NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, I stumbled upon an argument in #draftroom and it consisted of people bashing the 2006 and 2007 'generation' of roleplayers who have played on International Incidents. Generally speaking, the majority of well known roleplayers who are known for their ability are '03-'05. I agree with this, but I don't. What I mean is that I concede that there are very few '06 and '07 nations that I really think are good roleplayers/writers. However, I also concede that in '03 many '03 roleplayers were horrible roleplayers. For me, myself, my 'turning point' was thanks to the World War/World at War off-site roleplaying community I hosted, and thanks to model nations that I haven't seen around (Agnosticium and TJHairball's now deceased roleplaying nation) for a while. The point I am trying to make is that with time a large portion of the players we now consider horrible roleplayers will probably get better - therefore, older players should not necessarily shun the younger generation because their writing abilities are not up to par. The fact of the matter is that they have not had the years of experience we've had, and at least in my case, I was just as bad as them in June 2003 (when I first registered The Macabees).

Nevertheless, I think that there should be a greater effort on part of the newer nations to improve themselves. Newer nations should be willing to take constructive criticism from older nations. Although this isn't a problem only with newer players (there are many older players who are quite naïve themselves), the newer players certainly make up the majority of the 'perpetrators'. I think the most important thing newer nations should be doing is putting effort into their nations and into their writing.

It's not as if there is a long list of threads (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8822114&postcount=3) that can help you with the various aspect of roleplaying. There is even a guide on writing (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9689501&postcount=7) by Iuthia.

In the end, roleplaying is supposed to be fun, so I suppose you roleplay the way that is the most appealing to you. However, I think that hte majority of players who roleplay with two paragraph posts have not attempted to write more. In fact, I think that once you begin to write well (and anybody can write well if they have patience enough to learn and to do it) you will enjoy it more than you think you will, and you will certainly enjoy it more than you enjoy roleplaying with two line responses. This was certainly the case with me, and I would bet money that most of our '03, '04 and '05 nations have gone through the same revelations.

This thread is nothing more than a plea to newer players to try to make this forum a better place. ;)

/me applauds.

Hear, hear!

Bravo, even though I can't RP.

[[Speaking OOC: Even though I'm one of the newer roleplayers (from the 2006-2007 group referenced in the original post), I wholeheartedly agree. The threads of roleplay advice are there for a reason, but sometimes people just don't seem to get it. I try to stick as close to the information - particularly the advice concerning military activities - as it's really good and definitely worth the read.]]

I concur, though I wish to know what people think of me?

Plus it'll help with your English mark. ;)

I concur, though I wish to know what people think of me?

You mobilized a million men using one sentence posts to attack a 5 million nation.

I don't need to say anything else.

You mobilized a million men using one sentence posts to attack a 5 million nation.

I don't need to say anything else.

LOL

But very true, Mac. Very true.

Lmao, Pwnt :p.

And I agree, us 06-07'ers could get much better if we tried. Of course, I am basically repeating what everyone else said, but there isn't really anything else to be said. I don't know if anyone could come up with a reasonable debate against this, lol.

When I first got here I was a horrible, horrible RPer. I didn't understand the system, I was used to doing characters not entire countries. But I grew into it (And did Advanced English :P).

I think we ought to give people time to improve, but some of them just don't try. They want free passes to the big leagues. They bring in god-like beings to the material plane, they claim to have ungodly amounts of power. It's annoying, not because its unbeatable (Because theres always a bigger wanker and/or irritable straight-edged player) but because they don't earn what they want.

Respect and power come with skill and ability. If a person is a terrible writer AND wants to play with the big boys, with weapons and technology that have forced him up there...It's not on.

We as the elders of the community, should therefore, try and nurture the new generation, and gradually let them progress.

I concur, though I wish to know what people think of me?

Take this as constructive criticism, and I don't mean to put you down. From what I've seen, skimming through a few of posts, you have room for improvement. For example, check out the difference between your (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12400066&postcount=1) post, and this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11678018&postcount=294) or these posts (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=521883). I think what would improve your roleplays would be patience. You need to have the patience to write long winded posts, and you need to consider each post like a chapter in a book.

Take this as constructive criticism, and I don't mean to put you down. From what I've seen, skimming through a few of posts, you have room for improvement. For example, check out the difference between your (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12400066&postcount=1) post, and this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11678018&postcount=294) or these posts (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=521883). I think what would improve your roleplays would be patience. You need to have the patience to write long winded posts, and you need to consider each post like a chapter in a book.I understand what you are saying as my posts can easily be more detailed and more story like, which would help to make my posts more fun to read, but yet at the same time they are fairly good. Yet, no of the finest caliber which it could well be by now.

Is that about right?

I understand what you are saying as my posts can easily be more detailed and more story like, which would help to make my posts more fun to read, but yet at the same time they are fairly good. Yet, no of the finest caliber which it could well be by now.

Is that about right?

Oh definetly.

Yes. ;)

Yes. ;)Good then and thanks for the advance.

Though might I ask this of your wisdom, is it alright to put one really long across multiple posts in order to allow me to work on it on seperate days?

Good then and thanks for the advance.

Though might I ask this of your wisdom, is it alright to put one really long across multiple posts in order to allow me to work on it on seperate days?

It is. But less impressive. Instead work on it over time in a word document till its perfect

Give us time and we will improve. Take mefor example, look at my "RPing" when I joined (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=474819), to what I am doing now (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=488454). (This was a while ago and I ahve Improved since.)

It is. But less impressive. Instead work on it over time in a word document till its perfectIf you want one I can give you a link to my paper about the fall of the Soviet Union.:D

If you want one I can give you a link to my paper about the fall of the Soviet Union.:D

....I didn't ask to see a word document. I said you ought to work on your thing in a word document. I'd prefer to see better fiction from you. :P

I will admit that I sometimes do not make a decent sized post. For me though, it is more because I want the story to progress faster, allowing more combat. I noticed in threads involving the veterans, it can take quite awhile to get to the meat of the story, the combat, whereas if you use shorter posts you can get right into the combat. However, I will take this advice and from now on try and write longer, more detailed, and hopefully more interesting posts. :)

I'd just like to add.

This will help, A LOT (http://dictionary.reference.com/)

Oh, and use this for writing when you want something like, 'Troop movement was fast, but the military wanted it to be faster', and you can't just think of a word better than faster. Only problem here is that you have to use the root word. So instead of 'faster' you have to type 'fast', just as an example, of course. (http://thesaurus.reference.com/)

This is at Mac's earlier post. It seems you people post like male and female rabbits... You get the picture.

--------------------------

Admittedly, though, there are times when a long-winded post is just completely unfeasable, for example dialogue between characters from difference RPers. Or when there's very little "clay" or structure in the RP to play with, and when you begin to just rattle off random actions as filler. Personally, although okay sometimes, always making your posts long-winded when it just isn't really possible can get a little too repetitive.

I suggest the introduction of more characters in the plotline, dialouge between them, and other things. Develop their personalities, and make them human. (or whatever they are....) Characters can make plotlines infinitely more interesting. Instead of saying:

Thus, 50,000 troops have begun moving in to secure the area.

Say something like:

In his command tent, Colonel Clusterfuck stood with both hands clasped behind his back in front of the elegantly laid-out sand table, studying the positions on the map carefully. With a keen eye, he noticed a weakness in the enemy perimeter, and immediately a plan began compiling in his noggin.

"Lieutenant.", he said while motioning to his aide de camp. "How long do you think it would take to move the fourth and fifth divisions to this point?"
"Well, sir, we could have them there within two hours. Why do you ask?"
"Oh, no reason.", Clusterfuck said with a sly grin. "Ready my command APC. I'd prefer to coordinate with my commanders in person."

And then you'd just take it from there. Essentially, treat every RP as a character RP, just with your own characters interacting with each other to drive the plotline.

That was more or less aimed at everyone looking for improvement in their posts. Most people are off to good starts, they just need that extra push. :)

Not to toot my own horn, but here's some more examples (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=495854) of using characters. Note particularly this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11542635&postcount=33). I had very little to say other than "they got in the Hummer" but I was able to stretch it out to an entire comical relief-style of writing showing the personalities of the men of the squad.

Just remember, characters and imagery. You can't go wrong. :)

Lot of good advice, I'll be sure to read further into it some day. I have tried rping in the past, but pretty much every thread I started died. I must have screwed up somehow, but I hope I can overcome it one day when I have more time to rp again.

....I didn't ask to see a word document. I said you ought to work on your thing in a word document. I'd prefer to see better fiction from you. :PI do have good ideas, it is the ability to properly put them in writing.:(

Well said Mac. That couldn't be more true. When I first started RPing in 03 I was quite frankly S*%&house. If I ever look back at any of the first RP's I took part in I can't believe I actually wrote something so terrible (I mean it wasn't that bad, and they weren't just one paragraph or so but compared to what I write now and what other well known RPers are writing, it was a poor effort).

To add something though, my advice to people having difficulty writing what others will see as a decent post would deffinately be to find your favourite RPer and read some of their work, learn what you can from the post they make - it helps.

Lot of good advice, I'll be sure to read further into it some day. I have tried rping in the past, but pretty much every thread I started died. I must have screwed up somehow, but I hope I can overcome it one day when I have more time to rp again.

You just have to keep persisting when that happens. Of the RP's I have started more than not have ended up dying. When they don't though, it's very rewarding.

To tell you the truth, I don't think this is a good idea. I like the idea of helping some new players get along, but I don't like the idea of some guy who thinks that since he's been here for a couple years that he's a RPing master coming along and telling me what I can and can't post.

We should try to help people who are new at RPing get along, but let me have my own style. I don't feel like writing up a huge public announcement or a letter to all nations all the time. One of the things I liked about these forums was that anyone could RP without being criticized. I mean, look at Blackpanthers2's RP. It's poorly written and not very well thought out, but people are still having fun in it. Doing this will start a long line of grammar nazis, and divide the nations up into the groups who spell good, the groups who don't, and McPsychoville.

Like I said several times, maybe if a nation is having trouble getting started, we could come in and help him/her get started, give them a few spelling lessons, etc, but don't start a long wave of prejudice.

Just thought I'd help add a little more weight to Mac's original post.

It's absolutely true. I've said basically this exact same thing before, only never in a thread all its own, because what it boils down to is that, as far as I can tell, there are three main groups of RPers on NS. Most people fall into one of the three groups, and the three groups have predictable progression patterns over years.

NOTE: Contains generalizations. If you disagree with something, just consider yourself the exception.


The first group is what I'll call the elite group for now. These are the people - you've all probably seen a few - who are posting amazing posts from day one. Frequently this is because they are experienced writers who have just found the site, or have read a few exemplary threads beforehand trying get an idea of what RPing is like here. Frequently they are older and more mature from day one than the other two groups. Going along with this, many people from this group tend to post less and less frequently than those from other groups.
Standard Progression: These players start high and get higher. Their posts start out very high quality, drawing in other players with high quality posts. The downside is they don't really have anywhere to get better to. Sure, they advance in terms of NS, but not really in terms of RPing. A frequent bad habit of these players is to form a small clique of good RPers and never leave it, whether through making up a setting that only the nations in the clique have, or by simply closing every RP. By doing this, they essentially not only isolate themselves from the rest of the NS community, but they also don't let other, newer players benefit from their skill.
Rarity: Rare. Very rare.
Examples: You've all seen the nations that post a five page long introduction, complete with a unique idea for what their nation is, detailed characters, and an interesting storyline that either you haven't seen before, or is a new and interesting take on an NS classic, despite the fact the new nation is only a week old. You might not have read the whole post, but you know how long it was. That's them.

The second group is by far the most common, and follows a progression path not unlike a plateauing mountain. We'll call them the average group. From day one, their posts are fairly low to mid-range quality, maybe a couple paragraphs for more detailed ones, or a page or two if they put a lot of time and effort into a post. From day one they form the meat and potatoes of the RP community, although they tend to be looked down on by more experienced nations for low RP skill. Often they are lost for some time before beginning their climb, and are helped a lot if older nations are nice to them and explain things to them, such as the difference between IC and OOC.
Standard Progression: Like a plateauing mountain. They start at the bottom, with very short, low quality posts, and rise fairly quickly, depending on the company they keep. Some stay with low quality posts for a long time because they only RPed with other nations their size, some rise quickly because they managed to get taken under the wing of an experienced nation. But over time, their skill grows. Their posts become better, longer, more fleshed out. They start to have characters you recognize, with traits and quirks. You care about their characters. This takes time, and it's usually only a couple years in that they reach this high point. Some continue rising even from that, constantly working to better themselves, while some level off after one to three years and just sort of stagnate, though possibly not forever. A downside is that older nations may still look down on them even after their RPing improves, because they have long memories and can recall when their posts were very bad. When they see the name, they think of the one sentence posts, even if by now they're much better.
Rarity: Extremely common. Almost everybody on here.
Examples: Me. You. The person reading this right now. The 03 nations with the terrifyingly long posts. The 07 nations with the one sentence war declarations.

The third group ... well ... odds are they're not reading this right now. They are the bane of 'dignified' RP on NS. They start out much the same as the second group, only worse, and they don't get at all better. Oftentimes, they actually get worse, surprisingly, or they only rise very slowly, slow enough that they don't fit in the second group. Frequently younger than other categories, but not always. Most people tend to avoid them, or they try RPing with them for a while and end up giving up. Sometimes they are poor, misguided souls who would absolutely love to get better at RPing but have some problem holding them back, or just don't know how. If properly educated, they can sometimes progress to the second group and begin an orderly climb. Frequently don't understand more complicated RP concepts such as IC and OOC.
Standard Progression: Start at the bottom and have nowhere to go. One sentence posts, five trillion man armies, nukes, and hatred of the UN are all trademarks of this group, though they also take much more benign forms, often people who just like posting short posts or think that's how everyone does it. Some have good intentions but just can't pull it off. Inevitably, many of these players leave NS in fairly short order, either because they 'didn't get it', people didn't like them, or they didn't fit in. If they stick around, they don't really get better. Sometimes they progress from one sentence posts to two or three sentence posts, but not much past that.
Rarity: Common in new nations. Rare in older nations.
Examples: The new nation that doesn't bother to try and understand things when people explain stuff about NS RPing to them. The older nation where you've seen a bunch of their posts, and they either a) don't seem to care, or b) just aren't trying.




What it boils down to, and what Mac's pointing out, is that almost everybody a month or two down the road is in the second group, but a month or two down the road everyone in that group's RPing is bad. The older nations are still in that group, but much further down the road, and have progressed to the point where they're 'the veterans', 'the good RPers', 'the 03 nations', or whatever. Then they look down at the new people in the same group, not realizing they, too, were once like that.

I was once like that. April 03, I posted one sentence posts, and so did everyone else, because we were all at the same place. Nowadays, those same nations, including myself, are posting longer, more detailed posts. We're smarter, we're better writers, we tend to get along better OOC. The nice ones try and help out new nations as much as possible. The not-so-nice ones look down their noses and sneer at the one-sentence posts.

Takes all kinds.

I'd just like to add.

This will help, A LOT (http://dictionary.reference.com/)

Oh, and use this for writing when you want something like, 'Troop movement was fast, but the military wanted it to be faster', and you can't just think of a word better than faster. Only problem here is that you have to use the root word. So instead of 'faster' you have to type 'fast', just as an example, of course. (http://thesaurus.reference.com/)

So will Open Office (http://www.openoffice.org/) or Google's thing (http://docs.google.com/). We should really make a listing of useful sites and software...

To tell you the truth, I don't think this is a good idea. I like the idea of helping some new players get along, but I don't like the idea of some guy who thinks that since he's been here for a couple years that he's a RPing master coming along and telling me what I can and can't post.

Well, I never told you what you could and could not post. But I think that from a literary perspective it's pretty obvious what is good writing is and isn't.

We should try to help people who are new at RPing get along, but let me have my own style.

It's not a question of style - it's a question of how much effort you are putting into your post. If your post is shit, then your post is shit. Shit is not a style.

I don't feel like writing up a huge public announcement or a letter to all nations all the time. One of the things I liked about these forums was that anyone could RP without being criticized. I mean, look at Blackpanthers2's RP. It's poorly written and not very well thought out, but people are still having fun in it. Doing this will start a long line of grammar nazis, and divide the nations up into the groups who spell good, the groups who don't, and McPsychoville.

Like I said in the opening post, I'm sure you're having fun. But, I also said that I guarantee you will have more fun putting more thought into your posts. I think that in two to three years you will agree with me. :)

Well, it's peoples choice if they want to write like "shit". It's a very slippery slope from "Hey, try to spell a little better" to "Get out of the topic if you're not going to capitalize your I" I'm part of a video gaming community that did something like this, and within a month, they were at each other's about something as simple as a comma.

And I have written long posts, and it is fun, but sometimes you just don't feel like it. You just don't feel like writing three paragraphs about the fleet sailing from your country to your enemy's. You just want to declare war. It's people's choice how they right.

I'd like to know what people think of me as a RPer. I try to keep things realistic, but I know my posts are sometimes a bit short. However, I've definitely improved- especially compared to a certain nation I'm at war with...
hataria

I'd like to know what people think of me as a RPer. I try to keep things realistic, but I know my posts are sometimes a bit short. However, I've definitely improved- especially compared to a certain nation I'm at war with...
hataria
So would I, especially since I try to give more detail in keeping with a generic "fair warning" principle; for those possibly unfamiliar with either the tech I use or my fantasy-style minorities. But yeah, certain areas (my economy, soon to be my military if I'm to keep it pegged to my game population at even a reasonably low level) are beyond my ability to reliably track and thus either are (or will be soon) calculator-derived for me. I should think that would help me focus more on the writing rather than endless self-fact-checking, right?:confused: I can take what critiques I need (I know they exist...:headbang:), and for now just hope I'm better than when I started in the Strator War RP (or The People's Earth for that matter, though I remember it fondly anyway)...

Lolz! r I a good RPGer guyz?!1

When I first got here I was a horrible, horrible RPer. I didn't understand the system, I was used to doing characters not entire countries. But I grew into it (And did Advanced English :P).

I think we ought to give people time to improve, but some of them just don't try. They want free passes to the big leagues. They bring in god-like beings to the material plane, they claim to have ungodly amounts of power. It's annoying, not because its unbeatable (Because theres always a bigger wanker and/or irritable straight-edged player) but because they don't earn what they want.

Respect and power come with skill and ability. If a person is a terrible writer AND wants to play with the big boys, with weapons and technology that have forced him up there...It's not on.

We as the elders of the community, should therefore, try and nurture the new generation, and gradually let them progress.

And you outgrew the obsessive semi-colon use.

Haraki, while I don't think we get along at all OOC, I have to fully agree with what you're saying. The thing is though, back in 'the day', I'm pretty sure we had respect and admiration for those who were much mightier than us. I knew that superpowers like Aust and AMF could trounce me, but I also had a great deal of respect for their skills, even for Russian Forces I liked because he was real nice to me OOC, even if I was a clueless noob.

I don't see this anymore. I see "oh, X has a strong airforce, or Y has a strong navy" but I don't see, from the new players "you better not mess with him, he's a great rper" or "watch out for his skills" (apart from AMF, everyone knows AMF) and in general I've seen a lack of respect for old, good RPers.

Something I'm also seeing is lack of respect between RPers. Even in early 04, I was on good terms with my enemies, take Doomingsland for example, the Catholic mass murderer we all know and love. I know he's a staunch anti communist gun nut in RL. Back in 04 I was as red as you could get yet we cooperated fine and we had alot of fun (of course I always lost). Now, I just see it as "FOK U IM IGNORIN". Oh well. Natural progression. I will always say that early 2005 was the last good few months of II.

Also something that annoys me is when young nations think they can stand against the established powers of NS. Then when you mobilise your forces they get angry that they're totally outnumbered. Suggestion? Just remember that an 03 or 04 nation is going to wipe you out. An 05 nation will probably smash you, too. Would Lithuania challenge Russia? I tihnk not, Russia could stompthem. If you want to stand up against big nations, prepare to be stomped (which is why I have alot of respect for Iragia for taking on a bunch of us goody-goody nations and not whining).

I wish I could be bothered to RP more.

And you outgrew the obsessive semi-colon use.

I like my semi-colons...

Well, I stumbled upon an argument in #draftroom and it consisted of people bashing the 2006 and 2007 'generation' of roleplayers who have played on International Incidents. Generally speaking, the majority of well known roleplayers who are known for their ability are '03-'05. I agree with this, but I don't. What I mean is that I concede that there are very few '06 and '07 nations that I really think are good roleplayers/writers. However, I also concede that in '03 many '03 roleplayers were horrible roleplayers. For me, myself, my 'turning point' was thanks to the World War/World at War off-site roleplaying community I hosted, and thanks to model nations that I haven't seen around (Agnosticium and TJHairball's now deceased roleplaying nation) for a while. The point I am trying to make is that with time a large portion of the players we now consider horrible roleplayers will probably get better - therefore, older players should not necessarily shun the younger generation because their writing abilities are not up to par. The fact of the matter is that they have not had the years of experience we've had, and at least in my case, I was just as bad as them in June 2003 (when I first registered The Macabees).

Nevertheless, I think that there should be a greater effort on part of the newer nations to improve themselves. Newer nations should be willing to take constructive criticism from older nations. Although this isn't a problem only with newer players (there are many older players who are quite naïve themselves), the newer players certainly make up the majority of the 'perpetrators'. I think the most important thing newer nations should be doing is putting effort into their nations and into their writing.

It's not as if there is a long list of threads (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8822114&postcount=3) that can help you with the various aspect of roleplaying. There is even a guide on writing (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9689501&postcount=7) by Iuthia.

In the end, roleplaying is supposed to be fun, so I suppose you roleplay the way that is the most appealing to you. However, I think that hte majority of players who roleplay with two paragraph posts have not attempted to write more. In fact, I think that once you begin to write well (and anybody can write well if they have patience enough to learn and to do it) you will enjoy it more than you think you will, and you will certainly enjoy it more than you enjoy roleplaying with two line responses. This was certainly the case with me, and I would bet money that most of our '03, '04 and '05 nations have gone through the same revelations.

This thread is nothing more than a plea to newer players to try to make this forum a better place. ;)
Well said, Mac. For some, writing is an art where it take time and practice. For some, it is a skill which is born, not nurtured. It comes all down to style and how one approaches it. Some start learning the ways of role-playing by jumping straight into the pool, if you will, and swimming. Others observe those swimming in the pool,then after a while, do the same (like me). I modelled myself off, to varying extents, on the players of the Big Three. I try to depict my characters and plot, if not the other affairs in a country beyond the armed services...however, that does not mean I'm incompetent at role-playing. It means I simply prefer to role-play in a different style than others...though I'm making minor steps out of my confort zone by using a war plan I've had for a while to make story developments for my country and the like.

What Mac says makes good sense, but then again most of the things Mac says make good sense. IMO there are two main keys to roleplaying. The first is proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation. I'm not a grammar nazi by any means, I make it a habit to go for somebody's throat if they aren't good at those things, but at the same time I simply won't participate in the thread (if it's open). I can't imagine I'm the only person who's pushed away from a thread by mediocre English. The second key to roleplaying is quite a bit harder and that's attention to detail; a person has to imagine in their mind the scene that they're trying to convey and put it down on paper as vividly as it can be imagined. If you think of sentences as what they are, complete thoughts, it takes dozens of thoughts to describe an entire scene. If you approach it like that, instead of a 2,000 word English paper that has to be ground out, it's a lot easier to write in detail.

I like my semi-colons...

Yeah, but now you use commas like a normal person.


When I first got here I was a horrible, horrible RPer. I didn't understand the system, I was used to doing characters not entire countries. But I grew into it (And did Advanced English :P).

I think we ought to give people time to improve, but some of them just don't try. They want free passes to the big leagues. They bring in god-like beings to the material plane, they claim to have ungodly amounts of power. It's annoying, not because its unbeatable (Because theres always a bigger wanker and/or irritable straight-edged player) but because they don't earn what they want.

Respect and power come with skill and ability. If a person is a terrible writer AND wants to play with the big boys, with weapons and technology that have forced him up there...It's not on.

We as the elders of the community, should therefore, try and nurture the new generation, and gradually let them progress.

See? No semi-colons.

Nice post by Mac, and parts of it definately true. There's been a lot of either brief posting going on or abbreviated threads as of recent-caused me to lose interest in NS from May '06 to August '06, when I got back into it. Granted, my first few months-and I was the very last (practically literally-December 29, '05) of the '05ers-were bad. When Pythogoria came around in early '06, however, my style turned around. His writing-if he's watching somehow, no offense-but it sucked. However, he was able to keep plots going and I did a lot of threads with him, and that generation of activity really spurned my writing to significantly higher level. Granted, I don't consider myself one of the tops right now, but I think I'm good-and I think that started with those early '06 days.

Once again, great post, Mac.

Just curious, Is it just me or the 06-07'ers not being respected.

I am an 07'er (started NS 2 months ago) and I tried to post in a PR, but what happened was those people with longer time on the RP and bigger populations (the 03-05'ers) just ignored me. No, i didn't god mod or anything like that. I tried to start my nation into this RP but the people just ignored me.

So, I'm just wondering if the 06-07'ers don't get the respest we deserve (or want dependingon your POV)

Just curious, Is it just me or the 06-07'ers not being respected.

I am an 07'er (started NS 2 months ago) and I tried to post in a PR, but what happened was those people with longer time on the RP and bigger populations (the 03-05'ers) just ignored me. No, i didn't god mod or anything like that. I tried to start my nation into this RP but the people just ignored me.

So, I'm just wondering if the 06-07'ers don't get the respect we deserve (or want dependingon your POV)

Just curious, Is it just me or the 06-07'ers not being respected.

I am an 07'er (started NS 2 months ago) and I tried to post in a PR, but what happened was those people with longer time on the RP and bigger populations (the 03-05'ers) just ignored me. No, i didn't god mod or anything like that. I tried to start my nation into this RP but the people just ignored me.

So, I'm just wondering if the 06-07'ers don't get the respect we deserve (or want dependingon your POV)

Haraki, while I don't think we get along at all OOC, I have to fully agree with what you're saying. The thing is though, back in 'the day', I'm pretty sure we had respect and admiration for those who were much mightier than us. I knew that superpowers like Aust and AMF could trounce me, but I also had a great deal of respect for their skills, even for Russian Forces I liked because he was real nice to me OOC, even if I was a clueless noob.

I don't see this anymore. I see "oh, X has a strong airforce, or Y has a strong navy" but I don't see, from the new players "you better not mess with him, he's a great rper" or "watch out for his skills" (apart from AMF, everyone knows AMF) and in general I've seen a lack of respect for old, good RPers.

Something I'm also seeing is lack of respect between RPers. Even in early 04, I was on good terms with my enemies, take Doomingsland for example, the Catholic mass murderer we all know and love. I know he's a staunch anti communist gun nut in RL. Back in 04 I was as red as you could get yet we cooperated fine and we had alot of fun (of course I always lost). Now, I just see it as "FOK U IM IGNORIN". Oh well. Natural progression. I will always say that early 2005 was the last good few months of II.



I completely agree with you about the old days and us having respect. I remember very different rules for ignoring, which have changed a lot to become what they are now. The accepted RP rules were that if you ignored a valid IC action, you were ignored in return by everyone. No one posted in your threads, except to ridicule you, and so on and so forth. Which meant people actually had to RP things like fear for the GDODAD, because if they didn't they would be invaded by larger nations, and if that happened they would either a) have their nation destroyed, or b) get ignored by the RPing community.

I remember one time Perrier got on all our nerves, and we glassed him. When he tried to continue RPing as Perrier, SLAG posted the best response to something like that I've ever seen - "Perrier, you're dead. Stay in character." Sums it up perfectly.

And I agree there should be a lot more respect between RPers OOC. I don't really see it as possible to have an RP if the players hate each other, because then it becomes personal, they try bending things to their side to win to prove they're better than their enemy, and so on and so on. Unless they're two very dignified roleplayers, it's going to turn into a wankfest because neither person wants to lose to someone they OOC dislike. I firmly believe the greatest asset to RPing is OOC co-operation. Even if it's just sending off a TG first saying 'we're going to invade you, any questions send me a TG', that little bit of collaboration OOC makes a world of difference. It's even better if you get two people who OOC like each other getting in an IC fight. It's rare, because OOC friends tend to become IC allies, but as an example I'll use the recent AMF vs. Melkor fight that's going on. You can see by the OOC thread that there's a lot of collaboration going on, everyone's co-operating, and they're having a good time. Being friendly to each other. The result? No OOC bitching, and a damn fine RP comes out of it too.

Having been away from NationStates for two years due to technical issues, it gives me a certain, interesting and unique perspective on things and some memories of events back in the 'good old' days from 2003-2005 when I was 'frolicking' around. Coming back brings back a certain degree of nostalgia. I remember RPing with a great group of fun people, many of them now gone from NS. It's a pity since a lot of them were my friends and some others my opponents.

I remember some of RPs and I've read through some of them just to bring myself up to date on the details of my nation. It's been an experience I must say to return to this environment.

I'm not go to be critical about people and RPing ability, as it's not my place to do so, especially coming off such a long hiatus. But there is one thing I would like to comment on. The concept of wank. We have surely taken it to a whole new level. Today we are engulfed by both terrible things as number-wank and technology-wank (and just phallic comparisons in general). Forget RPing-ability. Even the best RPers are afflicted by such problems. It makes me cringe when I see people post a list of phalluses that they're bringing to a wankfest. It makes me cringe when people deluge you with insane quantities of weapons, personnel, and other technology.

The RPs that I enjoyed the most were with only a few weapons involved.

I see no difference between then and now. There are still good writers and bad writers, good RPers and bad RPers, all the people in between, and the elitists making threads complaining about how better things used to be. Don't we have a thread like this every week?

Just curious, Is it just me or the 06-07'ers not being respected.

I am an 07'er (started NS 2 months ago) and I tried to post in a PR, but what happened was those people with longer time on the RP and bigger populations (the 03-05'ers) just ignored me. No, i didn't god mod or anything like that. I tried to start my nation into this RP but the people just ignored me.

So, I'm just wondering if the 06-07'ers don't get the respect we deserve (or want dependingon your POV)

I haven't seen any 07ers whom I think I should respect (yet).

Still, people probably ignored yo because you only have 10 posts. At that stage noones sure how you're going to turn out, if you turn out at all. When you get more posts and its been established that you're staying in NS for more than a few days, and if you can write fairly well, people will get along with you.

I see no difference between then and now. There are still good writers and bad writers, good RPers and bad RPers, all the people in between, and the elitists making threads complaining about how better things used to be. Don't we have a thread like this every week?

Whats wrong with being an elitist?

I haven't seen any 07ers whom I think I should respect (yet).

Still, people probably ignored yo because you only have 10 posts. At that stage noones sure how you're going to turn out, if you turn out at all. When you get more posts and its been established that you're staying in NS for more than a few days, and if you can write fairly well, people will get along with you.




And I can't get more posts without more RPing. But I can't because no one respects me because I don't have enough posts

It's a vicious cycle

And I can't get more posts without more RPing. But I can't because no one respects me because I don't have enough posts

It's a vicious cycle

There is a general forum that you can start posting in to get more posts.

Brittonia: Buy stuff from storefronts. Ask for defence contracts. Post paper clippings in threads. Do smoe internal political or economic crap. If people see that before they see "EYAM AT WAR WIT U" they will respect you more as a new RPer and at the same time you can get posts. If you need posts, then just hang around and post opinions and stuff or buy things.

In the words of 4chan, LURK MOAR.

Brittonia: Buy stuff from storefronts. Ask for defence contracts. Post paper clippings in threads. Do smoe internal political or economic crap. If people see that before they see "EYAM AT WAR WIT U" they will respect you more as a new RPer and at the same time you can get posts. If you need posts, then just hang around and post opinions and stuff or buy things.

In the words of 4chan, LURK MOAR.

1) I never got the point of the storefronts. How do I even get the money to buy those things (Or how do I make sure it's not god modding?)?

2) Should I do an embassy thread that I see other people do?

Whats wrong with being an elitist?

I never attributed a positive or negative to the term, the fact that you immediately associated the word to a negative is quite telling though.

-.- the money is RPed, like your government spends a realistic amount of money according to your economy / size each year procuring defence from your own country and from other countries.

embassies = good but not always stimulative.

Good thread Jon, it really emphasizes some of the problems with the I.I. of late.

Its funny, I have been here for two years, and I can say it took that long to finally get good at writing. However, I had to WORK for it and not take the "My tanks fire at yours" one liner post route. Granted I'm not the best of writers, (I don't think I'm good at all though >.>), I still work towards getting better and learning more, and I think thats what new nations need to do.

On another note, new nations don't get my respect, because they don't give respect. End of story.

And I can't get more posts without more RPing. But I can't because no one respects me because I don't have enough posts

It's a vicious cycle

Something you could do is write history about your nation, or some other thing that would require detail; when older nations don't take you seriously, you can show them that thread. If its written well enough, I am sure most of the older nations will take you seriously, or give you more respect.

Questers, I think you're right on about respect for elders. When the guy behind Psov (long since deleted, though he was also the man behind Austo Hungary, who was in a big PR thing with AMF and FWS years ago...whatever) introduced me, about the first thing he said was "Oh, and there's this one guy, Automagfreek, who's, like, ridiculously powerful. Don't piss him off." And I added AMF to my dossier to 'keep an eye on him' because I had no idea how the war system worked.

When I had only a few hundred million people and wasn't active on these forums, he'd tell me about Doomingsland or Praetonia or TIOR or Generia, and during my growth as a nation I came to respect those names and the influence behind them. Since 2004, I've heard names like these, and although, for example, my nation IC loves to prod AMF, grumbles about Praetonia, is filled with a weird brotherly pride about the Doomani, and looks down its nose at Generia, I still respect all of them as RPers, and I still struggle to match their efforts at writing. They all have their talents: nobody writes a torture scene like Doom. Praetonia writes great newspaper articles. GE delves into crime better than anyone I know on II.

I have to agree, for months things have been in a predictable pattern: the '06 crop scurries around forging alliances and waging wars and snapping at each other over debates on communism, while in the background, Gholgoth, the CAD, and the Sovereign League lumber around and occasionally get together to bash the shit out of each other. Little nations, the people respected today, and they are emphatically NOT limited to those Big Three alliances, are respected for a reason. Learn from them. Make II a better place.

And yeah, I've just gotta ask...what's the opinion here of my RPing? (And yeah, I know someone's gonna bring up the Liberation of Czardas...I've heard it all and despite being an arrogant prick then, I accepted those mistakes a loooong time ago...)

To tell you the truth, I don't think this is a good idea. I like the idea of helping some new players get along, but I don't like the idea of some guy who thinks that since he's been here for a couple years that he's a RPing master coming along and telling me what I can and can't post.

We should try to help people who are new at RPing get along, but let me have my own style. I don't feel like writing up a huge public announcement or a letter to all nations all the time. One of the things I liked about these forums was that anyone could RP without being criticized. I mean, look at Blackpanthers2's RP. It's poorly written and not very well thought out, but people are still having fun in it. Doing this will start a long line of grammar nazis, and divide the nations up into the groups who spell good, the groups who don't, and McPsychoville.

Like I said several times, maybe if a nation is having trouble getting started, we could come in and help him/her get started, give them a few spelling lessons, etc, but don't start a long wave of prejudice.


Nobody is telling you what you can or can't post. Basically what the older (mature?) players are saying is that IF you want to be seen as a vialble, intelligent, thoughtful writer, here are some guidelines. If you don't give a shit, well then do your own thing. I myself had the foresight 3.5 years ago to print out my threads/posts as I went along. As with most new players, I had more enthusiasm than talent. One thing, however, that I always had was the awareness of grammar and spelling. I am a stickler for it. It never ceases to amaze me when I see poor grammar and first-grade spelling. Yes, some of it is poor typing abilities, and ALL players have the rare/occasional spelling/grammatical error, but some nations..........sheesh!!!!

Looking back to my posts, I see that a more thoughtful approach to writing has evolved over the years, not just in myself, but quite a lot of players. We're not just playing the "slash and hack" war scenario, though we all still like a good fight.

My advice? When you get an idea, mull it over a while. Jot down a few notes as they occur to you. Make believe that politicians aren't the assholes they are, and write political posts as if you were the politician themselves. Write your world as you would like it to be, not as you think it is. Writers create. So be creative. If that means being a little unrealistic, so be it.

Lolz! r I a good RPGer guyz?!1


U suk. Butt i meen that ina conztruktiv way....

(mature?)

I WILL NEVER SURRENDER, GLORY TO PETER PAN

And yeah, I've just gotta ask...what's the opinion here of my RPing? (And yeah, I know someone's gonna bring up the Liberation of Czardas...I've heard it all and despite being an arrogant prick then, I accepted those mistakes a loooong time ago...)

As far as I'm concerned, you are one of the best RPers here. Without that one special forces RP I had in your nation, I wouldn't be half as good as I am now.

I'd have to ask the same, but there aren't many good RPs going on that I can be involved in.

I WILL NEVER SURRENDER, GLORY TO PETER PAN
Word.:cool: Though seriously, is it considered wank when you list numbers and types of missiles incoming (and attack profiles) as "fair warning"? Or ditto for OOBs? I tend to leave range and detection possibilities fluid since those strike me as getting into the truly wanky level of detail, but then again I probably am immediate-post-n00b level at best...:headbang:
One improvement I'm trying to implement is stating supply/maneuver routes, which you should see later in my Nicksyllvania campaign, though it's a bit hard to introduce mid-RP. Would simply: The orders were drawn up. First Army under General Hogwash was to conduct a diversionary assault along Axis Vandalot-->Takeawholelot; while Third maneuvered wide to the north in a broad Axmewhat-->Saythatagain-->Where'd'hego arc to hit the enemy, pinned against the mountains to the south, in their left flank and rear while seizing the capital on the march... work?

As far as I'm concerned, you are one of the best RPers here. Without that one special forces RP I had in your nation, I wouldn't be half as good as I am now.

I'd have to ask the same, but there aren't many good RPs going on that I can be involved in.

Awwwww. :D

Seriously, that's very generous of you, and I'm glad that I brought about a positive change in your RPing.

Word.:cool: Though seriously, is it considered wank when you list numbers and types of missiles incoming (and attack profiles) as "fair warning"? Or ditto for ORBATs?


A good RP thread is going to have an accompanying OOC thread for the dissemination of such information. It is critical that such things be known, but stating it IC or as an OOC side note in an IC post can be tacky, especially if it's long-winded. RP-by-numbers is to creative writing what connect-the-dots is to museum-quality art.

I have my divided USA RP in international incidents

any advice from the vets?

I have my divided USA RP in international incidents

any advice from the vets?

I've seen these USA threads before. Joined in one a while back and the biggest problem was too many players claiming just a few states. In your thread, your'e limiting each player to 3 states. That would mean 16 -17 players if all states are claimed. Way too many. I like Taleloran's suggestion. Maybe have 7-8 players w/3 states each and the rest of the USA unclaimed. It just makes for a more cohesive and uncomplicated scenario. I would also suggest limiting how many players could be allies. Too many alliances will cause dog-piling and that would make it too easy to overwhelm unallied players.

And an OOC thread is a good idea. Cuts down on the unecessary talk in the IC thread.

I miss seeing the Kraven war threads. I sometimes feel that many of us 2006-2007 guys just don't compare...

I've seen these USA threads before. Joined in one a while back and the biggest problem was too many players claiming just a few states. In your thread, your'e limiting each player to 3 states. That would mean 16 -17 players if all states are claimed. Way too many. I like Taleloran's suggestion. Maybe have 7-8 players w/3 states each and the rest of the USA unclaimed. It just makes for a more cohesive and uncomplicated scenario. I would also suggest limiting how many players could be allies. Too many alliances will cause dog-piling and that would make it too easy to overwhelm unallied players.

And an OOC thread is a good idea. Cuts down on the unecessary talk in the IC thread.

OK

my question is should I give everyone one more stste and the remaining is the DMZ or one large DMZ with what is remaining

I miss seeing the Kraven war threads. I sometimes feel that many of us 2006-2007 guys just don't compare...


Compare to whom? The nations who have been around a while weren't always good writers. It takes time. If you want to be of the caliber of those who have been writing for 2 or 3 years, get to it. Practice makes perfect. Someday, a 2009 nation will be lamenting that the '06-'07 players are just too good at rping and that they don't compare......

OK

my question is should I give everyone one more stste and the remaining is the DMZ or one large DMZ with what is remaining


Good idea. Let the existing players claim 1 more state, place them all on a US map, and see what hasn't been claimed. The unclaimed is now your dmz.

Good idea. Let the existing players claim 1 more state, place them all on a US map, and see what hasn't been claimed. The unclaimed is now your dmz.

It's IMPOSSIBLE to color a map with MS Paint

I've been doing it and it takes forever

I wonder what people think of me...*ponder* Besides colon use, obviously :P

It's IMPOSSIBLE to color a map with MS Paint

I've been doing it and it takes forever

Just outline the different areas with different colors.

I like to think of myself as reasonably good on a post by post basis, my overall plots can get a bit cheesy and/or repetetive sometimes though. I think that can sum up quite a few 2006-2007'ers.

RP-by-numbers is to creative writing what connect-the-dots is to museum-quality art.

Sigged.


Chron.. I have to say you're one of those people who's sorta.. well, the best simile I can come up with is that you're like the AMF of FT. Kinda. You're very active, powerful, and you'll RP with anyone - and, of course, you're a great RPer. Most people tend to be a mix of those four attributes in FT - they might be active, powerful, and a great RPer - but utterly elitist, they might be big, active, willing to RP, but not really that great at RPing.. but, when it comes to recognition, the word 'Chronosia' is probably the most well-recognized one in FT.

...but, in return for this praise, I demand six semicolons in your next post! :P

Chronosia = epic

also semi colons > double-full stop ellipses

GOD I hate those.

Sigged.


Chron.. I have to say you're one of those people who's sorta.. well, the best simile I can come up with is that you're like the AMF of FT. Kinda. You're very active, powerful, and you'll RP with anyone - and, of course, you're a great RPer. Most people tend to be a mix of those four attributes in FT - they might be active, powerful, and a great RPer - but utterly elitist, they might be big, active, willing to RP, but not really that great at RPing.. but, when it comes to recognition, the word 'Chronosia' is probably the most well-recognized one in FT.

...but, in return for this praise, I demand six semicolons in your next post! :P


Well said. I think Chron is an excellent rper, especially in the FT genre. I very seldom venture in FT even though I have a stated presence there. Just not my thing. I like the vampire/werewolf/sorceror scenario in an MT setting.

..you.. really hate my.. double-full.. stop.. *sniff*

..ellipses..

Today is just a double-full-stop ellipse day. Tomorrow will be a 'inverted commas around everything that could possibly have any sort of sexual inneundo associated with it' day.

Oh, and MT just doesn't seem to be my thing. Well, kinda not. My only MT RP involves my country being dissected by rapacious invaders because of a lack of any real defense forces in the country. S'fun. (It's more due to my lack of knowledge about MT NS tactics and strategy, bar the old standby, 'nuke the bastards'.)

Personally, though, I see the scene as a sort of 'who knows who' thing. '02-;04 nations are given respect, 'cause, chances are they've probably done something cool and worthy of it, but it tends to be by name in the end, rather than by, y'know, age. Of course, I'm elitist in that I'll only RP with people who can spellingerate and grammarise decently, irregardless of when they're from.

Oh, and here's one more for the road, Questers..

..

Excuse me for a moment.

:mp5: :mp5: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :gundge: :mad: :mad: :D

Thank you.

A good RP thread is going to have an accompanying OOC thread for the dissemination of such information. It is critical that such things be known, but stating it IC or as an OOC side note in an IC post can be tacky, especially if it's long-winded. RP-by-numbers is to creative writing what connect-the-dots is to museum-quality art.
Roger. Will definitely keep that in mind in future, although mightn't that be catch-as-can since most of my current running RPs only got a dedicated OOC thread later?:confused: I like the idea, don't get me wrong. In fact, putting most of the movements in an OOC thread could even get a Matrix Game type dynamic going soon if well-done; that is, if the players start focusing more on mutually exploring a military situation than on advocating their IC "side" quite so much. But so far the only war thread I've started myself (which I will put up an OOC thread for ASAP:D) is itself a spinoff from the Zanski one; my involvement in that even being mainly as a distant-spinoff from my Strator campaign. Needless to say, as soon as I've won/survived my current war I plan to have an IC year or two (five-to-ten would be ideal) of real peace if II will oblige me (let me guess: unlikely, eh?:rolleyes:).

my sign up thread is the ooc thread

He Just could not believe it, as he stared down the page. Reading one of the threads in the forums of his favourite games.
"What?! Questers using a myriad of Gun Smilies?! INCONCEIVABLE!" Bazalonia exclaimed.

"But then again HL, did tease him with the use of all those double-dot ellispsi. Even sneaking in a second one when he said 'one more for the road' The man sitting at his computer typing away an in-character response to an out of character thread. The desk the computer was sitting on exactly mirrored the room it was sitting in. Messy. No one else was around and with the music blaring in his headphones he could be forgiven if a burglar came in and pilfered the items in it.

Though the area that he lived in was nice, very respectable if there was any crime in the area it wasn't something that was readily apparent. He continued to type away very aware of a number of things. His location in the "guidelines" that were being discussed in the thread he was typing up. A creative mind that has ideas but is somewhat phobic of long posts.

"Bah.." he expressed to no one in particular for indeed no one was there in the room nor even in the entire house apart from him. He decided that he had rambled on enough and went to see if his other RP thread had some developement that he could post on.

He Just could not believe it, as he stared down the page. Reading one of the threads in the forums of his favourite games.
"What?! Questers using a myriad of Gun Smilies?! INCONCEIVABLE!" Bazalonia exclaimed.

"But then again HL, did tease him with the use of all those double-dot ellispsi. Even sneaking in a second one when he said 'one more for the road' The man sitting at his computer typing away an in-character response to an out of character thread. The desk the computer was sitting on exactly mirrored the room it was sitting in. Messy. No one else was around and with the music blaring in his headphones he could be forgiven if a burglar came in and pilfered the items in it.

Though the area that he lived in was nice, very respectable if there was any crime in the area it wasn't something that was readily apparent. He continued to type away very aware of a number of things. His location in the "guidelines" that were being discussed in the thread he was typing up. A creative mind that has ideas but is somewhat phobic of long posts.

"Bah.." he expressed to no one in particular for indeed no one was there in the room nor even in the entire house apart from him. He decided that he had rambled on enough and went to see if his other RP thread had some developement that he could post on.

Did you just RP?
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

It's a weird combination. It's certaintly in an RP style but. It's not an NS RP in the sense that Bazalonia is me and is real and everything in there is real. So it's more of a story than an RP.

It even self referenced itself... So take it as you will

He Just could not believe it, as he stared down the page. Reading one of the threads in the forums of his favourite games.
"What?! Questers using a myriad of Gun Smilies?! INCONCEIVABLE!" Bazalonia exclaimed.

"But then again HL, did tease him with the use of all those double-dot ellispsi. Even sneaking in a second one when he said 'one more for the road' The man sitting at his computer typing away an in-character response to an out of character thread. The desk the computer was sitting on exactly mirrored the room it was sitting in. Messy. No one else was around and with the music blaring in his headphones he could be forgiven if a burglar came in and pilfered the items in it.

Though the area that he lived in was nice, very respectable if there was any crime in the area it wasn't something that was readily apparent. He continued to type away very aware of a number of things. His location in the "guidelines" that were being discussed in the thread he was typing up. A creative mind that has ideas but is somewhat phobic of long posts.

"Bah.." he expressed to no one in particular for indeed no one was there in the room nor even in the entire house apart from him. He decided that he had rambled on enough and went to see if his other RP thread had some developement that he could post on.

XDDD

EDIT: WAIT I JUST SPOTTED IT, YOU BASTARD >=(

It's a weird combination. It's certaintly in an RP style but. It's not an NS RP in the sense that Bazalonia is me and is real and everything in there is real. So it's more of a story than an RP.

It even self referenced itself... So take it as you will

I dunno

i'm a lonely n00b

You're not a n00b, you're a newb. Biiiig difference.

You're not a n00b, you're a newb. Biiiig difference.

what? I don't speak in 1337?

what? I don't speak in 1337?

n00b = 'omg wiht my 5 trillion men armeez i declare war on teh un and wit 3985065872 n00kz i blow up every1 in mt way :upyours: '

newb = 'Hey, I'm not quite sure how I do this. Could you give me a little help?'

I think my RPing has gotten a little better...
Still do have some moments, but I have been trying to get better...
Haven't I?

n00b = 'omg wiht my 5 trillion men armeez i declare war on teh un and wit 3985065872 n00kz i blow up every1 in mt way :upyours: '

newb = 'Hey, I'm not quite sure how I do this. Could you give me a little help?'

that made me smile :)
LOL, touche

have I gotten better at RP though?

Well, it's peoples choice if they want to write like "shit".

Well, of course it's someone choice. Just like it's someone's choice to fail a test by writing a crap essay. Unfortunately, that doesn't make it good. And you can have MORE fun writing well, as opposed to not putting any effort into your posts.

It's a very slippery slope from "Hey, try to spell a little better" to "Get out of the topic if you're not going to capitalize your I" I'm part of a video gaming community that did something like this, and within a month, they were at each other's about something as simple as a comma.

That's not a slippery slope at all, because that example wasn't an argument. It was their choice to not let people with bad grammar partake in the game or whatever it is.

And I have written long posts, and it is fun, but sometimes you just don't feel like it. You just don't feel like writing three paragraphs about the fleet sailing from your country to your enemy's. You just want to declare war. It's people's choice how they right.

Of course it's their choice. Was was never a point of contention - you are missing the point. My argument is that you will get more out of the game if you write well.

that made me smile :)
LOL, touche

have I gotten better at RP though?

you only have 25 posts... unless your an old timer, how could you have grown and developed?

you only have 25 posts... unless your an old timer, how could you have grown and developed?

By reasoning...


My region just lost Kyanges and Upper Xen, big players in the old world. Though a couple people lurking on there like Huntaer and Tanthan are huge also. I think the old nations are stop playing, but I wonder when the next die-hard awesome player (like AMF or Chronosia) will come onto NS

I wonder what people think of me...*ponder* Besides colon use, obviously :P

It's in your sig.

Pfft. Not everyone fears me and my yet-to-be-confirmed-because-uncertainty-causes-fear daemonancy :P

Pfft. Not everyone fears me and my yet-to-be-confirmed-because-uncertainty-causes-fear daemonancy :P

Tell that to my overpriced sigils of protection.

Now your just over-reacting :P

XDDD

EDIT: WAIT I JUST SPOTTED IT, YOU BASTARD >=(

You spotted the double-dot elipsis, didn't you.....

Bwhahahahahahahahahahahaha

My nation (or rather race) joined back in may of '04. Back then I would have considered myself an "adaquate RP'er", now, I can honestly say (at least in my opinion) I am a fairly good Rp'er. Not the best mind you, but pretty good all round. Some people on this thread could probably support my opinions.

As for newer nations and such, I say give them a chance at least. After all, many of us where nothing great either.

Perhaps the real problem isn’t the fact that new players are bad writers, but rather they are fundamentally corrupt. Alone, however, this just simply isn’t the problem. Nation States has developed a core of excellent role players whose diction, elegances, and fluency are wondrous to behold. When engaged in an intelligent role play it isn’t beyond reasoning to be writing with people who know four languages or have degrees in biological engineering. Regardless of this fact I called them the ‘core’ for a reason. A ‘core’ suggests only a small portion and this is the reasoning I’m going upon. The majority of Nation States are filled with these ‘corrupted’ writers I mentioned in the first sentence. When they write amongst themselves they further fall into the realm of bad writing unable to remove themselves from the clique of corruption. It gets to the point where even when removed from said environment, they are only mocked and sent cascading backwards or if accepted, blown out of the water. The third scenario is by far the worst. Because of the difference in skill levels, the said player is greatly outmatched in writing skills. When defeated they fall back on the heart of their corruption. What do I mean? Take for example the word “Newb”. When such a word is dropped by any player of any class, respect for them should instantly fall to negative 5. There is now way to escape the word once it has landed and the users are forever branded by those in contact. One wrong placement and its time to use a new login name. The rest of their downfall is in the fact that they make rookie mistakes. They are impatient and jump into stories which far outclass them.

For instances I remember when Mac was involved in Earth II. A war ensued which was far outside my grasp. I wasn’t involved and for good reason, had I been I might have fallen into the hole of despair as I mentioned earlier. Yet I didn’t turn my back on it. I watched with unbridled curiosity and delight. I knew that to play I had to learn the rules. Corny analogy aside it’s a concept that could save so many.

Finally there is also the confusion about the style in which to play out your story. It’s a question that has plagued me for many months. Take for instance the current war between Doomingsland and AMF. Here are two writers with much skill and grasp of military warfare and technology, such that far exceeds my own. How deep do you dive into the war without losing grasp of its sheer size? When do you stop writing about the individual soldier and how the general reacts and when do you start writing about divisional movements and home front economics. Should the two be intermixed and to what degree? Should one be perused over the other? Such confusion could easily lead to one’s demise.

How deep do you dive into the war without losing grasp of its sheer size? When do you stop writing about the individual soldier and how the general reacts and when do you start writing about divisional movements and home front economics.

If you're beginning to RP, you should only look at the generals POV IMO - the individual soldier isn't going to progress the war. When you get more talented at RP you can start bringing in characters.

U suk. Butt i meen that ina conztruktiv way....

wut y?!?!1 I do nut suk0rz. :upyours:

tok u wil nt suxor if u get me a sammawich lolololol

Well, I find the best way to RP a character is after you've done your troop movement and/or general reactions stuff. This is what I usually do just for fun and to develop my skills a little. There are some times when I realize I have messed up entirly on my RP, I wouldn't concider myself an old timer because Im not as active in the NS world as I am in the EII world of which I havn't been a member of for long. Basically it would boil down to if you have your basics right.

example being- Two nations are fighting a war, nation A and Nation B lets say these are the RP posts below.

A: My army comes in and begins to fight (Well we all know this is a bad RP post, one. Its not your army, its the nations army, and why would you use army which is primarily made out of infantry soldiers and basic ground forces IE wheres your navy and air force, wheres your military.)

B: Defense system goes online and begans to fire at the oncoming "Army". (Its small, but if this had discribed its defense sytems even this would work as the oncoming army would most likly be deploying by ground sence no air force or navy were specified)

I could go on for awhile but I dont think many people will read this, so my point is. Even with small posts you can be saying alot, so when you write that small one sentence post think about what you are writting down. Maybe even put it into a word document and just look at it, think about what the other person is going to say about it and think about your future actions because of this post.

Discription provides a picture, a picture is worth 1000 words. So try to put in those 1000 words.

OK, I'm in the Africa RP and i don't know what to do

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Just thought I'd help add a little more weight to Mac's original post.

It's absolutely true. I've said basically this exact same thing before, only never in a thread all its own, because what it boils down to is that, as far as I can tell, there are three main groups of RPers on NS. Most people fall into one of the three groups, and the three groups have predictable progression patterns over years.

NOTE: Contains generalizations. If you disagree with something, just consider yourself the exception.


The first group is what I'll call the elite group for now. These are the people - you've all probably seen a few - who are posting amazing posts from day one. Frequently this is because they are experienced writers who have just found the site, or have read a few exemplary threads beforehand trying get an idea of what RPing is like here. Frequently they are older and more mature from day one than the other two groups. Going along with this, many people from this group tend to post less and less frequently than those from other groups.
Standard Progression: These players start high and get higher. Their posts start out very high quality, drawing in other players with high quality posts. The downside is they don't really have anywhere to get better to. Sure, they advance in terms of NS, but not really in terms of RPing. A frequent bad habit of these players is to form a small clique of good RPers and never leave it, whether through making up a setting that only the nations in the clique have, or by simply closing every RP. By doing this, they essentially not only isolate themselves from the rest of the NS community, but they also don't let other, newer players benefit from their skill.
Rarity: Rare. Very rare.
Examples: You've all seen the nations that post a five page long introduction, complete with a unique idea for what their nation is, detailed characters, and an interesting storyline that either you haven't seen before, or is a new and interesting take on an NS classic, despite the fact the new nation is only a week old. You might not have read the whole post, but you know how long it was. That's them.

The second group is by far the most common, and follows a progression path not unlike a plateauing mountain. We'll call them the average group. From day one, their posts are fairly low to mid-range quality, maybe a couple paragraphs for more detailed ones, or a page or two if they put a lot of time and effort into a post. From day one they form the meat and potatoes of the RP community, although they tend to be looked down on by more experienced nations for low RP skill. Often they are lost for some time before beginning their climb, and are helped a lot if older nations are nice to them and explain things to them, such as the difference between IC and OOC.
Standard Progression: Like a plateauing mountain. They start at the bottom, with very short, low quality posts, and rise fairly quickly, depending on the company they keep. Some stay with low quality posts for a long time because they only RPed with other nations their size, some rise quickly because they managed to get taken under the wing of an experienced nation. But over time, their skill grows. Their posts become better, longer, more fleshed out. They start to have characters you recognize, with traits and quirks. You care about their characters. This takes time, and it's usually only a couple years in that they reach this high point. Some continue rising even from that, constantly working to better themselves, while some level off after one to three years and just sort of stagnate, though possibly not forever. A downside is that older nations may still look down on them even after their RPing improves, because they have long memories and can recall when their posts were very bad. When they see the name, they think of the one sentence posts, even if by now they're much better.
Rarity: Extremely common. Almost everybody on here.
Examples: Me. You. The person reading this right now. The 03 nations with the terrifyingly long posts. The 07 nations with the one sentence war declarations.

The third group ... well ... odds are they're not reading this right now. They are the bane of 'dignified' RP on NS. They start out much the same as the second group, only worse, and they don't get at all better. Oftentimes, they actually get worse, surprisingly, or they only rise very slowly, slow enough that they don't fit in the second group. Frequently younger than other categories, but not always. Most people tend to avoid them, or they try RPing with them for a while and end up giving up. Sometimes they are poor, misguided souls who would absolutely love to get better at RPing but have some problem holding them back, or just don't know how. If properly educated, they can sometimes progress to the second group and begin an orderly climb. Frequently don't understand more complicated RP concepts such as IC and OOC.
Standard Progression: Start at the bottom and have nowhere to go. One sentence posts, five trillion man armies, nukes, and hatred of the UN are all trademarks of this group, though they also take much more benign forms, often people who just like posting short posts or think that's how everyone does it. Some have good intentions but just can't pull it off. Inevitably, many of these players leave NS in fairly short order, either because they 'didn't get it', people didn't like them, or they didn't fit in. If they stick around, they don't really get better. Sometimes they progress from one sentence posts to two or three sentence posts, but not much past that.
Rarity: Common in new nations. Rare in older nations.
Examples: The new nation that doesn't bother to try and understand things when people explain stuff about NS RPing to them. The older nation where you've seen a bunch of their posts, and they either a) don't seem to care, or b) just aren't trying.




What it boils down to, and what Mac's pointing out, is that almost everybody a month or two down the road is in the second group, but a month or two down the road everyone in that group's RPing is bad. The older nations are still in that group, but much further down the road, and have progressed to the point where they're 'the veterans', 'the good RPers', 'the 03 nations', or whatever. Then they look down at the new people in the same group, not realizing they, too, were once like that.

I was once like that. April 03, I posted one sentence posts, and so did everyone else, because we were all at the same place. Nowadays, those same nations, including myself, are posting longer, more detailed posts. We're smarter, we're better writers, we tend to get along better OOC. The nice ones try and help out new nations as much as possible. The not-so-nice ones look down their noses and sneer at the one-sentence posts.

Takes all kinds.

I just now saw this and I agree with every bloody bit there is in there. Though, I must say that I never had once sentence war declarations, I did have at least a page or two at the minimum. Now a days, posts can get longer without having to go to multiple pages, such as the newer threads that you take a good ten to fifteen minutes reading. For example, my latest thread that I'm actually proud of, The Second Dephirian Civil Conflict. Sure the latest posts are a tad bit less lengthy, but they aren't one sentence posts saying "I just nuked your arse" (sorry! I can't do that weird crap you guys do..). Heh, I also take time to try and spell check...well, at least most of the time when I have no flippen idea. Otherwise I post and edit later.

The '03 class is rather good. '04 is also pretty good. Now, there are still a few of these people who look like good writters, but they do not really qualify for the second tier. I think some of you know who I am talking about. Anyway, you don't necessarily have to be a 'veteran' to be the best writer out there. Just pay attention to the rules of the game and try to keep your posts interesting. I'd rather skim through a good detailed post than read the same blasted sentence over and over again.

EX: "The Nation of [Enter Random Name Here] declares war on [Other Random Name Here]."

There is no reason behind the said war. All you have to go on is that one guy is attacking the other. I mean, yeah, it's straight and to the point, but it's not very detailed.

EX: "The nation of So-And-So declares war on JoeBlow for reason of expansion and we just don't like them."

Even though this has a reason, it's not a really good reason. Tell why you don't like them and what causes are behind your expansion.

Umm...I think I'd just better go before people start stoning me. I know I'm just average, but I am hoping to someday be that 'veteran' class!

(Nice post Haraki.)

I think the old nations are stop playing, but I wonder when the next die-hard awesome player (like AMF or Chronosia) will come onto NS
He's already here. *points at self*

Umm...I think I'd just better go before people start stoning me. I know I'm just average, but I am hoping to someday be that 'veteran' class!
Ah yes, the bane of new players. To desire greatness. When I was young, back in 2004 and 2005, I sought greatness myself; and I found it. What then? My name grew to be a symbol, and I began to resent and reject that symbol; for in my haste to become great I had acted in ways I began to regret later. But I could not shake it; I stopped posting for months, came back, and people still knew me. Now, older and wiser, I control this new nation; and seeking greatness will not be a mistake I make again.

Or something.

Anyway, the path to greatness is humility: to understand what you are, make what effort you are capable of, and stick around long enough for everyone to know you. Remember also that very few people ever leave the game, so if you weren't around in 2003 you're pretty much screwed because there will always be some die-hard 2003 player left to make you look like a n00b.

Well, I find the best way to RP a character is after you've done your troop movement and/or general reactions stuff. This is what I usually do just for fun and to develop my skills a little. There are some times when I realize I have messed up entirly on my RP, I wouldn't concider myself an old timer because Im not as active in the NS world as I am in the EII world of which I havn't been a member of for long. Basically it would boil down to if you have your basics right.

example being- Two nations are fighting a war, nation A and Nation B lets say these are the RP posts below.

A: My army comes in and begins to fight (Well we all know this is a bad RP post, one. Its not your army, its the nations army, and why would you use army which is primarily made out of infantry soldiers and basic ground forces IE wheres your navy and air force, wheres your military.)

B: Defense system goes online and begans to fire at the oncoming "Army". (Its small, but if this had discribed its defense sytems even this would work as the oncoming army would most likly be deploying by ground sence no air force or navy were specified)

I could go on for awhile but I dont think many people will read this, so my point is. Even with small posts you can be saying alot, so when you write that small one sentence post think about what you are writting down. Maybe even put it into a word document and just look at it, think about what the other person is going to say about it and think about your future actions because of this post.

Discription provides a picture, a picture is worth 1000 words. So try to put in those 1000 words.

The problem with the post is that it is too general and this gives no basis for an actual attack to be made. If you were going to attack an army it would be best to do it before they moved into your territory as suggested by player A. Therefore you've already cheated/godmodded your ability to move, logistical support and cross vast areas that maybe Player B has a perfect countermeasure to.

If player A is going to attack he should RP the build up of troops and movement. This movement should be watched and responded to by Player B. As things progress it is likely that Player A who is at war with Player B will likely see aerial raids and mass bombardment of supply depots, bases and fuel centers. This will surely cut off support.

Player A also must give the protections when Player B asks OOC or it should be considered that Player A has no aerial defense and air superiority is given to Player B for his movements. So both players have to be aware OOC and not ICly of each others defenses. The more technological a nation is the more careful the military should be, but rather this is not an excuse to figure out the conditions of how to IC attack, but how to IC respond to hidden (judged by Player B after Player A says how they are hidden).

Thus we have the initial war with a large description of defensive forces and movements. This means Player A will suffer major damage early on if a lack of defenses exist, but gives Player A the political power over the masses. This in turn will hurt Player B, but give military advantages over time. As Player A attacks and responds, Player B will also move and continue to build up.

Until both militaries face each other it should be assumed that first-strike capability and logistical attacks are not non-existant, but should be RPed by both as it is an effective and brillant move to stop the enemy before you even face them.

I am a small nation, but if I went to war I would maximize the distance between my nation and my targets nation and use that to its fullest potentional. Delaying the arrival of troops for up to a year or more while pinpointing the weaknesses and destroying my enemy from aerial bombardment. It never matters who has the larger army, but who has the supplies to move and win in this case. By not doing this both players are infact putting very little effort into war and it is as not serious as it should be.

When I first was new my posts were terrible, I've really improved the quality and length from the help of others on #draftroom with people like Praetonia, Questers, Whyatica helping me.

I think the worse thing is the older nations, don't set a good example with their short posts. Newbs need guidance, if anyone wants to come on IRC for help then join up and people will help there.

My stance on number-waking is this: You really need to specify numbers, but you also need more than that. You need to describe in detail what you're doing for a good read. It gets annoying when someone "launches many missiles" because you don't know how many you have to let through.

*wonders what people think of little Ezaltia*

When I first was new my posts were terrible,

"Were"? ;)

*ducks*

Anyway, Eralineta, remember that a) Deployments occur at the speed of plot. It's been conventionally agreed upon for years now; everyone is at most a few weeks away from the other by ship. b) If you are attempting to invade someone whose nation is many thousands of miles away, would you tell them? I would deploy my forces into international waters and keep them there; the nation I'm attacking wouldn't have any idea until the ships are right off their coast and my admiral flies over to hand-deliver the declaration of war because the e-mail is down. c) There is no perfect countermeasure; everything and anything can be defeated if you know how, even godrods or supercapital ships.

I'm one of those damn "noobs" but I try to be specific in my posts and make sense. There are some things that can be summed up in one sentence, like an OOC question, for example. If someone says, "The proud nation of X invades the dishonorable nation of Y with a huge military force," Then you could just reply with one or two short sentences: "OOC: How much? Please be more specific."

And to those old nostalgic NSers: Us "noobs" would appreciate a little less scorn. We're in the same place you used to be, and we're learning just like you are. Now, we might not write novels to introduce our posts, but we try (well, most of us do) and we're interested in getting better and improving. If you don't like something we do, please point it out to us because chances are it's annoying someone else too. If we're going to improve, we need as much help as we can get. And if you offer us help, we'll most likely take it. I don't think anyone here (except the trolls) really want to get worse. We all want to impprove, and any help from you "classic" players would be greatly appreciated.

When I first was new my posts were terrible, I've really improved the quality and length from the help of others on #draftroom with people like Praetonia, Questers, Whyatica helping me.

I think the worse thing is the older nations, don't set a good example with their short posts. Newbs need guidance, if anyone wants to come on IRC for help then join up and people will help there.

I remember my first posts, and I can safely say that they were BAD. Everyone improves, you just have to be willing to improve. I can say that a lot of newer nations do not seem like they are willing to take criticism or help for them to improve. Point in case, I remember trying to help a bunch of new nations by explaining logistics and such, but when I tried they got impatient and bitched at me. I think experiences like that, when older nations try to help newer ones, turns off the older guys from helping out the new guys. I can say that experience left a disdain for new nations; I haven't offered advice since.

Oh, here is something for everyone to laugh at AND to show that you can improve. (Again, enjoy the laughs I am providing)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9123855&postcount=186 (That was my writing about a year and quarter ago)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=523371 (Current Writing)

As you can see, the differences are huge. I was willing to learn though, and I got better with time.

On a side note, I would definitely be willing to assist newer nations improve their writing. Granted I am not the best on NS, but I always be willing to give some help for the overall benefit of improving I.I. writing. If any newer nation is willing, they can TG me.

/me ends rant.

Well whilst we're on the topic of helping the newer nations, can anyone help me?

The problem I have is that the longer the post I write the poorer the quality, I know why this is, I get bored with it, like halfway through something snaps and I just wanna do something else and the writing suffers, can anyone help?

Well whilst we're on the topic of helping the newer nations, can anyone help me?

The problem I have is that the longer the post I write the poorer the quality, I know why this is, I get bored with it, like halfway through something snaps and I just wanna do something else and the writing suffers, can anyone help?

If your getting uninterested in what your writing about, then it obviously isn't something you should write in then. You should find something you WANT to write about, and the urge to want to write will carry you through; at least, it does for me.

You can also write like two to three paragraphs about a different section of battle. As long as its well written, it will make the RP more interesting, and add dimension to it. If its well written, it will be longer, and more enjoyable to read.

Hell I can say that when I started in November 2003 I was an awful roleplayer and even up until mid to late 2004. Earth II was a real turning point for me and I've severely refined my roleplaying there and each day it gets better and better. The more I read too of other roleplays and what not also helps me improve my own roleplaying. I wouldn't say I'm the best or even in that category but I know that I've grown into a very strong and good roleplayer. You have too Mac, I can compare your earlier stuff with the newer stuff and there's a noticible change. In many of us "old" players you can see that there was a visible change as time goes on, it happens as we all mature. You are correct though, crucial to the point of growing in roleplaying is criticism. I do love good criticism (not baseless you suck stuff) but good criticism. That's how you learn, by challenges.

What I think needs to be stressed is proper writing. I mean grammar, spelling, and syntax. Please, I beg everyone, new and old, to profread your posts before you put them up because a post that is unintelligible will not get you any respect whatsoever and will often be dismissed. Also dispense with the 1337, it's beyond unintelligible.

Of course though, the best way to learn is to keep doing, keep roleplaying. Take the criticism, honestly look at it, and see what it's worth. If it's nonsense it's nonsense but usually, not all the time, constructive criticism is very good and based upon a lot of thinks.

OOC: Haven't read all 8 pages yet but I am :) so I apologize if I beat more dead horses. I don't think I have to mention wanking & godmodding, that's there, or the 1 post wars, build-ups, etc. Or the standard "your opinion is baseless so I will disregard it because it disagrees with mine."

Something good to add to your roleplays is the use of foreign languages (as foreign to English that is). I've been part of a number of RPs and I use it in my own as well where non-English is use and it adds a lot of depth (just don't forget to translate). For example, Cotland is Norwegian, North Germania is of Austrian descent, Saint Lazare is fluent in French and Italian and a ton else, Pushka is Russian, etc. Now normally inside of their respective countries, unless English is the language, their characters don't speak to each other in English. For me, since I own so much of Latin America, in Cuba you'll be speaking Spanish (albeit English & Spanish are spoke throughout my Empire). So why not have your characters speak to each other in their native tongues? Free Translation (http://www.freetranslation.com/) is a site that isn't going to give you a 100% accurate transaction but it'll give you something to work with (if you don't speak the language).

"La guerra está aquí. Ahora." [The war is here. Now.] The general said to his wife as he big her farewell. "Pronto, mi amor. Regresaré. Victorioso." [Soon, my love. I'll be back. Victorious.] He left her with a kiss on the cheek and a long embrace, the embrace of 50 years of marriage and many more to come. Tears flushed in her eyes, as they did everytime when he went off to lead the men. The vast, beautiful countryside awaited him and his men were willing. It was an honor to serve with him and the men would soon be shouting "Victorioso" themselves...

Now that's just a snippet but it adds depth to it. It's really fun to see that in an RP. Just please translate since English is the default language of NS.

If your getting uninterested in what your writing about, then it obviously isn't something you should write in then. You should find something you WANT to write about, and the urge to want to write will carry you through; at least, it does for me.

You can also write like two to three paragraphs about a different section of battle. As long as its well written, it will make the RP more interesting, and add dimension to it. If its well written, it will be longer, and more enjoyable to read.

Thanks man, i'll be sure to try that out sometime, great help dude.