NationStates Jolt Archive

bad news all

my heart isn't in the game right now. I have alot going on at home and at work, and I just don't have the time I need to make this a decent game.

so for now, I am going to have to call it.

I apologize for all the time you all have spent on this, and hope you found some enjoyment. I have been running a game for around 2 years now and I am frankly burned out.

In a few months I will have the energy to organize something again and when I do I will post it.




Diaspora 21 – basic rules
See Background (for the background) but players will need to name all the planets etc in their star system, and determine who settled their planet. The Diaspora occured 2021 - 2220, and included national groups (sponsered by governments), religious groups (like the Mormons for example), large corporations, collections of universities (seeking to build utopias) and large non governmental organizations (consider what a colony founded by Greenpeace or the Salvation Army would be like)

For real fun, you could even have your national group be from the nation you played last in E20


Time scale is as follows:

Game Start will be the year 2300 (as measured by the colonies of the Diaspora)

week 1
Monday - Bookkeeping and interturn information
Tuesday -January / February
Wednesday - March / April
Thursday - Friday - combat and diplomacy resolution
Saturday and Sunday - combat and diplomacy resolution, plus weekends are getting really hard for me
week 2
Monday - May / June
Tuesday - July / August
Wednesday - combat and diplomacy resolution
Thursday - September / October
Friday - November/December
Saturday- Sunday - combat and diplomacy resolution

Tech levels
All nations are tech level 10, unless they have automobile manufacturing, information technology, arms manufacturing or book publishing as their primary industry (or at least 2 of them as 2nd and 3rd industries) as of this week (Feb 26 -March 4, 2007). If they meet the exception they are tech level 11. If a tech level 10 nation has a primary world with an icy core, then it is tech level 11.

Galveston Bay, an NPC for this RP, is Tech level 13, as are some of the worlds in the Sol Sector. The Vegans and Droyne are tech level 10. The Shironi are estimated to be somewhere between 10 and 13. The unknown aliens in the Massela Sector are estimated to be tech level 11 or 12.

Major threads
Military Thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12321514&posted=1#post12321514

NPC thread (being added to as time permits)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12395661&posted=1#post12395661

Major Events Thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12399023#post12399023

Claims thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=520006

Announcements and who starts where (to be added)

The Star Map and colony ownership
Star maps
You use the basic data from the world and star system indicated, but not its population, government type or tech level. Any star system that doesn't have a planet with an atmosphere of 5, 6 or 8 is considered unhabitated, regardless of what it says on the star map information. Star systems will be assigned on a first come, first serve basis, and only planets with breathable by humans atmospheres will be allowed. Once you go to the link to your starsystem, you will find all of the information regarding the planet itself, and if you click system data, it will provide you with information on the number of planets and the orbits they are in. Assume all moons and non primary world terrestrial planets have vacuem, trace, or exotic atmospheres. Any terrestrial planet further then 5 AU from a star is a frozen iceball (like Pluto) and if closer then .1 AU, is a burning hell (like Mercury) and factories cannot be placed on those worlds (but outposts can).

Each hex by the way on the starmap is 1 Parsec, which is 3.25 light years across.

http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/map_sector.pl?FSectors=Diaspora
primary star sector

Earth (for comparison purposes)
8 Large (12,800km), Atmosphere 6 Standard Hydrographics 7, Wet World (70%),1 satellite, 4 gas giants, 1 asteroid belt, day is 24 hours, year is 365 days, gravity 1G

Earth is currently locked in an Ice Age, population has fallen to 1 billion, with 40 million more living on Luna and various other settlements. It is Tech level 9 (having clawed its way back up since the Collapse)

For roleplaying purposes, Earth is an NPC, and is classified as Earth 20 by Galveston Bay and the Solomani Alliance. Several other Earths exist and can be reached via Star Gate from Galveston Bay.

At game start, you have you own star system, and can have outposts on any star system that is within Jump 2 of your home system. Sivo and Eberly share ownership of systems within Jump 2 of either system.

Inhabited Star systems 2300
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/map_sector.pl?FSectors=Diaspora

All of the below have garden worlds and have significant human or other sentient populations. Planets are classified as A (over a billion in population), B (100 – 300 million in population), C (a few million) D (under a million) or E (under 100,000)

Economic Type is A (rich), B (average) or C (poor) in a relative sense. Worlds size C or smaller don’t have a significant budget and generally have 1 defense battalion per 100,000 people, generally equipped with arms imported from other nations.

SubSector M
Kimba Tech 9 B (population) C (economy)
Attax Tech 9 B - B
Tulane E
Domo Tech 6 B - C (protected by Galveston Bay)
Cunning Tech 9 B
Pettili E
Alone Tech 12 B-A
Jue-Ni Tech 9 B-B
Carls World Tech 9 B-A
Keeper Tech 9 B-A
Sunz Tech 9 B-A

SubSector N
Gus (Ottoman Khaif)
Semachii (Rodenka)
Prosser Tech 10 B-B
Dawns Tech 10 B-B
Biremuun Tech 11 B-B

SubSector 0
Saratov (Whittlefield)
Tygger (Abassia)
Kinos Tech 11 B (balkanized) - C
Dinklewater E
Pekhuraa Tech 11 B-A

SubSector P
Khesandu (No Taxes)
Lafiguura tech 10 B-B
Kide (sentient primitive race)(protected by treaty)
Uppsala Tech 13 B-A

SubSector L
Napiiresha (Amestria)
Amoy (Sukhaida)
Exeter (Artitsa)
Sittahar tech 12 B-A
Asena Tech 8 B-C
Tazmania Tech 11 B-A

SubSector K
Iesula (Galveston Bay) Tech 13 A
Mogumba E
Maadara Tech 7 B-C (balkanized)
Thicket E
Daridda D
Sivo (Ata-Sara)
Eberly (Canadstein)
Jump (Champren)

SubSector J
St James E (Galveston Bay colony)
Gegaasha Tech 8 B-C
Nani Tech 9 B - B(Galveston Bay ally)
Pegout Tech 8 D
Poldepi (Sharina)
Iusea Tech 10 B -C

SubSector I
Zekhessii (Samtonia)
Pesuuzu (Malkyer)
Cod Tech 8 B-C
Vigo Tech 8 E
Jene Tech 8 D
Mackanzie E
Hannah Tech 5 C
Jinchi E
Rouen Tech 9 B-A

SubSector E
Khuugar Tech 9 B-B
Ninja Tech 9 C
Mosul Tech 9 B-C

SubSector F
Nilii (Kilani)
Mohavi (Safehaven)
Soar (Lesser Ribenia)
Messier Tech 9 B - A
Atabano E
Shelagyote Tech 9 B-A
Iris Tech 9 B-C
Desekha (New Cynthia) Tech 11 A

Subsector G
Opheim (Bazalonia/Atheistic)
Ekuur (Parthini)
Dryden (Haneastic)
Raymore Tech 6 D
Shanii Tech 4 C
Kandom Tech 4 D

Subsector H
Ephraim Tech 5 E

Subsector D
Ashiizar (Middle Snu)

Subsector C
Tiasle Tech 7 B-C
Boyne (All systems)
Neefi Tech 9 B-C (10% human, rest Dolphin and Orca)
Hervestia Tech 11 B-A
Suffren Tech 11 B-B
Backman Tech 11 B-A

Subsector B
Toxey E
Ridge E
Stanton Tech 9 B-B
Arkhaapar Tech 11 B-B
Gate Tech 9 B-A
Mixem Tech 9 B-A
Jesicar Tech 9 B-A
Zeeland Tech 9 C

Subsector A
Larissa Tech 12 B-A

Background
In the later years of the 21st Century, mankind was rapidly exhausting the capability of Earth to support is growing population, the ecology was becoming increasingly damaged, and wars and pollution and global warming threatened to bring civilization to collapse.

It was during those turbulent years of the 2050s that a series of scientific breakthroughs was achieved that changed the course of history for humanity. New advances in quantum and chaos theory bring about the possibility of the Jump Gate and the key to the stars. . The Jump Gate is a interdimensional portal in space that allows a ship to travel in both space and time from one star system to another.

Another key event is the development of MHD (magneto hydrodynamic) powerplants (burning hydrogen) providing a much more powerful alternative to all previous energy sources, especially fossil fuels and nuclear power. These power plants are so powerful that they can provide the needed power required for the Jump Gates.

Near the end of the decade of the 2050s, the discovery of controlled gravity powered drive systems provides the final component of the 4th Industrial Revolution (MHD, Fusion, Ceramics and Anti Grav become the key elements). .

With this, man is ready to go to the stars. But only just in time. Even as the Americans and Chinese and Europeans raced to complete their jump gates and send colonies to useful planets, the Earth was reaching the climatic tipping point. By the end of the 2090s, the Greenland Ice Cap has melted, as has much of the Antarctic Ice Cap, and this is enough to not only flood the coasts and displace hundreds of millions of people, but its also enough to trigger the Fifth Ice Age. By the end of the 2110s, civilization on Earth has mostly collapsed, over 75% of the people of Earth have died, and no more colonists leave Earth.

The Diaspora
Before the end however, a large number of colonies have been settled and the populations have the building blocks they need to create space faring industrial societies. Some colonies died out, or faced huge die offs as alien conditions took their toll, but others thrived. Several colonies in the Sol and Diaspora sectors, notably Galveston Bay, Prometheus (Alpha Centauri), Kwantung, Sebasta, Dayan and Mejii (all but Galveston Bay in the Sol Sector) invent a new way to reach the stars, jump drive.

Unlike jump gates, which require a huge infrastructure and are essentially one way, jump drive is small enough to be mounted on individual ships and provides more flexibility, although is significantly less efficient. More importantly, most of the key information needed to recreate jump gates was lost with the collapse of society on Earth, and it took decades to rediscover.

By the end of the 22nd Century, the star-faring nations were ensuring that contact among the colonies of Earth continued, and some level of commerce began to emerge. With their big head start, all of the star-faring nations also eventually were able to recreate Jump Gates, and more importantly, 2 way jump portals big enough to handle limited personnel traffic and mail, and Jump Gate technology had also become more practical for limited InterSector trade and commerce to begin.

Nations in or in possession of an isolated systems (with at least 2 Parsecs separating them from any other star) found that they could make jumps at up to 20 Parsecs away, while nations in or in possession of a still more isolated system (with at least 3 parsecs separating it from another star) could make jumps up to 60 Parsecs distance. Nations in this unique situation could also open up 2 way jump portals to any star system at least 50 parsecs away. Although not big enough for a ship, they were large enough to walk through.

This technology enables Galveston Bay to dominate the Diaspora Sector diplomatically and commercially for most of the 22nd and 23rd Centuries, before finally a significant number of other worlds in the Diaspora managed to regain jump drive and start their own efforts in space. Luckily, Galveston Bay, a peaceful democratic and capitalist nation had no interest in dominating the region militarily and in fact did not develop warships larger then a cruiser until other nations began building fleets in the Sol Sector late in the 22nd Century.

At the start of the 24th Century, most nations in the Diaspora are now up to at least Tech Level 10, giving them Jump-2 technology, and a new balance of power and epoch in mankind’s history is about to begin.

Another critical factor coloring events is the discovery and peaceful contact and coexistence with 2 alien races during this time. In the Sol Sector, the Vegans are contacted and peaceful partnerships and ties have continued since 2150. In the Aldebaran Sector, contact and peaceful relations between the Droyne and humanity as continued since 2230. Just as interesting, ruins of an ancient civilization dating 300,000 years ago have been found on a number of human settled star systems, and the evidence is that this civilization destroyed itself in some manner. The Vegans also report that they have had contact with a human type race on occasion in the sector known to that race as the Old Expanses. No contact has yet occurred between Terran Humans and these humans as of yet, but the Vegans report that this race is called the Shironi.
The Vegans also report that an expedition that was sent toward the Galactic Core was almost completely destroyed in the Massella Sector in 2148, and the surviving ship that returned reported that the expedition was attacked and mostly destroyed by a star fleet of unknown origin.

Economics
Your Budget is available using the NS Dossier (just type in your nations name where it says to do so)
http://nsdossier.texasregion.net/main.aspx

Your defense budget is what is indicated (minus overhead) and your commerce budget is available for use for placing outposts, factories and terraforming facilities. You may also add in to this budget ONCE THE GAME STARTS income from factories and outposts.

If you don't have a military or commercial budget (as those issues don't come up every day in Nationstates), you may use 3% of your GDP for military purposes, and 2% of your GDP for commercial purposes until you actually have a military and commerce budget in the NS Economy calculator.

Due to the excesses in some of our PC nations economies, the MAXIMUM you can spend on your Military and Commerce is 10% of your GDP (each).

Unit costs will be expressed in actual cost (in $), maintenance costs (usually a percentage of its original cost), and build time. (see below or in military thread)

Off world population
Your national population is what you have for total population. Up to 20% of it can be in harsh environments (underwater cities, orbital cities) at tech level 10, 30% at tech level 11, and 40% at tech level 12 and 50% at tech level 13. Outposts, military bases and terraforming facilities have 10,000 people, factories have 50,000 people. Eventually you can build off planet cities and colonies, and information on that will be provided at that time.

Offplanet outposts and factories
Outposts provide $50 Billion a year in income if located in the same star system, 50% of that figure if Jump 1 away, 25% if Jump 2 away, and 10% if Jump 3 - 6 away. Outposts can be placed on any primary world satellite, asteriod belt, gas gaint (up to 3 per gas giants, as the outposts are on moons), and terrestrial planet.

Factories provide $250 Billion a year in income, 50% if jump 1 away, 25% if jump 2 away, and 10% of that if Jump 3 - 6 away. Up to 3 factories can be placed on Gas Giants or Asteriod belts (once again, really on the moons of the Gas Giant), and up to 10 on terrestrial planets, and for satellites, you can place 1 for every size 1000 Km in diameter your primary world is (as that governs how big the moons are). Other terrestrial planets in the system have satellites too small to be usefully used. The same restriction applies to the primary worlds outside of your star system that you colonize. You cannot place factories on a terrestrial planet greater then 5 AU from a star or within .2 AU of a star (too cold or too hot) unless your planets orbit an M class star, then disregard the .1 AU penalty for being too close

Starting Budget
At the start of the game (or when a new player starts), that player has 10 years worth of budget available to spend on starting units (see above for how to figure out your budget). You may place factories, outposts, star and spaceports, naval bases and yards and defenses anywhere in your system, but you must have an outpost to place anything else on a terrestrial planet (other then the primary world), Gas Giant moon or asteriod belt. This includes primary worlds located in star systems within jump 2 of your starting system as well.

How to figure out your budget each year
1. Look on the GNP calculator. Whatever figure is posted at the time you do your budget is what is available (as it can vary from day to day depending on how often you do issues plus your population increases each day as well, so your ideal time to do a budget is Sunday or Monday)
2. Use the average of your export and imports to figure out how many civilian spaceports and shipyards remain or have been added.
3. Use your GDP to figure out your current merchant shipping levels
4. Add up how much income you have for offworld outposts and factories. Then subtract maintenance costs for those.
5 Use the Defense and Commerce budgets given by the GDP calculator. Alternatively, if you don't have a defense or commerce budget (because it takes a while for NS issues involving them to come up and we just started), use 3% of you GDP for military and 2% of your GDP for commerce
6. Look at Commerce figure, that is what is available for colonization and offworld development like orbital starports, factories outposts etc. Any or all funding available from offworld outposts and factories can be added to this figure (so commerce budget + any offworld income allocated.
7. Look at Defense figure, that is what is available for maintenance and new military purchases. Offworld income from outposts and factories can be allocated to the defense budget as well.

Natural Resource advantages
Molten Core Worlds - reduce the cost of all units (military and colonization) by 20%, maintenance reduced by - 5% (so a unit that costs 20% maintenance becomes 15% maintenance) minimum cost however is 5%

Rocky core worlds - reduce cost of maintenance just as for Molten worlds, no cost advantage for building units

Ice Core worlds - no reductions

This has to due with geology and accessability of resources and economic strains that occur from living on basically a geologically dead world. You live on a molten core world you get earthquakes and volcanoes, but you also get a constant perculation of iron and other minerals from the core to the crust.

economic Units, bases and special projects
Colonization
unit type total cost maintenance cost build time
Outpost $250 Billion 5% 1 year
Factory $1 Trillion 5% 2 years
Terraforming facility $5 Trillion 10% 10 years

Special adjustments: Price based on placing a facility on a world without an atmosphere or that has a trace or very thin atmosphere (codes 0 -3). Cost is reduced by 50% for atmospheres that are thin, standard or dense atmosphere that is tainted. (3-9). Outposts and Factories can be placed on water worlds (treat as a vacuum for this purpose). At this tech level, bases cannot be placed on gas giants themselves (although they almost always have at least 1 moon that will work), or on planets with exotic or corrosive atmospheres.

What they do for you
Outposts and Factories provide income. Terraforming facilities allow you to convert a planet into an Earth like (or near Earth like) world. You need one terraforming facility for each 1,000 kilometers in diameter for the planet, and you can’t start until you have enough for the entire planet. Although very expensive, and time consuming, it will result in a new garden world for you eventually. Only planets with a trace, very thin, thin, standard or dense atmosphere can be terraformed

Terraforming
For every 10 years, the atmosphere is either cleaned of its taint (if tainted) or improved
One step (from trace to very thin, very thin to thin etc). Once the desired atmosphere is
Obtained, then the plants are reduced in maintenance cost to .01% (so instead of paying
500 Billion a year for each plant you pay 5 Billion a year for each plant). After 50 years,
the plants are no longer needed and the planet is permanently a garden world (unless
something really bad happens). Garden world is a relative term, but is essentially a planet with a breathable atmosphere that doesn't require special life support.

To place an outpost, factory or terraforming facility on a planet or moon other than your own primary world requires a transport unit for the entire build time for the project.

Facilities
Space port – 1 spaceport will exist for every 500 Billion in foreign trade (see you GDP calculator, it will show how much trade you have, round to nearest, and its the average of your imports and exports, not the total amount). These are commercial facilities but can be used by small and medium starships and small craft. These are ground facilities, usually about the size of a very large commercial airport in the 21st Century, and will generally be located either near a coast or in a desert area because of noise levels. Generally highways, railways and monorails lead away from the space port, and also generally a very large commercial airport will be located nearby. Spaceports act as naval bases as far as refueling is concerned and cost the same. Nations that don't have enough trade to justify a free one (at least $251 billion) must build one if they want one. Commercial spaceports can be purchased for $100 million, and maintenance is free.

Shipyard – A starship and small construction facility will usually be found for every $1 Trillion in foreign trade they have (calculated as above). These facilities build craft and ships for the commercial sector but can be used for military construction. A commercial shipyard can carry out $100 billion in starship maintenance for the military each year (twice that in wartime, but commercial maintenance is sacrificed). You can build a shipyard for the same price as a naval shipyard if you don't have enough trade to justify having a shipyard.

Orbital Starport – A large facility generally located at the Trojan points of a planet and its moons. This facility must be constructed by the government serves large and huge starships that don’t routinely land and is serviced by large numbers of small craft and spaceships that go to and from the primary world. Generally 1 is needed for every 1 billion people. Cost is $500 Billion, maintenance is 10%, and it takes 5 years to build. This facility is generally about the size of medium sized asteroid and frequently is one that has been moved and hallowed out.

Orbital Shipyard – a large facility the same size as an orbital starport, but used for the refit, repair, maintenance and construction of large and huge starships. An orbital shipyard can build 1 huge or 4 large starships plus provide maintenance for 10 huge or 40 large starships. Cost is $1 Trillion, maintenance is 10%, and it takes 5 years to build.

Military shipyard – a large ground facility that generally takes up a large area and is used to build, repair, maintain and service military spacecraft and starships. Can provide support to up to 20 medium starships or 100 small starships or 100 small craft units or the combination. Cost is $250 billion, and it takes 5 years to build.

Naval base – A large ground facility that provides fueling and support services for military starships. To support large and huge starships, at 1 interface squadron is needed for each starship that it will service. If located on a vacuam or trace atmosphere world, those ships can land directly at the base. Can fuel up to 5 huge, 20 large, 50 medium or 200 small starships at one time and up to 500 small craft units. Cost is $200 Billion, maintenance is 10%, and takes one year to build.

Special note: transport ships and courier squadrons can be purchased using your commerce budget

Major worlds in the Sol Sector (NPC)
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/map_sector.pl?FSectors=Solomani_Rim

Alpha Centauri / Prometheus
A triple star system that includes Proxima Centauri

Settled by the European Union the first wave of offplanet settlement and home to 6 billion people as of 2300. GNP is $1,000 Trillion, tech level 12 world. Prometheus also effectively controls Earth in conjunction with Lilike/Kwantung (Chinese settled, also called Epsilon Eridani) and Sebasta/Columbia (American/Australian settled). These three nations and their clients form the Solomani Alliance.

Lilike/Kwantung
Settled by China in the first wave of offplanent settlement and home to 10 billion people including 6 associated colony worlds. GNP is $1,200 Trillion, tech level 12 world.

Sebasta/Columbia
Settled by the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland and the United Kingdom in the first wave of offplanent settlement and home to 5 billion people as of 2300. GNP is $1400 Trillion, tech level 12 world.

Earth
The home world. Home to 1 billion people as of 2300, and locked in an Ice Age. Ruled by a governing council that replaced the UN, but remaining local nations have autonomy. Tech level 9 world.

A stargate is run by the Solomani Alliance, and has connections to Dinger, New Shiron, Vega, Chinon, Castor, Imir, Atalanta, Elusis, Hayt and Larmark stargates.

Larmark/Dayan
Settled by Israeli and American Jews, as well as a considerable number of Christians as things fell apart on Earth. Home to 3 billion people, including associated colonies. GNP is $500 Trillion, and tech level 11.

Finnigans/New Ireland
Settled by the Irish as sea levels began to rise and again as the Ice Age began. Home to 2 billion people including colonies, and holds the Hayt system. Tech level 11, GNP 400 Trillion

Sulieman/Kemal
Settled by Turks from Turkey and Central Asia. Home to 4 billion people including colonies. Tech level 11, GNP $600 Trillion,

Ganash/Meiji
Originally settled by a large American multinational but purchased by the Japanese government and home to 6 Billion. Tech level 12, GNP $1200 Trillion.

Major NPCs not in the Diaspora area - Non Human
The Vegans

http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/map_sector.pl?FSectors=Solomani_Rim
The Vegans (marked in red)
Hold 32 star systems, with a population of 50 Billion, tech level 10
GDP is $1600 Trillion, defense budget is $64 Trillion, and have a large fleet. They are a peaceful and long lived race.

Reference information can be found here


click on link for Vegans
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/interstellarwars/
other information can be found here
http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Vegan

(ignore anything regarding history of the Traveller universe, it doesn’t apply to this setting)

Description (from Interstellar Wars, GURPs, Steve Jackson Games)
Vegans are roughly humanoid, but they diverge strongly from Human appearance. Muan Gwi is a small world, so they are very tall – often over 7’ in height – but frail and unable to handle Terran gravity for any length of time. Their eyes are at the top of their body at the end of a long fleshy hood; strictly speaking this isn’t a “head,” in that it doesn’t contain any other sensory organs nor can it turn independently of the rest of the body. Vegans hear through a series of ear holes around their shoulders, and a mouth pierces the chest. The mouth isn’t dual purpose like a Human’s, being only for eating their vegetarian diet; breathing slits flank it on either side. Muan Gwi is quite arid, so Vegan
legs bear a superficial resemblance to those of Terran camels, especially in their broad, soft feet that can easily handle sandy ground. Vegan arms split into many tentacles just below the elbow, producing an odd “hand” that makes it difficult for a Vegan to use Human equipment and vice versa. Average Vegan lifespan is roughly 800 years.

Terrans often characterize Vegans as stoic, but this is not true. Vegans actually have a range of emotions quite similar to ours, surprisingly for such an alien race. The difference is that their emotions are much weaker than those of Humans, to the point that they are rarely swept away by what they feel. As a result, Vegans are much less ambitious and driven than Humans, and will think about things rather than act.

(from Wikipedia)
Vegan society is divided into hundreds of different tuhuir, which might be roughly translated as culture, philosophy, or tao. Each tuhuir has its own customs and traditions and its own interpretation of the proper way to live. The civil service which governs the Vegan District is a tuhuir which oversees and mediates among all the other tuhuir. Although rare, heretical and rebellious tuhuir do exist.

Archeology shows that the tuhuir were once separate societies, each associated with a particular geographic location, like countries on ancient Earth. Now, however, they are mixed together in complex patterns. Tuhuir are not hereditary; when a Vegan nears sexual maturity, he or she enters a period of search, which may last for many years. Eventually, the individual chooses a tuhuir; once made, the choice is for life. In practice, about 50% of all Vegans enter the tuhuir of their parents (the exact percentage varies with each tuhuir); about 0.5% find that they enjoy the search as a way of life and never join a tuhuir.

The Droyne
information on them can be found here
http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Droyne
they are located on 2 worlds in the Aldeberan Sector

Humanity 2300
Because many garden worlds have gravity that is either substantially weaker or stronger then Earth Norm, and genetic engineering and special technological adaptation is possible beginning Tech level 9, many of the people in the colonies have been modified by evolution or adaptation to survive better on the planets they live on. Special adapatations include people looking like Elves (in bone structure) who live on Low G worlds, and like Dwarves on High G worlds (as in Tolkien Elves and Dwarves).

In addition, the average life span has markedly increased because of gene therapies, cloning of specific organs, and other medical advances. A human living on a Tech 9 world lives + 20 years longer then in 21st Century USA, and add + 25 years for each tech level advance after that.

Livestock from Earth, specifically animals like horses, cattle etc, have a much harder time adjusting, and pure strain examples can only be found on planets within a range of 25% of Earths gravity. Considerable genetic engineering and / or adaptation of local animal life has been necessary. Earth plant life has been very successful in some colonies, but marketedly less so in others. Generally it thrives on planets with a G class sun and certain K and M class star systems where the planet is closer to the life zone of the star.

How tech level advances

Advancing one tech level takes a base 75 years but there are a number of modifiers to shorten (or lengthen) the time required.

As of 2300, all nations have been Tech level 9 or 10 since the year 2290.

So you take you base time requirement and shorten it by 10 years right away.

At this point, 65 years are required.

However, there are harsh environment modifiers to adjust for.

If the gravity of your primary world is less then .5 G, or greater then 1.5 G, reduce your timeline by 5 years.

Aridity also places pressures on a society to increase tech levels faster.
If you have 40 – 50% water you have an arid world. Temperature extremes are common in the center of continents for one thing. Reduce the time required by 4 years.
20% –30% water, you have a desert world, reduce the time required by 6 years.
Less then 20%, you have a harsh desert world, reduce the time required by 8 years.

These are a one-time adjustment.

After adjusting for time since 2290 and for environment, this is your adjusted base tech level advancement timeline.

Then you adjust each year for your tax rate, education percentage (of budget) and any applied research and development you have. These adjustments are made each year, not just one time and can change.

Tax rate adjustment.
50-100% no bonus
40-49% -1 year
30-39% -2 years
20-29% -3 years
10-19% -5 years
0-9% -7 years

the assumption is that the private sector is doing your tech research for you if they have lots of money to spend.

Education budget
Look at your GNP calculator for this one. Issues supplied by NS affect this one.
10% or less of your budget –1 years
20% or less of your budget –2 years
30% or less of your budget – 3 years
31% or more of your budget – 5 years

Applied Research and Development.
This is government money pumped directly into the universities, corporate and government think tanks and the like. You may purchase any and all of these.
Each decreases your timeline by 1 year. They each cost $500 Billion, and cost $100 Billion a year in maintenance (which can come out of your commerce budget)

Military R & D Centers
Computer and Electronics R & D
Genetic and Life Sciences R & D

Checklist
Base Tech level as of 2290 – 10 years - environmental modifiers = adjusted base tech level 2300
Annually adjust for tax rate, education budget and applied research and development

Special bonuses
If you did not have arms manufacturing, auto manufacturing or information technology has your lead industries before 2300, and one of these becomes your lead industry over the course of the game, you get a 10 year bonus to tech advancement.

Also, if a you are within 6 hexes of a nation that is higher tech then your are, you get a one time bonus of - 5 years to the timeline. The same applies if a nation is located on at a stargate.

tech level explanation
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12269144&postcount=5

Jump Drive and Jump Space
Note on the map that there are hexes. Jump distances are calculated in parsecs (3.27 light-years), which therefore is the scale of a subsector mapping grid. Jump-1, for example, indicates the ability to jump one parsec, or one mapping hex. Astrogation maps are based on this fact and are not accurate maps for astronomical purposes.

A Jump is how many hexes a starship can move each time. Each jump takes one week (no matter the length). However, jump points are at minimum 5 AU (about the orbit of Neptune) from a star, and that takes a minimum of 7 days travel to reach from the typical orbit of a inhabited planet. The distance travelled during this time depends on the jump rating of the drive. A ship with a Jump 1 Drive will travel one parsec, a ship with a Jump 2 Drive two parsecs and so on. Study of misjump reports suggests that much greater distances are possible, but at present no way to achieve them in a controllable way is known. Research is ongoing on the matter. The maximum misjump reported is 36 parsecs. The average misjump is aproximately 12.25 parsecs, deduced from the study of statistical records

Counting refueling time, generally it takes a month for each jump. A jump uses all of the available fuel of a starship, minus what is needed from travel from jump point to refueling and back out again, so generally a starship can only get in 12 jumps a year. As starships need to spend a month each year getting maintained, this means really only 11 jumps a year.

Due to the navigational requirements for making a jump, a jump cannot be conducted into a hex that doesn't have a starsystem. There is nothing to get a fix on. Therefore, you can only jump between systems that have at least 1 star. Merchant shipping will not conduct more then 3 jumps away from a commercial starport. So if a nation that you want to trade with has a starport, and is 7 jumps away, you can't reach it via trade. All starships are capable of refueling at any planet that has liquid water, or alternatively, can skim a Gas Giant for free hydrogen. So as long as a Star System has either a planet with water or a Gas Giant, you can travel through it without leaving either a jump reserve or bringing along tankers.

The Jump Drive opens a transition to jumpspace. Every ship stays in jump for around one week before entering normal space again. Ships in jump are isolated, and can not detect or communicate anything; they are totally isolated in a small bubble of space until they reemerge into out universe again. Even if two ships side by side (far enough apart to avoid field interference) jump at the same instant, they are totally alone. Cases of field overlap (interference) have been known to result in direction error, range error, system damage, or ship destruction, and is advised against. Jump drives rely on the rare earth element Lanthanum. Starships must generate immense amounts of power to jump, and therefore additional fuel must be allocated for employment of the jump drive at the rate of 10% of the ship's tonnage per parsec to travel via jump.

Although jumps are usually entered at low velocities, the speed and direction which a ship held prior to jump is retained when it returns to normal space. This fact is often employed for tactical purposes. It is not a safe practice, as the emergence point tends to have other ships approaching it for intended use; therefore emergence at speed is known to have resulted in fatal mishaps, and is therefore a serious violation of civil navigation codes with stiff penalties. These do not apply to the navy of course... who tend to place obstacles around known jump points with exactly this sort of thing in mind.

(footnote: drawn from Traveller Roleplaying Game which specifically encourages referees to tailor their universe and even adjust rules to make their game work http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Jump_Drive

Communications Times
Galveston Bay Diplomatic Mail and Courier Service - available only from worlds that have an embassy from Galveston Bay. Couriers carry mail via very small jump gates located at Galveston Bay Embassies to New Houston, Galveston Bay, and there information can be provided to your embassy. Your embassy staff there can then pass it to another nations embassy and from there it goes by diplomatic mail and courier to that nations home world via Galveston Bay (once again). Time frames are 1 day for urgent, 3 days for routine.

Galveston Bay Commercial mail service - available only on worlds that have a starport. Galveston Bay merchant ships are jump 4 and thus make fewer jumps between destinations, significantly speeding delivery time between worlds. Delivery time is between 30 - 180 days depending on distance (up to 6 jumps).

Fleet Couriers - you can establish a courier system using courier squadrons (see military thread). Military ships take 20 days between jumps, but only 8 days if they don't have to refuel. Scout ship squadrons and even destroyer squadrons are frequently used if you don't have couriers.

Regular Mail - As per Galveston Bay commercial but longer because of lower jump ranges.

Once you arrive in a star system, urgent mail and messages can be sent by tight beam Maser and Laser comm system to the target world, generally cutting up to 8 days from final delivery time.

Jump gates in Human Space

There are two types of jump gates:
Class B gates allow a ship to jump 50 hexes (parsecs) on way.
Class A gates allow a ship to jump 100 hexes (parsecs) on way.

In either case, the ship uses up sufficient fuel for a jump 1 (class B) or jump 2 (class A) which means higher tech level ships frequently have enough fuel to make another jump.

Jump Gates
Minimum tech is tech level 10, research cost is 20 years at $50 Billion a year, and initial installation requires an orbital shipyard, and cost the same to build and maintain as an orbital starport. In addition, a class B jump gate can only be built in a star system that is 2 hexes away from any other system, while a class A requires 3 hexes away from another system.

Sol Sector
Sol/Terra (Earth) Class B
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_info.pl?Sectors=Solomani_Rim&Hex=1827
The oldest and original jump gate. Now operated and controlled by the Solomani Alliance.

Dinger/Granada Class B
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_info.pl?Sectors=Solomani_Rim&Hex=1222
operated by the Granadan government.

Lamark/Dayan Class A
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_info.pl?Sectors=Solomani_Rim&Hex=3024
Operated by the Dayan government

Hayt Class B
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_info.pl?Sectors=Solomani_Rim&Hex=0313
Operated by the Finnigan government

Easter Class B
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_info.pl?Sectors=Solomani_Rim&Hex=1802&UID=
Operated by the Solomani Alliance

Atalanta Class B
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_info.pl?Sectors=Solomani_Rim&Hex=0304
Operated by the Durrakush Calphete, a world founded by Saudi Arabia and dominiated by Wahibi Sunni Moslems
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_info.pl?Sectors=Solomani_Rim&Hex=0106

Diaspora Sector
Iiselu/Galveston Bay Class A
Operated by the Republic of Texas government

Several other systems in the Sector may be suitable for a Class B (has they are at least 2 hexes from any other system but no jump gates have yet been built outside of Iiselu.

Stargates
At Tech Level 12 and beyond, small doors between worlds can be created called Stargates (essentially the same size as the one in the movie and TV series). This technology requires $100 Billion a year for 20 years to obtain, and a stargate costs $10 Billion for each one constructed. Generally they can only work for 1 hour a day at tech 12, 2 hours a day at tech 13 (increasing by 1 hour for each tech advance after that), making them impractical for commerce and warfare except in special circumstances. They have a range of 10 hexes normally, but if one is built in a system that meets the requirements for a Class A or B jumpgate, then both end points have the same range as a jumpgate.

Jumpgate income
Usuage fees generate the same income as 10 factories as commercial shipping make use of jump gates as much as possible.

Stargates produce sufficient income to pay for their maintenance and cost, but not much in the way of profit until higher tech levels are reached.

Regional NPCs in the Diaspora Sector

NPC controlled star systems 2300

Republic of Texas (ooc Galveston Bay)
Iiselu/Galveston Bay (home system)

Outpost worlds under Texan control
Fuji / Fuji 2 (main world) and Fuji 7-2 (outposts)
Moncton/Moncton 7 (outpost)
Iqorr/Iqorr 7-1 (outpost)
Whereitsat/Whereitsat 8-1 (outpost)
Ebekhar / Ebekhar 10-1 (outpost)
St. James/St Marks (main world) (outpost)
Gecko/Gecko 8-1 (outpost)
Elusive / Elusive 9-1 (outpost)
Geonia / Geonia 2-1 (main world moon) and Geonia 10-1 (outposts)
Tavara / Tavara 6 –1 (outpost)
Helena / Helena 11 – 1 (outpost)

Domo / Domo 5 (outpost) this planet was settled by Christian groups, notably the Amish and similar groups, who wished to live simply, as well as Environmentalist groups from North America and Australia who wished to live lightly on the land. It is a balkanized world with a very small central government that merely coordinates land use and land ownership. The Texas government has a treaty to provide military protection in exchange for use of the local starport.

other NPC worlds (coming soon)

I assume we have no knowledge of this mysterious fleet that destroyed the ships going coreward? What would our military leaders want to do?

Announcements and who starts where (to be added)

The Star Map and colony ownership
Any terrestrial planet further then 5 AU from a star is a frozen iceball (like Pluto) and if closer then .1 AU, is a burning hell (like Mercury) and factories cannot be placed on those worlds (but outposts can).

What about wierd systems like Ekuur where my primary planet is 8 AUs away from the suns? I assume there will be different ratios for me?

At game start, you have you own star system, and can have outposts on any star system that is within Jump 2 of your home system. Sivo and Eberly share ownership of systems within Jump 2 of either system.

Does that mean within two hexes or within two jumps, because if it is two hexes what about those nations who are tech 11 and have Jump 3?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12383706#post12383706

New Haneastic league thread

Reich Republic of Ruhr (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=519536)

Safehaven and I will be supporting a envoy to these mysterious aliens, and will be stopping by the vegans first to get some info from them. Let us know if you're interested in sending people/ships

I assume we have no knowledge of this mysterious fleet that destroyed the ships going coreward? What would our military leaders want to do?

knowledge of that incident does indeed exist at the high level, and very secret, government level

Parthini;12383675']What about wierd systems like Ekuur where my primary planet is 8 AUs away from the suns? I assume there will be different ratios for me?



Does that mean within two hexes or within two jumps, because if it is two hexes what about those nations who are tech 11 and have Jump 3?

1. Ekuur is indeed unusual in that it has an A class (supergiant) star and a F class (slightly larger then our sun) as well. For this system, figure the normal distance is tripled to 15 AU. However, jump range is also extended out that distance as well, so the jump points for Ekuur are 15 AU out instead of 5

2. 2 hexes is jump 2, so even if you have jump 3, no outposts beyond 2 hexes from home system

as the third geek economic calculator seems to be down, you can look at your budget here

http://nsdossier.texasregion.net/main.aspx

just type in your nations name where it says to do so

Safehaven and I will be supporting a envoy to these mysterious aliens, and will be stopping by the vegans first to get some info from them. Let us know if you're interested in sending people/ships

Champren would like to send some ships as well.

The mighty Star Empire of Lesser Ribena can be found here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12386146&postcount=1

Very much a work in progress at the moment. I am going for a Roman Empire based race, ruled by an Emperor benevolent to his own people but with little regard for other races. I am hoping to go for an evil empire approach to balance out all of the centrist democracies we will have. Plus it'll be fun to se how long it is before someone decides to gather an alliance and go on a crusade to put me down. If anyone else wants to make an alliance of benevolent dicatorships, empires, etc let me know i'm sure we can work something out to mutual benefit.

The mighty Star Empire of Lesser Ribena can be found here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12386146&postcount=1

Very much a work in progress at the moment. I am going for a Roman Empire based race, ruled by an Emperor benevolent to his own people but with little regard for other races. I am hoping to go for an evil empire approach to balance out all of the centrist democracies we will have. Plus it'll be fun to se how long it is before someone decides to gather an alliance and go on a crusade to put me down. If anyone else wants to make an alliance of benevolent dicatorships, empires, etc let me know i'm sure we can work something out to mutual benefit.

Just because the Ato-Saran Socialist Federation is a centrist democracy doesn't mean it can't be evil...

The ASSF views capitalistic expansionism as a tool to benefit the social welfare of the federated Ato-Saran peoples.
A tool it is prepared to use.

*Dreams of conquering battlestar fleets roaming across the sector, painted with theTrihexagram on their hulls*

Let the evilness begin...

GB RE: Molten cores.

I know that planets with molten cores geta cost reduction of 20% and a maintenence reduction of 5% (10% goes down to 5% for example). But does the maintenence count against the original cost or the new one?

For example:

I have one new orbital fighter unit I want to buy. Standard costs are $100 billion and 10% maintenence. This is reduced to an $80 billion cost and 5% maintenence.

Now do I pay 5% of $80 billion (new cost)= $4 billion
OR
5% of $100 billion (original cost)= $5 billion

Just wanted it cleared up before I started on my new fleets.

Cheers.

as the third geek economic calculator seems to be down, you can look at your budget here

http://nsdossier.texasregion.net/main.aspx

just type in your nations name where it says to do so

Doesn't seem to work for me.

Whenever I type in my nation name, "Sharina" (without the "), I get blank screens or no information pops up.

Doesn't seem to work for me.

Whenever I type in my nation name, "Sharina" (without the "), I get blank screens or no information pops up.

just use www.nstracker.retrogade.com its the best one imo.

Strange it works for me (both myself and your nation)

Your Commerce is: $33,995,009,910,122.80 17%
Defence: $39,994,129,306,026.90 20%
Education: $41,993,835,771,328.20 21%

Hope that helps.

GB RE: Molten cores.

I know that planets with molten cores geta cost reduction of 20% and a maintenence reduction of 5% (10% goes down to 5% for example). But does the maintenence count against the original cost or the new one?

For example:

I have one new orbital fighter unit I want to buy. Standard costs are $100 billion and 10% maintenence. This is reduced to an $80 billion cost and 5% maintenence.

Now do I pay 5% of $80 billion (new cost)= $4 billion
OR
5% of $100 billion (original cost)= $5 billion

Just wanted it cleared up before I started on my new fleets.

Cheers.

the maintenance reduction is for the standard cost, so its 5% of 100 billion

you can use your commerce budget to purchase transport ships and courier units (by the way)

Tech levels
All nations are tech level 10, unless they have automobile manufacturing, information technology, arms manufacturing or book publishing as their primary industry (or at least 2 of them as 2nd and 3rd industries) as of this week (Feb 26 -March 4, 2007). If they meet the exception they are tech level 11.

A powerhouse of a private sector is led by the Book Publishing industry, followed by Retail and Beef-Based Agriculture.

Amestria is tech level 11.

GB, during the time warp can neighboring tech 10 polities use Amestria's tech level 11 shipyards to build tech level 11 ships? Also, can Amestria construct tech level 11 facilities for other polities? Can a tech 11 polity provide the expertise and high level equipment to build a tech level facility while a tech 10 polity provides the bulk materials and currency?

A powerhouse of a private sector is led by the Uranium Mining industry, followed by Arms Manufacturing and Information Technology.

AHA! I'M ALL TECH-ADVANCED.

Regional NPCs in the Diaspora Sector

NPC controlled star systems 2300

Republic of Texas (ooc Galveston Bay)
Iiselu/Galveston Bay (home system)

Outpost worlds under Texan control
Fuji / Fuji 2 (main world) and Fuji 7-2 (outposts)
Moncton/Moncton 7 (outpost)
Iqorr/Iqorr 7-1 (outpost)
Whereitsat/Whereitsat 8-1 (outpost)
Ebekhar / Ebekhar 10-1 (outpost)
St. James/St Marks (main world) (outpost)
Gecko/Gecko 8-1 (outpost)
Elusive / Elusive 9-1 (outpost)
Geonia / Geonia 2-1 (main world moon) and Geonia 10-1 (outposts)
Tavara / Tavara 6 –1 (outpost)
Helena / Helena 11 – 1 (outpost)

Domo / Domo 5 (outpost) this planet was settled by Christian groups, notably the Amish and similar groups, who wished to live simply, as well as Environmentalist groups from North America and Australia who wished to live lightly on the land. It is a balkanized world with a very small central government that merely coordinates land use and land ownership. The Texas government has a treaty to provide military protection in exchange for use of the local starport.

other NPC worlds (coming soon)


new information
all Texan outposts have a civilian starport, and a small permanent patrol force (usually a ScoutRon), plus frequent visits by the Texas Navy.

the Republic of Texas has a large fleet of courier ships and light transport groups that provides mail and high priority freight and passenger services through the Sector. Whenever possible however, the Texas Mail Service tries to use national starports that are on the way (PC and NPC nations in other words, as maintaining this network isn't cheap)

Amestria is tech level 11.

GB, during the time warp can neighboring tech 10 polities use Amestria's tech level 11 shipyards to build tech level 11 ships? Also, can Amestria construct tech level 11 facilities for other polities? Can a tech 11 polity provide the expertise and high level equipment to build a tech level facility while a tech 10 polity provides the bulk materials and currency?

short answer is no, to keep things simple mostly

One last question (I promise!)

Do destroyers, couriers and scoutrons gain jump ability with tech level? Eg are tech 11 versions jump 11? The military thread doesn't say.

Thanks.

The Haneastic league is tech 11 (*runs to redo builds*)

One last question (I promise!)

Do destroyers, couriers and scoutrons gain jump ability with tech level? Eg are tech 11 versions jump 11? The military thread doesn't say.

Thanks.

smaller ships cannot be upgraded, as they lack sufficient space to make it cost effective. Generally you have to build new ships of this type when you advance in tech level

The new Malkyeri thread can be found here (it will be fleshed out as the weekend progresses):

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=519692

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12389427&posted=1#post12389427 my thread...work in progress

hey GB, if you are attacking a system say 3 hexes away and there is a enemy controlled system in-between, could you go past a enemy fortified system to get to the system behind it

I know, I know I said that was my last question, but people on chatzy made me ask!


Your defense budget is what is indicated (minus overhead) and half of your commerce budget is available for use for placing outposts, factories and terraforming facilities. You may also add in to this budget ONCE THE GAME STARTS income from factories and outposts.


5 Use the Defense and Commerce budgets given by the GDP calculator. Alternatively, if you don't have a defense or commerce budget (because it takes a while for NS issues involving them to come up and we just started), use 3% of you GDP for military and 2% of your GDP for commerce

Do we get full or half commerce budget?

Cheers.

I know, I know I said that was my last question, but people on chatzy made me ask!





Do we get full or half commerce budget?

Cheers.

full commerce budget

hey GB, if you are attacking a system say 3 hexes away and there is a enemy controlled system in-between, could you go past a enemy fortified system to get to the system behind it

depends if the places to refuyel were defended or not

hummm let me try to explain this better.
___
/--\ __
\__// 3 \ __
/ 2 \\__//= =\
\__//++\\___/
/ 1 \\__//++\
\__//**\\__/
/--\ \__/
\__/

** meaning the invading force
++ meaning that the enemy occupies the system
= = meaning the destination of the invading force, occupied by enemy
-- means empty space

as you can see, the invaders are able to get to the designated system (only 2 parsecs, jump 2); however, with the enemy in the way of the destination would the invaders have to fight through the ++ systems or could they slip right past them

and with jump or jump 3, just assume the planet is further away but the systems are still in the way of a direct route.

hummm let me try to explain this better.
___
/--\ __
\__// 3 \ __
/ 2 \\__//= =\
\__//++\\___/
/ 1 \\__//++\
\__//**\\__/
/--\ \__/
\__/

** meaning the invading force
++ meaning that the enemy occupies the system
= = meaning the destination of the invading force, occupied by enemy
-- means empty space

as you can see, the invaders are able to get to the designated system (only 2 parsecs, jump 2); however, with the enemy in the way of the destination would the invaders have to fight through the ++ systems or could they slip right past them

and with jump or jump 3, just assume the planet is further away but the systems are still in the way of a direct route.

Think of jump space as the ocean, and star systems as islands. You don't have to seize every island in the ocean to control it, but it helps. You can jump from A to C without having to secure B, but then the bad guys in system B can always jump into system A or C if they want to.

Assuming they have a fleet in B of course.

In short, you can essentially island hop like the Americans did in World War II, taking only the important systems. But so can your enemy.

Kilani thread coming soon. I'm still alive!

Think of jump space as the ocean, and star systems as islands. You don't have to seize every island in the ocean to control it, but it helps. You can jump from A to C without having to secure B, but then the bad guys in system B can always jump into system A or C if they want to.

Assuming they have a fleet in B of course.

In short, you can essentially island hop like the Americans did in World War II, taking only the important systems. But so can your enemy.

ahhh amazing, thx a lot

how many factories can we place on the main planets of other systems (assuming they have water and an atmosphere >= 4)?

how many factories can we place on the main planets of other systems (assuming they have water and an atmosphere >= 4)?

you may build anything you wish in any system you control, and deploy any military and naval forces you want there subject to the limits indicated in the economic thread (for how many of what can be built on a planet or world)

either in your home system, or in star systems within jump 2

you may build anything you wish in any system you control, and deploy any military and naval forces you want there subject to the limits indicated in the economic thread (for how many of what can be built on a planet or world)

either in your home system, or in star systems within jump 2

Is this just for the prebuild?

Parthini;12393824']Is this just for the prebuild?

just for the prebuild

once play begins on Tuesday March 6, I will create a claims thread as well as a major events thread

a NPC thread is being worked on today
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12395661&posted=1#post12395661

Hmm. GB I have a few suggestions.

Can we build orbital defence platforms around planets?

Basically a big gun with moderate armour, they would not be able to move or be moved in any way and have to be built around the planet.
Would need an orbital shipyard at the planet to build them.

They could be bought in clusters of three for about $250 Billion per cluster and there would be a limit of one cluster per 130km of diameter a planet has.


Also, maybe we could have some in system infrastructure, such as a network of Early Warning Detection platforms that use wide spectrum sensors that can detect ships jumping into the system, or jump fueling stations positioned at busy jump points that can quickly refuel spaceship that are jumping on and so reducing travel times.

Hmm. GB I have a few suggestions.

Can we build orbital defence platforms around planets?

Basically a big gun with moderate armour, they would not be able to move or be moved in any way and have to be built around the planet.
Would need an orbital shipyard at the planet to build them.

They could be bought in clusters of three for about $250 Billion per cluster and there would be a limit of one cluster per 130km of diameter a planet has.


Also, maybe we could have some in system infrastructure, such as a network of Early Warning Detection platforms that use wide spectrum sensors that can detect ships jumping into the system, or jump fueling stations positioned at busy jump points that can quickly refuel spaceship that are jumping on and so reducing travel times.

Get back to you later in the week... essentially such a unit would be called an orbital fort.

EW system will also require some thought

Space ports and orbital starports handle the jump fueling station thing

Hey GB, given how much time it takes to add up our economies, infrastructure, and ships, can the first year once again be two weeks?

Hey GB, given how much time it takes to add up our economies, infrastructure, and ships, can the first year once again be two weeks?

Why do we need two weeks the second time around? We have most of the gameplay rules and the bugs worked out, and we have a pretty solid idea how to do stuff in this game compared to the first time it started up.

Besides, for those of us who already know how to manage our economy, fleets, etc. like myself, Ottoman, No Taxes. Bazalonia, etc. this would be torture waiting yet another week or two. I don't think a 2 week game year would be necessary as it's not that hard doing a 10 year prebuild- just multiply your budgets by 10x, then build as many ships and facilities as you can, and presto, thats it.

Hey GB, given how much time it takes to add up our economies, infrastructure, and ships, can the first year once again be two weeks?

well im gonna be going on a cruise all next week for spring break so i have no objection.

Why do we need two weeks the second time around? We have most of the gameplay rules and the bugs worked out, and we have a pretty solid idea how to do stuff in this game compared to the first time it started up.

Besides, for those of us who already know how to manage our economy, fleets, etc. like myself, Ottoman, No Taxes. Bazalonia, etc. this would be torture waiting yet another week or two. I don't think a 2 week game year would be necessary as it's not that hard doing a 10 year prebuild- just multiply your budgets by 10x, then build as many ships and facilities as you can, and presto, thats it.
I second what Sharina has said.

Ah, but it took me just one hour to do my 10 year build, allocate money towards facilities and ships I wish to build, placing them strategically in systems within 2 hexes of my homeworld, and a system by system accounting.

As for the thread, just copy and paste your old one with background info, and just change Ekuur to N-something, and add your revised builds. Maybe 10 mins to do.

Besides, you could have spent like 15 - 30 minutes over a few days at a time this past week (10 year build at least).

Hey GB, given how much time it takes to add up our economies, infrastructure, and ships, can the first year once again be two weeks?

I hadn't planned on it, but we will see what the consensus is

I'm with Sharina.

I'm with Sharina.

I am with Sharina also, and Middle Snu too..

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=519695

Ato-Saran Socialist Federation N/D thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12396781&posted=1#post12396781

I am with Sharina and Middle Snu


Has play begun now?

I think so since the game is suppose to start today.

Diaspora 21 – basic rules
See Background (for the background) but players will need to name all the planets etc in their star system, and determine who settled their planet. The Diaspora occured 2021 - 2038, and included national groups (sponsered by governments), religious groups (like the Mormons for example), large corporations, collections of universities (seeking to build utopias) and large non governmental organizations (consider what a colony founded by Greenpeace or the Salvation Army would be like)

For real fun, you could even have your national group be from the nation you played last in E20


Each week is 1 year, and each day is 2 standard months (Earth calendar is used for cultural reasons).

Game Start will be the year 2300 (as measured by the colonies of the Diaspora)

Monday -- bookkeeping and general announcements
Tuesday - January / February
Wednesday - March / April
Thursday - May / June
Friday - July / August
Saturday - September / October
Sunday - November / December

Tech levels
All nations are tech level 10, unless they have automobile manufacturing, information technology, arms manufacturing or book publishing as their primary industry (or at least 2 of them as 2nd and 3rd industries) as of this week (Feb 26 -March 4, 2007). If they meet the exception they are tech level 11. If a tech level 10 nation has a primary world with an icy core, then it is tech level 11.

Galveston Bay, an NPC for this RP, is Tech level 13, as are some of the worlds in the Sol Sector. The Vegans and Droyne are tech level 10. The Shironi are estimated to be somewhere between 10 and 13. The unknown aliens in the Massela Sector are estimated to be tech level 11 or 12.

Major threads
Military Thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12321514&posted=1#post12321514

NPC thread (being added to as time permits)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12395661&posted=1#post12395661

Major events thread
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12399023#post12399023

a major events, NPC and claims threads will be created once the game starts on Tuesday, March 6
for now post in this thread.

major events thread created
I will post some actual events as time permits today

BSG-3 makes a jump to Nike to support the Ribenan claim there. It is to leave 3 destroyer squadrons and half of the cruisers behind before making a jump to Teslin (using fuel from the tankers to refuel if its quicker than using hydrogen skimmed from gas giants). BSG-4 is to jump to Akkokeek and follow the same procedure heading for Avat. The admirals have orders to secure the systems for the Ribenan Empire at almost any cost, before resorting to violence though a diplomatic solution to the problem should be persued. If possible a small force from BSG 4 (a few cruisers and destroyers) is to be dispatched to secure a foothold in subsector B at unsuited, though this is of a lower priority than the aforementioned planets.

In order to cover the force BSG-2 is to jump to Allinashar and station itself at the base there and be on standby to provide reinforcements to the other BSGs if requested.

Just so that everyone sees this, whilst the claims thread is not yet active.

I'm with Sharina and the hordes of people who also voiced support

I have my new News / Diplomatic thread (Version 2.0) up finally.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=520029

Announcements and who starts where (to be added)

The Star Map and colony ownership
Star maps
You use the basic data from the world and star system indicated, but not its population, government type or tech level. Any star system that doesn't have a planet with an atmosphere of 5, 6 or 8 is considered unhabitated, regardless of what it says on the star map information. Star systems will be assigned on a first come, first serve basis, and only planets with breathable by humans atmospheres will be allowed. Once you go to the link to your starsystem, you will find all of the information regarding the planet itself, and if you click system data, it will provide you with information on the number of planets and the orbits they are in. Assume all moons and non primary world terrestrial planets have vacuem, trace, or exotic atmospheres. Any terrestrial planet further then 5 AU from a star is a frozen iceball (like Pluto) and if closer then .1 AU, is a burning hell (like Mercury) and factories cannot be placed on those worlds (but outposts can).

Each hex by the way on the starmap is 1 Parsec, which is 3.25 light years across.

http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/map_sector.pl?FSectors=Diaspora
primary star sector

Earth (for comparison purposes)
8 Large (12,800km), Atmosphere 6 Standard Hydrographics 7, Wet World (70%),1 satellite, 4 gas giants, 1 asteroid belt, day is 24 hours, year is 365 days, gravity 1G

Earth is currently locked in an Ice Age, population has fallen to 1 billion, with 40 million more living on Luna and various other settlements. It is Tech level 9 (having clawed its way back up since the Collapse)

For roleplaying purposes, Earth is an NPC, and is classified as Earth 20 by Galveston Bay and the Solomani Alliance. Several other Earths exist and can be reached via Star Gate from Galveston Bay.

At game start, you have you own star system, and can have outposts on any star system that is within Jump 2 of your home system. Sivo and Eberly share ownership of systems within Jump 2 of either system.

Inhabited Star systems 2300
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/map_sector.pl?FSectors=Diaspora

All of the below have garden worlds and have significant human or other sentient populations. Planets are classified as A (over a billion in population), B (100 – 300 million in population), C (a few million) D (under a million) or E (under 100,000)

SubSector M
Kimba Tech 9 B
Attax Tech 9 B
Tulane E
Domo Tech 6 B (protected by Galveston Bay)
Cunning Tech 9 B
Pettili E
Alone Tech 12 B
Jue-Ni Tech 9 B
Carls World Tech 9 B
Keeper Tech 9 B
Sunz Tech 9 B

SubSector N
Gus (Ottoman Khaif)
Semachii (Rodenka)
Prosser Tech 10 B
Dawns Tech 10 B
Biremuun Tech 11 B

SubSector 0
Saratov (Whittlefield)
Tygger (Abassia)
Kinos Tech 11 B (balkanized)
Dinklewater E
Pekhuraa Tech 11 B

SubSector P
Khesandu (No Taxes)
Lafiguura tech 10 B
Kide (sentient primitive race)(protected by treaty)
Uppsala Tech 13 B

SubSector L
Napiiresha (Amestria)
Amoy (Sukhaida)
Exeter (Artitsa)
Sittahar tech 12 B
Asena Tech 8 B
Tazmania Tech 11 B

SubSector K
Iesula (Galveston Bay) Tech 13 A
Mogumba E
Maadara Tech 7 B (balkanized)
Thicket E
Daridda D
Sivo (Ata-Sara)
Eberly (Canadstein)
Jump (Champren)

SubSector J
St James E (Galveston Bay colony)
Gegaasha Tech 8 B
Nani Tech 9 B (Galveston Bay ally)
Pegout Tech 8 D
Poldepi (Sharina)
Iusea Tech 10 B

SubSector I
Zekhessii (Samtonia)
Pesuuzu (Malkyer)
Cod Tech 8 B
Vigo Tech 8 E
Jene Tech 8 D
Mackanzie E
Hannah Tech 5 C
Jinchi E
Rouen Tech 9 B

SubSector E
Khuugar Tech 9 B
Ninja Tech 9 C
Mosul Tech 9 B

SubSector F
Nilii (Kilani)
Mohavi (Safehaven)
Soar (Lesser Ribenia)
Messier Tech 9 B
Atabano E
Shelagyote Tech 9 B
Iris Tech 9 B
Desekha (New Cynthia) Tech 11 A

Subsector G
Opheim (Bazalonia/Atheistic)
Ekuur (Parthini)
Dryden (Haneastic)
Raymore Tech 6 D
Shanii Tech 4 C
Kandom Tech 4 D

Subsector H
Ephraim Tech 5 E

Subsector D
Ashiizar (Middle Snu)

Subsector C
Tiasle Tech 7 B
Boyne Tech 9 B
Neefi Tech 9 B (10% human, rest Dolphin and Orca)
Hervestia Tech 11 B
Suffren Tech 11 B
Backman Tech 11 B

Subsector B
Toxey E
Ridge E
Stanton Tech 9 B
Arkhaapar Tech 11 B
Gate Tech 9 B
Mixem Tech 9 B
Jesicar Tech 9 B
Zeeland Tech 9 C

Subsector A
Larissa Tech 12 B


NOTE

Alamo News Service
March 21, 2300
Dateline Zurich/Earth

The Solomani Alliance and Galveston Bay announced today the signing of a commercial treaty. Both nations will allow each others nations to use their jump gates for commercial and private shipping and with adequate notice military shipping.

In addition, both nations announced in a joint statement that the use of nuclear or kinetic energy bombardment against a population center anywhere in Human Space would result in intervention against the culprit. Mejii and Dayan also announced that they would join in the with 2 powers against such a culprit as well.

The Treaty powers also announced that commercial shipping from other nations would also be able to use their jump gates, but that military shipping would not be able to do so.

Is it still possible to join this game?

What happened to Poznan?

Is it still possible to join this game?

maybe.. send me a TG

I did, with my "All Systems" NS account, a more recent one I made. (Found it.)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=519931

theres my thread

military units commin soon

NPC economic templates and general rules for when you conquer or control them found here

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12395614&postcount=2

We have some serious game balance issues after looking over builds. If not corrected, the game will fail.

This should hopefully take care of it (see economics section as well)

Due to the excesses in some of our PC nations economies, the MAXIMUM you can spend on your Military and Commerce is 10% of your GDP (each). If you have a private sector that is 50% or less of your economy, you do NOT get free civilian starports, shipyards and merchant ships. There isn't enough capital in your economy to buy them as you government has it all. Therefore, you will have to buy them so you have enough to support your economy (see starports, shipyards and military thread for transports for proper proportions on that)

We have some serious game balance issues after looking over builds. If not corrected, the game will fail.

This should hopefully take care of it (see economics section as well)

Due to the excesses in some of our PC nations economies, the MAXIMUM you can spend on your Military and Commerce is 10% of your GDP (each). If you have a private sector that is 50% or less of your economy, you do NOT get free civilian starports, shipyards and merchant ships. There isn't enough capital in your economy to buy them as you government has it all. Therefore, you will have to buy them so you have enough to support your economy (see starports, shipyards and military thread for transports for proper proportions on that)

I have two problems with this, firstly making you pay for commercial stuff if you have a high tax rate is unfairly penalizing people with the 100% tax rate bug. I can't change my tax rate and shouldn't be punished for it.

Secondly if we are going to have so many complicated modifcations to the some times random and always over the top system that is NS economics, then we might as well not use it at all.
I would suggest that we only use our NS economies as a base to figure out a system similar to the one we had for E20.

incidently, new military units posted

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12406699&postcount=27

you can if you wish adjust your pregrame builds to add some of these in

I have two problems with this, firstly making you pay for commercial stuff if you have a high tax rate is unfairly penalizing people with the 100% tax rate bug. I can't change my tax rate and shouldn't be punished for it.

Secondly if we are going to have so many complicated modifcations to the some times random and always over the top system that is NS economics, then we might as well not use it at all.
I would suggest that we only use our NS economies as a base to figure out a system similar to the one we had for E20.

I realize that, but on the other hand, the nations with lower tax rates and defense and commerce budgets have an equally difficult time trying to match yours for the same reasons. Best compromise I can come up with. Real life example, Soviet Union owned and built its commercial shipping and aircraft, while US had companies that built, operated etc. I did decide not to make you pay maintenance, which realistically I should have had you do.

I am trying to make this system as simple as possible for me so I can run this game. Too complicated, and time will prevent me from doing so. You guys have just one country to deal with, I have a lot of NPCs to deal with, plus the job of making sure everyone is following the rules. See my problem?

The E20 system was very time consuming for me, which is one of the reasons I have been resistant. It also over simplified a lot of things that the NS system handles well.

I realize that, but on the other hand, the nations with lower tax rates and defense and commerce budgets have an equally difficult time trying to match yours for the same reasons. Best compromise I can come up with. Real life example, Soviet Union owned and built its commercial shipping and aircraft, while US had companies that built, operated etc. I did decide not to make you pay maintenance, which realistically I should have had you do.

I am trying to make this system as simple as possible for me so I can run this game. Too complicated, and time will prevent me from doing so. You guys have just one country to deal with, I have a lot of NPCs to deal with, plus the job of making sure everyone is following the rules. See my problem?

The E20 system was very time consuming for me, which is one of the reasons I have been resistant. It also over simplified a lot of things that the NS system handles well.

If I have to pay can I at least use my transportation budget on it?

Also can I put the part of the 18% GDP that I can't now use for defence into commerce and education, so I have 10% on defence, 10% on commerce and 29% on education.

Though I do object to the 10% limit at the time of D21 v1 I had a 10 trillion defence budget at 14% it has been ridicoulously easy to get it up to 36 trillion at 28% for D21 v2.
If you want to be a warlike nation it is easy as there are a lot of issues that allow to increase the defence budget, it is infact easier to increase it than it is to decrease it.

I did, with my "All Systems" NS account, a more recent one I made. (Found it.)


approved and given this system

http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_info.pl?Sectors=Diaspora&Hex=1707
t
please keep the Irish background however and pick and stick to which ever NS nation you will use for it (All Systems or Modravia.. whichever is fine, but pick one.. I would suggest whichever is larger)

by the way, because of dealing with some issues (like a new player at last minute, complications to economics rules that had to be fixed, and allowing some people to redo their pregame builds), first turn will take 2 weeks instead of 1 week.

which should help some.

If are over-all expenditure (how much capital the State has compared to the private sector) now matters, can we use our Public Transport budgets in addition to our Commerce Budgets for civilian space infrastructure (at least for the 10 year warp) and our Environmental budgets for Taraforming?

If are over-all expenditure (how much capital the State has compared to the private sector) now matters, can we use our Public Transport budgets in addition to our Commerce Budgets for civilian space infrastructure (at least for the 10 year warp) and our Environmental budgets for Taraforming?

I considered that a while back and decided no. Reason is that the transportation budget affects your overall infrastructure which indirectly affects your GDP already, and the same with environmental budget. Although at a certain point I may give bonuses to tech level advancement to nations that are 'greener' then other nations (lush forests versus desert in your NS description), and transportation budget may eventually have an effect that I am not willing to describe just yet.

god damnit

My NS military budget is 13% and my Commerce budget is only 5%. Can I take the excess from the Military budget and put it into Commerce?

My NS military budget is 13% and my Commerce budget is only 5%. Can I take the excess from the Military budget and put it into Commerce?
Actually I don't think you will have to cut your budgets at all. 10% of your GDP is roughly $10.65 Trillion and both your defense and commerce budget are less than this, so they are fine. GB, correct me if I am wrong.

Actually I don't think you will have to cut your budgets at all. 10% of your GDP is roughly $10.65 Trillion and both your defense and commerce budget are less than this, so they are fine. GB, correct me if I am wrong.

remember, there is a difference between your BUDGET and your GDP

if your tax rate is 10%, then only 10% of your GDP is used by the government

you could potentially have the entire budget be for defense (although this is REALLY hard to pull off)

so if your GDP is 100 Trillion, up to 10 Trillion could be spent on defense, and 10 Trilllion for Commerce

special wartime rules will be created reasonably soon by the way

economic ratings for class B worlds added to inhabited worlds post

I'm now completely lost with the new rules and modifications.

Here's my economy as per NS-Tracker.

Administration: D$0.00 (0%)
Social Welfare: D$18,140,504,203,666.41 (9%)
Healthcare: D$16,124,892,625,481.25 (8%)
Education: D$42,327,843,141,888.29 (21%)
Religion & Spirituality: D$0.00 (0%)
Defense: D$40,312,231,563,703.13 (20%)
Law & Order: D$18,140,504,203,666.41 (9%)
Commerce: D$34,265,396,829,147.66 (17%)
Public Transport: D$14,109,281,047,296.10 (7%)
The Environment: D$0.00 (0%)
Social Equality: D$18,140,504,203,666.41 (9%)

GDP: D$201,561,157,818,515.69

Tax Rate: 100%

--------------------------------

Now with all these new rules, what / where exactly do I stand with my economy as stated above? What has changed? What has remained the same? What modifications do I have to make? And so on.

Plus, as for the tax rate, it can be raised and lowered through answering issues, but 100% tax rate nations cannot modify their tax rate. Thus, if people really needed more GDP invested in their economy or such, they can always increase their tax rate through issues to something like 50% tax rate or something.

I seem to have a problem; According to the New Changes, along with a GDP of roughly $121 Trillion and a Trade Amount of roughly $15 Trillion, the following are required from me:

Docking Facilities:
30 Space Ports: 30
15 Commercial Shipyards: 37.5

Of course this is fair. However, when I get to doing the rest:

Commercial Vessels:
1210 Light Transports: $242 Trillion
605 Transports: $60.5 Trillion
12 Heavy Transports: $2.4 Trillion

Now that comes to a total of $311.65 Trillion, Considering that my prebuild totals only $124.65 Trillion ($113.3 Trillion for Commerce and $11.35 Trillion (since half goes to overhead) for Military), I seem to be running a large deficit of $187 Trillion without actually building anything else.

May I suggest that the proportions required for the Commercial Vessels be related to the Trade Amount rather than the GDP?

I seem to have a problem; According to the New Changes, along with a GDP of roughly $121 Trillion and a Trade Amount of roughly $15 Trillion, the following are required from me:

Docking Facilities:
30 Space Ports: 30
15 Commercial Shipyards: 37.5

Of course this is fair. However, when I get to doing the rest:

Commercial Vessels:
1210 Light Transports: $242 Trillion
605 Transports: $60.5 Trillion
12 Heavy Transports: $2.4 Trillion

Now that comes to a total of $311.65 Trillion, Considering that my prebuild totals only $124.65 Trillion ($113.3 Trillion for Commerce and $11.35 Trillion (since half goes to overhead) for Military), I seem to be running a large deficit of $187 Trillion without actually building anything else.

May I suggest that the proportions required for the Commercial Vessels be related to the Trade Amount rather than the GDP?

the rule was revised so that you don't have to buy your commercial spaceports, shipyards and merchant shipping even if you are at 100% tax rate

GB has decided that all PCs still get free merchant shipping, civilian space ports, and civilian shipyards.

I'm now completely lost with the new rules and modifications.

Here's my economy as per NS-Tracker.

Administration: D$0.00 (0%)
Social Welfare: D$18,140,504,203,666.41 (9%)
Healthcare: D$16,124,892,625,481.25 (8%)
Education: D$42,327,843,141,888.29 (21%)
Religion & Spirituality: D$0.00 (0%)
Defense: D$40,312,231,563,703.13 (20%)
Law & Order: D$18,140,504,203,666.41 (9%)
Commerce: D$34,265,396,829,147.66 (17%)
Public Transport: D$14,109,281,047,296.10 (7%)
The Environment: D$0.00 (0%)
Social Equality: D$18,140,504,203,666.41 (9%)

GDP: D$201,561,157,818,515.69

Tax Rate: 100%

--------------------------------

Now with all these new rules, what / where exactly do I stand with my economy as stated above? What has changed? What has remained the same? What modifications do I have to make? And so on.

Plus, as for the tax rate, it can be raised and lowered through answering issues, but 100% tax rate nations cannot modify their tax rate. Thus, if people really needed more GDP invested in their economy or such, they can always increase their tax rate through issues to something like 50% tax rate or something.

you stand as follows... 10% of your GDP maximum counts for game purposes for military spending.. that would be $20.156 trillion. Same for commerce, another $20.156 Trillion. Figures in excess of that are essentially considered waste for game purposes. Athough you can't change your tax rate, you can readjust how you spend which is what I recommend.

There will be rules for special situations (major war, alien invasion) where I will lift the cap significantly (up to 18% or maybe even 20%)

I am still considering some other possibilities on this including having nations spend on commerce and military based on government type, with a peace time and war time cap. Still looking that over however.

One flaw with the NS economic figures is the fact that there is no way your nation can have zero spending on administration considering how huge your budget is... that means essentially there are no personnel departments, training departments, logistics and supply departments etc, and huge organizations have those aplenty.

you stand as follows... 10% of your GDP maximum counts for game purposes for military spending.. that would be $20.156 trillion. Same for commerce, another $20.156 Trillion. Figures in excess of that are essentially considered waste for game purposes. Athough you can't change your tax rate, you can readjust how you spend which is what I recommend.

Note bold emphasis.

What if I reallocated my excess 10% worth of defense spending into my education budget (so instead of 21%, it'll be 31%), and reallocate 7% excess commerce spending into Administration (so I'll have 7% administration instead of 0%)?

Would that work?

----------------------------

Also what about the tax rate / GDP thing?

According to the "Tax % = % GDP that can be used" rule, nations with 0% tax rate will essentially have no GDP to spend on commerce, military, etc. since 0% times, say, 200 trillion GDP would equal a big fat zero.

10% tax rate = 10% of GDP used for budget, right? So in other words a nation with a 200 trillion GDP would have the following:

20 trillion to spend (10% of 200 trillion = 20 trillion)

10% military spending of 20 trillion = 2 trillion defense spending
10% commerce spending of 20 trillion = 2 trillion commerce spending

Is that about right?


So you can see some nations with 0% tax rate will have no budgets at all.

0% of 200 trillion GDP = 0 to spend (not even 1 cent).

10% military spending of 0 = 0 military budget
10% commerce spending of 0 = 0 commerce budget

And so on.

Note bold emphasis.

What if I reallocated my excess 10% worth of defense spending into my education budget (so instead of 21%, it'll be 31%), and reallocate 7% excess commerce spending into Administration (so I'll have 7% administration instead of 0%)?

Would that work?.

you can do that by fiddling with your NS issues as they come up, so for now going to assume for example that the excess defense and commerce is being eaten by administration and waste

----------------------------

Also what about the tax rate / GDP thing?

According to the "Tax % = % GDP that can be used" rule, nations with 0% tax rate will essentially have no GDP to spend on commerce, military, etc. since 0% times, say, 200 trillion GDP would equal a big fat zero.

10% tax rate = 10% of GDP used for budget, right? So in other words a nation with a 200 trillion GDP would have the following:

20 trillion to spend (10% of 200 trillion = 20 trillion)

10% military spending of 20 trillion = 2 trillion defense spending
10% commerce spending of 20 trillion = 2 trillion commerce spending

Is that about right?.

apparently you still have a budget even without taxes, my assumption is that there are fees, tariffs etc that your government still receives


So you can see some nations with 0% tax rate will have no budgets at all.

0% of 200 trillion GDP = 0 to spend (not even 1 cent).

10% military spending of 0 = 0 military budget
10% commerce spending of 0 = 0 commerce budget

And so on.

see above, but even with extremely low tax rates NS economic calculators still gives nations some income and budget

apparently you still have a budget even without taxes, my assumption is that there are fees, tariffs etc that your government still receives

Donations to the State/government could also be made by the wealthy citizens of the polity, as happened in Classical Democratic Athens.

apparently you still have a budget even without taxes, my assumption is that there are fees, tariffs etc that your government still receives

Yeah, I have assumed that my government gets most of its budget from property taxes.

you can do that by fiddling with your NS issues as they come up, so for now going to assume for example that the excess defense and commerce is being eaten by administration and waste

Fair enough.

Although on the other hand, I have absouletely no idea what NS issues raise or lower Administration budget. The only NS issues I know of that actually raise / lower budgets is commerce, education, and defense. The other budgets, I have no idea what issues raise or lower which budgets (besides commerce, education, and defense).

you can do that by fiddling with your NS issues as they come up, so for now going to assume for example that the excess defense and commerce is being eaten by administration and waste.

I would suggest against this, yes we can control our budgets to some degree but it takes time to alter them.
We have put them to the way they are following your rules, it unfair if we were following the rules and then you change them and penalize us for not being able to respond quick enough.
I suggest theat you allow us two weeks in which to get our budgets straight, within that time we are allowed to shift up to 10% off Defence and Commerce spending and put it onto something else.
Once the two weeks are up our budgets revert to how they are displayed on the NS tracker etc.
This will give us a grace period to try and get things straight by answering as many issues as we can.

The problem with the NS system is that the issues you get are random and so it can be impossible to alter some budgets due to never getting the right issue.
It would be better if you could come up with some rules so that we could assign our own budgets form the GDP we get.

Atheistic Right (Puppet of Bazalonia) thread up (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12412114#post12412114)

Ah, hopefully be able to get round to redoing my prebuilds sometime soon. My present builds will have to wait though. What happens to excess budgets are they just lost? For example if my defence budget is knocked down to 10% from 22% what does my government spend the money on? Where does the mysterious 12% go?

im gonna be going on a cruise for sb so wont be able to post. Parthini will be doing what he can while im gone.

Ah, hopefully be able to get round to redoing my prebuilds sometime soon. My present builds will have to wait though. What happens to excess budgets are they just lost? For example if my defence budget is knocked down to 10% from 22% what does my government spend the money on? Where does the mysterious 12% go?

At the moment it is written off as waste.

I'm not happy about this for a number of reasons see above for my suggestion.

I would suggest against this, yes we can control our budgets to some degree but it takes time to alter them.
We have put them to the way they are following your rules, it unfair if we were following the rules and then you change them and penalize us for not being able to respond quick enough.
I suggest theat you allow us two weeks in which to get our budgets straight, within that time we are allowed to shift up to 10% off Defence and Commerce spending and put it onto something else.
Once the two weeks are up our budgets revert to how they are displayed on the NS tracker etc.
This will give us a grace period to try and get things straight by answering as many issues as we can.

The problem with the NS system is that the issues you get are random and so it can be impossible to alter some budgets due to never getting the right issue.
It would be better if you could come up with some rules so that we could assign our own budgets form the GDP we get.

I would like to expand more upon Ato-Sara's idea.

For one thing, if players wish to reach 10% commerce, 10% defense, and 31% education on NSEconomy or NS-Tracker sites, it may take them 1 week, 1 month, 1 year, or never according to the random probablility of issues. Plus there's no concrete chart or function to accurately predict what each issue exactly does (so we might end up lowering our budgets when we need them to increase for instance). There's no clear cut solutions to the NS Issues pages like there are clear cut solutions to puzzles, video games, etc.

Another issue I feel needs to be addressed is this. If we forcibly change our NS nation budgets to match Diaspora's rules, then our nation which may be involved in other RP's may suffer as a result.

Case in point:

I am involved in a RP called "Earth V" that uses defense budgets with no restrictions (using my full 20% defense budget). Likewise, I'm able to use my other budgets over 10% without problems like Education, Commerce, and possibly Public Transport or such.

Now, with that 20% defense budget in that other NS RP it's barely enough to bolster my defenses aganist an invasion by another player or a coalition of nations. Then I have to lower my NS budget down to 10% defense to fit in with Diaspora (and switch over that 10% excess to Education so 10% defense and 31% education), I will become 1/2 weaker in the "Earth V" RP and get invaded as a result. Consquently, the Earth V RP will be screwed up with dynamics, the "balance of power" lost, and my nation suddenly being torn to pieces by a sudden halving of my entire military (going from 20% defense spending to 10% defense spending).

This could happen to any player in Diaspora who are involved in other RP's, not just me.



Therefore, it might be easier to allow players to create their own custom budgets based off their total GDP as according to NSEconomy / NS-Tracker instead. This would eliminate the problem explained above, but then we have another problem.

What's to stop everybody from just deciding to have 10% defense, 10% commerce, 31% education, and 5% in everything else? Then everybody would pretty much have the same budget, and the tech advancement rule with education budgets would be abused.



Also, to clarify what Ato-Sara said, I think what he's trying to say is that if the rules are changed again 3 or 4 weeks from now, or 2 months or whenever, and we still have to adhere to NSEconomy budgets, it will become hard if not impossible for us to modify our budgets within a week. It may take us a full RL month or longer (or never) to fix up our budgets due to total randomness and unpredictability of what NS issues pop up, then when we get our budgets just right, another rule change comes along. Then rinse + repeat.



I am merely pointing out several serious flaws in the new system that needs to be addressed. I realize and understand that the new system was created to curb overly huge nations like Artitsa or Samtonia from just dominating everything in sight, but in doing so, the new system brings up several problems that might be as serious as the problem it is trying to fix.

I would suggest against this, yes we can control our budgets to some degree but it takes time to alter them.
We have put them to the way they are following your rules, it unfair if we were following the rules and then you change them and penalize us for not being able to respond quick enough.
I suggest theat you allow us two weeks in which to get our budgets straight, within that time we are allowed to shift up to 10% off Defence and Commerce spending and put it onto something else.
Once the two weeks are up our budgets revert to how they are displayed on the NS tracker etc.
This will give us a grace period to try and get things straight by answering as many issues as we can.

The problem with the NS system is that the issues you get are random and so it can be impossible to alter some budgets due to never getting the right issue.
It would be better if you could come up with some rules so that we could assign our own budgets form the GDP we get.

Ato-Sara (and anyone else this applies to) if either your commerce or defense budget exceeds 10%, and the other one doesn't, you can transfer a portion of the excess so that the lesser budget meets the 10% cap

a grace period at this point so that you guys can massively overbuild your pre games builds defeats the purpose, but this does allow you to do a little shifting around.

And I am trying to make a reasonable economic system that isn't too complicated, is enforceable in some way, and has consequences if you screw up the way you handle your issues and rewards you if you do them well.

Ah, hopefully be able to get round to redoing my prebuilds sometime soon. My present builds will have to wait though. What happens to excess budgets are they just lost? For example if my defence budget is knocked down to 10% from 22% what does my government spend the money on? Where does the mysterious 12% go?


see above post for a partial answer

incidently, in my view, the NS game doesn't punish you nearly severely enough economically for overspending on military and law enforcement. No nation that has spent over 10% for an extended period of time (a decade or so) is still viable economically today (North Korea, Cuba, Soviet Union, pre reform Red China etc)

so if you are spending above the GNP cap, a great deal of it is actually being spent on military owned farms, factories, research centers, infrastructure, perks for leaders, and a whole litany of other things that are required to keep the economy going, and a lot of it is waste as this is very, very inefficient.

The Soviet Army, which routinely got between 15-20% of the Soviet GNP in real terms, got the best of the economy, but also ran its own factories, dairies, wheat farms, and a whole list of other industries and this also severely penalized the civilian economy because not only was there less for the civilian economy, but what was available was second or third rate compared to what the military economy was getting.

In short, there were two economies, and neither were efficient at all.

I didn't pull 10% out of the air, but from research I did years ago while in school studying this very thing. Also read older versions of James Dunnigans "How to make war", James Cockburns book on the Russian military and a host of others.

incidently, I didn't say you had to lower your military and commerce budgets, I am saying for this RP, only what is 10% of your GNP counts (each)

Which takes care of your problem Sharina.

Anything in excess of 20% for commerce and defense is simply ignored and treated as waste and administration costs.

incidently, as far as economic power versus military power is concerned,

Galveston Bay for example has a GNP of 215 Trillion compared to Lesser Ribena 54 Trillion. However, Galveston Bay spends less then 4% of its GNP on its military, while Lesser Ribena spends 28% of its GNP on its military.

Now GB is a billion people larger, but if everything was equal, it would have a GDP of about 75 Trillion compared to LRs 54 Billion.

So the previous compliants that economic giants were being reduced to pygmies by these rules are inaccurate. Artitsa for example has 2 billion people more the GB, and has half the GNP. So clearly, how you handle your issues has a real effect, and if anything, these rules are being kind.


As it is, you have the potential of working around that in any case, because off planet income can be spent on either your military or further offplanet development or both, and DOES NOT COUNT AGAINST EITHER YOUR GNP OR THE GNP CAP.

incidently, I didn't say you had to lower your military and commerce budgets, I am saying for this RP, only what is 10% of your GNP counts (each)

Which takes care of your problem Sharina.

Anything in excess of 20% for commerce and defense is simply ignored and treated as waste and administration costs.

incidently, as far as economic power versus military power is concerned,

Galveston Bay for example has a GNP of 215 Trillion compared to Lesser Ribena 54 Trillion. However, Galveston Bay spends less then 4% of its GNP on its military, while Lesser Ribena spends 28% of its GNP on its military.

Now GB is a billion people larger, but if everything was equal, it would have a GDP of about 75 Trillion compared to LRs 54 Billion.

So the previous compliants that economic giants were being reduced to pygmies by these rules are inaccurate. Artitsa for example has 2 billion people more the GB, and has half the GNP. So clearly, how you handle your issues has a real effect, and if anything, these rules are being kind.


As it is, you have the potential of working around that in any case, because off planet income can be spent on either your military or further offplanet development or both, and DOES NOT COUNT AGAINST EITHER YOUR GNP OR THE GNP CAP.

I have a couple more questions related to this topic to help clarify things once and for all.

My first question is this.

How did you come up with these figures with GNP?

For example, I have nearly 202 trillion GNP, the GB nation has 226 trillion GNP, Artitsa has 257.5 trillion GNP, and Lesser Ribenia has 134 trillion GNP. How does Artitsa has 1/2 of GB's GNP considering Artitsa has roughly 30 more trillion GNP than GB?

All these figures come from NS Tracker site, here.

http://nstracker.retrogade.com/index.php



My second question is this.

You mentioned tax rates. How does this effect the economy? You mentioned that nations with 10% tax rate would only be able to use 10% of their GNP. Let's take your nation (GB) as an example.

The GB nation has 226 trillion GNP and has a 14% tax rate.

Therefore the GB nation will have 31.64 trillion GNP to spend (14% of 226 trillion = 31.64 trillion budget). Now suppose GB has 10% commerce and 10% defense caps.

That would mean that GB only has 3.164 trillion worth of commerce spending, and 3.164 trillion defense spending (10% of 31.64 trillion = 3.164 trillion).



Lets take Amestria as another example. Amestria has 107 trillion GNP according to NS Tracker. She has 72% tax rate, which means she can use 72% of her GNP to spend.

72% (tax rate) of 107 trillion total GNP = 77.04 trillion GNP to spend with (77 trillion budget).

10% defense spending of 77.04 trillion GNP = 7.704 trillion every year
10% commerce spending of 77.04 trillion GNP = 7.704 trillion every year

Thus, Amestria has double Galveston Bay's commerce and defense spending (7.704 trillion to 3.164 trillion respectively nation-wise) even though Amestria has a smaller total GNP and population than Galveston Bay's nation.



See where my confusion stems from the past couple of days?

I have a couple more questions related to this topic to help clarify things once and for all.

My first question is this.

How did you come up with these figures with GNP?

For example, I have nearly 202 trillion GNP, the GB nation has 226 trillion GNP, Artitsa has 257.5 trillion GNP, and Lesser Ribenia has 134 trillion GNP. How does Artitsa has 1/2 of GB's GNP considering Artitsa has roughly 30 more trillion GNP than GB?).

All these figures come from NS Tracker site, here.

http://nstracker.retrogade.com/index.php?


from this site
http://www.sunsetrpg.com/economystatistics.php?nation=galveston+bay

Artista was given a much lower figure. In any case, Artitsa has 2 billion more people then GB and roughly the same GNP as GB does... which donates a less capable economy



My second question is this.

You mentioned tax rates. How does this effect the economy? You mentioned that nations with 10% tax rate would only be able to use 10% of their GNP. Let's take your nation (GB) as an example.

The GB nation has 226 trillion GNP and has a 14% tax rate.

Therefore the GB nation will have 31.64 trillion GNP to spend (14% of 226 trillion = 31.64 trillion budget). Now suppose GB has 10% commerce and 10% defense caps.

That would mean that GB only has 3.164 trillion worth of commerce spending, and 3.164 trillion defense spending (10% of 31.64 trillion = 3.164 trillion

Lets take Amestria as another example. Amestria has 107 trillion GNP according to NS Tracker. She has 72% tax rate, which means she can use 72% of her GNP to spend.

72% (tax rate) of 107 trillion total GNP = 77.04 trillion GNP to spend with (77 trillion budget).

10% defense spending of 77.04 trillion GNP = 7.704 trillion every year
10% commerce spending of 77.04 trillion GNP = 7.704 trillion every year

Thus, Amestria has double Galveston Bay's commerce and defense spending (7.704 trillion to 3.164 trillion respectively nation-wise) even though Amestria has a smaller total GNP and population than Galveston Bay's nation.

See where my confusion stems from the past couple of days?

according to sunset, GB has a larger economy, and a better economy (frightning versus powerhouse)

plus using the actual figures for the GB defense budget it is spending approx 5 Trillion each in commerce and defense, not th figures you are looking at, while Amestria is spending around 7,5 (under 10%) for military and around 3 Trillion for its commerce (once again, well under the 10% cap)

in other words, you use the actual figures indicated for your defense and commerce UNLESS those figures are higher then 10% of GDP. If so, then whatever the excess is can be allocated to the other until it too exceeds 10% and then whatever is left is considered waste and administration.

I am using Sunset and NS tracker because both of them give different information. Pick one and stick to it, either is fine, or you can take an average of the two.

from this site
http://www.sunsetrpg.com/economystatistics.php?nation=galveston+bay

Artista was given a much lower figure. In any case, Artitsa has 2 billion more people then GB and roughly the same GNP as GB does... which donates a less capable economy




according to sunset, GB has a larger economy, and a better economy (frightning versus powerhouse)

plus using the actual figures for the GB defense budget it is spending approx 5 Trillion each in commerce and defense, not th figures you are looking at, while Amestria is spending around 7,5 (under 10%) for military and around 3 Trillion for its commerce (once again, well under the 10% cap)

in other words, you use the actual figures indicated for your defense and commerce UNLESS those figures are higher then 10% of GDP. If so, then whatever the excess is can be allocated to the other until it too exceeds 10% and then whatever is left is considered waste and administration.

I am using Sunset and NS tracker because both of them give different information. Pick one and stick to it, either is fine, or you can take an average of the two.

Thanks for the info, GB. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions so that I don't end up going bald from tearing all my hair out trying to figure out how stuff works.

I have my military pre-builds already revised. However, I'm still struggling with my commerce pre-builds as I have 4 Exotic star systems out of 7 star systems total within 2 hexes of my homeworld and Rouen is within 2 hexes of my homeworld but it's a Class B population and Class A economy NPC (so no chance of them joining me like Pequot did). I can max out Poldepi and Pequot systems, but still have like 150 trillion bucks left over to maximize stuff within 2 hexes of my homeworld for pre-builds.

OK so 10% max from your tax revenue for each fo defence and commerce. I will try to redo pre-builds shortly but fiddling around with my military will likely take time which I don't have at the moment. At the earliest I can probably get it done by next weekend, sorry about that chaps but I do have RL commitments. This first year is still in limbo right? I still don't like the fact that my government would actually lace money in the defence budget for no reason as it is just waste, I mean why bother placing more than twice as much in there if there's no reason to, I can only shift 2% over to max out commerce.

It's going to be difficult adjusting to the anyone with a bigger population than you will beat you in a war system as well, at least before it was interesting to see the large democratic civil rights fests with puny navies and having to band together to secure their future against rogue dictatorships and military run governments. I think we will be worse off for these changes myself and that it will take something away from this RP.

But thems the rules, as they say...

OK so 10% max from your tax revenue for each fo defence and commerce. I will try to redo pre-builds shortly but fiddling around with my military will likely take time which I don't have at the moment. .

not tax revenue, but overall GNP... if you have a relatively low tax rate, its posible to have all of your government revenue in military and commerce spending, as its a relatively small portion of your GNP

Yeah... Copied from my Puppet Nation I'm playing


GDP: 73,739,766,392,753.13

Tax Rate: 0%

Defense Spending: 53% (4,209,452,598,159.16) - 5.7% of GDP
Commerce Spending: 22% (1,747,319,946,405.69) - 2.4% of GDP

For Bazalonia

I have 100% tax rate and 15%, 13% of that spent on Defense, Commerce respectively as such are guaranteed to be over the 10% and so as they have a GDP of 89,461,271,245,774.06

I will have 8.946 Trillion to spend for both Defense and Commerce instead of the amounts listed.

I've found another small problem.
To buy the same amount of merchant shipping as my GDP would allow if I didn't have 100% tax rate it would cost $1,724,700 Billion
Yes thats right 1.7 Quadrillion!

This is ridiculous and overly punitive of 100% tax nations, it would be fine if we had a choice to be 100% tax as then we would have to accpet that if we wanted 100% tax then we would have to make do with tiny merchant fleets, however we don't have a choice and this is seriously unfair.

GB, I think your trying to make this game "perfectly" realistic, but that is something that is impossible. We can not simulate all the economic realities that would happen in the real world in this game, that is impossible, and trying to hard to do so is not bettering the game but making it more and more confusing and time consuming. E20 was never perfect when it came to economics, not even close, but it did just fine, better than fine actually.

Its been over a month and the only rping i've done is redoing my builds 5 or 6 times.

Artitsa has said he's quitting Diaspora.

This is worrying indeed- what if Ato-Sara, Safehaven, and others quit as well? They have expressed frustration and even Lesser Ribenia has expressed his doubts* as well.

If this trend continues then Diaspora will die with a whimper. Please, I implore you, don't let this happen. If economics have to become abstract or take a hit in the realism department in Diaspora for the sake of the E20 community staying together, and focus on the "meat" of RP (conflict, military, politics, etc.) then I think that's a sacrifice we must make for the better good of the RP as a whole. We cannot afford to lose good RP'ers like Artitsa, Safehaven, Ato-Sara, etc.

Or we'll see more players get fed up and leave Diaspora, leaving us with like 3 or 4 dedicated players. If this happens, I may have to leave Diaspora as well because how fun would it be RP'ing by myself in 4 - 8 whole subsectors (Lets say, E, F, I, J, M, and N sectors) with no other player-controlled nations around? I repeat, please do not let this happen to a community that has stuck together for nearly 2 RL years.


* = Evidenced by this.


"It's going to be difficult adjusting to the anyone with a bigger population than you will beat you in a war system as well, at least before it was interesting to see the large democratic civil rights fests with puny navies and having to band together to secure their future against rogue dictatorships and military run governments. I think we will be worse off for these changes myself and that it will take something away from this RP. "

(note the bold emphasis)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12415461&postcount=109

I've found another small problem.
To buy the same amount of merchant shipping as my GDP would allow if I didn't have 100% tax rate it would cost $1,724,700 Billion
Yes thats right 1.7 Quadrillion!

This is ridiculous and overly punitive of 100% tax nations, it would be fine if we had a choice to be 100% tax as then we would have to accpet that if we wanted 100% tax then we would have to make do with tiny merchant fleets, however we don't have a choice and this is seriously unfair.

that rule was dropped as unworkable for that very reason

OK so 10% max from your tax revenue for each fo defence and commerce. I will try to redo pre-builds shortly but fiddling around with my military will likely take time which I don't have at the moment. At the earliest I can probably get it done by next weekend, sorry about that chaps but I do have RL commitments. This first year is still in limbo right? I still don't like the fact that my government would actually lace money in the defence budget for no reason as it is just waste, I mean why bother placing more than twice as much in there if there's no reason to, I can only shift 2% over to max out commerce.

It's going to be difficult adjusting to the anyone with a bigger population than you will beat you in a war system as well, at least before it was interesting to see the large democratic civil rights fests with puny navies and having to band together to secure their future against rogue dictatorships and military run governments. I think we will be worse off for these changes myself and that it will take something away from this RP.

But thems the rules, as they say...

that will still happen as most of the nations with small budgets only spend about 3-4% of the GDP on their military, while you guys with big tax rates spend 10%

in other words, you guys should have 2-3 times their military power at game start.

GB, I think your trying to make this game "perfectly" realistic, but that is something that is impossible. We can not simulate all the economic realities that would happen in the real world in this game, that is impossible, and trying to hard to do so is not bettering the game but making it more and more confusing and time consuming. E20 was never perfect when it came to economics, not even close, but it did just fine, better than fine actually.

Its been over a month and the only rping i've done is redoing my builds 5 or 6 times.

I was worried less about realism in this particular case and more about the fact that some nations had roughly 10 times the military power then other nations with the same population.

Which was going to screw game balance all to hell and severely reduced the enjoyment of a lot of players in this game.


You guys with big tax rates still have a lot of power comparered to them, but now they have a reasonable chance if allied with similiar nations to work against you.

Doesn't havong a high tax level already penalise you by making tech advancement much more difficult (0% tax gets 7 years off or something similar)? I can see why its being changed but just think its a rather uneccessary step to complicate things and make people redo their buidls for the 3rd or 4th time, and hold up the RPing for longer.

I for one am in support of these changes and can see the benefits in them for a more interesting RP. Besides, it is only normal for RP's as original as E20 and D21 to take time to set up and the bugs worked out. You may want to see the old original E20 thread to see how long it took to set that up and start it and that's even before the introduction of the point system.

Of course we would have used the old rules from E20, However, due to rigid appliance of certain unclearly mentioned and passively enforced measures, we have to use NS data, which I view to be most unreliable as granting unreasonable advantages and disadvantages to one or the other, as well as some data being very contradictary and illogical.

This is why we have to go about and iron out these irregularities so we can have a balanced gameplay involving not only brute force, but cunning diplomacy and underhanded subterfuge.

Clearly, no one is going to have a perfect nation of 31% Education, 10% Commerce and 10% Defence unless they are very lucky which a close representation of how hard is it to push through any sort of reform of a system.

Incidently, despite this probably being the most efficient allocation of the GDP, who knows how other allocations affect the actual amount of the GDP, clearly spending too much on the military should have some sort of negative effect on productivity and GDP. Conversely, perhaps spending more than 10% on commerce may affect ones GDP amount (maybe representative of long term economic projects?)? thus allowing more actual funds to be available.

Then again, I have no actual knowledge on how exactly do NS calculators calculate the GDP, but I believe it must depend on many factors and thus is more reliable to use.

Finally, I just would like to point out that we have already solved many bugs and grasped some of the basic fundementals of the War and Economic system; we are nearly finished with the setup and it is only a little while left.

I've come up with a solution for myself. I won't quit.. I'll explain later.

Just for the sake of my sanity, can anyone help me recap the rules changes GB is proposing. Here's what I think it is:

1. Nations with 100% taz rate keep their free stuff

2. Nations can only spend 10% on commerce and 10% on military, but can allocate extra spending to one or the other if it isn't enough

Is there anything else I'm missing?

Time scale is as follows:

Game Start will be the year 2300 (as measured by the colonies of the Diaspora)

week 1
Monday - Bookkeeping and interturn information
Tuesday -January / February
Wednesday - March / April
Thursday - Friday - combat and diplomacy resolution
Saturday and Sunday - combat and diplomacy resolution, plus weekends are getting really hard for me
week 2
Monday - May / June
Tuesday - July / August
Wednesday - combat and diplomacy resolution
Thursday - September / October
Friday - November/December
Saturday- Sunday - combat and diplomacy resolution


I am sorry, but I am having to extend the length of each year from one week to two weeks.

Main reason is this is a bit more complicated then E20 was, and my life is busier then last year

Hopefully everyone is ok with this, but sorry its the best I can do and keep the quality up

Just for the sake of my sanity, can anyone help me recap the rules changes GB is proposing. Here's what I think it is:

1. Nations with 100% taz rate keep their free stuff

2. Nations can only spend 10% on commerce and 10% on military, but can allocate extra spending to one or the other if it isn't enough

Is there anything else I'm missing?

pretty much sums it up, just remember everyone, your Budget isn't necessarily your GNP unless you have 100% tax rate

so you can spend a huge proportion of your budget on commerce and military as long as overall its 10% or less of your GNP

This week as time permits I will look over alternatives to our current economic rules. They have to be easy for deal with from my perspective, reasonably realistic, and require little supervision or input from me regarding player builds.

Jump gates in Human Space

There are two types of jump gates:
Class B gates allow a ship to jump 50 hexes (parsecs) on way.
Class A gates allow a ship to jump 100 hexes (parsecs) on way.

In either case, the ship uses up sufficient fuel for a jump 1 (class B) or jump 2 (class A) which means higher tech level ships frequently have enough fuel to make another jump.

Jump Gates
Minimum tech is tech level 10, research cost is 20 years at $50 Billion a year, and initial installation requires an orbital shipyard, and cost the same to build and maintain as an orbital starport. In addition, a class B jump gate can only be built in a star system that is 2 hexes away from any other system, while a class A requires 3 hexes away from another system.

Sol Sector
Sol/Terra (Earth) Class B
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_info.pl?Sectors=Solomani_Rim&Hex=1827
The oldest and original jump gate. Now operated and controlled by the Solomani Alliance.

Dinger/Granada Class B
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_info.pl?Sectors=Solomani_Rim&Hex=1222
operated by the Granadan government.

Lamark/Dayan Class A
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_info.pl?Sectors=Solomani_Rim&Hex=3024
Operated by the Dayan government

Hayt Class B
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_info.pl?Sectors=Solomani_Rim&Hex=0313
Operated by the Finnigan government

Easter Class B
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_info.pl?Sectors=Solomani_Rim&Hex=1802&UID=
Operated by the Solomani Alliance

Atalanta Class B
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_info.pl?Sectors=Solomani_Rim&Hex=0304
Operated by the Durrakush Calphete, a world founded by Saudi Arabia and dominiated by Wahibi Sunni Moslems
http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_info.pl?Sectors=Solomani_Rim&Hex=0106

Diaspora Sector
Iiselu/Galveston Bay Class A
Operated by the Republic of Texas government

Several other systems in the Sector may be suitable for a Class B (has they are at least 2 hexes from any other system but no jump gates have yet been built outside of Iiselu.

Stargates
At Tech Level 12 and beyond, small doors between worlds can be created called Stargates (essentially the same size as the one in the movie and TV series). This technology requires $100 Billion a year for 20 years to obtain, and a stargate costs $10 Billion for each one constructed. Generally they can only work for 1 hour a day at tech 12, 2 hours a day at tech 13 (increasing by 1 hour for each tech advance after that), making them impractical for commerce and warfare except in special circumstances. They have a range of 10 hexes normally, but if one is built in a system that meets the requirements for a Class A or B jumpgate, then both end points have the same range as a jumpgate.

Jumpgate income
Usuage fees generate the same income as 10 factories as commercial shipping make use of jump gates as much as possible.

Stargates produce sufficient income to pay for their maintenance and cost, but not much in the way of profit until higher tech levels are reached.


NOTE

information on the Terran Federation coming today as well as NPC budgets

information on the Terran Federation and its military now available in the NPC thread

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12445572&postcount=64

bad news all

my heart isn't in the game right now. I have alot going on at home and at work, and I just don't have the time I need to make this a decent game.

so for now, I am going to have to call it.

I apologize for all the time you all have spent on this, and hope you found some enjoyment. I have been running a game for around 2 years now and I am frankly burned out.

In a few months I will have the energy to organize something again and when I do I will post it.

bad news all

my heart isn't in the game right now. I have alot going on at home and at work, and I just don't have the time I need to make this a decent game.

so for now, I am going to have to call it.

I apologize for all the time you all have spent on this, and hope you found some enjoyment. I have been running a game for around 2 years now and I am frankly burned out.

In a few months I will have the energy to organize something again and when I do I will post it.

What if we players took up running the game until you regain your energy? We did something similiar to this when Vas quit the first version of E20, and you took a backseat for a bit.

For instance, Ottoman can be the realism mod, I can be the economic mod (as I'm good with numbers), Safehaven or someone can be the military mod, and maybe Amestria or Bazalonia could be the NPC mod. Then when you come back this summer, the game will still be around and you can take up the reins again.

------------------------

For one thing, I want to continue RP'ing with you guys because 99% of the other NS RP's are either garbage, whine-fests (LOSSES PLEASE! IGNORED! GODMOD!), or n00bish RP's that focus on military instead of realism + backstory + a general storyline. Right now, there are only two RP's I'm currently engaged in- "Earth V" and "Fantasy World" on NS, and it somehow doesn't quite have the feel of E20 or our community.

E20 / this community was what kept me coming back to NS to continue RP'ing, and if this community dissolves, then what's the point of RP'ing in NS anymore?

I won't lie. I felt this version was lacking where E20 flourished. Science fiction is fun, but this was too far-fetched. I preferred to have a basis of reality to base everything on, and I did miss the 20th Century and all its chaos.

I for one would rather we return to a 20th Century, if we did so at all. Perhaps if GB is able to return we could return to E20 but on a separate website?

I'm all for restarting E20 on a seperate forum obviously. Here are some options.

1. Continue Mark I where we left off
2. Continue Mark II where we left off
3. Completely restart from some date to be determined (1900, 1930, 1939, etc.)

Other suggestions are appreciated

EDIT
Current Votes:
Restart in 1930: 3
Continue Mark I: 0
Continue Mark II: 0

I'm all for restarting E20 on a seperate forum obviously. Here are some options.

1. Continue Mark I where we left off
2. Continue Mark II where we left off
3. Completely restart from some date to be determined (1900, 1930, 1939, etc.)

Other suggestions are appreciated
I say number 3 a clean a fresh start for us all...and the era should be 1930s..and I call Russia

Parthini;12449672']I won't lie. I felt this version was lacking where E20 flourished. Science fiction is fun, but this was too far-fetched. I preferred to have a basis of reality to base everything on, and I did miss the 20th Century and all its chaos.

I for one would rather we return to a 20th Century, if we did so at all. Perhaps if GB is able to return we could return to E20 but on a separate website?

Why wait?

Lets try to start this RP without GB and see how it goes, then this summer when GB gets his RL stuff resolved, he can come in and take over refreeing or something.

Just a thought, as we went through a similiar crisis when Vas quit the first E20 a long time ago. Plus it looked like GB would quit, yet the E20 community stuck together and managed to continue E20, then now Diaspora to today.

let me know what you want and I'll add it to the vote tally.


Anyway we vote, i suggest we use GB's economic and military rules, and take use the WiF map for the details. One of us (I'd be willing to) can handle battles and such.

Thinking about it, we could have a whole host of RP's: WW1 never fought, start in 1939, different sets of alliances all together, anything you guys think might be cool put it up.

Here's my idea:

Everyone propose basically whatever they want with the beforementioned 4 choices kept up. We have "primaries" to reduce the choices to 4 (the 4 ideas that recieve the most votes), and then decide which one we want to do

I like Ottoman Khaif's idea of starting in the 1930s, as we were already thinking of something like that. If we do start in that time era, I would like to be Nationalist China.

I like Ottoman Khaif's idea of starting in the 1930s, as we were already thinking of something like that. If we do start in that time era, I would like to be Nationalist China.

Seconded.

No Taxes and Sharina have been added to the 1930's vote. I propose we use invision, I've gotten good use out of them, and we keep a sigup thread here.

Is everyone alright with the using GB's military and economic rules and having someone play as war mod? I'd like to try it as war mod, but if someone else has a burning desire to do it, let me know

No Taxes and Sharina have been added to the 1930's vote. I propose we use invision, I've gotten good use out of them, and we keep a sigup thread here.

Is everyone alright with the using GB's military and economic rules and having someone play as war mod? I'd like to try it as war mod, but if someone else has a burning desire to do it, let me know

I am willing to fulfill the role of realism mod, I was the mod for a number of other now defunted rps...and have a good backgound on realsim.

No Taxes and Sharina have been added to the 1930's vote. I propose we use invision, I've gotten good use out of them, and we keep a sigup thread here.

Is everyone alright with the using GB's military and economic rules and having someone play as war mod? I'd like to try it as war mod, but if someone else has a burning desire to do it, let me know

We already have a preliminary Invision board set up, called "E35". Keep in mind, it is still a work in progress, but should be fleshed out in no time.

http://z6.invisionfree.com/E35_RP/index.php

I'm ok with doing another go at E20, although, I hate the idea of skipping WWI and all the fun that comes with it...

Oh, and if it all comes through, I call Mao.

http://z6.invisionfree.com/E35_RP/index.php?act=idx

proposed place for the new game