NationStates Jolt Archive

Hi everyone, I just have a few questions about my tech, Post Modern Tech.
Now it is my understanding that weapons, indeed all technology, in PMT are ten years+ in excess of what exists now, but not up to Star Trek/ Gundam/ whatever else you want to mention, y'know beams and lasers and stuff.

My questions are such, what sort of improvements are we likely to see in the weapons field and what are acceptable?
How would these improvements be done, eg bullet propellants in small arms, using some different form of chemical.
Lastly, anyone know the advantages of a hand-held rail gun system? I just have been reading up on it and from what I can see it wouldn't really work...

Anyway I ask because I'm trying to make a particular type of gyrojet assault rifle and I wanted some extra info on what sort of improvements I could give it to make it a top of the line PMT weapon.

Thanks a bunch NSers who respond.

As a general rule, I think ETC guns, prototype rail weapons, coilguns, robotics, liquid body armour. Basically, browse through the future force warrior program and all the other next generation projects by the various militaries of the world. At least that's what I think.

some have super soldier programs i meen my pmt has one amooungst other b;ack projects

How would these improvements be done, eg bullet propellants in small arms, using some different form of chemical.
Probably caseless will finally get rid of their most major problems. That's all, more power won't be packed, chemistry is at the limits already.

Lastly, anyone know the advantages of a hand-held rail gun system? I just have been reading up on it and from what I can see it wouldn't really work...
I'd say "DISadvantages". Huge battery pack.


Anyway I ask because I'm trying to make a particular type of gyrojet assault rifle and I wanted some extra info on what sort of improvements I could give it to make it a top of the line PMT weapon.
I think that while R1 is ally-only in MT (and personal allies, not just pacts), I could make sell it with less restrictions in PMT.
R1 is not really done by me, but rather all the ideas and concepts belong to Max Popenker (probably you know who he is), newsgroup/mail discussions with him on the subject of future arms. I couldn't do it myself, just put the concept together into writeup form. According to people who have a way better idea about handheld weapons than me, something like that could be expected by 2030-2050 IRL. R1 could even be made in 2007, but at intolerable cost.

Gyrojet has certain advantages, but just doesn't have what it takes to be the first line weapon. It's the question "gun vs. missile/rocket" - and the answer is currently known. 300mm and above - missiles are way better than guns. 200-300mm - the area where missiles are replacing artillery, but advantages are more tactical. 100-200mm - the competition zone. 50-100mm - guns have advantages, but bulkiness makes missiles still useful at some roles. Below 50mm - missiles are limited to only very special applications.
In a battle/assault rifle, you want to hit the opponent fast, small rounds are fine, and so guns are generally the way to go, except for, again, special roles, such as where mass is critical or something has to be delivered with less stress.

I could make the final touch to the R1 design in a couple of days (just finish the drawing), and make a larger caliber version. They aren't made now just because in MT the current capabilities are more than enough.
BTW, just in case, you qualify for the R1 sale (you're in GASN only, right?).

One of the major advantages claimed by most PMT tech users are unspecified advances in material technology.

I don't see PMT as an Advantage, I see it as a possibility for Roleplaying a Modern Setting but altering it enough to give you a fresh angle on it..

I am PMT, but I still fire normal rounds from normal guns, and all my materials are documented and real...

I use some genetic enhancements, some advanced computer systems (all explained thoroughly), and some advanced vehicle and personal armor. Direct Neural Interface, and such things.

When people talk about PMT with lasers and personal railguns I feel as if I was playing an entirely separate 'genre'...

The even weirder part of PMT is the pastmodernism, or pastfuturism - the assumption that modern weapons will become obsolete and be replaced... by even older weapons. Just painted in modern colors and buzzwords.

It's a pretty common thinking error, actually: lacking information about the future, one looks at the past. The usual justification for pastmodernism is that countermeasures against modern weapons are being developed, while countermeasures against obsolete aren't. For instance, that anti-missile CIWS are being developed and anti-shell aren't, therefore missiles will become obsolete.
This theory would always hold true: the underlying fallacy is very simple - missing the fact that countermeasures are always developed against contemporary weapons, not obsolete and already defeated ones.

So, for instance, in the battleship era such pastmodernist thinking would be that armor will eventually be made to defeat all the guns, and so they'll become obsolete and it will come down to ramming each other or boarding. As, of course, nobody develops anti-ramming protection.


A more pronounced example of pastfuturism is use of swords in Star Wars and Dune, under the premise that special fields will stop all faster objects and it will come down to sword fights. While nonsensibility of that is obvious, not everyone understands that it's the same with modern and pastmodern technology. For instance, CIWS' ability to defeat guns is not advertised as nobody uses guns anymore - but a broadside of 16" shells is a far easier target for modern CIWS than a salvo of last-generation Granit or Brahmos missiles. Shells are more resistant, but they have high RCS, don't maneuver and fly slower, so are easy to hit.
Anti-armor missiles aren't developed also just because armor was removed - but people forget that during the World War II, when it was around, the flagship of the Italian navy, a very modern battleship Roma, was sunk by a Fritz X missile. That missile could pierce a battleship top to bottom before exploding, and disabled a few of them, excessive penetration making it less destructive than if the fuse was set shorter. And that thing is not even remotely comparable to modern Russian missiles in terms of mass, speed, maneuverability, accuracy or payload.

So it's quite possible that we really have two PMT "genres": the realistic future expectations, and a random set of rules which a few people agreed on. My nation, for instance, is a high-tech MT nation (there's a reason to being high-tech: the older nation was devastated by all-out nuclear exchange, and the Vaults saved mostly high-level scientists and engineers; as a downside, V10 has a deficit of lower-class workforce). I play in the peaceful PMT threads, all kinds of MT, and accept all realistic PMT, but don't mix up with the high-PMT, or generally unreasonable things.

When people talk about PMT with lasers and personal railguns I feel as if I was playing an entirely separate 'genre'...

Lasers aren't PMT. Now as for man portable EM guns...the only person I've heard of that uses them is Axis Nova. :/

Lasers aren't PMT. Now as for man portable EM guns...the only person I've heard of that uses them is Axis Nova. :/

The only man-portable EM gun in my inventory was a big bulky bazooka-type thing, that, with the development of the Minuteman PA, has since been phased out. Other than that, I have no idea what you're referring to.

I do have Lasers for antiarmor use, but they are so bulky and can only fire 10 shots before the crystals and batteries fuse and require a replacement. They can be used by a 4 man team, or mounted onto a tank chassis. It is pretty much only for my Shock and Awe program.

The problem with PMT is the requirement for increased logistics. You'll require a much greater support staff to keep up with all that increased technology. Costs also go up, so troop numbers go down.

The only man-portable EM gun in my inventory was a big bulky bazooka-type thing, that, with the development of the Minuteman PA, has since been phased out. Other than that, I have no idea what you're referring to.

Yeah that was it. Didn't know it was phased out though. :P

So basically how does PMT effect existing technologies such as tanks, smallarms, helicopters, planes etc?
I just haven't been able to see that much of a difference lately.

Oh yeah V10, I'm in the GASN and the ADAN.

So basically how does PMT effect existing technologies such as tanks, smallarms, helicopters, planes etc?
I just haven't been able to see that much of a difference lately.
I think Nakil is the best main battle tank among sensible PMT, and it's unlikely to be exceeded by anything.
Well, my AAT is higher-performance design, but there's high cost of production and ownership (expensive maintenance, 5 year service life in assault tank role), as well as strict tailoring to combined arms and network-centric warfare.

Small arms simply don't have anywhere to grow, the tech will make caseless ammo less fragile, shave off 10-20% of rifle mass, improve accuracy maybe 1.5 times, and that's all. But that all is possible in MT, just much more expensive than waiting for the natural flow of things.


Aircraft... The problem with aircraft is that they are very complicated to estimate. The most complicated and complex things constructed by man are still ships, but the recorded history of sailing boats dates back over 9000 years, and they have changed little since then - hull form was already refined. Actually, in the last 70 years there only became worse, but less work-intense to construct. Whatever you take, there's a lot of references, simple rules of thumb for everything, simplified formulas, and there's Tribon if you're more serious. People tend to understand at least the basic idea of why do they float and move.

Aircraft, on the other hand, are much less intuitive, and not as refined, although aerodynamically there's little to no headroom. But supersonic flow is more complicated than subsonic, and there are no simple rules to get the data. So many people tend to make quite nonsensical designs, ignoring even these few rules of thumb which exist, like airframe mass estimation, speed estimation, and meaning of different values.
Buzzwords and fads go even more wild.
So in general for aircraft it is called screwing up.


Oh yeah V10, I'm in the GASN and the ADAN.
That's OK. So, if you want, you'll have R1 approved.
(R1 is described here: http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_NS_Draftroom/index.php?showtopic=3400 )
That's pretty much as far as an assault rifle can get while staying more or less well-rounded. Although it slides towards automatic marksman rifle, but that's due to my small army with high-trained troops.
It's pretty expensive, but, considering that a good soldier costs a lot to train as well, and that R1 is durable and wear-resistant (it's not a wank, just that it is), that isn't a large fraction. Personal arms are anyway the lowest part of equipment expenses.

Define "PMT". And define "MT". Cos' folks, let's just face it - there will never ever be a unified version of MT, or PMT. Some may say MT is 2007 to 2020. Others from this year to 2010. Some say PMT is today all the way to 2050. In my case, it's 2007 to 2020. Technology should be used as a vehicle merely not for victory, but to expand a story's depth.