NationStates Jolt Archive

Noting that there is still a chance for peace, Kampfers wishes for all involved nations to come to Kampfers Stadt and attend a peace conference. Currently there is one deal on the table from Demon 666. We are awiting the official Hatarian word on the offer, wether it will be rejected, countered, or acccepted.

The Demon 666 proposal:

1. The maximum limit for the entire Hatarian army will be cut to 50 million

2. A formal peace treaty will be signed between the Empire of Hataria and the Imperial Empire of Demon 666.

3. A written gurantte from all countries assisting in the rebuilding of Hatarian shall be signed so that in the case of a new Hatarian belligerency, these countries will all declare war on Hataria.

4. A formal apology from the Transylvanian government for the highly insulting response they gave us when we proposed Proposition 3 for the first time.

After much talk of war, thus far no violent acts have been commited. We in Kampfers wish to keep it that way. We know of only one peace offer on the table, that being by Demon 666. We believe that now is the time we must act to prevent this conflict from spreading. Please tell us your terms, and we will negotiate until we reach a suitable medium.

STOP OPENING THESE TOPICS. You're not even a major party to what is going on here.

This thread is by no means sanctioned by me or anyone else on the Haven side, and I'll personally be ignoring whatever goes on here.

I find it strange that Blub has to endorse any thread made about a conflict his is indeed involved in. Weather or not this thread mean anything to you Blub seems retarded as he could make a deal with someone on an opposing side that would help a certain side. But Blub wants to be the big bad ring leader.... shamful

Demon 666 seems to be a blub supporter and he was the first to lay out a treaty proposal. Just more arrogance coming from Haven I suppose..not a surprise there really but oh well.

OOC:
Blub.

Last time I checked, a thread doesn't have to be "sanctioned" by anyone for it to start. If Kampfers wants to help push a diplomatic solution, then he has a right to. It's not your place to say "OMG, SHUT UP AND DELETE THIS THREAD" as your not the OP or the owner of the thread.

I find it strange that Blub has to endorse any thread made about a conflict his is indeed involved in. Weather or not this thread mean anything to you Blub seems retarded as he could make a deal with someone on an opposing side that would help a certain side. But Blub wants to be the big bad ring leader.... shamful

OOC:
Blub.

Last time I checked, a thread doesn't have to be "sanctioned" by anyone for it to start. If Kampfers wants to help push a diplomatic solution, then he has a right to. It's not your place to say "OMG, SHUT UP AND DELETE THIS THREAD" as your not the OP or the owner of the thread.

OOC: Thanks for the support guys. I guess I'll open this back up...

OOC:
Blub.

Last time I checked, a thread doesn't have to be "sanctioned" by anyone for it to start. If Kampfers wants to help push a diplomatic solution, then he has a right to. It's not your place to say "OMG, SHUT UP AND DELETE THIS THREAD" as your not the OP or the owner of the thread.

OOC: I have to agree with you on that one Shaz, Blub has no right to order a Thread He didn't 'Sanction' to Be Deleted.

Ollieland would suggest that the proposed armed forces restraintts seem somewhat vague. Might we suggest that if Hataria must have limitations they be specific, such as number of aircraft, tonnage of ships. Might we also suggest that manpower limits be placed as a percentage of population rather than a number.

I support Demon666's terms although the military terms need to be less vague.

ooc: well I did have a list of very specfic restraints on Hataria's military buut after blub said no one from Haven would recognize the thread I deleted it..I can repost it if you all want me 2..

This thing thing has annoyed me for awhile now. In the beginning I called for a tougher military limitation but no one listened. I guess they didn't forsee future conflicts.

ooc: well I did have a list of very specfic restraints on Hataria's military buut after blub said no one from Haven would recognize the thread I deleted it..I can repost it if you all want me 2..

ooc: sure, repost them, and we can discuss them

Hatarian Military Restraints

1. Military personell for all branches will not exceed 60 million

2. No WMD's of any kind

3. Only 2 aircraft carriers allowed in the new Hatarian fleet

4. No Ballistic missle subs, or any other systems capable of delivering Ballistic missles or like weapons includes Missile silos

5. No long range bombers or strike craft

6. No more than 1 million tanks allowed in the Hatarian army

7. No orbital weapons systems, Survey satellites would be allowed with no weapons capabilities

8. No Superdeadnaughts allowed in the Hatarian Navy, the Hatarian navy would not be allowed to have any vessels except for those needed for coastal defense purposes. in other words no amphibious assault ships etc etc..

9. The allowance of International inspectors to ensure that all previous measures are agreed to in a satisfactory manner

10. Hataria can not produce a surplus of any type of weapon and may only put weapons into production to replace old equipment. Only allowed to produce arms after International inspectors confirmed the old equipment has been destroyed.

Hatarian Military Restraints

1. Military personell for all branches will not exceed 60 million

2. No WMD's of any kind

3. Only 2 aircraft carriers allowed in the new Hatarian fleet

4. No Ballistic missle subs, or any other systems capable of delivering Ballistic missles or like weapons includes Missile silos

5. No long range bombers or strike craft

6. No more than 1 million tanks allowed in the Hatarian army

7. No orbital weapons systems, Survey satellites would be allowed with no weapons capabilities

8. No Superdeadnaughts allowed in the Hatarian Navy, the Hatarian navy would not be allowed to have any vessels except for those needed for coastal defense purposes. in other words no amphibious assault ships etc etc..

9. The allowance of International inspectors to ensure that all previous measures are agreed to in a satisfactory manner

10. Hataria can not produce a surplus of any type of weapon and may only put weapons into production to replace old equipment. Only allowed to produce arms after International inspectors confirmed the old equipment has been destroyed.

2 questions. 1) Are these terms negotiable?
2) For the purposes of Hataria, is Excalibur a WMD?

Yes the terms are Negotiable this is merely a proposal that i believe puts very strong limits on Hataria's Military which will prevent Hataria from being a threat..what is Excalibur? Also i would like to add that these terms would remain in effect until the drafting parties decided by majority vote to lift them.

Yes the terms are Negotiable this is merely a proposal that i believe puts very strong limits on Hataria's Military which will prevent Hataria from being a threat..what is Excalibur? Also i would like to add that these terms would remain in effect until the drafting parties decided by majority vote to lift them.

OK. Excalibur (from Ace Combat Zero) is a laser weapon that shoots its laser off mirrors to reflect it to destroy large ships, etc... It is currently shut down, but will be back up, and Hataria might wish to have one installed.

I would count Excalibur to be a WMD then..as it could be used to target cities as well..

I personally think Hataria doesn't need Excalibur. It would be too much of a liability.

OOC: The Dominion Commonwealth classifies Excalibur as a WMD AFAIK, and hence ownership of one would most likely contradict Hataria's obligations under the Treaty of the Second Age. Hence, there would be no point in Hataria operating one since it's global range alone allows offensive strikes if it's operational; whatever power level we agree on once the debate around Excalibur is settled. I say 'let's just not go there...' Hataria doesn't need it with several of his allies operating Excaliburs, and having it would be a massive violation of his own IC word. So yeah, what you guys say...

OOC: I was just wondering. We need to wait for Hataria to respond.

ooc: I say if its considered a WMD by DC and violates the new treaty then no access to excalibur for Hataria...plus I dont see how a weapon of that type would be defensive..which is what Hataria's Military needs to be molded into, a force capable of defending Hataria alone and not having any offensive capabilities.

We applaud Kampfers for being a beacon of common sense in this situation, and fully support Demon666's treaty. As I recall, Barronia was among the first to claim that it would sign said treaty, and we stand by that.

We are, however, still concerned that the Blub Colony is not willing to participate in peace talks, even when said peace talks meet it's "demands". We call upon them to show their faces and we would like to see where they have any justification for this warfare, should Hataria agree to sign.

The Hegemony supports this treaty, and implore the agressor nations not to bring ruin and death upon the world just to commit genocide upon the Hatarans, an evil act in of itself.

We also applaud Kampfer's for setting an example to the world,we shall sign Demon666's treaty, and we implore Blub to stop attacking Hataria and sign the treaty,for it would be a just an admirable thing for Blub to do.

Lord Govenor Jack Slovic
Calizorinstan

The Greater Honakon region hopes peace can be agreed on before this war developes any further and we have to get involved due to our ties to various alliances. Therefore, we support Demon666's treaty and suggest people end this.

- Lord Governess Bourla Parkins of Greater Honakon

As one of the allied nations, our blood-debts demand us to fight alongside The Silver Sky against Hataria. However, we beseech all the parties involved to stop the escalation.

OOC: Dammit, I was about to start a white war somewhere else!

Kampfers thanks all the nations for their support. We would sign this treaty, if the terms are agreeable for The Blub Colony and Hataria.

The peope's republic of North Calaveras agrees that peace is the best solution, no more bloodshed. I will even donate workers to help rebuild.

As will the Kingdom of Shredderstan. We will give 1,000 workers and $9,000,000

Official Free Dominion of Vetaka Diplomatic Message:

To: <Open Communication>
From: Vetakan Foreign Affairs

Subject: Vetakan Support of Peace Treaty

The Free Dominion of Vetaka is in full support of Peace and any Peace Treaties that are in the ball game. Vetaka will commit whatever is required of her in order to make peace work. We hope that both nations will accept peace so that Millions of Lives can be saved and Billions more can be saved from Heartache.

Yours with best regards

Scarlet Rogers

President of the Free Dominion of Vetaka
Lord Governor of the Free Dominion of Vetaka
Supreme Commanding Admiral in Chief of the Vetakan Defence Forces

ooc: well if anything with the Haven parties refusing to even come to the talks they just loose more moral high ground which we can use to persuade other nations to our side

ooc: well if anything with the Haven parties refusing to even come to the talks they just loose more moral high ground which we can use to persuade other nations to our side

OOC: We only lose the moral highground if Hataria agrees to and comes the talks, which he hasn't. All this thread as been is useless, and it will stay that way unless Hataria agrees.

ooc: its not difficult to spin things either..and if the people who defeated Hataria the last time made the treaty specific like they want to change it now then we wouldn't have this problem now...and As I said earlier I'm only supporting Hataria because revenge isn't just grounds for war especially since Hataria has already been defeated..that alone loses the moral high ground

ooc: its not difficult to spin things either..and if the people who defeated Hataria the last time made the treaty specific like they want to change it now then we wouldn't have this problem now

OOC: Ah, but we didn't have the chance. He got up, got angry, and left, then came back a week later and said the war was over. We tried to communicate with him, but by and large we got ignored, then we started a blockade and... well, other nations felt sorry for him so they helped him. He never talked diplomatically with us, except for once when he asked for our surrender.

ooc: But he obviously signed a treaty somewhere to get put on Trans' "leash" anyways and I still don't find revenge decent grounds for war..I am contemplating leaving the rp at least as being on one side or another as i am starting to both get bored and annoyed with certain things..I am contemplating taking a 3rd party approach in the Interest of the Hatarian people to ensure the civilians are safe as possible..although I don't know if anyone would allow me to do that without me having to choose a side..

ooc: I am contemplating taking a 3rd party approach in the Interest of the Hatarian people to ensure the civilians are safe as possible..although I don't know if anyone would allow me to do that without me having to choose a side..

OOC: I'd be on your side. I'm not currently liking the way this is looking, either.

ooc:yes and while I dont have good relations with everyone on either side i do have some friends on both sides as well..perhaps we can combine into a 3rd Humanitarian Neutral party?

ooc:yes and while I dont have good relations with everyone on either side i do have some friends on both sides as well..perhaps we can combine into a 3rd Humanitarian Neutral party?

OOC: Sounds good, I think we might be able to get more people involved in this too.

OOC: We only lose the moral highground if Hataria agrees to and comes the talks, which he hasn't. All this thread as been is useless, and it will stay that way unless Hataria agrees.

OOC: Thank you, you are about to lose that 'Moral Highground'

IC: The Second Empire will join any talks that will start, only if it will be a The Principality of Kurona, which is a Nuteral Nation and is alot closer to Hataria.

OOC: Thank you, you are about to lose that 'Moral Highground'

IC: The Second Empire will join any talks that will start, only if it will be a The Principality of Kurona, which is a Nuteral Nation and is alot closer to Hataria.

OCC: Can he so blatenly use that OCC information to use it ICly?

OCC: Can he so blatenly use that OCC information to use it ICly?

OOC: and who says he wasnt going to agree anyway?

OOC:
Feeling sorry for a nation is also not basis for defending such a nation. Thus be Germany after The Great War. If I was not educated, I would have turned my back towards my defeated enemy. However, now that I have a much better understanding of such things, I would lend a hand. No, I will not sign such a treaty, but I will tell you why.

1) This treaty is restricting Hataria of things necessary for defense.
2) This treaty is enacting that all parties involved in attacking Hataria are 'bullies' and wanted to seek revenge.
3) This treaty is restricting Hataria of natural rights.
4) This treaty does not help improve Hataria.

If you really want the nation of Hataria to be better, then don't punish it even further by restricting its ability to survive. Rid its lands of monarchy, and enforce an influence on its government and economy. You do not want to set up a Pre-WWII Germany, do you?

OOC:
Feeling sorry for a nation is also not basis for defending such a nation. Thus be Germany after The Great War. If I was not educated, I would have turned my back towards my defeated enemy. However, now that I have a much better understanding of such things, I would lend a hand. No, I will not sign such a treaty, but I will tell you why.

1) This treaty is restricting Hataria of things necessary for defense.
2) This treaty is enacting that all parties involved in attacking Hataria are 'bullies' and wanted to seek revenge.
3) This treaty is restricting Hataria of natural rights.
4) This treaty does not help improve Hataria.

If you really want the nation of Hataria to be better, then don't punish it even further by restricting its ability to survive. Rid its lands of monarchy, and enforce an influence on its government and economy. You do not want to set up a Pre-WWII Germany, do you?


OOC: I think you are going about it The wrong way Delphire.

OOC: and who says he wasnt going to agree anyway?

OCC: He quoted the passage and said, " Let' see you lose moral high ground." or something to the effect.

IC:

We propose the following. Hataria clearly loves gladatorial combat. We will put our greatest champion against Hataria's greatest champion. If Hataria wins, we go away and leave them alone.

If we win, Hataria agrees to the following:

1. Military personel for all branches will not exceed 50 million. - Hataria formally agreed to a limit of 60 million already. However, reports indicate they have already broken this agreement.

2. No WMD's of any kind.

3. Only four aircraft carriers allowed in the new Hatarian fleet. This includes helicopter carriers and escort carriers.

4. No ballistic missle submarines, or any other capability to deliver ICBMs.

5.) No long range bombers or strike craft. This means a range of 1,000 nautical miles.

6.) No more than 100,000 tanks allowed in the Hatarian army. Vehicles mounting guns greater than 105mm count as a 'tank' for this purpose.

7.) No orbital weapons systems, Survey satellites would be allowed with no weapons capabilities.

8.) No Superdeadnaughts, the Hatarian navy would not be allowed to have any vessels except for those needed for coastal defense purposes. in other words no amphibious assault ships etc etc.

9. The unconditional allowance of international inspections to ensure that all previous measures are agreed to in a satisfactory manner.

10. Hataria can not produce a surplus of any type of weapon except for export and may only put weapons into production to replace old equipment. Hataria may not have 'leased' or 'reserve' equipment stored in other nations as a means of bypassing.


Then again, Hataria could simply agree to this and end the fighting now.

To:Blub Colony, and Hataria

We would agree on this treaty, except we have no evidence of Hataria breaking it's 50 million men limit. We believe that if you agreed to Gatway's treaty, we have already agreed to it, and we agree to your's now, we suggest Hataria agree to this treaty and stop this pointless fighting on your part Blub.

Lord Governor Jack Slovic
Calizorinstan

IC:

We propose the following. Hataria clearly loves gladatorial combat. We will put our greatest champion against Hataria's greatest champion. If Hataria wins, we go away and leave them alone.

If we win, Hataria agrees to the following:

1. Military personel for all branches will not exceed 50 million. - Hataria formally agreed to a limit of 60 million already. However, reports indicate they have already broken this agreement.

2. No WMD's of any kind.

3. Only four aircraft carriers allowed in the new Hatarian fleet. This includes helicopter carriers and escort carriers.

4. No ballistic missle submarines, or any other capability to deliver ICBMs.

5.) No long range bombers or strike craft. This means a range of 1,000 nautical miles.

6.) No more than 100,000 tanks allowed in the Hatarian army. Vehicles mounting guns greater than 105mm count as a 'tank' for this purpose.

7.) No orbital weapons systems, Survey satellites would be allowed with no weapons capabilities.

8.) No Superdeadnaughts, the Hatarian navy would not be allowed to have any vessels except for those needed for coastal defense purposes. in other words no amphibious assault ships etc etc.

9. The unconditional allowance of international inspections to ensure that all previous measures are agreed to in a satisfactory manner.

10. Hataria can not produce a surplus of any type of weapon except for export and may only put weapons into production to replace old equipment. Hataria may not have 'leased' or 'reserve' equipment stored in other nations as a means of bypassing.


Then again, Hataria could simply agree to this and end the fighting now.

Hataria sent this reply.

We already Signed a treaty, It is Called The 'Treaty of The Second Age. The Dominion and Me Signed it, you have no more right to Empose your Dictatorship on Hataria then you have to be a God.

Signed:Barbarossa II of Hataria

Hataria sent this reply.

We do not claim to be gods. However, we were given no say in any of the mandates of the old treaty. If you truely are a peaceful nation then it should come at no expense to agree to these DEFENSIVE AIMED requirements.

You know we are willing to go to war and force the mandates on you if necessary.

However, you deem yourselves unwilling to sign on. To prevent massive bloodshed, we suggest.. a duel. To the death. Blade on blade. Your champion versus ours.

OOC: I think you are going about it The wrong way Delphire.

OOC:
What part of my thoughts are wrong? You need to specify more clearly.

The United Kindom of British Londinium
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/2046/545pxblasonvillefrbeaufdr2.png
Official Communiqué

To Hataria:

As you may or may not know, British Londinium stands on your side in this conflict, compromising our national security to do so, as the very people who wish to attack you have forcibly installed military bases in our nation. Why do we do this? Sovereignty. We fight on your side so that sovereignty may be maintained for nations around the world. But your stubbornness and inability to compromise is sickening. Dozens of other nations also defend you, putting millions of lives on the land, and you treat them as cavalierly as a chess player would with his pawns. I urge that you negotiate a peacy treaty forthwith.

Sincerely,
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2462/signkc8ht0.png
The Rt. Hon. Alistair Davidson, MP
Prime Minister of British Londinium

Message to Hataria

The Imperial Kingdom is aware of your tendency for aggressive military actions and your habit of breaking previous treaties. Our proposal may be a bit harsh and after listening to Dephire a more balanced treaty could be negotiated. The Imperial Kingdom is uncomfortable with the idea of having only the Dominion Commonwealth to keep your forces in check, or you could accept the offer of a duel by the Blub colony as this is an honorable resolution and alternative to open conflict. The forces of the Imperial Kingdom stand to defend only the region of Mediterranica and to save the people of Hataria, We however will not provide protection for your current regime.

Emperor Nadov III of Gataway

OOC: Proposed Treaty:-

IC:

In a last attempt to try and stop the impending war and avoid the loss of millions of lives. The Vetakan Government wrote and proposed a treaty to end the deadlock:

The Treaty of Total Peace:

1. Military personel for all branches will not exceed 55 million. Reserve Forces will not exceed further than 2 Million as such Total Man Power will not exceed further 57 Million

2. No WMD's of any kind.

3. The Hatarian Naval Fleet will be limited to 15 Carrier Units

4. No ballistic missle submarines, or any other capability to deliver ICBMs.

5.) No long range bombers or strike craft. This means a range of 1,000 nautical miles.

6.) No more than 200,000 tanks allowed in the Hatarian army.

7.) No orbital weapons systems, Survey satellites would be allowed with no weapons capabilities. Pearce Weapons Inc would provide a free OBSAT Defence System with only Defence Capacity.

8.)The Hatarian Navy will be allowed 1 Superdeadnaught to act as a Flagship, the Hatarian navy would be allowed a Naval Fleet for Defence Purposes only.

9. The Second Empire will allow ramdom Searches of all Military Installations 3 times a year by a Joint International Committee provisonally consisting of Blubland, Clandonia, Transylvania, Vetalia and Shazbotdom.

10. Hataria can not produce a surplus of any type of weapon except for export.

11. This Treaty will be reviewed within a period of 90 NS Years (3 RL Months) with the intent to ease the restrictions. The reviewing body will consist of the following nations Blubland, Clandonia, Transylvania, Vetalia and Shazbotdom.

12. Blub will not pursue revenge or hostilities with Hataria and both nations agree to be formally be diplomatically civil towards eachother in the future.

OOC: Shaz you are included as I wanted to include a neutral nation if you do not want to be involved then we can find somebody else.

OOC:
Am I not to be included in this treaty? I still see that these treaties are only enacting upon Military. There are no reforms going towards the economy nor the government. Also, why are these treaties enacting upon an already scarred Hataria and not the DC nations that acted with Hataria? I see no fairness in placing this treaty just on Hataria. From what I can recall, it was the Blubs who declared open hostilities towards Hataria. GOSH DARN IT! I'm Becoming Liberal AGAIN!!! *Smacks self*

In any sense, I'm in support of Haven. Whatever the majority of Haven does, I shall do as well.

OOC: Can I be included in the reviewing committe?

Hataria, quit being so goddamn stubborn. If you refuse to negotiate then you are only signing your own death warrant.

OOC:
Am I not to be included in this treaty? I still see that these treaties are only enacting upon Military. There are no reforms going towards the economy nor the government. Also, why are these treaties enacting upon an already scarred Hataria and not the DC nations that acted with/against Hataria?

Afraid not old boy as I didnt want to crowd it and what would you propose happen to the DC?

1. Military personel for all branches will not exceed 55 million. Reserve Forces will not exceed further than 2 Million as such Total Man Power will not exceed further 57 Million

2. No WMD's of any kind.

3. The Hatarian Naval Fleet will be limited to 15 Carrier Units

4. No ballistic missle submarines, or any other capability to deliver ICBMs.

5.) No long range bombers or strike craft. This means a range of 1,000 nautical miles.

6.) No more than 200,000 tanks allowed in the Hatarian army.

7.) No orbital weapons systems, Survey satellites would be allowed with no weapons capabilities. Pearce Weapons Inc would provide a free OBSAT Defence System with only Defence Capacity.

8.)The Hatarian Navy will be allowed 1 Superdeadnaught to act as a Flagship, the Hatarian navy would be allowed a Naval Fleet for Defence Purposes only.

9. The Second Empire will allow ramdom Searches of all Military Installations 3 times a year by a Joint International Committee provisonally consisting of Blubland, Clandonia, Transylvania, Vetalia and Shazbotdom.

10. Hataria can not produce a surplus of any type of weapon except for export.

11. This Treaty will be reviewed within a period of 90 NS Years (3 RL Months) with the intent to ease the restrictions. The reviewing body will consist of the following nations Blubland, Clandonia, Transylvania, Vetalia and Shazbotdom.

12. Blub will not pursue revenge or hostilities with Hataria and both nations agree to be formally be diplomatically civil towards each other in the future.

13. The Government of Hataria shall embrace Democracy and hold open elections for all Government positions every 5 years. The head of state of Hataria will agree to have limited powers and will maintain a council or parliament, both the head of state and council must agree on matters before enacting new laws etc as this provides a balance of power.

14. The Ratifying members of this treaty will agree to aid in the rebuilding process of Hataria's Infrastructure and economic development, in exchange Hataria shall agree to have free and open trade between itself and the ratifying members of this treaty

Afraid not old boy as I didnt want to crowd it and what would you propose happen to the DC?

OOC:
I really don't know. All I see is that it is unfair for Hataria to be the focus of the treaty. Maybe force the DC to lower their defenses of Hataria and allow foreign advisors from other alliances in addition to their own.

I have a problem with number 12. It should be that no nation can get revenge on Hataria. That way if someone goes all revenge in the future, everyone who signs the treaty can avoid getting into a problem like this again because of alliances and wanting revenge themselves. What does everyone else think?

OOC: You can't force democracy onto a country that quite obviously doesn't want it, aka Iraq.

OOC:I really don't know. All I see is that it is unfair for Hataria to be the focus of the treaty. Maybe force the DC to lower their defenses of Hataria and allow foreign advisors from other alliances in addition to their own.

OOC: This all I got to say about that….THATS FUCKING BULLSHIT! He is a DC member and we’ll not lower defenses of Hataria. I hate peopel whom force things on others.

OOC:
I'm well aware that you cannot force a democracy down upon the people of an Absolute Monarchy. You have to do it little-by-little. No nations shall be allowed to strike at Hataria without cause after the signing of the final draft of the treaty is written.

OOC: Figure if I'm to get this in, now's the time.
IC
Official USSW Message to the Second Empire of Hataria
Although we defend our honor, and the obligations comprising it, we humbly ask that you refrain from cheapening this. Various neutral powers, such as our fast friends in the Dark Empire of Shazbotdom have seen, and even your bitterest enemies have begun to see, the wisdom in peace; so please do so yourselves. We back our ally Vetaka's treaty proposal and any resonable derivations thereof; saying any further would be touching upon matters of Dominion Commonwealth policy best served by the Lord Marshal's word on the matter. We honor our obligations, whatever comes of them; and merely ask the same of the Second Empire as your allies. That is all.

Sincerely,
Carolinus Horridus
Commander-in-Chief, USSW War Office
Party Secretary, Wagdoggie Revolutionary Party
General Secretary, USSW Revolutionary Command Council
Lord Governor, United Socialist States of Wagdog

well what if instead of a full democracy there was an establishment of something like a parliament that meets with the "king" and the parliament officials are elected? that way the people at least get some sort of a say in the government and it would be a small step towards democracy

well what if instead of a full democracy there was an establishment of something like a parliament that meets with the "king" and the parliament officials are elected? that way the people at least get some sort of a say in the government and it would be a small step towards democracy

OOC:
Introduce a Consitutional Monarchy...good idea. Worked with Britain.

1. Military personel for all branches will not exceed 55 million. Reserve Forces will not exceed further than 2 Million as such Total Man Power will not exceed further 57 Million

2. No WMD's of any kind.

3. The Hatarian Naval Fleet will be limited to 15 Carrier Units

4. No ballistic missle submarines, or any other capability to deliver ICBMs.

5.) No long range bombers or strike craft. This means a range of 1,000 nautical miles.

6.) No more than 200,000 tanks allowed in the Hatarian army.

7.) No orbital weapons systems, Survey satellites would be allowed with no weapons capabilities. Pearce Weapons Inc would provide a free OBSAT Defence System with only Defence Capacity.

8.)The Hatarian Navy will be allowed 1 Superdeadnaught to act as a Flagship, the Hatarian navy would be allowed a Naval Fleet for Defence Purposes only.

9. The Second Empire will allow ramdom Searches of all Military Installations 3 times a year by a Joint International Committee provisonally consisting of Blubland, Clandonia, Transylvania, Vetalia and Shazbotdom.

10. Hataria can not produce a surplus of any type of weapon except for export.

11. This Treaty will be reviewed within a period of 90 NS Years (3 RL Months) with the intent to ease the restrictions. The reviewing body will consist of the following nations Blubland, Clandonia, Transylvania, Vetalia and Shazbotdom.

12. Blub will not pursue revenge or hostilities with Hataria and both nations agree to be formally be diplomatically civil towards each other in the future.

13. The Government of Hataria shall embrace Democracy and hold open elections for all Government positions every 5 years. The head of state of Hataria will agree to have limited powers and will maintain a council or parliament, both the head of state and council must agree on matters before enacting new laws etc as this provides a balance of power.

14. The Ratifying members of this treaty will agree to aid in the rebuilding process of Hataria's Infrastructure and economic development, in exchange Hataria shall agree to have free and open trade between itself and the ratifying members of this treaty


The Second Empire will not Agree to Number 13 of Gataway's treaty as it is made to Destroy The Hatarian Governmet.

also Emperor Barbarossa II will Sign Vetaka's Treaty, In The Peace talks in front of all Nations.

Yes I am aware of that..so now to outline the Monarchies powers...

13. The Government of Hataria will accept the creation of a council of elected officials and will write up a constitution which will place set limits on the powers of the Monarchy.The constitution would be written by Hataria and then submitted to the ratifying powers to ensure that the Monarchy can not turn back to its old dictatorial ways.

Does the second Empire find these terms more favorable.?

I would like to propose a requirement for Hataria.

1. Hataria will have no military. They will be supported by a group of nations banded together, forming a peacekeeping force in Hataria. They will still have a limited navy and airforce, however. 5 carriers at all time.

2. No WMD, nuclear weapons at all times.

3. Offensive, ICBM/long-ranged missiles are banned.

4. Space weaponry are banned.

5. Superdreadnaughts for the navy will be only 1.

However, to the Blubs.

1. Hostilites are settled.

2. Missiles, ICBMs, etc. are to not be pointed at Hataria.

3. An annual payment to Hataria is required for reparations.


The Leocardian International Peacekeeping Forces (LIPF) will be willing to provide Hataria the defense of soldiers in Hataria, able to deploying as many as 23 million soldiers, and other unlisted deployments. If this treaty, called the Hatarian Defense Organization, is passed, Leocardia, and other allied forces, will join together in organizing a massive defense force in Hataria.

The Second Empire will not Agree to Number 13 of Gataway's treaty as it is made to Destroy The Hatarian Governmet.

also Emperor Barbarossa II will Sign Vetaka's Treaty, In The Peace talks in front of all Nations.

Look, I'm going to suggest this to end a long and bitter argument, but please just sign the damn contract that limits the monarchy's powers. This would make everyone happier and bring your nation out of the Dark Ages. I'm getting tired of trying to be a nice and calm guy here. Democracy is a good thing. You can still keep the monarchy, but it will be a limited monarchy with an elected Prime Minister.

Good idea, thats exactly what were looking for. But you guys know theres already an elected leader of Hataria right? The Khagan, who works with the Emperor.

I would like to propose a requirement for Hataria.

1. Hataria will have no military. They will be supported by a group of nations banded together, forming a peacekeeping force in Hataria. They will still have a limited navy and airforce, however. 5 carriers at all time.

2. No WMD, nuclear weapons at all times.

3. Offensive, ICBM/long-ranged missiles are banned.

4. Space weaponry are banned.

5. Superdreadnaughts for the navy will be only 1.

However, to the Blubs.

1. Hostilites are settled.

2. Missiles, ICBMs, etc. are to not be pointed at Hataria.

3. An annual payment to Hataria is required for reparations.


The Leocardian International Peacekeeping Forces (LIPF) will be willing to provide Hataria the defense of soldiers in Hataria, able to deploying as many as 23 million soldiers, and other unlisted deployments. If this treaty, called the Hatarian Defense Organization, is passed, Leocardia, and other allied forces, will join together in organizing a massive defense force in Hataria.

I actually can agree to the Blub part.

yes I know that but the Monarchy still has plenty of power and could revert to old ways if it chose to. I went with Dephire's idea and added the government modification and the aid for Hataria's economy that way the Hatarian people don't suffer, and we can get a benefit from having free trade with Hataria once the economy is back on track

I would like to propose a requirement for Hataria.

1. Hataria will have no military. They will be supported by a group of nations banded together, forming a peacekeeping force in Hataria. They will still have a limited navy and airforce, however. 5 carriers at all time.

Rejected

2. No WMD, nuclear weapons at all times.

3. Offensive, ICBM/long-ranged missiles are banned.

4. Space weaponry are banned.

5. Superdreadnaughts for the navy will be only 1.

However, to the Blubs.

1. Hostilites are settled.

2. Missiles, ICBMs, etc. are to not be pointed at Hataria.

3. An annual payment to Hataria is required for reparations.


The Leocardian International Peacekeeping Forces (LIPF) will be willing to provide Hataria the defense of soldiers in Hataria, able to deploying as many as 23 million soldiers, and other unlisted deployments. If this treaty, called the Hatarian Defense Organization, is passed, Leocardia, and other allied forces, will join together in organizing a massive defense force in Hataria.

Vetaka already has them on his Treaty

I would like to propose a requirement for Hataria.

1. Hataria will have no military. They will be supported by a group of nations banded together, forming a peacekeeping force in Hataria. They will still have a limited navy and airforce, however. 5 carriers at all time.

2. No WMD, nuclear weapons at all times.

3. Offensive, ICBM/long-ranged missiles are banned.

4. Space weaponry are banned.

5. Superdreadnaughts for the navy will be only 1.

However, to the Blubs.

1. Hostilites are settled.

2. Missiles, ICBMs, etc. are to not be pointed at Hataria.

3. An annual payment to Hataria is required for reparations.


The Leocardian International Peacekeeping Forces (LIPF) will be willing to provide Hataria the defense of soldiers in Hataria, able to deploying as many as 23 million soldiers, and other unlisted deployments. If this treaty, called the Hatarian Defense Organization, is passed, Leocardia, and other allied forces, will join together in organizing a massive defense force in Hataria.


I agree and support this.

OOC: Thing with the blub part of the treaty is that why in the hell would blub have to pay reparations to hataria? It should be the other way around, just to the families of the blubs who got deated.

1. Military personel for all branches will not exceed 55 million. Reserve Forces will not exceed further than 2 Million as such Total Man Power will not exceed further 57 Million

2. No WMD's of any kind.

3. The Hatarian Naval Fleet will be limited to 15 Carrier Units

4. No ballistic missle submarines, or any other capability to deliver ICBMs.

5.) No long range bombers or strike craft. This means a range of 1,000 nautical miles.

6.) No more than 200,000 tanks allowed in the Hatarian army.

7.) No orbital weapons systems, Survey satellites would be allowed with no weapons capabilities. Pearce Weapons Inc would provide a free OBSAT Defence System with only Defence Capacity.

8.)The Hatarian Navy will be allowed 1 Superdeadnaught to act as a Flagship, the Hatarian navy would be allowed a Naval Fleet for Defence Purposes only.

9. The Second Empire will allow ramdom Searches of all Military Installations 3 times a year by a Joint International Committee provisonally consisting of Blubland, Clandonia, Transylvania, Vetalia and Shazbotdom.

10. Hataria can not produce a surplus of any type of weapon except for export.

11. This Treaty will be reviewed within a period of 90 NS Years (3 RL Months) with the intent to ease the restrictions. The reviewing body will consist of the following nations Blubland, Clandonia, Transylvania, Vetalia and Shazbotdom.

12. Blub will not pursue revenge or hostilities with Hataria and both nations agree to be formally be diplomatically civil towards each other in the future.

13. he Government of Hataria will accept the creation of a council of elected officials and will write up a constitution which will place set limits on the powers of the Monarchy.The constitution would be written by Hataria and then submitted to the ratifying powers to ensure that the Monarchy can not turn back to its old dictatorial ways.

14. The Ratifying members of this treaty will agree to aid in the rebuilding process of Hataria's Infrastructure and economic development, in exchange Hataria shall agree to have free and open trade between itself and the ratifying members of this treaty

I have a big problem with number 1, it is ridiculous.

Edit: Not from the post right above me

Calizorinstan agrees and signs the treaty proposed by Gataway, and suggest's that other's should follow and sign it, so that there would be peace, and we could avoid war in a war that we don't really want to fight.

I second Calizorinstan on the Gataway treaty. We feel this is a fair way to end this conflict, and hope that Hataria and the other nations involved will agree with us and push this framework forward.

From Emperor Barbarossa II

I request that all Nations wait till Peace Talks to sign anything. and I already said that I will sign Vetaka's treaty.

From Emperor Barbarossa II

I request that all Nations wait till Peace Talks to sign anything. and I already said that I will sign Vetaka's treaty.

I believe the Gataway treaty is almost identical to the Vetakan treaty, so I effectively support either of them.

Here is what I think should be a fair treaty for all;

Hataria:
1) Will not wage war against any foreign nation unless approved by the signees of this treaty or unless threatened by the foreign nation of which Hataria would declare war upon.
2) Can and will uphold a military for defense purposes only. This military will be watched over by the signees of this treaty. The army will not exceed the amount of 1% of the total population in times of peace. The Navy and Airforce will be watched over by the signees of the treaty.
3) Will introduce some form of democracy to ensure that the people of Hataria gain freedoms and natural rights. This introduction of a more democratic society will be done slowly.
4) Will have its Monarchy to be reduced in power.
5) Will open all trade routes and borders to allow in trade.
6) Will not carry nor will use WMDs unless permitted by the signees of this treaty.
7) Will not demand reparations for the war.
8) Will take to these restrictions until the signees of the treaty agree that Hataria has changed. Otherwise this treaty will not be lifted.

Blubs:
1) Will not declare war upon Hataria.
2) Will not aim WMDs at Hataria.
3) Will not show any aggression towards Hataria.

Dominion Commonwealth:
1) Will allow free trade to Hataria.
2) Will allow foreign advisors from other alliances, regions, commonwealths, and unalighted nations to help advice in the reconstruction of Hataria.
3) Will limit their military forces in Hataria during peace times.

Haven:
Same as Dominion Commonwealth.

Any thing I missed?

I believe the Gataway treaty is almost identical to the Vetakan treaty, so I effectively support either of them.

Well its a mix off of my first treaty proposal and his and then some others incorporated ideas..we've combined the two several times.. anywaysthe major diff is that in my latest one I call for economic aid and rebuilding of Hataria in exchange for free trade, and that the Hatarian monarchy have its power limited..the vetkan one just has the Military restrictions

Well its a mix off of my first treaty proposal and his and then some others incorporated ideas..we've combined the two several times.. anywaysthe major diff is that in my latest one I call for economic aid and rebuilding of Hataria in exchange for free trade, and that the Hatarian monarchy have its power limited..the vetkan one just has the Military restrictions

Which is why I support the Getaway one over the Vetaka proposal.

I would also like to add that a defense council be formed in case Hataria is invaded and that members of this council would aid Hataria militarily but only in a defensive manner whilst allowing Hataria to keep its own military although it being small

Which is why I support the Getaway one over the Vetaka proposal.

I put my proposal up to get the ball rolling which has been successful (YAY) and as such I support either mine, Getaways proposal or even Dephires proposal.

Well, that is kind of an implied thing within my own. I'm trying to imply that the signees would offer some sort of aid to rebuild Hataria and turn Hataria from what it was to what it could be. If some dumbass comes in and tries to take Hataria over during our rebuilding process, then that's a declaration of war against Hataria and all the signees...

Dephire, I would assume similar rules apply to nations like mine and others not involved in Haven or the DC?

I do support this treaty. However, when you say the military will be watched over, does this place any limits on the composition of the Hatarian military other than restricting WMDs and troop strength?

Also, you may want to amend it to say that they are not only able to maintain a military force of 1% of the population during peacetime but are also not allowed to provide military training to more than 1% of their population. This would prevent them from doing what Prussia did to avoid limits on its military; training huge numbers of its citizens but not formally keeping them in the armed forces, so that they comply with the letter of the law but in reality are able to train vastly more soldiers than the 1% mandated by law.

I put my proposal up to get the ball rolling which has been successful (YAY) and as such I support either mine, Getaways proposal or even Dephires proposal.

Maybe we should have a separate thread in which the current proposals are put up. Then, after everyone has posted their own form of the proposal, we put in a poll for everyone to vote on their favorite.

sounds good...

Dephire, I would assume similar rules apply to nations like mine and others not involved in Haven or the DC?

I do support this treaty. However, when you say the military will be watched over, does this place any limits on the composition of the Hatarian military other than restricting WMDs and troop strength?

Also, you may want to amend it to say that they are not only able to maintain a military force of 1% of the population during peacetime but are also not allowed to provide military training to more than 1% of their population. This would prevent them from doing what Prussia did to avoid limits on its military; training huge numbers of its citizens but not formally keeping them in the armed forces, so that they comply with the letter of the law but in reality are able to train vastly more soldiers than the 1% mandated by law.

Ah, thanks for pointing that out. And yes, that's what I meant when the signess are watching over his military since I couldn't think of a good restriction policy on all other branches of the military.

Here is what I think should be a fair treaty for all;

Hataria:
1) Will not wage war against any foreign nation unless approved by the signees of this treaty or unless threatened by the foreign nation of which Hataria would declare war upon.
2) Can and will uphold a military for defense purposes only. This military will be watched over by the signees of this treaty. The army will not exceed the amount of 1% of the total population in times of peace,but are also not allowed to provide military training to more than 1% of their population. The Navy and Airforce will be watched over by the signees of the treaty. This will ensure that all military forces of Hataria are restricted to numbers seen fit by the signees of the treaty.
3) Will introduce some form of democracy to ensure that the people of Hataria gain freedoms and natural rights. This introduction of a more democratic society will be done slowly.
4) Will have its Monarchy to be reduced in power.
5) Will open all trade routes and borders to allow in trade.
6) Will not carry nor will use WMDs unless permitted by the signees of this treaty.
7) Will not demand reparations for the war.
8) Will take to these restrictions until the signees of the treaty agree that Hataria has changed. Otherwise this treaty will not be lifted.

Blubs:
1) Will not declare war upon Hataria.
2) Will not aim WMDs at Hataria.
3) Will not show any aggression towards Hataria.

Dominion Commonwealth:
1) Will allow free trade to Hataria.
2) Will allow foreign advisors from other alliances, regions, commonwealths, and unalighted nations to help advice in the reconstruction of Hataria.
3) Will limit their military forces in Hataria during peace times.

Haven:
Same as Dominion Commonwealth.

Unalligned Nations:
Same as Dominion Commonwealth and Haven.

Any thing I missed?

Ah, thanks for pointing that out. And yes, that's what I meant when the signess are watching over his military since I couldn't think of a good restriction policy on all other branches of the military.

Okay, that's good to hear. Now that that's been cleared up, I support your treaty the most of the ones currently proposed.

Okay, that's good to hear. Now that that's been cleared up, I support your treaty the most of the ones currently proposed.

OOC:
Dephire gets really happy and a song starts playing while he jumps up on a table and dances.

"Do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight, uh huh uh huh, get down tonight!"

ooc: Dephire don't ever do that again...-.- lol

OOC:
Sorry, I did that to ease the tensions a little.

OOC: Go there. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=528088

Treaty of Tangalee
We, the Several Involved Nations accept Hataria’s complete surrender and the cession of hostilities only under the following circumstances:

1) Restrictions on the Armed Forces:

A) Restriction of Army:
Limits of the following:


One-Hundred (100) Special Operations troops, subject to exclusive and special review by the Upper House


Four-Hundred (400) APC equivalent vehicles


Two-Hundred (200) Tanks, not superior to an M1A2


Seven Hundred Fifty mechanized vehicles not listed above


Fifty Thousand (50,000) standard ground troops. They may not be trained for more than six continuous months at a time, and only as often as once every four years. They may not be armed with more than a standard assault rifle, standard body armor, standard chemical gas mask, small communications kit, camouflage, and necessary survival supplies.


B) Restrictions on Navy:
Restriction of Hatarian navy to the following:



Two (2) Battleships, not to exceed the size and power of an Iowa class Battleship


Ten (10) Cruisers, not to exceed the size and power of a Ticonderoga class Cruiser


Fifty (50) Destroyers, not to exceed the size and power of


One Hundred (100) Frigates and other small escort craft, not to exceed the size and power of an Oliver Hazard Perry class Frigate


One Hundred Fifty (150) Small littoral combat craft, such as Boghammers.


No restriction on noncombat Naval vessels, including landing craft, auxiliary craft, et cetera


At no time are submarines, aircraft carriers, aircraft carrying cruisers, helidestroyers, UAV carriers or arsenal ships to be developed by the Hatarian Navy



C) Restrictions on Air Force:


One-Hundred Fifty (150) Fighter aircraft of all types, not to exceed the power of an F-35 Lightning II


One-Hundred (100) Ground Attack aircraft of all types, not to exceed the firepower of an A-10 Warthog


Seventy-Five (75) Bomber aircraft of all types, 50 not to exceed the firepower of an F-111 Aardvark, and 25 not to exceed the firepower of a B-52 Stratofortress


No restriction on noncombat aircraft, such as tankers, transports, trainers, et cetera



D) Restrictions on Strategic Forces:
Hataria may not develop Nuclear, Chemical, Biological, or Satellite weapons of any type. Any and all such weapons currently possessed will be destroyed at approved sites within Hataria.

E) Manufacture and Sale:
Hataria is not permitted to manufacture or sell military equipment in excess of thrice these limits per year. All manufacturing sites are to be monitored at all times.

F) Additional Notes
Hataria must submit new designs, along with technical manuals and blueprints, to the Upper House for evaluation against these above guidelines. Such Guidelines are subject to revision in order to ensure that they are kept up to date with changing technology. All vehicles exceeding maximum standards will be destroyed by inspection teams. All current equipment in excess of the above limits is to be auctioned off or decommissioned and scrapped at approved sites across Hataria. Funds from such auctions will be put into a general fund for the improvement of Hatarian infrastructure and the payment of War Debts. All personnel in excess of the above limits are to be dismissed from the armed forces. An additional full amount of these limits may be placed in reserve, to be monitored by Inspection Teams at all times.

2) Surrender of Sovereignty:
Hataria surrenders all sovereignty and the hallmarks thereof to an Occupational Government. The foreign nations participating in this government will be allowed to keep as many military personnel in Hataria as they deem fit, with any one member's complement not outweighing the total of all other member’s forces combined, and the total not to exceed the total size of the Hatarian military, reserves included.

3) Occupational Government:
An Occupational Government shall be formed. It shall be jointly made by the Several Involved Nations and the nation of Hataria.
A) Legislature:
The Legislature will be bicameral.
i) Upper House
The Upper House, formed with one voting representative from each of the Several Involved Nations, shall have the ultimate say over all matters within Hataria, including those holdings of the Several Involved Nations. Measures will be passed by simple majority except where otherwise specified. There shall be a single nonvoting representative from the Dominion Commonwealth and a single voting representative from the Hatarian Lower House permitted. The Hatarian representative is to have equal authority to a representative from one of the Several Involved Nations, while the Commonwealth representative is to have all privileges of the others but those of voting, holding office in an Upper House committee, and calling for a vote.
ii) Lower House
The Lower House will consist totally of Hatarian elected officials, and will undertake the day to day business necessary to run the nation. Additional details of the Lower House are to be decided at a constitutional convention set for a later date.
B) Executive:
There shall be an Executive Branch with veto power over the lower house of the Legislature but not over the upper house of the Legislature. Additional powers are to be decided at a constitutional convention set for a later date.
C) Judicial:
There shall be an independent Judiciary Branch within Hataria with the ultimate say over constitutional matters over the Executive Branch and the lower house of the Legislative Branch. Additional powers are to be decided at a constitutional convention set for a later date.
D) Constitution:
A Constitutional Convention shall be called for an examination of the current Hatarian Constitution and an alteration of it to fit the above requirements. The Constitution must be approved by the Hatarian People and the Upper House. If the current constitution is found to be easily compatible with the above requirements, no alterations will be made.
E)Alterations:
This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

4) War Indemnities
The total cost of the war shall be paid in full by Hataria. It shall be indexed for global inflation. The timetable for paying this is limited to one hundred years. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

5) Eventual return of Sovereignty
The Upper House of the Hatarian Legislature shall work to eventually return total Sovereignty to the Hatarian people within the next ten years. All holdings of the Several Involved Nations shall be kept as parts of those separate nations, except in cases of that nation falling. In case a Concerned Nation falls, a plebiscite shall be held to determine if it wishes to be independent or absorbed into Hataria or one of the Several Involved Nations. The outcome of this plebiscite will determine the fate of the territory, regardless of the wishes of the Upper House. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

6) Several Involved Nations:
A) Membership:


The Armed Capitalist Republic of The Silver Sky


The Crown Imperium of Questers


The Federal Sultanate Duchydom of Franberry


The Glorious Military Junta of No Endorse


The Grand Imperium of Whyatica


The Republic of the Blub Colony


The United Kingdom of Clandonia Prime

The Crown Commonwealth of Praetonia



B) Holdings:
The total holdings of all of the Several Involved Nations shall not exceed Fifteen percent (15%) of the total territory of Hataria. Such holdings shall be integrated into their respective Nations, and become legitimate claims. None of the Several Involved Nations may sell, cede, or through any other process transfer any portion of their holding in Hataria to any other party unless approved by the Hatarian Government. None of the Several Involved Nations may hold any of the top 5 population centers of Hataria, nor may any hold the capitol. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

7) Defense of Hataria
The Several Involved Nations are required to protect Hataria from any unwarranted aggressive attacks. However, they are not required to pursue this enemy from beyond the borders of Hataria. That shall only be done as independently deemed necessary, or can be initiated by a vote in the Upper House. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

8) Hatarian Military Actions
A) Offensive:
The Hataria is allowed to attack other nations that are not part of or allies of the Several Involved Nations, so long as they are not innocent of transgression against the Hatarian People. Hataria is not allowed to occupy foreign territory. Any territory taken by Hataria shall be administered by Upper House and/or the Several Involved Nations. The Hatarian Military may hold territory for up to Six (6) Months before turning over administration to the Upper House and/or the Several Involved Nations. The fate of all acquired territory shall be determined by joint agreement between the Upper House and the Hatarian Government.
B) Defensive:
Hataria may defend itself against any aggressor to the extent necessary, and if attacked first and unjustly, may pursue the enemy to their homelands. In this case, the Upper House may temporarily suspend Article 1. However, the territory taken in this war is still subject to Article 10 Subsection A, and Article 1 may be re-instated at the whim of the Upper House at any time.
C) Additional Notes:
Hataria may take part in any multinational peacekeeping operation, so long as this operation does not violate any other part of this treaty. Article 10 may not be altered by the Upper House.

9) Violations:
Violation of any of the above terms on the part of Hataria shall result in declaration of war against Hataria, ending only when one of the following has been accomplished:


Hataria is completely in the hands of the Several Involved Nations plus any other Involved Parties (as deemed so by the Upper House)


Hataria has been emptied of all Hatarian life


The Hataria agrees to resume adherence to this or any other treaty drafted by the original Several Involved Nations plus any other Involved Parties (as deemed so by the Upper House)


The world ends before any other Article 9 term is met



10) War Guilt
Hataria must accept sole responsibility for this war for its actions against Blub Colony in the past. There shall be no other repercussions of such, only that it shall be stated in the history books that it was the sole fault of Hataria and its government at the time that such this war was started.

11) Alterations to this treaty
The Upper House may, through two-thirds (2/3) majority, alter the points on this treaty that are not expressedly forbidden to them. A Special Congress of the Several Involved Nations and the Hatarian Government is necessary to alter sections of the treaty that are forbidden to the Upper House. The Upper House may not alter this article.

This is the treaty proposed by the Confederate States of Spizania to allow for a swift and peaceful end to the conflict

Finally a treaty we can all agree on.

Edit: I mean Dephires treaty, the one above is rubbish

-snip-

OOC: I’m not even going to read that as it’s one side Haven nonsense. Go there. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=528088

OOC:
I do not see Dephire in that treaty as I am a party involved. Also, what of the other parties involved that are non-Hatarian?

<snip>

Sir, that is garbage. Complete and utter Haven-promoting garbage. In your "Several Involved Nations" I see not a single one that is actually helping Hataria, only those that would destroy it.

Surely those that are making an effort to rebuild should be those involved, rather than those that would claim their pound of flesh and leave the rest to fester.

Treaty of Tangalee
We, the Several Involved Nations accept Hataria’s complete surrender and the cession of hostilities only under the following circumstances:

1) Restrictions on the Armed Forces:

A) Restriction of Army:
Limits of the following:


One-Hundred (100) Special Operations troops, subject to exclusive and special review by the Upper House


Four-Hundred (400) APC equivalent vehicles


Two-Hundred (200) Tanks, not superior to an M1A2


Seven Hundred Fifty mechanized vehicles not listed above


Fifty Thousand (50,000) standard ground troops. They may not be trained for more than six continuous months at a time, and only as often as once every four years. They may not be armed with more than a standard assault rifle, standard body armor, standard chemical gas mask, small communications kit, camouflage, and necessary survival supplies.


B) Restrictions on Navy:
Restriction of Hatarian navy to the following:



Two (2) Battleships, not to exceed the size and power of an Iowa class Battleship


Ten (10) Cruisers, not to exceed the size and power of a Ticonderoga class Cruiser


Fifty (50) Destroyers, not to exceed the size and power of


One Hundred (100) Frigates and other small escort craft, not to exceed the size and power of an Oliver Hazard Perry class Frigate


One Hundred Fifty (150) Small littoral combat craft, such as Boghammers.


No restriction on noncombat Naval vessels, including landing craft, auxiliary craft, et cetera


At no time are submarines, aircraft carriers, aircraft carrying cruisers, helidestroyers, UAV carriers or arsenal ships to be developed by the Hatarian Navy



C) Restrictions on Air Force:


One-Hundred Fifty (150) Fighter aircraft of all types, not to exceed the power of an F-35 Lightning II


One-Hundred (100) Ground Attack aircraft of all types, not to exceed the firepower of an A-10 Warthog


Seventy-Five (75) Bomber aircraft of all types, 50 not to exceed the firepower of an F-111 Aardvark, and 25 not to exceed the firepower of a B-52 Stratofortress


No restriction on noncombat aircraft, such as tankers, transports, trainers, et cetera



D) Restrictions on Strategic Forces:
Hataria may not develop Nuclear, Chemical, Biological, or Satellite weapons of any type. Any and all such weapons currently possessed will be destroyed at approved sites within Hataria.

E) Manufacture and Sale:
Hataria is not permitted to manufacture or sell military equipment in excess of thrice these limits per year. All manufacturing sites are to be monitored at all times.

F) Additional Notes
Hataria must submit new designs, along with technical manuals and blueprints, to the Upper House for evaluation against these above guidelines. Such Guidelines are subject to revision in order to ensure that they are kept up to date with changing technology. All vehicles exceeding maximum standards will be destroyed by inspection teams. All current equipment in excess of the above limits is to be auctioned off or decommissioned and scrapped at approved sites across Hataria. Funds from such auctions will be put into a general fund for the improvement of Hatarian infrastructure and the payment of War Debts. All personnel in excess of the above limits are to be dismissed from the armed forces. An additional full amount of these limits may be placed in reserve, to be monitored by Inspection Teams at all times.

2) Surrender of Sovereignty:
Hataria surrenders all sovereignty and the hallmarks thereof to an Occupational Government. The foreign nations participating in this government will be allowed to keep as many military personnel in Hataria as they deem fit, with any one member's complement not outweighing the total of all other member’s forces combined, and the total not to exceed the total size of the Hatarian military, reserves included.

3) Occupational Government:
An Occupational Government shall be formed. It shall be jointly made by the Several Involved Nations and the nation of Hataria.
A) Legislature:
The Legislature will be bicameral.
i) Upper House
The Upper House, formed with one voting representative from each of the Several Involved Nations, shall have the ultimate say over all matters within Hataria, including those holdings of the Several Involved Nations. Measures will be passed by simple majority except where otherwise specified. There shall be a single nonvoting representative from the Dominion Commonwealth and a single voting representative from the Hatarian Lower House permitted. The Hatarian representative is to have equal authority to a representative from one of the Several Involved Nations, while the Commonwealth representative is to have all privileges of the others but those of voting, holding office in an Upper House committee, and calling for a vote.
ii) Lower House
The Lower House will consist totally of Hatarian elected officials, and will undertake the day to day business necessary to run the nation. Additional details of the Lower House are to be decided at a constitutional convention set for a later date.
B) Executive:
There shall be an Executive Branch with veto power over the lower house of the Legislature but not over the upper house of the Legislature. Additional powers are to be decided at a constitutional convention set for a later date.
C) Judicial:
There shall be an independent Judiciary Branch within Hataria with the ultimate say over constitutional matters over the Executive Branch and the lower house of the Legislative Branch. Additional powers are to be decided at a constitutional convention set for a later date.
D) Constitution:
A Constitutional Convention shall be called for an examination of the current Hatarian Constitution and an alteration of it to fit the above requirements. The Constitution must be approved by the Hatarian People and the Upper House. If the current constitution is found to be easily compatible with the above requirements, no alterations will be made.
E)Alterations:
This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

4) War Indemnities
The total cost of the war shall be paid in full by Hataria. It shall be indexed for global inflation. The timetable for paying this is limited to one hundred years. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

5) Eventual return of Sovereignty
The Upper House of the Hatarian Legislature shall work to eventually return total Sovereignty to the Hatarian people within the next ten years. All holdings of the Several Involved Nations shall be kept as parts of those separate nations, except in cases of that nation falling. In case a Concerned Nation falls, a plebiscite shall be held to determine if it wishes to be independent or absorbed into Hataria or one of the Several Involved Nations. The outcome of this plebiscite will determine the fate of the territory, regardless of the wishes of the Upper House. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

6) Several Involved Nations:
A) Membership:


The Armed Capitalist Republic of The Silver Sky


The Crown Imperium of Questers


The Federal Sultanate Duchydom of Franberry


The Glorious Military Junta of No Endorse


The Grand Imperium of Whyatica


The Republic of the Blub Colony


The United Kingdom of Clandonia Prime

The Crown Commonwealth of Praetonia



B) Holdings:
The total holdings of all of the Several Involved Nations shall not exceed Fifteen percent (15%) of the total territory of Hataria. Such holdings shall be integrated into their respective Nations, and become legitimate claims. None of the Several Involved Nations may sell, cede, or through any other process transfer any portion of their holding in Hataria to any other party unless approved by the Hatarian Government. None of the Several Involved Nations may hold any of the top 5 population centers of Hataria, nor may any hold the capitol. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

7) Defense of Hataria
The Several Involved Nations are required to protect Hataria from any unwarranted aggressive attacks. However, they are not required to pursue this enemy from beyond the borders of Hataria. That shall only be done as independently deemed necessary, or can be initiated by a vote in the Upper House. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

8) Hatarian Military Actions
A) Offensive:
The Hataria is allowed to attack other nations that are not part of or allies of the Several Involved Nations, so long as they are not innocent of transgression against the Hatarian People. Hataria is not allowed to occupy foreign territory. Any territory taken by Hataria shall be administered by Upper House and/or the Several Involved Nations. The Hatarian Military may hold territory for up to Six (6) Months before turning over administration to the Upper House and/or the Several Involved Nations. The fate of all acquired territory shall be determined by joint agreement between the Upper House and the Hatarian Government.
B) Defensive:
Hataria may defend itself against any aggressor to the extent necessary, and if attacked first and unjustly, may pursue the enemy to their homelands. In this case, the Upper House may temporarily suspend Article 1. However, the territory taken in this war is still subject to Article 10 Subsection A, and Article 1 may be re-instated at the whim of the Upper House at any time.
C) Additional Notes:
Hataria may take part in any multinational peacekeeping operation, so long as this operation does not violate any other part of this treaty. Article 10 may not be altered by the Upper House.

9) Violations:
Violation of any of the above terms on the part of Hataria shall result in declaration of war against Hataria, ending only when one of the following has been accomplished:


Hataria is completely in the hands of the Several Involved Nations plus any other Involved Parties (as deemed so by the Upper House)


Hataria has been emptied of all Hatarian life


The Hataria agrees to resume adherence to this or any other treaty drafted by the original Several Involved Nations plus any other Involved Parties (as deemed so by the Upper House)


The world ends before any other Article 9 term is met



10) War Guilt
Hataria must accept sole responsibility for this war for its actions against Blub Colony in the past. There shall be no other repercussions of such, only that it shall be stated in the history books that it was the sole fault of Hataria and its government at the time that such this war was started.

11) Alterations to this treaty
The Upper House may, through two-thirds (2/3) majority, alter the points on this treaty that are not expressedly forbidden to them. A Special Congress of the Several Involved Nations and the Hatarian Government is necessary to alter sections of the treaty that are forbidden to the Upper House. The Upper House may not alter this article.

This is the treaty proposed by the Confederate States of Spizania to allow for a swift and peaceful end to the conflict

heck, i could beat him if that went into effect...his military would be what... .001% of his population?
this is not a treaty, it is a surrender demand.

We strongly denounce the Spizanian treaty as nothing more than a blatant attempt to totally cripple Hataria and deprive it of its ability to defend itself. Frankly, we see it as nothing more than a way of making Hataria so weak that the nations involved in it can walk in and extort what they want without penalty.

Not only that, but there is no input from non-Haven nations. If you want to make Hataria in to your slave, you will have to fight for it because we will not tolerate this kind of rubbish. We want an honorable peace for Hataria, not extortion.

We strongly denounce the Spizanian treaty as nothing more than a blatant attempt to totally cripple Hataria and deprive it of its ability to defend itself. Frankly, we see it as nothing more than a way of making Hataria so weak that the nations involved in it can walk in and extort what they want without penalty.

Not only that, but there is no input from non-Haven nations. If you want to make Hataria in to your slave, you will have to fight for it because we will not tolerate this kind of rubbish. We want an honorable peace for Hataria, not extortion.

Hear Hear!

You want a better proposal? *Points at Dephire's proposal*

Treaty of Tangalee[/CENTER]
We, the Several Involved Nations accept Hataria’s complete surrender and the cession of hostilities only under the following circumstances:
Wait, is this supposed to be a surrender treaty?

1) Restrictions on the Armed Forces:

A) Restriction of Army:
Limits of the following:


One-Hundred (100) Special Operations troops, subject to exclusive and special review by the Upper House


Four-Hundred (400) APC equivalent vehicles


Two-Hundred (200) Tanks, not superior to an M1A2


Seven Hundred Fifty mechanized vehicles not listed above


Fifty Thousand (50,000) standard ground troops. They may not be trained for more than six continuous months at a time, and only as often as once every four years. They may not be armed with more than a standard assault rifle, standard body armor, standard chemical gas mask, small communications kit, camouflage, and necessary survival supplies.

Not enough ground troops for law enforcement for fuck's sake. Should be at least 500,000. Remember, these are NS sized nations.


B) Restrictions on Navy:
Restriction of Hatarian navy to the following:



Two (2) Battleships, not to exceed the size and power of an Iowa class Battleship


Ten (10) Cruisers, not to exceed the size and power of a Ticonderoga class Cruiser


Fifty (50) Destroyers, not to exceed the size and power of


One Hundred (100) Frigates and other small escort craft, not to exceed the size and power of an Oliver Hazard Perry class Frigate


One Hundred Fifty (150) Small littoral combat craft, such as Boghammers.


No restriction on noncombat Naval vessels, including landing craft, auxiliary craft, et cetera


At no time are submarines, aircraft carriers, aircraft carrying cruisers, helidestroyers, UAV carriers or arsenal ships to be developed by the Hatarian Navy


Bit harsh, but workable I guess.


C) Restrictions on Air Force:


One-Hundred Fifty (150) Fighter aircraft of all types, not to exceed the power of an F-35 Lightning II


One-Hundred (100) Ground Attack aircraft of all types, not to exceed the firepower of an A-10 Warthog


Seventy-Five (75) Bomber aircraft of all types, 50 not to exceed the firepower of an F-111 Aardvark, and 25 not to exceed the firepower of a B-52 Stratofortress


No restriction on noncombat aircraft, such as tankers, transports, trainers, et cetera


Again, a bit too restrictive imo.


D) Restrictions on Strategic Forces:
Hataria may not develop Nuclear, Chemical, Biological, or Satellite weapons of any type. Any and all such weapons currently possessed will be destroyed at approved sites within Hataria.
Fair

E) Manufacture and Sale:
Hataria is not permitted to manufacture or sell military equipment in excess of thrice these limits per year. All manufacturing sites are to be monitored at all times.
What about private corporations? Don't you guys have a "free enterprise" thing, anyway? This article seems a bit hypocritical if so, and ineffective if not.


F) Additional Notes
Hataria must submit new designs, along with technical manuals and blueprints, to the Upper House for evaluation against these above guidelines. Such Guidelines are subject to revision in order to ensure that they are kept up to date with changing technology. All vehicles exceeding maximum standards will be destroyed by inspection teams. All current equipment in excess of the above limits is to be auctioned off or decommissioned and scrapped at approved sites across Hataria. Funds from such auctions will be put into a general fund for the improvement of Hatarian infrastructure and the payment of War Debts. All personnel in excess of the above limits are to be dismissed from the armed forces. An additional full amount of these limits may be placed in reserve, to be monitored by Inspection Teams at all times.

tl;dr. But seriously, bit harsh, but ok.


2) Surrender of Sovereignty:
Hataria surrenders all sovereignty and the hallmarks thereof to an Occupational Government. The foreign nations participating in this government will be allowed to keep as many military personnel in Hataria as they deem fit, with any one member's complement not outweighing the total of all other member’s forces combined, and the total not to exceed the total size of the Hatarian military, reserves included.

Ok.


3) Occupational Government:
An Occupational Government shall be formed. It shall be jointly made by the Several Involved Nations and the nation of Hataria.
A) Legislature:
The Legislature will be bicameral.
i) Upper House
The Upper House, formed with one voting representative from each of the Several Involved Nations, shall have the ultimate say over all matters within Hataria, including those holdings of the Several Involved Nations. Measures will be passed by simple majority except where otherwise specified. There shall be a single nonvoting representative from the Dominion Commonwealth and a single voting representative from the Hatarian Lower House permitted. The Hatarian representative is to have equal authority to a representative from one of the Several Involved Nations, while the Commonwealth representative is to have all privileges of the others but those of voting, holding office in an Upper House committee, and calling for a vote.
ii) Lower House
The Lower House will consist totally of Hatarian elected officials, and will undertake the day to day business necessary to run the nation. Additional details of the Lower House are to be decided at a constitutional convention set for a later date.
B) Executive:
There shall be an Executive Branch with veto power over the lower house of the Legislature but not over the upper house of the Legislature. Additional powers are to be decided at a constitutional convention set for a later date.
C) Judicial:
There shall be an independent Judiciary Branch within Hataria with the ultimate say over constitutional matters over the Executive Branch and the lower house of the Legislative Branch. Additional powers are to be decided at a constitutional convention set for a later date.
D) Constitution:
A Constitutional Convention shall be called for an examination of the current Hatarian Constitution and an alteration of it to fit the above requirements. The Constitution must be approved by the Hatarian People and the Upper House. If the current constitution is found to be easily compatible with the above requirements, no alterations will be made.
E)Alterations:
This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

Meh. If you're occupying Hataria, you may as well.


4) War Indemnities
The total cost of the war shall be paid in full by Hataria. It shall be indexed for global inflation. The timetable for paying this is limited to one hundred years. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

What Hataria? You guys basically just divided it between yourselves.


5) Eventual return of Sovereignty
The Upper House of the Hatarian Legislature shall work to eventually return total Sovereignty to the Hatarian people within the next ten years. All holdings of the Several Involved Nations shall be kept as parts of those separate nations, except in cases of that nation falling. In case a Concerned Nation falls, a plebiscite shall be held to determine if it wishes to be independent or absorbed into Hataria or one of the Several Involved Nations. The outcome of this plebiscite will determine the fate of the territory, regardless of the wishes of the Upper House. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

Article 4) should be made more clear that the payment of indemnities will occur when sovereignty is returned.


6) Several Involved Nations:
A) Membership:


The Armed Capitalist Republic of The Silver Sky


The Crown Imperium of Questers


The Federal Sultanate Duchydom of Franberry


The Glorious Military Junta of No Endorse


The Grand Imperium of Whyatica


The Republic of the Blub Colony


The United Kingdom of Clandonia Prime

The Crown Commonwealth of Praetonia


How did you come up with these?


B) Holdings:
The total holdings of all of the Several Involved Nations shall not exceed Fifteen percent (15%) of the total territory of Hataria. Such holdings shall be integrated into their respective Nations, and become legitimate claims. None of the Several Involved Nations may sell, cede, or through any other process transfer any portion of their holding in Hataria to any other party unless approved by the Hatarian Government. None of the Several Involved Nations may hold any of the top 5 population centers of Hataria, nor may any hold the capitol. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

Ok


7) Defense of Hataria
The Several Involved Nations are required to protect Hataria from any unwarranted aggressive attacks. However, they are not required to pursue this enemy from beyond the borders of Hataria. That shall only be done as independently deemed necessary, or can be initiated by a vote in the Upper House. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

Ok

8) Hatarian Military Actions
A) Offensive:
The Hataria is allowed to attack other nations that are not part of or allies of the Several Involved Nations, so long as they are not innocent of transgression against the Hatarian People. Hataria is not allowed to occupy foreign territory. Any territory taken by Hataria shall be administered by Upper House and/or the Several Involved Nations. The Hatarian Military may hold territory for up to Six (6) Months before turning over administration to the Upper House and/or the Several Involved Nations. The fate of all acquired territory shall be determined by joint agreement between the Upper House and the Hatarian Government.
B) Defensive:
Hataria may defend itself against any aggressor to the extent necessary, and if attacked first and unjustly, may pursue the enemy to their homelands. In this case, the Upper House may temporarily suspend Article 1. However, the territory taken in this war is still subject to Article 10 Subsection A, and Article 1 may be re-instated at the whim of the Upper House at any time.
C) Additional Notes:
Hataria may take part in any multinational peacekeeping operation, so long as this operation does not violate any other part of this treaty. Article 10 may not be altered by the Upper House.

You didn't leave it much of a military to do any of that. But necessary, I guess.

9) Violations:
Violation of any of the above terms on the part of Hataria shall result in declaration of war against Hataria, ending only when one of the following has been accomplished:


Hataria is completely in the hands of the Several Involved Nations plus any other Involved Parties (as deemed so by the Upper House)


Hataria has been emptied of all Hatarian life


The Hataria agrees to resume adherence to this or any other treaty drafted by the original Several Involved Nations plus any other Involved Parties (as deemed so by the Upper House)


The world ends before any other Article 9 term is met


Seems fair.


10) War Guilt
Hataria must accept sole responsibility for this war for its actions against Blub Colony in the past. There shall be no other repercussions of such, only that it shall be stated in the history books that it was the sole fault of Hataria and its government at the time that such this war was started.

Whatever.


11) Alterations to this treaty
The Upper House may, through two-thirds (2/3) majority, alter the points on this treaty that are not expressedly forbidden to them. A Special Congress of the Several Involved Nations and the Hatarian Government is necessary to alter sections of the treaty that are forbidden to the Upper House. The Upper House may not alter this article.

Well, get your ballot boxes out.

-- Inquisitor Asvel "Impartial Observer" Naelgard
The si-Thaluo Damalg'iru

Honestly, Dephire, I think your proposal is the most workable one here. I think all sides get a good amount of what they want from the agreement.

OOC:
Thank you. I personally do not agree with the recently proposed plan because it is just not humane. It makes all Havenites appear to be bad guys. I don't want to look like a bad guy. BURN IT!!!

ooc: FFS Spiz, that treaty was nowhere near complete, and it makes our job a lot easier if you don't post half finished stuff. All of you, please be quiet while I hammer out the details of this old thing. TBH it's a heavily modified verson of a rather old treaty of mine from LONG while ago, and as such a lot needs updating. So please let me get the numbers sensible before going off half-cocked. Rest assured we're editing it significantly.

OOC: I agree. We need something that works for all sides, not one biased towards one side or another. I'm not going to support something that screws Hataria or Haven over, because that's just going to cause future problems and lead to more flare ups.

Heres an idea, lets just drop that crazy treaty and not worry about it. The one Dephire proposed is fine and workable. That other one is just downright ridiculous.

agreed.

Heres an idea, lets just drop that crazy treaty and not worry about it. The one Dephire proposed is fine and workable. That other one is just downright ridiculous.
:P well, there's this treaty that we're working on or there's the HULK SMASH method. I know which I'd prefer.

Are you threatening me into accepting that bullshit treaty?

No endorse, let's just put in my treaty and we can add onto it later. This whole issue is getting rather...boring.

Treaty of Tangalee
We, the Several Involved Nations accept Hataria’s complete surrender and the cession of hostilities only under the following circumstances:

1) Restrictions on the Armed Forces:

A) Restriction of Army:
Limits of the following:


One-Hundred (100) Special Operations troops, subject to exclusive and special review by the Upper House


Four-Hundred (400) APC equivalent vehicles


Two-Hundred (200) Tanks, not superior to an M1A2


Seven Hundred Fifty mechanized vehicles not listed above


Fifty Thousand (50,000) standard ground troops. They may not be trained for more than six continuous months at a time, and only as often as once every four years. They may not be armed with more than a standard assault rifle, standard body armor, standard chemical gas mask, small communications kit, camouflage, and necessary survival supplies.


B) Restrictions on Navy:
Restriction of Hatarian navy to the following:



Two (2) Battleships, not to exceed the size and power of an Iowa class Battleship


Ten (10) Cruisers, not to exceed the size and power of a Ticonderoga class Cruiser


Fifty (50) Destroyers, not to exceed the size and power of


One Hundred (100) Frigates and other small escort craft, not to exceed the size and power of an Oliver Hazard Perry class Frigate


One Hundred Fifty (150) Small littoral combat craft, such as Boghammers.


No restriction on noncombat Naval vessels, including landing craft, auxiliary craft, et cetera


At no time are submarines, aircraft carriers, aircraft carrying cruisers, helidestroyers, UAV carriers or arsenal ships to be developed by the Hatarian Navy



C) Restrictions on Air Force:


One-Hundred Fifty (150) Fighter aircraft of all types, not to exceed the power of an F-35 Lightning II


One-Hundred (100) Ground Attack aircraft of all types, not to exceed the firepower of an A-10 Warthog


Seventy-Five (75) Bomber aircraft of all types, 50 not to exceed the firepower of an F-111 Aardvark, and 25 not to exceed the firepower of a B-52 Stratofortress


No restriction on noncombat aircraft, such as tankers, transports, trainers, et cetera



D) Restrictions on Strategic Forces:
Hataria may not develop Nuclear, Chemical, Biological, or Satellite weapons of any type. Any and all such weapons currently possessed will be destroyed at approved sites within Hataria.

E) Manufacture and Sale:
Hataria is not permitted to manufacture or sell military equipment in excess of thrice these limits per year. All manufacturing sites are to be monitored at all times.

F) Additional Notes
Hataria must submit new designs, along with technical manuals and blueprints, to the Upper House for evaluation against these above guidelines. Such Guidelines are subject to revision in order to ensure that they are kept up to date with changing technology. All vehicles exceeding maximum standards will be destroyed by inspection teams. All current equipment in excess of the above limits is to be auctioned off or decommissioned and scrapped at approved sites across Hataria. Funds from such auctions will be put into a general fund for the improvement of Hatarian infrastructure and the payment of War Debts. All personnel in excess of the above limits are to be dismissed from the armed forces. An additional full amount of these limits may be placed in reserve, to be monitored by Inspection Teams at all times.

2) Surrender of Sovereignty:
Hataria surrenders all sovereignty and the hallmarks thereof to an Occupational Government. The foreign nations participating in this government will be allowed to keep as many military personnel in Hataria as they deem fit, with any one member's complement not outweighing the total of all other member’s forces combined, and the total not to exceed the total size of the Hatarian military, reserves included.

3) Occupational Government:
An Occupational Government shall be formed. It shall be jointly made by the Several Involved Nations and the nation of Hataria.
A) Legislature:
The Legislature will be bicameral.
i) Upper House
The Upper House, formed with one voting representative from each of the Several Involved Nations, shall have the ultimate say over all matters within Hataria, including those holdings of the Several Involved Nations. Measures will be passed by simple majority except where otherwise specified. There shall be a single nonvoting representative from the Dominion Commonwealth and a single voting representative from the Hatarian Lower House permitted. The Hatarian representative is to have equal authority to a representative from one of the Several Involved Nations, while the Commonwealth representative is to have all privileges of the others but those of voting, holding office in an Upper House committee, and calling for a vote.
ii) Lower House
The Lower House will consist totally of Hatarian elected officials, and will undertake the day to day business necessary to run the nation. Additional details of the Lower House are to be decided at a constitutional convention set for a later date.
B) Executive:
There shall be an Executive Branch with veto power over the lower house of the Legislature but not over the upper house of the Legislature. Additional powers are to be decided at a constitutional convention set for a later date.
C) Judicial:
There shall be an independent Judiciary Branch within Hataria with the ultimate say over constitutional matters over the Executive Branch and the lower house of the Legislative Branch. Additional powers are to be decided at a constitutional convention set for a later date.
D) Constitution:
A Constitutional Convention shall be called for an examination of the current Hatarian Constitution and an alteration of it to fit the above requirements. The Constitution must be approved by the Hatarian People and the Upper House. If the current constitution is found to be easily compatible with the above requirements, no alterations will be made.
E)Alterations:
This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

4) War Indemnities
The total cost of the war shall be paid in full by Hataria. It shall be indexed for global inflation. The timetable for paying this is limited to one hundred years. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

5) Eventual return of Sovereignty
The Upper House of the Hatarian Legislature shall work to eventually return total Sovereignty to the Hatarian people within the next ten years. All holdings of the Several Involved Nations shall be kept as parts of those separate nations, except in cases of that nation falling. In case a Concerned Nation falls, a plebiscite shall be held to determine if it wishes to be independent or absorbed into Hataria or one of the Several Involved Nations. The outcome of this plebiscite will determine the fate of the territory, regardless of the wishes of the Upper House. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

6) Several Involved Nations:
A) Membership:


The Armed Capitalist Republic of The Silver Sky


The Crown Imperium of Questers


The Federal Sultanate Duchydom of Franberry


The Glorious Military Junta of No Endorse


The Grand Imperium of Whyatica


The Republic of the Blub Colony


The United Kingdom of Clandonia Prime

The Crown Commonwealth of Praetonia



B) Holdings:
The total holdings of all of the Several Involved Nations shall not exceed Fifteen percent (15%) of the total territory of Hataria. Such holdings shall be integrated into their respective Nations, and become legitimate claims. None of the Several Involved Nations may sell, cede, or through any other process transfer any portion of their holding in Hataria to any other party unless approved by the Hatarian Government. None of the Several Involved Nations may hold any of the top 5 population centers of Hataria, nor may any hold the capitol. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

7) Defense of Hataria
The Several Involved Nations are required to protect Hataria from any unwarranted aggressive attacks. However, they are not required to pursue this enemy from beyond the borders of Hataria. That shall only be done as independently deemed necessary, or can be initiated by a vote in the Upper House. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

8) Hatarian Military Actions
A) Offensive:
The Hataria is allowed to attack other nations that are not part of or allies of the Several Involved Nations, so long as they are not innocent of transgression against the Hatarian People. Hataria is not allowed to occupy foreign territory. Any territory taken by Hataria shall be administered by Upper House and/or the Several Involved Nations. The Hatarian Military may hold territory for up to Six (6) Months before turning over administration to the Upper House and/or the Several Involved Nations. The fate of all acquired territory shall be determined by joint agreement between the Upper House and the Hatarian Government.
B) Defensive:
Hataria may defend itself against any aggressor to the extent necessary, and if attacked first and unjustly, may pursue the enemy to their homelands. In this case, the Upper House may temporarily suspend Article 1. However, the territory taken in this war is still subject to Article 10 Subsection A, and Article 1 may be re-instated at the whim of the Upper House at any time.
C) Additional Notes:
Hataria may take part in any multinational peacekeeping operation, so long as this operation does not violate any other part of this treaty. Article 10 may not be altered by the Upper House.

9) Violations:
Violation of any of the above terms on the part of Hataria shall result in declaration of war against Hataria, ending only when one of the following has been accomplished:


Hataria is completely in the hands of the Several Involved Nations plus any other Involved Parties (as deemed so by the Upper House)


Hataria has been emptied of all Hatarian life


The Hataria agrees to resume adherence to this or any other treaty drafted by the original Several Involved Nations plus any other Involved Parties (as deemed so by the Upper House)


The world ends before any other Article 9 term is met



10) War Guilt
Hataria must accept sole responsibility for this war for its actions against Blub Colony in the past. There shall be no other repercussions of such, only that it shall be stated in the history books that it was the sole fault of Hataria and its government at the time that such this war was started.

11) Alterations to this treaty
The Upper House may, through two-thirds (2/3) majority, alter the points on this treaty that are not expressedly forbidden to them. A Special Congress of the Several Involved Nations and the Hatarian Government is necessary to alter sections of the treaty that are forbidden to the Upper House. The Upper House may not alter this article.

This is the treaty proposed by the Confederate States of Spizania to allow for a swift and peaceful end to the conflict

Barbarossa read the enemy Demand....that was all it was, a Surender demand. He soon did what Hatarians did to all Trash.......Threw it into the Fire.

He soon sent a Message to Spizania

May you get the Lash of Yami Hime's Whip.
May Hatar, Goddess of The Moon, Block The Light of The Sun and make you cry in The Dark.
May Hachiman behead your Leaders.
May Amaterasu-ōmikami Burn your Crops.

This was the Hatarian way of telling Spizania The 'f' Word.

No endorse, let's just put in my treaty and we can add onto it later. This whole issue is getting rather...boring.

could you make a thread for people to sign it in?

You want a better proposal? *Points at Dephire's proposal*

Official Statement from the United Dominion

No, the modified Treaty of the Second Empire is the better proposal. The Dephirian one forces something that is pure bullshit on the Dominion Commonwealth and the Second Empire. The Dephirian know what the hell the Dominion Commonwealth was formed to do. We defend each other in peace time, which could mean that a coup happens as the nation is at peace times, or during war times. The Dephirian treaty is unfair to the Dominion Commonwealth about limiting forces in Hataria during peace times.

Signed,
Caesar Jason Scotus Lupus
The Emperor of the United Dominion
The Lord Marshall of the Dominion Commonwealth
The Co-Regional Governor of Romania
The Count of Transylvania
The CEO and Owner of Timber Wolf Incorporated and it sub-companies

Official Decleration

The Confederate States of Spizania has tried to reason with Hataria, and has come to the conclusion that its allies have long since realised, that Hataria cannot be reasoned with, and the only thing it understands is overwhelming force. Therefore it is my duty to inform you that a state of war now exists between Hataria and The Confederate States of Spizania, as constitued by Article 5 of the Common Charter.

Commander In Chief, Confederate Expeditionary Command
Field Marshal David Copperfield

Official Decleration

The Confederate States of Spizania has tried to reason with Hataria, and has come to the conclusion that its allies have long since realised, that Hataria cannot be reasoned with, and the only thing it understands is overwhelming force. Therefore it is my duty to inform you that a state of war now exists between Hataria and The Confederate States of Spizania, as constitued by Article 5 of the Common Charter.

Commander In Chief, Confederate Expeditionary Command
Field Marshal David Copperfield

reason? the military you outlined couldnt put down a Hatarian riot!

Official Decleration

The Confederate States of Spizania has tried to reason with Hataria, and has come to the conclusion that its allies have long since realised, that Hataria cannot be reasoned with, and the only thing it understands is overwhelming force. Therefore it is my duty to inform you that a state of war now exists between Hataria and The Confederate States of Spizania, as constitued by Article 5 of the Common Charter.

Commander In Chief, Confederate Expeditionary Command
Field Marshal David Copperfield

Wow. You've declared war with a crippled nation. Rather opportunistic of you, isn't it? Well, have fun working your way through what appears to be DC and UFAN, on your genocidal mission.

On a more serious note - this government is not the old government. They are seperate entities. One was uncontrolled, the other watched, and under obligations to a treaty they are signing.

As such, that leads us to the conclusion: you are going to war with Hataria because we threw out your treaty. Correct?

OOC:
He didnt just refuse to accept the treaty, he showed no willingness to even come to the table

Wow. You've declared war with a crippled nation. Rather opportunistic of you, isn't it? Well, have fun working your way through what appears to be DC and UFAN, on your genocidal mission.

On a more serious note - this government is not the old government. They are seperate entities. One was uncontrolled, the other watched, and under obligations to a treaty they are signing.

As such, that leads us to the conclusion: you are going to war with Hataria because we threw out your treaty. Correct?

Uruguay declared war on Germany in the last days of WW2, so how is this unusual?
And Hataria has already breached numerous treaties, i know because i observed the "signings" of the previous ones
And i have shown no desire to commence genocidal actions

Official Decleration

The Confederate States of Spizania has tried to reason with Hataria, and has come to the conclusion that its allies have long since realised, that Hataria cannot be reasoned with, and the only thing it understands is overwhelming force. Therefore it is my duty to inform you that a state of war now exists between Hataria and The Confederate States of Spizania, as constitued by Article 5 of the Common Charter.

Commander In Chief, Confederate Expeditionary Command
Field Marshal David Copperfield

Ministry of State

We wish to remind you that allied forces are still deployed in Hataria. We will respond against any attack against them with due force and will not stop until the threat is neutralized. For the sake of treaty negotations and the lives of your men as well as our own, we strongly suggest that you halt your aggression immediately.

Proconsul Valerian Kosyachenko, Ministry of State

OOC:
He didnt just refuse to accept the treaty, he showed no willingness to even come to the table

OOC: he has agreed to sign other treaties with less harsh measures, so i dont know what you mean by that...

Official Decleration

The Confederate States of Spizania has tried to reason with Hataria, and has come to the conclusion that its allies have long since realised, that Hataria cannot be reasoned with, and the only thing it understands is overwhelming force. Therefore it is my duty to inform you that a state of war now exists between Hataria and The Confederate States of Spizania, as constitued by Article 5 of the Common Charter.

Commander In Chief, Confederate Expeditionary Command
Field Marshal David Copperfield

Official Statement from the United Dominion

What the fuck are you on? That was nothing but a surrender treaty and you know it. You’re not sane enough to rule a nation. Your and those Haven nation’s treaty was only for the surrender of a nation. Are you on drugs as only one would on drugs would have signed that unfair treaty.

Signed,
Caesar Jason Scotus Lupus
The Emperor of the United Dominion
The Lord Marshall of the Dominion Commonwealth
The Co-Regional Governor of Romania
The Count of Transylvania
The CEO and Owner of Timber Wolf Incorporated and it sub-companies

Treaty of Tangalee
We, the Several Involved Nations accept Hataria’s complete surrender and the cession of hostilities only under the following circumstances:

1) Restrictions on the Armed Forces:

A) Restriction of Army:
Limits of the following:


* Five-Hundred (500) Special Operations troops, subject to exclusive and special review by the Upper House
* Four-Thousand (4000) armed military vehicles, no more than 750 to be tanks.
* Seven Thousand Five Hundred (7,500) noncombat mechanized vehicles not listed above
* Five-Hundred Thousand (500,000) standard ground troops. They may not be trained for more than six continuous months at a time, and only as often as once every four years. They may not be armed with more than a standard assault rifle, standard body armor, standard chemical gas mask, small communications kit, camouflage, and necessary survival supplies. There is no limit to reserve troops except as noted in Section F.



B) Restrictions on Navy:
Restriction of Hatarian navy to the following:


* Five (5) Battleships, not to exceed the 100,000 tones full displacement.
* Twenty Five (25) Cruisers, not to exceed 18,000 tones full displacement.
* Eighty Five (85) Destroyers, not to exceed 12,500 tones full displacement. This includes Helidestroyers.
* Two Hundred Thirty (230) Frigates and other small escort and littoral craft, not to exceed 5,500 tones full displacement.
* No restriction on small littoral combat craft, such as Boghammers, each craft not to exceed 1,500 tones full displacement.
* No restriction on noncombat Naval vessels, including landing craft, auxiliary craft, et cetera
* At no time are submarines, aircraft carriers, aircraft carrying cruisers, UAV carriers or arsenal ships to be developed by the Hatarian Navy
* No restriction on Coast Guard vessels, except that they cannot exceed 4,200 tons displacement and must be unarmed/unarmable.



C) Restrictions on Air Force:


* One Thousand Five Hundred (1,500) Fighter aircraft of all types
* One Thousand (1000) Ground Attack aircraft of all types
* Seventy-Five (75) Bomber aircraft of all types, all of which to be equal to or smaller than in payload and range to a B-52 Stratofortress
* No restriction on unarmed noncombat aircraft, such as tankers, transports, trainers, et cetera. These aircraft must not be capable of accepting any sort of armament without extensive modifications.



D) Restrictions on Strategic Forces:
Hataria may not develop Nuclear, Chemical, Biological, or Satellite weapons of any type. Any and all such weapons currently possessed will be destroyed at approved sites within Hataria.

E) Manufacture and Sale:
Hataria is not permitted to manufacture or sell military equipment in excess of thrice these limits per year. All manufacturing sites are to be monitored at all times.

F) Additional Notes
Hataria must submit new designs, along with technical manuals and blueprints, to the Upper House for evaluation against these above guidelines. Such Guidelines are subject to revision in order to ensure that they are kept up to date with changing technology. All vehicles exceeding maximum standards will be destroyed by inspection teams. All current equipment in excess of the above limits is to be auctioned off or decommissioned and scrapped at approved sites across Hataria. Funds from such auctions will be put into a general fund for the improvement of Hatarian infrastructure and the payment of War Debts. All personnel in excess of the above limits are to be dismissed from the armed forces. An additional full amount of the above equipment limits may be placed in reserve, to be monitored by Inspection Teams at all times. At no point are all combined Hatarian military forces, including logistics, reserve, and military noncombat personel, to exceed .5% of the Hatarian Population.

2) Surrender of Sovereignty:
Hataria surrenders all sovereignty and the hallmarks thereof to an Occupational Government for a period not to exceed ten years from the date of adoption of this treaty. The Several Involved Nations will be allowed to keep military personnel in Hataria as they deem fit, with any one member's complement not outweighing the total of all other member’s forces combined, and the total not to exceed the total size of the Hatarian military.

3) Occupational Government:
An Occupational Government shall be formed. It shall be jointly made by the Several Involved Nations and the nation of Hataria.
A) Legislature:
The Legislature will be bicameral.
i) Upper House
The Upper House, formed with one voting representative from each of the Several Involved Nations, shall have the ultimate say over all matters within Hataria, including those holdings of the Several Involved Nations. Measures will be passed by simple majority except where otherwise specified. There shall be a single nonvoting representative from the Dominion Commonwealth and a single voting representative from the Hatarian Lower House permitted. The Hatarian representative is to have equal authority to a representative from one of the Several Involved Nations, while the Commonwealth representative is to have all privileges of the others but those of voting, holding office in an Upper House committee, and calling for a vote.
ii) Lower House
The Lower House will consist totally of Hatarian elected officials, and will undertake the day to day business necessary to run the nation. Additional details of the Lower House are to be decided at a constitutional convention set for a later date.
B) Executive:
There shall be an Executive Branch with veto power over the lower house of the Legislature but not over the upper house of the Legislature. Additional powers are to be decided at a constitutional convention set for a later date.
C) Judicial:
There shall be an independent Judiciary Branch within Hataria with the ultimate say over constitutional matters over the Executive Branch and the lower house of the Legislative Branch. Additional powers are to be decided at a constitutional convention set for a later date.
D) Constitution:
A Constitutional Convention shall be called for an examination of the current Hatarian Constitution and an alteration of it to fit the above requirements. The Constitution must be approved by the Hatarian People and the Upper House. If the current constitution is found to be easily compatible with the above requirements, no alterations will be made.
E)Alterations:
This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

4) War Indemnities
The total cost of the war shall be paid in full by Hataria. It shall be indexed for global inflation. The debt shall be paid in a period not to exceed one hundred years from the date of the adoption of this treaty. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

5) Eventual return of Sovereignty
The Upper House of the Hatarian Legislature shall work to eventually return total Sovereignty to the Hatarian people in no more than ten years from the adoption of this treaty. All holdings of the Several Involved Nations shall be kept as parts of those separate nations, except in cases of that nation falling. In case a Concerned Nation falls, a plebiscite shall be held to determine if it wishes to be independent or absorbed into Hataria or one of the Several Involved Nations. The outcome of this plebiscite will determine the fate of the territory, regardless of the wishes of the Upper House. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

6) Several Involved Nations:
A) Membership:


* The Armed Capitalist Republic of The Silver Sky
* The Glorious Military Junta of No Endorse
* The Grand Imperium of Whyatica
* The Republic of the Blub Colony
* The Royal Georgian League
* Jaredcohenia
* Transylvannia
* Delphire



B) Holdings:
The total holdings of all of the Several Involved Nations shall not exceed Fifteen percent (15%) of the total territory of Hataria. Such holdings shall be integrated into their respective Nations, and become legitimate claims. None of the Several Involved Nations may sell, cede, or through any other process transfer any portion of their holding in Hataria to any other party unless approved by the Hatarian Government. None of the Several Involved Nations may hold any of the top 5 population centers of Hataria, nor may any hold the capitol. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

7) Defense of Hataria
The Several Involved Nations are required to protect Hataria from any unwarranted aggressive attacks. However, they are not required to pursue this enemy from beyond the borders of Hataria. That shall only be done as independently deemed necessary, or can be initiated by a vote in the Upper House. This article may not be altered by the Upper House.

8) Hatarian Military Actions
A) Offensive:
The Hatarian military shall be for self-defense purposely only, accordingly nothing shall infringe upon the right of Hataria to engage in military operations aimed at defending Hataria from direct hostile foreign military aggression. Hataria is not allowed to occupy foreign territory. Any territory taken by Hataria shall be administered by Upper House and/or the Several Involved Nations. The Hatarian Military may hold territory for up to Three (3) Months before turning over administration to the Upper House and/or the Several Involved Nations. The fate of all acquired territory shall be determined by joint agreement between the Upper House and the Hatarian Government.
B) Defensive:
Hataria may defend itself against any aggressor to the extent necessary, and if attacked first and unjustly, may pursue the enemy to their homelands. In this case, the Upper House may temporarily suspend Article 1. However, the territory taken in this war is still subject to Article 8 Subsection A, and Article 1 may be re-instated at the whim of the Upper House at any time.
C) Additional Notes:
Hataria may take part in any multinational peacekeeping operation, so long as this operation does not violate any other part of this treaty. Article 8 may not be altered by the Upper House.

9) Violations:
Violation of any of the above terms on the part of Hataria shall result in declaration of war against Hataria, ending only when one of the following has been accomplished:


* Hataria is determined by the Several Involved Nations to no longer be a threat to international peace
* The Hatarian state ceases to exist
* The Hataria agrees to resume adherence to this or any other treaty drafted by the original Several Involved Nations plus any other Involved Parties (as deemed so by the Upper House)



10) War Guilt
Hataria must accept sole responsibility for this war for its actions against Blub Colony in the past. There shall be no other repercussions of such, only that it shall be stated in the history books that it was the sole fault of Hataria and its government at the time that such this war was started.

11) Alterations to this treaty
The Upper House may, through two-thirds (2/3) majority, alter the points on this treaty that are not expressedly forbidden to them. A Special Congress of the Several Involved Nations and the Hatarian Government is necessary to alter sections of the treaty that are forbidden to the Upper House. The Upper House may not alter this article.

Posted on behest of No Endorse, revised version of Spiz's lol treaty of fail.

Posted on behest of No Endorse, revised version of Spiz's lol treaty of fail.

OOC: It is still a bloody surrender treaty! It will not be signed by anybody, but the warmongers.

TRANSYLVANIA! Read your TGs immediately. I have to inform you of something.

TRANSYLVANIA! Read your TGs immediately. I have to inform you of something.

OOC: I checked them and there isn’t a bloody way he could do that. But thanks for hinting that out.

OOC: I checked them and there isn’t a bloody way he could do that. But thanks for hinting that out.

I just wanted to point out who you let into the DC...now can you understand why I didn't trust him?

I just wanted to point out who you let into the DC...now can you understand why I didn't trust him?

OOC: I’ll set him straight, too. I’m already pissed at this nonsense, so he currently on thin ice with me OOCly. Nobody is going to take over my alliance.

OOC: I’ll set him straight, too. I’m already pissed at this nonsense, so he currently on thin ice with me OOCly. Nobody is going to take over my alliance.

OOC:
Well, I hope that this whole IC business gets overwith quickly because I am getting tired of arguing. All I want is everyone to be involved and not just Hataria. However, with Hataria giving that bit of information, I'm kinda thinking that I should reveal his plan and have him skrewed over. What do you say?

OOC:
Well, I hope that this whole IC business gets overwith quickly because I am getting tired of arguing. All I want is everyone to be involved and not just Hataria. However, with Hataria giving that bit of information, I'm kinda thinking that I should reveal his plan and have him skrewed over. What do you say?

his plan?

Indeed. I daresay you posted that to get us to ask questions...WHAT PLAN! :p

OOC:
Well, I hope that this whole IC business gets overwith quickly because I am getting tired of arguing. All I want is everyone to be involved and not just Hataria. However, with Hataria giving that bit of information, I'm kinda thinking that I should reveal his plan and have him skrewed over. What do you say?

OOC: I’m trying to get everybody to be involved, but not force unfairness on anybody at the same time.

OOC:
Yes, I posted it purposely so that he'd go, "why the hell did I trust him?". Anyway, I will not post unless Transylvania wants me to. However, if I did, I probably will persuade a lot of you Hataria supporters to the other side...

This being in response to people wanting me to reveal what Hataria told me on MSN.

Uruguay declared war on Germany in the last days of WW2, so how is this unusual?
And Hataria has already breached numerous treaties, i know because i observed the "signings" of the previous ones
And i have shown no desire to commence genocidal actions

Yes, well. That's Uruguay. Hardly a threat.
As for breaching numerous treaties, they were vague, and most clauses left severe loopholes which are being amended for.
Finally, Hataria has little/no military. You'll be fighting unarmed civilians. Oh, right, that'd be one of the things that counts towards genocide.

OOC:
Yes, I posted it purposely so that he'd go, "why the hell did I trust him?". Anyway, I will not post unless Transylvania wants me to. However, if I did, I probably will persuade a lot of you Hataria supporters to the other side...

This being in response to people wanting me to reveal what Hataria told me on MSN.

great, now im all curious and wont be satisfied until i see this "plan" you speak of...

OOC:
Yes, I posted it purposely so that he'd go, "why the hell did I trust him?". Anyway, I will not post unless Transylvania wants me to. However, if I did, I probably will persuade a lot of you Hataria supporters to the other side...

This being in response to people wanting me to reveal what Hataria told me on MSN.

Tell us! Tell us! Tell us! Tell us! Tell us! Tell us! Tell us! Tell us! Tell us!...Tell us! Tell us! Tell us! *takes breath* Tell us!...

Well...go on then!

OOC:
Yes, I posted it purposely so that he'd go, "why the hell did I trust him?". Anyway, I will not post unless Transylvania wants me to. However, if I did, I probably will persuade a lot of you Hataria supporters to the other side...

This being in response to people wanting me to reveal what Hataria told me on MSN.

OOC: But it would be for OOC reason then anything. People can say whatever they want OOC, but it will be a godmode to change sides for that OOC knowledge. Unless they act ICly, nobody will changes sides.

OOC:
We could always say:

"Now, I must reveal to you the man for whom you support ICly..."

OOC:
We could always say:

"Now, I must reveal to you the man for whom you support ICly..."

OOC: It was Just a Joke Delphire.

So, what the hell is going on? It seems like things are falling apart...

OOC: It was Just a Joke Delphire.

OOC:
You should know that you do not joke around with the person who feels obligated to regain the support of his friends. You should also know that you do not joke around with plots like that. I never do. What I talk about, I do most of the time. What you spoke of would gain a lot of support for Haven's actions, even if it was OOC. Why? Because not everyone in the NS world goes by the rules. The main reason I left the DC was because I could not trust you. Now this 'joke' just gives me justification for leaving the DC. Good job pal!

Indeed. Do I have to resort to the copy-paste "Tell us!" again?

OOC:You should know that you do not joke around with the person who feels obligated to regain the support of his friends. You should also know that you do not joke around with plots like that. I never do. What I talk about, I do most of the time. What you spoke of would gain a lot of support for Haven's actions, even if it was OOC. Why? Because not everyone in the NS world goes by the rules. The main reason I left the DC was because I could not trust you. Now this 'joke' just gives me justification for leaving the DC. Good job pal!

OOC: That joke was an OOC thing. So did you leave because an OOC issued or an IC issue? You'll be mixing IC and OOC.

OOC: That joke was an OOC thing. So do you leave because an OOC issued or an IC issue? You'll be mixing IC and OOC.

OOC:
Both.

OOC: Both.

OOC: That’s good to know, but I hate a lot of people OOCly, too. I haven’t started IC war with any of those people, have I? I haven’t forced unfair treaties on those people, have I? The answer is no to both.

OOC:
Well, this OOC is getting off topic. If you people want to know, go to the OOC discussion thread. Thank you.