NationStates Jolt Archive

For this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=521653) thread. Please put all OOC here.

Strator, I advise you stop your ooc bickering, you are mixing ooc and ic heavily which is not a good thing and highly frowned upon.

That topic was ruined by nearly two pages of spammy out of character posts.

FYI, the McPsychovillian force moving to Doomingsland is comprised of 1.2 million foot soldiers, accompanied by an unknown amount of Beast MBTs, Behemoth II HBTs, Impact MLRSs and Bull Warriors (unknown until I do the calculations required to figure out just how many would be a sensible amount).

Oh Strator I wasen't claiming that Dreadfire was invincible. I was claiming that he is not the kind of guy to get killed off by a few assasins. If you read up a little bit up on AMF's history you can see why.

THat was me. I posted on my puppet by mistake.

Strator, I advise you stop your ooc bickering, you are mixing ooc and ic heavily which is not a good thing and highly frowned upon.

That topic was ruined by nearly two pages of spammy out of character posts.

I'd have to agree with CP here, Strator. Besides, it is AMF's choice if he wants Dreadfire assassinated or whatever you are bickering about. His choice, and his alone.

This your puppet? or are you some random guy telling me somethign for that other random guy

I'd have to agree with CP here, Strator. Besides, it is AMF's choice if he wants Dreadfire assassinated or whatever you are bickering about. His choice, and his alone.

I know, but he cannot claim he is invincible as Zackaroth was doing for him, otherwise he can suicide bomb with a nuke and the come out alive (Which would be a sorta oxymoron)

I know, but he cannot claim he is invincible as Zackaroth was doing for him, otherwise he can suicide bomb with a nuke and the come out alive (Which would be a sorta oxymoron)

Figuring if anyone was able to rp perfectly gtettingh the nuke, getting into AMF with said nuke, getting close enough to kill Dreadfire, all of which require a hell of alot of high skill rping. You can't just go in and say you got the nuke and blew yourself up.

If none of you are planning to try to assassinate him, is it really productive to bicker about it? And if you are planning to try to assassinate him, shouldn't you be discussing this with AMF rather than with each other?

I know, but he cannot claim he is invincible as Zackaroth was doing for him, otherwise he can suicide bomb with a nuke and the come out alive (Which would be a sorta oxymoron)

So at least hes RP'ing it, your just acting like a child complaining about it 'ZOMG HE IZ NOT INVICIBLE!' AMF has built up his character over a long period of time, I think if someone wanted to kill him you would have to talk about it first.

I know that, it is just I thought that from Zackaroths posts, AMF would claim invincibility.

Actually, I think Dreadfire has died once or twice and come back to life. It shouldn't be that hard coming to some agreement with AMF on an assassination plan, but it would have to be DAMN good if you didn't want your assassins to end up in The Halls and your own nation put to the torch.

I dont think Damien's ever died... I know his son, Azreal, has once. But Damien made a deal with a demon and... yeah. You can tell where it went from there.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8592167&postcount=3

About halfway down the post, Damien dies.

FYI, the McPsychovillian force moving to Doomingsland is comprised of 1.2 million foot soldiers, accompanied by an unknown amount of Beast MBTs, Behemoth II HBTs, Impact MLRSs and Bull Warriors (unknown until I do the calculations required to figure out just how many would be a sensible amount).

The war between me and AMF is going to be closed one on one, just me and him.

I have been in contact with AMF. yes he has died once. And was resurrected by a dark preist. His death was by dissection and his body parts spread across the globe. He has already said he does want Dreadfire to die agian so I am talking to him about killing off some of his officials to help pressure him into letting the slave trade union continue.

Actually, I think Dreadfire has died once or twice and come back to life.

Hack had a priceless little comment about that in one of AMF's opinion threads, IIRC.

The war between me and AMF is going to be closed one on one, just me and him.

Goddammit. The nations in the union are pussies who won't actually fight, just whine about anything to avoid fighting, this is the only thing close to a war we had going.

Dont be to sure. I may come out of retirment just for this. I recently just refitted all my soldiers with better armor and new combat systems, while improving others. Plus my fleets of older, yet still very much combat worthy, vessels will be given to Strator.

2nd Talon Fleet:

300 DC-8 Talon Missile Arsenal ships
--Augmented with 4 H.A.E.S.B.'s ( High Altitude Emp SAM Batteries )
---Augmented with deep penetrating DOMar Sensory Equipment

300 DC-4 Resupply and support vessels
--Augmented with 4 H.A.E.S.B.'s ( High Altitude Emp SAM Batteries )
---Augmented with 8 GAU-88 Quad Valcan Galting anti-air/ anti-missile cannons

40 DC-99 Heavy Cruisers
--Augmented with 2 H.A.E.S.B.'s ( High Altitude Emp SAM Batteries )
---Augmented with 8 GAU-88 Quad Valcan Galting anti-air/ anti-missile cannons

40 DC-00 Under-Raven Attack Subs
--Augmented with a EMP torpedo Arsenal
---Augmented with deep penetrating DOMar Sensory Equipment
----Augmented with 6 Intra-CBMs- Load out is 2 nuclear/ 4 Nemesis-9 strain x Virus Biological weapon

20 DC-88 Strike Raven Carriers
--Augmented with 4 H.A.E.S.B.'s ( High Altitude Emp SAM Batteries )
---Augmented with deep penetrating DOMar Sensory Equipment
----Augmented with 50 Orca Transport Dropships/ Attack gunships

10 DC-10 Strike Raven Carriers
--Augmented with 4 H.A.E.S.B.'s ( High Altitude Emp SAM Batteries )
---Augmented with deep penetrating DOMar Sensory Equipment
----Augmented with 50 -F-00 Raven Air superiority Fighters

60 DC-70 Torpedo Ships
--Augmented with 4 H.A.E.S.B.'s ( High Altitude Emp SAM Batteries )
---Augmented with deep penetrating DOMar Sensory Equipment

This is the base make up for a Raven fleet I plan to give Strator 2 of these fleets.

Dont be to sure. I may come out of retirment just for this. I recently just refitted all my soldiers with better armor and new combat systems, while improving others. Plus my fleets of older, yet still very much combat worthy, vessels will be given to Strator.

2nd Talon Fleet:

300 DC-8 Talon Missile Arsenal ships
--Augmented with 4 H.A.E.S.B.'s ( High Altitude Emp SAM Batteries )
---Augmented with deep penetrating DOMar Sensory Equipment

300 DC-4 Resupply and support vessels
--Augmented with 4 H.A.E.S.B.'s ( High Altitude Emp SAM Batteries )
---Augmented with 8 GAU-88 Quad Valcan Galting anti-air/ anti-missile cannons

40 DC-99 Heavy Cruisers
--Augmented with 2 H.A.E.S.B.'s ( High Altitude Emp SAM Batteries )
---Augmented with 8 GAU-88 Quad Valcan Galting anti-air/ anti-missile cannons

40 DC-00 Under-Raven Attack Subs
--Augmented with a EMP torpedo Arsenal
---Augmented with deep penetrating DOMar Sensory Equipment
----Augmented with 6 Intra-CBMs- Load out is 2 nuclear/ 4 Nemesis-9 strain x Virus Biological weapon

20 DC-88 Strike Raven Carriers
--Augmented with 4 H.A.E.S.B.'s ( High Altitude Emp SAM Batteries )
---Augmented with deep penetrating DOMar Sensory Equipment
----Augmented with 50 Orca Transport Dropships/ Attack gunships

10 DC-10 Strike Raven Carriers
--Augmented with 4 H.A.E.S.B.'s ( High Altitude Emp SAM Batteries )
---Augmented with deep penetrating DOMar Sensory Equipment
----Augmented with 50 -F-00 Raven Air superiority Fighters

60 DC-70 Torpedo Ships
--Augmented with 4 H.A.E.S.B.'s ( High Altitude Emp SAM Batteries )
---Augmented with deep penetrating DOMar Sensory Equipment

This is the base make up for a Raven fleet I plan to give Strator 2 of these fleets.

Of course, one has to wonder if he has the men to man them.

Most of the Raven ships are minimal crew required, exept for the Under Ravens and the Strike Raven Carriers. So it may strech his military out. Of sourse I do I a large number of older converted soldiers that I could give to him to be used on the ships.

-Converted Soldiers = are civilians who where captured and brainwashed with the help of neural implants to serve the Corporation. This is how I took some many nations. I used a small force to capture their own populace and use them as may soldiers instead of wasting my SF troopers.

Goddammit. The nations in the union are pussies who won't actually fight, just whine about anything to avoid fighting, this is the only thing close to a war we had going.

Agreed. Ye gods, am I the only one who shows backbone? The one inexperienced at modern tech warfare?

Hell I was going to outwardly outlaw the slave trade, but still have people go missing so my leader can still have the usual active disdain for the idea of humans (or any creature not of his species, for that matter) as anything more than sources of entertainment and food. ... And show that disdain in a way which would probaby piss off the Anti-Slavers even more. ("To show you my good will, I shall send you this sculpture I created using three slavers and three slaves, to show you that humans are humans. Be sure to keep it refrigerated.")

But now? ... Well we need ONE nation out there with balls. (The fact that there are quite a few newbloods doesn't help.) What's a good fleet size for a six-and-a-half-billion pop nation with an ungodly high amount of military spending? I ask because I know my FT approach of "pour my defense budget into a small number of super-advanced, super-massive warships" doesn't fly here on Earth. Hey, it's a battle I'm sure to lose, but someone has to be on the ass end of the ass kicking...

So come on down to Earthfall Island if AMF won't share his meat. I'll get a draft written up on the condition two characters can slip away. (Capturing one would bring in a non-MT element anyway.) The civillians will surrender easily enough, but the army will go down fighting.

Whaddya say? A good enough sacrificial lamb? I wouldn't want to give you gentlemen (assuming, at least) a poor fight, would I?

This (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=521882) is of relevance.

Agreed. Ye gods, am I the only one who shows backbone? The one inexperienced at modern tech warfare?

Hell I was going to outwardly outlaw the slave trade, but still have people go missing so my leader can still have the usual active disdain for the idea of humans (or any creature not of his species, for that matter) as anything more than sources of entertainment and food. ... And show that disdain in a way which would probaby piss off the Anti-Slavers even more. ("To show you my good will, I shall send you this sculpture I created using three slavers and three slaves, to show you that humans are humans. Be sure to keep it refrigerated.")

But now? ... Well we need ONE nation out there with balls. (The fact that there are quite a few newbloods doesn't help.) What's a good fleet size for a six-and-a-half-billion pop nation with an ungodly high amount of military spending? I ask because I know my FT approach of "pour my defense budget into a small number of super-advanced, super-massive warships" doesn't fly here on Earth. Hey, it's a battle I'm sure to lose, but someone has to be on the ass end of the ass kicking...

... And I wouldn't want to give you gentlemen (assuming, at least) a poor fight, would I?

Fleet size? God knows, our fleets are a glorified Coastguard, only ever used for troop transport and escorting. Which side of this war are you on, pro or anti slavery? If it's the former, I'd be glad to drop the gloves and do the two-fisted tango with you guys. Also, dammit I showed balls being willing to take on the entire slave trade union! Bloody freeks stole my thunder!

Fleet size? God knows, our fleets are a glorified Coastguard, only ever used for troop transport and escorting. Which side of this war are you on, pro or anti slavery? If it's the former, I'd be glad to drop the gloves and do the two-fisted tango with you guys. Also, dammit I showed balls being willing to take on the entire slave trade union! Bloody freeks stole my thunder!

Aye, damn Freeks! I hereby challenge AMF to a torture-off! You, me, and two criminals!

And I'm a slaver nation. An island-bound slaver nation, so my navy is sort of important. But, for the sake of story, I can deus ex machina something to get some ground forces ashore for some fighting in the streets.

McPsychoville was declaring war on slaver nations before it was cool!:p

McPsychoville was declaring war on slaver nations before it was cool!:p

Yeah we were! High five!

Well if Doomingsland wins current fight of giants with AMF then you may engage him directly;)

McPsychoville was declaring war on slaver nations before it was cool!:p



And Pantera and AMF were leading anti-slaver crusades before McPsychoville and much of the current I.I. population were even around. ;)

And Pantera and AMF were leading anti-slaver crusades before McPsychoville and much of the current I.I. population were even around. ;)

Shh, your logic has no place here.

Besides, I was glassing worlds in FT before... uhh... you made the above post! So there!

... Torture-off... Challenge... Ect...

And Pantera and AMF were leading anti-slaver crusades before McPsychoville and much of the current I.I. population were even around. ;)

...damn you and your relentless logic. Damn it to the extent you can damn a genocidal maniac

I am just waiting for The end of the war so that I can take what is left of both sides.

I am just waiting for The end of the war so that I can take what is left of both sides.

Thats a joke right? A funny? A haha?

Thats a joke right? A funny? A haha?

Either that or he's blissfully unaware of the various alliances they're both in.

I am just waiting for The end of the war so that I can take what is left of both sides.

Wouldn't it be more sensible to just observe, and perhaps learn a few pieces of RPing etiquette, Hat? Perhaps contribute a news article or two the Media thread, and not interfere and raise the possibility of being flamed again?

Just an attempt to cut off the flaming before it begins.

Thats a joke right? A funny? A haha?


Nope, I am takeing my time and waiting to see who wins this one.

I am betting on AMF.:cool:

Nope, I am takeing my time and waiting to see who wins this one.

I am betting on AMF.:cool:

.....So if AMF wins you would attack AMF or Dooming? You realize that this would set off a war no one could ever win because the allies these guys have could out number your armies by....alot.

I know an equally large group of nations that would be willing to crush AMF, apparently some old enmity between these 6 Bil nations exist. So far I know 2 6 Bils. 1 five Bil. 2 1 Bils and a few others that have more then enough power to flatten AMF into nothingness. Though like an evil mastermind we don't put all our chips down until the final round.

I doubt Hataria would stand much of a chance against either country, war-shattered or not.

I know an equally large group of nations that would be willing to crush AMF, apparently some old enmity between these 6 Bil nations exist. So far I know 2 6 Bils. 1 five Bil. 2 1 Bils and a few others that have more then enough power to flatten AMF into nothingness. Though like an evil mastermind we don't put all our chips down until the final round.

Or you're not mentioning names because these nations couldn't roleplay their way out of a wet paper bag. I like my theory better.

I know an equally large group of nations that would be willing to crush AMF, apparently some old enmity between these 6 Bil nations exist. So far I know 2 6 Bils. 1 five Bil. 2 1 Bils and a few others that have more then enough power to flatten AMF into nothingness. Though like an evil mastermind we don't put all our chips down until the final round.

Sorry if I'm not scared.

Whoever these nations are, they are more than welcome to show me what they've got. My shores are always open.

Or you're not mentioning names because these nations couldn't roleplay their way out of a wet paper bag. I like my theory better.

One is one of the most Powerful MT nations. One the most powerful guerrila tactics. The rest are decent. One has ceased to exist. Poor Asbena, Asbena still is active on the off-site boards, but would have to redo the nation posts. By my estimates Asbena is at least 5 Bil and I can't see any reason to not call him in.

The first - High power pinpoint Weaponry
The second - Stealth and sneak attacks (needs lots of OOC permission)
The third - Much like the second nation. (Asbena) Needs tons of OOC permission to.
The fourth - Standard.
The fifth - Standard.
Me - High research, but no military. When we mature we'll be one of the most powerful nations though by technology in MT.

I know an equally large group of nations that would be willing to crush AMF, apparently some old enmity between these 6 Bil nations exist. So far I know 2 6 Bils. 1 five Bil. 2 1 Bils and a few others that have more then enough power to flatten AMF into nothingness. Though like an evil mastermind we don't put all our chips down until the final round.

As opposed to Ghogolth? Two nine billions. Several eight, seven, and six billions, etc. And that's a fact that can be easily checked, as opposed to yours...

http://www.nationstates.net/96726/page=display_region/region=gholgoth

One is one of the most Powerful MT nations. One the most powerful guerrila tactics. The rest are decent. One has ceased to exist. Poor Asbena, Asbena still is active on the off-site boards, but would have to redo the nation posts. By my estimates Asbena is at least 5 Bil and I can't see any reason to not call him in.

The first - High power pinpoint Weaponry
The second - Stealth and sneak attacks (needs lots of OOC permission)
The third - Much like the second nation. (Asbena) Needs tons of OOC permission to.
The fourth - Standard.
The fifth - Standard.
Me - High research, but no military. When we mature we'll be one of the most powerful nations though by technology in MT.

Most powerful nation when you mature? I think you're missing that be powerful, you have to roleplay well. So forgive me if I follow the Freekish example and don't need a new change in underwear. As I believe Scott Hall, formerly of WWF and WCW said, don't sing it, bring it.

Sorry if I'm not scared.

Whoever these nations are, they are more than welcome to show me what they've got. My shores are always open.

Well...that means only ONE can even muster an attack. I know the 2nd and 3rd have no real navy. The fourth and fifth...use WWII ships. I have only jet skis as a defense.

Though...I do remember something about Habbaduk or whatever. The 2nd nation uses these things like crazy and I don't even know how they work. Though something of 400 of them in a line make for the almost perfect weapon and defense. The ships span over 600 miles of deck. They are supremely heavily armored and have enough weapons to knock out anything within 3000 miles in the air and 500 miles underwater. I've seen them mow down entire cargo docks and cleave through aircraft carriers like they were balsa wood boats. One smashed through a super dreadnaught while it was still firing at it. Though a dreadnaught it tough to sink, it slammed into it and broke all the decks the hull and everything inside, just exploded and sunk. Then the ship continued on.

I doubt even AMF has enough firepower to destroy them, as they cannot literally be sunk by the laws of physics.

Well...that means only ONE can even muster an attack. I know the 2nd and 3rd have no real navy. The fourth and fifth...use WWII ships. I have only jet skis as a defense.

Though...I do remember something about Habbaduk or whatever. The 2nd nation uses these things like crazy and I don't even know how they work. Though something of 400 of them in a line make for the almost perfect weapon and defense. The ships span over 600 miles of deck. They are supremely heavily armored and have enough weapons to knock out anything within 3000 miles in the air and 500 miles underwater. I've seen them mow down entire cargo docks and cleave through aircraft carriers like they were balsa wood boats. One smashed through a super dreadnaught while it was still firing at it. Though a dreadnaught it tough to sink, it slammed into it and broke all the decks the hull and everything inside, just exploded and sunk. Then the ship continued on.

I doubt even AMF has enough firepower to destroy them, as they cannot literally be sunk by the laws of physics.

...I can't believe you're actually taken that seriously. No nation in the world will accept that as anything other than a quite ridiculous godmod. I would say try again, but your arguments thus far have been absolutely pathetic. Like I said, rather than going "oh my allies could kick your ass without breaking a sweat", put up yourself. Hell, you can go up against my puppet if you want.

Well, mere minutes ago you were preaching about "equally large group of nations that would be willing to crush AMF", but now you say that only 1 can muster an attack? If these nations you speak of are truely willing to "crush" me, then as I said before, they are welcome to try.

Most powerful nation when you mature? I think you're missing that be powerful, you have to roleplay well. So forgive me if I follow the Freekish example and don't need a new change in underwear. As I believe Scott Hall, formerly of WWF and WCW said, don't sing it, bring it.

I have already RPed the introduction to powerful technology that is at the forefront of today's technology. It is not my responsiblity to shove what you don't know about down your throat. I just did a little stunt about my stealthed guards yesterday as an intro. Project Leto is finished. Though Leto may be done it is just a start. You have to keep an eye on my posts as I research faster then most companies. Eralineta is a nation for all wayward scientists and businesses seeking low taxes and money is at an all-time high. What was banned or heavily restricted and now open and encouraged.

Seriously, who's going to oppose increasing crop nutriation systems!? Who's going to oppose the research of damascus steel for historical purposes?! Who the hell is going to stop my military from using a jet ski with a .50 cal gun!? Beware the ability of lax business laws and an encouragement on science.'

(Also...some of the best (least best that I know of) food rations for people are going to soon be open for purchase in our upcoming storefront. Ya...that's right. Self-heating rations that taste wonderful and have been continuously researched to be better and better with more vitamins! I expect troops to last 10% longer then other MREs and have better rational attitudes from higher doses of nutrition. It may not be much, but its practical and the success of any army is in logistics!)

I have already RPed the introduction to powerful technology that is at the forefront of today's technology. It is not my responsiblity to shove what you don't know about down your throat. I just did a little stunt about my stealthed guards yesterday as an intro. Project Leto is finished. Though Leto may be done it is just a start. You have to keep an eye on my posts as I research faster then most companies. Eralineta is a nation for all wayward scientists and businesses seeking low taxes and money is at an all-time high. What was banned or heavily restricted and now open and encouraged.

Seriously, who's going to oppose increasing crop nutriation systems!? Who's going to oppose the research of damascus steel for historical purposes?! Who the hell is going to stop my military from using a jet ski with a .50 cal gun!? Beware the ability of lax business laws and an encouragement on science.'

(Also...some of the best (least best that I know of) food rations for people are going to soon be open for purchase in our upcoming storefront. Ya...that's right. Self-heating rations that taste wonderful and have been continuously researched to be better and better with more vitamins! I expect troops to last 10% longer then other MREs and have better rational attitudes from higher doses of nutrition. It may not be much, but its practical and the success of any army is in logistics!)

Being polite here, but this RP has the potential to be the best II has seen for...well, let's face it, some time. How about starting a new thread for your challenge against AMF?

...I can't believe you're actually taken that seriously. No nation in the world will accept that as anything other than a quite ridiculous godmod. I would say try again, but your arguments thus far have been absolutely pathetic. Like I said, rather than going "oh my allies could kick your ass without breaking a sweat", put up yourself. Hell, you can go up against my puppet if you want.

At least one of the creations have been RPed on this board. These ships are MT-capable and are not godmods in any form. They are cheap, heavily armed and armored. Unless you directly hit them with nukes you will not cause major damage. The ships need to be COMPLETELY destroyed or so greatly punctured that the ship is unable to commence any attack at all. Even bombing runs that drop cluster bombs would still prove ineffective to preventing aircraft launches. Basically...nothing can take them out in MT except nukes.

At least one of the creations have been RPed on this board. These ships are MT-capable and are not godmods in any form. They are cheap, heavily armed and armored. Unless you directly hit them with nukes you will not cause major damage. The ships need to be COMPLETELY destroyed or so greatly punctured that the ship is unable to commence any attack at all. Even bombing runs that drop cluster bombs would still prove ineffective to preventing aircraft launches. Basically...nothing can take them out in MT except nukes.

Basically, nothing can take them out in MT except nukes.

Ladies, gentlemen, the definition of a godmod. Something that cannot be taken down by conventional means and requires a NUCLEAR FUCKING MISSILE to do it.

Well...that means only ONE can even muster an attack. I know the 2nd and 3rd have no real navy. The fourth and fifth...use WWII ships. I have only jet skis as a defense.

Though...I do remember something about Habbaduk or whatever. The 2nd nation uses these things like crazy and I don't even know how they work. Though something of 400 of them in a line make for the almost perfect weapon and defense. The ships span over 600 miles of deck. They are supremely heavily armored and have enough weapons to knock out anything within 3000 miles in the air and 500 miles underwater. I've seen them mow down entire cargo docks and cleave through aircraft carriers like they were balsa wood boats. One smashed through a super dreadnaught while it was still firing at it. Though a dreadnaught it tough to sink, it slammed into it and broke all the decks the hull and everything inside, just exploded and sunk. Then the ship continued on.

I doubt even AMF has enough firepower to destroy them, as they cannot literally be sunk by the laws of physics.


You've seen them? I think not. Six hundered miles of deck? That's not a ship. That's a floating fortress. Completely different thing, with different tactics. Soons suspciously like tech wank to me in any case.

Incidentally, you may be interested to now that the nation of Asbena no longer exists, and, unless I'm mistaken the population of a nation does not increase while it is inactive. So, according to my calculations, its population is whatever it was before it ceased being inactive.

At least one of the creations have been RPed on this board. These ships are MT-capable and are not godmods in any form. They are cheap, heavily armed and armored. Unless you directly hit them with nukes you will not cause major damage. The ships need to be COMPLETELY destroyed or so greatly punctured that the ship is unable to commence any attack at all. Even bombing runs that drop cluster bombs would still prove ineffective to preventing aircraft launches. Basically...nothing can take them out in MT except nukes.
Next time on Tech Wankers!

Sorry to bump in here, but isn't it true that a ship can only be so long before its torn apart? I think 600 miles is way over that.

You've seen them? I think not. Six hundered miles of deck? That's not a ship. That's a floating fortress. Completely different thing, with different tactics. Soons suspciously like tech wank to me in any case.

Incidentally, you may be interested to now that the nation of Asbena no longer exists, and, unless I'm mistaken the population of a nation does not increase while it is inactive. So, according to my calculations, its population is whatever it was before it ceased being inactive.

Six Hundred freaking MILES!!?

Six Hundred freaking MILES!!?

Ladies and gentlemen, the Floating Nation. Costs 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 USD apiece; who'll start the bidding?

EDIT: On a related note, the Imperium is sad 'cause Dreadfire ignored it. :(

I'll bid one uberdollar. That's worth1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 time ten to the thirty second dollars.

Sorry to bump in here, but isn't it true that a ship can only be so long before its torn apart? I think 600 miles is way over that.

The ships are 1.5 miles long each. If they move in a line that's 600 miles of possible deck. Like a train on the sea instead of on tracks. This allows non-stop flights of bombers (very heavy bombers) to land and refuel or get reloaded up. Though the original purpose of the real ship was to having a floating airfield to simply refuel as they crossed the ocean. Making range no longer an issue when dealing with airplanes on journeys. (for the most part).

Zackaroth, I assure you. They are not a tech wank by any means. I've even seen the crap myself irl. The stuff would not break apart. I hit it with a hammer and no damage... Throwing it on the ground...no damage. Hitting it with a car...minor damage on the edges. Stabbing with a screwdriver...only fragments. Other tests by other people show it is strong against bullets and even AP rounds. The bullets sink in and leave about 2 inch holes in unpacked form. When heavily concentrated a bullet deflected and nicked one of the guys in the leg. Its as hard as cement. But bunker busters and bombs have a hard time doing damage. As they are up against a solid mass (measured in feet), not several inches of material. The test is similar to a firecracker on a sidewalk. Minor damage, but nothing worth mentioning.

Enough on this tangent...let's get back to the issue at hand please. :O

The ships are 1.5 miles long each. If they move in a line that's 600 miles of possible deck. Like a train on the sea instead of on tracks. This allows non-stop flights of bombers (very heavy bombers) to land and refuel or get reloaded up. Though the original purpose of the real ship was to having a floating airfield to simply refuel as they crossed the ocean. Making range no longer an issue when dealing with airplanes on journeys. (for the most part).

Zackaroth, I assure you. They are not a tech wank by any means. I've even seen the crap myself irl. The stuff would not break apart. I hit it with a hammer and no damage... Throwing it on the ground...no damage. Hitting it with a car...minor damage on the edges. Stabbing with a screwdriver...only fragments. Other tests by other people show it is strong against bullets and even AP rounds. The bullets sink in and leave about 2 inch holes in unpacked form. When heavily concentrated a bullet deflected and nicked one of the guys in the leg. Its as hard as cement. But bunker busters and bombs have a hard time doing damage. As they are up against a solid mass (measured in feet), not several inches of material. The test is similar to a firecracker on a sidewalk. Minor damage, but nothing worth mentioning.

Enough on this tangent...let's get back to the issue at hand please. :O

Claiming you saw something IRL =/= proof much in the same way that minor from a car =/= proof against anything short of nukes. If you're going to claim you can use something like this, source it.

This RP is going to be so epic that Dethklok will have to do the soundtrack. >.>

Habakkuk is a silly design that wasn't built for sound technical reasons, foremost amongst them being the fact that the resulting ship would weigh so much that it would only manage low single digit knots and require active coolant systems just to keep it from melting. In any case, pykrete isn't very strong. Rifle bullets will penetrate a few inches of pykrete. A NS anti-ship missile or, worse, an SD shell or one of the ICBM-sized anti-ship missiles some people use would cause significant damage. Yes, the ship would be unsinkable, because pykrete floats, but that isn't the same thing as being operable or even in one piece.

Since the ship requires, as I have said, active cooling systems to stop the pykrete melting, a single torpedo hit throwing some of the generators off the walls would be enough to cause damage that would probably prove fatal, since the ice will melt inconsistently it will crack, causing large parts of the ship to sheer away. Not that you even need to break the thing up - directing fire at the flight deck will be just as damaging as against any other carrier, since the deck still needs to be level for planes to take off, and will still need catapults to be intact.

Except that making millions of tonnes of pykrete, running thousands of miles of coolant tubes through it and then building the equivalent of several powerstations inside whilst trying to stop the whole thing falling apart is going to make this thing many many times more expensive to build than a steel ship, with a hugely increased risk of complications.

And Pantera and AMF were leading anti-slaver crusades before McPsychoville and much of the current I.I. population were even around. ;)
The Envoy was around in the days of Lord Automagfreek, and confirms this.
Sorry to bump in here, but isn't it true that a ship can only be so long before its torn apart? I think 600 miles is way over that.
I don't think a ship could make it much over 1-2 miles before being torn apart.... and even those would be able to travel at very slow speeds, absent fusion reactors which are PMT anyway.

Yes, I'm dropping in my 2p in threads that don't concern me in the slightest. W00t.

-- Envoy of the Nova.

This RP is going to be so epic that Dethklok will have to do the soundtrack. >.>

SECONDED!

Claiming you saw something IRL =/= proof much in the same way that minor from a car =/= proof against anything short of nukes. If you're going to claim you can use something like this, source it.

Simple physics my good man. We are dealing with something that is over a thousand feet wide, with over 400 ft of 'armor'. I don't think he'd be afraid. Unconventional ship against conventional weapons that work entirely on a different set of goals is NOT what the weapons people research do. They are going to be protected and heavily armed. Its a matter of attrition I guess...and for one...their striking range and power is directly proportional to the number of ships present thanks to a global network system. Its directly able to utilize and expand on OTHERs. Everything was modular and expandable...and so was the weaponry and technology.

Your problem lies in being able to destroy it while it will be using borrowed technology that gives them super-fast and all-seeing information on a nearly indestructable weapon with huge striking range and defense capabilities. The number of nations that can bypass them has got to be few. I hope one day to build them myself infact.

Simple physics my good man. We are dealing with something that is over a thousand feet wide, with over 400 ft of 'armor'. I don't think he'd be afraid. Unconventional ship against conventional weapons that work entirely on a different set of goals is NOT what the weapons people research do. They are going to be protected and heavily armed. Its a matter of attrition I guess...and for one...their striking range and power is directly proportional to the number of ships present thanks to a global network system. Its directly able to utilize and expand on OTHERs. Everything was modular and expandable...and so was the weaponry and technology.

Your problem lies in being able to destroy it while it will be using borrowed technology that gives them super-fast and all-seeing information on a nearly indestructable weapon with huge striking range and defense capabilities. The number of nations that can bypass them has got to be few. I hope one day to build them myself infact.

Hey! Here's an idea - why not take this to another thread?

Simple physics my good man. We are dealing with something that is over a thousand feet wide, with over 400 ft of 'armor'. I don't think he'd be afraid. Unconventional ship against conventional weapons that work entirely on a different set of goals is NOT what the weapons people research do. They are going to be protected and heavily armed. Its a matter of attrition I guess...and for one...their striking range and power is directly proportional to the number of ships present thanks to a global network system. Its directly able to utilize and expand on OTHERs. Everything was modular and expandable...and so was the weaponry and technology.

Your problem lies in being able to destroy it while it will be using borrowed technology that gives them super-fast and all-seeing information on a nearly indestructable weapon with huge striking range and defense capabilities. The number of nations that can bypass them has got to be few. I hope one day to build them myself infact.

It's actually easy to destroy such a ship. Its called the IGNORE cannon.

Hey! Here's an idea - why not take this to another thread?


This.

This.

On the actual thread: Will ye be making any posts in the Media thread?

Does AMF even have any media that isn't Dreadfire?

On the actual thread: Will ye be making any posts in the Media thread?

Does AMF even have any media that isn't Dreadfire?

Yeah, there will be updates from AMF News and various other outlets.

It's actually easy to destroy such a ship. Its called the IGNORE cannon.

I don't think you can ignore them fairly at least. That would like be ignoring a superdreadnaught. You play the game you accept the whatever is reasonable and possible within the timeline and money costs. Both of these are met and the technology base is old. I would see no reason to ignore them.

I don't think you can ignore them fairly at least. That would like be ignoring a superdreadnaught. You play the game you accept the whatever is reasonable and possible within the timeline and money costs. Both of these are met and the technology base is old. I would see no reason to ignore them.

Except, as we've all pointed out, it is a tech wank.

while it will be using borrowed technology that gives them super-fast and all-seeing information on a nearly indestructable weapon with huge striking range and defense capabilities.

And that's tech wank on a ridiculous level.

Hey! Here's an idea - why not take this to another thread?
*cough*

Yeah, there will be updates from AMF News and various other outlets.

Excellent, excellent...

Also, geez. Tech stuff. Another thread. Comprende?

Except, as we've all pointed out, it is a tech wank.



And that's tech wank on a ridiculous level.

A very common and less offensive form of wank. It is abuse of high technology, either to break the laws of reality , or to enforce adherence to minutiae on an RP not concerned with technicalities of combat systems.

In general NS, most people are not technophiles, and will become irked when you proceed to explain to them exactly how your 8mm Tungsten-Carbide, Armor-Piercing, Fin-Stabilized, Discarding-Sabot fletchette firing assault rifles are perfectly designed to penetrate their mere level three kevlar vests. This would be considered wank because most players would not know about the benefits of TC/DU APFSDS Fletchettes, and would negate their infantry armor. This is NOT a godmode, however, since it does not change the rules of reality or break the roleplay. (And yes, I used my own weapon as an example of wank. It's the SAG ACR, if you want to know.)

However, announcing that, because your opponent only claimed to use "RPGs" on your tank, it did no damage (since the RPG-7 is incapable of piercing the glacis plate of a Main Battle Tank, and your opponent did not use an RPG-29 specifically) is tech wank AND a godmode, because it allows you to ignore their attack, and take no damage. Most players couldn't tell an RPG-7 from an SA-2, and they had the right idea (firing rockets at a tank), but not the intrinsic knowledge of weapons. In this case, assume that they are using the correct weapon.

I see no issue. Either that or your definition of tech-wank is clearly off. Though...I do not have much to talk about with a guy who forgets to RP his actions sensibly and skips right to the (my fleet is in your waters) part. That kinda godmodding is really unbecoming and I warned you once about your abuse of time and legalities. I think you need a nice long look at the stickies and accompanying information in NSwiki.

Seriously people actually like to play realistically when going to war. AMF I know actually uses the information and doesn't revert it to a mundane form of RP chess.

I see no issue. Either that or your definition of tech-wank is clearly off. Though...I do not have much to talk about with a guy who forgets to RP his actions sensibly and skips right to the (my fleet is in your waters) part. That kinda godmodding is really unbecoming and I warned you once about your abuse of time and legalities. I think you need a nice long look at the stickies and accompanying information in NSwiki.

Seriously people actually like to play realistically when going to war. AMF I know actually uses the information and doesn't revert it to a mundane form of RP chess.

I see an issue when it gets tech that would allow it to go superfast and know everything. You clearly have no idea about godmodding. And once again, please stop hiding behind "the rules" and actually face me one-on-one in a roleplay situation. Hell, I will deliberately only send a small force so the odds are about even.

How's about we make those two the last posts on tech, 'mkay?

Fine. The new issue at hand is how Eralineta hides behind complaints and conjecture because he/she cannot roleplay. Please, PLEASE prove me wrong.

I see an issue when it gets tech that would allow it to go superfast and know everything. You clearly have no idea about godmodding. And once again, please stop hiding behind "the rules" and actually face me one-on-one in a roleplay situation. Hell, I will deliberately only send a small force so the odds are about even.

Your assumptions of the speed is childish. I know that is infact very slow. Hence why I didn't include him as a possible attacker. Though absolute defense is definately up that alley.

Why do you want to attack me so badly? You clearly do not know my nation and I am still building up the RP background, but apparently you don't bother to check that. I have no military listed yet, but I have definately done the research for them. ARM just began rolling off arms yesterday.

Fine. The new issue at hand is how Eralineta hides behind complaints and conjecture because he/she cannot roleplay. Please, PLEASE prove me wrong.

New issue. New THREAD.

Guys, seriously. Take it to another thread or something. :/

Your assumptions of the speed is childish. I know that is infact very slow. Hence why I didn't include him as a possible attacker. Though absolute defense is definately up that alley.

Why do you want to attack me so badly? You clearly do not know my nation and I am still building up the RP background, but apparently you don't bother to check that. I have no military listed yet, but I have definately done the research for them. ARM just began rolling off arms yesterday.

You yourself said it. I want to attack you so badly because you majorly got on my nerves by complaining in a previous thread and haven't stopped. Not once have I seen you roleplay, and you still have the gall to "warn" me - someone much older gamewise and much more experienced in roleplaying than you - that what I'm doing is wrong. And like I said, I would send a force no bigger than yours to some theatre or another, I wouldn't be falling back on numbers.

This is the OOC thread for AMF's declaration against slave trading. This all has a place here because this is the situation in which conflicts are arising.

You yourself said it. I want to attack you so badly because you majorly got on my nerves by complaining in a previous thread and haven't stopped. Not once have I seen you roleplay, and you still have the gall to "warn" me - someone much older gamewise and much more experienced in roleplaying than you - that what I'm doing is wrong. And like I said, I would send a force no bigger than yours to some theatre or another, I wouldn't be falling back on numbers.

This is the OOC thread for AMF's declaration against slave trading. This all has a place here because this is the situation in which conflicts are arising.

No. AMF himself has asked you to split the thread. So please. USE ANOTHER THREAD.

As the thread starter, I'm asking you lot to go and start a new thread for this nonesense.

He gets to duck again. Fantastic. Well, back to the drawing board.

Use the other thread I made.

It's a shame I had to wade through that much utter bullshit to find the meat in this thread.

Sorry about my lack of response, folks, but it looks to continue. My wife's mother suffered yet another mild heart attack a few nights ago. So, I'll be in and out of the house, but probably doing for my children all alone without alot of time for fun and frolics.

However, if any of you slaver nations don't mind a slower pace, and the possibility of me vanishing for a few weeks, feel free and encouraged to hit me on AIM, we could talk something out and get into this, even if it's not an all-out war. I'll be on most of tonight if anyone cares to bite.

And another thing people, stop with the whole "Dreadfire is a wrestler" bit, because he's not. Damien's based off of the wrestler Kane, but that does not mean that he *is* him. I'm getting rather annoyed with it.

I see this as nothing more than an OOC jab, which pure and simply is flamebait. If you can't seem to seperate OOC and IC, then kindly don't take part in my threads. Nobody else is given shit when they use characters based off real life people or find some random skank on Google image search to serve as their leader, so don't do it to me. Alrighty?

Oh what fun. Well, this is a reference post for those who'd like to know exactly what the little package I'm shipping to AMF is capable of. Reference Garm.

http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_NS_Draftroom/index.php?showtopic=3685

I'm writing up a post which will be a speech by my ever-ready foreign minister.

In it, among other things, he is going to address the following subject: from here on out, any ship carrying slaves is going to be considered to exist in an illegal state and will be allowed to be boarded by Harakian vessels in order to free the slaves inside it. Yes, we will violate national sovereignty to do this. Really, we don't care about that jazz. We don't care about the whole 'individual versus national sovereignty' debate, we just care about people and morals. Enslaving people is wrong, so we will board ships and free the slaves on them.

That being said, I'm not going to arbitrarily pick and choose vessels to stop. I don't keep tabs on all the 'get your slaves here' threads, and so instead I, as a devoted proponent of the 'plan RPs with the other people first' school of NS thought, will open myself up here: if you want to get into an RP with me as a nation with a slave ship being boarded, drop me a TG and we'll work something out. If nobody drops me a TG, nothing will happen besides my announcement. It's that simple.

Unless, of course, I'm at war with out officially, involved in a thread fighting you, etc. Then I feel I have the right to RP the seizure of any shipments even if we haven't worked it out over TGs beforehand.

And another thing people, stop with the whole "Dreadfire is a wrestler" bit, because he's not. Damien's based off of the wrestler Kane, but that does not mean that he *is* him. I'm getting rather annoyed with it.

I see this as nothing more than an OOC jab, which pure and simply is flamebait. If you can't seem to seperate OOC and IC, then kindly don't take part in my threads. Nobody else is given shit when they use characters based off real life people or find some random skank on Google image search to serve as their leader, so don't do it to me. Alrighty?

AMF you possibly have the worst kind of leader for a RP standard. I infact hate pictures because if they are a familar face or well known more people will make that connection and think of him as just that. And this thread mentions it. Clearly it is just annoying to everyone else as well. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=522051

I'm stepping up my action after getting the base for my military fleshed out (albeit VERY poorly) with leaders/scientists and stuff, but don't expect to be rid of tiny Eralineta so quickly.

AMF you possibly have the worst kind of leader for a RP standard. I infact hate pictures because if they are a familiar face or well known more people will make that connection and think of him as just that. And this thread mentions it. Clearly it is just annoying to everyone else as well. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=522051


Rash generalization there...

I also don't see anything about pictures in the thread link you provide.

Eralineta: have you actually read the thread you're linking? Cause there's nothing in there to even mildly suggest your contention.

I personally don't give two flips if he uses a pic, so there's one vote against your claim.

I use the Dreadfire picture in the tabloid I've been writing (The Miana Register-Times) to poke fun at him for looking like a wrestler. Nothing against AMF OOCly.

I personally don't mind the picture, because it adds a little dynamic to the RPing.

Essentially ripping off characters. The picture just does more justice. Forget it.

Essentially ripping off characters. The picture just does more justice. Forget it.

He's not ripping off a character, he's just using the wrestler picture as the picture of his leader, who is not this wrestler.

IIRC, the smallest nukes in existence are 'suitcase nukes', and by 'suitcase', I mean "size of a small trunk". They arn't remotely concealable, and are not going to be easily portable by one person.

Also, lol at giant ship. I think a steel rod the size of a telephone pole hitting it at orbital velocities would take care of it nicely.

AMF you possibly have the worst kind of leader for a RP standard. I infact hate pictures because if they are a familar face or well known more people will make that connection and think of him as just that. And this thread mentions it. Clearly it is just annoying to everyone else as well. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=522051




The door is to your left if you don't like it.

In 4 years I've never heard anyone complain about it being 'annoying'. Since you're new, you obviously don't know that back in the beginning of NS, almost everyone used pictures for their leaders. I still like to keep a part of my own history on this site alive.

And for the record, just because you or maybe 1 other person finds it 'annoying', doesn't mean that "everyone else" does. And as I said before, nobody is forcing you to post in my threads, so if you're losing that much sleep over it, go somewhere else.

. Clearly it is just annoying to everyone else as well.

For the record: I find Dreadfire an immensely cool character.

For the record: I find Dreadfire an immensely cool character.

No complaints here either, Dreadfire is the best example of a maniacal overlord I've seen thus far and some Kane is always good.

In it, among other things, he is going to address the following subject: from here on out, any ship carrying slaves is going to be considered to exist in an illegal state and will be allowed to be boarded by Harakian vessels in order to free the slaves inside it. Yes, we will violate national sovereignty to do this. Really, we don't care about that jazz. We don't care about the whole 'individual versus national sovereignty' debate, we just care about people and morals. Enslaving people is wrong, so we will board ships and free the slaves on them.
That is to say, you supoort individual sovereignty, which is really just a neat way of expressing what you just more clumsily said you support.

As a study in blatant hypocrisy, this RP is fascinating, and in that I count SL countries like Whyatica that have inexplicably come out in favour of slavery, as well as Gholgoth which has suddenly turned around and started arguing for individual sovereignty and classic liberalism having just spent most of their time attacking these concepts, due to the fact that they clearly contradict the leaders of the top Gholgoth countries' justifications for their holding huge amounts of power over their subjects.

I figure I may as well clarify my position - sovereignity in general can go spit if the nations involved are stopping us from doing something. No ambiguity, eh?

In 4 years I've never heard anyone complain about it being 'annoying'. Since you're new, you obviously don't know that back in the beginning of NS, almost everyone used pictures for their leaders.
A bit closer to 50%, actually. The other 50% was all like 'Wow, I wish I had the technical skills or expertise to find unique pictures for my characters', without realising that all it required was a google image search. (Guess which school I followed.... :p)

That is to say, you supoort individual sovereignty, which is really just a neat way of expressing what you just more clumsily said you support.

As a study in blatant hypocrisy, this RP is fascinating, and in that I count SL countries like Whyatica that have inexplicably come out in favour of slavery, as well as Gholgoth which has suddenly turned around and started arguing for individual sovereignty and classic liberalism having just spent most of their time attacking these concepts, due to the fact that they clearly contradict the leaders of the top Gholgoth countries' justifications for their holding huge amounts of power over their subjects.

I blame alliance politics for that. The Sovereign League and Gholgoth appear to hate each other so much that they're willing to do the exact opposite of what they believe just to piss the other side off. (Yes, I know, AMF has never liked slavery etc., etc., but nonetheless it seems kind of odd to suddenly start proclaiming what looks like a lot of "All human beings have a right to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness, and if they don't agree I'll kill them!", especially when you're a longstanding evil militaristic dictatorship.) For instance, most of the SL is now suddenly starting to support slavery just because AMF is against it.

The irony in these threads is delightful.

The SL does not support slavery, and issued a statement to that effect (people seem to be treating that statement as if it were written by Praetonia's government - if that were the case I would have said so, rather than calling it a SL statement) and indeed has declared war against the Slave Trade Union on another thread. The only slaver nation with widespread SL support is Doomingsland, and that is for political rather than idealogical reasons.

as well as Gholgoth which has suddenly turned around and started arguing for individual sovereignty and classic liberalism having just spent most of their time attacking these concepts, due to the fact that they clearly contradict the leaders of the top Gholgoth countries' justifications for their holding huge amounts of power over their subjects.


Okay, I'm not one to jump up and defend Gholgoth, mostly because they can do it perfectly fine themselves, but I have to say the above shows a supreme ignorance as to what Gholgoth actually is. Gholgoth isn't some regional alliance of military dictatorships, there are political systems of every stripe and breed. Gholgoth is a regional alliance whose only purpose is mutual defense; if you're going to claim Gholgoth is some evil super alliance just for that, then so is every alliance in this game.

Also, the SL is going to catch shit from people for supporting Doomingsland because most people will read the AMF "state slaves" as propaganda and roll their eyes. All they'll see is that Doomingsland's emperor called slaves property.

There is no moral high ground for the SL, because you waded in the shit with everybody else. The only way you could have made an attempt at the high ground and have anybody take you seriously is to have declared neutrality on the grounds that both are slave states and regularly violate the principles of classic liberal democracy.

That is to say, you supoort individual sovereignty, which is really just a neat way of expressing what you just more clumsily said you support.

As a study in blatant hypocrisy, this RP is fascinating, and in that I count SL countries like Whyatica that have inexplicably come out in favour of slavery, as well as Gholgoth which has suddenly turned around and started arguing for individual sovereignty and classic liberalism having just spent most of their time attacking these concepts, due to the fact that they clearly contradict the leaders of the top Gholgoth countries' justifications for their holding huge amounts of power over their subjects.

Not really. First of all, I'm not one of the ambiguous countries you name, so that has nothing to do with me.

Secondly, I say I don't want to be involved in the individual versus national sovereignty deal because, quite frankly, I don't. I don't care about being labeled as being in one 'camp' that some people quite strongly in one way or another and will fight to the death over, for some bizarre reason. I've removed myself from the debate and the issue entirely. My nation cares primarily about people and always has, since the very first day I joined, so I guess if I fell into a camp it would probably be individual sovereignty, but in the past there have been times when I've taken the other side in a conflict, to support an ally or for whatever reason. I don't like to get involved in the sovereignty issue, so I don't. Simple as that.



Also, to Zukariaa, I'm assuming your message to Dreadfire was open to the world because of the 'official message' statement. If not, just let me know and I'll delete my message.

Okay, I'm not one to jump up and defend Gholgoth, mostly because they can do it perfectly fine themselves, but I have to say the above shows a supreme ignorance as to what Gholgoth actually is. Gholgoth isn't some regional alliance of military dictatorships, there are political systems of every stripe and breed. Gholgoth is a regional alliance whose only purpose is mutual defense;
Hence why I said "top Gholgoth countries" rather than "all Gholgoth countries". I know there are other government systems in Gholgoth, but the countries that are identified as its leaders and most of those active on the forums are all strange pseudo-fascist feudal monarchies.

if you're going to claim Gholgoth is some evil super alliance just for that, then so is every alliance in this game.
No not really. Some alliances, such as the SL, don't contain any military dictatorships at all, and make a point of barring their entry.

Also, the SL is going to catch shit from people for supporting Doomingsland because most people will read the AMF "state slaves" as propaganda and roll their eyes. All they'll see is that Doomingsland's emperor called slaves property.
Only ignorant or supremely myopic people would do this. II may have a tendancy towards sycophantry when it comes to dealing with AMF (which, to be perfectly clear, I don't blame AMF for, especially as he has said himself he doesn't like it), but I don't see why that would transfer into IC. You may as well claim that no one should have noticed the citizens of the Soviet Union were being oppressed, and all claims that they were should have been dismissed as Western propaganda. This is clearly nonesense.

There is no moral high ground for the SL, because you waded in the shit with everybody else. The only way you could have made an attempt at the high ground and have anybody take you seriously is to have declared neutrality on the grounds that both are slave states and regularly violate the principles of classic liberal democracy.
The SL has declared neutrality (at least over Doomingsland - the SL has also declared war on the Slaver Traders' Union). Only some SL countries, such as Praetonia and Questers, support Doomingsland, and other SL countries oppose Doomingsland and the help it has been given. It seems somewhat ironic that you (falsely) accuse me of ignorance of other alliances, and then come out with a statement like that. SL isn't a pseudo-superstate like some alliances are, that tries to claim it can speak for its members independently of them and decide their foreign policy for them. Something is only done under the SL banner if there is genuine unanimity.

Only ignorant or supremely myopic people would do this. II may have a tendency towards sycophantry when it comes to dealing with AMF (which, to be perfectly clear, I don't blame AMF for, especially as he has said himself he doesn't like it), but I don't see why that would transfer into IC. You may as well claim that no one should have noticed the citizens of the Soviet Union were being oppressed, and all claims that they were should have been dismissed as Western propaganda. This is clearly nonsense.

I never said some AMF citizens weren't oppressed, because some clearly are. However, if anything Doomingsland is worse because it uses a clearly false interpretation of the Bible to do the exact same thing. I find a theocracy more disturbing than an old style dictatorship, personally, but that's just me.


The SL has declared neutrality (at least over Doomingsland - the SL has also declared war on the Slaver Traders' Union). Only some SL countries, such as Praetonia and Questers, support Doomingsland, and other SL countries oppose Doomingsland and the help it has been given.

Yeah, okay. So, the leaders of the SL openly help Doomingsland while the rest declare "neutrality" towards the whole thing with a wink thrown Doom's way. As for taking on the Slaver's Union, I'd be impressed if you were taking on a nation that required more than a single battle squadron to crush, never mind the dogpile that's going on. I might've even been convinced that you actually cared about the slavery issue if you had taken out a slaver nation before AMF made his thread.

I never said some AMF citizens weren't oppressed, because some clearly are.[quote]
All are, except the country's monarch, Damien Dreadfire. Some of them may support Dreadfire's reign, but some Soviet citizens supported the USSR as well, even though it was oppressing them.

[quote]However, if anything Doomingsland is worse because it uses a clearly false interpretation of the Bible to do the exact same thing. I find a theocracy more disturbing than an old style dictatorship, personally, but that's just me.
The importance you assign to alleged misinterpretation of Bibilical texts (the Catholic Church certainly hasn't seen slavery as running contrary to Christianity for the majority of its history) is purely subjective, and I would have thought that most people, including Christians, would see greater human suffering as worse than lesser human suffering combined with misinterpretation of scripture.

Yeah, okay. So, the leaders of the SL openly help Doomingsland while the rest declare "neutrality" towards the whole thing with a wink thrown Doom's way.
The Sovereign League does not have leaders. Not only that, but in the context of an organisation that has no treaty or formal structure at all, the very idea of a leadership is meaningless. Praetonia and Questers are only conceivably leaders in the sense that they are persuasive, but this would be the case even if the Sovereign League didn't exist.

As for taking on the Slaver's Union, I'd be impressed if you were taking on a nation that required more than a single battle squadron to crush, never mind the dogpile that's going on.
So you view the 'goodness' of an action as proportional to its difficulty, rather than proportional to the positive effects of the outcome? That is a ridiculous standard from which to base morality. Indeed, since attacking a strongly defended slaver state is going to result in vastly more civilian and military casualties than attacking a relatively undefended slaver state for the same gain, your moral standard is positively twisted.

I might've even been convinced that you actually cared about the slavery issue if you had taken out a slaver nation before AMF made his thread.
Again, this is judging actions based on subjective and irrelevent factors like difficulty and intentions, rather than on meaningful measures like results. The fact is that AMF, Pantera, Etc. have not declared war on the Slave Trade Union, passing up the oppurtunity to free large numbers of slaves relatively bloodlessly, deciding instead to concentrate on a military invasion of a political rival. This not only casts aspersions on their intentions, but is also worse from the objective standpoint of trying to free the most slaves.

All are, except the country's monarch, Damien Dreadfire. Some of them may support Dreadfire's reign, but some Soviet citizens supported the USSR as well, even though it was oppressing them.


Well, that's certainly news to me then.

I've both stated and RP'd now and in the past that Dreadfire is kind to his people so long as they break no laws and do not undermine him. While dissidents are dealt with mercilessly, the common hardworking Freek enjoys extensive civil rights (though political freedoms are near non-existant) and reaps all the benefits of the Empire. The standard of living is very high, and the only real areas that can be labeld as slums are in the south, where the Fallen choose to live in medieval conditions.

ICly I can understand rivals of Dreadfire claiming that all his people are "slaves" or "oppressed", but when you start getting OOC like this...you're making jumps that even Evel Knievel can't land.

What civil rights? You have said yourself that they do not have freedom of speech or assembly unless the government chooses to allow them to exercise these freedoms, and in all cases where they are being used in a remotely seditious manner (note that in all real life countries considered to have "strong civil rights", there is no such crime as 'sedition') the government acts mercilessly against them. You have shown in past RPs that there is no right to a trial, fair or otherwise, before a jury or otherwise. You RP a 100% tax rate, so the "hardworking" citizens of AMF get to keep none of the rewards for their hard work save other than that which the government chooses to allot them.

When one considers any criteria used today to judge whether or not a state is free, Automagfreek fails utterly.

Now, what you say about people living in relative affluence may or may not be true, but the fact of the matter is that affluence does not constitute freedom. The citizens of Imperial Germany or Tudor England were really quite affluent, for the most part, relative to the global average for the times in which they existed, but no one would use that to argue that they were free.

Dreadfire may or may not be a benevloent or liked tyrannt. Afterall, many of the European feudal dynasties of the Middle Ages enjoyed widespread public support at least some of the time, often a lot of the time, provided they didn't step on too many toes, as did the Fascist dictatorships of Europe in the 1930s and many of the Middle Eastern dictatorships today. But that does not make them any less dictatorships, and it certainly doesn't make them free.

A slave is forced to work, and his owners get all the money he makes. In Automagfreek, citizens' incomes are owned by the government and, although there isn't any direct evidence that they are forced to work, it is reasonable to assume that there is some form of compuction (be it direct illegality to remain unemployed, or tying the receiving of food to working, or whathaveyou) in AMF or the country's strong RPed industrial base would have collapsed due to idleness. Automagfreek's subjects meet the criteria for being slaves. The military, which is bred and owned directly by the state, certainly does.

Now, I'm not judging this system necessarily, at least not OOC. This is a game so it doesn't really matter that virtual people are being oppressed or enslaved, but I fail to see how anyone can possibly deny OOCly that AMF is a tyranny. Nor do I see why they would want to. AMF is a very well written tyranny, and adds more to the game by being a counterweight to the free market liberal Sovereign League powers by being a tyranny than it possibly could by being another liberal democracy.

Now, I'm not judging this system necessarily, at least not OOC. This is a game so it doesn't really matter that virtual people are being oppressed or enslaved, but I fail to see how anyone can possibly deny OOCly that AMF is a tyranny. Nor do I see why they would want to. AMF is a very well written tyranny, and adds more to the game by being a counterweight to the free market liberal Sovereign League powers by being a tyranny than it possibly could by being another liberal democracy.

Thing is, it is a tyranny, but the people love him. People love him, so it really doesn't matter if they are oppressed or not, only if they know it.

I don't see AMF as becoming a liberal democracy anytime soon. It has just cursed its rivals, calling them idiots and promising utter genocide. Heh, the only reason they condemend slavery is because "it is cowardly".

Thing is, it is a tyranny, but the people love him. People love him, so it really doesn't matter if they are oppressed or not, only if they know it.
On NS it can be taken as read that the people of any country will be RPed supporting anything the government does. British Londinium even RPed people supporting a policy of baby killing. AMF was trying to deny that his country was oppressive by claiming that his people didn't mind being oppressed. This is bizarre, but it could well be true. The problem with this argument is it's a complete red herring, and actually accepts the premise (that the people are being oppressed) that it's allegedly an argument against.

I don't see AMF as becoming a liberal democracy anytime soon. It has just cursed its rivals, calling them idiots and promising utter genocide. Heh, the only reason they condemend slavery is because "it is cowardly".
I don't see it either. If it ever happens, it will probably require the sponsorship of one or more foreign powers to succeed.

Thing is, it is a tyranny, but the people love him. People love him, so it really doesn't matter if they are oppressed or not, only if they know it.

In NS people can love any kind of dictator.

What civil rights? You have said yourself that they do not have freedom of speech or assembly unless the government chooses to allow them to exercise these freedoms, and in all cases where they are being used in a remotely seditious manner (note that in all real life countries considered to have "strong civil rights", there is no such crime as 'sedition') the government acts mercilessly against them.

Freekish citizens are allowed to go about their daily lives and live as they choose to, so long as they do not meddle in politics. Gays, people of other religions, minorities, etc. are all treated as equal citizens of AMF, and there is almost no descrimination.

Dreadfire simply does not allow anyone to challenge his rule, and following the coup by Rayne and the horrors that followed, the Freeks would not trade Damien away for anything. The average, law abiding Freekish citizen does not lose sleep at night over wether or not the state is going to crush them. If they break no laws, then they need not live in fear.

You have shown in past RPs that there is no right to a trial, fair or otherwise, before a jury or otherwise.

For crimes the convicted goes before an Overlord to decide his fate, which acts as a judge. True, AMF has no jury trials, but that suddenly doesn't mean that there are no civil rights or any kind of due process.

You RP a 100% tax rate, so the "hardworking" citizens of AMF get to keep none of the rewards for their hard work save other than that which the government chooses to allot them.

Excuse me.....what?!?!? Where have I ever RP'd a 100% tax rate? I don't know where you're pulling this stuff out of.

When one considers any criteria used today to judge whether or not a state is free, Automagfreek fails utterly.

By your definition maybe, but your definition is simply that: yours.


Now, what you say about people living in relative affluence may or may not be true, but the fact of the matter is that affluence does not constitute freedom. The citizens of Imperial Germany or Tudor England were really quite affluent, for the most part, relative to the global average for the times in which they existed, but no one would use that to argue that they were free.

Dreadfire may or may not be a benevloent or liked tyrannt. Afterall, many of the European feudal dynasties of the Middle Ages enjoyed widespread public support at least some of the time, often a lot of the time, provided they didn't step on too many toes, as did the Fascist dictatorships of Europe in the 1930s and many of the Middle Eastern dictatorships today. But that does not make them any less dictatorships, and it certainly doesn't make them free.

Look, I know how I've RP'd my people and leaders, and I know how they act. They trust and love their leader because he bestows richs and spoils upon them, and protects them without question. He is seen by his people as very benevloent, and as a savior from the dark days of President Kaye's dying regime, when terrorism and civil threw the country into total anarchy. Dreadfire could be compared to Hitler during his rise to power, because he came to power at a critical time and unified the country, taking it to new heights within the world.

A slave is forced to work, and his owners get all the money he makes. In Automagfreek, citizens' incomes are owned by the government

I like how you are deciding such matters, since I have never written that. Ever.

Truth be told that is completely false, the state does not take money or assets from its people. Claiming that my government does so ICly is a lie, and OOCly is a godmod.

and, although there isn't any direct evidence that they are forced to work, it is reasonable to assume that there is some form of compuction (be it direct illegality to remain unemployed, or tying the receiving of food to working, or whathaveyou) in AMF or the country's strong RPed industrial base would have collapsed due to idleness. Automagfreek's subjects meet the criteria for being slaves. The military, which is bred and owned directly by the state, certainly does.

Except, not. The typical Freek goes to work, puts in his 9 to 5, gets his paycheck, and lives life as anyone else would. Economy wise, nothing drastic has changed since AMF was a democracy under President Kaye.

The military being slaves is open to debate, because the Freeks are a volunteer force, and the Fallen see it as their warrior duty to the state. The only entity that could be seen as "slaves" are the Sentinels, though over the real life years I have changed how I've RP'd them. As of now they are not harvested (not cloned, that was done away with awhile ago), except the Sentinel Stalkers.

Now, I'm not judging this system necessarily, at least not OOC. This is a game so it doesn't really matter that virtual people are being oppressed or enslaved, but I fail to see how anyone can possibly deny OOCly that AMF is a tyranny. Nor do I see why they would want to. AMF is a very well written tyranny, and adds more to the game by being a counterweight to the free market liberal Sovereign League powers by being a tyranny than it possibly could by being another liberal democracy.

Tyranny or not, my nation is not nearly as...jacked as you might think it is.

The Sovereign League does not have leaders. Not only that, but in the context of an organisation that has no treaty or formal structure at all, the very idea of a leadership is meaningless. Praetonia and Questers are only conceivably leaders in the sense that they are persuasive, but this would be the case even if the Sovereign League didn't exist.

Funnily enough, Gholgoth is very similar in structure, only we're more open to diversity, rather than sticking to set ideological guidelines for actions and admissions. We don't have leaders. AMF and Pants started the region, which gives them a slight edge, but that's mostly because they're smart, active, and have years of experience behind them, so people listen to them. There is no treaty, no formal agreement, just the knowledge that we are 'Brothers in Gholgoth', so to speak. Everyone has an equal say and regional decisions are made when everyone agrees, which tends to be pretty much all the time since we get on well. Though, of course, inactive people don't use their say, so decisions are made without them when decisions need to be made quickly.

Funny how these parallels exist.

Not going to enter the AMF Civil Rights argument.

Excuse me.....what?!?!? Where have I ever RP'd a 100% tax rate? I don't know where you're pulling this stuff out of.

Prehaps it came from the front page of your NationState website, AMF. Which is funny, that means abosutely nothing except for calcuating national stats, which...funny enough, means nothing except as a guideline on how to RP your state.

Not using it to offend you, I'm using it to show to the person that says a 100% tax rate that it's crazy talk to rely on gameplay mechicans to back your arguments.

On NS it can be taken as read that the people of any country will be RPed supporting anything the government does. British Londinium even RPed people supporting a policy of baby killing. AMF was trying to deny that his country was oppressive by claiming that his people didn't mind being oppressed. This is bizarre, but it could well be true. The problem with this argument is it's a complete red herring, and actually accepts the premise (that the people are being oppressed) that it's allegedly an argument against.

And you are saying we SHOULDN'T respect how a nation RPs? If so, we wouldn't be suprised if Nationstates like AMF start accusing your government of having "slavery by the majority", via palrmientray rule. No matter that people LIKE democracy, they are enslaved by democracy, and must be 'freed'?

Who cares what AMF's government is and how he represents it IC? It's up to you IC whether to believe it or not.

Freekish citizens are allowed to go about their daily lives and live as they choose to, so long as they do not meddle in politics.
Do you not see the contradiction in this statement? They are only allowed to go about their daily lives provided their daily lives don't involve any sort of dissent to the state. If the state interferes with the way they conduct their daily lives (and all states do, to a greater or lesser extent), they have no ability to change it. In any free state, people are allowed to express dissent and they do have the ability to write and change their own laws. You are saying that a Freek has every freedom of a Praetonian except the ability to disagree with the government or elect representatives to write his laws and determine tax rates. I agree with this entirely - it is those exceptions that make AMF a tyranny, and the lack of those exceptions that make Praetonia a free state.

Gays, people of other religions, minorities, etc. are all treated as equal citizens of AMF, and there is almost no descrimination.
It's perfectly possible for a tyranny to decide not to impose arbitary laws along lines of religion, gender, sexual orientation, race, culture, Etc. - it's the ability to impose arbitary laws at all that makes them tyrannies.

Dreadfire simply does not allow anyone to challenge his rule, and following the coup by Rayne and the horrors that followed, the Freeks would not trade Damien away for anything. The average, law abiding Freekish citizen does not lose sleep at night over wether or not the state is going to crush them. If they break no laws, then they need not live in fear.
This is understandable. In fact, a part of Praetonia's backstory involves a Charles I-esque Monarchy taking over by popular assent for a period of time because the first republican government made such a botch of the situation. I accept that your people may love Dreadfire - I pointed myself in my last post to examples of where tyrants have been loved throughout the ages - but that doesn't stop him being a tyrant, unfortunately.

For crimes the convicted goes before an Overlord to decide his fate, which acts as a judge. True, AMF has no jury trials, but that suddenly doesn't mean that there are no civil rights or any kind of due process.
My information comes from this thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=499196). You RP the dissident being arrested, sent immediately to the "Ministry of Information" for an Orwellian interegation and, after a brief chat, whisked off to the Halls of the Dead for execution. Now I accept that many, indeed most, cases may well be tried by these Overlords (there is no prior evidence either way), but the government has a demonstrated ability to skip these proceedings as it chooses, and has demonstrated that it feels free to use this ability. According to any real world definition, this is incompatible with AMF being a free state, and even most real-world dictatorships don't do this except in cases of rioting or times of civil war.

Excuse me.....what?!?!? Where have I ever RP'd a 100% tax rate? I don't know where you're pulling this stuff out of.
I was told that you RPed your economy according to the calculators. If this is incorrect then I apologise, and I ask what you actually RP your GDP per capita and tax rate % of GDP as.

However, my argument doesnt actually rest on tax rate. Regardless of how much tax Dreadfire chooses to collect, the fact remains that it is still his choice and not that of a Parliament elected by the people. Even during the reign of King Charles I - a reign so disastorously tyrannical that it caused a series of civil wars that overthrew and temporarily (very nearly permanently) had the British monarchy abolished, as well as losing poor King Charles his head - the King still had to call Parliament in order to raise taxes. Dreadfire has property rights over everything the AMF state produces, and he is answerable to no one in how he exercises them. The fact that he chooses not to fully exercise them doesn't change that.

By your definition maybe, but your definition is simply that: yours.
"My" definition is the same one used by the UN, Amnesty International, Liberty and other similar real world organisations. What is your definition?

Look, I know how I've RP'd my people and leaders, and I know how they act. They trust and love their leader because he bestows richs and spoils upon them, and protects them without question. He is seen by his people as very benevloent, and as a savior from the dark days of President Kaye's dying regime, when terrorism and civil threw the country into total anarchy. Dreadfire could be compared to Hitler during his rise to power, because he came to power at a critical time and unified the country, taking it to new heights within the world.
I don't disagree with any of this, and it doesn't undermine my point.

I like how you are deciding such matters, since I have never written that. Ever.

Truth be told that is completely false, the state does not take money or assets from its people. Claiming that my government does so ICly is a lie, and OOCly is a godmod.

Except, not. The typical Freek goes to work, puts in his 9 to 5, gets his paycheck, and lives life as anyone else would. Economy wise, nothing drastic has changed since AMF was a democracy under President Kaye.
See earlier. Although your government does take at least some money/assets from its people, unless you have no taxes at all (and thus no military, police, government, Etc. which you clearly RP possessing).

The military being slaves is open to debate, because the Freeks are a volunteer force, and the Fallen see it as their warrior duty to the state. The only entity that could be seen as "slaves" are the Sentinels, though over the real life years I have changed how I've RP'd them. As of now they are not harvested (not cloned, that was done away with awhile ago), except the Sentinel Stalkers.
Do sentinels have the ability to choose not to be sentinels? If not, then the subject is not open to debate - they are slaves. That is the definition of slavery. However it seems rather strange that you have decided to retcon most of their backstory just as it begins to become an issue.

Tyranny or not, my nation is not nearly as...jacked as you might think it is.
My OOC opinion of your IC country isn't really relevent, and I haven't expressed one, other than my opinion of the facts about how it is run. ICly Praetonia despises all tyranny on general principle, with only a few exceptions such as Doomingsland where it is strongly in the national interest to support them. Judge this worldview as you will, but it is what they think, for better or worse.

And you are saying we SHOULDN'T respect how a nation RPs? If so, we wouldn't be suprised if Nationstates like AMF start accusing your government of having "slavery by the majority", via palrmientray rule. No matter that people LIKE democracy, they are enslaved by democracy, and must be 'freed'?
The Praetonian Parliament seizes only a small percentage of the peoples' earnings in taxation and, more importantly, it does not exercise ownership over them. The people elect and constitute Parliament, and may abolish it if they wish. Regardless of AMF's tax rate, Dreadfire may raise taxes as and when he wishes, without the people whose money is being taken having any control over it. So sure, you could claim that Parliament is a tyrant, that freedom is slavery, that war is peace and that ignorance is strength, but don't be suprised if this makes you look like an Orwellian nut.

Excuse me, Prae, while I gag on the definition of anything put forth by the UN and Amnesty International. Visiting dictionary.com I find the following definitions for tyranny:


1. arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority.
2. the government or rule of a tyrant or absolute ruler.
3. a state ruled by a tyrant or absolute ruler.
4. oppressive or unjustly severe government on the part of any ruler.
5. undue severity or harshness.
6. a tyrannical act or proceeding.


2/3 of the definitions there refer to the abuse of power, rather than the holding of absolute power. And frankly, as an American who through history books is fairly well-versed in the kinds of tyranny that parliamentary systems are capable of, I have a hard time subscribing to the theory that parliaments are inherently non-tyrannical. It's power, and how that power is used, that defines the presence or lack of tyranny.

Actually I referred to NGO definitions of "whether or not a state is free", which is admittedly somewhat different to whether or not a state is a tyranny. If we define tyranny as an "oppressive or unjustly severe government on the part of any ruler", then the Praetonian Parliament, despite theoretically possessing the legislative power to do this, still does not fit the bill, and the burden of proof lies with SS001 to prove that it does, not me to prove a negative.