NationStates Jolt Archive

This Thread is SIC unless otherwise mentioned

Rerouting from these posts:

The Eastern European Union requests an audience with his Imperial Majesty, at his discretion, if accepted the Minister of Foreign Affairs Rudolf Ludwik will be flown to the Han Empire for the meeting. While not wishing to disclose exact details we will tell you that the issues to be discussed are of the highest priority.

[signed]
President Victor Shishenko

東歐聯合 {동구련합}

His Imperial Majesty has received indication that your government's official wishes to confer with him. Despite his busy schedule, His Imperial Majesty has decided to grant audience to His Imperial Majesty's Emissary from the East European Union. We eagerly await his arrival.

GREAT HAN EMPIRE

http://wiki.galbijim.com/images/2/20/Korea-arms2.gif

OOC: Sorry about the delay, kind of forgot about this with the chaos of last week.

IC:

Jan Kamil arrived at the location of the meeting. Originally Rudolf Ludwik was supposed to conduct this meeting, but he was sent to Stockholm for a conference about some sort of pan-European defense initiative and that being closer to home was deemed more important. Jan did not share this opinion, somehow blowing off the most populous nation in the world didn't strike him as a good idea, but that was not his to make, Jan would do his best to present the information as he was instructed to do. The Ambassador was ushered into a room where he was to meet the Emperor himself, the ambassador politely paid his respects to the Emperor and waited to be recognized before speaking.

The Emperor's emissaries made certain that Jan Kamil was well comforted away from home, and attended to his needs while the Emperor was coming. The Imperial caller announced his arrival:

"All rise, the Venerable Emperor of Celestial Empire of the Han, the Emperor Gwangmu, in the 5th Year of His Eminence."

And then, he entered the room, immediately bidding his guests at ease. Ceremonial guards went outside the room, and no more than those needed were present as the Emperor sat down at his place. The table was smaller than those traditionally used, but this was a small conference between two people - it was unnecessary to have excesses.

"My officials have told me of your need to discuss plans with me, and I have seen reason to render audience to these plans. What is on your mind?"

Sorry ladies and gents, but it's time to close the shades.

SIC

"First foremost, my President sends his regards and apologizes that Minister Ludwik could not sent as he was needed elsewhere." Jan said. "The matter I am here to discuss with you is my nation's current stance towards the Russian Soviet Federated Socialist Republics and your nation's attitudes towards them. Currently my nation views Russia as a threat, we are quite certain that Russia was behind the recent Communist Protests in Kiev and we believe they are harboring a declared enemy of the Union, Victor Bogdorski, somewhere in Belarus. We take the Russian threat very serious and my government considers Russia the greatest threat to our national sovereignty and we wish to see that threat gone. It is hoped that by opening up relations between our two nations and if possible come to some sort of agreement for mutual defense we can deter the Russians from future aggression. What is your nation's current stance with the RSFSR?"

"Russia," the Emperor said. "It is a large and enigmatic expanse. At times, we must sympathize with the people there, because the world torments them so. But at times, their own torments realize against themselves, and it is an uneasy thing for us to decide whether they can be trusted. We only support them so slightly, as their aggressions in their own country have prompted us to perceive other, more sensible and civil neighbors.

"But your government now perceives them as a threat. And it is right to see such things from them, but we see no reason to perceive them in the same light. If they seek a war against your government, it must be with good reason. And whereas the Han Empire mutually perceives reason to prevent expansionism from the Russians, we have no present interests in Europe that could not suffice as reason to protect the states there. Nonetheless, the Han Empire can be convinced to render aid, but it must be tangible in accords with our own direct and present interests. We will not wage war for such a reason, as it extends Han suzerainty over Europe - such a far and distant place for our present force projection.

"If your government seeks to improve its present defenses against a possible Russian attack, we can offer some equipment to reach those aims. But I first need to know in what way your government wishes to deter their threats?"

The Ambassador thought about this for some time before responding. "Emperor, we are prepared to use a first strike if we feel that we are threatened by the Russians. Being much smaller in area and vastly outnumbered on the ground and in the air, our generals say our chances of absorbing a Russian attack are far worse than our odds of success in the event that we initiate hostilities. We won't start a war on a whim because even if we had total surprise our chances are not that great, hence why we are looking for allies."

Pausing for a moment, Jan considers his options, what he knows, what he's been instructed to say, what needs to be done and what he has to say to get the job done. Jan decided the last two points were more important than the need for secrecy, regardless of what the politicians in Vienna thought, having the Chinese as allies would be the greatest counter to a Russian attack, the Japanese were second, any European alliance a distant third because the EEU would still have to absorb a Russian attack before the Western Europeans could be rallied. "If we can find ourselves in a favorable situation where we can be assured of victory we are ready to engage the Russians. For years our nation was a buffer for the Soviets from their enemies, almost fifty years of oppression, many in our country would not mind the reversal. Should war come we would definetly prefer to have you on our side."

The Ambassador thought about this for some time before responding. "Emperor, we are prepared to use a first strike if we feel that we are threatened by the Russians. Being much smaller in area and vastly outnumbered on the ground and in the air, our generals say our chances of absorbing a Russian attack are far worse than our odds of success in the event that we initiate hostilities. We won't start a war on a whim because even if we had total surprise our chances are not that great, hence why we are looking for allies."

Pausing for a moment, Jan considers his options, what he knows, what he's been instructed to say, what needs to be done and what he has to say to get the job done. Jan decided the last two points were more important than the need for secrecy, regardless of what the politicians in Vienna thought, having the Chinese as allies would be the greatest counter to a Russian attack, the Japanese were second, any European alliance a distant third because the EEU would still have to absorb a Russian attack before the Western Europeans could be rallied. "If we can find ourselves in a favorable situation where we can be assured of victory we are ready to engage the Russians. For years our nation was a buffer for the Soviets from their enemies, almost fifty years of oppression, many in our country would not mind the reversal. Should war come we would definetly prefer to have you on our side."

The Emperor looked at this proposal and caught a glimpse of an idea. He replied with a question: "How could you guarantee victory over the Russians, at least before we were to ally with your country against them? After all, there is much in the way of entering Russian territory (first, a question of what Russian territory I would be entering - I'm still confused about who owns what in Siberia between Kiwi and Candi), and it wouldn't be likely that an attack on Russia from our front would be as threatening as an attack on your front. Therefore, the impetus for an attack would be on your side."

"Our theory is this." replied the Ambassador. "Russia can ill afford to ignore a nation, whether it be the Kiwiland Empire or youself, gobbling up so much of their territory in Asia. With a massive army at their backdoor and so much territory to cover, the Russians will be forced to pull a majority of their forces back from Europe. Even if your nation does attack it is still entirely possible that the Japanese will also attack given their history of taking advantage of Russian weaknesses."

"Our theory is this." replied the Ambassador. "Russia can ill afford to ignore a nation, whether it be the Kiwiland Empire or youself, gobbling up so much of their territory in Asia. With a massive army at their backdoor and so much territory to cover, the Russians will be forced to pull a majority of their forces back from Europe. Even if your nation does attack it is still entirely possible that the Japanese will also attack given their history of taking advantage of Russian weaknesses."

"If it is your hope to pull the Japanese into the conflict, then why does your state bother to call upon us? It is apparent that there is more to your request than simply the pacification of the Russians."

"We wish to get you on our side because, to put it simply, you are the world's only superpower at this time, the Japanese can hardly match 1/5th of your military might, let alone equal it. Obviously we have a different meaning for the word 'pacification'. To the EEU the only pacified Russia is a Russia that has been crushed, stripped of most of her possessions and under occupation. The Russians may be bastards but they are not dumb bastards, they always find a way to rebuild and emerge victorious, this often involves the repeated conquests of Poland and the Ukraine amongst other nations. We do not trust Russia because for almost 300 years, in one way or another, Russia has somehow been involved with the oppression of the people of Eastern Europe and the Ukraine, we do not wish to see a return to those days. As I said, our government is prepared to make a first strike as soon as we deem the status quo to be tipped in our favor."

"We wish to get you on our side because, to put it simply, you are the world's only superpower at this time, the Japanese can hardly match 1/5th of your military might, let alone equal it. Obviously we have a different meaning for the word 'pacification'. To the EEU the only pacified Russia is a Russia that has been crushed, stripped of most of her possessions and under occupation. The Russians may be bastards but they are not dumb bastards, they always find a way to rebuild and emerge victorious, this often involves the repeated conquests of Poland and the Ukraine amongst other nations. We do not trust Russia because for almost 300 years, in one way or another, Russia has somehow been involved with the oppression of the people of Eastern Europe and the Ukraine, we do not wish to see a return to those days. As I said, our government is prepared to make a first strike as soon as we deem the status quo to be tipped in our favor."

The Emperor nodded and rose from his seat.

"Do you expect to solve 300 years of feuding by crushing the Russians? Reciprocity of the same struggles inflicted upon your people by the same? It has been a principle of Han military philosophy to avoid war whenever possible, but use the utmost force when needed. 'The one who excels at employing the military subjugates the enemy without engaging in battle, captures their cities without attacking them, destroys their states without protracted warfare. He fights with the aim of "preservation"... Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence.' If you wage your status quo well, you will see no need to wage war, because they will humbly submit without fighting. In this manner, both you and they are able to profit over this, and thereby gain respect for the other. But of course, you must be willing to respect them first; otherwise, all these will lead to an inevitable war, and if it is to bully the Russians, the Han will not stand as the 'sole superpower' to bully other countries in submitting to them by military force; rather, we demonstrate it through martial, moral, political, social, and institutional excellence - by our example, the world emulates us and we emulate it."

"Solve the problem? Hardly, 300 years of feuding will not go away anytime soon, there could perhaps be moments where, due to threat from outside forces, we could work together, but Russia will not sit by idly, they are looking for any chance they can get to expand, whether it be to the east or, as we fear most, the west. Just look at what the Russians are doing in Chechnya, a handful of terrorists were behind this plot and Russia is systematically trying to wipe out an entire nation, and yes, Chechnya has received formal recognition from my government as an independent state. Russia has already issued several threats against my government. We do not want war with Russia, but we see it as inevitable and therefore we seek to establish conditions favorable to our nation and its people. The EEU was formed for this purpose, to protect Poland and Ukraine from communism, Austria, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Moldova and Hungary saw the advantages of such a union and joined, the Balkan Union was formed under similar principles. To you Russia is not a threat, you can afford to bide your time and lead by example, you have a massive military to back up your sentiments. Our options are much more limited."

"Solve the problem? Hardly, 300 years of feuding will not go away anytime soon, there could perhaps be moments where, due to threat from outside forces, we could work together, but Russia will not sit by idly, they are looking for any chance they can get to expand, whether it be to the east or, as we fear most, the west. Just look at what the Russians are doing in Chechnya, a handful of terrorists were behind this plot and Russia is systematically trying to wipe out an entire nation, and yes, Chechnya has received formal recognition from my government as an independent state. Russia has already issued several threats against my government. We do not want war with Russia, but we see it as inevitable and therefore we seek to establish conditions favorable to our nation and its people. The EEU was formed for this purpose, to protect Poland and Ukraine from communism, Austria, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Moldova and Hungary saw the advantages of such a union and joined, the Balkan Union was formed under similar principles. To you Russia is not a threat, you can afford to bide your time and lead by example, you have a massive military to back up your sentiments. Our options are much more limited."

The Emperor sat back down. It seemed that the EEU diplomat was intent on bring the Han into a conflict with Russia. He carefully weighed the options: a war with Russia was not profitable, but at the time it was not unprofitable. It seemed that a war with Russia would not matter, and if it meant much to the EEU to maintain the balance of power in Europe - a tenable and risky settlement after all - he could simply agree to the whole prospect. But the one thought lingered in his mind - was this alliance a marriage of convenience or of solidarity? Which state did he prefer? Russia or the EEU?

"I think it is to your side to convince me that assisting your country against the Russians would prove to be the better alternative. After all, it is known to be an inevitable prospect - an alliance means we go to war sooner. In such a manner, what guarantees do we have that this alliance will bring to us the better conclusion?"

Become
Uber
Mentally
Posted

"I can, in good conscious, make no guarantees, they may sound great but in the end they are just words. I believe I have already stated our case as clearly as I am able, war is inevitable, whether we instigate it or not. Off the record, if you are against this alliance in the event of an offensive war I would advise you not to sign. I am of the opinion that it is very poor for relations to force a country into a war its people and leaders do not approve of. The Russians will be dealt with one way or another, we do not however want our companies to lose access to Han markets in the event of an unpopular war."

"It is sensible that you should be wary of including the Han Empire in a war that we do not find profitable. But we caution the EEU that the establish of hostilities - other than those already employed - will not be sufficient to sanction support of the Han Empire for the war at all. The aim of your ambitions is to weaken the Russians - however corrupt their disposition is. Despite their corruption, if reason prompts us, we will defend the sovereignty of all our neighbors. That said, it will be quite difficult for us to intervene, since we have not yet issued formal recognition of their state for my reign era, and therefore, we do not already have outstanding diplomatic relations. But again, I would carry this warnings to your leaders in Vienna - to cage a tiger only angers it to do worse."

The Emperor had finished speaking when an attendant came in to interrupt him.

"May it please His Imperial Majesty and His Venerable Guest - we have received news from the West that Barbarian Hordes from England and Germany have invaded France. They have stated their desires to restore order in there, but have not cited permission granted by the French state to do so; likewise, they have invaded with armed units against French forces, which resist them."

"And rightly so," the Emperor replied. The attendant left, having given the news.

"It seems that we may have something in common," he said. "The Han Empire is looking for partners in the West to endorse the Han policy of protectionism - to prevent the world from becoming expansionist. The westerners use the term 'imperialism' to describe the same actions, but we feel that it is not applicable to our state, because we are an 'imperialist' state, but we do not seek to expand our territory - only our influence. And our influence aims to restore balance and order to the world, than to exploit for self-pleasure. The British and German governments have resorted to barbarian tactics and they seek to challenge our ideology - we must discipline them in the proper ways to govern the state. Whereas we cannot promise war between Russia and ourselves, I can conceive a situation in which it turns advantageous for war with Russia - if it means the restoration of order in Europe. If you can provide evidence that the actions of their state constitute a threat to this security, we can support your war. If otherwise, we can only hope that Europe will not return to the Dark Ages, where the rule of Barbarian tribes dominated their politics - while the Orient flourished under the wise Emperors."

"Our government has been against expansionism in Europe from the very creation of our state. The Ludwik Doctrine clearly states that the Eastern European Union will intervene if anyone attempts to upset the status-quo in Europe. I do not know specifically what goes on right now in the West, but I can guess that Minister Ludwik will be informing the delegates at the conference in Scandinavian that the EEU is prepared to enact the Ludwik Doctrine and, with the Russian threat now gone for the moment and Victor in custody, we can focus our attention to the West. I suspect that cooperation between our governments will be possible on this issue as we both seem to be against the actions taking place at this time."

The Emperor nodded. "As of the present moment, our diplomatic contacts with both the United Kingdom and Germany are no longer in service, due to their incompatibility to our ultimatum. While I do not wish to push our state to war, I am forced with very few other options. They continue to ignore the calls to civilization and to the respect of French sovereignty - however weak and distorted it may seem to be. They have complained that it is anarchic, but in our tradition, they have made a desperate situation even worse by sending military troops into France - specifically the Benelux territories of the French regime. Be it as it may, the Han Empire wishes to stress that German and British cooperation is required - and that they must cease their military interactions and operations before we will contact them again. Otherwise, they are playing foul in the wind. They do a great disservice likewise to their vaunted ideals of 'democracy' - but expanding and exploiting the political and military weakness of the French and enforcing their domestic desires upon the sovereign French. We will do all within our ability to ensure they understand the rule of the virtuous action, for by it, no state can exist. We are pleased furthermore to see the tensions between Russia and the EEU diminishing. As I said earlier, there are methods to reducing tensions, promoting friendship, and cooperating with terminal enemies - even those as troubled as with your relationship with the Russians. Of course, the prudent general is a valuable commodity for the state, it is said."

"My government would like to know what your nation intends to do about the Germans. At a conference in Stockholm, Minister Ludwik requested that EEU peace-keepers be allowed to enter the Benelux to aid the Germans in their supposed rebuilding of the Benelux and the German representative replied that so called "combat arms" would not be allowed to enter but that we could send engineers to aid in rebuilding. This is, in our eyes, further proof that the Germans are hiding something and up to no good in the Benelux. My government does however intend to send some forces into the Benelux to aid in the rebuilding, we would prefer to do so without having to worry about possible war breaking out in the area."

"My government would like to know what your nation intends to do about the Germans. At a conference in Stockholm, Minister Ludwik requested that EEU peace-keepers be allowed to enter the Benelux to aid the Germans in their supposed rebuilding of the Benelux and the German representative replied that so called "combat arms" would not be allowed to enter but that we could send engineers to aid in rebuilding. This is, in our eyes, further proof that the Germans are hiding something and up to no good in the Benelux. My government does however intend to send some forces into the Benelux to aid in the rebuilding, we would prefer to do so without having to worry about possible war breaking out in the area."

"If the Germans wish to demonstrate their civility, they must withdraw their military forces from the Benelux region. They will make excuses concerning releasing anarchic forces from their supervision, but the truth is that any anarchic forces have formed as a result of their invasion. It is perhaps true that the French were inept in government, but at least they did not reveal their barbarism by invading their neighbors in these times. If your conference in Stockholm can convince the Germans to turn away from forced intervention in the civil affairs of other countries, we can consider making amends with them. As far as sending peace-keepers to the Benelux region specifically, I would prefer it if we could receive the opinion of the government in the region before infringing further in its affairs. The remarks of the German delegation are indicative that they are harboring expansionist intentions.

"Consider this - they have made remarks concerning the defense of the Benelux region, a sovereign domain of France. They have since their forced intervention made references to the region as within their right to defend it. In their discourses, they have indicated that they are assuming responsibility for the affairs of the region. What started as an ignoble attempt to restore order has become evidential of expansion of German authority into the Benelux region, after seizing it from France. In such measure, the Germans must withdraw their armed forces from the Benelux region and restore authority to the French government, or any civil government responsible for the actions of the Benelux and not of Germany. In this way, they can show the true nature of restoring order and peace.

"If they continue their ways with ignoring our demands to restore the government, we may consider harsh measures to educate them in the proper manners of a civil state."

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