NationStates Jolt Archive

(OOC: Note that prices are pretty much pulled out of my ass. Unless you happen to have a list of the prices of Chinese goods compared to the value of silver and so forth.
Assume assume 1 tael is equivalent to 1.5oz of silver.)

As Declared by His Imperial Majesty, the Jingtai Emperor, Son of Heaven and Light of Civilization,

A market for the buying and selling of goods on a worldwide basis will be established, open to all who wish to purchase from it. In order to facilitate this, China will establish the Imperial Catalouge, a listing of all goods for sale from China and their prices, as well as an up to date table of taxes and tarrifs, trade restrictions and the names of those merchants banned from the Ming Empire.
This catalouge will be dispatched to the leaders of those nations already trading with China, and to any important businessmen therein. Any who do not receive a catalouge may request one.

Xiao Qin, Minister of Trade
(Imperial Seal)

The Imperial Catalouge
Trade in China

Price of Silver
The price of silver is currently $15.25 per Tael in the Ming Empire.

Conversion Table
Tael = 1.5 ounces of Silver
Wén = ~1 USD
Li = 1/100 Wen

Chi = 1.1 feet
Bu = 2 yards
Fēn = ~80 sq. yards

Jin = 1.1lbs
Dan = 110lbs

Taxes and Tarrifs
The current tax rate on all purchases is:
%5

The current tariff on all imported European goods is:
%12

Exceptions:
(No current exceptions)

The current interest rate on all Imperial loans is:
%6

Prices of Export Goods

Foodstuffs:
Rice: 10 li per dan

Wheat: 1 Wen per dan

Beef: 1 tael per 10 jin

Resources
Iron: 10 wen per dan

Copper: 50 li per dan

Coal: 8 li per 10 dan

Oil: 1/2 tael per barrel (5 dan barrels = 115 gallons each)

Luxury Items:
Silk: 5 taels per roll (10 chi in length)

Porceline goods: 15 taels per pot/sculpture

Wooden Furniture: 5 taels per set

Chinese decorative scrolls: 3 taels per scroll

Chinese decorative walls: 5 taels per panel (painted) 1 tael per panel (unpainted)

Chinese wallpaper (handpainted): 12 taels per 4 bu

Chinese yacths (30 bu): 40,000 taels

Chinese yachts (60 bu): 100,000 taels

Chinese yachts (120 bu): 500,000 taels

Chinese Tea: 10 wen per barrel for 'regular' tea
5-50 tael per barrel, higher grades.

Drugs
Assorted Aphrodesiacs: 4 taels per bottle (100 doses)

Cocaine: 6 taels per 20 jin

General Good Health: 3 taels per bottle (100 doses)

Various Immortality Drugs: 15 taels per bottle (100 doses)

Opium: 2 taels per dan and an oath not to sell the stuff in China

Heroin: 5 taels per dan, likewise the oath

Other
Glassware: 1/2 tael per item

Fine hunting rifles: 8 taels per item

Horses: 12 taels (Chinese) 25 taels (Mongolian)

Korean bows: 8 taels per bow

Land
All prices are per fēn

Zhanjiang: 7 taels

Hong Kong: 12 taels

Guangzhou: 10 taels

Xiamen: 8 taels

Fuzhou: 14 taels

Hangzou: 4 taels

Shanghai: 22 taels

Qingdao: 9 taels

Yantai: 5 taels

Tianjin: 52 taels

Dalian: 3 taels

NOTES:
Purchased land is for commercial/industrial use ONLY. No European nation may place military forces within China, nor construct bases, fortifications, naval bases, or otherwise, unless expressly permitted by the Emperor.

((Will be expanded, contracted, modified, etc. throughout the RP.))

((ooc: what's that in gold? *grins*))

(OOC:
Gold was historically set at the equivalent of 406 USD in the US, but since the gold price there was locked...
I'll personally give $200 per ounce of gold, thats 13 1/3 taels per ounce of gold, which, beleive it or not, is not a good price :P)

"What about trade with the Ming, Minister?"

"Long-distance. Precarious, passing through so many controlled straights. And not worth it - the Imperial Government ensures nothing is offered at a good price."

"So we can't trade with them?"

"Of course you CAN trade with them, the government won't stop you. We wouldn't advise it though, your profits probably won't cover your insurance premium."

(OOC:
No love for the cheap coal and iron? You make me sad.)

(OOC:
No love for the cheap coal and iron? You make me sad.)

OOC: No love for getting basic resources from the wrong end of Asia...

OOC: No love for getting basic resources from the wrong end of Asia...

(OOC:
You can ALWAYS use more coal >_>)

The Irish Republic had a very solid silver mining industry, among many materials to offer. In turn we would like to acquire the rights to trade with your nation for coal and oil.

The Ming government would be pleased to supply you with oil and coal. How much would you like? We would prefer to make yearly shipments as a matter of convinience.

OOC I my have already posted this in another thread due to poor internet speed, but I'll just make sure.

Your Price on Coal is a little high. According to the following long winded sight coal in 1860 was selling for $5.50 a ton http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/adams.industry.coal.us . I'm charging ten dollars to the ton elsewhere. Yours if I understand the transitions right is somewhere in the area of 290$ to the ton. I'm not sure if you're factoring China's industrial failings or not but either way it seems a little extreme.

As for oil I haven't the faintest Idea but also assume it's rather high.

To justify my claim:

1) Most of my oil and coal will be coming from Walden, though it is good to have more then one source.

2) What i do get from China, the majority will be going to the Philippines.

Bump, slight updates, fixed some prices.

very interested in trade,

if I can pull off a monopoly on trade from you in europe, I'll be willing to give VERY good concessions (plus it is one of the closest points to you by sea.. and close by land.

(anatolia and crete)

It is the policy of the Imperial Government that the only monopoly on Chinese trade is held by the Emperor himself. We just reject your offer.
However, in the matter of standard trade we are more than willing to come to terms. The Emperor has plans to expand the navy once certain conditions are met, and any ships you can provide would be welcomed. In exchange for such tributes the Emperor could be persueded to reduce the trade tarriff between our nations or, perhaps, eliminate it altogether.

Regular trade and tarrifs and levies can be conducted as you wish in regard to trade. We were just attempting to make trade more efficient, and reduce taxation when your goods travel through Europe. I think that limiting your trade would have seen many benifits, in regard to the actual cost of shipping.


We are willing to take on orders for building of ships as ports and builders are available, just send your requests as they exist.

(paraphrase of the Letter from the joint council of A&C)

How is this we can build ships for you

How much rice, Wheat

Are your Chinese yacths seaworthy if they are we will fill them with rice and wheat as much as they can hold.

What exactly is a chinese horse? We are familiar with the mongolian horses
Can you give more details about the korean bows and hunting rifles.


How many horses can you offer.

The tresuries can pay on delivery. Once we know how much you can supply, we can get a better idea of how much we can take, but we will buy foodstuffs from you. Likewise the number of horses you can supply will be matched wihtout our abilityto take them.

Payment on delivery is prefered.

We are willing to balance the cost of goods against the price of ship building.

Likewise we have many goods for export if anything is of intnerest.

For the horses we are interested in a male female ration of 1 male per 10 females.

While the Celestial Emperor is pleased by your concern for the Imperial economy, he must, again, decline your offer. We feel it is in our best interest to diversify our market as much as possible, particularly since the Empire does little shipping on its own. Indeed, the market is most willing to come to us.
In regards to ships, we wish to purchase completed vessels, the Empire has the capacity to build ships, however the Emperor wishes to immidiatly increase the ability of the Beijing Fleet, now, and not in five years.
On the matter of horses, what purpose do you plan to employ them in? This will obviously affect the breeding, and thus the price, of the animals in question. A parade horse costs more than a plow beast.

The council is a little concerned in your unwillingness to trade.

The horses would have a variety of uses. The Mares would largely be used for milk while the males as studs. Depending on what a chinese horse is... the mongolian horses may see more time in actual workroles, or even for calvary purposes, and any other uses that can be devised such as manure and urine.

Did you decline the offer for purchase of your chinese yatch's should they be sea worthy and foodstuffs of rice and wheat?

Lydia has modern shipbuilding facilities fully capable of building ships. We are willing to do a balance of cost that is trade ship for goods directly. Depending on what you are willing to trade I'm sure an arangement can be worked out.


As for the need in expediency we would be willing to part with a very limited number of ships now at a great premium and/or with concessions for a monopoly on trade in europe and we can 'run 24 hour work crews on any ships that you do decide on for expedited construction.

We are more than willing to trade, however, as has been repeatedly stated, the Son of Heaven does not wish to grant you or any nation a monopoly on Chinese trade. We see little reason to prevent others from trading with us when nations are so willing to come to US to trade. You are clearly under the impression that China must go elsewhere to find markets, however, this is not the case, nor has it been in the past thousand years.
I must urge you to consult with your historians on the subject of the Silk Road, the purposes of the previous European wars with the Celestial Empire, as emberassing and galling as they be for the Emperor, and the flow of trade to our nations ports.
Your dogged persistence on the subject of a trade monopoly with the Celestial Empire is, again, rejected. If you persist then we WILL cease to trade with your nation, however, if you are willing to cease this talk of monopoly, we will be pleased to engage in further discource with your nation on the subject of trade, the relaxation of tarrifs and the possibility of purchasing ships.
However, this will require that you read and understand the contents of our dispatches, so please attempt to come to terms with our terms before declaring your own terms.

Xiao Qin, Minister of Trade
(Imperial Seal)

OOC: just a note this is not a historic RP The silk road ends at my borders

Are you willing to trade. How much do you have to trade. Are your ships seaworthy? What are chinese horses.

If you'd like ships immediately you will pay a premium. If you'd like special arangements there will be a premium applied.

What type of ships would you like?

(OOC:
I know this isnt a historical RP. And at this point the Silk Road doesnt exist at all, its been replaced by sea routes. I'm assuming, however, that this Earth's history vaugly parralels real history in some fashion, EX: the use of the obvious trade routes through Central Asia to Europe, an opium-war like event (mentioned in my history) and so forth.)

We are willing to trade, as we have stated. In terms of amounts, that is up to you. We have plenty of the items listed in the Imperial Catalouge, which you should have recieved a copy of. If you wish for something which has not been named, you have only to ask and we will confirm whether or not we have supplies of it.
Our ships are indeed quite seaworthy, we purchased designs and ships from a number of European manufacturers. In addition to this our own native junks have proven themselves more than capable of traveling between China and America or Europe.
Chinese horses are four legged animals used for a variety of purposes, ranging from agriculture to military to transport. Typically they exhibit tails and a long mane. They also have hooves instead of toes. They have them in Europe, we hear.
We are interested in aquiring at least two dreadnaught type ships and a variety of destroyers and cruisers.

we can trade you a cruiser now, and construct 1 dreadnaught for you. The cost of the dreadnaught could vary.

If you have specifications of the size of cannons, armour etc.. then we can get a more accurate price. you are likely looking around 10m wen for the two ships.

We can provide the other ships as well but exact costs will depend on the ships, also we are only able to accomodate 1 dreadnaught to be built at a time currently from available construction docks and metalworks.

IF you are willing to form a partnership we will use the trade surplus on the ship to order a variety of items from your catalogs. Which will include a large number of junker / type ships as priced in your catalog. A large amount of foodstuffs as you have surplus and 5000 of your chinese horses.

We can keep the rest as a tab on trade until the surplus is balanced. We would also benifit from iron being supplied to assist in steelworks.

Note the dreadnaught may way as much as 13500 tons with a large component iron.

The cost of iron might run over 2.5 Million wen. alone not including working costs into steel etc.. just the iron content.

Again, we can build our own ships, we are looking to suppliment our navy immidiatly, therefore we are not interested in commisioning the construction of ships overseas. If you would provide specifications of the cruiser we would be pleased to look over them and decide whether or not to purchase it.

The price for an average steam-powered 150ft Junk (IE: the average size for long-range transport) is 80 taels. Yachts are far better appointed vessels designed for pleasure, rather than transport.
The total price for the horses is 60,000 taels plus 500 taels for shipping the animals, unless you wish to pick them up yourself.
If you will specify specific amounts for the foodstuffs, we will arrange to have them delivered. This may take several months, as the summer harvest has not yet reached its full growth, but once it has we will be able to have your requested food items on the dock immidiatly.

(OOC:
Updated. Please apply the above prices to the previous post in the case of ships >_>)

The Bautzonian Government seeing an oppertunity to better relations with the peoples of the rising Chinese Empire offers the following to said people and its government:
1). Foreign Investment Capital through both the Bautzonian government, and various private firms which seek an oppertunity to help expand the Chinese market.
2). The Bautzonian government offers to send representatives of its heavy industry (shipbuilding, construction, factories of various kinds) to help the Chinese develop their industrial base.
3). While Bautzen cannot offer its military surplus for the remainder of the current European conflict; upon the conclusion of the war Bautzen would be willing to hand over 80% of its military surplus including, but not limited to, small arms (including rifles, machine guns, pistols etc.), artillary (various calibres from field pieces to seige mortars), naval craft, and aeroplanes.
4). Any reasonable term or condition expressed by the Chinese government.

Bautzen sees promise in the future of China and hopes that China will allow us to assist its rise to be among the leaders of the worlds industrial powers.

The servants of the Jingtai Emperor would be pleased to deal with the government of Bautzen, and would be pleased to address the issues as they have been set forth:

1) Presently the Emperor is seeking to establish several companies independant of the Chinese government, at present these companies are purely the property of the government, but once they have established themselves, the Emperor will begin selling stock in them. The company presently closest to 'maturation' is the Hong Kong Steelworks, which is producing a surplus thanks to heavy assistance from European advisors, for which the Empire has paid a hefty price.
On this matter, contact us in one years time, at this point several companies will be selling stock.

2) This offer is much appreciated, and the Ming Empire will welcome these advisors with open arms. If dispatched to the Central Development Ministry in Beijing, they will be deployed to the locations where they are most needed. With the present westward expansion, China is looking to develope a strong mining industry in the newly aquired provinces. Any personell skilled in this craft would be most welcomed.

3) The Emperor wishes to personally express his gratitude for the generousity of the government of Bautzen, and has expressed a wish to meet personally with the head of state of Bautzen on his planned Grand Tour of Europe in order to confer upon him hereditary titles within the Chinese court and gifts, should he wish to accept them.

4) Once this European conflict is concluded, China would be interested in acquiring military advisors to assist in the training of its army, navy, and air forces. Especially in naval matters, which as of late have proven somewhat challenging for Chinese personelle. We would be willing to issue very genreous compensation for such services.

Bautzen appreciates the forewardness with which the Chinese have dealt with this, and our responses are thus:
1). We shall be sure to inform major investment firms/corporations interested in buying stock in these emerging corporations that they are encouraged to do so in one years time upon the opening of said corporations to outside investment.
2). All personell will be dispatched immediately including representatives of Bautzens weapons industry, and the emerging aeroplane and zeppelin industry.
3). The Emperor is to be told that both Bautzen's people, and King James would be more than happy to welcome him to our country. It is even thought that perhaps some day in the future King James will be able to visit China.
4). Bautzen would be happy to send over veterans to help train the Chinese military in modern tactics upon the conclusion of the current European conflict. We know that China is good for the money too so we have no concern regarding compensation, which can be discussed when the time arrives.

The Jingtai Emperor is most pleased that this matter has been settled in such an expedious manner. We will be pleased to meet with representatives of your nation once your European conflict is over to discuss these matters in detail.
In the mean time we wish you well in the present conflict, may your victories be many and your deaths few.