NationStates Jolt Archive

I have an idea for a giant nuke ray.

You know how if you take a stick of dynamite and place it in a REALLY REALLY strong pipe so that the pipe withstands the blast if the tnt blew a jet of flame would come out the end(s). Imagine that with a nuclear bomb, you could aim beams of heated plasma accurately at certain positions. The firing mechanism could use solid ammo like uranium then make it explode inside the strong tube making a jet fly out the end.

Thoughts/comments?

Yamato Gun.

And a time warp to boot.

I have an idea for a giant nuke ray.

You know how if you take a stick of dynamite and place it in a REALLY REALLY strong pipe so that the pipe withstands the blast if the tnt blew a jet of flame would come out the end(s). Imagine that with a nuclear bomb, you could aim beams of heated plasma accurately at certain positions. The firing mechanism could use solid ammo like uranium then make it explode inside the strong tube making a jet fly out the end.

Thoughts/comments?

Yamato Gun.

And a time warp to boot.

Thats how the Yamato gun works? I thought it was simply energy from generators focused in a beam. :confused:

Thats how the Yamato gun works? I thought it was simply energy from generators focused in a beam. :confused:

According to the handbook it's a directed nuclear energy weapon. Powerful EM fields(your tube) contain a nuclear explosion, and direct the blast. You've got an effectively "Yamato Missile" concept.

Sounds quite expensive...only the strongest economies and alliances could afford it.

Sounds quite expensive...only the strongest economies and alliances could afford it.

Do the words "19 trillion dollar defense budget" have any meaning to you? It's a big bomb pumped laser. With maybe some major secondary effects.

Sounds quite expensive...only the strongest economies and alliances could afford it.

Well StarCraft is in space and minerals (like Uranium, Radium ect) are plentiful, just min asteroids. So munitions would be plentiful thus significantly lowering costs.

What kind of barrel would be able to withstand a nuclear blast over and over?

What kind of barrel would be able to withstand a nuclear blast over and over?

Just about anything I'd armor my ships with? Most any suitable FT Wankmetal will serve.

Just about anything I'd armor my ships with? Most any suitable FT Wankmetal will serve.

awesome! I have an idea for a new storefront product methinks. :)

That, and you'd basically be using nukes do do X-ray lasers. If you wanted a jet you'd need to dump a few kilotonnes of gas to provide atmosphere to create an explosion.

Also, by the time you get close enough for the jet to hit your enemies you could have just shot the nukes at them and caused significantly more damage. In space, even 1km distances are rather like leaning into somebody else with your whole torso. Not just point blank, but blatant infringement of personal space.

And the fact that if the tube is made of armor that can withstand repeated blasts from whatever nuke you use, then odds are good that the armor you're shooting at will exhibit the same resiliency. Which was kinda the point.

I doubt a metal would work, but most energy shields in future tech can take a couple direct hits from a nuclear weapon. Nuclear weapons don't do much to a ship from star trek per se. An energy shielded containment bottle could direct the energy of the blast, creating a bomb pumped laser or particle beam.

Photon torpedoes already are more dangerous than this thing, they use antimatter (deuterium and anti-deuterium) which has more explosive power than nuclear energy. Also singularity weapons and a couple other things in future tech have higher energy capacities. It would be in line with many standard future tech weapons. Also phasers in star trek for example which are a fancy name for particle beam cannon already have a higher maximum energy capacity than lasers, xray lasers, etc.

You might end up with a very powerful sounding weapon thoroughly outclassed by a variety of mundane future tech weapons.

Beyond that, it makes more sense just to nuke them, becuase the weapon would lose the power that is absorbed by the shields and the power that vaporizes the small smounts of material between your ship and the opponent. Remember that space is not empty. Add to that the energy you'll be using to contain the blast, and it becomes a rather expesive weapon.

Anti matter releases all of the energy of the mass that is used, nukes use ~1% of the total energy of the mass, meaning that antimatter can be more powerful if you can get enough of it.

Do the words "19 trillion dollar defense budget" have any meaning to you? It's a big bomb pumped laser. With maybe some major secondary effects.

The Republic of The Union of Sharona

Defense: T$163.62 billion 23%

Source: NSTracker

You most certainly do not have that capability, as you implied.

Seriously do you guys just pull this out of your butt or what?

I don't see how a Yamato gun is a laser in any respect, maybe you guys should seriously research what the heck you are talking about before making up your own facts. If you want to make a good FT weapon it has to be energy-based to contain the initial blast, but such things as 'photon torpedos' are stupid. Seriously if you want a good technology, don't take random words strung together for a show SERIOUSLY.

Yamato can't work under conventional means, HOWEVER, it can be held with a very very very strong pulse of EMP. You need the field to direct the blast out, but it's beyond me how you get an EMP field in a linear fashion outside the ship to do so (physics are against you), but as long as you focus it to a single point I doubt that you'll have any problems given the time before a hit. Lorrentz and all acts in your favor on this.

FT wank materials can't hold it by nature, as that would mean your FT weapon is of no use on other ships, so it is unlikely that you'll use a weapon that can't even hurt you if you tried to. Anything that can take megatons or more joules of force per centimeter and not be destroyed it clearly a godmod and if it was true all of FT would be akin to a bunch of idiots with the inability to deal damage.

Go for the the design, just make sure you use an EMP pulse to direct the blast, by definition you'll need more energy to control it then released by the bomb for a split second (this should not be an issue as it will be measured in nano or mirco seconds).

Good luck.

The Republic of The Union of Sharona

Defense: T$163.62 billion 23%

Source: NSTracker

You most certainly do not have that capability, as you implied.

The Manticoran Alliance of Mini Miehm(my main nation)

Last known defense budget: E$25,594,535,366,400.01

Source: NSTracker

I have that capability and more.

Seriously do you guys just pull this out of your butt or what?

FT wank materials can't hold it by nature, as that would mean your FT weapon is of no use on other ships, so it is unlikely that you'll use a weapon that can't even hurt you if you tried to. Anything that can take megatons or more joules of force per centimeter and not be destroyed it clearly a godmod and if it was true all of FT would be akin to a bunch of idiots with the inability to deal damage.
Good luck.

That was rather the point. What you need to do is operate by the arbitrary statements theory, whereby a Yamato Cannon(which was arbitrarily upgunned) could 2 shot an ISD. Those were the days, I tellya...

And as for the "megatons per centimeter", giga, tera, and even petatons are not uncommon. Ships still do not disintegrate at the drop of a nuke. It may then be assumed that they do in fact posses the capability as stated.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot...

Yamato isn't technically speaking a laser, but its a helluva lot easier than saying "directed nuclear energy weapon" every time you're talking about it. And since it is a "directed nuclear energy weapon" we could call it a wannabe hellbore if you prefer such designations.

The Manticoran Alliance of Mini Miehm(my main nation)

Last known defense budget: E$25,594,535,366,400.01

Source: NSTracker

I have that capability and more.

My apologies for the mix up. I misunderestimated you.

Seriously do you guys just pull this out of your butt or what?

I don't see how a Yamato gun is a laser in any respect, maybe you guys should seriously research what the heck you are talking about before making up your own facts. If you want to make a good FT weapon it has to be energy-based to contain the initial blast, but such things as 'photon torpedos' are stupid. Seriously if you want a good technology, don't take random words strung together for a show SERIOUSLY.

Yamato can't work under conventional means, HOWEVER, it can be held with a very very very strong pulse of EMP. You need the field to direct the blast out, but it's beyond me how you get an EMP field in a linear fashion outside the ship to do so (physics are against you), but as long as you focus it to a single point I doubt that you'll have any problems given the time before a hit. Lorrentz and all acts in your favor on this.

FT wank materials can't hold it by nature, as that would mean your FT weapon is of no use on other ships, so it is unlikely that you'll use a weapon that can't even hurt you if you tried to. Anything that can take megatons or more joules of force per centimeter and not be destroyed it clearly a godmod and if it was true all of FT would be akin to a bunch of idiots with the inability to deal damage.

Go for the the design, just make sure you use an EMP pulse to direct the blast, by definition you'll need more energy to control it then released by the bomb for a split second (this should not be an issue as it will be measured in nano or mirco seconds).

Good luck.

Dude, geese, chill out. Never said it was a frickin laser, but it sure as hell aint a friggin EMP. That one dude explaines what it is in the page above me. And how bout you read the whole thing and let us experiment before you go critisising.

Dude, geese, chill out. Never said it was a frickin laser, but it sure as hell aint a friggin EMP. That one dude explaines what it is in the page above me. And how bout you read the whole thing and let us experiment before you go critisising.

1st of all read my posts and the peoples in the thread.

I was referring to Liberal Men and Women and Commonalitarianism and The Union of Sharona.

Sharona did refer to it as a laser, which is a completely different thing entirely. No matter how 'easy' it is to refer to it as a laser, it is not a laser.

Also, if the ships didn't break up do to the intense energy, I'd LOVE to ask how the metal was created for the ships if something 100000x more powerful then nukes are needed just to make this material become an alloy or liquid for construction. Seriously, there is something called the 7th state of matter, and it takes just about that much energy to produce it, but nothing can survive at all.

Secondly, singularity weapons don't work. They are assumed never to kill. If anyone studied high-energy physics they'll know this.

Thirdly, X-rays can be beaten VERY easily in MT and more so in FT. I'd just use a variable armor index of refraction to match the same wavelength and either reflect it or emit my own pulse (picked up by a t-relay communications system). Photon torpedos are rendered useless. Superluminous weapons however would require massive capital ships to counter.

Forth and foremost, NEVER say you need particles to create an explosion. Fire and explosions are VERY different. Fire is fueled by oxygen. Explosions use all the material and has no need for anything else. Hakurabi you should know about what you are talking about before suggesting explosions need an atmosphere to create an explosion.

About the close proximity fights in FT, this is largely true. Ultimately you'll have to use a response window according to Lorrentz on all counters and attacks, so long-range strikes are ineffective and bonus is granted to the defender in any attack. Also do to time issues and Star War's plasma weapons, they last only for a split second and become utterly useless over the range of a single kilometer. Shields and are also prevalent, but every FT nation seems to forget the purpose of duality in there system, but that is another matter entirely.

OOC:Eralineta, I hope you know that Toori is a much larger nation then you with much larger defense and law & order budgets. By sheer numbers it could crush you. I try to treed lightly and I believe it would be in your best interests to do so.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/neodarkheart/FT.jpg

I second that. We do not back down from, or take lightly to chalenges.

OOC:Eralineta, I hope you know that Toori is a much larger nation then you with much larger defense and law & order budgets. By sheer numbers it could crush you. I try to treed lightly and I believe it would be in your best interests to do so.

OOC 23% on both
http://nstracker.retrogade.com/index.php?nation=imperial_isa&nation2=Toori&nation3=&nation4=&nation5=&nation6=

ooc: I translated these numbers from NSTracker into standard NS dollars
Toori-defense budget- $139,414,770 NSSD
Eralineta-defense budet- $140,181,593

Not to mention he has also insulted Union of Sharona/Mini Miehm with a huge defense budget, esp. combined.

And me with my small defense budget BUT owning 3 protoss carriers, psi blades and, upon recognition many L2s, I-58s, light and armed unmanned planes, dirty bomb material, a bomb kit, a German Nuclear Physicist Not to mention, a white cat and Nepoleon-Era Battleship for class.

I think Eralineta is putting himself in huge danger, needless to say.

ooc: I translated these numbers from NSTracker into standard NS dollars
Toori-defense budget- $139,414,770 NSSD
Eralineta-defense budet- $140,181,593

Not to mention he has also insulted Union of Sharona/Mini Miehm with a huge defense budget, esp. combined.

And me with my small defense budget BUT owning 3 protoss carriers, psi blades and, upon recognition many L2s, I-58s, light and armed unmanned planes, dirty bomb material, a bomb kit, a German Nuclear Physicist Not to mention, a white cat and Nepoleon-Era Battleship for class.

I think Eralineta is putting himself in huge danger, needless to say.

OOC you mean USD
an i try to look up Union of Sharona/Mini Miehm and can't find them

I am not future tech, but clearly if I was even my tiny nation in FT would be a pillar of pride and intelligence, which would form under a very small, but extremely dangerous military similar to my current MT one which uses stealth units, lasers and multiple complex code locks on military hardware. My nation is almost PMT, but since everything is possible to be created or has been created I can use it as MT.

I'm well versed in warfare, tactics and technology. I assure you numbers play no role in my warfare. If you haven't read up on my nation yet. I have over 15,000,000 mobilized tanks and forces. Estimates on my standing army are over 35,000,000 if you are without IC knowledge of my nation. Though the REAL military you don't even see, IC or otherwise. I'd adapt this into FT as well.

As the funny (and true) inspirational poster notes a common FT flaw, I assure you that if I was FT your homeworld would be destroyed if you ever attacked me.

Also, don't start IC fights over OOC comments, this is about an FT weapon IDEA. A somewhat ineffective, but powerful weapon that does have AMAZING EMP and pin-pointed damage capability.

OOC you mean USD
an i try to look up Union of Sharona/Mini Miehm and can't find them

OOC: You have to write THE UNION OF SHARONA. As for Mini Miehm I did not have such problems

OOC Eralineta numbers do play a role in warfare

OOC: Also remember I only listed those you directly insulted, much of the international community did not like your blacklist thread.

Also, all I am saying if there is ever war and I happen to be in it, expect NO MERCY.

OOC: You have to write THE UNION OF SHARONA. As for Mini Miehm I did not have such problems

OOC i was just looking up Mini Miehm and i get this
ERROR! Error getting nation data for "mini_miehm_", or nation doesn't exist
i think its playing up as i get the same message for my nation now

OOC Eralineta numbers do play a role in warfare

Makes for very little in actuality.

See the stickied thread by Macabees: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=398617

MT wise I am sure I'd give any other MT nation a NASTY challenge and daring odds. A simple fly over shows thousands upon thousands of tanks, anti-air sites, bunkers, hangars, thousands of planes on huge airfields, sprawling areas of military bases, unique defenses and well-established communications. A closer look (at the LRLW for one) shows a perfect attack and defensive weapon with incredible range and precision. I'd like to see a carrier taskforce be deployed against my mere 20 Oceanus's. I assure you that if they even enter our waters that taskforce will be destroyed within seconds. Cut to shreds by the ships.

OOC: I doubt that no matter what you could ever hold up against the sheer number of that many nations at once. All I'm saying is there is currently a powder keg and if you try and light it up than there will be all kings of damage done to your nation.

Makes for very little in actuality.

See the stickied thread by Macabees: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=398617

MT wise I am sure I'd give any other MT nation a NASTY challenge and daring odds. A simple fly over shows thousands upon thousands of tanks, anti-air sites, bunkers, hangars, thousands of planes on huge airfields, sprawling areas of military bases, unique defenses and well-established communications. A closer look (at the LRLW for one) shows a perfect attack and defensive weapon with incredible range and precision. I'd like to see a carrier taskforce be deployed against my mere 20 Oceanus's. I assure you that if they even enter our waters that taskforce will be destroyed within seconds. Cut to shreds by the ships.
OOC but numbers are still there and i would love to see you face KC

OOC but numbers are still there and i would love to see you face KC

Whose KC?

Numbers are omnipresent when up against 4-5 nations.

FreeDemGov stop baiting. I am very confident I could give you a thrashing if you were MT. That's that.

Isa, while still there, superiority in technology and usage make the difference over vastly inferior units. With similar technology it comes more to tactics. See the current war in Iraq as an example (either side) to see who has better tactics and potentional. (In this case suicide bombers = ambushers who's own death can happen or be avoided, but after the inital attack in most cases where the bomb went off.) You'd be surprised how effective the environment is aiding the bombers and how effective the organization strikes on the Iraq government were in causing crippling losses early on.

Truely if it was all out war (total war), the results would be amazing if so much as a single ship went to a nation and laid siege.

Whose KC?

Numbers are omnipresent when up against 4-5 nations.

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/The_Kraven_Corporation
look up his fact book to see how Capitol Police are made
it not very nice what happens to those woman

OOC: With the exception of protoss tech I am MT. I would simply not use those in an MT war as stated previously. I suggest you read all I say before making such comments.

By the way, we have totally hijacked this thread and should stop this back and forth.

Then make a thread for war or be quiet.

Isa, while still there, superiority in technology and usage make the difference over vastly inferior units. With similar technology it comes more to tactics. See the current war in Iraq as an example (either side) to see who has better tactics and potentional. (In this case suicide bombers = ambushers who's own death can happen or be avoided, but after the inital attack in most cases where the bomb went off.) You'd be surprised how effective the environment is aiding the bombers and how effective the organization strikes on the Iraq government were in causing crippling losses early on.

Truely if it was all out war (total war), the results would be amazing if so much as a single ship went to a nation and laid siege.

OOC true

Then make a thread for war or be quiet.

I will when you do something I have only been warning and responding to your responses.

FreeDemGov stop baiting. I am very confident I could give you a thrashing if you were MT. That's that.

Isa, while still there, superiority in technology and usage make the difference over vastly inferior units. With similar technology it comes more to tactics. See the current war in Iraq as an example (either side) to see who has better tactics and potentional. (In this case suicide bombers = ambushers who's own death can happen or be avoided, but after the inital attack in most cases where the bomb went off.) You'd be surprised how effective the environment is aiding the bombers and how effective the organization strikes on the Iraq government were in causing crippling losses early on.

Truely if it was all out war (total war), the results would be amazing if so much as a single ship went to a nation and laid siege.

The truth is, there is no real way of knowing how beatable a nation is until they have been faced in battle. So why dont you stop pussying around, cause actions speek louder than words, if that is even possible with you, since your words are so loud.

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/The_Kraven_Corporation
look up his fact book to see how Capitol Police are made
it not very nice what happens to those woman

1) Kravens not FT

2) There's always a bigger fish.

2) There's always a bigger fish.Offers a human snackcrafice to Chron made up of noobs, corn beef, chaos sauce, and a number of symbols of order and light.

1) Kravens not FT

2) There's always a bigger fish.

he was talking about MT

lot

Oh, Sorry. I saw the thread title and automatically assumed that people would stay within the parameters.

Now I just feel silly. *eyeroll*

Oh, Sorry. I saw the thread title and automatically assumed that people would stay within the parameters.

Now I just feel silly. *eyeroll*
OOC
i think he's FT too but i don't got lost in trying to work them out

but in there MT wise KC would eat them alive which i may join KC side for the fun of it and to get more woman for my MT side

Kraven certainly is impressive in MT, and he was fun to RP with when he briefly did FT.

HEY!, TG yourself about this or something like that but stop killing threads with other arguments please.

Kraven certainly is impressive in MT, and he was fun to RP with when he briefly did FT.
OOC
last part is new to me
oh i notes that KC not around much lately

HEY!, TG yourself about this or something like that but stop killing threads with other arguments please.

Well you're being so polite. How can I refuse?

My view on Ft weaponry is that no weapon is inherently better than the other. I just stick to what I enjoy, what I enjoy using (mostly due to what they do) and go from there, enjoying myself. People who set out to try and boost everything with tech will be severely lacking in other areas.

And as Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam have proven,. superior technology and force of arms need not win wars.

I am not future tech, but clearly if I was even my tiny nation in FT would be a pillar of pride and intelligence, which would form under a very small, but extremely dangerous military similar to my current MT one which uses stealth units, lasers and multiple complex code locks on military hardware. My nation is almost PMT, but since everything is possible to be created or has been created I can use it as MT.

I'm well versed in warfare, tactics and technology. I assure you numbers play no role in my warfare. If you haven't read up on my nation yet. I have over 15,000,000 mobilized tanks and forces. Estimates on my standing army are over 35,000,000 if you are without IC knowledge of my nation. Though the REAL military you don't even see, IC or otherwise. I'd adapt this into FT as well.

As the funny (and true) inspirational poster notes a common FT flaw, I assure you that if I was FT your homeworld would be destroyed if you ever attacked me.

Also, don't start IC fights over OOC comments, this is about an FT weapon IDEA. A somewhat ineffective, but powerful weapon that does have AMAZING EMP and pin-pointed damage capability.

I'd like to make some notes concerning your military. Ones made to me 2 or more years ago, when Miehm did first walk the Forums.

At 75,000,000 people, your maximum sane peacetime military is something like 3.75 million men, or approximately 5%. You are claiming a military that is something like 2/3rds(5/7ths to be precise) of your population(and that's assuming no logistics, and that you have one man per tank/what have ye, and that your entire military is in the 2 points you mentioned). You have no economy, no one has repaired your tanks in several decades, and you're all armed with Springfield Muskets. As a comparison, I can put 2 men in the field for every one of yours, at a military of 2.5%, and equip them with the highest of high end FT hardware. If you want to have 50 million tanks and men, you'll have to pay the price, or get the size. Unless you speak of a larger as yet unnamed nation that you have in a back pocket somewhere.

Yeah, I used to do stuff like that. My old Bastard Tech Reference(assuming it still exists) is a generally fairly good outline of what not to do. That might serve you well in the future Eralineta.

Now that we have the mandatory dick measuring contest with the 4x larger nation out of the way...

@Chronos: False Datum. America has superior force of arms and technology. America lost to Vietnam. This does not inherently mean that force of arms and technology do not win wars. It fails to take into account RoE, or anything resembling public opinion. Bad Bad Warmaster, not knowing that your Chaos bred fanaticism protects you from the backlash that would ensue if RL America trashed Iraq like you trashed Charybdis.

As for the gun: It's a directed nuclear energy weapon. Its exact characteristics are of little import. The effect will be similar to that of a Yamato. In FT, nukes, unless extremely large, or extremely nasty in some other manner(ER warheads come to mind) are fairly small fry, so your bit about FT Wankmetals doesn't hold water. Yamatos are more dangerous solely from my precedent. As such, just use the existing Yamato framework. Why bother making a new gun, when you've already got one that does the same thing, better?

From Atomic Rocket: Space War: Weapons (http://projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3x.html)
Propulsion Systems
If your spacecraft's exhaust is pumping out a few terrawatts, it might occur to you that your enemy would be real unhappy if you hosed them with your tail flame.

In his Known Space novels, Larry Niven invented The Kzinti Lesson. It states "a reaction drive's efficiency as a weapon is in direct proportion to its efficiency as a drive." The warlike Kzinti invaded the solar system, figuring that humanity would be a pushover since the pacifist humans of the time had no weapons. Humans showed the Kzin the error of their ways by annihilating Kzinti warships with laser arrays used for solar sails, multi-million degree fusion exhausts, and photon drives that were basically titanic lasers. So keep in mind that the higher the exhaust velocities of the rocket engine, the more damage it will do to anything unfortunate enough to be in the path of the exhaust.

Having said that, realize that as a general rule propulsion exhaust is poorly collimated, which means after a very short range it will have expanded and dissipated into harmlessness.

This is a more general concern. As propulsion systems get more powerful, the more energy they contain, and the worse the damage if an accident occurs. How would you like to have the captain of the Exxon Valdez skippering a tramp freighter with an antimatter drive? That brilliant mushroom cloud you see marks the former location of Clinton-Sherman spaceport. The more devastation a propulsion system can wreck, the shorter the leash the captains will be on. If they are too powerful, there won't be any colorful tramp freighters or similar vessels. This is known as John's Law.

Sometimes it works the other way. If you are attacking an Orion drive spacecraft with nuclear warheads, they will just point their pusher plate at the missiles and laugh at you.

In The Outcasts of Heaven's Belt by Joan Vinge, warships attacking a visiting Bussard Ramjet starship get a rude surprise when the starship shows them its tail. The starship's fusion drive is quite deadly at close range. Things are more extreme in the anime Space Battleship Yamato (later watered down and made politically correct for viewers in the US under the name Star Blazers). The battleship's propulsion system is the incredibly powerful "wave-motion engine". But if attacked, the thrust is vectored out the nose of the ship to create the equally incredibly powerful "wave-motion cannon".
The Yamato Cannon is essentially a directed Orion engine. In reality it would be an extremely short-ranged weapon and fairly useless in space combat because more often than not you'll never get close enough to see your opponent with your naked eye.

As for bomb-pumped lasers:
A special type of laser is the bomb-pumped laser. This is generally found as a missile warhead. A "submunition" is a warhead that is a single-shot bomb-pumped gamma-ray laser. The original concept was developed by Edward Teller under the name "Excalibur." Teller and Excalibur were later discredited, but the basic idea wasn't.

Here's the problem: the lasing medium in a laser has to be "pumped" or flooded with the same frequency that the laser emits. This isn't a problem with infrared or visible light, but sadly there are not many good sources of x-rays and gamma-rays. About the only good source is a detonating nuclear device, which has the distressing side-effect of vaporizing the laser. So the idea is to make a laser that can frantically manufacture one good x-ray zap in the few microseconds before it is destroyed by the bomb blast. This is the reason it is "one-shot."

The Excalibur units had about one hundred x-ray laser rods mounted on a nuclear device. When the hordes of evil Soviet nuclear missiles climbed into view, all one hundred lasers would lock on to different targets, then the bomb was triggered. John Schilling said that due to inefficiency each laser would emit a pulse of only 5e6 Joules, but they'd have a range of up to one hundred kilometers.

A one megaton nuclear device releases about four billion megajoules, but only a few percent of this will end up in the x-ray laser beams, due to the inherent inefficiency. Call it a total of about 100 million megajoules of x-ray laser.

Bomb-pumped lasers do not use lenses or mirrors (because there ain't no such thing as an x-ray mirror). To calculate their beam divergence angle, use the following:

θ = 2 * (w / l)

where:
θ = beam divergence angle (radians)
w = width of lasing rod (meters)
l = length of lasing rod (meters)

A practical maximum length of a single laser rod is no more than five meters. Making the rod thinner decreases the divergence angle, but this is limited by diffraction, just like in more conventional lasers. Make the rod too narrow and diffraction actually makes the divergence angle larger. The width limit is:

(1.22*L) / w = w / l

where:
L = wavelength of laser beam (meters)
w = width of lasing rod (meters)
l = length of lasing rod (meters)

For an x-ray laser rod of one nanometer wavelength and rod length of five meters, the optimum rod width is 0.06 millimeters. The beam divergence angle will be 20 microradians.

This relatively huge divergence further degrades the laser performance. Our 100 million megajoules are now diluted into a 20 microradian cone. On a target at ten megameters, it would deposit about 300 kJ/cm2 over a spot 200 meters wide.

Note the consequence of the absence of x-ray mirrors: each laser rod will fire a laser beam out both ends of the rod. The majority of the beam will exit from the end of the rod farther from the nuclear blast, however (i.e., most of the beam will travel in the same direction as the x-rays from the blast). If the rod is perpendicular to the blast, equal beams will emerge from both ends.

A bigger draw-back is the fact that while a laser cannon requires a targeting system, Excalibur requires a targeting system for every single laser rod. Such systems are not cheap.

A more minor problem is "bomb-jiggle." Many types of fission devices use conventional explosives to squeeze the core into a critical mass. While the nuclear blast is far too swift to jog the laser rods off their targets, the conventional explosives are not. They might cause the rods to miss-aim, so when the nuclear blast triggers the x-rays, the beams are off-target. This might be avoided by using a laser-initiated fusion device.
So while a bomb can be used to make a mean laser, the laser doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of survivng for a second shot. Probably not a good idea to mount it on a ship.

What you could do is mount a set of bomb-pumped lasers on a missle, fly it to you're target and have it target other enemy craft before blowing. This would take out one ship while giving deadly leaks to its allies. In space, a leak is very dangerous because they don't stay small and crew have a tendancy to get squeezed out through holes too small to fit through intact.

Always research before making new weapons and always limit your technology so that it at least sounds believeable.

Or we could avoid the fairly hard SF of that site like the PLAGUE. Believable in NS FT is "It's not horrendously twinky", not "Hey, physics isn't screaming in agony". Welcome to our world. Watch out for the puddles of organic material.

@Chronos: False Datum. America has superior force of arms and technology. America lost to Vietnam. This does not inherently mean that force of arms and technology do not win wars. It fails to take into account RoE, or anything resembling public opinion. Bad Bad Warmaster, not knowing that your Chaos bred fanaticism protects you from the backlash that would ensue if RL America trashed Iraq like you trashed Charybdis.

I didn't imply that all arms and force didn't win wars, just that both do not nessecarily always win wars.

I didn't imply that all arms and force didn't win wars, just that both do not nessecarily always win wars.
But they can. In fact, all you really need is the tech. A numerically inferior enemy on the move can wipe out the bulk of your military and population by using the bomb. All you need are enough of them and for them to be big enough. Fear and pride prevent it from being used today but if it were it could resolve nearly all major conflicts.

I concure to a very certain extent. One cannot win a war with technology alone. It is the will, drive, and motivation of the warriors that win them. For instance, the battle of Thermopolai (I hope I spelt that right). 300 spartans, and almost 1000 warriors from another greek city state stood up against over a million persians. They all died, however, they left the persian army hurt and bleeding badly. While it was licking its wounds, the other greek city states got enough balls to finish them off. The persians had some crude forms of gunpowder, and a few other advances on the greeks, also, I do believe they had war elephants, and what made the persians so strong was the fact that they had a fierce cavalry.

I'd like to make some notes concerning your military. Ones made to me 2 or more years ago, when Miehm did first walk the Forums.

At 75,000,000 people, your maximum sane peacetime military is something like 3.75 million men, or approximately 5%. You are claiming a military that is something like 2/3rds(5/7ths to be precise) of your population(and that's assuming no logistics, and that you have one man per tank/what have ye, and that your entire military is in the 2 points you mentioned). You have no economy, no one has repaired your tanks in several decades, and you're all armed with Springfield Muskets. As a comparison, I can put 2 men in the field for every one of yours, at a military of 2.5%, and equip them with the highest of high end FT hardware. If you want to have 50 million tanks and men, you'll have to pay the price, or get the size. Unless you speak of a larger as yet unnamed nation that you have in a back pocket somewhere.

Yeah, I used to do stuff like that. My old Bastard Tech Reference(assuming it still exists) is a generally fairly good outline of what not to do. That might serve you well in the future Eralineta.

Now that we have the mandatory dick measuring contest with the 4x larger nation out of the way...

@Chronos: False Datum. America has superior force of arms and technology. America lost to Vietnam. This does not inherently mean that force of arms and technology do not win wars. It fails to take into account RoE, or anything resembling public opinion. Bad Bad Warmaster, not knowing that your Chaos bred fanaticism protects you from the backlash that would ensue if RL America trashed Iraq like you trashed Charybdis.

As for the gun: It's a directed nuclear energy weapon. Its exact characteristics are of little import. The effect will be similar to that of a Yamato. In FT, nukes, unless extremely large, or extremely nasty in some other manner(ER warheads come to mind) are fairly small fry, so your bit about FT Wankmetals doesn't hold water. Yamatos are more dangerous solely from my precedent. As such, just use the existing Yamato framework. Why bother making a new gun, when you've already got one that does the same thing, better?


FT is not allowed in most RP fights because it is more then one-sided. As my military stands you'll have a damn-near impossible chance of even hitting one REAL tank. We believe very highly in decoys and you cannot tell me what I have (when I clearly have posted otherwise to). The FIAT is one of the best I have, but a SS would give even your MT forces a BIG issue. My real military is under the guise of advanced camoflage and are invisible to the naked eye, but more importantly they do not appear on radar well. My tanks are painted with a RAM outer coating to reduce their radar signature by 75%, appearing as cars or trucks. My decoys do NOT have RAM and have a metal lining to produce a dupped real signature. Aside from being wonderful for target practice, they are excellent decoys which will make your job or hitting them that much harder. Aerial bombardment will stand a 1 in 75 chance of hitting a real tank. Of course....advanced radar systems and a full network can pick up those pesky B-2s within 80 km from my coastal defenses. However since Eralineta relies HEAVILY on the sea our best forces are naval based. Oceanus ships are among my most powerful weapons and defenses as they are hooked into a my Hamark's 3000 mi naval radar system. Eralineta is at war with itself, ARM, MAM, and MOM do not trust each other. This state allows Eralineta to maintain a constant military rate of 3.5% with amazing information powers.

Though...my friend will succeed me I fear, so I'm going to get started early on my defenses. Anyone who dares attack Eralineta will see what I prepared for him already. Numbers matter little when you stare down the 250 mi naval 'guns' that patrol Eralineta's waters. Oh...and yes, they can destroy entire carrier taskforces in about a minute. (My range is only limited by communication power, in reality I can extend my shooting range to over 1500 mi, but accuracy is not ensured).

Also... 300 was a big lie. LOL.

FT is not allowed in most RP fights because it is more then one-sided. As my military stands you'll have a damn-near impossible chance of even hitting one REAL tank. We believe very highly in decoys and you cannot tell me what I have (when I clearly have posted otherwise to). The FIAT is one of the best I have, but a SS would give even your MT forces a BIG issue. My real military is under the guise of advanced camoflage and are invisible to the naked eye, but more importantly they do not appear on radar well. My tanks are painted with a RAM outer coating to reduce their radar signature by 75%, appearing as cars or trucks. My decoys do NOT have RAM and have a metal lining to produce a dupped real signature. Aside from being wonderful for target practice, they are excellent decoys which will make your job or hitting them that much harder. Aerial bombardment will stand a 1 in 75 chance of hitting a real tank. Of course....advanced radar systems and a full network can pick up those pesky B-2s within 80 km from my coastal defenses. However since Eralineta relies HEAVILY on the sea our best forces are naval based. Oceanus ships are among my most powerful weaponsing relics from and defenses as they are hooked into a my Hamark's 3000 mi naval radar system. Eralineta is at war with itself, ARM, MAM, and MOM do not trust each other. This state allows Eralineta to maintain a constant military rate of 3.5% with amazing information powers.

Though...my friend will succeed me I fear, so I'm going to get started early on my defenses. Anyone who dares attack Eralineta will see what I prepared for him already. Numbers matter little when you stare down the 250 mi naval 'guns' that patrol Eralineta's waters. Oh...and yes, they can destroy entire carrier taskforces in about a minute. (My range is only limited by communication power, in reality I can extend my shooting range to over 1500 mi, but accuracy is not ensured).

Also... 300 was a big lie. LOL.

As a note, before it all gets started... 1 in 75 ain't bad odds when I'm tossing tactical KEWs from orbit. Or long ranged ER weaponry. Or nice and clean FAEs.

You have 82 million people. You are claiming a number of troops equal to something like 82 million+

The Empire of Eralineta is a very large, economically powerful nation, renowned for its compulsory military service. Its hard-nosed, hard-working, cynical population of 82 million are rabid consumers, partly through choice and partly because the government tells them to and dissenters tend to vanish from their homes at night.

See? 82 million citizens. Unless you can somehow make your entire nation, and then some, a military(generally considered egregious wank, unless you're an FT bioswarm, and even then...) At 3.5% military you have 2.87 million people in your military. That equates to 1/5 of your ARMOR force, assuming that each tank has one operator, and that operator handles all maintenance on his track. You are VERY small fry. I don't need to worry about you, because even if I fielded Abrams and Iowas, I'd be able to field enough to simply swamp you, and have armies left over.

Just for giggles, lets compare.

Mini Miehm: 4.207 Billion(military 147,245,000)
Eralineta: 82 million(military 2.87 million)
Ratio(MM to Eralineta): 51:1
Ratio(Military): Still 51:1
Defense Budget Ratio(in millions): 251:1

There are really 3 options. You may have ubertech, and a small military, middling tech and a good sized military, or you can have 50 million unarmed and half naked savages. At your size I think I claimed having a slightly smaller(though still excessive) number of troops, and I had this explained to me. Now I have more troops than I had claimed so long ago, because I was patient(kinda) and waited for my nation to grow. As it grew, my military did likewise.

The Republic of The Union of Sharona

Defense: T$163.62 billion 23%

Source: NSTracker

You most certainly do not have that capability, as you implied.

But I doooo!:D

Copenhaghenkoffenlaugh

Exchange Rate: C$1 = NS$1.7415

Defense: C$35,090,290,740,094.75 23%

The Manticoran Alliance of Mini Miehm(my main nation)

Last known defense budget: E$25,594,535,366,400.01

Source: NSTracker

I have that capability and more.

Mini Miehm

Exchange Rate: E$1.0755 = $1

Defense: E$25,862,105,068,800.01 44%

There you go!:D

Mini Miehm

Exchange Rate: E$1.0755 = $1

Defense: E$25,862,105,068,800.01 44%

There you go!:D

I actually prefer Thirdgeek, but the comparison on NSTracker is useful.

That makes my C$3,130,105,561.86 @ C$1.7960 = $1 (~$1,742,820,468.74) for a combined Military and Police force look embarrassing. (I also am MT. I find FT interesting, but I have more fun with realistic MT numbers) (500,000 men and 80 fighters to both police and defend my nation. It is a good excuse to not have a defense budget though...)

(Source: NSTracker)

I may have an argument for the armor plasma thing, lets say the mineral resistant to energy weapons is limited in supply and is strictly for weapon use only and not for armor unless your nation is UBER UBER rich. You'd build spacerafts to defend yourself regardless of armor to make sure no foreigners get any ideas however if a rich nation that can build special ships with lazer resistant armor you'd better have kinetic bombs.

Here are a few different thoughts. There are a variety of nuclear weapons. A neutron bomb for example might make an interesting bomb pumped beam weapon. Fry everyone inside a ship. There is also the problem that most spaceships have to have fairly good radiation shielding because of cosmic background radiation as well as solar storms which can irradiate people badly.

Here are a few different thoughts. There are a variety of nuclear weapons. A neutron bomb for example might make an interesting bomb pumped beam weapon. Fry everyone inside a ship. There is also the problem that most spaceships have to have fairly good radiation shielding because of cosmic background radiation as well as solar storms which can irradiate people badly.

Solar storm = your dead.
Background radiation = no problem.
Neutron beam is a laughable prospect as it could be shielded against fairly easily.

You have to consider this:

Big, huge, glowing, cool looking weapons with big names, isn't exactly the best way to do things. They take up enourmous amounts of time, energy, resources, and money.

For an all around good attack vessel, you need three things: 1-good armor, 2- a primary weapons system, and 3- a secondary weapons system.


Now, lets concentrate on the weapons systems. Lets say your going up against: (just as an example, I know its stupid, but just bare with me) a giant alian nut. Now lets say this nut is friggin huge, its about twice your height. And your job is to destroy it completely. All you have is a sniper riffle, and a flame thrower. You have to use one weapon at a time. Which one do you use first, the sniper riffle, or the flame thrower?:sniper: :gundge:

You have to consider this:

Big, huge, glowing, cool looking weapons with big names, isn't exactly the best way to do things. They take up enourmous amounts of time, energy, resources, and money.

For an all around good attack vessel, you need three things: 1-good armor, 2- a primary weapons system, and 3- a secondary weapons system.


Now, lets concentrate on the weapons systems. Lets say your going up against: (just as an example, I know its stupid, but just bare with me) a giant alian nut. Now lets say this nut is friggin huge, its about twice your height. And your job is to destroy it completely. All you have is a sniper riffle, and a flame thrower. You have to use one weapon at a time. Which one do you use first, the sniper riffle, or the flame thrower?:sniper: :gundge:

That's a good question, because you have to take into account on what kind of armour the nut is wearing, and where the armour is located.

Also, you have to consider what the resilience of the armour is, and if he has personal shields to defend him as well as his armour.

In this kind of respect, the fates are leaving the decision up in the air. However, if it was me, I'd go for the direct, concentrated damage of the sniper rifle over the area-of-effect damage of the flamer simply because I believe that concentrated damage on one area has a longer-lasting impact to the enemy than your general dispersed weapons fire, which does superficial damage in comparison.

Put fuel tank at nut along with your ammo, fire into the fuel tank, watch it and your ammo explode and do maximum damage.

As my military stands you'll have a damn-near impossible chance of even hitting one REAL tank.

So, you're assuming the guys you're fighting are too stupid to notice where the shots are coming from?

We believe very highly in decoys

Decoys are nice and all, but they typically can't fight too well.

My real military is under the guise of advanced camoflage and are invisible to the naked eye,

Optical camoflage, I take it? How do you deal with IR sights? Because any PMT military worth its salt is going to be packing those commonly.

but more importantly they do not appear on radar well. My tanks are painted with a RAM outer coating to reduce their radar signature by 75%, appearing as cars or trucks.

You do realize that RAM is both highly expensive (though probably not so much in FT) and considerably more vulnerable to weapons fire than a nice sheath of DU armor, right? I can understand that you go for total stealth and information superiority, but what happens if someone comes at you with a means of defeating your stealth? Or what if they're willing to simply grind you to dust underneath huge conventional armies?

Eralineta is at war with itself, ARM, MAM, and MOM do not trust each other. This state allows Eralineta to maintain a constant military rate of 3.5% with amazing information powers.

Hold, if your nation is at actual war with itself, how do you have a centralized military at all? How hasn't everything broken apart along factional lines and torn itself apart yet? I mean, it just seems like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. You rely upon factional rivalries to explain why your military is more powerful than some, but then you have huge centralized radar and intelligence networks when by all rights these guys, from the sound of it, shouldn't be sharing anything unless absolutely necessary.

*sigh*

First
1. Law of ratios. 2. My real tanks aren't out in the open.

Second
Decoys are my business, I never said they could fight or even move.

Third.

The light bends around it, so its also has a very poor IR signature. Though all my tanks do to begin with. The main reason being the coating on them, first a highly transmissive plastic liner of 95% transmissive on all long pass bands, and is low transmissive on short-band. (Less then 5%) This is complimented by a neutral density filter. It gives a poor IR signature, but this is standard. The real ability is in the passing of light which actually stops IR from working.

1090 and 1570? LOL. High transmission (95%) order 1.5n asborbing filter under a 1.8n neutral density filter. The IR gets passed (~5% return), but it undergoes a half-wavelength change and slows down. Then it hits the 1.8n neutral density filter that slows it or is blocked. Transmission is at a 1/2 order off and is slowed, and is transmitted out at a different wavelength. (somewhere in the 1300's I think)

So they have a poor IR signature

That's a good question, because you have to take into account on what kind of armour the nut is wearing, and where the armour is located.

Also, you have to consider what the resilience of the armour is, and if he has personal shields to defend him as well as his armour.

In this kind of respect, the fates are leaving the decision up in the air. However, if it was me, I'd go for the direct, concentrated damage of the sniper rifle over the area-of-effect damage of the flamer simply because I believe that concentrated damage on one area has a longer-lasting impact to the enemy than your general dispersed weapons fire, which does superficial damage in comparison.


Very good choice. You have assesed the strength of the nuts armor (its shell). The shell is quite hard and strong, but very brittle. If you were to use the flamethrower on the giant nut, it would do almost nothing. However, if you were to crack the nut open with the sniper riffle, the damage would be irrecoverable of the giant nut. Once it was cracked open into multiple pieces, and the softer, more flamable inards were revieled, THEN you would use the flame thrower.



Now, heres the next consideration. Lets say you have the same weapons, but instead, your going up against a giant play-dough monster made entirely of clay. Then what would you do?

You have to consider this:

Big, huge, glowing, cool looking weapons with big names, isn't exactly the best way to do things. They take up enourmous amounts of time, energy, resources, and money.

For an all around good attack vessel, you need three things: 1-good armor, 2- a primary weapons system, and 3- a secondary weapons system.


Now, lets concentrate on the weapons systems. Lets say your going up against: (just as an example, I know its stupid, but just bare with me) a giant alian nut. Now lets say this nut is friggin huge, its about twice your height. And your job is to destroy it completely. All you have is a sniper riffle, and a flame thrower. You have to use one weapon at a time. Which one do you use first, the sniper riffle, or the flame thrower?:sniper: :gundge:

2 strategies.
1) If it is a literal nut, flamethrower all the way, 'cause nuts a flammable
2) Else, flamethrower to soften the external material, then shoot it where you flamed it.

2. My real tanks aren't out in the open.

They have to be somewhere where they can actually strike the enemy, though. Out in the open is where that typically is, unless they're already close to your cities or near a convenient forest/chunk of cover.

Decoys are my business, I never said they could fight or even move.

...I see. Don't you think you're overestimating the effectiveness of decoys just a bit then?

So they have a poor IR signature

Very well.

So how do you justify having both a nation 'at war with itself' in your own words, and huge a huge intelligence apparatus? Because you didn't actually answer that.

Apparently you never read. Its like a cold war, its not actual combat, that'd be a civil war. The companies are fighting between each other for support of Emperor Black.

Apparently you never read.

Never read what? Your posts? I read them quite well, thank you for asking.

Its like a cold war, its not actual combat, that'd be a civil war.

Even in a cold war situation, you aren't going to have these factions sharing vital intelligence data with each other unless under duress. Hell, look at the rivalry between the FBI and CIA in the US today. Now make it worse. Especially since you literally said: "Eralineta is at war with itself." That implies a good degree of hostility.

This is why people that fancy themselves engineers should be totally forbidden from having any opinion in military matters, unless they happen to be a Combat Engineer, which is another story entirely. This is like talking to Vault 10, only worse. At least he has an excuse.

I get the feeling Eralineta fancies himself(or is) an engineer.

The light bends around it, so its also has a very poor IR signature.*BEEP* wrong. The IR comes from you, so regardless of how much you bend electromagnetic radiation that's coming towards you, the radiation you yourself, well... radiate is kinda unaffected. Even if it bends as well - it'll still get out and betray your position.

Of course, the much bigger problem with bending light is, well...

You're blind. 'Seeing' involves photons reflected/ scattered by the matter all around, well... Hitting your eyes (Or a camera), to simplify it. When you bend light around your tank, this doesn't happen, and you see nothing at all. As a rule of thumb - 'Optic Stealth' usually means a) Disguising yourself as a shrubbery (Probably doesn't work so well in SciFi settings) or b) Absorbing light (Which is dangerous in settings high on lasers and their derivates). c) Being transparents and d) Bending light are just daft.

Well. It depends on how the light is bent. Having the surface deflect some of the light at a nice little angle ought to reduce forward visibility a 'lil. But judging by your description, this isn't what you're doing.

*Flees thread*

Do the words "19 trillion dollar defense budget" have any meaning to you? It's a big bomb pumped laser. With maybe some major secondary effects.

19 Trillion? That's...that's all?

I like how everyone is dick fencing with budgets and yet here I spend more than everyone who's posted in this thread combined, not counting Auman and Der Angst.