NationStates Jolt Archive

You yourself said it. I want to attack you so badly because you majorly got on my nerves by complaining in a previous thread and haven't stopped. Not once have I seen you roleplay, and you still have the gall to "warn" me - someone much older gamewise and much more experienced in roleplaying than you - that what I'm doing is wrong. And like I said, I would send a force no bigger than yours to some theatre or another, I wouldn't be falling back on numbers.

You must be joking. I RP plenty and I use several threads to do so. Even now I am filling in my own threads with information as I lay the grounds for Eralineta. Any military you send will not survive if it was 1:1. Time is my only limiter for the amount I progress daily. I have barely begun my people thread and I am already rushing to produce the next 50 things ARM is set to produce this NS year.

If the forces I send will not survive, then there's no reason for you not to face me, is there? And yes, I've been roleplaying in some form or another for four years. Population of about 20 million people, say you have a military of 2.5%, that's a total of 450,000.

I cannot go by that number. As we are not conventional. You need to seriously stop putting barriers on me. You do not dictate what my nation does and what it must be like. I've told you time and time again.

You will be up against something far more brutal if you dare attack though. If you check the threads you'll know what it is.

That ridiculous ship you were describing?

2.5% is an accepted upper limit for a nation's military, it's the one I use, and going over that would cause economic problems, and that would give you a total of 450,000 men to do things with. Going over that would put you in trouble economically, and considering you're so new, this whole "new technology" claim sounds...well, bogus is the best word I can think of.

You have 12 millon people. And in most cases you can only put 2% of your pop into your army. Anymore will most likely kill your ecomeny. He's not putting barriers you. He telling what is generally accpected as a fact and rule of RP.

From the other thread:

Habakkuk is a silly design that wasn't built for sound technical reasons, foremost amongst them being the fact that the resulting ship would weigh so much that it would only manage low single digit knots and require active coolant systems just to keep it from melting. In any case, pykrete isn't very strong. Rifle bullets will penetrate a few inches of pykrete. A NS anti-ship missile or, worse, an SD shell or one of the ICBM-sized anti-ship missiles some people use would cause significant damage. Yes, the ship would be unsinkable, because pykrete floats, but that isn't the same thing as being operable or even in one piece.

Since the ship requires, as I have said, active cooling systems to stop the pykrete melting, a single torpedo hit throwing some of the generators off the walls would be enough to cause damage that would probably prove fatal, since the ice will melt inconsistently it will crack, causing large parts of the ship to sheer away. Not that you even need to break the thing up - directing fire at the flight deck will be just as damaging as against any other carrier, since the deck still needs to be level for planes to take off, and will still need catapults to be intact.

Except that making millions of tonnes of pykrete, running thousands of miles of coolant tubes through it and then building the equivalent of several powerstations inside whilst trying to stop the whole thing falling apart is going to make this thing many many times more expensive to build than a steel ship, with a hugely increased risk of complications.

What did I just say.

Also. Its 1%. Geniuses. Peacetime is 1%. HOWEVER, we are not you usual nation. Eralineta is a nation devoted to business and science. A home for the wayward scientists who have been ousted or unable to complete their work because of restrictions from their nations. Businesses can come and have low taxes and tons of support, Eralineta is not your usual nation. Don't treat it as one.

When I say I have no standing military, I mean it. Do not go putting numbers on me. I do not have a military or national defense. I do have Law and Order as my only real source of defense. Which means police.

The military is defined as ARM, MAM and MOM Corp. They are the ones who produce the weapons. They are the ones in control of the national heavy weapons. If anyone bothered to read the news report thread I did it was ARM who massacred the terrorist cell in Eralineta.

Standing POSSIBLE defenders.
ARM has - 2,000 ish personnel.
MAM has - 560 personnel.
MOM has - 1000 ish personnel.

Total possible defenders... 3560.

Police are much higher, but they really can't do too much as a whole and would suffer greatly. Worse...the three companies compete under Emperor Black. So you have three (all unifed as ARM though in the threads for Black giving the lead to ARM) businesses with no real troops. The military has to grow. Until a real threat happens Eralineta is much like the UAE. Rich and powerful only in business, but can be mowed down by an idiot with a battlion.

So you have NO standing military and would take a long time to actually get one...yet, you're quite happy running your mouth at people. The ironing, as they do indeed say, is quite delicious. Further, it's not "1% geniuses". We have a high military budget, we are a militaristic nation, it is not unreasonable to have a 2.5% military.

So this stops me from grinding your economy to a halt with 24/7 bombings via spaceplanes because...?

No economy = no war. If you don't have an income of weaponry or supplies, its only a matter of time til you've lost.

Probably because he'll ignore it. I'd wager that if I sent a ground force to his shores, he'd ignore that too regardless of how long I left for him to react.

So you have NO standing military and would take a long time to actually get one...yet, you're quite happy running your mouth at people. The ironing, as they do indeed say, is quite delicious. Further, it's not "1% geniuses". We have a high military budget, we are a militaristic nation, it is not unreasonable to have a 2.5% military.

NS wiki quite clearly states the opposite. Since you well...have no logisitics, I guess you forgot about that.

NS wiki quite clearly states the opposite. Since you well...have no logisitics, I guess you forgot about that.

Ah yes, the article I haven't updated since I got my hands on a detailed calculator. Since you were nice enough to point it out, I'll make the adjustments now.

Actually, Eralineta, you can use whatever military number you want. However, bear in mind that, say, 50% will get you a hunter-gatherer society. Generia, for example, a very experienced and talented RPer, uses 5%, I believe (can't remember if that's just wartime or not), because his economy is stable and powerful enough to withstand the hit. So use whatever number you want...just keep the consequences in mind, and remember that if you're going to use a number higher than around 2.5%, better have a good reason, cause people will challenge it.

About the 2.5% "limit" itself: It's a rule of thumb. Nobody is trying to enforce rules on you. YOU CAN RP WHATEVER YOU WANT. However, people DON'T have to RP with you if you have a 10% military with no economic side effects. Way, way back, people on NS decided to put realistic limits on this and went for it. These are rules of thumb, approximations, attempts at stability, call them what you will. You don't have to obey them, but bear in mind that everybody else does.

Peacetime is usually 1% also. It takes a massive strain to keep it at 2.5% still. I have a really small force, but that's just because of the company. It will take 2-3 more NS years before the board actually gets around to the military, but that is for pure OOC reasons of the time it takes to actually form and get a fighting force going AND the fact I have school and other things to do. Militaries just don't pop out of thin air.

Even then... 3 years would get green troops. I don't like the way people go to war so quickly without thinking of the time or consequences. Much like that statwank in the previous thread by another person. War is not convient or easy, its supposed to be something thoughtful.

Didn't answer the question. What stops us from bombing you to hell and stopping your economy in its tracks, and enacting a blockade so nohing can get past by sea?

Peacetime is usually 1% also. It takes a massive strain to keep it at 2.5% still. I have a really small force, but that's just because of the company. It will take 2-3 more NS years before the board actually gets around to the military, but that is for pure OOC reasons of the time it takes to actually form and get a fighting force going AND the fact I have school and other things to do. Militaries just don't pop out of thin air.

It does not take a massive strain to maintain a 2.5% military with a government that allocates funds towards that end, I feel I've been clear on this point.

Actually, Eralineta, you can use whatever military number you want. However, bear in mind that, say, 50% will get you a hunter-gatherer society. Generia, for example, a very experienced and talented RPer, uses 5%, I believe (can't remember if that's just wartime or not), because his economy is stable and powerful enough to withstand the hit. So use whatever number you want...just keep the consequences in mind, and remember that if you're going to use a number higher than around 2.5%, better have a good reason, cause people will challenge it.

About the 2.5% "limit" itself: It's a rule of thumb. Nobody is trying to enforce rules on you. YOU CAN RP WHATEVER YOU WANT. However, people DON'T have to RP with you if you have a 10% military with no economic side effects. Way, way back, people on NS decided to put realistic limits on this and went for it. These are rules of thumb, approximations, attempts at stability, call them what you will. You don't have to obey them, but bear in mind that everybody else does.


When mine actually gets going it will be quite strong because of the economic system already set up, but for the sake of all things more people = more costs. Going high-tech and keeping people down is probably the way Eralineta will fight.

For reference only, I would like to point out that during the First World War, Australia put 300,000 men in the field, from a male population of only 3 million...

That's 10% of the male population, and 5% of national. Just a thought.

What economic system? This thing with the three companies? That just sounds like a poor excuse to have a stupidly high percentage, I can't quite figure out how it would work.

What economic system? This thing with the three companies? That just sounds like a poor excuse to have a stupidly high percentage, I can't quite figure out how it would work.

My total military that is capable of combat is .0003% of my population. The three companies compete with each other for defense contracts over each other and production. Similar in a way Boeing and Pratt are rivals in winning Air Force contracts. A better product is made through competition. Though that doesn't mean I have a strong or capable military.

Ah yes, the article I haven't updated since I got my hands on a detailed calculator. Since you were nice enough to point it out, I'll make the adjustments now.

Would you mind linking me to that calculator?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=372637

One thread, full of calculators.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=372637

One thread, full of calculators.

gracious amigo.

Still vamping up for military action. Filling in critical information.

Until a real threat happens Eralineta is much like the UAE. Rich and powerful only in business, but can be mowed down by an idiot with a battlion.
Nonesense. The UAE has one of the most powerful armed forces in the middle east and some of its most advanced equipment, procured from the West.

OOC: Maybe because that would be a really d-bag thing to do? I understand what Eralineta is saying, and it makes perfect sense to me. Why you guys are trying to screw him over, I really don't know. Good job guys, what a welcome to the NS community: Threating a young nation who's just trying to be.

http://funnypics.free.fr/explorer/public/gifs/you%20suck%20ad-mormons.gif

OOC: Maybe because that would be a really d-bag thing to do? I understand what Eralineta is saying, and it makes perfect sense to me. Why you guys are trying to screw him over, I really don't know. Good job guys, what a welcome to the NS community: Threating a young nation who's just trying to be.

http://funnypics.free.fr/explorer/public/gifs/you%20suck%20ad-mormons.gif

When this "young nation who's just trying to be" complains about the way I do things - i.e. cutting out the "blah blah we send forces, forces deploy etc. etc. twelve pages of roleplaying without forces even going near one another" and skipping to the "forces on boats prepared to ruin shit" - then spends an ungodly amount of time OOC bitching, doing nothing in-character and producing a ship so steeped in techwanking that it would be an affront to God Himself, an older nation like me is liable to want to beat the piss out of the young nation. Hence, this thread.

You might think this is a douchebaggy thing to do, but IC I go about my business in a similar manner to AMF - fucking up everything that gets in our way - and considering that Eralineta is part of the Slave Trade Union, that constitutes getting in our way, hence the troop deployment. But what this really all boils down to is the current state of affairs - I want Eralineta to actually do something of substance rather than going on about their revolutionary economic system and amazing technology.

Eralineta: forgive me if this is in the wrong place but you do currently seem to preffer people not to post on your individual section threads (if this is not the case i shall move this msot to the relevant thread).

basically i would like to point out that 5.7x28mm FN is really not the sort of round you want your tanks' coaxial MGs to be firing. Just about all Rl tanks use a .30/7.62mm MG of some description as thier coax mainly because these weapons can be effective out to 1000m giving them enough range to engagement msot short range infantry atni tank weapons. 5.7x28mm stops being effective at about 200m or so well short of the 300m range of even simple RPGs.

And that is without taking into account the debatable usefulness of 5.7x28mm FN in the first place.

Very true. I'm glad you noticed that. However Eralineta suffers from a lack of combat experience or so to speak. Many of the tanks produced will not be sold. I've done several such creations that are well...dumb. Science is not infallable with people leading it.

However it sets a standard. No matter how poor of choice for actual REAL combat it is. ARM, MAM and MOM Corp have only had one engagement and it was a rousing success against a bunch of terrorists in an urban environment.

I do plan on upping the range and penetration power of the machine gun. I am actually looking at putting on a .50 cal and doing away with the .30/7.62mm. Though this is best used on lighter and more agile vehicles. Eralineta tanks are comparable to Russian T-80s and below. They are cheap, numerous and wonderfully effective....20 years ago. The next generation of tanks will ultimately turn these into cannon fodder.

However a role is reserved for these Main Battle Tanks. I'll get into that at a later date. When my funding of the project on Dr. Jhun is complete I'll have C2 class. C2 is considerably more modern. Though the actual Abrahams effectiveness of tanks won't be to the late MBT-50s. The MBT-21/22/23 is the main battle tank for the moment. The others are prototypes and trial productions, produced in very small numbers.

G2g... I'll post a follow up in a bit. Thanks for replying here.

Alright I'm back.

As for the ability of my nation to produce good weaponry it is restricted ICly for a time, but I assure you for small arms the 5.7 x 28 mm is an amazing round. Capable of piercing kevlar helmets and body armor, its a reason I chose this as the accepted round type in addition to the modernization of old technology.

Yes, for small arms. The machineguns of a tank arn't small arms.

About that % of pop in military. For peacetime <1% is good standard to avoid serious damage to economy(of course you can always have more but your economy will be weaker, N-Korea has about 5%). Olmedreca has less than 1% in armed forces at peacetime but in case of full mobilization(which practically will be never used unless homeland is invaded) it can raise over 5% and even higher, 10% would be achievable by cutting down equipment standards for units, this is of course without foreign economical aid, as extensive(and i mean really lots of it) foreign economical aid could allow mobilization up to 15%(of course only for limited time). It seems to me quite oftenly that people seem to forget to make difference between wartime and peacetime and want to keep their armies constantly mobilized which can be done but will result weaker economy and in the end you will be able to put on field considerably less troops then those who keep peacetimearmies small and fully mobilize only then it is really neccessary. Attempts to stay strong all the time will result weakness compared to those who gather their strenght only then actual fighting starts.

Alright I'm back.

As for the ability of my nation to produce good weaponry it is restricted ICly for a time, but I assure you for small arms the 5.7 x 28 mm is an amazing round. Capable of piercing kevlar helmets and body armor, its a reason I chose this as the accepted round type in addition to the modernization of old technology.

Well it is reasonable for side arms or paramilitary/special forces usage but as general issue, not even the most deluded scientist would suggest it for that

Eralineta, can you please check your TGs? Thanks.