NationStates Jolt Archive

Is there a way to identify or have superior units or incredible importance or influence (on the kind of a powerful general, superior ace, professional assassin) marked and recognized as a heroic unit that will generally be considered to be unkillable on a conventional means or dealt with on a different level?

An example would be Noir (Legendary assassin that plagued Europe for 1000 years), Golgo (Ace hitman that performs nearly impossible (but still possible) kills).

Or is that generally not done now?

OOC- You are not the first to think of the potential of this idea. Back in my A.D.N. days, I introduced the concept of a character-of-destiny. CoD's are characters who wield unnatural influence over the rp when compared to standard characters.

I also recognized that CoD's have to be limited in terms of number, and they have to be stated up front at the beginning of an rp in order to prevent people from abusing them. What's more, CoD's can be matched by other CoD's.

I am glad someone else other than myself thought of the potential of this idea. Kudos. :)

Generally that sort of thing would be considered cheating.

How so?

Remember, these things should be plot devices...not tools for winning Nationstates.

Excellently spoken.

Generally that sort of thing would be considered cheating.

This statement is false. It is very possible to have Heroic Units and such...whether or not the other player will allow it to be used in the thread is a different matter all together. Such characters, suicide squads, etc, should only ever be used after consulting the other player...otherwise you might just land yourself in a bitchfest.

Remember, these things should be plot devices...not tools for winning Nationstates.

I missed Sharl's post. I suppose sumething like he said could remedy that problem, but it would all have to be agreed upon.

Oh, of course. CoD's are not something that goes unless all the interested parties agree. There'd be serious problems otherwise. Plus, discretion is the key...a CoD soldier, for example, can't be all over the place. Realistic usage is required. I often minted one of my spies or commandos as a CoD...someone on the tactical level instead of, say, the President of my country.

I missed Sharl's post. I suppose sumething like he said could remedy that problem, but it would all have to be agreed upon.

This statement is false. It is very possible to have Heroic Units and such...whether or not the other player will allow it to be used in the thread is a different matter all together. Such characters, suicide squads, etc, should only ever be used after consulting the other player...otherwise you might just land yourself in a bitchfest.

Remember, these things should be plot devices...not tools for winning Nationstates.

Your last note is the most important.

OOC- You are not the first to think of the potential of this idea. Back in my A.D.N. days, I introduced the concept of a character-of-destiny. CoD's are characters who wield unnatural influence over the rp when compared to standard characters.

I also recognized that CoD's have to be limited in terms of number, and they have to be stated up front at the beginning of an rp in order to prevent people from abusing them. What's more, CoD's can be matched by other CoD's.

I am glad someone else other than myself thought of the potential of this idea. Kudos. :)

I see. :)

All my CoD's as you can call them are usually dead going into a thing. My greatest general in my last nation (maybe need to get Mationbuds back on it, now that he is back) had a superior general that was clearly a absolute genius of combat and tactics giving her weak forces superior commands and response through communication.

Everything past 03-04 I never really dealt with them because of the 'godmod' issue. Though its a good thing to know that certain people (like the assassins I mentioned) can be accepted sometimes. Afterall...such people exist in the world, but its unlikely to have many of them at command. :)

I see. :)

All my CoD's as you can call them are usually dead going into a thing. My greatest general in my last nation (maybe need to get Mationbuds back on it, now that he is back) had a superior general that was clearly a absolute genius of combat and tactics giving her weak forces superior commands and response through communication.

Everything past 03-04 I never really dealt with them because of the 'godmod' issue. Though its a good thing to know that certain people (like the assassins I mentioned) can be accepted sometimes. Afterall...such people exist in the world, but its unlikely to have many of them at command. :)

I do not necessarily see it as godmod by itself. Every now and then, a pure genius arises in one arena or another...a great political thinker like John Locke or a master general like Hannibal. What matters is how the CoD is used. There are certain people on here who I'd be wary of accepting a CoD request from because I think they'd use it to justify utter domination.

Why do you think I ignore Hataria? :P

Why do you think I ignore Hataria? :P

I didn't wish to mention any particular nation...

I for one have Lord Baker, my national leader. He's a character of this type to some degree. I also have my Grenzschutzgruppe 9 (Border Guards Group 9, GSG-9 for short). They have become somewhat...reknowned as being a hell of a Special Operations team. I've also become very fond of them and of using them....:D

I had a very unusual question that even I couldn't answer....a questionable hero character that had more information on the entire clan and their history...so much info that its well...larger then most people's entire factbooks put together.

It was an ancient clan, all super killers (your CoD) kind. Who's ancestors (three of them I think) nearly eliminated an entire nation personally. The death total through the this clan's history is in hundreds to thousands per member.

The clan is incredibly smart and strong by genetics, and are matched with incredible technology. Perfect killing machines for combat. Something on par with the super assassins of the films.

Its like a Zatoichi or Junpei showing up to deal with some rogues. Total overkill. (Japanese films) Think Guts from Berserk (Slayer of 100 men in a single battle. 100 on 1).

Hard to describe without seeing the concept designs and the paper. Though this one guy is definately into the CoD group.

Yo, Eralineta, you better get on ESS or your going to be kicked out of China.

Since only you have control of what happens to your units, you can get away with keeping one or two special characters alive. Of course it is considered bad form to never let your units die, but a main character can always be made an exception. How interesting would the movie have been if Indiana got crushed by that huge boulder in the opening scene?

Lets say for example your great admiral is on board the flagship of your navy when it is attacked by an overwhelming force. While you might be expected to accept the loss of the flagship you are not expected to accept the loss of the admiral. You can have him escape by submarine or helicopter, or make it so he had just left the flagship to review another ship or whatever the hell you want!

Yo, Eralineta, you better get on ESS or your going to be kicked out of China.

I'm still active there though, I just posted not more then an hour or two ago from when you posted.

Special characters?

Like the ones I actually bother giving names and history or other stuff of that nature, causing them to be more experianced/better able to do things.

(Plus, there is a natural tendancy to not want them killed, though they do die/age/retire, allowing/requiring me to re-invent replacements, thus, the 'regular', rent-a-cop/stormtrooper grade troops are just that)

Likewaise, if I deploy a named character against a named character, they are equals by default, against stormtrooper grade nameless characters, they'll be at a slight unnatural disadvantage (due to micro-managing the movements of named character and taking liberties when inferring the meaning of some vague lanket statements.

Though there are also 'quality unit' nameless characters, in which act as a named character, except without any particular history/past.

And then there are 'stormtroopers' led by either QUNCs or Named characters, in which case they get a performance boost due to the added perspective in the RP, allowing a more definite picture of the events in the RP.

I could invent/link some examples.

Actual use of names is not really required, though that is how I keep track of my 'main charcter' units. And one can't have your main characters killed b the dozen, so I only send out less than 5 per theater of operations, QUNCs are deployed in units of 1 per smallest deployed unit not under a main character's command or more.

Is it a bad thing to have the names of 30000+ troops/special units....?

Edit: Not fooling. I got slammed with addresses, names, locations, past experiences and all this other stuff....Right down to platoon colors, names and past histories.

As long as it doesn't degenerate into hero-wanking, it's fine by me.

Frankly, if you aren't willing to kill your heroes off, you're just boring:p

Li Yuan-- Hero of the docks. An escaped Martial Arts Super Insurgent from the Imperial Republic of Ming. He was responsible for organizing the first retaking of the barge factories during Revolt of 1933. Trained since infancy in the martial arts, guerrilla warfare, and the arts of infiltration, he escaped from his training camp on the Mangole steps, and eventually made it to the docks, where he initially worked as a dock hand. He is modeled after Black Mask and the early pulp martial arts heroes.

Is it a bad thing to have the names of 30000+ troops/special units....?

Edit: Not fooling. I got slammed with addresses, names, locations, past experiences and all this other stuff....Right down to platoon colors, names and past histories.

Out of context: I'm most likely using a different vernacular. So some terms I use may not be the same as 'standard', likewise, I'm not attepting to standardize the terms, except when reffering to my own wording conventions.

In context:
Not really, though I'd expect a few of them to have died of old age eventually.

A 'high quality stormtrooper' (an oxymoron) with or without a name or history isn't really a special unit, it just means the director went to great lengths to introduce the 'human element' into his RPs.

There are also 'one shots', or charcters that are created almost solely for a single RP or post and then are discarded, either by changing perspective, retirement, or death of the 'unit'.

It really depends on what is so 'special' of the special characters.
In my case 'special' means I gave them name and history, and most likely have appeared in multiple RPs to easily track my troop deployments, and as a quick way o check if I'm deploying units already deployed or otherwise unqualified for a mision.

Like special elite force people that are so important you actually name them all?

Like special elite force people that are so important you actually name them all?

Yes.

Specific commanders, all leaders from Major up to General. Several high-ranking special ops units and their people. People in specific squadrons of high merit or ability. Every ace within the air force is named. Every sniper is named. The counter terrorism unit seems to be a list of 1000-1500 people spanning the entire organization (apparently a very important and influencial piece).

Its as if all these assassins, commanders and other things (which I don't know how they are used RP wise) do have at least SOME history. I took a look at the things...its over 100+ pages of character bios, history and other stuff. I think he's an old Masquerade player. :P

As for aging...the reason why they don't die of old age...his nation ages at a much slower rate then the 1 day 1 year thing. Infact...he was going for 1 day 1 week. Which would give him several years or more (real life) to use characters. Though it seems the technological limit is really more of a crusher on that aspect then another.

Whether it is frowned upon or not, everyone will have at least one or two characters who magically never die no matter how bleak the outlook is against them, and can fight their way out of any situation; and against them most other units are at a disadvantage, no matter how numerous or well-trained. At present I can think of few NS players who do not have such characters. So I'd assume that it's perfectly ok to have such characters because even if your fellow roleplayers have some qualms, they'll frequently do the same thing.

-- Envoy of the Nova.

I am still reading x-x! It's been HOURS. I think my nation is going to be completely destroyed if just 1-2 of his soldiers decide to get serious. Even the nameless soldiers have would not be farfetched to kill 100-250 of us per 1 of his.

All his troops are nearly invisible. All his troops are commandos on super steriods basically. They can literally pick up Humvees (2-3, balancing issues mostly) and chuck them or whatever. They can jump 35 feet or more into the air and have armor that can allow them to take a AP round in the face and laugh it off.

The special units are insane! They are similar to the soldiers, but outright scary in experience and fighting potentional.

A single special OPs guy could lay waste to an entire town of mine. Throwing everything they have at it. They can run faster then most of my tanks and can literally rip open the hatches and take out the entire tank. I think I'd have nightmares if they were real.

I'd have revolutionize my whole military just to even stand a chance against him. >.> I'm sad now.

And this is MT/PMT?

If you want information on hero units then talk to Huntear and Coreworlds or anyone who uses jedi or sith. If your are in FT then the way to get large numbers of high experinced troops is to use age slowing drugs, that make it aso that for every 10 years that pass they age 1 year. Once they pass a certian age they teach all of their gathered combat knowledge to the new recruits.

I am still reading x-x! It's been HOURS. I think my nation is going to be completely destroyed if just 1-2 of his soldiers decide to get serious. Even the nameless soldiers have would not be farfetched to kill 100-250 of us per 1 of his.

All his troops are nearly invisible. All his troops are commandos on super steriods basically. They can literally pick up Humvees (2-3, balancing issues mostly) and chuck them or whatever. They can jump 35 feet or more into the air and have armor that can allow them to take a AP round in the face and laugh it off.

The special units are insane! They are similar to the soldiers, but outright scary in experience and fighting potentional.

A single special OPs guy could lay waste to an entire town of mine. Throwing everything they have at it. They can run faster then most of my tanks and can literally rip open the hatches and take out the entire tank. I think I'd have nightmares if they were real.

I'd have revolutionize my whole military just to even stand a chance against him. >.> I'm sad now.

That's completly impossible in MT.

Would be NS MT or early PMT. All the technology exists now or is in developement (proof of concept or higher).

Um, no. Maybe in PMT. In MT there is no way. That screams godmod. And while they may be in the drawing board, they arent prototypes yet.

Um, no. Maybe in PMT. In MT there is no way. That screams godmod. And while they may be in the drawing board, they arent prototypes yet.

Check the Future Warrior system out.

OOC: sounds like soemone has read tinman a few too many times...

Check the Future Warrior system out.

Yeah, but obviously you dont know that Future Warrior in not an exoskeleton.

What's that?

Powered armour, basically..And we still haven't managed to make, irl, a power system small enough to make a worthwhile suit of military powered armour..

As for me, I'd only use "herioc" type people if me, and the other player(s) in the rp agreed it was all right to, before hand..

After all we are here to have fun, rather to "win", neh?

I for one have Lord Baker, my national leader. He's a character of this type to some degree. I also have my Grenzschutzgruppe 9 (Border Guards Group 9, GSG-9 for short). They have become somewhat...renowned as being a hell of a Special Operations team. I've also become very fond of them and of using them....:D

In the same manner as Wanderjar mentioned, I have always maintained the skill of my 42nd Division Light Infantry, the only division of unaugmented soldiers in the entire Dominion.

As my nation is a series of compounds, massive single-structures in which my whole civilization is contained, the pristine wilderness around them is uninhabited. By citizens, that is. There is a significant rebel population out there, and among them, but fighting against them, are some of (as I maintain) the best light infantry in the world.

They grow up every day with the danger of being hunted and killed by the 'natives' of the wood, and so have become equally, if not more, skilled at jungle and temperate forest combat.

In their last outing (of which there have been few, for there is no efficient way to replace their losses) they did in fact impersonate some over-zealous Wanderjarian GSG-9 agents.

Whether it is frowned upon or not, everyone will have at least one or two characters who magically never die no matter how bleak the outlook is against them, and can fight their way out of any situation; and against them most other units are at a disadvantage, no matter how numerous or well-trained. At present I can think of few NS players who do not have such characters. So I'd assume that it's perfectly ok to have such characters because even if your fellow roleplayers have some qualms, they'll frequently do the same thing.

-- Envoy of the Nova.

Sure... just as when a single half crazy corporal decides to frag 2 of my 'special' (and named) troops with a handful of grenades and a full mag of bullets to their chest...

Followed by running their dead bodies over with a tank as a demolition charge blows up the building they were standing next to.
---------
Alidor/Ironcia made a claim that my named troops almost survived anything, even though every so often they died of simple things, such as being crushed by falling debris WTC style, getting eaten alive, shot, blown up, stabbed, captured, and drowned.

He complained mostly because one of my troops managed to jump one of his search parties and escape with a wounded leg, causing very few casualties to the search party, besides simply wrecking their jeeps and radios; and myserlf throwing one of my troops from a plane simply as a plot device.
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I take it as an insult when someone claims ANY of my troops cannot be killed.

I also take it as very bad form when someone refuses to let a character die in spite of very poor choices that would generally kill anything else.

And then there was my character 'Hannibal', he was a re-occuring piece of half-dead flesh with some intellegence, mostly he was just a crutch until my first batch of surviving characters managed to build up their own history within the events they took part in (to the point I didn't even have to decide their actions for them, I merely stipulated what they would do), after that, I dumped his decomposing corpse in the nearest plane bound for demolition and flew him a one way flight into the afterlife...

Is there a way to identify or have superior units or incredible importance or influence (on the kind of a powerful general, superior ace, professional assassin) marked and recognized as a heroic unit that will generally be considered to be unkillable on a conventional means or dealt with on a different level?

An example would be Noir (Legendary assassin that plagued Europe for 1000 years), Golgo (Ace hitman that performs nearly impossible (but still possible) kills).

Or is that generally not done now?

You're speaking of a character shield, where important characters are shielded from harm unless necessary to the plot, no?

Such characters are extremely boring and godmoddish.
I myself would never indulge in such practices, granted I do have above-average humans, but that is exactly what and all they are.
Anyone of my troops could still die if picked off by a sniper or such like.

There are characters who under some circumstances would not die, such as the bunker they were in was hit by a missiles of insufficient power to destroy the building/kill everyone, a certain named character would likely escape in the place of several dead comrades.

However, if one of my characters was standing there and a bunch of enemies came in and opened up on them with 10 kg's of mobile lead they'd die like anyone else.

I don't care who your characters are 1-100 is plain haxx, unless your characters are better trained, better equipped, more experienced, have the terrain advantage and a whole bunch of other advantages, even then unless the enemy is human waving you it's unlikely to get anywhere near that.

For example, the strongest troops you're likely to face from me are Generation Four Enhanced humans, belonging to the Children of Uldarious.
In this circumstance you'd be fighting someone who was at the peak of Uldarion genetic manipulation, the said soldier would have been adopted by the state and trained for fourteen years, likely experienced several battles and then been given an extra dose of genetic enhancements, he'd be equipped with the best technology available as well as being faster, stronger, more durable and have faster reaction time than an ordinary soldier.
Now this soldier would be extremely rare and on a 1v1 basis he'd probably win hands down, but I wouldn't consider sending him against more than 5:1 odds, without significant other advantages also being present.

Basically no matter what every soldier has their limits.

The only time I'd say a soldier could survive everything without argument, would be if he was the narrator, or a neutral observer.

I see. :)

All my CoD's as you can call them are usually dead going into a thing. My greatest general in my last nation (maybe need to get Mationbuds back on it, now that he is back) had a superior general that was clearly a absolute genius of combat and tactics giving her weak forces superior commands and response through communication.

Everything past 03-04 I never really dealt with them because of the 'godmod' issue. Though its a good thing to know that certain people (like the assassins I mentioned) can be accepted sometimes. Afterall...such people exist in the world, but its unlikely to have many of them at command. :)

LOL =P

I, Lord Victor Gray, am a CoD, and have survived many assassination attempts that would have killed a lesser man. However, my troops, despite superb training and the best PMT equipment available, can and do die. And even I have some limits. I was forced from power for a long time while I dealt with an external threat and as a result, Latora virtually disappeared from the world scene (my IC reason for a CTE).

LOL =P

Hush x-x... She was good....but if I remember correctly you took most of her crap out fast.