NationStates Jolt Archive

Everyone knows how the US defeated the Confederacy in the Civil War. But what if the CSA had won? In this timeline, based on Harry Turtledove's Timeline-191 series, the Confederacy, allied with Britain, France, Russia, and Japan, dukes it out with the US, German Empire, and AUstria-Hungary in a twisted version of WWII.

Wikipedia has a very nice article on this here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline-191)

In a nutshell:

-US is defeated at Antietam, gaining the CSA diplomatic recognition by Britain and France. Civil war ends in 1862.

-in the 1880s, Mexico, ruled over by a French-placed emperor, sells Sonora and Chihuahua to the CSA, igniting the Second Mexican War with the US an one side, and the CSA, Britain, and France on the other. The US is wholly defeated.

-Conscription and rationing are enacted in the US, and the country joins the Central Powers with Germany and Austria-Hungary as a counterweight to the CSA.

-WWI breaks out in 1914. After intense trench warfare, the Central Powers emerge victorious in 1917 due to heavy use of tanks. (called 'barrels' in this timeline.) US gains control of Canada.

-Heavy reparations are forced on the CSA, causing hyperinflation. The "Freedom Party," a extremist right-wing group similar to the Nazis, gain power and begin a genocide on the CSA's black population.

-Action Francaise secures power in France, reinstating the monarch and demanding the return of the Alsaice-Lorraine from Germany.

The timeline begins here, on June 1, 1941. Go.

World Map (http://turtledove.wikia.com/images/d/d8/World_of_1941_%28Turtledove%29.png)

Central Powers
United States of America- Haneastic
German Empire- Candistan
Austria-Hungary- No taxes
Ottoman Empire- Voxio
Chile-
Quebec-
Norway-
Bulgaria-
Ireland-
Poland- Futuris

Quadruple Entente
Confederate States of America- Ezaltia
Great Britain- Corbournne
France-
Russian Empire-
Occupied Canada-
Mexico-
Japan-
Argentina-

Other
China-
Brazil- Neo-Erusea
Spain-
Sweden-
Switzerland-
Italy- Bautzen
Ukraine-

If you want any other countries, just ask. I strongly recommend you read the Wikipedia article if you haven't read the books, along with all the other pages of TL-191 on Wikipedia (especially the institutions one.) Anyone interested?

Factbooks are highly recommended.

Everyone knows how the US defeated the Confederacy in the Civil War. But what if the CSA had won? In this timeline, based on Harry Turtledove's Timeline-191 series, the Confederacy, allied with Britain, France, Russia, and Japan, dukes it out with the US, German Empire, and AUstria-Hungary in a twisted version of WWII.

Wikipedia has a very nice article on this here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline-191)

In a nutshell:

-US is defeated at Antietam, gaining the CSA diplomatic recognition by Britain and France. Civil war ends in 1862.

-in the 1880s, Mexico, ruled over by a French-placed emperor, sells Sonora and Chihuahua to the CSA, igniting the Second Mexican War with the US an one side, and the CSA, Britain, and France on the other. The US is wholly defeated.

-Conscription and rationing are enacted in the US, and the country joins the Central Powers with Germany and Austria-Hungary as a counterweight to the CSA.

-WWI breaks out in 1914. After intense trench warfare, the Central Powers emerge victorious in 1917 due to heavy use of tanks. (called 'barrels' in this timeline.) US gains control of Canada.

-Heavy reparations are forced on the CSA, causing hyperinflation. The "Freedom Party," a extremist right-wing group similar to the Nazis, gain power and begin a genocide on the CSA's black population.

-Action Francaise secures power in France, reinstating the monarch and demanding the return of the Alsaice-Lorraine from Germany.

The timeline begins here, on June 1, 1941. Go.

World Map (http://turtledove.wikia.com/images/d/d8/World_of_1941_%28Turtledove%29.png)

Central Powers
United States of America-
German Empire-
Austria-Hungary-
Ottoman Empire-
Chile-
Quebec-
Norway-
Bulgaria-
Ireland-

Quadruple Entente
Confederate States of America-Ezaltia
Great Britain-
France-
Russian Empire-
Occupied Canada-
Mexico-
Japan-
Argentina-

Other
China-
Brazil-
Spain-
Sweden-
Switzerland-
Italy-

If you want any other countries, just ask. I strongly recommend you read the Wikipedia article if you haven't read the books, along with all the other pages of TL-191 on Wikipedia (especially the institutions one.) Anyone interested?


There was one of these a while back...didn't go too well. Maybe this one will be better. I'll take Germany.

There was one of these a while back...didn't go too well. Maybe this one will be better. I'll take Germany.

Yeah, I signed up for that one, too, but it fell apart. Perhaps WWI isn't that fun to RP. Will add you to the list, now go make a factbook.

I'll join as Austria-Hungary.

I'll join as Austria-Hungary.

Added, but be warned that you'll have to RP the Serbian terrorist attacks, just like I'll be RPing the black guerillas and the US has to RP the Mormon uprising.

I can take the U.S. if its fine.

I was Russia in the last one.

However I would like to sign up as Brazil to be different.

I will log in tomorrow morning and make a world factook. Right now its a bit late.

This was the old one (http://z6.invisionfree.com/Timeline_191/index.php?)

I can take the U.S. if its fine.

Added. Now I have someone to fight :rolleyes:

Bah, you'll see you Confederate "Freedom" yelling b*****d! lol

Damnyankee scum! :p

Added. Now I have someone to fight :rolleyes:

Bah, you'll see you Confederate "Freedom" yelling b*****d! lol

Can I take the Kingdom of Poland?

For our factbooks, since it's pretty hard to get stats for the GDP's and the population and # of weapons, etc. etc. for 1941, and since with an alternate history, a lot of things could be different.....

Can I take the Kingdom of Poland?

For our factbooks, since it's pretty hard to get stats for the GDP's and the population and # of weapons, etc. etc. for 1941, and since with an alternate history, a lot of things could be different.....

Yeah, you're in. Populations are the hardest part to figure out, so try your best. Weapons are pretty much the same, except for the US and CS.

Yeah, you're in. Populations are the hardest part to figure out, so try your best. Weapons are pretty much the same, except for the US and CS.
For populations I would suggest this site: http://www.populstat.info/. It has population info about every country going back into the 1800s and has population info on specific states/provinces. I plan to use it to find Austria-Hungary's population and it will work for every country. The listed populations are in hundreds so add two zeros to get the real population.

I'd like to play as the Ukraine (I've read all the books in both series and How Few Remain)

Okay, so I have the population, and for my military, it's basically looking up weapons of WWII era. Am I allowed to have 'barrels', or can I buy them from the US/RP researching them?

Okay, so I have the population, and for my military, it's basically looking up weapons of WWII era. Am I allowed to have 'barrels', or can I buy them from the US/RP researching them?
According to wikipedia, Poland had "800,000 troops, including eleven cavalry brigades, two motorized brigades, 30,000 artillery pieces, and 120 tanks of the advanced 7-TP type" in 1939 so I would just use these numbers for your army. This is assuming that Poland's strength in this timeline is roughly the same as RL, which I believe to be the case.

Poland (and probably Ukraine and Bulgaria) have German tanks, mainly a level lower than what germany has, with some elite units equipped with the best, and licenses to produce the second rate stuff. For example, germany has Mark IV tanks now, and we have Mark III's, and can produce Mark III's without buying them from germany, with maybe an armored division or two equipped with Mark IV's

Poland (and probably Ukraine and Bulgaria) have German tanks, mainly a level lower than what germany has, with some elite units equipped with the best, and licenses to produce the second rate stuff. For example, germany has Mark IV tanks now, and we have Mark III's, and can produce Mark III's without buying them from germany, with maybe an armored division or two equipped with Mark IV's

Yeah, Poland pretty much has second-rate German equipment, seeing as it's a German puppet. Ukraine probably still has old WWI RUssian stuff, and few barrels, artillery, or aircraft.

But remember, Poland is also geographically smaller in this timeline, so I would guess that it only has about 80% or so of our timeline's population in 1941.

Right now, all barrels should be in about the same level as the Sherman or T-34. The Entente gets new barrels in mid-1942, and then the Central Powers have to counter them somehow. How is up to you.

What year does this start again?

What year does this start again?

June 1, 1941.

What's the RL time in days for the RP time in years? Since we're going to be steadily progressing from 1941 and on through WWII to some distant future...

What's the RL time in days for the RP time in years? Since we're going to be steadily progressing from 1941 and on through WWII to some distant future...

It'll be on fluid time, for the most part. I'm going to make two threads: one for the American war, and one for the European war.

Hey guys, just a little heads up. But Alternate History isn't allowed on the forums unless it somehow incorporates an element of Nation States in it.

For example using your NS nation names.

I suggest you make changes to your RP before it properly begins or you'll end up going the way of E20, broken up halfway through a productive Rp with all your hard work wasted.

Yeah, Poland pretty much has second-rate German equipment, seeing as it's a German puppet. Ukraine probably still has old WWI RUssian stuff, and few barrels, artillery, or aircraft.

But remember, Poland is also geographically smaller in this timeline, so I would guess that it only has about 80% or so of our timeline's population in 1941.

Right now, all barrels should be in about the same level as the Sherman or T-34. The Entente gets new barrels in mid-1942, and then the Central Powers have to counter them somehow. How is up to you.

If I recall correctly, both sides had 1 and a half inchers (37mm) guns on tanks, the Allies went to 2 and a half inches (60mm), Central upgraded to 2 inch (50mm) then came out with the 88mm gunned tanks in mid 1943. I think those are the correct gun sizes, I do know that's how the situation went in terms of advancement.

The book also details the Central powers nuclear programs as being farther ahead than the Allies.

Hey guys, just a little heads up. But Alternate History isn't allowed on the forums unless it somehow incorporates an element of Nation States in it.

For example using your NS nation names.

I suggest you make changes to your RP before it properly begins or you'll end up going the way of E20, broken up halfway through a productive Rp with all your hard work wasted.

I think they're doind off-site thread, as the other Timeline 191 did

Poland (and probably Ukraine and Bulgaria) have German tanks, mainly a level lower than what germany has, with some elite units equipped with the best, and licenses to produce the second rate stuff. For example, germany has Mark IV tanks now, and we have Mark III's, and can produce Mark III's without buying them from germany, with maybe an armored division or two equipped with Mark IV's

Since this is 1941 (WWII) aren't Mark III's and IV's a little outdated? I mean, I would probably get second-rate tanks from Germany and Russia (since I'm kind of in between the two) from WWII era.

@Ato-Sara: If this is true, could I just change my RP nation to "Polish Empire of Futuris" since my nation in NS is Futuris?

If I recall correctly, both sides had 1 and a half inchers (37mm) guns on tanks, the Allies went to 2 and a half inches (60mm), Central upgraded to 2 inch (50mm) then came out with the 88mm gunned tanks in mid 1943. I think those are the correct gun sizes, I do know that's how the situation went in terms of advancement.

The book also details the Central powers nuclear programs as being farther ahead than the Allies.

I think they both started with 1.5, then the Entente upgraded to 3 inch, the Central Powers modified their tanks to 2.5 inch, and then they finally got 3.5 inch.

I think we might do this off-site, I'll go make an invasionfree sometime today.

Since this is 1941 (WWII) aren't Mark III's and IV's a little outdated? I mean, I would probably get second-rate tanks from Germany and Russia (since I'm kind of in between the two) from WWII era.

@Ato-Sara: If this is true, could I just change my RP nation to "Polish Empire of Futuris" since my nation in NS is Futuris?

Mark III's outdated, mark IV should be in its prime, the tank-killer's big now, and the Panther doesn't come out until mid-1943

Ukraine's a member of the Central Powers, they get invaded in the beginning

Well gents, sorry but I gave to give up the U.S. slot, I no longer have the time to do this RP.

Well gents, sorry but I gave to give up the U.S. slot, I no longer have the time to do this RP.

Well, shucks.

Well, shucks.

I'd be willing to play USA as well, since Ukraine's not very strong

EDIT- until someone else comes along

I'd be willing to play USA as well, since Ukraine's not very strong

EDIT- until someone else comes along

Well, I would rather that people only be one country, but you could just be the US if you want.

Well, I would rather that people only be one country, but you could just be the US if you want.

alright

This seems interesting, I'd like to play as the Kingdom of Italy. I cant remember if they took part in the first war or not, but at least info on their military will be readily available.

This seems interesting, I'd like to play as the Kingdom of Italy. I cant remember if they took part in the first war or not, but at least info on their military will be readily available.

They were neutral during the Great War. Added.

Bravo Uniform Mike Papa

Bravo Uniform Mike Papa

We setting up an ofsite forum soon?

We setting up an ofsite forum soon?

Yeah, later tonight or tomorrow.

Anymore countries open?

Anymore countries open?

tons take your pick from the front page, Ukraine's available as well, Itali and USA are taken as add-ons I'm not sure that were modified

Great Britain

not to rain on your parade but the mods have been going around shutting down other Alternate history RP's.

not to rain on your parade but the mods have been going around shutting down other Alternate history RP's.

That's why we are moving off-site.

Hmm...on Invisionfree, how do you mkae it so the different forums actually show up?

Hmm...on Invisionfree, how do you mkae it so the different forums actually show up?
Go to permission masks (in the admin CP) and check the boxes so that people can see them

Go to permission masks (in the admin CP) and check the boxes so that people can see them

Thanks. Forums are up. (http://z6.invisionfree.com/Timeline_191_RP/index.php)

cool.

I'm on now

I've posted my factbook and first rounds of rebellions in my areas, waiting for CSA to attack me

I've posted my factbook and first rounds of rebellions in my areas, waiting for CSA to attack me

We still ned people for at least France, Russia, UK, and Japan. Then we can start.

We still ned people for at least France, Russia, UK, and Japan. Then we can start.

fair enough, I offered some points about your military info, nothnig big, but I think the game will be more along the lines of "my tanks attack" than getting into specifics becuase we really don't know a whole lot of info

fair enough, I offered some points about your military info, nothnig big, but I think the game will be more along the lines of "my tanks attack" than getting into specifics becuase we really don't know a whole lot of info

Probably, but try to make it interesting. :)

I'd like to play the ottoman Empire.

Two questions:
1 ) Did the Ottomans gain any Territory from WWI...like the Balkans or such?
2 ) How should I calculate the statistics of the Empire? Population is the easy, but I don't know how to figure out my military size or what equipment I can choose.

I'd like to play the ottoman Empire.

Two questions:
1 ) Did the Ottomans gain any Territory from WWI...like the Balkans or such?
2 ) How should I calculate the statistics of the Empire? Population is the easy, but I don't know how to figure out my military size or what equipment I can choose.
Here is a map showing your territory: http://turtledove.wikia.com/images/d/d8/World_of_1941_%28Turtledove%29.png

For military equipment, I would probably use a mixture of what Turkey had in RL and German equipment since you are allies with them. Manpower would probably be around 3% of your population since you have conscription.

Okay, that works.

France is still open if anyone wants them.

Great Britain

Just France.

I need a little help finding info...

I need a little help finding info...

First order business is to sign up at the offsite forums here. (http://z6.invisionfree.com/Timeline_191_RP/index.php?act=idx)

The UK is pretty much the same as it was in RL, albiet a bit more authoritarian.

I need a little help finding info...
Go here for population: http://www.populstat.info/

Come on people, not sure what happened to Britain but we might need one

Sorry about the delay, Britain's registered now. I'll post a factbook as soon as possible.

ok cool

EDIT- If possible, post military units and where they are eventually too