NationStates Jolt Archive

There was very little ceremony, considering the emphasis that many other nations and cultures put so much on the proceedings being carried out.

Riggsman thought he would prefer the ceremony. It'd at least give the impression that someone gave a shit.

He walked out into the bright sunshine, barely noticing the military police flanking him on either side. His mind was on other things. Could have beens. Things he might have done differently. Ramifications.

An MP Corporal stopped him, and posed the traditional question. The closest thing that Lyras had to ceremony in this event.

“Anything, sir?”

Riggsman nodded once.

“Smoke?”

The corporal nodded, and handed him one, then proferred a lit lighter. Standard, almost. Strangely, even for those who didn't usually smoke. Riggsman bent forward, cigarette between his lips, and the corporal lit it for him, before stepping aside.

He turned to his right, and locked eyes with Sergeant Markosian, just as the firing squad brought their rifles into the “aim” position.

He'd known Markosian for years. They'd been in the same training cohort while non-combatants. Riggsman had quickly been marked as an officer training candidate, however, but they'd kept in touch.

Riggsman transmitted what little sympathy and solidarity he could to the man with a look. Markosian nodded, imperceptibly. He understood.

A loud crack, and the body of Sergeant Dwight Markosian fell to the ground.

The lieutenant in command of the firing squad, Hugh Menzies, walked forward, and checked for signs of life.

The lieutenant stood, pointed his service automatic, and fired once more. The body spasmed, then was still.

Riggsman winced as the crack echoed. Menzies had always been extremely thorough. Comforting, in a way. Markosian, though, he had deserved better. He was a soldier, and a patriot, if a deluded one as far as Executive Command was concerned.

The presiding officer, Provost-Colonel Williamshire turned, and spoke, Riggsman hearing his voice for the first time as he walked over to where Markosian had stood, two orderlies dragging the body away.

“16459985 Major Geoffrey Riggsman, you are here to receive punishment for the charges of treason, conspiracy with the enemy and sedition. Do you have anything you wish to say before sentence is carried out?”

The firing detail had been on station for nearly two hours. Upwards of forty people had been shot, and they were tired. They had long ceased to register who was on the other end of their rifle sights. They wearily finished loading the next rounds into the chambers, and prepared for the next command.

Riggsman looked back at the presiding officer, a myriad of emotions running through his head at the same time. Terror not least amongst them.

He said his piece. His courts martial had heard it all. But even as he'd said it then, he knew what the outcome would be. Executive Command couldn't let even a hint of political upheaval or democracy into Lyras. It could spell absolute catastrophe, and set a decay in the foundations of what was arguably the most powerful state in the Storn Archipelago. The slightest dissent was absolutely, ruthlessly crushed. The vast majority of Lyrans agreed, indoctrinated as they all had been since birth.

But Riggsman had seen Varessa and Transeden. Had even been outside the region, to cities in Excalbia and Pantocratoria. Had seen that the rest of the world had freedom. Had choices, not just orders. And he wanted the same for Lyras.

His silence was answer enough. Colonel Williamshire wasn't a bad man. Really, he wasn't. If nothing else, Lyras did breed people with devotion to their people, and their culture far better than most other nations. But they would also, to a man, follow orders.

Those that disagreed were shot.

As the firing detail brought their weapons to “aim”, Riggsman idly wondered who'd be next, after him. His eyes roved over to his right, to the door where he'd exited less than two minutes prior.

And locked eyes with the panicked, tear-streaked face of Non-combatant Tara Mayfeather.

Riggsman's head shot back to the Provost, and eyes met. His voice rose in indignation.

“You fuckers. You aren't serious. She's still a bloody teen-”

Another blast, echoing off the concrete walls.

Riggsman sucked in air like a landed fish, agony lancing through his chest, then whooshing out again as his shoulder hit the floor. He watched his cigarette roll away, propelled by the force of his shouted words, as Lieutenant Menzies' shadow approached his dimming eyes.

Riggsman was dying, and he knew it. Could just hear the Provost's words, fading into the background.

“58993433, Non-combatant Tara Mayfeather, you are here to receive...”

Menzies stepped into his field of vision, and bent down, his stooping form blocking Riggsman's declining vision from the heart-wrenching view of a sobbing 18 year old girl pleading for her life. Menzies spoke, words that he knew no one else would ever hear.

“I'm sorry, sir. I know you deserved better.”

The lieutenant stood, and raised his right hand outside Riggsman's field of vision.

The world went black.

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Lyran National News:

Today Executive Command announced the conclusion of an investigative operation into sedition, treason and conspiracy within units of the Diplomatic Corps. The investigation concluded that all 45 persons charged over the findings were linked to communist governments, and communist and secessionist movements throughout the Storn Archipelago, Excalbian Isles, and Mer des Ennuis. All the conspirators were executed at South Bredubar Barracks this morning. A spokesman for Executive Command confirmed that an investigation was continuing into the activities of the Free Virginia Liberation Army, and the Mer des Ennuis Rebels. Executive Command refused to rule out the possibility of armed intervention.

This is Major Stephanie Harris, Lyran National News.

The Animarnia Government offically in the strongest words condems the ruthless executions of mere political prisoners while we view execution as a sometimes needed deterent to violent crimes such as murder and rape. executed individules merely for being comunist is absurde and ridiculoas; we are as far from Comunist as you can get but we still find your execution wrong on every concivable moral scale.

If you really must 'get rid' of these "comunists" they we will happily take them off your hands for a small fee transferable to you. thats right. we will pay you for them. your political prisoners are out of your hair and you gain an monetary boost

We strongly advise you to consider this offer rather than executing citizens sumarily and randomly for mere political affiliation

[I]If you really must 'get rid' of these "comunists" they we will happily take them off your hands for a small fee transferable to you. thats right. we will pay you for them. your political prisoners are out of your hair and you gain an monetary boost

We strongly advise you to consider this offer rather than executing citizens sumarily and randomly for mere political affiliation



The issue is not so much that they are executed for the act of being communist, moreover the dissent that allowing on to be communist causes, and the extent to which that dissent threatens to undermine the whole Lyran culture and way of life.

These government-by-majority malcontents sow seeds of disharmony and discord, which threaten to break down everything that Lyras has achieved in the seventy years since independence from Varessa. Lyras must be strong and united, with human resources of Lyras able and willing to support the Executive Command in ensuring the continuing strength of the Protectorate.

Lieutenant-Colonel Jacobs
Spokesman for Executive Command
Diplomatic Corps
Protectorate of Lyras

Not to sound overly aggressive, but...well, when we've finished tearing Tyler VanStone to pieces for their treatment of Communists, we're coming after you. Good talk.

It was not often Mrs. Parkins ever sent out personal letters of condemnation, and it was very rare she'd take action - and she wouldn't be doing so today. But she was taken back at the brutal killings of Communists in Lyras, and wished to give her stance on the issue...

Upon hearing a full report of the events that have recently happened in your country I and Honako are shocked, saddened and appalled by what has happened. The clinical murder of citizens just for their believes is something that we condemn in the strongest possible way. We do not approve of the death penalty full stop; but the way this sentence was carried out and the reasons for the murders really is disgusting. We understand you felt at threat from these people, but we feel killing people in that way just to protect your culture is wrong.

Mrs. Bourla Parkins, High Commissioner,
The Honakon Independence Commission

The issue is not so much that they are executed for the act of being communist, moreover the dissent that allowing on to be communist causes, and the extent to which that dissent threatens to undermine the whole Lyran culture and way of life.

These government-by-majority malcontents sow seeds of disharmony and discord, which threaten to break down everything that Lyras has achieved in the seventy years since independence from Varessa. Lyras must be strong and united, with human resources of Lyras able and willing to support the Executive Command in ensuring the continuing strength of the Protectorate.

Lieutenant-Colonel Jacobs
Spokesman for Executive Command
Diplomatic Corps
Protectorate of Lyras

We understand that sometimes execution is warrented we too execute violent muderers beyond redemption, Rapests and Pedophiles; but however justifed execution is never the prefered option where other options are avalable. we also are of the opinion that Comunism as a whole is flawed in that it does not take into account human nature but does executing them not stregthen there reslove? To Paraphrase Shakespear; "if you prick us do we not bleed"

We Understand your struggle, we too have suffered Terrorism from Fundimentalist Islam but merely sumarily executing all Muslims would not solve the problem it would infact give creedance and strength to there cause.

we are both obviously a civilised Sociity; and we must let Comunists preach there views because we are a civilised; Free speach should be enshrined and yes sometimes there are limits; and yes free speach is sometimes abused by crying Fire in a closed thetre but would it not be more prudant to strengthen your own positon through engaging the people than simply executing polictical oponents?

We Understand your struggle, we too have suffered Terrorism from Fundimentalist Islam but merely sumarily executing all Muslims would not solve the problem it would infact give creedance and strength to there cause.

we are both obviously a civilised Sociity; and we must let Comunists preach there views because we are a civilised; Free speach should be enshrined and yes sometimes there are limits; and yes free speach is sometimes abused by crying Fire in a closed thetre but would it not be more prudant to strengthen your own positon through engaging the people than simply executing polictical oponents?

Perhaps you misunderstood our position. All persons in Lyras, from the moment of birth, are considered personnel of the Protectorate Defence Forces. The lowest rank, that of personnel still undergoing training, is "Non-Combatant".

We are an armed society. Everyone is, throughout their education, taught weapons, tactics, communications, fieldcraft, planning, logistics and management, leadership, electronic warfare, operational command, and more. The focus is on turning out people that put the Protectorate first, confident in the strength of our society, and willing and able to defend it.

Communists, democrats, pacifists... these people undermime everything. By showing leniency to anyone, we encourage others to question their training, education and conditioning.

The fabric of Lyran society itself is threatened.

As Aristotle stated, pardon one offence, and commission many.

Lieutenant-Colonel Jacobs
Spokesman for Executive Command
Diplomatic Corps
Protectorate of Lyras

Perhaps you misunderstood our position. All persons in Lyras, from the moment of birth, are considered personnel of the Protectorate Defence Forces. The lowest rank, that of personnel still undergoing training, is "Non-Combatant".

We are an armed society. Everyone is, throughout their education, taught weapons, tactics, communications, fieldcraft, planning, logistics and management, leadership, electronic warfare, operational command, and more. The focus is on turning out people that put the Protectorate first, confident in the strength of our society, and willing and able to defend it.

Communists, democrats, pacifists... these people undermime everything. By showing leniency to anyone, we encourage others to question their training, education and conditioning.

The fabric of Lyran society itself is threatened.

As Aristotle stated, pardon one offence, and commission many.

Lieutenant-Colonel Jacobs
Spokesman for Executive Command
Diplomatic Corps
Protectorate of Lyras

Ah; a Modern day Sparta; still is it not bad for your citenanzy; if large numbers of your population are executed I cannot imagine it would be good for your morale? our offer of buying these malcontents still stands; call it Exile if you will to make it sound more like a severe punishment to apease those hardliners in your government. we can pay $500 per person that will go straight into your coffers so that you can buy new and better military equipment while at the same time cutting off the fat of your comunists and other "pacifists" why kill them when you can profit from them

Ah; a Modern day Sparta; still is it not bad for your citenanzy; if large numbers of your population are executed I cannot imagine it would be good for your morale? our offer of buying these malcontents still stands; call it Exile if you will to make it sound more like a severe punishment to apease those hardliners in your government. we can pay $500 per person that will go straight into your coffers so that you can buy new and better military equipment while at the same time cutting off the fat of your comunists and other "pacifists" why kill them when you can profit from them

We thank you for your offer. While we doubt that $500 per person is likely to make much of an impression, the intent that you espouse in saving lives is commendable. However, you imply that we are killing our citizenry in droves. This is far from the case. The populace are aware that those that undermine Executive Command will be punished appropriately. By and large, our training and education methods produce very few persons who willfully dissent.

The vast majority of those who are punished for sedition and dissention are those who hve returned to Lyras from overseas postings with the Diplomatic Corps.

A shame. Some of the best of Lyras having their minds poisoned by decadent foreign influences.

Democracy. What a strange idea. How could someone take seriously any form of government that takes its direction from the whimsy of the mass of people who are uninformed as to what is at stake, or the truth of the issues. Far better, logically speaking, to reserve decisions to those in a position to be aware of the import and ramifications.

We will remember your kind offer. Don't expect many takers. From a population of greater than 2 billion, we have, this year, executed 52 people. We expect to make 150 or so by the end of the year. We are far from culling our own people. Rather, we are removing the cancer that would destroy our way of life from within.

Rome broke inside, before the Goths and Vandals ever crossed the Rhine.

Lieutenant-Colonel Jacobs
Spokesman for Executive Command
Diplomatic Corps
Protectorate of Lyras

We thank you for your offer. While we doubt that $500 per person is likely to make much of an impression, the intent that you espouse in saving lives is commendable. However, you imply that we are killing our citizenry in droves. This is far from the case. The populace are aware that those that undermine Executive Command will be punished appropriately. By and large, our training and education methods produce very few persons who willfully dissent.

The vast majority of those who are punished for sedition and dissention are those who hve returned to Lyras from overseas postings with the Diplomatic Corps.

A shame. Some of the best of Lyras having their minds poisoned by decadent foreign influences.

Democracy. What a strange idea. How could someone take seriously any form of government that takes its direction from the whimsy of the mass of people who are uninformed as to what is at stake, or the truth of the issues. Far better, logically speaking, to reserve decisions to those in a position to be aware of the import and ramifications.

We will remember your kind offer. Don't expect many takers. From a population of greater than 2 billion, we have, this year, executed 52 people. We expect to make 150 or so by the end of the year. We are far from culling our own people. Rather, we are removing the cancer that would destroy our way of life from within.

Rome broke inside, before the Goths and Vandals ever crossed the Rhine.

Lieutenant-Colonel Jacobs
Spokesman for Executive Command
Diplomatic Corps
Protectorate of Lyras

Well Seeing as the number is significantly less than we were expecting; we can increase that price somwhat to around 50,000-100,000 Universal Nationstates Dollars per head depending on skill sets seeing as we are always on the look out for skilled diplomats. we do like to preserve life where posable as we said; execution however warrented and justifed is never the prefered option.

To: The Leadership of Lyras
From: The Errikan Government

Greetings, Spartanic nation.

Your treatment of communism, as well as your unique social structure, has recently come to our attention. Though we Errikans value freedom, we also admire extreme nationalism and passionate militarism as well as anti-communism, and thus wish to open positive relations with your admirable state.


To: All Concerned
From: The Government of the Errikan Government

Your commitment to human rights is admirable, but, fellow nations, we cannot ignore the sovereign rights of a nation. The Errikan people will not stand aside as this key right of a nation is violated, and we recommend that those threatening the state of Lyras withdraw these threats and allow the nation to be.

To: The Leadership of Lyras
To: All Concerned
From: The Government of the Errikan Government

Your commitment to human rights is admirable, but, fellow nations, we cannot ignore the sovereign rights of a nation. The Errikan people will not stand aside as this key right of a nation is violated, and we recommend that those threatening the state of Lyras withdraw these threats and allow the nation to be.

We deplore your thinly vailed threat sent in our direction; we have made no threats; we have condemed the senseless execution yes; and we have offered a reasonable alternative and discused from an interlectualy standpoint the values of Spatanism. we "recomend" that you withdraw your threats towards us or direct them more carfully in the future least you provoke someone less reasonable than us

We deplore your thinly vailed threat sent in our direction; we have made no threats; we have condemed the senseless execution yes; and we have offered a reasonable alternative and discused from an interlectualy standpoint the values of Spatanism. we "recomend" that you withdraw your threats towards us or direct them more carfully in the future least you provoke someone less reasonable than us

SIC
To: Animarnia
From: The Government of the Errikan Empire

Do not misunderstand our statement, fellow nation. Our "thinly vailed threat," as you deem it, was directed against those who threaten Lyras; thus, if you did not threaten them, as you so viemently assert, then there were no "threats towards [you]" to deplore.

Such as us. We have the reputation for being ridiculously aggressive at times, and...well, who cares what other people think, we ARE ridiculously aggressive. Hence, Errikland, learn when to keep quiet lest you catch us at the wrong time and get bombed.

Such as us. We have the reputation for being ridiculously aggressive at times, and...well, who cares what other people think, we ARE ridiculously aggressive. Hence, Errikland, learn when to keep quiet lest you catch us at the wrong time and get bombed.

It is good to know your position, McPsychoville; we hope that you know ours. We would, naturally, prefer to avoid any unpleasantries with you, and will take no unnecessarily offensive steps. However, such matters rely on your actions as much as our own.

It is good to know your position, McPsychoville; we hope that you know ours. We would, naturally, prefer to avoid any unpleasantries with you, and will take no unnecessarily offensive steps. However, such matters rely on your actions as much as our own.

Good call.

Now, in order to avoid unpleasantries, I believe the accepted protocol is you assemble a hockey team and face us on the ice. It will be unpleasant (we will probably stomp your players into the surface), but at least it won't see mass genocide.

...unless you win, that is.

Good call.

Now, in order to avoid unpleasantries, I believe the accepted protocol is you assemble a hockey team and face us on the ice. It will be unpleasant (we will probably stomp your players into the surface), but at least it won't see mass genocide.

...unless you win, that is.

(OOC: lol)

Call?

We are not familiar with that protocol, and though it seems entertaining, I am afraid that we cannot accept your offer (OOC: I have no idea how to RP such a thing and do not desire to pursue it at the moment).

Know that our nation's stance on Lyras has not changed; we are still commited to the protection of their sovereignty, regardless of whatever noble and powerful groups seek to violate it in this instance. Surely you can understand.

Well Seeing as the number is significantly less than we were expecting; we can increase that price somwhat to around 50,000-100,000 Universal Nationstates Dollars per head depending on skill sets seeing as we are always on the look out for skilled diplomats. we do like to preserve life where posable as we said; execution however warrented and justifed is never the prefered option.

Again, we thank you for your cordiality. We would remind you, however, that these are criminals. 'Exile' to a benign foreign government would, in many quarters, be seen as a reward, rather than punishment. We will, however, take the commentary under advisement, and reserve the option for use in unusual cases.

I also highlight that training of these people costs a lot of money... those that you do get will, I am sure, find use within your government.

To: The Government of the Errikan Empire
We thank you for your outspoken stand on our behalf, and are indeed willing to extend diplomatic ties to the Empire. Personnel from the Lyran Diplomatic Corps will contact you (OOC: on another thread) reference formalisation of relations. You may be interested in some of that which Lyras specialises in...

To: Those who profess beligerence.
We are the Protectorate of Lyras. We are a sovereign state, holding supreme authority within our borders. We stand united, and unbowed by threats of foreign aggression. We know you possess intelligence services. Use them. See what the Protectorate is, and what it will be. It is not for nothing that we are undaunted.

We have intelligence services. We use them.

And it is not for nothing that we do what we do. You might think it is not our place to act with aggression, but these communists are human being first and foremost, and their rights take priority over your rights as a sovereign nation. If they are to be executed for no reason other than their differing political beliefs, someone must protect them.

Now, Animarnia - a nation after our own heart - have offered you a considerable sum of money for the lives of these communists. We advise that you take that offer under serious consideration; as you may have seen with the VanStone debacle, we are perfectly willing to deploy our military to this cause.

We will not stand by and allow you to execute men and women for holding political beliefs contrary to your nation's own. We understand that your justification against letting these communists to travel elsewhere is that it would be construed as a reward; maybe we should forcibly uproot your leader, and his entire family, take them home to our nation and see whether they view it as a punishment or a reward.

Again, we thank you for your cordiality. We would remind you, however, that these are criminals. 'Exile' to a benign foreign government would, in many quarters, be seen as a reward, rather than punishment. We will, however, take the commentary under advisement, and reserve the option for use in unusual cases.

I also highlight that training of these people costs a lot of money... those that you do get will, I am sure, find use within your government.


You can always make this "Exile" sound far worse than it actually is; so they and the generall citizeny will not know the details until they actually arrive here and then would be unable to tell of the reality to your Citizeny; Terror is also a form of comunication. though exile from ones homeland can in of itself be a form of severe punishment.

[snip] You might think it is not our place to act with aggression, but these communists are human being first and foremost, and their rights take priority over your rights as a sovereign nation. [snip]

OOC: Absolute bullsh*t.
Oh, wait, that was a message to him. Disregard this.

We have intelligence services. We use them.

And it is not for nothing that we do what we do. You might think it is not our place to act with aggression, but these communists are human being first and foremost, and their rights take priority over your rights as a sovereign nation. If they are to be executed for no reason other than their differing political beliefs, someone must protect them.

Now, Animarnia - a nation after our own heart - have offered you a considerable sum of money for the lives of these communists. We advise that you take that offer under serious consideration; as you may have seen with the VanStone debacle, we are perfectly willing to deploy our military to this cause.

We will not stand by and allow you to execute men and women for holding political beliefs contrary to your nation's own. We understand that your justification against letting these communists to travel elsewhere is that it would be construed as a reward; maybe we should forcibly uproot your leader, and his entire family, take them home to our nation and see whether they view it as a punishment or a reward.

We query you on two points. Firstly, that their purported human rights take precedence over the needs of the state.

Why?

Their actions endanger the coherence of the Protectorate. As such, they put billions in jeapardy. It is not "just some political belief". It is members of the Protectorate military refusing to back their own command structure. Would you tolerate such actions within your military?

They are not human beings first. They are soldiers of the Protectorate of Lyras. Genetically enhanced, educated and trained for that purpose. Everyone in the Protectorate, myself included, is subject to this same doctrine. We are all vassals of the state, servants of the state, enforcers of the state, and, moreover, together, we ARE the state. The whole population. All of us. Every single man, woman and child.

Which brings me to the second point.

Would you, in an attempt to preserve life and human dignity, etc, launch a war wherein there will be literally billions of casualties in the event that you win, and millions in the event that you lose? What would that say about your lofty ideals of human morality?

Make no mistake. We are undaunted. We stand undaunted, sure in our strength, and strong in our knowledge of your weakness.

You can invade. It will be a bloody, hard fought battle, if nothing else. We savour the opportunity to defend our shores, and give our lives in defence of the Protectorate.

But the very act of your doing will prove us correct, that you are no more moral than we, and that your sham, your pretence of concern for the rights of the individual is nothing more than a pretext for international aggression, and wanton self-gratifying violence.

Slay us, if you can, but we are undaunted. Death is nothing compared to vindication.

Lieutenant-General Adams
Commanding Officer
Diplomatic Corps
Protectorate of Lyras

Official Response
The Armed Republic of Mer des Ennuis denies that separatist movements are gaining any form of clout, and a general crackdown has proven successful in the southern regions. Any attempt to intervene without the express permission of the Armed Republic will be treated as an invasion, and dealt with as such.

We must lastly stress that rehabilitation through imprisonment or forced labor is preferable to execution, as there is still a chance the subject can become a productive member of society once more.

- Tomasz Swietoslaw
Director, International Relations Administration

Make no mistake. We are undaunted. We stand undaunted, sure in our strength, and strong in our knowledge of your weakness.

OOC:

Now that's a good way to prevent a conflict. Insult them. Nice.

If my posting here causes problems, tell me, and I'll quit.

IC:

Romandeos must condemn in the strongest possible language the actions taken by the Protectorate of Lyras against people whose only crime is being involved in a political ideology apart from that officially practiced by the land in which they live. Communists have a bad reputation here, but we do not kill innocent people because they are communists.

~ Statement from the Romandeosian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

~ Romandeos.

We query you on two points. Firstly, that their purported human rights take precedence over the needs of the state.

Why?

Their actions endanger the coherence of the Protectorate. As such, they put billions in jeapardy. It is not "just some political belief". It is members of the Protectorate military refusing to back their own command structure. Would you tolerate such actions within your military?

They are not human beings first. They are soldiers of the Protectorate of Lyras. Genetically enhanced, educated and trained for that purpose. Everyone in the Protectorate, myself included, is subject to this same doctrine. We are all vassals of the state, servants of the state, enforcers of the state, and, moreover, together, we ARE the state. The whole population. All of us. Every single man, woman and child.

Which brings me to the second point.

Would you, in an attempt to preserve life and human dignity, etc, launch a war wherein there will be literally billions of casualties in the event that you win, and millions in the event that you lose? What would that say about your lofty ideals of human morality?

Make no mistake. We are undaunted. We stand undaunted, sure in our strength, and strong in our knowledge of your weakness.

You can invade. It will be a bloody, hard fought battle, if nothing else. We savour the opportunity to defend our shores, and give our lives in defence of the Protectorate.

But the very act of your doing will prove us correct, that you are no more moral than we, and that your sham, your pretence of concern for the rights of the individual is nothing more than a pretext for international aggression, and wanton self-gratifying violence.

Slay us, if you can, but we are undaunted. Death is nothing compared to vindication.

Lieutenant-General Adams
Commanding Officer
Diplomatic Corps
Protectorate of Lyras

OOC: On any other game then this one I would congratulate you on what you just said. That would make 90% of people at least stop and think before acting. Your second point was marvelous and the best thing you could have said to 90% of humanity. Sadly Nation States is by and large made up by the other 10%. So I think you are going to get your ass kicked, but at least you score Oration Points.

OOC: On any other game then this one I would congratulate you on what you just said. That would make 90% of people at least stop and think before acting. Your second point was marvelous and the best thing you could have said to 90% of humanity. Sadly Nation States is by and large made up by the other 10%. So I think you are going to get your ass kicked, but at least you score Oration Points.

OOC: I completely agree, though I don't think he will necessarily be pounded into oblivion, or even be defeated, by the forces which attack him now.

Premiere Gasquette condemns your actions, if not on the basis of compassion, then, on the idea that reguardless of what you have achieved as a nation is meaningless if you are surpassed by those more inclined to evolve, which the free exchange of ideas encourages. Your leaders may be wise as they come, but they are not infalliable, you must trust your people to be intelligent enough to dismiss communism as an unworkable, crackpot anarchronism.

OOC: Any anti-government freedom fighters in your country?

We query you on two points. Firstly, that their purported human rights take precedence over the needs of the state.

Why?

Their actions endanger the coherence of the Protectorate. As such, they put billions in jeapardy. It is not "just some political belief". It is members of the Protectorate military refusing to back their own command structure. Would you tolerate such actions within your military?

They are not human beings first. They are soldiers of the Protectorate of Lyras. Genetically enhanced, educated and trained for that purpose. Everyone in the Protectorate, myself included, is subject to this same doctrine. We are all vassals of the state, servants of the state, enforcers of the state, and, moreover, together, we ARE the state. The whole population. All of us. Every single man, woman and child.

These men and women have committed no crime but to differ from the accepted norm. Regardless of your arguments on education, on training, on the mass indoctrinations, they are human beings before they are "your soldiers". We don't deny that you and they are the state, that is little more than an obvious point, but that execution is warranted for believing the Protectorate is not the only conceivable way to govern a state is nothing more than murder.

You bring up the example of our military. Were our soldiers to refuse to obey orders in the field, they would be punished as a result, this we do not deny. But the simple point between our military and your state is that our soldiers have been given a set of equal choices and have freely chosen to become fighters; for you, on the other hand, there is no choice. The options here are "Believe what we tell you to believe" and "Die" - if you were somehow able to look inside a person's mind, we believe that you would find a quite shocking amount of your soldiers do not follow the ideals they are forced to but take it, preferring this part-life to death.

Which brings me to the second point.

Would you, in an attempt to preserve life and human dignity, etc, launch a war wherein there will be literally billions of casualties in the event that you win, and millions in the event that you lose? What would that say about your lofty ideals of human morality?

Make no mistake. We are undaunted. We stand undaunted, sure in our strength, and strong in our knowledge of your weakness.

You can invade. It will be a bloody, hard fought battle, if nothing else. We savour the opportunity to defend our shores, and give our lives in defence of the Protectorate.

But the very act of your doing will prove us correct, that you are no more moral than we, and that your sham, your pretence of concern for the rights of the individual is nothing more than a pretext for international aggression, and wanton self-gratifying violence.

Slay us, if you can, but we are undaunted. Death is nothing compared to vindication.

Lieutenant-General Adams
Commanding Officer
Diplomatic Corps
Protectorate of Lyras

You number 2.6 billion. That is 2.6 billion men, women and children who have from birth been forced to believe in your viewpoints; they have not been given the option of experiencing different lifestyles and coming to their own conclusions on how they wish to live, they have been forced to march down the one path you have left open.

That is not life.

Your regime is poisonous, a parasitic entity that we thank our various gods has been contained to your one nation thus far. It is one of control, one of restriction, one where the natural urges to learn and to grow mentally are suppressed, replaced only by blindness. We intervened in the slave trade operating from Strator for the same reason as we are prepared to intrude here - this is not how humans are supposed to live.

You believe that an invasion would bely our intentions of needless aggression and posturing to the world, but you miss what our true objective is - all we have ever been interested in is the protection of the men and the women who make up our great nation. Your regime poses a very real threat to that; it can only be a matter of time before your natural urge to control spreads further than just your island, and when that day comes, nobody can be truly safe short of unleashing their entire stock of biological and nuclear weaponry.

You believe yourselves strong as you know our weakness, but the only weakness that matters would lie within our fighting men. And unlike your forced soldiers, there lies no weakness. We do not claim to be more moral than you; morality cannot be quantified simply because everyone's moral compass is skewed differently. We claim to be more interested in the safety and the wellbeing of our citizens. You stand in the way of that.

We do not expect to receive aid from allies - the political landscape is clear enough to see the movements of other nationstates, and despite their condemnations of your actions, it seems unlikely that any will stand beside us to kill this plague. We know that Errikland has previously expressed no wish to engage in hostilities with our military - whether this remains so will become clearer in time.

But be under no illusions. You believe yourself united, but you are only so in the way prisoners chained together are united, and like these prisoners, we do not fear you. You recognise the amount of casualties that will occur if there can be no peaceful resolution, and so we ask you to consider the proposals of exile or foreign imprisonment.

The choice is yours.

OOC: I completely agree, though I don't think he will necessarily be pounded into oblivion, or even be defeated, by the forces which attack him now.

OOC: Well looking at what McPsychoville just said he probably will be. Either way I am sticking around to watch the fight.

[snip]We know that Errikland has previously expressed no wish to engage in hostilities with our military - whether this remains so will become clearer in time. [snip]

OOC: I think you misunderstood my nation's stance: they said that they will not seek hostilities, "however, such matters rely on your actions as much as our own," meaning that they will defend Lyras should you continue to seek to violate its sovereignty.

OOC: Well looking at what McPsychoville just said he probably will be. Either way I am sticking around to watch the fight.

OOC: May I persuade you to aid in the defense?

These men and women have committed no crime but to differ from the accepted norm. Regardless of your arguments on education, on training, on the mass indoctrinations, they are human beings before they are "your soldiers". We don't deny that you and they are the state, that is little more than an obvious point, but that execution is warranted for believing the Protectorate is not the only conceivable way to govern a state is nothing more than murder.

You bring up the example of our military. Were our soldiers to refuse to obey orders in the field, they would be punished as a result, this we do not deny. But the simple point between our military and your state is that our soldiers have been given a set of equal choices and have freely chosen to become fighters; for you, on the other hand, there is no choice. The options here are "Believe what we tell you to believe" and "Die" - if you were somehow able to look inside a person's mind, we believe that you would find a quite shocking amount of your soldiers do not follow the ideals they are forced to but take it, preferring this part-life to death.

You number 2.6 billion. That is 2.6 billion men, women and children who have from birth been forced to believe in your viewpoints; they have not been given the option of experiencing different lifestyles and coming to their own conclusions on how they wish to live, they have been forced to march down the one path you have left open.

That is not life.

Your regime is poisonous, a parasitic entity that we thank our various gods has been contained to your one nation thus far. It is one of control, one of restriction, one where the natural urges to learn and to grow mentally are suppressed, replaced only by blindness. We intervened in the slave trade operating from Strator for the same reason as we are prepared to intrude here - this is not how humans are supposed to live.

You believe that an invasion would bely our intentions of needless aggression and posturing to the world, but you miss what our true objective is - all we have ever been interested in is the protection of the men and the women who make up our great nation. Your regime poses a very real threat to that; it can only be a matter of time before your natural urge to control spreads further than just your island, and when that day comes, nobody can be truly safe short of unleashing their entire stock of biological and nuclear weaponry.

You believe yourselves strong as you know our weakness, but the only weakness that matters would lie within our fighting men. And unlike your forced soldiers, there lies no weakness. We do not claim to be more moral than you; morality cannot be quantified simply because everyone's moral compass is skewed differently. We claim to be more interested in the safety and the wellbeing of our citizens. You stand in the way of that.

We do not expect to receive aid from allies - the political landscape is clear enough to see the movements of other nationstates, and despite their condemnations of your actions, it seems unlikely that any will stand beside us to kill this plague. We know that Errikland has previously expressed no wish to engage in hostilities with our military - whether this remains so will become clearer in time.

But be under no illusions. You believe yourself united, but you are only so in the way prisoners chained together are united, and like these prisoners, we do not fear you. You recognise the amount of casualties that will occur if there can be no peaceful resolution, and so we ask you to consider the proposals of exile or foreign imprisonment.

The choice is yours.

OOC: Nicely put. Hold the thought while I compose a response... :P

OOC: May I persuade you to aid in the defense?

OOC: Most likely not. I only have a pop of 562 mill. And a military of a bit over 1 mill.

OOC: Most likely not. I only have a pop of 562 mill. And a military of a bit over 1 mill.

OOC: Ah. Well then, I will not blame you for staying out :D

OOC: Ah. Well then, I will not blame you for staying out :D

OOC: Add to it that I am a socialist country...it would be more beneficial to watch from the sidelines and help in any cleanup afterwards then the actual defense.

OOC: Add to it that I am a socialist country...it would be more beneficial to watch from the sidelines and help in any cleanup afterwards then the actual defense.

OOC: Capitalist (like me) or socialist, sovereignty is a matter for all nations. Of course, Marxist Communists (as well as Leninists, Trotskyists, Stalinists, and all other communists descended from Marxism) do not believe in national sovereignty as a real issue(thus: Workers of the world, unite!), which is one of the greatest factors in my feelings towards them.

OOC: Capitalist (like me) or socialist, sovereignty is a matter for all nations. Of course, Marxist Communists (as well as Leninists, Trotskyists, Stalinists, and all other communists descended from Marxism) do not believe in national sovereignty as a real issue(thus: Workers of the world, unite!), which is one of the greatest factors in my feelings towards them.
OOC: National sovereignty is an issue yes but he was trumpeting death to all communists and when you look at the core of it communism and socialism and even pure democracy are all more or less the same. So trumpeting death to all communists does not endear you to my nation.

OOC: National sovereignty is an issue yes but he was trumpeting death to all communists and when you look at the core of it communism and socialism and even pure democracy are all more or less the same. So trumpeting death to all communists does not endear you to my nation.

OOC: Er . . . I would have to completely disagree with the statement that they are all the same (or even that similar, in many cases); however, it is unnessesary for me to argue that point, since, even if it were true, it would not amount to a threat to your nation. This action is disposing of those who break the law in his nation (thus the matter of sovereignty); regardless if the law is not to murder, not to be communist, or not to wear white after labor day, it is a matter of law in his nation. He did not aspouse an anti-commie/socialist crusade across the world, something which would (rightly) be percieved as a threat to your nation.

Of course, I am not comparing his ban on communism (which is against something that is a legitimate threat to his society) to arbitrary laws such as not wearing white after labor day; that was just an example to note that any law, regardless of the content, is his own business so long as it only involves his own people.

OOC: Er . . . I would have to completely disagree with the statement that they are all the same (or even that similar, in many cases); however, it is unnessesary for me to argue that point, since, even if it were true, it would not amount to a threat to your nation. This action is disposing of those who break the law in his nation (thus the matter of sovereignty); regardless if the law is not to murder, not to be communist, or not to wear white after labor day, it is a matter of law in his nation. He did not aspouse an anti-commie/socialist crusade across the world, something which would (rightly) be percieved as a threat to your nation.

OOC: Of course, I am not comparing his ban on communism (which is against something that is a legitimate threat to his society) to arbitrary laws such as not wearing white after labor day; that was just an example to note that any law, regardless of the content, is his own business so long as it only involves his own people.
What I meant by my statement of them being the same at the core is that in the true forms of all three the power of the government is derived from the people. In pure democracy all decisions are made by the majority of the populace, in socialism everybody works for the whole and in times where governmental action is needed they vote just like in pure democracies, and communism is a pretty violent form of socialism. Also it is not a real threat to my nation but it is seen as a threat. And that is simply because the government of my nation does not believe that he will stop at simply outlawing communism in his nation. Yes I am aware that that is pretty nonsensical but that is the way the government works, they figure its better safe then sorry.

These men and women have committed no crime but to differ from the accepted norm. Regardless of your arguments on education, on training, on the mass indoctrinations, they are human beings before they are "your soldiers". We don't deny that you and they are the state, that is little more than an obvious point, but that execution is warranted for believing the Protectorate is not the only conceivable way to govern a state is nothing more than murder.

You bring up the example of our military. Were our soldiers to refuse to obey orders in the field, they would be punished as a result, this we do not deny. But the simple point between our military and your state is that our soldiers have been given a set of equal choices and have freely chosen to become fighters; for you, on the other hand, there is no choice. The options here are "Believe what we tell you to believe" and "Die" - if you were somehow able to look inside a person's mind, we believe that you would find a quite shocking amount of your soldiers do not follow the ideals they are forced to but take it, preferring this part-life to death.

You number 2.6 billion. That is 2.6 billion men, women and children who have from birth been forced to believe in your viewpoints; they have not been given the option of experiencing different lifestyles and coming to their own conclusions on how they wish to live, they have been forced to march down the one path you have left open.

That is not life.



We intervened in the slave trade operating from Strator for the same reason as we are prepared to intrude here - this is not how humans are supposed to live.


Who are you to determine what is life, or crime, or anything at all about a culture that you barely understand, although you may think you do? You say that you are superior to us, claiming authority by morality.

Are you not doing that which you accuse us of doing, even as we speak? We executed these people for the threat they presented to our way of life, and yet now you threaten us with destruction for the same. Where is your moral high-ground? Where is the freedom that you profess so loudly.

How can you say that we do not have life? How can you possibly make that assertion?

Our youth do not waste it worrying about where the next weeks rent will come from, or whether they will be able to have dinner tomorrow. We have have no homeless, no unemployed. There is no poverty, no epidemic of obesity, very little sickness (the results of long term eugenics and genetic engineering programs, despite the absence of a health-system as you'd understand it), no crime (unless you count minor military infractions such as being awol or the like. These infractions are usually accidental), no racial discrimination, sexism. No children are abondoned, go malnourished or uncared for.

People rise to their stations based on merit, not on anything else. Everyone in our state is treated according to their own actions and abilities. We don't worry about such existential concepts as “why are we here”?

We know why we are here. We are all here because we were bred for service by the Protectorate. We were all designed and genetically engineered for our roles within the Protectorate.


You believe yourselves strong as you know our weakness, but the only weakness that matters would lie within our fighting men. And unlike your forced soldiers, there lies no weakness. We do not claim to be more moral than you; morality cannot be quantified simply because everyone's moral compass is skewed differently. We claim to be more interested in the safety and the wellbeing of our citizens. You stand in the way of that.


You believe that an invasion would bely our intentions of needless aggression and posturing to the world, but you miss what our true objective is - all we have ever been interested in is the protection of the men and the women who make up our great nation. Your regime poses a very real threat to that;


We are no more forced to accept the Protectorate by our society than you are forced to despise it by the status quo of your own society. You who value such ephemeral concepts as “freedom”, while your ethnic minorities are prohibited from entering your better schools. You who claim tolerance, while posturing against a foreign power because we “may become a threat in the future”.

Our soldiers are not conscripts in the way yours are, or the way you would understand it. We don't drag young men, set in their ways by a culture that fights itself, kicking and screaming off to war.

Our people are our people because the Protectorate ordered that they be so. They exist because their parents were ordered to reproduce. Their birth cohorts are their family. Their military is their society. They are grow, are educated, are trained in their society, just as you are in yours. They are challenged, stimulated and grow in our society.


It is one of control, one of restriction, one where the natural urges to learn and to grow mentally are suppressed, replaced only by blindness.


You claim that the Lyran people grow blind and stupid, all natural urges repressed.

Nay, nothing could be further from the truth. A stupid soldier is a dead soldier, and a soldier that cannot adapt to his circumstance is a drone or robot who will be slaughtered in droves. There is no more stimulating, difficult or demanding profession than the art and science of war, and it is in this most dynamic of environs that we bring our national strength to bear.

As for your assertion that our people live a “part life”, we have something that other cultures never give their people.

We give them purpose. Their life has meaning. They are not an accident of biology. They are not a cosmic aberration. They are soldiers of the Protectorate. Bulwarks of the Lyran people against foreign enemies. The are motivated, focused and driven. They have a life. A life with far more substance to it that the shallow pursuit of temporary self-gratification that other states and cultures profess is freedom.


Your regime is poisonous, a parasitic entity that we thank our various gods has been contained to your one nation thus far.


But be under no illusions. You believe yourself united, but you are only so in the way prisoners chained together are united, and like these prisoners, we do not fear you. You recognise the amount of casualties that will occur if there can be no peaceful resolution, and so we ask you to consider the proposals of exile or foreign imprisonment.

The choice is yours.

Our people do not choose part-life over death. They choose life. And as no more prisoners of their upbringing than your people are prisoners of theirs.

And as you so eloquently put, the choice is OURS. Not yours to make by threat of arms, you who claims we are a threat to you. We thank Animarnia for their kind offer, and will consider it... but we consider its appropriateness on OUR terms, not on terms that make McPsychoville feel more comfortable.

Our people have life, family, education, employment, and most importantly, purpose and meaning and belief in something greater than themselves. The people we execute undermine all that.

And, as you also put, there are 2.6 billion of us. Bred, trained, educated and focused on one purpose. That purpose is war.

Our people will defend their way of life. And any attack upon us will have to fight and subdue every single man, woman and child capable of holding a weapon.

We stand undaunted.

OOC: Nicely put. Hold the thought while I compose a response... :P

[Ithankyou. I used to be on my school's debating team, but I was never very articulate, I had to have time to come up with things.]

You are correct. Your individual observations leave something to be desired, and your society is not the invincible war machine it is purported as, but you are correct. That you accept your blind devotion to the Protectorate, we believe this is foolish, but as you've made so clear, short of wiping you from the face of the planet, there is nothing we can do about it.

We do not wish for war; to send our men into your nation would be akin to marching them into a meat grinder in that we might come out victorious, we might not but it would be a war of attrition first and foremost. We still deplore your treatment of those who differ from the norm. But there is no way we can benefit the world from this war, we can accept that.

We would appreciate a different punishment for those men and women who have not committed any crime as recognised by international law, those who simply believe your viewpoints are not the way they wish to live. Those who perform terrorist acts, we have no quarrel with their execution. But if only for tolerable relations, we would like to see Animarnia's suggestion put into place.

You are correct. Your individual observations leave something to be desired, and your society is not the invincible war machine it is purported as, but you are correct. That you accept your blind devotion to the Protectorate, we believe this is foolish, but as you've made so clear, short of wiping you from the face of the planet, there is nothing we can do about it.

We do not wish for war; to send our men into your nation would be akin to marching them into a meat grinder in that we might come out victorious, we might not but it would be a war of attrition first and foremost. We still deplore your treatment of those who differ from the norm. But there is no way we can benefit the world from this war, we can accept that.

We would appreciate a different punishment for those men and women who have not committed any crime as recognised by international law, those who simply believe your viewpoints are not the way they wish to live. Those who perform terrorist acts, we have no quarrel with their execution. But if only for tolerable relations, we would like to see Animarnia's suggestion put into place.

OOC: Full marks. You have conducted this debate superbly, and not balked at discussions that many consider too intellectual or morally offensive. My hat goes off to you.

IC:

We accept your commentary, and understand that your perception of our justice system is likely to be far different. We will utilise the Animarian suggestion if and when circumstances arrive that we feel that the option is preferrable.

OOC: Full marks. You have conducted this debate superbly, and not balked at discussions that many consider too intellectual or morally offensive. My hat goes off to you.

[As would mine to you, if I were wearing a hat. I could pluck out some hair...that'd accomplish the same objective. I'd propose an alliance if such an obvious display of doubletalk from our politicians wouldn't prompt riots in the streets.]

The execution of those whom the Lyran government claim to be Communists and Secessionists can not be anything but a horrible demonstration to the world of the lengths that the Capitalist class of Lyras will resort to if it feels that its class rule has been threatened or if it feels that it needs to stop the process of losing regions that could be used to increase the image of Lyran prosperity.

Because of this horrible and inexcusable act of oppression, we feel obliged, as a country that is truly Communist and is on the move towards achieving total economic, social and political development, to respond to the government of Lyras with a condemnation of this act, for it is all we can do at this point due to our precarious material conditions.

Lyrans, Do not take this as a threatening reply to you and your "Merit-based" society. We not intend to involve ourselves in situations we can not win, and even if we were industrialized and even if we had the power to destroy you and your country, we will not do it, because it would further engulf the image of Communism in the chains of distortion and un-warranted manipulation and would lead to the increased repression of real Communists in Capitalist countries everywhere. The only way we would have to respond then, is if we were attacked and if our very existence was to be threatened.

However, take it as a harbinger of things to come, for if other revolutionary countries throughout the world realize the extent of your actions, which also is growing increasingly precarious, they too, will respond.

Sincerely,
Carl Newman
Lead Representative of the Elizibethanian Foreign Affairs Board (EFAB)

The Leocardian Military has deployed another 50,000 soldiers from its army and turned it into a Special Forces Division to demonstrate anyone who dares to threaten Communism. Leocardia pledges fully to Communist ideology and will back the political party in whichever way possible. Leocardia also threatens Lyras to stop on their demonstrations immediately, or face future war with Leocardia.

The Leocardian Military has deployed another 50,000 soldiers from its army and turned it into a Special Forces Division to demonstrate anyone who dares to threaten Communism. Leocardia pledges fully to Communist ideology and will back the political party in whichever way possible. Leocardia also threatens Lyras to stop on their demonstrations immediately, or face future war with Leocardia.

The execution of those whom the Lyran government claim to be Communists and Secessionists can not be anything but a horrible demonstration to the world of the lengths that the Capitalist class of Lyras will resort to if it feels that its class rule has been threatened or if it feels that it needs to stop the process of losing regions that could be used to increase the image of Lyran prosperity.

Because of this horrible and inexcusable act of oppression, we feel obliged, as a country that is truly Communist and is on the move towards achieving total economic, social and political development, to respond to the government of Lyras with a condemnation of this act, for it is all we can do at this point due to our precarious material conditions.

Lyrans, Do not take this as a threatening reply to you and your "Merit-based" society. We not intend to involve ourselves in situations we can not win, and even if we were industrialized and even if we had the power to destroy you and your country, we will not do it, because it would further engulf the image of Communism in the chains of distortion and un-warranted manipulation and would lead to the increased repression of real Communists in Capitalist countries everywhere. The only way we would have to respond then, is if we were attacked and if our very existence was to be threatened.

However, take it as a harbinger of things to come, for if other revolutionary countries throughout the world realize the extent of your actions, which also is growing increasingly precarious, they too, will respond.

Sincerely,
Carl Newman
Lead Representative of the Elizibethanian Foreign Affairs Board (EFAB)

Is not "from each unto their abilities, to each according to their need" the foundation of communism, according to Marx?

Along these lines, we point out the sham that communism is. To even talk about "class" within Lyras is an absurdity. The most cursory examination of our society will show you that.

Any who profess to true equality will look at Lyran society as the example of purposeful meritocracy that it is, and ponder its ramifications and import.

Those who fear their people talk of classes. Talk of persecution within. Talk of imperialism, inequality and social justice.

We have no need. We have complete equality. All are treated with complete fairness, and in a complete classless society. While Leocardians shoot people for trivialities, at least we only execute those who undermine the good order of the state.

Those that rule do so by right of ability. Not by political infighting and sham one party elections that make a mockery of choice, stifle innovation and attempt to delude people into thinking that they have the illusion of freedom and choice.

Lieutenant-Colonel Jacobs
Spokesman for Executive Command
Diplomatic Corps
Protectorate of Lyras

Is not "from each unto their abilities, to each according to their need" the foundation of communism, according to Marx?

Along these lines, we point out the sham that communism is. To even talk about "class" within Lyras is an absurdity. The most cursory examination of our society will show you that.

Any who profess to true equality will look at Lyran society as the example of purposeful meritocracy that it is, and ponder its ramifications and import.

Those who fear their people talk of classes. Talk of persecution within. Talk of imperialism, inequality and social justice.

We have no need. We have complete equality. All are treated with complete fairness, and in a complete classless society. While Leocardians shoot people for trivialities, at least we only execute those who undermine the good order of the state.

Those that rule do so by right of ability. Not by political infighting and sham one party elections that make a mockery of choice, stifle innovation and attempt to delude people into thinking that they have the illusion of freedom and choice.

Lieutenant-Colonel Jacobs
Spokesman for Executive Command
Diplomatic Corps
Protectorate of Lyras

The mass contradictions of which the Lyran government are trying to cover up from the eyes of the world are only going to eventually show itself in the most unlikely way possible. Remember our warning of being a harbinger of things to come.

In order for classlessness to actually exist in Lyras, everyone must be in control of the means of production, everyone must be able to control the factories, the farms, the railways, the roads, and the distribution centers. Not the state nor a few wealthy individuals. The idea of everyone being in control of the means of production is the hallmark of a truly Communist society and this is what exists in Elizibethania and many revolutionary countries throughout the world.

That is not present in Lyras, despite the claims of the Lyran government. Classes are not generated by inequalities in income, as the economists that are present in the Capitalist world say. Classes are generated by one's relation to the means of production.

A working class exists because they are the ones who are actually working and are actually producing wealth for the Capitalist (business-owning) class by performing a certain task, like making a shirt at a textile factory or treating waste at a waste treatment plant. A Capitalist class exists because they are the ones who control the means of production in both a manner that is direct, or in a matter that is indirect, through the state. Because the Capitalist class controls the means of production, they are thus taking the bulk of the wealth that is generated from the working class performing the tasks that they have to perform.

That is what exists in Lyras.

And because of your attempts to whitewash the situation, we have to say the following; you are the living proof of what a sham Capitalism is, because it is a system that is based on keeping humans divided, not united.

Since we do not have the military power to actually invade your country; it is all going into defending us, we want to put forward a proposal to the world, to Capitalist nations that are against the unnecessary suppression of human rights and to Communist and Socialist countries that are appalled by the new offense against the workers of the world; Any more attacks upon Communist and Secessionist activists in Lyras, and there must be limited economic sanctions applied upon Lyras to convince them to cease and desist. If they continue in their violation of human rights, then the economic sanctions should become total.

Sincerely,
Carl Newman
Lead Representative of the Elizibethanian Foreign Affairs Board (EFAB)

What I meant by my statement of them being the same at the core is that in the true forms of all three the power of the government is derived from the people. In pure democracy all decisions are made by the majority of the populace, in socialism everybody works for the whole and in times where governmental action is needed they vote just like in pure democracies, and communism is a pretty violent form of socialism. Also it is not a real threat to my nation but it is seen as a threat. And that is simply because the government of my nation does not believe that he will stop at simply outlawing communism in his nation. Yes I am aware that that is pretty nonsensical but that is the way the government works, they figure its better safe then sorry.

OOC: Whoa, sorry for being really late.

While your definition of pure democracy is correct, your definition of socialism is far too specific. In terms of ideology, any ideology which sees in terms of societies rather than individuals or other forms is socialist; this would include not only Communism but also Fascism and Nazism. In practical terms, a nation is socialist if they have nationalized industries, or other similar, government based programs; this would also include Fascism and Nazism, as well as all impure communism.

The mass contradictions of which the Lyran government are trying to cover up from the eyes of the world are only going to eventually show itself in the most unlikely way possible. Remember our warning of being a harbinger of things to come.

In order for classlessness to actually exist in Lyras, everyone must be in control of the means of production, everyone must be able to control the factories, the farms, the railways, the roads, and the distribution centers. Not the state nor a few wealthy individuals. The idea of everyone being in control of the means of production is the hallmark of a truly Communist society and this is what exists in Elizibethania and many revolutionary countries throughout the world.

That is not present in Lyras, despite the claims of the Lyran government. Classes are not generated by inequalities in income, as the economists that are present in the Capitalist world say. Classes are generated by one's relation to the means of production.

A working class exists because they are the ones who are actually working and are actually producing wealth for the Capitalist (business-owning) class by performing a certain task, like making a shirt at a textile factory or treating waste at a waste treatment plant. A Capitalist class exists because they are the ones who control the means of production in both a manner that is direct, or in a matter that is indirect, through the state. Because the Capitalist class controls the means of production, they are thus taking the bulk of the wealth that is generated from the working class performing the tasks that they have to perform.

That is what exists in Lyras.

And because of your attempts to whitewash the situation, we have to say the following; you are the living proof of what a sham Capitalism is, because it is a system that is based on keeping humans divided, not united.

Since we do not have the military power to actually invade your country; it is all going into defending us, we want to put forward a proposal to the world, to Capitalist nations that are against the unnecessary suppression of human rights and to Communist and Socialist countries that are appalled by the new offense against the workers of the world; Any more attacks upon Communist and Secessionist activists in Lyras, and there must be limited economic sanctions applied upon Lyras to convince them to cease and desist. If they continue in their violation of human rights, then the economic sanctions should become total.

Sincerely,
Carl Newman
Lead Representative of the Elizibethanian Foreign Affairs Board (EFAB)

You don't allow children to vote. You do not permit those who are mentally infirm to make decisions for a country. Your nation's focus on means, on production, and on classes shows that which you profess to be important.

What workers, we ask you? Our entire state, every living person, is a member of the Protectorate Defence Forces. Production, where possible, is automated. Where not possible, it is carried out by penal battalions until their term is up.

We are a true classless society in that there is no glass-ceiling. No barriers to advancement. No group that monopolises wealth or control. No hereditary dynasties. No mercantile bourgeouis. Decisions are made by those who have done their advancement through the state, showing by service and self-sacrifice that they can put the needs of the Protectorate before their concerns for their own hide.

While we comfortably acknowledge that senior officers are paid more than non-combatants, this is a reward and merit based reflection of ability and experience. Any country that attempts to encourage any form of innovation must, surely, do the same.

No, the sham is revealed by your actions. Those persons who threaten and undermine us are prevented from doing so, and the action discouraged forcefully. While you, you loudly proclaim to the world the wonders of communism, the delights of production and capital-control based systems, and lecture us on workers rights, you simultaneously call on the socialist block to cut our trade and economy.

Assuming we had workers, how would those actions influence the workers you so adore?

No. The sham is by communism, with its false-utopian dreams based on ideals that deny the reality of the human condition.

Lieutenant-Colonel Jacobs
Spokesman for Executive Command
Diplomatic Corps
Protectorate of Lyras

You don't allow children to vote. You do not permit those who are mentally infirm to make decisions for a country. Your nation's focus on means, on production, and on classes shows that which you profess to be important.

What workers, we ask you? Our entire state, every living person, is a member of the Protectorate Defence Forces. Production, where possible, is automated. Where not possible, it is carried out by penal battalions until their term is up.

We are a true classless society in that there is no glass-ceiling. No barriers to advancement. No group that monopolises wealth or control. No hereditary dynasties. No mercantile bourgeouis. Decisions are made by those who have done their advancement through the state, showing by service and self-sacrifice that they can put the needs of the Protectorate before their concerns for their own hide.

While we comfortably acknowledge that senior officers are paid more than non-combatants, this is a reward and merit based reflection of ability and experience. Any country that attempts to encourage any form of innovation must, surely, do the same.

No, the sham is revealed by your actions. Those persons who threaten and undermine us are prevented from doing so, and the action discouraged forcefully. While you, you loudly proclaim to the world the wonders of communism, the delights of production and capital-control based systems, and lecture us on workers rights, you simultaneously call on the socialist block to cut our trade and economy.

Assuming we had workers, how would those actions influence the workers you so adore?

No. The sham is by communism, with its false-utopian dreams based on ideals that deny the reality of the human condition.

Lieutenant-Colonel Jacobs
Spokesman for Executive Command
Diplomatic Corps
Protectorate of Lyras

First of all, our system of democracy is one that is direct and that allows each and every person, whether they be mentally disabled or a child, to decide the direction in which our country would go in. We focus on the economy because the economy affects everything, but that does not mean that we are also ignoring social and political development.

Second of all, a classless society is a Communist society, because everyone is in control of the means of production, whether those means of producing things are automated or not. Your claims that a classless society exists, just because the means of production are automated, still hold no water. In a Capitalist society, even if the manufacturing of industrial and consumer products are automated to massive extents, there needs to be still, the constant reproduction of Capital, and that means workers still need to exist in the services sector to make up for the loss of capital extraction due to the automation of industrial manufacturing. Since you also say that the reason why your society is classless is also because of the structure of the state, and the prominent role that the Protectorate Defense Forces plays in the economy and the society in the country, that means that the wealth generated in the country by the people in the service industries and in the manufacturing industries goes towards the Executive Command, not the battalions that are responsible for the maintenance of the automated system and for the provision of health care and various services to the rest of the population and it is redistributed to the rest of society. That makes the Executive Command the Capitalist class, because they control the army and in turn, control the automated means of production and the various service industries and even if the Capitalist class of Lyras came to their positions due to "merit" and "hard work", they control the fates of millions, depending on how hard they work and how profitable their work is.

For all of your claims of being Classless; why are you executing Communists when you are claiming to be essentially a de facto Communist society yourself? What is the point in that contradiction? The only way that contradiction would make sense to the common person is if Lyras is Capitalist and is a class society and that they do not want subversive ideas present because it would harm its image of being "classless" and being "equal".

It is because of the Lyran government's continued attempts to try to pull the wool over people's eyes, that we have decided to keep our proposal in place.

Sincerely,
Carl Newman
Lead Representative of the Elizibethanian Foreign Affairs Board (EFAB)