those with whom I interact that my ships are at or above par, erego, they are.

I also remind you about this one time, on the Mars Boards...

Bryn Shander and New Haven are both people that annoy me, and many others. Kanuck is cool, but we've rarely had dealings where I wasn't too caught up with other things to truly address any combat between us alone.

Godular and Balrogga are both politely tolerated, and openly mocked on a regular basis. Simply because you write your wank down doesn't make it less wanky.

Acceptance equates to evidence. Those with who I regularly engage myself are accustomed to the fact that I employ fewer, and more powerful vessels. Naval engagements with an extreme disparity of numbers are often brief engagements. In this case, we're looking at 20:1 for my ships alone. Worse if it continues and the Carrier Taskforce shows up. At which point you WILL see my fighters, as a side note. And a Superdreadnought which has the same stated purpose as Vzx's Dread, and in a more economical and less superlasser target package.

I also remind you about this one time, on the Mars Boards...

Yeah, I remember. I ignored a group of roleplayers after a series of serious roleplay infractions. I think this is kind of funny because you have less patience than I did...as you are threatening to retcon and ignore this thread for something that is very minor and easily corrected if you just showed any sort of imagination.

You annoy Bryn Shander and New Haven as well. Kanuckistan is cool. Balrogga and Godular are very well respected in their roleplaying circles

AND THROUGH ALL YOUR SLANDER YOU HAVE NOT PROVIDED ANY PROOF FOR WHY YOUR MILITARY SHOULD BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY BY ANYONE!

I'm starting to get a bit frustrated by this. It seems like you are hiding a lack of creativity and talent behind a shield of hostility. Just because you say your fleet is badass, doesn't mean it's badass. Provide some sort of evidence...a roleplay, statistical anaylsis, plot elements in a story, anything to prove to Vzxlack that you might be able to defeat him.

Your arguments are invalid.

"Acceptance equates to evidence."

This statement is completely false. I do not accept your "Divine Power" and I do not fear your lash. And I am aware of several others who share this opinion. The problem with acceptance is that not everyone accepts everything...and it's especially hard to be accepted when you have absolutely no evidence.

I've been friends with MM or a while now; I've RPed with him, I've read his posts, I've watched him fight.

His methods are sometimes heavy-handed, and he doesn't have very much patience, yet I will attest to the 'badassness' of his Navy just as anyone else would. Does that mean I think he can wipe the floor with anyone? No, I am saying he can handle himself adequately against anyone in the game who isn't a total wanker or godmodder.

Maneuver to avoid damage. According to him I can't, it's impossible to maneuver 100 ships in a massive empty void, and still have them all targeting a 2km object. New to me...

Massively empty? What about the Angori? Or the Telrosi? Are you just going to let them be collateral damage? This isn't even taking acount that I'm maintaining a perimeter between the wounded ship and the capital ship. Or the fighters that you have to "swat away" as you so uneloquently put it.

Fighters are apparently immune to PD, and anti-capship grade laser warheads.

My fighters are individually shielded and moving at speeds that an assumed aim isn't always going to strike at. You know that word, aim, right? It means taking time to target something before firing. This doesn't happen instantaneously, and if you say it does, you're the one god moding.

By the way, since when can lasers have warheads? It's focused energy and light.

The only reasonable outcome that I can see at this point is looking like a retcon and ignore, because he is utterly incapable of accepting that he's outgunned and outmaneuvered(he's only assumed his idiotic, and static, phalanx),

I'm curious as to what you think happened at the Battle of Thermopylae. There was a reason why Sparta considered phalanx positions effective and deadly.

and that any gun might hurt him or make him have to fall back. Virginia is a 4 and a half kilometer long superdreadnought. Biggest ship I field. If I use it, and we engage, then we have to resolve the issue that his 20km dreadpenis is a very immobile and very easy target for my obligatory "supercapitol grade anti-planetary weapon", which is a laser of unusual size in this case, which has effects similar to the Axial Superlaser of Star Wars fame.

Congratulations, you found something that could actually challenge a Vzxlackian dreadnought. Do note that challenge does not mean "instant kill" like it does in MM-land.

Is your entire ship armotred? Every bulkhead, every hatch, every computer station, every power relay? Money says that unless you're an idiot, it's not the case.

There's still a functioning shield in place, dolt. At this point, it's still been absorbing a good deal of your payload. Thing is, it's weakening, and that's how the lower deck has got a big hole in it now. More shots, and you have bigger, crippling explosions.

Hence, when you breach somethings armor, it tends to be terminal with just a couple extra hits, since you've now got anti-armor weapons ripping through something which is...yaknow, unarmored. Even if your bulkheads are ALL armored, it's going to amount to little, due to volume constraints. Hull breaches are usually fatal, or at least gut significant portions of the ship when 6 meter bore beam weaponry is used.

All that goes to partial effectiveness, when there's still a concentrated energy field in the way.

I may not decide when they die, but I do decide how much of your auto-stimulation I'll tolerate. You passed the tolerance level long ago.

I hear from others that your tolerance is paper thin and that you whine a lot.

Are your shields retarded? Do they selectively ignore shots? I mean, most people, shields stop hits getting through, or they don't. Unless you've got some idiocy such as that spouted by Balrogga and his ilk.

They leak more and more as they lower in power.

Nope. I can quote the relevant portions of your posts if you like, but here's the thing. Numbers don't equal an auto-win. Numbers of better ships tend to increase the odds of winning however.

Yours aren't better, because no one's ever seen any schematics of them.

Next irrelevant point... Fighters...suck.

I can't take you seriously if you believe this. They're like individually shielded missiles that get multiple shots and permanent field life. Missiles on the other hand are one use only and then gone.

Why do we have fighters? Because they're more interesting than missiles,. Slower, less agile, shorter legged... Less bang for your buck all around. But fighters are flashy, and as such continue to exist. And I'm not sure if you missed the hundreds(literally) of point defense weapons which should be casually blotting your fighters from space in job lots. It's called "you can't dodge light" and "My gun is bigger than yours, grab your ankles flyboy."

Your big gun still needs to aim on a target.

Balanced navies have a solution. My old puppet used 600 ton buckshot at cfrac to make very effective anti-fighter batteries. I use loads and loads of point defense lasers. Your fighters are zerglings. My ships are siege tanks with marines and firebats in support. What does this mean in the end? It means what it always means, you've got alot of dead zerglings.

And while you're dealing with the zerglings, the ultralisks are eating you alive.

I suggest that 100 high powered ships shooting at 5 slightly higher powered ships(serious benefit of the doubt there. LOADS of benefit. More than you really deserve.) are going to have better success than "Shields were still dropping, but at such an alarmingly slow rate.", and over a much shorter period of time.

Why? Because you say so? That's not good enough, sir.

The suggestion that my ships would collide is ludicrous. If each ship has a range of just ten thousand kilometers, I can easily make a hemisphere with thousand of km of separation between each of my ships. EASILY. Now, when you consider the 100k km+ ranges that I'm actually capable of engaging at, your argument is yet more laughable bullshit.

And while you're building that hemisphere... you have to avoid hitting your allies and keep up with a phalanx shield in the way of your capital ship.

And my Battleship must be as cumbersome as yours...why?

Because it's a larger object, and the maneuverability comes into question at its size.

What we have here is a case of Iowa versus Yamato, with the eventual victory of the faster, more agile, and most importantly of all, more effectively(not more heavily mind you) armed Iowa as a foregone conclusion.

Actually Yamato was smaller by a hundred feet, and could literally turn on a dime.

My battleships are faster than yours, as well as being heavily armed and armored. They can't "zip around the battle field like a TIE" but they can, say... Outmaneuver some extremely cumbersome and admittedly slow battleships.

I've seen a a description of a 2 1/2 kilometer capital ship, and a loose lump of "no less impressive" battleships. Frankly, they sound more cumbersome than my battleships for being half a kilometer longer. Because guess what, the Vzxlackian battleships are cumbersome because of their size.

Sorry, but you don't get to zip around like Mighty Mouse.

You have. If shots slip through a point in your shields once, it stands to reason they'll do it again. Now, since my pointing all my guns of any particular engagement at those points(I posted it, I swear) has done absolutely nothing to your ships,

You forgetting ship number five again?

No, I mean what I said in this post here. Where I selected the points of your repairs as my targets. If the shots were not getting through at those points, you obviously wouldn't need repairs. If they were getting through, they should continue to get through.

Tiny breaks and metal burn are not good things to have on the hull, thus the need for repair. Despite this, I still have fully operable shields keeping most of the impact out.

Except for the fact that I'll have to accept in later fights that his ships are better than mine, which is not a concession I'm willing to make. He fights them poorly, and since there is obviously no tactic beyond "Getting a large number of C pattern Heavy Cruisers together and spamming him with more missiles than you can shake an Honorverse at" which will work, I'm not inclined to accept he's better, especially since this is just a case of Hataria syndrome,

You're sure obsessed with Hataria who I hear has more in common with you.

By the way... the rough schematics of my ships can be found here. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=291765&highlight=vzxlack&page=6) You now know a rough outline of their weaponry. If you simply say "mine are better," you lose the argument.

I also remind you about this one time, on the Mars Boards...

Yeah, I remember. I ignored a group of roleplayers after a series of serious roleplay infractions. I think this is kind of funny because you have less patience than I did...as you are threatening to retcon and ignore this thread for something that is very minor and easily corrected if you just showed any sort of imagination.

You annoy Bryn Shander and New Haven as well. Kanuckistan is cool. Balrogga and Godular are very well respected in their roleplaying circles

AND THROUGH ALL YOUR SLANDER YOU HAVE NOT PROVIDED ANY PROOF FOR WHY YOUR MILITARY SHOULD BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY BY ANYONE!

I'm starting to get a bit frustrated by this. It seems like you are hiding a lack of creativity and talent behind a shield of hostility. Just because you say your fleet is badass, doesn't mean it's badass. Provide some sort of evidence...a roleplay, statistical anaylsis, plot elements in a story, anything to prove to Vzxlack that you might be able to defeat him.

Your arguments are invalid.

I need not prove my points, only disprove yours.

Bryn Shander being annoyed by me does little to hurt my feelings.

Balrogga is respected very few places, barring the White Tower, which should tell you something in and of itself, likewise Godular. Few take them seriously because of the fiascoes with their Kythons.

Moving on to the remainder of your points...

Ah yes... Less patience. You would perhaps...retreat, and give him the justification to later say this his ships are superior because he forced me to retreat, while devising some strategy, say a superweapon that only works on him, which you would waste months and months on writing up, before using it in the first battle and having him trump it with "You retreated last time, my ships are better, you lose.". You're damn straight I'm less patient because I expect better out of people, and when they fail to measure up, they will be so informed.

Imagination... As opposed to having my targeting changes ignored, and my ability to do anything negated by his ignorance and assumptions of superiority. Perhaps I should employ my secret weap...wait, I don't have any secret weapons. Perhaps I'll cleverly lure him into a handy...no...there aren't any nearby black holes. Maybe call in a fleet for FIVE FUCKING BATTLESHIPS...no too extreme. How about I expect him to act like he's not an arrogant bastard with an assumption of superiority and nothing to back it up? That seems pretty imaginative. Your question does after all cut both ways Auman. Show me where he has written up the awesome might of his fleet. Show me an RP he's been in on Jolt, other than this one. Show me, perhaps, those with whom he regularly RPs, and who might attest the worth of his ships.

In the last month I redesigned my fleet. I've got stats written up, but have yet to fully post them, beyond a numerical listing by class and classification. On the other hand, I'm not on trial here either. And the fact that you seem so willing to demand no similar evidence from Vzxlack seems...interesting to me. He was the one whose navy was challenged, by all rights he needs to show me something that proves his worth. Call forth witnesses on his behalf who will speak to his strength. Perhaps show me the stats of his vessels as you so demand I show mine.

Your arguments are invalid, because they apply in both directions. If I need to prove my superiority, so does he. If I don't, he might still, because he has been challenged as to his own legitimacy. Since he has no one to speak for him that I have seen, or at least no one with a reputation that's worth anything(that's right, you don't count if you speak up for him), I'm not too impressed. I on the other hand can call upon a number of prominent RPers to vouch that my ships are at least of a caliber to respect. EX himself, who you did make reference to in posts past, will attest to such. As will any of a number of other people I can call upon, who may or may not choose to post. Now, if he can get someone other than you to say his ships are good, then we might have something to talk about, until that point, you are arguing an unsupportable position.

EDIT: He already did before I posted this. Burden of proof time.

And while I look at the link that Vzxlack has posted, which involves a roleplayer that I respected and dealt with on several occasions, Klonor, I still see that you have not posted a link to your stats...which I asked for.

I would like to see links that involve you using creative writing...as opposed to you blundering around in a "Heavy Handed" fashion in a crude attempt at winning Nationstates.

Well, I hear that MM has made his lifelong goal to win NationStates. We can't really rob him of that dream, can we?

And while I look at the link that Vzxlack has posted, which involves a roleplayer that I respected and dealt with on several occasions, Klonor, I still see that you have not posted a link to your stats...which I asked for.

I would like to see links that involve you using creative writing...as opposed to you blundering around in a "Heavy Handed" fashion in a crude attempt at winning Nationstates.

In the last month I redesigned my fleet. I've got stats written up, but have yet to fully post them, beyond a numerical listing by class and classification.

All my designs follow a similar size pattern, so I can link you to ships that are similar in nature, though not of quite the proper armament or variety.

And if you so desire... I've got The Glorious Burden, I've got Birth of the Wicked, I've got Antithesis of Emptiness(sadly stalled) and one post that's more fantasy/FTish, but still looks very dramatic and leads to shivers when most people read it.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=524473 The Glorious Burden, in progress

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=526545 Antithesis of emptiness, just beautiful it is.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=526438 Short, rather bland, but fun nonetheless.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=526890 It's a plotline, I've stalled for lack of inspiration, so I slammed together a post to give me a place to start again once I've got Framing Armageddon well in hand.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=528159 Reference thread. Just started, nowhere near complete, to the point that it lacks any descriptions of ships, etc. I show my intentions but not my processes at this point.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12298144&postcount=737 I'm just really proud of this post for the drama, even though I had intended to wreck the thread when I joined.

I think my writing has improved since I began writing these threads, so I give you but a sampling from recent months.

Ub3R /_0l \/\/|nN3r=/\/\ /\/\

Awesome! This is what I've been asking you for since the beginning. And now that you've proven you can write creatively, this thread is worthless. Go back to the main thread and finish what you started in an imaginative way...Adapt or Die.

If you can't beat them, leave, think it over and use this experience to prevail at a later date.

You have given me the evidence of your worth as a roleplayer...now, roleplay.

Massively empty? What about the Angori? Or the Telrosi? Are you just going to let them be collateral damage? This isn't even taking acount that I'm maintaining a perimeter between the wounded ship and the capital ship. Or the fighters that you have to "swat away" as you so uneloquently put it.



My fighters are individually shielded and moving at speeds that an assumed aim isn't always going to strike at. You know that word, aim, right? It means taking time to target something before firing. This doesn't happen instantaneously, and if you say it does, you're the one god moding.

By the way, since when can lasers have warheads? It's focused energy and light.



I'm curious as to what you think happened at the Battle of Thermopylae. There was a reason why Sparta considered phalanx positions effective and deadly.



Congratulations, you found something that could actually challenge a Vzxlackian dreadnought. Do note that challenge does not mean "instant kill" like it does in MM-land.



There's still a functioning shield in place, dolt. At this point, it's still been absorbing a good deal of your payload. Thing is, it's weakening, and that's how the lower deck has got a big hole in it now. More shots, and you have bigger, crippling explosions.



All that goes to partial effectiveness, when there's still a concentrated energy field in the way.



I hear from others that your tolerance is paper thin and that you whine a lot.



They leak more and more as they lower in power.



Yours aren't better, because no one's ever seen any schematics of them.



I can't take you seriously if you believe this. They're like individually shielded missiles that get multiple shots and permanent field life. Missiles on the other hand are one use only and then gone.



Your big gun still needs to aim on a target.



And while you're dealing with the zerglings, the ultralisks are eating you alive.



Why? Because you say so? That's not good enough, sir.



And while you're building that hemisphere... you have to avoid hitting your allies and keep up with a phalanx shield in the way of your capital ship.



Because it's a larger object, and the maneuverability comes into question at its size.



Actually Yamato was smaller by a hundred feet, faster, and could literally turn on a dime.



I've seen a a description of a 2 1/2 kilometer capital ship, and a loose lump of "no less impressive" battleships. Frankly, they sound more cumbersome than my battleships for being half a kilometer longer. Because guess what, the Vzxlackian battleships are cumbersome because of their size.

Sorry, but you don't get to zip around like Mighty Mouse.



You forgetting ship number five again?



Tiny breaks and metal burn are not good things to have on the hull, thus the need for repair. Despite this, I still have fully operable shields keeping most of the impact out.



You're sure obsessed with Hataria who I hear has more in common with you.

By the way... the rough schematics of my ships can be found here. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=291765&highlight=vzxlack&page=6) You now know a rough outline of their weaponry. If you simply say "mine are better," you lose the argument.

Allow me to illustrate something for you. Ships, no matter their size, are VERY small. Space is by definition VERY big. When these are brought together, we get that we have loads of very empty space in which all engaged forces may maneuver. YOU are resorting to tactics no sane man might choose, because by its nature it leaves you in a cleft fork, and attempting to catch a battleship designed with speed and accurate placement of relatively powerful weapons in mind. As a general reference, if I wank anything, it's speed. My ships are FAST, to the point of talking a couple thousand gravities acceleration for a Battleship, and more for the B Pattern Agamemnon you're facing. I don't like slow ships. Sure, it means that things like inertial compensators and similar items are better targets for an enemy, but at any reasonable acceleration they will be. I just accept that they are anyway, and so take best advantage.

You know the word "lead" right? That is to say, not pointing directly at your target, and instead pointing where they're likely to be in x time? It's fairly simple, especially when we realize that my ships are mounting in total, more PD than you have fighters, plus secondaries, which may or may not be acting as anti-fighter batteries at times.

You mean the one where they had a natural defensive position, and lost when they got flank...oh wait that's right, you haven't got any hot gates. My bad. Does not apply.

I don't expect it to. Not with your track record so far.

Your shields are...bizarre to say the least. Either a shield is up, or it is not. Never before have I seen someone who allows fire through their shields before they drop. Except Baltrogga, who is less than all there. It is known.

I've been more tolerant with you than usual. Of course, I'm not the only one aggravated by your antics, so it's more I got to it first than I'm a whiny punk, isn't it?

See previous quote to Auman.

And yaknow, your incredibly cumbersome battleships can totally outmaneuver ones designed with speed and effective employment of their weaponry in mind. Totally. Because that makes so much sense.

Yeah, there's an entire thread onm that. It ws fairly well resolved that we have fighters because they';re more entertaining.

Nah. Fast and big is still maneuverable.

Assuming that that's just a pathetic attempt at sarcasm... You're not funny. Assuming you actually believe that...you're horribly uninformed, and probably need to take remedial history.

I call them as I see them. You're just Hataria with less randomcaps, and slightly better prose. You're ME, 6 months ago. I'm woefully underwhelmed.

Awesome! This is what I've been asking you for since the beginning. And now that you've proven you can write creatively, this thread is worthless. Go back to the main thread and finish what you started in an imaginative way...Adapt or Die.

If you can't beat them, leave, think it over and use this experience to prevail at a later date.

You have given me the evidence of your worth as a roleplayer...now, roleplay.

The point is to resolve a conflict, since this guy still hasn't got on his MSN, where we could save time and effort arguing things out, like I do with everyone else. He is, as I mentioned, myself, some 6 months ago. I'll illustrate the point if you want.

Now, this is about dodging in outer space.

Space is big...It's a really big place. It's dark. It's cold.

Space has no air. No friction of any kind...hell, if you push something in a certain direction it will keep going that direction till something stops it. Forever.

Now, imagine...you're just burning along in space, going thousands of kilometers per hour. You can't just stop on the spot and you can't turn on a dime. Being maneuverable in space is tough...you gotta plan out every little move that is made, especially in a large formation of warships, because if you mess up in the slightest you could very likely crash.

And when you are flushed out into space, since it's so big, no one will ever find you. Dodging is not as easy as it sounds. You'd be safer off not being seen at all and traveling in smaller formations...Using what ever you can to avoid detection and strike the enemy from a position of superiority.

Space is freakin' huge man. And everyone hates to accept it, but you'd be better off thinking like a Sub Commander than anything else. With the right tactics and enough time, those five battleships could pick your forces apart. And with the right kind of a force multiplier, he could end the battle in under an hour with 5 ships.

One nuclear missile was more than enough to deal an entire bomber wave.

My ships are FAST, to the point of talking a couple thousand gravities acceleration for a Battleship, and more for the B Pattern Agamemnon you're facing. I don't like slow ships. Sure, it means that things like inertial compensators and similar items are better targets for an enemy, but at any reasonable acceleration they will be. I just accept that they are anyway, and so take best advantage.

They must be made from paper then.

You know the word "lead" right? That is to say, not pointing directly at your target, and instead pointing where they're likely to be in x time?

And the target can turn elsewhere and mess up your shot.

I don't expect it to. Not with your track record so far.

You suck at quoting... I can't even determine what this is replying to. And as far as I can tell, your track record is shit.

Your shields are...bizarre to say the least. Either a shield is up, or it is not.

"Shields are down to 30%!" And explosions are appearing on and inside the ship from the beam fire. Seen it in sci-fi movies and shows millions of times.

I've been more tolerant with you than usual. Of course, I'm not the only one aggravated by your antics

You have MPD?

so it's more I got to it first than I'm a whiny punk, isn't it?

Yep.

And yaknow, your incredibly cumbersome battleships can totally outmaneuver ones designed with speed and effective employment of their weaponry in mind. Totally. Because that makes so much sense.

Well if they don't, your ships are paper for their size and speed.

Yeah, there's an entire thread onm that. It ws fairly well resolved that we have fighters because they';re more entertaining.

They're also extremely effective.

Nah. Fast and big is still maneuverable.

...and paper.

Assuming that that's just a pathetic attempt at sarcasm... You're not funny. Assuming you actually believe that...you're horribly uninformed, and probably need to take remedial history.

{Laughter in the background.}

I call them as I see them. You're just Hataria with less randomcaps, and slightly better prose. You're ME, 6 months ago. I'm woefully underwhelmed.

Imagine how I feel about you.... :rolleyes:

The point is to resolve a conflict, since this guy still hasn't got on his MSN,

{More laughter in the background.}

*Cap O' Niceness Removed*

Common courtesy escapes you does it not? Your passive-aggressive attitude, and psychological attacks are indicative of someone with their own problems, and are also not conducive to the resolution of any conflicts. Your issues include: being bossy, being downright rude, and being wholly uncooperative.

Fighters are not effective. Fighters exist now to get munitions where they are needed because missiles do not have infinite range, and even when they do, they lack the counter-measures required to survive such long journeys. Fighters are slower than missiles, have inherently less agility, and have more technical bits that can malfunction or become damaged. They are therefore easier to shutdown within the FT environs than in MT where targeting software and AA are still catching up to fighter innovations. We don't even have to make the missiles and fighters of the same size, because proportionally, a fighter < Missile in the situation you are attempting to use them.

The only reason why MM hasn't killed them all off with an AoE weapon, or nano-second level targeting computers, is because he likes fighters himself, and respects the concept despite glaring feasibility issues. Wanna know why? Because MM, despite being rough on the edges, is not such a dick to demand complacency with his style of roleplay because he said so.

There are no phalanxes in space. Thermopylea worked because of terrain advantages and a vast difference in troop quality. However, once the Spartans were flanked, they were annihilated. There is no terrain advantage for you; MM can hit you from a multitude of angles without having to worry about a big fucking mountain blocking your left side. The only way phalanx's work is if there is no egregious difference in quantity between the two forces. Guess what: there is.

MM's ship can be fast by having more power output go to his engines at the cost of hull integrity insofar as his ships require more maintenance than do others. His ships can be fast because his method of propulsion is either energy efficient, or handwaves the restraints placed upon him by gravity.

Now before you say anything: yes, he can handwave those things without his ships becoming paper. Otherwise, your ships are at best, air considering you claim power outputs that no-known element could ever produce, while also having the containment methods available to extract it. Don't point out the speck in his eye when you have a redwood in yours.

You've yet to prove that you're play style ought to be accepted over someone who has been around longer than you have despite his being more than accommodating. You know why you have prove to the world that your wank is acceptable? Because you're the newbie here. No one knows if you're a terrible wanker or godmodder yet. Start proving.

*Lights a cigar*

They must be made from paper then.

"Shields are down to 30%!" And explosions are appearing on and inside the ship from the beam fire. Seen it in sci-fi movies and shows millions of times.

Well if they don't, your ships are paper for their size and speed.

...and paper.


This is about all that seems worth replying to.

No, your propulsion technology just sucks. See how easy that was? You're big and slow, I'm big and fast. Different paths taken, different outcome.

Umm... I'm thinking...Star Trek and...Star Trek. But, I don't get out much, or watch much TV, so I'm sure I missed something somewhere.

And again, different focus, different outcome. Who's whining now? "You can't be fast cause you're big." Well fine, you can't be dangerous because you're smaller.

And again, see previous.

Likewise also for this one.

I find it beautifully ironic that Neutron of all people has the balls to say anything about anyone supposedly pulling a fleet out of their ass and claiming superiority, not to mention calling people noobs. I guess you forgot to read the part where Vzxlack posted his ships in a thread involving Klonor way back in 2003. What's that? Well more than a year before you even had a nation, let alone RPed in FT? Well I'll be damned, I guess that would make you the noob here, now wouldn't it?

Neutron, your hypocrisy here is almost blinding. Maybe you ought to sit down and think about what you're typing before you make yourself look like even more of an idiot.

I find it beautifully ironic that Neutron of all people has the balls to say anything about anyone supposedly pulling a fleet out of their ass and claiming superiority, not to mention calling people noobs. I guess you forgot to read the part where Vzxlack posted his ships in a thread involving Klonor way back in 2003. What's that? Well more than a year before you even had a nation, let alone RPed in FT? Well I'll be damned, I guess that would make you the noob here, now wouldn't it?

Neutron, your hypocrisy here is almost blinding. Maybe you ought to sit down and think about what you're typing before you make yourself look like even more of an idiot.

No one is complaining about his fleet. People are complaining about blatant cries of superiority that go so far over the line of acceptability that an issue results. What people are complaining about is that which has left you with no one to play with but perhaps a very small hand-full of people who either like abuse, or don't know you well enough to be concerned about your bloated ego.

And I guess being blind would explain your inability to read, wouldn't it? Though I doubt hypocrisy had anything to do with that...

I think the silly part of this thread is that it highlights a problem that NS has been struggling with since 2002.

Battles are not fought and won in a matter of a few minutes. The Battle of Jutland took place on the days of May 31 - June 1 and in the course of that battle the British Royal Navy took 3 battlecruisers, 3 armoured cruisers, 8 destroyers sunk and the German High Seas Fleet had 1 battlecruiser, 1 pre-dreadnought, 4 light cruisers, 5 torpedo-boats sent to the bottom.

All that took the course of a day to accomplish.

What does this say about someone bitching and complaining that they haven't sunk all the battleships in the course of several seconds? It says they don't know what wikipedia is, and that they definitely have no concept of what a battle is.

A battle is more than "lol, i c u". There are hours, days, months, years of careful planning that go into each battle. You'd have to be a bloody retard to throw yourself into a battle with an enemy you've never encountered before, because their five Battleships could very possibly kick your ass.

Recon, do more of it.

I've noticed in the thread that your tactics involved more firing wildly than actually putting thought into how you will pursue the battle itself. You have taken no formations. You have not put yourself into any sort of advantageous firing positions and you have not made any real attempt to actually win the battle.

In my mind, your ships are kinda scattered around, firing aimlessly and with out direction. This is why the Romans beat the Barbarians almost every time. Because the Romans were organized.

Your "tactics" make as much sense to me as the Battle of the Somme.

No one is complaining about his fleet. People are complaining about blatant cries of superiority that go so far over the line of acceptability that an issue results. What people are complaining about is that which has left you with no one to play with but perhaps a very small hand-full of people who either like abuse, or don't know you well enough to be concerned about your bloated ego.

And I guess being blind would explain your inability to read, wouldn't it? Though I doubt hypocrisy had anything to do with that...

Really? Because I seem to recall that these same cries of superiority are exactly what got you ignored by not only myself and New Haven, but your then only ally in the game too. Unlike your claims, however, Vzxlack at least has the fact that he's been around since 2003 and has numbers for his ships. What do you have to back up your claims of superiority?

No one is complaining about his fleet. People are complaining about blatant cries of superiority that go so far over the line of acceptability that an issue results. What people are complaining about is that which has left you with no one to play with but perhaps a very small hand-full of people who either like abuse, or don't know you well enough to be concerned about your bloated ego.

And I guess being blind would explain your inability to read, wouldn't it? Though I doubt hypocrisy had anything to do with that...

I don't believe personal attacks are necessary, Electron. But since that's the direction we're going I'll note that some of the folks you roleplay with are not exactly the most highly thought of bunch around. The general opinion of "them" is extreme contempt...and that's from the vast majority of the real roleplaying community on these boards who have had the unfortunate experience of dealing with certain Elitist players.

Refusing to play with the most uncreative, reviled and untalented is not the end of the world.

Really? Because I seem to recall that these same cries of superiority are exactly what got you ignored by not only myself and New Haven, but your then only ally in the game too. Unlike your claims, however, Vzxlack at least has the fact that he's been around since 2003 and has numbers for his ships. What do you have to back up your claims of superiority?

And you recall wrong. What got me 'ignored' by you and NH was akin to "You didn't say you did this or that though it was easily inferred therefore you suck hahahahahhahahahahlolol432423!" I also recall, perfectly, that any of my calls for superiority were well excepted until you were blown from the cosmos, and also that you yourself claimed superiority over everyone, at least until Siri's name came up and you tucked your tail and ran away. Hypocrisy is funny sometimes.

To everything else, and your lack of a contribution in general, I say this: I don't need to do anything regardless of the ease (didn't I post the exact number of ships I had in this very thread anyway? Oops! If you stop your sight will eventually return) of doing so. Because this is not about you needing to fulfill any desires to feel speshul, but for Vzxlack and MM to work something out in the face of an issue.

I think it's called cooperation, or maybe I'm just making concepts and words up out of nowhere. Shame on me.

I don't believe personal attacks are necessary, Electron. But since that's the direction we're going I'll note that some of the folks you roleplay with are not exactly the most highly thought of bunch around. The general opinion of "them" is extreme contempt...and that's from the vast majority of the real roleplaying community on these boards who have had the unfortunate experience of dealing with certain Elitist players.

Refusing to play with the most uncreative, reviled and untalented is not the end of the world.

They're not attacks but points of fact, actually.

Who said I played with any of these 'folks' you refer to? I sit in a chatroom with them; I've yet to RP with any of them.

Where does this general opinion come from? Yeah I'm familiar with it, but not on such a broad level that it acts as a valid descriptor for the uninitiated. You can't claim that an invisible armada of people hate a vaguely referred to clique.

And besides, this isn't about Shander and his ego, but Gopher's RP, so it is best if any discussion of previous incidents is dropped to facilitate that end.

Would people please stop throwing around words like "idiot" before the Mods have to get involved and clear up the situation with a couple of locks?!

Vzxlack, I looked at that thread you linked (here's the relevant post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=5539561&postcount=89)), and was alarmed to see that you had a fleet of four dreads and 64 battleships to spare back in 2003. Please tell me you've vastly lowered your ship/population ratio since then.

Keeping in mind that I use fighters with this nation and several others, I think there's very little they can do that a missile or combat drone can't do more effectively. However, there has already been an entire thread on this matter, and we all know nobody is going to change their mind on it here.

My battleships, which will be arriving shortly if we can get this mess sorted out and we don't end up retracting the whole episode, are only 1 km long, because the Angori value maneuverability highly. They are also very quick and agile for their size, because they are built with disproportionately powerful propulsion systems, inertial compensators, and such.

"Being maneuverable in space is tough...you gotta plan out every little move that is made, especially in a large formation of warships, because if you mess up in the slightest you could very likely crash."

Nah, cause of that 'space is big' thing you mentioned. Formations can be spaced widely enough that collisions are very unlikely. Movements need to be well coordinated to maintain a stable formation, but crashing isn't really a major issue in deep space, except in a very crowded, very small battlefield.

As for stopping on a dime, that depends on your propulsion and steering systems. Most Angori ships can come pretty close, when there isn't FTLi in the way.

"I guess you forgot to read the part where Vzxlack posted his ships in a thread involving Klonor way back in 2003. What's that? Well more than a year before you even had a nation, let alone RPed in FT? Well I'll be damned, I guess that would make you the noob here, now wouldn't it?"

N00B =! newb. Either way, please try to keep to the matter at hand, and away from the pointless insults.

A more or less random selection of points I thought worth responding to. NO doubt there are many others I should have commented on, on both sides, but my time is not unlimited. My most important point was the first, which I will repeat: "Would people please stop throwing around words like "idiot" before the Mods have to get involved and clear up the situation with a couple of locks?!" That goes for both sides here.

I really don't want to see this RP ruined by OOC conflict; I think it has the potential for interesting long term effects, and of course it's rather important for my current storyline...

P.S. @#$%&!! it, Jolt, don't log me out while I'm in the middle of typing a post!!!

I think the silly part of this thread is that it highlights a problem that NS has been struggling with since 2002.

Battles are not fought and won in a matter of a few minutes. The Battle of Jutland took place on the days of May 31 - June 1 and in the course of that battle the British Royal Navy took 3 battlecruisers, 3 armoured cruisers, 8 destroyers sunk and the German High Seas Fleet had 1 battlecruiser, 1 pre-dreadnought, 4 light cruisers, 5 torpedo-boats sent to the bottom.

All that took the course of a day to accomplish.

What does this say about someone bitching and complaining that they haven't sunk all the battleships in the course of several seconds? It says they don't know what wikipedia is, and that they definitely have no concept of what a battle is.

A battle is more than "lol, i c u". There are hours, days, months, years of careful planning that go into each battle. You'd have to be a bloody retard to throw yourself into a battle with an enemy you've never encountered before, because their five Battleships could very possibly kick your ass.

Recon, do more of it.

I've noticed in the thread that your tactics involved more firing wildly than actually putting thought into how you will pursue the battle itself. You have taken no formations. You have not put yourself into any sort of advantageous firing positions and you have not made any real attempt to actually win the battle.

In my mind, your ships are kinda scattered around, firing aimlessly and with out direction. This is why the Romans beat the Barbarians almost every time. Because the Romans were organized.

Your "tactics" make as much sense to me as the Battle of the Somme.

I see a fair pattern to my methods, be ye ever so blind that it escapes you. And you're right,. there is very little "formation" per se. Why? Because it gives my ships room to exploit maneuverability advantages, as opposed to locking them into a wall, or similar.

By my figuring, as a note, it's been about 15-20 minutes, with a number of battleships being attacked from ambush. Which was a total failure at being RPed out by the ambushed, but neither here nor there. The fact that a Commodore continues to direct the fire would tend to indicate against your theory Auman. Also, I'm not expecting to utterly slaughter them in moments,but when I'm caught surprised by a foe of unknown origin, with more ships and an unknown force, only an idiot will engage, his 100 ships could possibly kill your 5 Battleships after all, since you have no idea just how strong they are. And don't give me that "We've been watching you" invisible fairy bull.

Advantageous firing positions are abundant, and rather pointless in space. There is no cover or high ground after all. It's all an empty waste. As you mentioned. I merely have to maneuver around his defensive...ish...thingy. And since my ships are eye bleeding fast, and make a concurrent trade off in other places, and his ships are slow and cumbersome by admission on his part, I can fairly easily outmaneuver them, I'd think, even if they are inside my arc.

And you recall wrong. What got me 'ignored' by you and NH was akin to "You didn't say you did this or that though it was easily inferred therefore you suck hahahahahhahahahahlolol432423!" I also recall, perfectly, that any of my calls for superiority were well excepted until you were blown from the cosmos, and also that you yourself claimed superiority over everyone, at least until Siri's name came up and you tucked your tail and ran away. Hypocrisy is funny sometimes.

To everything else, and your lack of a contribution in general, I say this: I don't need to do anything regardless of the ease (didn't I post the exact number of ships I had in this very thread anyway? Oops! If you stop your sight will eventually return) of doing so. Because this is not about you needing to fulfill any desires to feel speshul, but for Vzxlack and MM to work something out in the face of an issue.

I think it's called cooperation, or maybe I'm just making concepts and words up out of nowhere. Shame on me.

I don't actually recall mentioning that I ignored you. I did not tuck my tail. I did not eat green eggs and ham. I did not eat them, Sam Iam. I am now removing myself from this thread as I have made my points...and it is starting to get hijacked.

I believe you need to take an honest look at the situation you're in and think about it. I've removed myself from a negative situation and Iam better for it. You might think of doing the same. I think you're a good player...who's running with the wrong crowd.

And besides, this isn't about Shander and his ego, but Gopher's RP, so it is best if any discussion of previous incidents is dropped to facilitate that end.

Indeed. If it isn't related at least loosely to "Find Them!", kindly take it elsewhere.

As I said in my last post, Vxzlack, by the 1000 per billion rule, you can have over 7000 ships, or something in that range, average ones anyways. What do you have instead total? I just want to know since that will help to determine how much damage I received and all that, so we can agree on this already.

In response to comments about age, I'd like to answer with the following:

"Age does not always bring wisdom. Sometimes age comes alone."
-Garrison Keillor

While some time is required for folk to get experience with the style of play on these forums, those new to these forums are not necessarily new to the concept of role playing. Even if they are, more than a few months are rarely necessary for folk to become familiar with the concept, though most of us here tend to get better over time as we gain experience writing posts, assuming we try to improve. Age has really very little to do with the issues of realism or wank. The members of the Temporal Accord were all fine, well-established nations, but they wanked as hard as anyone here in their claims of complete and absolute control of temporal technology as it existed in the days of that particular organization.

The degree to which any single person has to remain true to the laws of physics is theirs alone to decide, or at most is an issue that ultimately must be settled between the folk actually engaged in the relevant thread.

As far as realism is concerned, I do not recall Auman, Tannelorn, or anyone else in that particular group being more realistic in any meaningful way than anyone else. No-one here has absolutely any moral high ground when it comes to realism; any nation that were to attempt to strictly obey basic Newtonian physics, much less the laws of thermodynamics or special relativity, would find itself conquered in a matter of hours by one or more nations wielding massive e-penii of doom. Were Weyr not a pacifist, isolationist state, it would most likely take part in such a conquest.

While Auman is correct that space is vast, and in real life space warfare would most likely approximate something akin to real-life subsurface warfare, save at much higher velocities, I doubt most folk would be very interested in playing out the slow and careful stalking that would characterize such, or would want to consider the complexities involved in attempting to find, plot, and hit a target at velocities approaching the speed of light.

While this isn't the time or place to discuss any sort of realistic space warfare, there are a few issues a starship commander would face in an engagement where both ships' velocities approach the speed of light.
Scanner Limitations. As an object approaches the speed of light, it takes it a shorter and shorter period of time to close the distance between any two points. Since modern scanners like RADAR work by bouncing signals off objects, by the time the reflected wave off any given object before a warship traveling at near-light speed is intercepted by that warship, chances are the warship has already intercepted or has passed that object.

Probabilities. Since momentum is conserved, any warship in space even with in engines off would realistically keep going on its initial vectors. This means a warship can at any time change its axis of orientation and do a nice, long burn, thus changing its vectors in a short period of time. Thus any weapons officer trying to target an opponent at high enough velocities would be dealing not with a single linear plot along which he could lead and hit the opponent warship, but most likely with a cone whose point would be the last known position of that opponent. If an opponent warship's orientation relative to its main engines is unknown, or if the opponent uses some sort of reaction-less drives, then chances are all the weapons officer would have to work with would be a sphere, most likely several thousand to maybe several million kilometers in radius.

Comprehension. The issues of unreliable scan, and of huge velocities where a ship can run into its own ordinance, make for a sort of hellish probability game. The human mind, evolved [Or built, if you're into creationism and whatnot. The mechanism doesn't matter much here.] for life on this particular planet, cannot absorb information as fast as even a real-life machine can throw out at it, much less as fast as a hypothetical futuristic computer inside a spaceship moving at half the speed of light. At the same time a computer cannot replace a human mind; a computer can only be programmed for as many contingencies as its creators could think of, and the predictability of a computer program means any human opponent could predict behavior and place a nice, shiny nuke or two in a computer-controlled warship's path. Short of positing some sort of actually sentient artificial intelligence, the limitations of the human mind when confronted by a huge and constantly shifting probability matrix, where even a single hesitation can kill the entire ship, will always be an issue at high enough velocities.

Speed Since high velocities pose such significant issues, there must be a reason for those velocities to be necessary or desirable. A warship traveling at a higher velocity than its opponent has a significant advantage. When on the offensive, a higher-velocity opponent can run past the warships defending a station or a planet, hit its target, and be far away before the defenders can reorient themselves and get enough velocity to attempt to catch the attacker. In space in general, a higher-velocity opponent can use simple kinetic projectiles to deal tremendous damage without even the need for energy-intensive rail guns or the like, since at sufficient velocities even a football-sized sphere of depleted Uranium has the same equivalent yield as a multi-megaton nuclear warhead. Obviously, a warship with a higher acceleration will tend to be more maneuverable, since it will be able to change headings at a much more rapid rate and to much greater effect.

Stealth Modern naval warfare really revolves around the basic concept of finding and hitting an opponent before it can find and hit you. The power of modern offensive weapons is one reason no modern navy bothers building heavily armored warships. To be hit a target has to be found, which is why so much effort has been placed towards making ships and airplanes and even tanks as difficult to detect as possible. Space is vast, and a ship with all but a few systems powered down and engines offline, by making as few emissions as possible would be very difficult to detect. An opponent would have to either spend much time and effort searching for possible black body objects, and attempting to distinguish between regular civilian traffic and a potentially hostile ship, or an opponent would have to power up its own scanning arrays and hope they are powerful enough to reflect off whatever absorbent material a hostile ship uses to coat its hull. Of course, by using actives, any warship makes itself a prime target for an opponent coasting at velocities best measured as fractions of the speed of light, and ready to chuck a few depleted uranium rods at an unsuspecting target. And at the velocities involved, there's really no need for any sort of hugely complicated antimatter warheads, since even the aforementioned rod of depleted uranium would have a yield relative to a multi-megaton warhead. So in sum, by being stealthy, even though the simple act of coasting without unnecessary systems or engines online, a ship could become effectively undetectable by passive means, forcing opponents to waste huge resources searching fo it, or forcing opponents to reveal themselves by using active methods and hoping to get close enough that their active emissions would get through scanner-absorbing materials.

In summary to this little digression, what space warfare would really look like if both sides were to obey basic Newtonian physics, would be something akin to modern subsurface naval warfare. Warships would preffer to remain hidden, since this would prevent them from becoming easily identifiable targets. Warships would try to achieve the highest possible velocity, since this would increase the power of their kinetic weapons, and since it would make interception that much more difficult. Warship designers would race for the most powerful engines, such that their ships could be more maneuverable. The image of two submarines listening for one another and hoping to hear some sort of noise that would reveal one without revealing the other comes to mind. Perhaps an opponent warship attacking a planet would come racing out of the system's star, putting on acceleration the entire time. Or perhaps an opponent could come in at a relatively low-velocity into the system, hoping to 'sink' merchant ships without being detected by merchant escorts coasting along and 'listening' for the emissions of an enemy warship's power plant or engine.

So really the whole argument over who is more realistic is both silly and pointless to begin with. If Mini Miehm wants to have fighters, well aware of the real-life issues such would face in an engagement, then it is his choice to have them. And it is a matter to resolve between him and his RP partners how he and they should RP.

Common courtesy escapes you does it not? Your passive-aggressive attitude, and psychological attacks are indicative of someone with their own problems, and are also not conducive to the resolution of any conflicts. Your issues include: being bossy, being downright rude, and being wholly uncooperative.

Wait... was this intended for MM? My bad.

Fighters are not effective.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HA HA HAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Fighters exist now to get munitions where they are needed because missiles do not have infinite range, and even when they do, they lack the counter-measures required to survive such long journeys. Fighters are slower than missiles, have inherently less agility, and have more technical bits that can malfunction or become damaged. They are therefore easier to shutdown within the FT environs than in MT where targeting software and AA are still catching up to fighter innovations. We don't even have to make the missiles and fighters of the same size, because proportionally, a fighter < Missile in the situation you are attempting to use them.

This is ridiculous. Truly.

A missile drone is one use only, can have its target navigation jammed, and lose sight of where it was going. A fighter can be flown on manual and the pilot eyeball his targets.

There are no phalanxes in space.

I can see you haven't read or watched very much military science fiction. Attack and defense formations are almost always arranged, whether it be a phalanx or not a phalanx.

And I find your underestimations of Spartan warfare disgusting.

MM's ship can be fast by having more power output go to his engines at the cost of hull integrity insofar as his ships require more maintenance than do others. His ships can be fast because his method of propulsion is either energy efficient, or handwaves the restraints placed upon him by gravity.

I bet he crashes a lot then... Some primitive planet could have their very own Roswell.

Now before you say anything: yes, he can handwave those things without his ships becoming paper. Otherwise, your ships are at best, air considering you claim power outputs that no-known element could ever produce, while also having the containment methods available to extract it. Don't point out the speck in his eye when you have a redwood in yours.

No known power element can pull off a lot of the shit I've seen in NS FT or science fiction in other mediums, but by golly, it's being done anyway. Hell, no known power element can open up a wormhole to other worlds inside a military base, but I hear they have a show about it.

You've yet to prove that you're play style ought to be accepted over someone who has been around longer than you have d-

Have you not seen the thread I linked to? I've been around quite a while, despite my love for Invision over Jolt.

No, your propulsion technology just sucks. See how easy that was? You're big and slow, I'm big and fast. Different paths taken, different outcome.

And you're made of paper and crash a lot. I'm slow because I'm big and have no air in a vaccuum to stop my ass.

Umm... I'm thinking...Star Trek and...Star Trek. But, I don't get out much, or watch much TV, so I'm sure I missed something somewhere.

StarGate. Even Farscape as well when they got the defense screen on Moya... shit still bleeded through.

And again, different focus, different outcome. Who's whining now? "You can't be fast cause you're big." Well fine, you can't be dangerous because you're smaller.

But apparently I am, because I have five ships that are holding their own against a hundred nebulous ships of indeterminate size and weaponry. Cannon meters aren't impressive either... they just tell you how wide the bullet is.

Vzxlack, I looked at that thread you linked (here's the relevant post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=5539561&postcount=89)), and was alarmed to see that you had a fleet of four dreads and 64 battleships to spare back in 2003. Please tell me you've vastly lowered your ship/population ratio since then.

I'm guarding an entire friggin' empire in that thread. That isn't like the tiny little border battle we have in "Find Them."

I really don't want to see this RP ruined by OOC conflict;

You and me both.

As I said in my last post, Vxzlack, by the 1000 per billion rule, you can have over 7000 ships, or something in that range, average ones anyways. What do you have instead total? I just want to know since that will help to determine how much damage I received and all that, so we can agree on this already.

I haven't counted in some time, as I haven't needed to field very many in a long time. But if you want a number, assume three quarters of the number you just gave which would be... 5250 ships.

You go for three quarters of what you can have, I go for one half. With that logic, my ships dish out and take more damage than you do. The 1000 per billion is the general rule in determining how many ships and how powerful, unofficially. If you have some other system, go ahead and explain it to me.

Back in the day I used to use a percentage of my population for military and divide that result amongst the crew numbers on my ship specs and derive the number of vessels from that. That no longer appears practical, however.

On your point, yes... your ships do appear impressive for their buck, but how much buck is spent, exactly? According to NS dossier, this is the Defense breakdown for Vzxlack, Mini Miehm, and Telros.

Vzxlack: $49,289,267,259,971.20 37%

Mini Miehm: $28,292,004,000,000.00 45%

Telros: $13,499,566,272,000.00 40%

As you can see, while your defense percentages are higher, I spend a lot more overall than both of you.

....last I checked, no one used that stuff for FT, since the stuff we do costs more than we can pay, even on NS.

....last I checked, no one used that stuff for FT, since the stuff we do costs more than we can pay, even on NS.

That's a pretty weak and desperate argument. Regardless of the actual numbers falling below the ability to buy actual starships in modern currency, it's still blatantly representative of who actually spends more on defense.

I'm willing to allow Mini Miehm his "ub3rkool" fast ships, and the utter crippling of my fifth battleship in my next post.

That is... if we can agree on that?

I am not saying I want any of that, I am just trying to work things about our tech and how we interact.

That said but I cannot believe that the defense budget that can determine how strong ships are, for my 'weak and desperate reason'. I just don't see it. If this is a problem, than I can write myself out of a budget, but it is kinda unfair, for someone who has a great nation and explains everything and has great tech...only to be taken out by someone because they have been here longer.

Sorry, but if you guys want to talk numbers... them there are numbers.

My reason still stands.

Oh it stands, all right....

http://www.thiscenturysucks.com/images/strawman.jpg

Funny. Very funny. /sarcasm.

The closest you will come to base-line acceptance of raw numbers are the UN stats, and that's not universal either. Few if anyone uses their NS budget to determine anything about their nation, because this nation simulator was not made with RPing in mind. If it did, you'd have far more control over such things as income taxes and budgetary spending, but the best you come to is answering issues that have the ancillary benefit of accomplishing what you set out to do.

Maybe on your invisionfree the calc is God, but this isn't invisionfree.

No it isn't God on my InvisionFree, but you're the people arguing numbers and thus I incorporated numbers in my argument. Ergo, you're either arguing numbers or you're not.

Which is it?

ElectronX explained it perfectly. Your excuse is now "weak and desperate".

No it isn't God on my InvisionFree, but you're the people arguing numbers and thus I incorporated numbers in my argument. Ergo, you're either arguing numbers or you're not.

Which is it?

Fallacy of equivocation; you assume the word 'numbers' in the context of this discussion means more than the quantity of ships.

The reference to numbers is not an open door to gloat about your budget; it's but a very simple and generally accepted method of determining the relative ship strength between players.

Clear now?

So you're arguing some numbers are better than others, are we? Sorry, but you can't have a piece from both cakes sir. Chocolate or strawberry. Make your choice now.

Stop demanding, dude. It isn't as clear as you try to make it out to be and you are grasping at fumes to prove your argument.

Few people, if anyone, take the route of the budget for reasons EX said, as well as no one accepts it.

So you're arguing some numbers are better than others, are we? Sorry, but you can't have a piece from both cakes sir. Chocolate or strawberry. Make your choice now.

Strawman. No one is arguing that the system previously mentioned is superior because it doesn't afford you the advantage; the system is in place, and commonly accepted by a general majority because it is simple and it works. No one uses the budget, or near no one, anyway, because that system is too cumbersome and needlessly arbitrary.

Stop trying to muddle things; those of us who aren't blind to your tactics find them trivial and tedious.

Fine then... some numbers are apparently better than others, so 74 is jealous of 42 because 42 has a series of books written about it and cameos on Lost from time to time.

Might I suggest something, though?

Dude, stop it. You're embarrassing yourself.

As for the suggestion, alright, sure. Shoot.

Fine then... some numbers are apparently better than others, so 74 is jealous of 42 because 42 has a series of books written about it and cameos on Lost from time to time.

Might I suggest something, though?

Again, strawman. Your position is that we've pulled a system of numbers out of our asses to inconvenience you. You also ignore all justifications for said system save that it exists so you may complain about it. Your suppositions are tiresome, and ineffectual.

And unless Gophers wants to hear it: then no, you can't, because in following your typical mode of operations, it's nothing but a strawman for us to beat up on.

Vzxlackian battleships make big explosions. Surely an explosion so close to its four partners will weaken their shields even further. We could have our cake (both pieces) and eat it too.

That still doesn't fix the problem. You claim your tech is better due to the budget and we are calling bullshit on that. Letting yourself getting damage is only temporary and you still will have your ships outpwn mine because of earlier said reason.

Not really, because this idea is actually based on a critical design flaw of the ships. They have extreme difficulties withstanding each other when they explode, because of all the released generator energy. It would actually teach your forces an extremely useful tactic.

Yes, but the main problem is the budget thing. If we can't fix this, we will remain in conflict, since I don't consider that a factor and you do. You treat your ships as such and such strong, I treat it lower than that. You don't believe its that way. We get conflict.

Until we resolve the budget issue, even that won't help. I'm talking as in rping together from here on out.

Chances are, I'll be avoiding your threads like the plague after this, so that point is moot.

Doesn't solve the problem. Your ships only die because you technically exploded them. No resolution of the conflict has been presented; you're still just trying to make yourself superior to everyone else.

Same here, as your budget idea is ridiculous and I can't properly rp with something I don't agree with.

So, if this issue can't be solved, I can merely write myself out of the thread. It's up to MM and AG what they want to do about this.

How does that sound?

Whatever. Go ahead and write yourself out, Telros. It was still an ample way to learn their design flaws, though.

I am not saying they aren't. The problem is as EX has said, it doesn't fix the dispute we have, and the dispute is keeping us from rping properly.

I wasn't the one who started the dispute.

Frankly I'm annoyed this even came up, because OOC arguments ruin my fun. I've had very few in the past, but they always cause that bile and ire to rise within. After this RP, you stay on your side of the fence and I stay on mine. I can tell this argument has ruined AG's fun as well. But you don't care about that... you just care about winning NationStates.

I wasn't the one who started the dispute.

Frankly I'm annoyed this even came up, because OOC arguments ruin my fun. I've had very few in the past, but they always cause that bile and ire to rise within. After this RP, you stay on your side of the fence and I stay on mine. I can tell this argument has ruined AG's fun as well. But you don't care about that... you just care about winning NationStates.

AG's not said anything.

Telros never said anything about winning nationstates.

Telros never started this.

Three suppositions and an attempt to mount the moral high-horse, all in one paragraph; some might consider that an accomplishment.

Dude, look who is calling the kettle black. Seriously, shut the fuck up. I have done my best to work this out and haven't yelled at you like others have. Its your fixation with numbers and something I don't agree with that has "ruined" it for you. I am SO sorry for having a different opinion. I won't do it again. /sarcasm.

I am plenty willing to budge for many things and if someone has higher tech, fine, but this method of how you got higher tech is bogus and I refuse to believe it. I NICELY am working this out with you and now you go all huffy.

Go back to the hole you crawled out of. No wonder you haven't posted much, no one can stand you and the way they get treated when things don't go your way.

I rp for the story, buddy, and if we are at conflict, then we can't do that, can we?

I don't focus on winning, hell, I haven't won a single battle and most battles I am getting my ass kicked, so fuck off.

Also, OOC arguments happen, a lot. Its NS, where lots of people are, it happens. Deal with it. Sometimes someone tries to pull something wanky and we aren't going to bend over backwards for them.

Also, let AG speak for himself, okay? Your boots aren't that big, Sparky. And don't make assumptions, you looked stupider that way.

You want to stay on your side of the fence.

Fine, have fun with the emptiness that yawns there.

AG's not said anything.

Also, let AG speak for himself, okay? Your boots aren't that big, Sparky. And don't make assumptions, you looked stupider that way.

I dunno... it seems like he did say something.....

I really don't want to see this RP ruined by OOC conflict; I think it has the potential for interesting long term effects, and of course it's rather important for my current storyline...

He doesn't want to see it ruined, not that it has BECOME ruined.

Read a little slower next time.

So when he typed that, you're stating that he's still having fun?

Semantics. Seriously.

I didn't say that. Stop putting words in my mouth.

I can tell this argument has ruined AG's fun as well.

not that it has BECOME ruined.

There's a word for this... starts with an L, ends in an G.

You're the big boy, why don't you lay it down for all to see?

You're the big boy, why don't you lay it down for all to see?

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/7/75/400px-Knightni.jpg

AHH!!! THE WORD!!! STOP SAYING THE WORD!!! WE CANNOT BEAR IT!!!

Uhuh, good for you that you know about the Knights of Nih. Now, how about you stop acting like a five year old, mmkay?

If you keep avoiding points like this then people will know you can't support your pathetic claims.

Actually I'm just replying for the hell of it so MM doesn't have to hunt for the thread past page 1. I eagerly anticipate his response. You've already made clear what your position is.

....ok.....

Ah come on... you can try better than that. Put some effort into your meaningless post, like I am with mine. The real deciding crux of this debate has yet to come.

:gundge::sniper::mp5:

Yeah okay, keep telling yourself that. It's good to dream, isn't it?

Actually a dream it is not. I'm balancing a choice in my hands, and whichever one is formulated will determine where this whole argument goes to rest. I have my hopes and bets on one side, but there've been pros suggested for the other balanced end.

I'll post something tomorrow, let it be known that your three quarters corresponds nicely with my own. Way to lose the superiority argument on the one really well accepted rule we have for fleets.

Very well then... we'll play your rules.

I've edited to maintain continuity. Enjoy.

Exit one ally. Enter three armadas, each from a nation big enough to make my oldest walk softly, all allied with each other, angry about encountering an unexpected FTLi field, and possibly inclined to shoot first and ask questions later.

I'm thinking the proper response is "Yikes!"...

Yes, it is within Confederate borders, which means all hell is about to break loose. It'll be fun.

And now we get into the laws of physics time. Whereby I just hit you with an 88,000 ton(81,280,000kg) projectile(assuming only ONE Destroyer hit, make it a heavy cruiser and the KE release radius is fairly terminal for your entire reinforcement fleet), at 149,896,229 meters per SECOND. That's... My calculator doesn't give me enough spaces to enter numbers for this. 1.130E24 Joules to be precise, which I'm having a pain in the ass converting into megatons, because my calculator doesn't go that high, and I'm too lazy to find the graphing calc. By comparison, the nukes that fried your BB were in the Gigaton range. These are orders of magnitude beyond the entire salvo that hit you. Per impact. Each. I'm running out of synonyms. Point is thus, most planets would be gone. Same for most 1337 fortresses of d00m, and DEAT S74r5. Sensing a pattern here? On the other hand, if that's how you desire to play the game, we can play it that way. VERY easily play it that way.

The Vascilian League does not recognize arbitrary borders in outer space. Drawing a sphere on a map is all fine and good, but legitimately defending that vast ball of space is impossible...and acting to do so is ridiculous. Calling for reinforcements in a situation such as this one is an unreasonable escalation of hostilities.

And now we get into the laws of physics time. Whereby I just hit you with an 88,000 ton(81,280,000kg) projectile(assuming only ONE Destroyer hit, make it a heavy cruiser and the KE release radius is fairly terminal for your entire reinforcement fleet), at 149,896,229 meters per SECOND. That's... My calculator doesn't give me enough spaces to enter numbers for this. 1.130E24 Joules to be precise, which I'm having a pain in the ass converting into megatons, because my calculator doesn't go that high, and I'm too lazy to find the graphing calc. By comparison, the nukes that fried your BB were in the Gigaton range. These are orders of magnitude beyond the entire salvo that hit you. Per impact. Each. I'm running out of synonyms. Point is thus, most planets would be gone. Same for most 1337 fortresses of d00m, and DEAT S74r5. Sensing a pattern here? On the other hand, if that's how you desire to play the game, we can play it that way. VERY easily play it that way.

The laws of physics tend to go out the window when it comes to FT.

To repeat a favorite phrase of mine, power output in FT means about as much as DBZ power levels.

The Vascilian League does not recognize arbitrary borders in outer space. Drawing a sphere on a map is all fine and good, but legitimately defending that vast ball of space is impossible...and acting to do so is ridiculous. Calling for reinforcements in a situation such as this one is an unreasonable escalation of hostilities.

So I could parade a battle fleet through an area two km away from your capital city, and you wouldn't bat an eye? Seems to me that national territory is just a matter of degree. It's perfectly reasonable to try to keep uninvited guests away from your inhabited systems. The larger a border you try to maintain, the harder it is to keep it under observation, and the more likely people are to slip through undetected or dispute your possession of an area. Thus, you have to strike a balance.

Personally, I have no objection OOC or IC to the Vzxlackian desire to protect their territory from intruders, though their reaction to guests seems rather extreme.

Or was that directed at MM, who didn't open fire until he was attacked? Calling in reinforcements to fight off an active assault upon one's forces hardly seems unreasonable to me.

As for the Angori, they're just stubborn. This area is well away from anything they consider their territory.

The Vascilian League does not recognize arbitrary borders in outer space. Drawing a sphere on a map is all fine and good, but legitimately defending that vast ball of space is impossible...and acting to do so is ridiculous. Calling for reinforcements in a situation such as this one is an unreasonable escalation of hostilities.

That's nice. I don't recognize the Vascilian League as much of anything other than an annoyance, so I think we're good.

Axis Nova:

Not really. If he wants his planet crushers to be as big and bad as he thinks, then he has to acknowledge that my 810 Gigatons from 3 best case impacts(only destroyers hitting) is next best thing to as good as his 900 gigaton planet killing weapon. And if he accepts either kind of cruiser hitting, that goes way out the window. A destroyer masses just 88,000 tons. A heavy Cruiser masses nearly 4(3 and three quarters actually) times that, with a concurrent increase in bang. I'm not saying he has to edit, I'm just saying that he'll have to accept the consequences of his actions when I finally post again.

On that note, my life has degenerated back into the spiraling hell that is known as a summer weekend, and I probably won't be able to post again all weekend. I may try to post tomorrow morning, but please do not count on it. I don't get off work till midnight tonight, same for tomorrow, and I've got plans afterward. And I'm about to shave and leave, so, y'all have fun, I'll be back to post again as soon as I have time.

Just too bad that dreadnoughts can survive one of their own planet crushers without difficulty. There's a reason why one can go toe to toe with a planet and then some.

You should also note that all of your suicide ships haven't kamikazed yet in my post, another reason why the damage isn't as big as you want, oh lord and master of the RP. :rolleyes:

Just too bad that dreadnoughts can survive one of their own planet crushers without difficulty. There's a reason why one can go toe to toe with a planet and then some.

You should also note that all of your suicide ships haven't kamikazed yet in my post, another reason why the damage isn't as big as you want, oh lord and master of the RP. :rolleyes:

If your Dreadnought can survive it, so can planetary shielding. Flat out. If planetary shielding(with its inherently larger, and more effective power stations) is defeated, then your Dreadnought must likewise suffer. If A then B, if not A, then not B. If A then not B is an illogical conclusion in this instance. I'll be back in 8 hours. Maybe. I dunno at this point if I'll be back in a couple days. I've given you all fair warning that there will be delays involved in this though. You'll also be happy to know that I semi-started an IC post while I wasted an hour of my precious sleep time on the internet.

Unless, of course, the power output of his dread surpasses that of a standard issue Star Wars planetary shield, which is certainly possible.

Not everything is equal in FT and you should really quit assuming that it is.

Unless, of course, the power output of his dread surpasses that of a standard issue Star Wars planetary shield, which is certainly possible.

Not everything is equal in FT and you should really quit assuming that it is.

Indeed.

Not to mention that not all planets are shielded either.

The title of the thread is "Find them!", not "Let's all get together and attack Mini Miehm!". You know why? Because the primary storyline is about the efforts of the Angelic Gophers to find three dreadnoughts belonging to their ancient enemies, the Demonic Gophers, which have vanished from under the noses of their spies. It isn't about a coalition coming to beat up MM. If you want to attack him, than by all means start an Invasion of Mini Miehm thread, but I will not have this one hijacked for such purposes. I don't mind side stories, but the primary storyline will not become a minor detail in a completely unrelated conflict. Do I make myself clear?

This is primarily to establish that these events are occurring, and isn't likely to affect anyone else directly, but feel free to join in if you wish. Just post your forces spotting a group of unknown vessels, and the situation under which this happens. If you join, please let me know what sort of sensors your ships are using and how far away they work, so I can figure out how likely my forces are to have seen you first.... There's groups wandering about all over, so you might plausibly encounter them at your border or anywhere in neutral space.

I assumed this would suffice to indicate that I did have an overall storyline in mind, and wasn't just poking around to get some random outside interaction.

Now, let's take a look at how each nation currently present entered the thread.

Angelic Gophers
Opening poster. Started the storyline by beginning a search for certain vanished enemy vessels.

Vzxlack
The first to join. Entered in precisely the method suggested in the opening post. This is the sort of thing I was expecting, if I got any response at all, though I'll admit I didn't expect to run into a 7 billion + person empire with an itchy trigger finger. No worries there, though; I don't mind losing most or all of a scout fleet.

Mini Miehm
The second to join. Intercepted fleeing Angori vessels and their Vzxlackian pursuers at or near his national border. His introductory post came with an indication that it could be help for either side, or for neither side. This made for an interesting thickening of the plot while maintaining the focus on the specific side story.

Telros
The third to join; asked permission first. Entered as forces of a nation seeking alliance with MM, and trying to earn good will. Permitted because there were still few enough forces present that it was easy to keep track of events in the thread.

Shortly after this there was an OOC argument, which swiftly brought this thread to the six page mark, involved several nations were not present in the IC thread, and resulted in the departure of Telros. However, the situation did remain calm enough for the side story to continue, without any retroactive cancellations.

Auman, Bryn Shander, and The Island States
The fourth, fifth, and sixth to join. A convoy of armadas from allied nations which encountered MM's FTLi zone while on the way to a planned set of war games. I wasn't entirely happy about this because it was drawing the side story further from the primary storyline, and because I was concerned that OOC feelings indicated in this thread might be part of their motivation. Also, the number of participants was getting rather large. I let it stand because the thread was open to all at the time they joined, and because it wouldn't be fair to block nations that opposed those fighting on my side. I posted the following to keep the potential for crowdedness under control:

OOC: OK, this is starting to get kinda crowded. Everyone who is already present, you're in. Anyone else who wants to join, either get OOC permission here, in the OOC Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=528230), or by TG, or else wait until this particular episode is over and things quiet down a bit.

Godular
The seventh to join. Asked permission by telegram, and stated an intention to keep to a non-combat role unless attacked. I figured this wouldn't result in any problems or complicate matters too much to keep track of readily, and said that was fine.

And now we come to Allanea
The eighth to enter. Did not ask permission first, unless it was in a telegram that got lost in the system. Another nation heading for above-mentioned war games. Arrived and opened fire in one post, the first by that nation in the thread.

A couple additional points...

"Sir, Miehmish, Aumanii, Shanderian vessels detected! Godularian vessel detected!"

No mention of Vzxlack's 20 km dreadnought, nor of my 120 battleships - either specifically, or as unrecognized vessels. The two nations that this side story should be focused on go completely unnoticed.


"Holy fucking testicles of Helm!" –breathed the Admiral – "We've jumped in on a real motherfucking war, have we? Ship computer, give me a tactical analysis of what is going on, stat. I wish to know whom the Miehmians are fighting."

"Apparently everybody. They sure ain't on Godular's side."

Unless I missed something, they've only opened fire on the Vzxlackian vessels. Nobody except the three original participants, and possibly Godular, should even have damaged vessels in the area. The Godulan vessel did get clipped by random shots it appeared in front of, but Godular didn't post his ship suffering actual damage from it. If nothing else, it should be obvious to any ship's computer with capabilities exceeding those of a pocket calculator that the Angori and Confederate ships aren't fighting each other, and certainly aren't the same.

The ESUS has some of the best writers in NS FT; I expect better than this from its members.



Before we continue, I want assurances that you newcomers to the thread didn't join just for the opportunity to attack Mini Miehm. Normally I'd give you the benefit of the doubt in a matter like this, but both the timing and the way you entered seem suspicious. As I said, feel free to invade him directly in a thread started for that purpose.

Also, I don't want this turning into a story about a group of allies heading for some war games getting intercepted by Confederate FTLi at the border claimed by MM. Since MM has indicated that his forces stop anyone who heads into their territory, you don't need to run into FTLi activated for another purpose to make that story possible, and it could also do just fine with a thread of its own. I have no objection to the Angori searchers getting sidetracked, but when the thread as a whole ceases to be about their search, I draw the line.

The IC thread is just three pages at this point; that's short enough to read all of before posting. There's no reason not to notice that sign-up is currently required.

So, can we settle this in a reasonable manner?

*Shakes fist at Jolt's automated log out system*

I apologize if the OOC problems that came up between me and Vxzlack derailed your thread at all, AG. Neither of us want that, I am sure that was made clear in our argument. I left so to make sure the story was intact.

And everything you said, right on the money. =P

Actually, I'd prolly be interested in helping look for those dreadnaughts. If the others agreed to take it to another thread or somethin', I'd personally be up for assisting in whatever means necessary. ICly justify it as a 'Going My Way?' kinda thing, since the Godulans are doing Cartographical surveys and wandering around aimlessly is actually conducive to that goal.

That being said, I'd had some OOC/IC business to take care of, though I was only operating under the assumption that it would just be Auman and Bryn that would be coming in. I'd fully intended to keep to a purely observational role in the combat situation, though the presence of another ESUS member popping in and shooting at them kinda puts me in a bit of a pickle. Namely, I gotta start shootin' too.

OOC:

Grr, confusion!

This what comes from not reading threads but acting on summaries someone gave you.

Do you want me to edit the post or to bow out of hte thread entirely, Gophers? I'm fine either way.

I apologize if the OOC problems that came up between me and Vxzlack derailed your thread at all, AG. Neither of us want that, I am sure that was made clear in our argument. I left so to make sure the story was intact.

And everything you said, right on the money. =P

Don't worry - I know you were both trying not to cause problems, and your departures shouldn't disrupt the storyline.

Actually, I'd prolly be interested in helping look for those dreadnaughts. If the others agreed to take it to another thread or somethin', I'd personally be up for assisting in whatever means necessary. ICly justify it as a 'Going My Way?' kinda thing, since the Godulans are doing Cartographical surveys and wandering around aimlessly is actually conducive to that goal.

That being said, I'd had some OOC/IC business to take care of, though I was only operating under the assumption that it would just be Auman and Bryn that would be coming in. I'd fully intended to keep to a purely observational role in the combat situation, though the presence of another ESUS member popping in and shooting at them kinda puts me in a bit of a pickle. Namely, I gotta start shootin' too.

Outside involvement in the long term plot? Awesomeness! As long as our respective forces don't end up trying to kill each other before this mess gets settled out, be sure the topic will come up once the shooting stops.

I understand the need for a change in plans. Can't just sit and watch while an ally is fighting a battle right in front of you (especially if they know you're there... ;) ).

OOC:

Grr, confusion!

This what comes from not reading threads but acting on summaries someone gave you.

Do you want me to edit the post or to bow out of hte thread entirely, Gophers? I'm fine either way.

Edit'll be fine, now that you've asked. I don't suppose four nations instead of three will make that much of a difference in keeping track of events.

Just remember to read at least the first and last pages before posting in a thread after this, yes? ;)

All: I had a bit of a talk on MSN, and it was decided that if the situation looks like it's going to drift too far from the main story, events will move to a new thread. Proceed at will.

I'd try putting together an IC post now, but I'm helping take the dog to the vet in the morning, so I can't stay up too late tonight.

Hell, I figured after I was done shooting that I might send a science ship to assist in your search . . . beats surveying some habitable planet in a red dwarf system. For me, the combat phase is just a shoe in the door to the main plot anyway.

Great, I start a new job, let things go for a couple measley days. Tell everyone I won't be around for a couple measely days, and all hell breaks loose. Way to go Vascillian League. The death toll is rising, and you're number one in thread homicides. I'm not even bothering with an invasion if y'all try and put one up. Dealing like you is like dealing with a pack of very small children. Not nearly worth my time, which recently doubled in value(literally).

AG, sorry about everything, did my best to salvage things for you, seem to have failed. Have fun. I won't join the new thread unless asked.

I am of the opinion that with these guys around, the plot is already doomed, if you hadn't guessed. I'll post tonight when I get home, assuming this thread still lives.

Great, I start a new job, let things go for a couple measley days. Tell everyone I won't be around for a couple measely days, and all hell breaks loose. Way to go Vascillian League. The death toll is rising, and you're number one in thread homicides. I'm not even bothering with an invasion if y'all try and put one up. Dealing like you is like dealing with a pack of very small children. Not nearly worth my time, which recently doubled in value(literally).

AG, sorry about everything, did my best to salvage things for you, seem to have failed. Have fun. I won't join the new thread unless asked.

I am of the opinion that with these guys around, the plot is already doomed, if you hadn't guessed. I'll post tonight when I get home, assuming this thread still lives.

Sweet, I got a job too!

But in all seriousness... We've spoken to the Angelic Gophers and have actually worked this out with him before proceeding further. I think if you can take the time to calm down and read the story that is about to be dished out, you might be able to enjoy the story that will be written.

Remember, in my post I did not make any threats what so ever. Neither has Nightbane. The Allaneans are beyond our control as they are not a member of the Vascilian League, so what ever issues you may have had with them prior to this event is entirely not our fault.

Also I would like to add that you are behaving like a spoiled brat. This isn't your thread and it is not your place to call the shots. This thread was started by the Angelic Gophers and thus it is his right to deny entry to any participants. Not yours.

Thank you for your time.

Sweet, I got a job too!

What a coincidince. me too!

You invade his space, he can dictate what he likes.

Seems to me that he lost all ability to dictate what happens in his space the moment he allowed it to be the setting for an open thread that he didn't create.

Telling someone what they can or cannot do with their stuff is Godmodding, Bryn.

Here I wait for you to reference our last conflict sense the whole point of your talking to me seems to be antagonistic in nature.

The irony inherent to that statement is astounding.

The irony inherent to that statement is astounding.

Agreed.

The thread belongs to Angelic Gophers, he calls the shots. It was nice that MM allowed AG the right to use his "territory" as a setting for his intellectual property.

As far as "invading" Mini Miehm's territory I'd like to make a note. This is a First Contact scenario. We've never encountered the nation nor did we know of existence, or of the absurdly large and arbitrary territorial claim that they've laid.

It's Mini Miehm's choice to try and avoid starting our relationship on bad terms by endangering the sovereign territory of another nation, especially one he's never had any contact with. He can avoid starting things on a bad footing or he can do the politically correct thing and shut down the FTLi long enough for the foreigners to do their work and get out of harms way. Or he can leave the field up and be looked upon sourly by us.

He can play ball and make some new friends or he can be belligerant and gain some new enemies.

I'm wondering when we can expect that new post that Mini Miehm's been talking about. So far, it's vaporware.

I'm wondering when we can expect that new post that Mini Miehm's been talking about. So far, it's vaporware.

Rumor has it that the post will come packaged with Duke Nukem Forever.

Could we please avoid the needless antagonization, guys? If you were wanting him to stop and give whatever storyline you had in mind a chance, it would be prudent not to provoke him further into the belief that yer not worth RPing with and ditching the whole scenario.

Making sarcastic comments is counter-productive and ill-reflecting upon those who post such.

Hey, I've been waiting for almost a week. I have a little bit of a right to be impatient right now.

It's a little something called Real life. Not every moment needs to be spent here nor does it have to be the main focus. It's finals time, so he is probably very busy.

Actually... It's "I just spent the last 10 odd hours either stuck in traffic or on the roof of a fairly tall building installing thermostats, power exhausts, and various other things pertaining to me being somewhere that isn't here" time. But Finals Time works too. We are running out of time on that job, so in a way, you are correct.

Anywho, post is still typing, addressing various points:

You have no idea how "large and absurd" my territorial claim may or may not be. As such, you will kindly quit yammering about things you can't actually speak to.

See previous bit about several fleets, a demonstrably hostile attacker, the Allaneans assaulting me, and whatever else you feel is necessary to derive the requisite response of "You must be outside your goddammed mind." If your navy is to blind to notice a murthering great battle going on RIGHT THE FUCK IN FRONT OF THEM(R), I fail to see them as any sort of credible threat. If they think that my military is stupid enough to comply with the demands of an APPARENTLY HOSTILE FLEET while well within MY OWN BORDERS and currently engaged in aforementioned murthering great battle, then you must be outside your mind. Put quite simply, you must have the most crippled up, blind, and incompetent fleet on NS if none of these details have jumped out at your commander. Furthermore, you must likewise be possessed of the most idiotic command staff on NS if they DID notice these things, and are making demands that are quite frankly moronic anyway. In short, either your navy sucks, or your navy sucks.

Please note, emphasis added as deemed necessary

Not to be a pain, MM, but how's that post coming? I understand completely about RL busyness and lack of time, but I don't want to put the storyline on hold indefinitely.

Oh, and by the way, if anyone wants to have actually seen one or more of the missing dreads, send me a TG and we can work out what happened at the time, or set up a flash-back RP. Note that all three of them survive to enter this part of the storyline later, at least two without suffering significant damage, so don't expect to kill any of them at this point.

Friends don't let friends claim borders in empty interstellar space.

I think this is the first time me and Boris have actually agreed on something in a while, its amazing...

Friends don't let friends claim borders in empty interstellar space.

We've never been friends, to the point that I insult you. Alot. On that note... It doesn't really matter if YOU and your friends recognize borders or not. You are still within what will be largely accepted as space belonging to me. You're a hostile invasion fleet. Good going.

Hey MM, before you go on about how you were attacked, lets check the scorecard:

A. You have pulled us from hyperspace
B. You have damaged our ships (at least the Auman vessels).
C. You are refusing to let us have passage through "free, neutral space."

That certainly does not sound like someone whose goal is to prevent invasion. In fact, it sounds tantamount to a state of open aggression against anyone who happens to stumble through under any intention, be it peaceful travel or otherwise.

I recommend reading the following thread to familiarize yourself with what happened the last time someone (notably myself) attempted to claim "free, neutral space". It almost ended in a full confrontation between myself and the FSP, which would have led to my own destruction, and abruptly ended when me, Ma-Tek and the FSP came to a temporary deal:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=360911

I would highly recommend reading it before you make any further claims. If you have any constructive comments or questions, please feel free to let me know. I would also look up the thread on The Planet Mars forum (the Orion Incident) to see what the usual international response to deploying FTLi is. It is from these examples that I draw my conclusions as to what my IC options may be.

Hey MM, before you go on about how you were attacked, lets check the scorecard:

A. You have pulled us from hyperspace
B. You have damaged our ships (at least the Auman vessels).
C. You are refusing to let us have passage through "free, neutral space."

That certainly does not sound like someone whose goal is to prevent invasion. In fact, it sounds tantamount to a state of open aggression against anyone who happens to stumble through under any intention, be it peaceful travel or otherwise.

I recommend reading the following thread to familiarize yourself with what happened the last time someone (notably myself) attempted to claim "free, neutral space". It almost ended in a full confrontation between myself and the FSP, which would have led to my own destruction, and abruptly ended when me, Ma-Tek and the FSP came to a temporary deal:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=360911

I would highly recommend reading it before you make any further claims. If you have any constructive comments or questions, please feel free to let me know. I would also look up the thread on The Planet Mars forum (the Orion Incident) to see what the usual international response to deploying FTLi is. It is from these examples that I draw my conclusions as to what my IC options may be.

A: Yup. That I did. Kinda the entire point after all.
B: Not my fault you guys are piss poor shipbuilders and can't handle a measley crash translation back into reality.
C: Umm... That's a matter of opinion. And at this point, opinion is that you stumbled into Terran space, with no real identifier of distance from anything. You have no idea how large a border I claim, or why I might choose to claim a border where I claim it, or much of anything. You are treating a position of nigh total ignorance as being highly informed. You haven't asked questions, or made any attempt at discerning where you are. You are quite frankly full of shit.

That's nice. I'm unmoved. Mars does not impress me at this point, except that they had sense enough to evict some unsavories with whom you associate. As for your thread, well, that's your option really. But really, it all comes down to ability to enforce a claim. If I win this little skirmish, then you and your friends(who are apparently myopic and build frail ships) will be unable to contest my claim.

Selecting only from two examples, and poor ones at that, simply shows you haven't done research, not that you are right in using those examples. It wouldn't exactly be hard for you to go around, except that, yaknow, Aumans ships break when you cough on them apparently.

Your impressions of roleplaying ability do not matter. Your conceptions of diplomacy do. You fail at diplomacy at this time, your nation is completely outclassed at this time...you chose the wrong course of action.

Instead of taking the diplomatic route you have chosen the fail of all fails.

When your people are enslaved, remember, it is your fault.

And why? Because your planning resulted in it.

As for "Poor ship building"

dude, we've never even met before. We've never once encountered FTLi...This explains a single definciency...

Furthermore, you are listing ancient news...WE IGNORED THEM FOR WANKING AND GOD MODING!!! REMEMBER THIS NUB! You are approaching that level of wank and god mode...so, srsly nub, cut it out. I'm tired of read all kinds of bitching and complaining! This is a ROLEPLAYING GAME, DUDE! SO FUCKING PLAY THE "GAME" AND QUIT MAKING MY CHEST HURT!

Seriously, I just want to write here...and you're not helping, this can probably make alot of sense because from the looks of things you are not interested in writing, you are interested in WINNING!

Cut it out and play a damn game, we can all benefit from wins and losses!

Learn how to freakin' roleplay, kid! When in outerspace, you cannot see everything! Space is a big freakin' place!

Your impressions of roleplaying ability do not matter. Your conceptions of diplomacy do. You fail at diplomacy at this time, your nation is completely outclassed at this time...you chose the wrong course of action.

Instead of taking the diplomatic route you have chosen the fail of all fails.

When your people are enslaved, remember, it is your fault.

And why? Because your planning resulted in it.

As for "Poor ship building"

dude, we've never even met before. We've never once encountered FTLi...This explains a single definciency...

Furthermore, you are listing ancient news...WE IGNORED THEM FOR WANKING AND GOD MODING!!! REMEMBER THIS NUB! You are approaching that level of wank and god mode...so, srsly nub, cut it out. I'm tired of read all kinds of bitching and complaining! This is a ROLEPLAYING GAME, DUDE! SO FUCKING PLAY THE "GAME" AND QUIT MAKING MY CHEST HURT!

Seriously, I just want to write here...and you're not helping, this can probably make alot of sense because from the looks of things you are not interested in writing, you are interested in WINNING!

Cut it out and play a damn game, we can all benefit from wins and losses!

Learn how to freakin' roleplay, kid! When in outerspace, you cannot see everything! Space is a big freakin' place!

Yes, space is a big freaking place. On the other hand at the moment, it is not. The "space" to which this battle has been constrained is well within any sane sensor range, especially if you have FTL sensors. Thus, you must be blind to miss the fact that my ships are engaged in a fight. Your ships are damaged by a crash translation from FTL, obviously not the most sturdily built ships on the spaceways. We have two demonstrably opposing sets of data, one in which you state your ships are great, and can kill everything, and one in which they are either blind or incompetently manned. Only one of these can be true, and since we see at this very moment that your ships are blind, it must be assumed that they are in fact blind.

Your rant fails to impress me, "nub". Your supreme arrogance is absolutely pathetic, and the sheer idiocy that you insist on perpetrating as the "logical diplomatic course" makes me want to cry for any children you might eventually produce. Because, yaknow, everyone lowers their defenses and acquiesces to unknown ships when they're in the middle of a battle. Cause that's totally not an idiotic thing to do. Oh that's right, you're so damn blind you can't see the other ships I'm fighting, no matter how close together our ships are. Guess that means you can't see Owens either. And you totally ignored the fact that ships accompanying you opened fire on us on sight. What does this mean children? It means that you should go ahead and write, but it also means you should read, and exercise your brain a little before you do, since thinking seems to be fairly low on your list of priorities at the moment. So, take your own advice, shut up, read the thread, and think before you post. A navy that can see is never outclassed by a navy that is as DEMONSTRABLY BLIND as yours is. At this point you have locked yourself into a choice between an incompetent commander, or blind ships. Deciding that yiou can suddenly see the Vzxlackians will be seen as god modding, since it means you'rre magically changing ships abilities midfight. Thank you come again.

Edited previous post in IC thread to correct minor typo...

Oh wait... Auman can do that too. Huh.

Miehm, I don't think you have been paying attention very well:

1. Shanderan designs != Auman designs

2. Unlike your ultra-elite crews capable of split-millisecond decisionmaking, ours require a realistic amount of time to determine what the situation actually is.

3. We don't have FTL sensors capable of reading what the enemy has had for lunch prior to deployment, all we got are tachyon pressure sensors capable of determining if someone is FTLing towards us and FTLi field placement (when we're almost on top of it) amongst other basic functions.

4. The Auman never had such sensors, nor requested the technology. I do bet you good money they are going to be asking for help after this is over.

5. The "crash translation back to reality" as you call it has greater effects against Auman designs than Shanderan designs. Worst our ships that would happen to attempt to cross the FTLi field without a fixed exit point would be a damaged FTL drive.

6. Don't expect us in a situation where we just arrived to know the specifics. IF we knew that ICly, we probably would've made an attempt to avoid it ICly. Unfortunately, you got a damaged Auman fleet group and two undamaged Shanderan and Havenite battlegroups that only see you as the reason why the Auman vessels are damaged severely. Your entire failure to respond to Auman with anything other than gunfire only reinforces our IC belief that we have fallen into some kind of FTLi trap laid down by a hostile fleet.

7. If you think we can't see you still, I'd go read up on Minovsky physics. You'll find that your lower-band EM guidance, tracking and communications systems are down. If you think the Shanderan ships are blind, I would guess again. Those ships are now in their element. The only success I think you will have is against the Auman ships that were damaged critically, but then again, you gotta get through the Shanderans and Havenites first.

8. Auman may be stuck with the choice of bad ships or being blind, the Shanderans and Havenites (now that we've gotten a chance to survey the field of battle) are stuck with the choice between good ships and an artificially-created fog of war. Oh, wait a second, we got both. :P

It is with this point that I should point out that maybe you should reread the thread, Miehm, rather than calling anyone who calls you on stuff an idiot or a moron. I expected much more, but I guess its going to be the same stuff on a different day.

Once we finalize our IC posts, then we can see how this battle turns out, rather than deciding it through your judgement and yours alone.

I'd also like to add that Aumanii ships are of a very fine design. Optimized for combat in a certain environment. Built upon a doctrinal concept that emphasizes short range combat in orbital space. The engines are finely tuned to a fault, think of ships like a Ferrari or some sort of other luxury vehicle...They are designed for short bursts of speed in confined areas. Same can be said of the sensors, which are not optimized to find FTLi fields, and why? Because the military before this point had never encountered such a technology.

How do you know how to react to something if you've never actually seen it before? Seriously, think about it for a second. I could wank and act like I have a huge depository of information on the subject, but I would be a liar.

Just because I have allowed my fleet to have a few disadvantages does not mean it sucks. It is just prepared for a different kind of war fighting. According to your rules my ships are good. I have a population of 8 billion and a fleet 1356 ships strong, thus making them roughly 8 times better than a nation of equivalent size who has 8,000 ships. These are the rules you stated in the beginning of this thread and I would hope you'd stick to them. Just because I choose to make an interesting scenario that provides Casus Belli for us even being involved does not necessarily mean my ships are bad.

You inability to actually write and role play in an effective manner, in my mind, however proves that you are a terribly inept roleplayer and diplomat.

Take a look at this situation from a reasoned, logical, point of view.

There are several hundred warships that you have never encountered before from a nation you have never heard of. This is a first contact scenario. We didn't come here looking for a fight, we had no idea this was alleged to be your territory, we had no way of even knowing. You could, like some sort of an insect, zealously defend the colony/hive/etc and attack the unknown new comers!

Or you can behave like a human being, apologize, tell us what's going on and attempt to resolve this with out being defeated in a tactical engagement against us...because, let's face it, according to your own rules, regardless of roleplay and background, our ships are pound for pound better than yours. We outnumber you at this time...and you are being attacked, ruthlessly, by a race of zealous insects who are for some reason behaving more logical than your Confederates.

There's a fine line between courage and stupidity. I applaud your efforts here, you've proved your fighting men have balls...I suppose...But you're quickly proving that you haven't a brain in your head.

In short, help us, help you.

Combat is still avoidable, you don't have to be embarassed. There's no shame in compromise.

Miehm, I don't think you have been paying attention very well:

1. Shanderan designs != Auman designs

2. Unlike your ultra-elite crews capable of split-millisecond decisionmaking, ours require a realistic amount of time to determine what the situation actually is.

3. We don't have FTL sensors capable of reading what the enemy has had for lunch prior to deployment, all we got are tachyon pressure sensors capable of determining if someone is FTLing towards us and FTLi field placement (when we're almost on top of it) amongst other basic functions.

4. The Auman never had such sensors, nor requested the technology. I do bet you good money they are going to be asking for help after this is over.

5. The "crash translation back to reality" as you call it has greater effects against Auman designs than Shanderan designs. Worst our ships that would happen to attempt to cross the FTLi field without a fixed exit point would be a damaged FTL drive.

6. Don't expect us in a situation where we just arrived to know the specifics. IF we knew that ICly, we probably would've made an attempt to avoid it ICly. Unfortunately, you got a damaged Auman fleet group and two undamaged Shanderan and Havenite battlegroups that only see you as the reason why the Auman vessels are damaged severely. Your entire failure to respond to Auman with anything other than gunfire only reinforces our IC belief that we have fallen into some kind of FTLi trap laid down by a hostile fleet.

7. If you think we can't see you still, I'd go read up on Minovsky physics. You'll find that your lower-band EM guidance, tracking and communications systems are down. If you think the Shanderan ships are blind, I would guess again. Those ships are now in their element. The only success I think you will have is against the Auman ships that were damaged critically, but then again, you gotta get through the Shanderans and Havenites first.

8. Auman may be stuck with the choice of bad ships or being blind, the Shanderans and Havenites (now that we've gotten a chance to survey the field of battle) are stuck with the choice between good ships and an artificially-created fog of war. Oh, wait a second, we got both. :P

It is with this point that I should point out that maybe you should reread the thread, Miehm, rather than calling anyone who calls you on stuff an idiot or a moron. I expected much more, but I guess its going to be the same stuff on a different day.

Once we finalize our IC posts, then we can see how this battle turns out, rather than deciding it through your judgement and yours alone.

1: Fairly obvious, thanks.

2: There are two fleets, fairly close together, and within easy sensor range of anyone that uses anything better than Eyeball Mk1, engaged in combat. When I say that your ships must be utterly blind not to see the other fleet, I mean it, literally. Even if your ships are on the far side of mine when considering Vzxlack, the range is short enough that you should be able to see them. Or notice that I'm being shot at by something that isn't you guys.

3: That's nice, as mentioned, you don't even need FTL sensors for this. The range is that short.

4: See previous bit about just how short the range is. Light speed sensors will be showing returns off my ships in 3 seconds or less, maybe a half second longer for Vzxlack. We're not talking sniper rifles at a thousand yards here. This is pistols at twenty paces.

5: Ok. Nice to know. Auman still has busted up ships.

6: Which once again illustrates that you are BLIND as fuck. As I've stated not once, not even just twice, but several times, the range is so short that we're talking nothing longer than a few seconds before you're getting returns with the most basic of sensors. If you can compose and transmit a message demanding I surrender faster than you can get a return off something that close, then we need to readdress the uber-elite crews issue.

7: Thank you for wasting my time with Anime idiocy. On the other hand, I have those FTL sensors that you lack. Minovsky particles are nothing more than a funny light show.

8: See previous mockery of anime.

You're still operating from a position of almost total ignorance. The only things you know that I don't are the locations of your ships relative to mine. And your numbers. On the other hand, you seem to lack any conception of the range at which we are operating, and uin fact never even bothered to ask, no matter how often you were told it's extremely short, meaning that I can not help but assume that you are both blind or retarded.

Auman:

Basically everything I said up above applies here, with a few added notes.

Simply because you are ignorant, and have yet to attempt to discern anything about the battlefield you barged into does not mean I cannot be diplomatic. It means that ICly, you are blind, or your commander is a blithering idiot. Those are the only things that leap out as reasonable. You emerge in my territory, in the middle of a fight, with 4 reasonably large task groups, one of which immediately OPENS FIRE ON MY FLEET, and another of which demands I turn off the FTLi and surrender. In this situation, it's not reasonable to assume that simply stopping shooting at Vzxlack will stop the violence, especially since you have already demonstrated that you'll shoot first and ask questions later. Think of it this way. Two gangs are having a gunfight, one gang already has more backup coming, when suddenly several new groups show up, and one of those groups starts shooting at one of the gangs. Odds are good that the gang engaged on two fronts is not likely to want to surrender due to the high odds of being killed anyway, if not by the new arrivals, then by the gang they were already fighting. The only reasonable choice is to select a target, and attempt to reduce it as a threat. Anything else is tantamount to suicide.

What I'm saying here is that you, Allanea, and everyone else has forced a fight that didn't need to happen, in a thread that didn't concern you, just so you could get involved. I'm certain your motives are undeniably petty, and almost certainly stem from a desire to be the big boys on the playground. It's sheer idiocy to assume that simply surrendering to one force will mean that my men survive facing the other. What this means is that I've no choice but to fight and do my damnedest to win, because I'm dead either way. Unless you know some magic by which to stop an implacably hostile opponent stop shooting for no apparent reason.

Unless you know some magic by which to stop an implacably hostile opponent stop shooting for no apparent reason.

Well what a surprise. I do.

MM, you really need to ease up on the arrogance and assumption of superiority. RP is consensual and if you piss people off enough they won't want to do it with you.

I realise that I'm in no way involved in this matter, nor am I interested it beyond the point of randomly reading through a handful of posts.

I'll therefore refrain from saying anything about the actual matters at hand. Just a minor detail (And I apologise in advance for this tangential offshot of a post)...

Furthermore, you are listing ancient news...WE IGNORED THEM FOR WANKING AND GOD MODING!!! REMEMBER THIS NUB! You are approaching that level of wank and god mode...so, srsly nub, cut it out. I'm tired of read all kinds of bitching and complaining! This is a ROLEPLAYING GAME, DUDE! SO FUCKING PLAY THE "GAME" AND QUIT MAKING MY CHEST HURT!This does not refer to Mars, I guess? After all, you've tried to come back (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1190) after your initial one-post evacuation (Quoted in Zero-One's post) and re-establishment (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=506836), suggesting that it wasn't you who did the ignoring...

Not sure whom else you could refer to, mind, and I must admit to being a little curious about whom you could mean (What can I say? I'm a sucker for gossip), but that's a secondary matter, I guess.

I'm going to be away on a trip for the next ten days or so. I may or may not have internet access sufficient to post. Please try not to kill my thread with OOC bickering while I'm gone. This is directed at ALL of you.

Just like Der Angst there, I understand that in no way am I involved in this roleplay nor its OOC effects, but as a reader of the thread something... Popped up.

7: Thank you for wasting my time with Anime idiocy. On the other hand, I have those FTL sensors that you lack. Minovsky particles are nothing more than a funny light show.

Just wondering what exactly makes you think that a Sci-Fi series which happens to be an anime is any worse a source for things than a Sci-Fi movie series (like Star Wars etcetera) or TV series (like Star Trek, Babylon 5, Firefly, Battlestar Galactica and a plethora of others) which happen to be live action ones from the West? Or even games (like Halo, StarCraft and so forth)?

And I'd like a serious answer, not something from the realm of "I h8 animu!!!!!"

Just like Der Angst there, I understand that in no way am I involved in this roleplay nor its OOC effects, but as a reader of the thread something... Popped up.



Just wondering what exactly makes you think that a Sci-Fi series which happens to be an anime is any worse a source for things than a Sci-Fi movie series (like Star Wars etcetera) or TV series (like Star Trek, Babylon 5, Firefly, Battlestar Galactica and a plethora of others) which happen to be live action ones from the West? Or even games (like Halo, StarCraft and so forth)?

And I'd like a serious answer, not something from the realm of "I h8 animu!!!!!"

Because the idiotic "Minovsky Physics" bull is often coupled with statements of "All j00r sens0r bl1nd!" and "My m0b1l3 su1t pwn j00r fightor!". And in this case, it looks like a wanky attempt to blind an opponent, while ignoring the effects of said blindness on oneself.

And I don't hate anime, I simply think that most of the people that use anything from anime are flaming idiots, and it's become fairly tainted so far as I'm concerned. I have seen exactly one person manage to do anything that was really balanced when using an Anime as a base. Thrashias ZOMG "Mobile suit kills ISD one on one." being a prime example of why anime is a bad thing, and the extremely successful and popular Masaki family of CW being the countervailing argument. Which actually isn't all that balanced at all since they're plot deviced out the butthole, come to think of it. Point is, anime almost always ends badly, in every form that I have experienced, so at this point, I see it as a crutch for noobs, or an interesting plot device when used effectively. Since I've never accused any of my current opponents of being "interesting" or having any sort of "plot", it is what it is.

Minovsky particles can be easily circumvented. They do not filter out light, remember?

Ergo LIDAR and visible-range weapons.

This does not refer to Mars, I guess? After all, you've tried to come back (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1190)

Which reminds me: Auman owes me a post in that thread.

Because the idiotic "Minovsky Physics" bull is often coupled with statements of "All j00r sens0r bl1nd!" and "My m0b1l3 su1t pwn j00r fightor!". And in this case, it looks like a wanky attempt to blind an opponent, while ignoring the effects of said blindness on oneself.

And I don't hate anime, I simply think that most of the people that use anything from anime are flaming idiots, and it's become fairly tainted so far as I'm concerned. I have seen exactly one person manage to do anything that was really balanced when using an Anime as a base. Thrashias ZOMG "Mobile suit kills ISD one on one." being a prime example of why anime is a bad thing, and the extremely successful and popular Masaki family of CW being the countervailing argument. Which actually isn't all that balanced at all since they're plot deviced out the butthole, come to think of it. Point is, anime almost always ends badly, in every form that I have experienced, so at this point, I see it as a crutch for noobs, or an interesting plot device when used effectively. Since I've never accused any of my current opponents of being "interesting" or having any sort of "plot", it is what it is.

This is more a symptom of poor RPing than it is anything wrong with anime itself. While in Gundam, at least in UC, MPT units can take out some of the earlier ship designs easily enough, it's usually not a one shot one kill deal even for super aces. The problem is that people assume that since some Gundam ships go down easily, any ship will go down easily, and this is not the case.


ninja edit: this is Axis Nova, just forgot to log into the correct nation

Minovsky particles can be easily circumvented. They do not filter out light, remember?

Ergo LIDAR and visible-range weapons.

Yep, which is why we're using light-based communications and sensing techniques.

By the way Miehm, if you have FTL sensors, how are they working in an FTLi field? I'm extremely curious as to how that works (and please no "I say it works, so it does", thats the first and only refuge for someone too lazy to at least come up with a basic method for how their stuff works).

My point is, this stuff has it's painfully obvious weaknesses, it's not a RAAWR INVINCIBILITY FIELD.

Are we going to be getting a post from Miehm any time soon? It's been a week.

Are we going to be getting a post from Miehm any time soon? It's been a week.

Hopefully some time this weekend. The internet has been twitchy recently on my end, and life has been interesting to say the least.

I hate to give deadlines, MM, but I really want to get the storyline moving again. There are outside events that this is intended to tie into eventually, and that storyline isn't waiting. If you don't post in the next couple days, I'm going to declare your ships destroyed. If you don't have time to post and don't want to accept the loss, we can retroactively substitute a non-player nation for your forces.

I would much rather see this carried out properly, but I can't wait indefinitely. Sorry about that.

Apologies to all for being away longer than expected. I blame an unspecified illness.

It's me, I am that illness :gundge:

So, how's that post coming?

Hopefully some time this weekend. The internet has been twitchy recently on my end, and life has been interesting to say the least.

So, how's that post coming?

So, how's that post coming?

So, how's that post coming?

So, how's that post coming?

So, how's that post coming?

So, how's that post coming?

So, how's that post coming?

It's me, I am that illness :gundge:

Yes. Yes, you are.

*Coughs*

Now all I need is to find the cure....


Sorry MM, but time's up.

So, how are we going to deal with the soon to be defeated Miehmish fleet? The Vascilian plan was to have all 485 ships in the combined fleet fire all forward guns at the Miehmish flagship and have our fighter cloud deal with the other ships.

Everyone who's attacking it write up a nice post describing their attack, and then we'll assume that all of his vessels were destroyed by overwhelming force. It'd be polite to take some losses in the process.

And please put a fair amount of effort into those posts. If we're going to wipe away his forces by declaration, we can at least do it well.

Well, we were going to wait until he responded to the Aumanii missile barrage first, but I suppose we could just skip ahead. His fleet is focusing on the Allaneans, however, so I don't see our fleet taking enough concentrated fire to do significant damage to any ships let alone sink any. We've got him outnumbered probably 10:1, and then the Allaneans have him outnumbered 4:1 or so. We'll probably lose a fair amount of fighters though.

Hey V, what's this about "Neither side suspected that this skirmish was the least of their major concerns."?

IC post coming, but I wanted to try to catch you with this question while you were still on.

It's foreshadowed in the last paragraph. The obliteration of Miehm's fleet is going to be a bit painful for us both due to overshots.

Ah, got it. Thanks for the clarification.

Not so much overshots so much as over penetration.

This is the general effect that our alpha strike will be having on the Miehmish fleet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDz13OSIumU

As you can imagine, that massive amount of fire isn't going to stop just because of the fact that Miehm's toys are gone. I hadn't realized that the Angori fleet was on the other side of the Vzxlackians from the Miehmish fleet when the order to fire was given. >_>;

Just so everyone's aware, I'm working on a post that will include the destruction of MM's fleet. It'll be up as soon as it's done.

Should I post afterwards something with the Godulans maybe standing down their weapons simply because as they were about to fire there was already enough ordinance flying that they just HAD to stand back and watch while munching popcorn?

Sure, go for it.

Let's hurry up and get this battle finished, shall we? The Angori still have some dreadnoughts to track down....

That lazy sack of shit New Haven needs to post.

I'd like to see final posts for the battle, coming up here.

Battle is now over. The Vzxlackians are gone and the Gophers aren't being hostile. I suppose that the final word is up to Auman now, but I believe that the Vascilians will try to get out of the area quickly now.