NationStates Jolt Archive

This will be the OOC thread for hte collection of threats dealing with everyone invading me.

First order of business, addressing army size from my emergency military build up thread...

My law and order and defence budgets can be amalgated into one, since there all handled by the military. Also, the standing military is only 90,000. 80,000 army, and 10,000 navy/air force. Also, we maintain a 60,000 strong conscript force - the Army of the People's Republic on hand. Most of the defenders are going to be conscripts grabbed from their homes, issued a uniform, rifle, adn some ammo and will not be trained soldiers, other than the basic military training all conscripts are given (we try to get every citizen to serve 1 or 2 years in the Army of the People's Republic). After that, they're transferred to the Home Guard, a militia force. The Militia is integrated into the Civil Defence Corps (the army of the military that handles police duties, and is issued with light tanks and armoured cars, all officers carry rifles or machine guns, though theres a lot less heavy weaponry than in the Liberation Forces). For the hundreds of thousands I'm mustering, its based on people have served previously being handed a rifle (we have a fair defence manufacturing capability, so ample RPGs, recoiless rifles, mortars, machine guns, rifles, etc) and told to fight.

As to how this cumbersome, oversized force of poorly equipped and trained fighters is supposed to hold out against top of the line military forces, well, the plan is to fight guerilla style and just use delaying tactics and ambushes to try to kill as many enemies as possible before we go down. Then go underground, and fight a guerilla war, popping up from tunnels, sewers, ruins, etc, fire off an RPG here, set up a mine there, etc.

Do you have a map of a nation?

Not right now, trying to whip one up in paint, I didn't think things would move so fast, or that I'd be invaded quite so quickly lol.

http://s147.photobucket.com/albums/r313/Raithal/?action=view&current=Iragia.jpg

hey just really quickly where do i post to start the invaision. i sent a letter in the thred that sparked this whole situation. I would post it in the same place they leauge is but i'm not a member. would it be best to make a new thred? and sorry about the spelling in the post i'm going to start using word to type my posts in.

just let me know if it would be best to make a new thred or not.

thanks

Very good work considering the program you use is it not suited for map building it seems like.

As for the war you know you can just submit to my rule as the ruling party till this blows over and I can install a less frowned upon goverment and give the leaders of your current goverment imprisonments that are favorable to you.

Bravo. Which city is the capital?

acctually if i was you i would just have my army melt away into the civilan population and or mountians and then fight an unconventional war thus the only way to effectivley destroy you would be to commit genocide which is only going to get the country commiting genocide into hot water and eventually you will wear down their forces but from my tallies your looking at an invasion force of more than 7 million soldiers at least 4 massive fleets and unknown number of aircraft enjoy =) lol

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=517715

The IC thread

Capital is Baker's Landing, the other named cities are major cities/towns, the other grey areas are towns, there are smaller ivllagees scattered all over, and the dark grey lines are the major freeways and highways

Here is what I am deploying:

3rd Army:
525,000 men

2nd Dreadnought Battlegroup:
1 Raven-class Superdreadnought
1 Tsunami-class Aircraft Carrier
5 M-Battleships
5 G-Battleships
2 Bluebird-class Guided Missile Cruisers
12 Tidal Wave-class Guided Missile Destroyers
24 Mockingbird-class ASW Frigates

Also, please note that Red Tide has some ulterior motives here. What they are is to be revealed.

All right, I should probably explain something about my soldiers. This thread seems as good a place as any to do it, and in fact better than most.

I have a big defence budget, yada yada yada. I've been around for almost four years (off and on), giving me a lot of IC experience to base my troops around. As such, Haraki maintains a very small professional army, relative to other nations my size. Where nations much smaller than me are deploying, say, 7 million troops to an invasion of a country with an 80,000 man army, I would probably deploy a few divisions.

Each of my divisions is 10,000 troops plus support elements, composed of brigades of 1,500 people. I only maintain slightly over thirty professional divisions, i.e. soldiers who are employed full-time as soldiers and spend all their time living on bases and training. These guys are very good, very well trained, and have very good equipment. I have a big enough defence budget that I can sink a hell of a lot of money into making those 350,000-some combat troops very, very good. Past that, we get into semi-professional troops, who are also very good but not as such, and decrease in quality based on several levels of 'how much time they spend on the base', but they won't be involved in this. They only get involved if I mobilize for war, which I generally don't do since then I have to RP bad effects to the economy, public dissent, and such as hundreds of thousands of people are called away from their jobs to go to war.

So, essentially, what I'm trying to say is 'yes, I'm deploying 21,500 troops where other people are deploying millions and millions. Yes, my troops are very well-trained and very well-equipped.

I'm not saying this to be big-headed or say 'look how much better than you I am'. I'm not trying to be arrogant. I'm just saying that this is how I RP my military, and if we're going to be playing war, we should at least put all the cards on the table OOC.

Thanks!

2Haraki:

From your IC post it sounds like our goals are quite compatible. What about providing ground security for the evacuation operation? It seems like just the right thing for a small yet highly professional army.
My forces will provide air protection support, and I will deploy some ground weapons, but ALC didn't really prepare any invasion and has only a minimum of amphibious assault capabilities within the groups. The hovercraft will mostly transport civilians to the ships.

I agree with Haraki here - most of you guys are using vast overkill. In this situation, it would warrant, at most, a couple carrier battle groups and four divisions. Iragia isn't a very large nation, and I really cannot see the need to deploy seven million soldiers, which would do massive amounts of damage to the economy and stretch your logistics to the breaking point.

Not even a couple... A single CVBG could wipe Iragian military out.

I have 12 in the area, but they are spread out to provide transport security and be a safeguard against third party attacks.

I only planned on deploying at most few thousand troops to fight at the most 25,000 but i might have to raise that since by my tally the invading force totals 7,038,000 actual invading soldiers plus almost all of those are with attached "peace keepers"

Wondering, Gataway, do you have oil or other resources?

Yes my nation has oil reserves but I rely on hydro and nuclear power myself

Ah. Yes, I see.

You see, this invasion force is used to ripping apart billion-sized nations. Iragia is too small for them. Since by size and composition of your military it looks storefront-bought, the indigenous capabilities are likely low, as well as quantities. Well, in other words, the invaders may just... take a couple nations as a bonus. Just as a normal warfare, response to an attack.
And "Got oil?" is one corporation's motto.

well my nation is no where close to iragia furthermore i have a pretty state of the art army navy and air force to boot the equipment i gave away is obviously outdated thus why i would give it away to a small nation and id gain a little influence with their government so if i ever wanted to cut a deal for say some of his resources it'd be a bit easier furthermore i have several allies so im not to worried about any invasion of my lands

I'm asking OOCly here as well as ICly in the thread,
May I join this random act of plundering?

i suppose so the invaders are already well beyond overkill anyways

Just as long as I get to have a New New Louisianna, named after New Louisianna in Chitzeland, named after Louisianna in the United States.

good luck with that ur last among like 12 diff nations who are invading vs 2 nations that are wanting to aid the civilans and only like 3 nations who are supporting iragia

Ah, well, I'll have to support the civilian's sovereignty...but the military has to be destroyed...

This RP is a complete mess. I would appreciate it if the RP were restricted to just Iragia, myself, Questers, maybe one other SL power and perhaps Haraki. There is no need for two dozen countries to launch simulataneous invasions, it just makes the thread needlessly confusing. Apologies if I missed out anyone who is actually supporting Iragia, but I don't really know what the hell is going on anymore.

Also, for people who are labouring under the false impression that Eurasia is in the Sovereign League and thus his crazy post can be used to smear the SL, I direct your attention to the Sovereign League Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=506863), which has a comprehensive list of members that does not include Eurasia.

well, prae, since I was the first nation to support Iragia with threats of war to all who would try and defeat them, might I be allowed to join... plus the fact that I'm already at war with you for invading them. ^_^

So, yeah, limiting the players on both sides would be good as this is just going to get silly with nations deploying millions willy-nilly. So I would like to see a limit on the nations involved because this otherwise gets stupid and confusing, with the deployed military forces outnumbering Iragians 10-1.

Actually, Aerospace Logistics were the first to react, aside from BL...


Yes, really, it would be an equal fight - just 3 SL powers vs. Iragia. I think if Iragia wanted to be invaded by a such matching force, he'd make it "SL vs. Iragia: The most challenging war of the history, who will win? (CLOSED)".

This way it at isn't black-and-white: we've got 3 sides (plus Iragia) rather than one.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want an even fight. Iragia is a tiny nation that has been attacked by a lot of big nations. It is right and proper that Iragia is vastly outnumbered. This will be the case anyway. I simply fail to see the purpose of 20 large nations attacking 1 tiny nation when 3 large nations could do just as good a job but with much less confusion.

How about:

Iragia
Krendakov
Praetonia
Questers
British Londinium (since he's already attacked)
RedTide2 (since he's already attacked)
Vault10 (what actually are you doing anyway?)

BL, what the fuck are you doing?

Well, the original point was that even 1 medium country would do the job just like three or twenty large. The interesting point here is the relations between the nations - some invade Iragia, some are on Iragian side, some have other goals.


I'm attempting an operation to evacuate civilians from Iragia. Haraki is also doing an operation for civilian safety; possibly we'll do the operation together.

So I think it would be best to keep this semi-open, so that nations who have something different from the mainstream to do (e.g. support Iragia) can join, but the thread is not filled with random "me too" style invaders.

BL, whats the force composition of your fleet?

twenty one destroyers, three carriers, fifteen frigates, eight SSNs, eight SSBNs, and six minesweepers. Troop transports carrying three hundred thousand Eurasian soldiers sailed interpersed between the Royal Navy ships. Screaming through the skies above were three squadrons of B2 bombers along with six squadrons of RAC Curiatii aircraft.

BL, telegram.

How much is asquadron of Curiatii ?

Twenty-four per squadron, and each carrier has ninety-four aircraft.

Um.

The Atopian Military, with no current deployments, is going to support Iragia.

First of all, what the fuck? Why are the Iragians being attacked?

Secondly, 7 million soldiers versus 90,000?! That's almost as bad as me!

Thirdly, I shall send one Army Group (1,500,000 front-line combat troops) with logistical support (a futher 6 million men and women, with basic combat training - including air and sea transports), air support (three Air Fleets - fighter, bomber, and mixed), a naval task force to protect the logistical vessels, and overflights from the FASCES one and three space stations.

Any objections? All my kit is MT Soviet (late 1980s, mostly) with a smattering of PMT in space.

Shit, I accidentally put British instaed of Eurasian, sorry about that, I totally forgot XD

Questers, I think it's worth pointing out that all I've done so far is bomb military targets...

Yes, but you've threatened to "slaughter civilians" etc, which is exactly NOT what we're intending to do. As I said at the end, we need to make an example that there'll be no such thing, and the best way is to respond as violently as possible.

Just in case you missed it Kormanthor has ( In support of Questers ) paced a naval blockade around all Iragian Ports to keep out any supplies that would support Iragian defense.

You posted bombing "governmental offices, subway stations, motorways", Eurasia.

BL, from your posts it doesn't really look like you're just bombing military targets. I don't have your post open and so can't give you more examples, but the one that pops to mind is you ordered bombardment of subway stations. Those aren't exactly a military target.

Besides which, from the way you wrote it it did look like pretty much indiscriminate bombardment of the city. Basically "there's some soldiers in that city block? Shoot a battleship shell at it". That's how we see your posts.



Also, Prae, I apologize for my mistake about thinking Eurasia was in the Sovereign League. Nevertheless, from an outside perspective, such as Euroslavia's, they might not have known that one of the countries invading 'sort of in conjunction' with the SL nations wasn't a member, especially if Euro's not in the habit of reading the SL recruitment thread, which I'm pretty sure he's not.

In any case, my words in the 'police action' thread still work. Just think of them more as 'why aren't you reigning this guy in? You already invaded him once and he's turning the entire nation against any foreign invaders' rather than 'pull out your SL buddy'. And once again, sorry for my hasty assumption. I was wrong.

I for one wasn't reigning him in because I was asleep at the time, but yah.

Just in case you missed it Kormanthor has ( In support of Questers ) paced a naval blockade around all Iragian Ports to keep out any supplies that would support Iragian defense.

Would this mean that my Intervention Fleet has to attack you to land in a bay, or can I bypass your port blockades and land elsewhere, D-Day style?

Besides which, from the way you wrote it it did look like pretty much indiscriminate bombardment of the city. Basically "there's some soldiers in that city block? Shoot a battleship shell at it". That's how we see your posts.

That sounds like something my nation would do(given its doctrine of excessive force("There is no such thing as overkill."))

Atop, you got an ORBAT for your fleet?

I will have as soon as I hunt down the post where I bought it a few NS years back.

Lots of late-gen Soviet kit, and I mean lots. I spent four trillion dollars on it (having saved up for ten NS years :p) at Pudite Arms.

For the moment, assume the following:

At least ten Kirov Battlecruisers, at least five carriers, several hundred transport vessels, at least 50 smaller vessels, and all bristling with surface-surface and surface-air weapons systems.

It's a lot of boats. They have air cover too. I will ORBAT asap, don't worry. :)

Soviet kit? Excellent ;D *preps more air to surface missiles*

Hey Iragia, does Antioch have any regional TV stations? News stations? Radio stations? Anything I could use to try and get my message of peace out to the people themselves without going through the government?

This is NOT an ORBAT of the Intervention Fleet.

It is a list of the vessels, aircraft, helicopters and ground equipment that the Atopian Naval Service currently has: http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Atopiana#The_Atopian_Naval_Service

EDIT: And it's hienously badly laid out, too. My apologies. ORBAT to follow soonest.

Cool.

Well, the original point was that even 1 medium country would do the job just like three or twenty large. The interesting point here is the relations between the nations - some invade Iragia, some are on Iragian side, some have other goals.


I'm attempting an operation to evacuate civilians from Iragia. Haraki is also doing an operation for civilian safety; possibly we'll do the operation together.

So I think it would be best to keep this semi-open, so that nations who have something different from the mainstream to do (e.g. support Iragia) can join, but the thread is not filled with random "me too" style invaders.

My purpose alone was to subdue any military factions while attempting to protect the civilians. Then we go into economic relations, etc.

Well, then we have compatible goals.

To Haraki: Is it OK if I start evacuating citizens on ships and planes through you zone?

i'm all ready evacuating citizens but there still in Iragia, i'm just wondering if i should evacuate them right out the country or a evacuate them out of the war zones.

Well, then we have compatible goals.


Ah well, I'm still out of the invasion. *Shrugs*
If you need supplies, just notify my armadas...

Just send the citizens to Haraki zone, or tell where you send them. Aerospace Logistics will pick them up.

Dephire, if you can, please send some forces to provide the security. And transports - there are at least two millions to evacuate.

No. No enforcement. Only willing will emigrate. I think there should be a lot unhappy people there.

Vault 10: The Harakian government will let you use the zone (It is a multinational zone, after all, not Harakian territory) to evacuate civilians provided they want to be evacuated. If they're being forced to leave the country against their will, the Harakians will look down on your operation. Of course, that's most likely not the case, but hey - gotta leave all options open.

And, of course, that only goes for once the zone is set up and if Prae and I work out an agreement whereby I operate the zone at least until ZMI gets here.




Also, everybody remember Iragia is not online, so having his people do stuff (e.g. saying how many people got on your buses when they could well have been blown up long before) is not exactly in line with good RPing. Yes, sometimes you just have to wait.

Well, I could send some ships (roughly two thousand ships) to the area. Within these are two thousand DeathKnight soldiers and five thousand Godsend Knights, the police officers of Dephire.

Only concern is to how much of the shoreline is still open for ships to land.

Um, don't you think 2000 is a few too many considering everyone else is deploying around 100?

I need some clarification before I post again.

Haraki, I understand you are landing in Antioch? Thats not a real good place to go, I plan to invade there and my forces dont really go for precision strikes.

Um, don't you think 2000 is a few too many considering everyone else is deploying around 100?

Small and minute ships. Not vast warships. However, I have changed it to just fifty ships by sea, and twenty aircraft.

Red Tide, I don't know. I might not be landing at all. But yes, my (publicly announced) intention was to land and establish a five kilometre safe zone around Antioch.

Of course, it would appear ZMI peacekeepers are taking over. But since I have no clue who that is, I'm waiting on a post from them - or from Prae explaining who they are. Personally, I think it's kind of funny that it was announced they could deploy faster than my troops, who I have posted as about half an hour away from landing, when this ZMI person (Unless it is not a person, and instead something RPed by Prae or somebody else?) hasn't posted at all.



Vault 10, United kingdom2, I advise you to hold off on posting until Iragia gets back. So far (from what I've seen) you've posted landing troops, taking tens of thousands of his civilians, and extracting them all, without allowing him to post in response to any of it. If I were him, I'd be slightly upset, since in the first place, I would've wanted to contest your landings, probably keep my civilians from being taken, shoot at your buses, fire at you upon entry towards the Harakian landing zone, do my best to destroy your evacuation ships, and finally harass you on the extraction beach. As is, your rapid-fire posting while he's offline has robbed him of any chance to do any of that, unless you were willing to retcon all those actions.

As an example, I could've done the same and posted my own landing and securing the area around Antioch, but I'm not, because I'm waiting for him to come back, so either I can get a diplomatic response from him, or a post about defences in the area.

That is a decent acknowledgment. Maybe more RPing within your own homelands would do...

ZMI is indeed a real person. His nation is actually called Zepplin Manufacturers. He is allied to Praetonia and has land in Haven but isn't in the SL.

I've asked him to post and he should do soon.

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Zepplin_Manufacturers << Thats ZMI and he isn't a puppet of Prae's. x.x

Ookay. Now we play the waiting game. *Looks around.* What timezone is Iragia in anyway???

Vault 10, United kingdom2, I advise you to hold off on posting until Iragia gets back. So far (from what I've seen) you've posted landing troops, taking tens of thousands of his civilians, and extracting them all, without allowing him to post in response to any of it. If I were him, I'd be slightly upset, since in the first place, I would've wanted to contest your landings, probably keep my civilians from being taken, shoot at your buses, fire at you upon entry towards the Harakian landing zone, do my best to destroy your evacuation ships, and finally harass you on the extraction beach. As is, your rapid-fire posting while he's offline has robbed him of any chance to do any of that, unless you were willing to retcon all those actions.
OK, I'll keep a slow pace. I somehow thought you've already landed, and so my landing was supposed to be in the already secured zone.

In any case, it's still at the beachhead already cleared out by SL forces. I only yet took a small number civilians who were escaping to the shore, and helped the buses to escape. It's less than 1% of the operation done, and, actually, as of now it's all territory with heavy SL military presence, plus very close to ALC fleet. In other words, not under his control. But I'll wait for him before continuing operations inland.

What would you rate this RP in terms of %s, where 0 is absolutely the worst, and 100 is one of the best rps you've seen?

That should kill a little time. My nation isn't going to intervene but if it was, I'm sure that I would have an equal amount of forces, but first I need an army that is lawfully allowed to leave the country for warfare.

70%. Many of the invaders' actions are a mess, quick, two-posts-and-we-have-invaded style, millions of soldiers and tens of megaships on a country where they wouldn't even fit, but high quality of RP by Iragia offsets that.

With a noob in Iragia's place, it would be 20% - he adds exactly his half of roleplay.
With perfect invaders, 90%. Lacks the potential to go higher.

All pure opinion, as of now.

... Dont you think that it is too early for this rating thing?

PS: Another thing that will pass the time? You contesting my intent on invading Antioch.

70%. Many of the invaders' actions are a mess, quick, two-posts-and-we-have-invaded style, millions of soldiers and tens of megaships on a country where they wouldn't even fit

Sorry what? Both me and Praetonia have made fairly detailed posts regarding our attacks (his was better, but I was busy at the time and didn't have alot of time posting). Many is hardly right. I would say half.

I'd put the quality of this RP at 50%, though, considering some of the more "rubbishy" posts.

All right. My apologies, I've never dealt with ZMI before.

Also, I'm going to wait for him to post before I post anything more. So that goes for you as well, Red Tide. Since he'll probably be taking over my job, I'll wait for his post before sending a reply.

It wouldn't be so crap if people like British Londinium hadn't rushed in and started going 'LOL OMG KILL UR CIVIES AND RAPE YOUR HOUSES' or the low quality posts of UK2. The Sovereign League was going to commence its invasion today, we had it all planned out except it was ruined by some....

Would this mean that my Intervention Fleet has to attack you to land in a bay, or can I bypass your port blockades and land elsewhere, D-Day style?


It would probly be easier on you if you try to by pass me :D

It wouldn't be so crap if people like British Londinium hadn't rushed in and started going 'LOL OMG KILL UR CIVIES AND RAPE YOUR HOUSES' or the low quality posts of UK2. The Sovereign League was going to commence its invasion today, we had it all planned out except it was ruined by some....

Well then, why didnt you let me and BL in on the invasion plans!?

Well then, why didnt you let me and BL in on the invasion plans!?

Because it was a SL-only invasion.

Well then, why didnt you let me and BL in on the invasion plans!?

I'll take a wild guess and say neither of you are both in the SL, perhaps?

Sorry what? Both me and Praetonia have made fairly detailed posts regarding our attacks (his was better, but I was busy at the time and didn't have alot of time posting). Many is hardly right. I would say half.
No objections. Fully agreed, the posts were nice. It's just that roleplay is... collaborative thing, or interactive, so to say. And the invasion was rushed in terms of post count. First post the war is declared, the second post forces are bombing Iragia, and the time - RL time - is quite small, so proper response isn't waited for. I would expect at least two RL days and four-eight posts before declaration of war and actual action at the continent.

I don't say a word on why it turned out so. Probably yes, I think it could be better, it's not that invaders are poor players, it's that it was too hasted. Just mentioning that it turned out messy, particularly due to being hasty.

I did not see anywhere that it was an SL only invasion. As a matter of fact, when I pledged my support, no one complained, no one even seemed to notice.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=517664

That was meant to be the real invasion thread, I have no idea why Iragia decided to make another new thread as the police action was quite nice.

Atopiana, wasn't it:


"Five Amphibious Assualt Packages at $32 billion each is US$160 billion

Two Light Fleets at $25 billion each for US$50 billion

Four Task Forces at $72 billion each for US$288 billion

Three Surface Fleet Packages at $47 billion each for US$141 billion

Six Advanced Surface Fleet Package at $475 billion each for US$2.85 trillion

Two Carrier Strike Groups at $50 Billion each for US$100 billion

Four Light Carrier Group Packages at $37 Billion for US$148 billion

Ten Coastal Patrol Squads at $9 Billion for US$90 billion"


From page 86 of the pundite military arms store?

I did not see anywhere that it was an SL only invasion. As a matter of fact, when I pledged my support, no one complained, no one even seemed to notice.
We didnt let you in on the invasion plans because we don't want to be associated your crazy actions like shelling cities with SDs, and also because you're not in the SL

But I don't think you're what Clandonia was talking about. There are some people in the RP who have been making pretty bad posts and attacking seemingly for no reason.

The main problem is that although this was billed as a mainly sovereign league invasion (and even fairly well-informed people like Vault 10 actually think the SL is spearheading the invasion still), not a single sovereign league country has been able to attack yet. In fact, all the countries who currently have troops in Iragia are the random countries that tagged onto the bandwagon after the SL announced it was going to invade, which has led to this confusing situation where the SL fleets that were originally going to spearhead the invasion have arrived to find British Londinium and RedTide2 blasting the hell out of everything and people they've never even heard of before deploying millions of troops ahead of them.

Hmm... so you did it for IC political reasons? Makes sense.

EDIT: My nation has not started blasting everything to shreds yet. So far, the only action I have gone through is taking out some anti-ship batteries RADARs. My nation doesnt even plan on getting anywhere near any none-Red Tidean troops, hence the reason they are landing near Antioch instead of anywhere else.

Thus why I am glad i didnt get to majorly involved in the rp lol plus in reality theres about 8 million or 7 million ppl invading that tiny country plus at least two nations sending in hundreds of thousands of troops to save civilans so pretty much you'll all be fighting over nothing but an uninhabitable waste land by the time the fighting stops I find the whole thing at least mildly entertainting to read about please continue

It wouldn't be so crap if people like British Londinium hadn't rushed in and started going 'LOL OMG KILL UR CIVIES AND RAPE YOUR HOUSES' or the low quality posts of UK2. The Sovereign League was going to commence its invasion today, we had it all planned out except it was ruined by some....

At least mine aren't godmoded or poorly written...

Regardless, I stated that I would be deploying troops, and I didn't hear a single word in protest, so I assumed it was acceptable for me to attack.

EDIT:

Oh, and I do distinctly recall you, along with others, being 'LOL OMG LETS RAPE BL!!!!!'

it mighta been better if most of the random nations decided to support Iragia instead of invading it and yea like BL said no one protested about anything so kinda late for that now and would anyone have any suggestions on a program to use to make a map or anything im tryin to make one for my nation and im not as skilled at paint like some people lol

Thing is that I don't want to disturb the already unstable peace I have with other people, so I'd rather join with them.

Anyways, if you want me out, I'll leave.

I say the more the merrier there are enough nations involved in fighting over iragia that the fighting could go on for years and years before anyone would be really victorious

I say the more the merrier there are enough nations involved in fighting over iragia that the fighting could go on for years and years before anyone would be really victorious

Which would make it more...interesting say the least.:cool:

exactly my thinking but im going to stay out of it lol

Hey,
I just want to reform my own private section of this Iragia. Rebuild, reuse, reform. The civilians will be treated fairly, and jobs will be produced. This I swear.

I would just wait till theres like 1 billion people stuck fighting on that tiny chunk of land and then just nuke it lol

If it does escalate, I'd be on a space station eating popcorn while enjoying the 'light' show. Everyone is welcome of course!

i like the way u think

Sorry for not posting sooner everyone. As for my timezone, I'm EST. Today I worked, and then me, the parents, and brother went out for dinner and to watch some race horses, so I've been busy all day. I might not be able to post as often as I'd like, since I have a couple midterms coming up, but I will be posting, just not sure on the timing.

As for the peacekeepers from Vault 10 and UK apparently having troops going into my towns already, thats a no go. Key coastlines (as in those near the ports) have been fortified, the waters around our ports have been mined, and all the towns, villages, etc have been fortified. Civil Defence is in every settlement, as they are in effect the police force, but also a paramilitary force, and they along with conscript and militia forces have fortified all the settlements. Minefields, trenches, bunkers. Granted, the defences around villages and towns won't be near as strong as those at the major cities like Hamilton, Antioch, Mill Towne, Tharkad, and Baker's Landing. If you want to get peacekeepers in to get to the civilians, then you're going to have to fight to get into those towns.

Also, remember, the media is entirely state run, the people who know of the massacre have been told, over and over, that it was a military action taken against armed insurgents, they know nothing of any protestors, except for what they hear through the IDL rebels. They have been bombarded non stop with propaganda, and are going to be difficult to get to cooperate with your forces, and a number will likely be violent, at least initially.

Atopiana, I posted where to land your troops in the IC thread.

I'm considering jumping in on Iragia's side. Can somebody list the nnations on either side?

Atopiana, I posted where to land your troops in the IC thread.

He can't land troops until he gets past me, I have up to 10 battle groups immediately available to stop his fleet. Iragia how many miles of coastline do you have?

BL ( British Londinium ) I don't think the use of Nukes is necessary.

2Haraki:

From your IC post it sounds like our goals are quite compatible. What about providing ground security for the evacuation operation? It seems like just the right thing for a small yet highly professional army.
My forces will provide air protection support, and I will deploy some ground weapons, but ALC didn't really prepare any invasion and has only a minimum of amphibious assault capabilities within the groups. The hovercraft will mostly transport civilians to the ships.


Vault I can provide extra air protection for ground security, and hovercraft to help transport civilians as well as small fast attack craft to protect the hovercraft if you need it. I have ten full battle groups blockading the Iragian shoreline. I will make up a list of ship types as soon as I can.

EDIT: And it's hienously badly laid out, too. My apologies. ORBAT to follow soonest.

Oioi :P

As for the peacekeepers from Vault 10 and UK apparently having troops going into my towns already, thats a no go. Key coastlines (as in those near the ports) have been fortified, the waters around our ports have been mined, and all the towns, villages, etc have been fortified.

Well... First, ALC landed not in ports, but in open, in the destroyed or unfortified terrain. But, as I haven't specified how many people have been evacuated, let's suppose these were just a small number of those informed and already escaped to the countryland. After all, as there was an entire demonstration, there have to be a lot of discontent people.

Just don't want to rip the posts out of the flow.


Vault I can provide extra air protection for ground security, and hovercraft to help transport civilians as well as small fast attack craft to protect the hovercraft if you need it. I have ten full battle groups blockading the Iragian shoreline. I will make up a list of ship types as soon as I can.
I think we should secure a beachhead north of Antioch - it's somewhat bombed there already, and between the two major invasion forces. I think Haraki will also work there, to let Red Tide do their wiping to the South.

I'm considering jumping in on Iragia's side. Can somebody list the nnations on either side?

Iragia killed some citizens who were demanding democracy and fair elections, so the SL declared a "World Police Action" and jumped in followed by British Londinium, Red Tide2, Dephire and many more.
Aequatio argues that this is a violation of a nation's sovereignity, so he called for talks, but got threatened, thus he said he'll defend Iragia.
Thats pretty much it.

Iragia killed some citizens who were demanding democracy and fair elections, so the SL declared a "World Police Action" and jumped in followed by British Londinium, Red Tide2, Dephire and many more.
Aequatio argues that this is a violation of a nation's sovereignity, so he called for talks, but got threatened, thus he said he'll defend Iragia.
Thats pretty much it.

Yeah, my reasons for defending him are exactly the same as Aequatio. Sovereignty takes precidence over democracy, IMHO.

I have school in about ten minutes, so I'll jump in this afternoon.

...And firepower seems to take precedence over both.

BTW, to Allanea - did Iragia even have that many ships for such attack?

Vault, landing in unfortified beaches is fine, it'll just take longer for your troops to get to the inner settlements as they'll have to pass through countryside and forest, so it will be slow going for a while. I simply said no go as UK had stated being in one of my towns, you'll have to attack before you get in. Granted, there'll be a handful of people trying to flee, but only a few will be able to make it out through Civil Defence's perimeter, and all the settlemens have been mined so in addition to trying to stopping advancing forces, anyone trying to flee is going to be killed or maimed.

Allanea, that was great assault on my navy...except, I don't have a navy. Only a handful of patrol ships that would be of no significance. The only naval base is at Baker's Landing, and the handful of vessels were holed up there nad presumed destroyed along with the docks due to Eurasia's bombardment.

Oh, and Vault 10 already took care of the airforce by bombing my airbases before anyone even hit the beaches. The only defences are ground forces. For clarification for everyone, most of Iragia's armour is concentrated at Baker's Landing, Tharkad, Hamilton, and Antioch. The only other armour in the country are the Civil Defence Corps armoured cars, and a handful of heavier IFVs. The only tanks are a company in Tharkad, and the tanks are Baker's Landing and Antioch, with a fair number already destroyed and the rest soon to be destroyed. The defences of the smaller villages and towns are simply Civil Defence officers and militia, along with army conscripts.

I'm considering jumping in on Iragia's side. Can somebody list the nnations on either side?

Are you really sure, your facing some powerful nations here.

He can't land troops until he gets past me, I have up to 10 battle groups immediately available to stop his fleet. Iragia how many miles of coastline do you have?

Right, troop landings and stuff. Here is the ORBAT for the Second Army and its battlefleet that's transporting it:

ORBAT, Atopian Intervention Fleet:

1x Intrepid-class supercarrier
1x Orel Ul’yanovsk-class carrier
2x Kuznetsov-class carriers
20x Ocean-class Helicopter assault vessels
1x Indomitable-class super-dreadnought
10x Dauntless-class battleships
20x Vendetta-class heavy cruisers
40x Kirov-class cruisers
50x Slava-class missile cruisers
75x Resolute-class light cruisers
10x Gepard-class multimission frigates
50x Overlord-class AA frigates
75x Neustrashimy-class ASW frigates
100x Sovremenny-class destroyers
100x Oscar-II class attack submarines
45x Ivan-Rogov-class amphibious assault transport ships
204x Pomornik-class LCACs

Atopian Naval Air Force (ANAF):

320 Mi-28 Havocs
150 Mi-8 Hip Multipurpose Helicopters
172 Ka-27 Helix Attack Helicopters
36 Mi-24 Hind-D Attack and Insertion Helicopters
300 Yak-141 VTOL Naval Aircraft
70 Yak-38 Forger
190 MiG 29K Interceptor
80 MiG-31 Foxhounds
50 Su-47 Berkut all-weather fighter
80 Su-34 Flanker fighter/bombers
70 EA-6B Prowler recce aircraft

First Marine Division and Second Army – total: 550,000 troops with tanks, artillery, air-defence, attack-helicopters, engineers, AIFVs, medical units, etc etc.

Logistics Corps numbers: 1 million – mostly berthed on board the vessels of the Intervention Fleet, supplemented by aircraft.

Yes, it's cocking huge, no, I won't reduce the numbers. Expect hideous incompetance and cock-ups galore in the first fleet action of the Atopian Navy! :p

Any word on my air-drop, which I am just about to commence?

To Earabia: This invasion is somewhat overcrowded already. And, so to say... well, I'm afraid that adding something from FT would ruin it completely. Also, you don't actually seem to have a reason to join.

I'm afraid that adding something from FT would ruin it completely.

Urm, as opposed to PMT junk like the LOL SUPERDRONE which can see everything and is invisible? :p

Which superdrone?

I would prefer it MT, but at least there is no high PMT, and no particular use of PMT advantages. And, actually, little if any truly postmodern tech (only pAstmodern, or quasi-PMT) anyway.

Atopiana man, you got that ORBAT yet?

The 'Vampire' Superdrone or whatever it is, invisible to radar and the Mk-1 Eyeball, and used by Red Thingy.

Questers, it's four posts above yours. :p

In case you didn't see it/can't see it...

ORBAT, Atopian Intervention Fleet:

1x Intrepid-class supercarrier
1x Orel Ul’yanovsk-class carrier
2x Kuznetsov-class carriers
20x Ocean-class Helicopter assault vessels
1x Indomitable-class super-dreadnought
10x Dauntless-class battleships
20x Vendetta-class heavy cruisers
40x Kirov-class cruisers
50x Slava-class missile cruisers
75x Resolute-class light cruisers
10x Gepard-class multimission frigates
50x Overlord-class AA frigates
75x Neustrashimy-class ASW frigates
100x Sovremenny-class destroyers
100x Oscar-II class attack submarines
45x Ivan-Rogov-class amphibious assault transport ships
204 Pomornik-class LCACs

Atopian Naval Air Force (ANAF):

320 Mi-28 Havocs
150 Mi-8 Hip Multipurpose Helicopters
172 Ka-27 Helix Attack Helicopters
36 Mi-24 Hind-D Attack and Insertion Helicopters
300 Yak-141 VTOL Naval Aircraft
70 Yak-38 Forger
190 MiG 29K Interceptor
80 MiG-31 Foxhounds
50 Su-47 Berkut all-weather fighter
80 Su-34 Flanker fighter/bombers
70 EA-6B Prowler recce aircraft

First Marine Division and Second Army – total: 550,000 troops with tanks, artillery, air-defence, attack-helicopters, engineers, AIFVs, medical units, etc etc.

Logistics Corps numbers: 1 million – mostly berthed on board the vessels of the Intervention Fleet, supplemented by aircraft.

oshi*facepalm*

Hmm, looks like I'll need a little more firepower ._.

No need, it's been mauled by Praetonian missiles! Accursed anti-anti-missile-defence-system stuff that they have. :p

Mind you, even with the losses it's still over 600 vessels including the unmolested submarines. ;)

ORBAT for Ezaltian forces:

200,000 Infantry

10,000 M-413A1 Panther
1,000 Behemoth III
10,000 CV90
10,000 Type 101 Badger
2,000 M270 MLRS
2,000 PzH-2000
25,000 Legionnaire S-15
1,000 Chainsaw Triple Minigun systems
Various trucks, etc.

1,000 F/A-401 Bird of Prey
1,000 Ka-50
500 F/A-501 Blizzard
500 F-119 Banshee
100 B-2
Various transport aircraft

So yeah, that's mine. Does anyone think it might be a little excessive?

Yeah just when we find out that its Ezaltia, the Sovereign League will invade you proper like!

What do you mean?

What do you mean?

Big ass invasion of your country.

I have a question for Atopiana and Ezaltia. I noticed you are airlifting some of your troops accross, including their heavy equipment(ie: Tanks, heavy artillery, heavy engineering equipment, etc).

How the hell are you going to land aforementioned heavy equipment? Incase you didnt already know, Iragia's airfields are inoperable(thanks to Vault 10) and you cannot paradrop such equipment.

His airfields are down? Well, crap.

Big ass invasion of your country.

If you want to invade me, go ahead. I'm bored out my skull. Just keep it fairly small, though.

well u could end up like Iragia and have enough invaders/defenders fighting in your lands to more than double your total population lol cant we just settle this over a pint?

As for the peacekeepers from Vault 10 and UK apparently having troops going into my towns already, thats a no go. Key coastlines (as in those near the ports) have been fortified, the waters around our ports have been mined, and all the towns, villages, etc have been fortified. Civil Defence is in every settlement, as they are in effect the police force, but also a paramilitary force, and they along with conscript and militia forces have fortified all the settlements. Minefields, trenches, bunkers. Granted, the defences around villages and towns won't be near as strong as those at the major cities like Hamilton, Antioch, Mill Towne, Tharkad, and Baker's Landing. If you want to get peacekeepers in to get to the civilians, then you're going to have to fight to get into those towns.


I'm not landing anyone on any beaches. I'm coming in from the air outside your nation...

Yeah, so Iragia operates on "first come - first pwn" basis.

Well, granted, some planes can operate w/o runways. It will just crash supersonic transports, overloaded aircraft, and other overkills, plus restrict speed of operations. But some troops and lighter vehicles can be landed or dropped just fine.


P.S. 2Ezaltia: Do you have oil, iridium, silver, uranium, titanium, or other natural resources?

P.S. 2Ezaltia: Do you have oil, iridium, silver, uranium, titanium, or other natural resources?

Oil, mostly, with a few uranium mines in the north. I'm pretty much a Norway 3x as big.

I'll warn you, though, that if you do invade me, you'll have the NEA to deal with, which includes TWSP, Wanderjar, Ackistan, Dartia (I think), Kroando (maybe), Naasha, Moorington, and a few other nations I may have forgotten.

why do you always ask people if they have those resources lol?

Yeah, so Iragia operates on "first come - first pwn" basis.

Well, granted, some planes can operate w/o runways. It will just crash supersonic transports, overloaded aircraft, and other overkills, plus restrict speed of operations. But some troops and lighter vehicles can be landed or dropped just fine.


P.S. 2Ezaltia: Do you have oil, iridium, silver, uranium, titanium, or other natural resources?

To whom was that directed to?

why do you always ask people if they have those resources lol?

I think he is doing a cost/benefit analysis.

Which doesnt sound like a bad idea actually... using this invasion as a way to gain some badly needed resources.

Yeah, so what are your natural resources, Ezaltia? :p (jk)

blah if im going to be overrun and insurgent fighting is beginning to end ill just initiate my apocolypse doctrine and nuke myself about 5 times lol

I think he is doing a cost/benefit analysis.

Which doesnt sound like a bad idea actually... using this invasion as a way to gain some badly needed resources.

Yeah, so what are your natural resources, Ezaltia? :p (jk)

Damn right, if I go to war with Ezaltia the public expect it to make prophet for Clandonian companies.

Damn right, if I go to war with Ezaltia the public expect it to make prophet for Clandonian companies.

Heh, you and me both know that someday we'll be fighting each other.:rolleyes:

Yeah, so Iragia operates on "first come - first pwn" basis.

Well, granted, some planes can operate w/o runways. It will just crash supersonic transports, overloaded aircraft, and other overkills, plus restrict speed of operations. But some troops and lighter vehicles can be landed or dropped just fine.


P.S. 2Ezaltia: Do you have oil, iridium, silver, uranium, titanium, or other natural resources?

I ask again, to whom was this directed to?

AS8A stats for you atopiana:
AS8A Anti Shipping Missile
Length: 11.9m
Wingspan: 3.72m
Diametre: .96m
Weight: 6,450kg
Speed: 1,250 m/s
Maximum Range: 710km
Propulsion Type: Liquid propellent rocket motor
Warhead: 270kg DU penetrating cap, 750kg shaped charge
Guidance: Inertial and active RADAR; some GPS guidance

Vault 10: Which one of your corporations is involved in this humanitarian effort by your country?

I'm still going to send my forces to the outside area of Iragia. There is nothing you could do because it is out of your reach and it is not in direct conflict of any of you.

AS8A stats for you atopiana:
AS8A Anti Shipping Missile
Length: 11.9m
Wingspan: 3.72m
Diametre: .96m
Weight: 6,450kg
Speed: 1,250 m/s
Maximum Range: 710km
Propulsion Type: Liquid propellent rocket motor
Warhead: 270kg DU penetrating cap, 750kg shaped charge
Guidance: Inertial and active RADAR; some GPS guidance
Hey, isn't it just a heavily WUPped P-700 Granit?

Vault 10: Which one of your corporations is involved in this humanitarian effort by your country?
Aerospace Logistics, as of now (well, it's truly humanitarian - they want to bring some immigration to their industry). Vault-Tec will join only with Interpol.


I ask again, to whom was this directed to?
About airports? To everyone.
About resources? Just to everyone who says "Jingo!" - I'm not asking this seriously, more aggressive corporations will.

Nah, not really its more based off other missiles <.<

Almohed: do you have any sort of large port where yuo dock most of your navy, like pearl harbour or scapa flow kinda thing? if you do can I get a brief run down on whats there and the defences?

Nah, not really its more based off other missiles <.<
Which??

So, is it alright if I have my forces landing outside the conflict zone?

Joining with prae and questers if they let me. >.>

Questers:

Um, not really, probably the biggest would be Uzziah Naval Base, about 100 miles north of the Almohed-Iragian border. My navy tends to constantly be on the move. It's really more of a pit stop. But we keep a corps (10,000 troops) there. A few hundred aircraft F4s, F-15s, F-16s, F-18s, B-2 Stealth Bombers, a bunch of eight barrelled AA. And about ten cruisers in bay (currently).

EDIT: Precise numbers:

75 F-4s
50 F-15s
75 F-16s
50 F-18s
50 B-2s

13,000 troops (not including crews)

12 CG-47 Ticonderogas (Cruisers)

By the way Iragia, I forgot the numbers that I gave you for my troops under your command, could you send me back the numbers so I can keep track if I have any casualties?

EDIT: I read Prae's post, and though I don't agree with having so many nations jump the small one, Prae is right, and I'm confused now, and I've been watching since Iragia massacred the protesters. So, if ya'll want, I'll pull out my actual involvement, and just let Iragia use the troops I've already committed, and be otherwise neutral. You know, allow anyone to use my airbases, no fighting in my airspace or in my borders, etc.

Almohed, at this point, it would probably be better for you to keep your stance, to go from supportitve to suddenly neutral would be too much of a turn for an all of a sudden thing, maybe anti-war movements over a course of a month or something?

Well, my posts so far have been pretty much the same thing. Neutral, kind of. We already announced our displeasure at the massacre, and at the form of government. But we offered Iragia much needed troops, and they accepted. It wouldn't be an automatic thing either. I had already given Iragia semi-complete control over all Almodite troops in his territory. It would really just limit my post amount, and the action that I personally would contribute to the RP.

I have a question for Atopiana and Ezaltia. I noticed you are airlifting some of your troops accross, including their heavy equipment(ie: Tanks, heavy artillery, heavy engineering equipment, etc).

How the hell are you going to land aforementioned heavy equipment? Incase you didnt already know, Iragia's airfields are inoperable(thanks to Vault 10) and you cannot paradrop such equipment.

Did you see me do reconnaissance?

Did you see me do satellite overflights?

NO!

Do you know what this is?

A first-class Grade A military FUCK UP! :D

The light stuff (the two Air Mobile Divisions and the single Paratroop Division) together with infantry, jeeps, light vehicles etc will all get down OK - but the rest will kinda... crash-land. Some, not all, of my transports can use rough, grass strips. More will just belly-flop and hope their cargos are vaguely intact.

Expect a certain GOC to get a 9mm reward. ;)

You might also take note that there are alternative places to paradrop things. Hell, you don't need an airfield to paradrop anything. My own Apocalypse Tanks (Invader Class) are much, much lighter than the ones transported by ship. However, my naval usage will be very low. In fact, my navy is only there to protect my ships.

No, no no. You misunderstand. I've deliberately created a position where my million or so troops are cut off and have to fight hard with little or no logistical support and haphazard air cover. I'm going to lose anyway, I want to make it a hard fought fight. :)

Besides, if I hang on long enough I can declare victory when everyone else goes away! :p

I'm going to lose anyway, I want to make it a hard fought fight. :)

Goes for the both of us, dude.

I'm trying to land in Almohed and deploy from there. I hope he lets me.:rolleyes:

Nice idea.
Hmm...
You know what this reminds me of? The invasion of..err...I forgot what country it was. However, it was this massive invasion of a country with over ten nations that grinded to a halt last year (after being alive for an entire year in Real-life!). Basically many nations left and my separist group took over 85% of Danteri (now I remembered). That was up until Haraki came in with the Gholgoth forces and beat back Alexander's forces. Then Vega had expelled Alexander from office. This, in-turn, ended the conflict.

Anyways, I'm not making aggressive actions ICly in this conflict.

My hanging-on-long enough plan hinges on First Army Group. At least most of them got to Iragia alive... I only lost about 12,000 soldiers. Hardly any!

I think it's time for the valiant Ezaltian rescuers to resupply the entrenched, surrounded Atopanians. Kinda like in Mogadishu, only a helluva lot bigger.

Well, I do have a crap load still left at home. (Population: 3.045 Billion and increases every day by five million.) So I'm not running out soon.

Anyways, I need an extention to the given map to include roughly ten to twenty miles outside of Iragia. This is to help ensure that my squadron can actually land. Thank you!

Good night everyone.

This is why I seriously advocate most new nations make their RPs closed for some time. If you try to do anything, the local "I think II is like Counterstrike" brigade usually lands on you like a sack of bricks.

I think it's time for the valiant Ezaltian rescuers to resupply the entrenched, surrounded Atopanians. Kinda like in Mogadishu, only a helluva lot bigger.

We're not entrenched or surrounded... yet. We're aggressively assaulting despite our lack of heavy equipment in Third Army, while Second Army is consolidating on the beachhead before driving south to support Third.

Um... obv IC no-one knows this yet! :p

Sorry I haven't posted we're having some pretty bad weather here .. ie .. quite a bit of snow. So I've been a little more busy then usual. Atopiana it looks like you slipped past me yesterday. I think that SHOULD have been harder then you think. As I pasted last earlier, I had ten battle groups in the area, that is ten aircraft carriers and their fleets. My new Coral Skimmers should have found at least a few of your landing craft, not mention my aircarft. Especially with a fleet the size of yours, which by the way seems to have grown from the original estimates.

http://usera.imagecave.com/Kormanthor/seaphantom_blue_sea.jpg

Questers did you say you had over 1300 aircraft on four carriers? Thats a bit much for four carriers don't you think? I have ten carriers in the area and don't have that many fighters. If these numbers are correct those carriers would have to much larger then anything in the RL.

Questers did you say you had over 1300 aircraft on four carriers? Thats a bit much for four carriers don't you think? I have ten carriers in the area and don't have that many fighters. If these numbers are correct those carriers would have to much larger then anything in the RL.

Supercarriers, my man, supercarriers.

even supercarriers only hold up to about 90 aircraft and thats pushing it to the max they usally hold only 60 something around 66-70 usally so to have 1300 aircraft he would need 14 supercarriers and to have that many planes on 4 carriers each one would have to hold 325 planes which even if that was possible you wouldn't have any room for anything else plus along with the logistics it would require to maintain a ship that size plus its aircraft would be impossible unless your carrier is literally a floating island which makes it a very easy target to hit plus it would cost you quadrillions of dollars to even construct one ship that size let alone 4 of them and then it'd cost you trillions just to maintain the thing so you'd go bankrupt pretty quickly so unless this is way future tech then i dont see how you'd have 1300 planes on 4 carriers even if they were as big as a Nimitz class

This is Questers, King of naval design on Nation States. A lot of people operate unrealistic ships such as huge 2 km super dreadnoughts.

Yes. And they even can be built. One should rather use their weaknesses against them. For instance, most "superdestroyers" are so fragile that they wouldn't pass a Lloyd's certification even for cargo ships, let alone passenger.

even supercarriers only hold up to about 90 aircraft and thats pushing it to the max they usally hold only 60 something around 66-70 usally so to have 1300 aircraft he would need 14 supercarriers and to have that many planes on 4 carriers each one would have to hold 325 planes which even if that was possible you wouldn't have any room for anything else plus along with the logistics it would require to maintain a ship that size plus its aircraft would be impossible unless your carrier is literally a floating island which makes it a very easy target to hit plus it would cost you quadrillions of dollars to even construct one ship that size let alone 4 of them and then it'd cost you trillions just to maintain the thing so you'd go bankrupt pretty quickly so unless this is way future tech then i dont see how you'd have 1300 planes on 4 carriers even if they were as big as a Nimitz class

Good lord man, at least make some attempt with grammar and seperating large blocks of text. Huge blocks of text make baby Jesus cry...

OOC: Still, no modern supercarrier, or projected supercarrier, can accomodate 325 planes

OOC: Still, no modern supercarrier, or projected supercarrier, can accomodate 325 planes

This is NS, world of the Superdreadnought, supertank, and blimps that are seemingly invincible. A little imagination is required.

[ BTW - this thread is all OOC ]
[ Read with sarcasm ]

These are not real or modern, these are NS designs. For most people, the art of designing a ship consists of taking a standard block to list specs, pick his nose, guess some numbers and put them there, then write about how cool it is. So the ships tend to be:
- Huge;
- Vastly underpriced, and therefore assumedly of very low quality;
- Unbalanced;
- Reportedly insanely cool.
Sometimes, they are simply not possible, but better designs are possible yet usually still problematic. However, the more same-role similar SD you make (therefore denying any economy of scale, but claiming to have even more of it), the better your ships are assumed to be (although it would actually deny the chance of refining them). Also, as everyone knows, making something unnecessary more complicated always makes it better.

You can do it too. If you see everyone else is using unrealistic and ineffective things, follow the lemmings and make your own to claim they pwn - conformism is great power! The usual way is to take two and make an average.

Good lord man, at least make some attempt with grammar and seperating large blocks of text. Huge blocks of text make baby Jesus cry...

Sorry, Im quite busy multi-tasking watching a 10 yr old and a 9 yr old along with writing a paper, and chit chating on here. My apologies to baby jesus lol.

And I am aware that a lot of people use huge ships, etc. etc. which does make things more interesting. I was simply offering some stats based off of RL ships.

Sorry, Im quite busy multi-tasking watching a 10 yr old and a 9 yr old along with writing a paper, and chit chating on here. My apologies to baby jesus lol.

And I am aware that a lot of people use huge ships, etc. etc. which does make things more interesting. I was simply offering some stats based off of RL ships.

Baby Jesus hereby accepts your apologies, and hopes that you will accept Skgorria's...Skgorria hate bad grammars

Its all good, I will attempt to adhere to proper grammar from now on.

Yes Gataway, I'm quite aware of the capacity of the US Carrier Fleet thank you very much, now please put it into the context of my nation's military expenditure and engineering capabilities which far surpasses that of the US.

damn calm down questers I was just using RL facts relevant to the discussion. This isn't RL and I'm aware of that no need to get your panties in a knot over it

Expenditure capabilities, but not engineering.

Considering the amount of research, time, and experience, yes.

this is gonna get interesting

Nope.

Usually the head engineer is among the best ones. If he isn't, it's a severe problem with systems engineering.

Now, it means other engineers are less skilled. So... well, a nation's engineering is only as strong as the player's skills.




The exception is nations who don't assume the head engineer's role.

So, essentially, what you're saying is that if I'm not an engineer (like you, coincidentally), my nation - which has years and years of experience and is considered a leader in naval engineering - isn't actually extremely strong in that field.

Which would also mean, if you're not a builder, your nations houses would be shit?

1. Yes.
(Coincidentally, check my profile - that's why many things appear totally weird and failing to me.)

Admittedly, you aren't bad at this (better than most), but still there are flaws. Your nation is better than most NS nations, but worse than RL ones, judging from respective designs.



2. No. Because I don't design my houses.

For instance, my nation's strong point is aerospace (because it's the only transport), but I'm very reserved about designing anything flying, and, when I do, I keep strict MT for safety, and start a long thread, waiting a lot in the meantime to refine the mistakes.

I can't make myself believe a sane nation would appoint a head engineer less qualified than his subordinates.

We are taking this debate further than it needs to go. The original complaint was about the size of carriers, and included an implicit assertion that it is not possible to build a carrier bigger than a Nimitz simply because one has not been built in real life. This is clearly untrue - cargo ships have been built much bigger than the Nimitz, and there is no technical reason why they couldn't be even bigger if correctly designed to take the additional stress. I would have thought it would be fairly uncontraversial to say that it is possible to build a carrier that can carry 355 (or whatever) planes.

Now however we are digressing somewhat, discussing the wider issues created by player-designed technology. Not only does this not answet the question posed but it is irrelevent to the RP and will only cause unnecessary friction between participants. It seems to be a fairly common sense approach to allow people to design their own technology to the extent they feel comfortable with, and assume everything else is done in a manner in accordance with the general competence they RP their contractor having in that particular field. It can be very useful for an RP to know how many guns and missiles a ship has - not so useful to know how the ventilation system works.

Most people who design ships and design them well have them peer-reviewed before releasing them to iron out problems in any case. I don't see why this should be a problem nor, indeed, as I have said, why it is directly relevent to the original discussion or to the RP as a whole.

1. Agreed. And even more.

2. Good contractors or not, but a nation which builds battleships more fragile than modern merchant ships clearly has some severe problems with engineering.

Mind it, I don't say it should be RPed. I accept it to be on RL level. I just think that existence of many flawed designs isn't a justification to say "my engineering is much better than yours". Well, it's OK if the player isn't a specialist and still makes designs. It isn't OK if he claims his engineers are good because of that.

From what I have read (and correct me if I'm wrong), but your argument for NS battleship designs being weaker than RL merchant ship designs seems to rest on $/tonne ratios and construction quality you have inferred from that, rather than from what people have explicitly written. If this is the case I would be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt, since they would probably set the prices appropriately for high quality construction techniques if they had anything better than guesswork to go on.

Vault 10. If you don't like the designs, then why not either ignore anyone using them or accept them? That way more pointless OOC discussion can be avoided, and the thread reserved for Iragia matters...

No, not just cost. I'm not that evil. Well, I am, but cost isn't enough reason. They are based on primary longitudinal strength calculations using given figures and pictures.

Basically, a ship is a huge beam. A huge, complex beam, experiencing insane, dynamic and complex loads. Measured in billions of foot-pounds or newton-meters for large ships. The static load for a beam of given proportions is proportional to L^2*B*D^2. Load carrying capability is proportional to B*D^3*c, where c is coefficient of beam fullness, generally constant or falling.
Now... You get it? Fourth power against third. And dynamic load is even worse; and that doesn't even consider the length-proportional stress concentration factor.

And, considering the armor carried, these have (do have) quite low freeboard/beam ratio. Not higher than RL ones, that's for sure. Now, calc the B*D^3/(L^2*B*D^2) for a chosen SD. For simplicity, D/L^2 will do. Just in case, D is depth - draft+freeboard; generally freeboard<draft.
Now take the figure for SD of choice and compare it to Yamato or Iowa.
I would do it myself, but I don't want to offend anyone.

Well, taking Hood hardly could offend, it's too famous, and one of the better designed. So:
Hood - 84/1902^2=23 e-6
Iowa - 19/260^2=280 e-6
It's the relative static longitudinal strength factor. Now, for dynamic load with stress concentration it falls at between L^0.4 and L^0.7. For good situation, it's about L^0.5, meaning approx. 0.52 versus 17.5 - Iowa is over 30 times stronger (relatively). Now, well, making it thick, dense, concentrating on structure can improve this... but still not to the level one would expect for a passenger-carrying ship.


P.S.
It's not me who started about "my engineering is so much better".

And I have no need to ignore them - they'll crack from a single torpedo or receive more damage from a good storm than one would expect. And that's also where the cost-savings will take their toll.

Well, then it could give a reason to. Nope, of course, one can build such a thingie, it's just that LRS would turn it away for a reason.

we've created an engineering monster lol

Erm...could this be taken to Draftroom. You know, where it belongs, so we don't spam up the thread with inane debates?

I don't want to risk making the heroic Last Thread. No offense to anyone, just that I feel safer here with more relaxed rules - and I know I say unpleasant things, although they are all found (in a less concentrated and so less offensive form) in the textbooks.
Maybe in a separate thread here or elsewhere.

If you're afraid of getting banned from draftroom you can do it on lineartinc.

Even I think Lineartinc is clearly not the place - it's about pictures, not structure engineering, and I don't want to violate the rules. NS forums seem just fine: we had a lot of threads on such topics here. Maybe another thread would be needed, that's all.

I would like to shift matters onto the guy with the flying airships that are somehow the same status as battleships and carriers. Can we ignore him?

(Read IC Thread if you dont know what I am talking about.)

What airships? I haven't seen any.

[ Well, I've read all the thread, but you get what I mean. ]

Here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12320980&postcount=58

He posted again, saying that those 'flying transports' landed his troops.

EDIT: Oh, and can you reply to the offer I made to your corporation?

Yes, I've read it, and I read the post about airships, but IC I haven't seen any airships there.

For the offer - it has to wait... Keep in mind we haven't nearly filled our hovercraft, as Iragia put up some resistance.

engineering rant
God I love this boy – he’s a legend!

But anyway, the purpose of international incidents is about role-playing. If something enhances the feel of a role-play then it should be accepted, purely because it makes ii more fun. We are well aware that designing huge ships takes years of hard study, that is why all ns designed weaponry is based on real technology – just pimped out to the max. In order to demonstrate this point, I shall quote Commodore Tyrwhitt: “Stupid great things, but very beautiful.”. This is the key to having fun rp-ing, the practicality of something takes less significance in respect to its ability to make an rp good.

This is NS, world of the Superdreadnought, supertank, and blimps that are seemingly invincible. A little imagination is required.
Surely you mean superwank! Sorry, I just saw it and thought that…

Its all good, I will attempt to adhere to proper grammar from now on.
Ahh! Incorrect grammar! Surely you mean “It’s all good”?

So, anyway, in conclusion: “beauty is truth and truth is beauty” holds water in the ns world due to the fact that everyone has more fun. Not to say that the idea of a super-dreadnought is ridiculous in the extreme and should be quite easy to defeat if it wasn’t protected by vessels which are practical.

Now, on the subject of Iragia where were we? *cue the movement back to what this is supposed to be about*

Uhh… prae, I need to talk to you…

Sorry for being away for a day or so. Just been working too gosh aweful hard.

Wow, Vault 10, if you can provide more solid evidence that your formulas are correct (who knows, you might just be making it up ... not saying you are) then you may well just killed the >400kt ship, though that isn't neccessarily a good thing, considering people will now start running round with hundreds of Iowas...

...But this isn't a "game balance" discussion, you can take that to another thread or TND. Or even LINC, if you're worried about posting it on TND, since LINC basically has no rules.

Iragia (or anyone who knows) is there anything south or east of your nation that isn't your nation?

Atopiana it looks like you slipped past me yesterday. I think that SHOULD have been harder then you think. As I pasted last earlier, I had ten battle groups in the area, that is ten aircraft carriers and their fleets. My new Coral Skimmers should have found at least a few of your landing craft, not mention my aircarft. Especially with a fleet the size of yours, which by the way seems to have grown from the original estimates.

This is all moot. My 640 ships have all been sunk. ALL OF THEM. They landed (most) of 2nd Army before the last 1,000 missile salvo from Questers blew them out of the water.

My Intervention fleet now consists of a load of lifeboats beached on Iragia and 100 Oscar-II attack submarines who fired 400 torpedoes at another fleet before legging it for home.

My 'original estimate' was an estimate. I posted an ORBAT ages ago. If your radarmen were asleep, that's not my problem.

Sure, but it depends on what I have to base it. Did you have the basic strength of materials course on beams?


If so, take the ship as a solid beam. It isn't, but the smaller the ship, the closer it is to the solid beam. Larger ones are on the weak side due to stress concentrations (taking a huge I-beam won't help - it will be even worse).
Beam stiffness is determined by I, which is the antiderivative of Rz^2*b, where b is local strength and Rz is distance from point to the center line (not ship's CL), along Z axis. Well, or, simply, it is Y*Z^3*c, where Y is beam (obviously, put two beams together - get double strength), Z is depth (again, two beams one on another - quad strength), c is form coefficient, which is pretty much constant.
Load is determined by M, which is antiderivative of X*M. Since distribution is the same, it grows linearly with X, and linearly with M. Total M is X*Y*Z*c2, where c2 is coefficient, Y and Z are the same.

So in total load grows as X^2*Y*Z, and stress as X^2*Y*Z^2, while stiffness as Y*Z^3. Or, for ship, this comes to the post above with that specifically described.

This is elaborated further in the more dedicated mechanics and strength of ship courses, and, of course, using specific moments and calculus rather than these bar equations.


That doesn't mean very heavy ships can't be made, though. They just have to be different. Quite different and much less sexy, since there size is much more of issue by itself. Actually, IRL, ships under 400ft, 400-600ft, 600-1000ft, 1000-1500ft long (all LPP) are very different categories to construct, with very different considerations. Supercaps can be built, but they have to be very different.
Actually I would elaborate on it and design one (I mean - sketch it in Tribon, give calc data, etc), but here we come to Krendakov's point:


But anyway, the purpose of international incidents is about role-playing. If something enhances the feel of a role-play then it should be accepted, purely because it makes ii more fun.
Yes. But, unfortunately, supercaps aren't any longer something you spend a week designing, roleplay a month constructing, and then play each high officer there. Nope. Today it's a stat block you fill in, two pages of text you pour random technobabble into, and armadas of them you wank out of your magic defense budget, never mind you actually may have no seaports at all.
Today it's just "my SD start to bomb you with shells in order to totally pwn you". Well, it never actually was like the first example, but now they are totally pathetic and uncreative. Missile spam? Good players show more creativity in playing missile attacks than most players with SD crowds. I won't even speak on how much more RPing with carriers offers, let alone full-scale combined fleets.
Yes, it takes skill and some knowledge. More than filling in the standard 5-phrase SD attack cliche, and exposes lack of skill more comically. But I'm fine with that.

Vault, this is why I prefer buying Soviet tech off-the-shelf. :D Saves time, money and effort. Plus it's, well, already been designed by capable people.

Note that my one and only Superdreadnought (again shop-bought) got hit by four missiles and sank. :P

I hate naval tech-wankery as much as the next sentient, and I'm not a fan of PMT in MT threads. Which is what this one was, or so I thought... nevermind, my fleet is dead and First Army Group may well follow soon!

Great, I get back onto this thread and everyone has logged off...:headbang:

Sure, but it depends on what I have to base it. Did you have the basic strength of materials course on beams?

No, unfortunately. This is just a hobby of mine of which I'm rather interested in - I would do further research, but really, as a high school student, I have neither money nor time, and in any case I'm not even scientifically minded enough to learn things as advanced as a university course.

Actually I would elaborate on it and design one (I mean - sketch it in Tribon, give calc data, etc)

I would appreciate it - if you could find the time to do that - if you could TG me what you've done, if you do it.


Yes. But, unfortunately, supercaps aren't any longer something you spend a week designing, roleplay a month constructing, and then play each high officer there. Nope. Today it's a stat block you fill in, two pages of text you pour random technobabble into, and armadas of them you wank out of your magic defense budget, never mind you actually may have no seaports at all.
Today it's just "my SD start to bomb you with shells in order to totally pwn you". Well, it never actually was like the first example, but now they are totally pathetic and uncreative. Missile spam? Good players show more creativity in playing missile attacks than most players with SD crowds. I won't even speak on how much more RPing with carriers offers, let alone full-scale combined fleets.
Yes, it takes skill and some knowledge. More than filling in the standard 5-phrase SD attack cliche, and exposes lack of skill more comically. But I'm fine with that.

I really think thats an exaggeration of how it works. Honestly, I would like to think that people would put an amount of effort into their supercapitals. Besides, for posts attacking fleets in backwater wars, people often don't tend to write out giant amounts of detail for tihngs they assume are taken care of by their officers.

No, unfortunately. This is just a hobby of mine of which I'm rather interested in - I would do further research, but really, as a high school student, I have neither money nor time, and in any case I'm not even scientifically minded enough to learn things as advanced as a university course.
Well, for the basic statics, there's nothing too advanced. Basically, any book on strength of materials will do.

Out of what's totally easy to get... well, maybe Wikipedia has some info. Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler-Bernoulli_beam_equation , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam_(structure) , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_of_materials and linked topics. They don't have much, but surely have some good links. Though it's much better explained offline, in books (just borrow it from someone, or from a library), or best in a university course, since diagrams are important. But a book will do it nice.
It won't explain the further complications, but will show the direction.


I would appreciate it - if you could find the time to do that - if you could TG me what you've done, if you do it.
It would take time. It's one thing to just put a design in Tribon and see how exactly fragile it is, and completely another to make a realistic design. And you know I'm pretty slow in making designs - it took me over a month and about 50 hours of reading and discussions to sketch out an assault rifle, about half that for a chopper (though it has to be finalized yet), will take a few months for a tank. Making a supercap work isn't an easy task, and computers don't really help except for checking it (though M3 can throw out NS-level "stat blocks" in a matter of minutes, it will only work correctly for mid-sized realistic ships).
If I spend a lot of time to do this, I'll surely at least use it in NS, and I'm not too inclined to add fuel to the SD fad. I'm not so naive to expect to reverse the trend, and I don't have a particular dislike towards battleships, but at least now I can play in non-intersecting universes with the pastmodernism (or, specifically, retro-futurism).


What I can tell now, though, is:
- No mile-long battleships are feasible with even remotely regular construction. The primary longitudinal strength requirements imply high depth and beam, which in turn imply crossing the size point where vertical load is small, and turn into a task of constructing something very special. Skyscraper-like height brings new implications, particularly bad because the external load is triaxial.
Materials capable of handling the loads without major increase of cross-section are, as of now, unknown to be possible. Nanotubes handle only tension, not compression. Probably only the FT mynationium will do it.
The only feasible alternative for such length is a radical change in the vessel construction, and I mean not just internal, but visible radical change, also interfering with combat capabilities. And, again, it will not even remotely resemble a normal warship. In general, rigid structures this size are a bad idea. Even real large ships have extended flexibility considerations.

- Oversized ships have to be short and stubby, highly focused on strength. "Liberty-like" came to be probably the worst insult to a ship, but not only cutting costs means problems. The consequences of fragility and overload are well seen on bulk ore carriers. These ships, even well-built, suffer from catastrophic failures: sometimes the ship suddenly, in seconds, falls down. Sometimes they break apart, sometimes just have their bulkheads broken, crack in many places and fall like a rock. The reasons are small relative height (because the cargo is so heavy, it doesn't take much space) and high load - all common issues for SD as well.

- The general vulnerability to successive torpedo damage increases with size, and tolerability doesn't compensate that due to high stresses, growing non-linearly with damage.


I really think thats an exaggeration of how it works. Honestly, I would like to think that people would put an amount of effort into their supercapitals.
I would like too. However, as of now, it's clear that they don't. Most supercaps take a page of text - a disgrace for anything more than a cargo ship. "Our new superdreadnought!" - that's all, just more power, plus some technobabble, plus some extra w.
Not something to be excited at.

Well, the OOC thread seems busy... yet the IC thread is dormant. All well.

The current overuse of SDs and ignoring of their problems is annoying, but something I find far more irritating about NS naval warfare in general are how people make new ship designs so often. No navy in existence can afford to replace entire classes every few months. This is especially flagrant with certain SD users.

I really wish people would focus more on upgrading and modifying existing designs rather than almost always popping out a new hull type whenever they get an idea for some minor variation or find some new flavor of the month tech (though, really, most of II is guilty of this).

I repeat, again, that the Atopian Naval Service uses off-the-shelf Soviet tech with electronics upgrades and some newer, self-produced systems (e.g. the door seals on our Udaloys were upgraded, the emergency lighting system was improved, and the gun turrets turned faster).

Then the supernavies turned up. Honestly, if I have to lose 600+ ships just to land a fucking army, I'm going to invest in teleportation research! :p

Well, Soviet tech is notoriously bad (compared to Brit or US) for its AA, and since I attacked with just aeroplanes... :p

Agreed. Next lot of ships are getting a refit and better AA capability - MiG-29K fighter cover is all very well, but some SAMs would be nice. Either that or I just need to have a Skgorrian-style strategic air fleet comprised of Tu-22M with Raduga-Kh anti-ship cruise missiles. :p

I do that too :P

Well, Soviet tech is notoriously bad (compared to Brit or US) for its AA
What epoch do you mean? That's true for 60s-70s chaotic AA system, but 80s configuration, and especially 2000s renovated is quite different. Light ones like Stinger and Igla are basically on par, current Russian overall surveillance (sats, radar stations) is weaker, but USUK tech somewhat lacks in system resilience. There's no equivalent to the fully mobile three-tier system with S-400 core - Patriot is a medium-range compromise, too expensive for mid-range AA as in Soviet system meaning, while not capable of long-range operation like S-400. It's true that their electronics is less complicated, but, then, we have seen what the complicated electronics of Patriot really means (that barracks case).

I meant naval wise <.<

That... Well, yes, here, truly, there are no AEGIS destroyers, so Soviet tech lacks in the medium range tier. However, Kirov is quite an example of well capable heavy long-range air defense cruiser, carrying S-300, and now S-400 equipment. Modern Indian-Russian ships might change that, though, reintroducing capable medium-range defense.

So the Atopian Navy is alright for long-range and close-in defence against aircraft, but requires improvements to the medium-range? Fair enough.

I'm beginning to think I need to overhaul my military. :P

Hey BL, when you get the chance, could you post the losses from my airstrike?

I'm beginning to think I need to overhaul my military. :P

I'd love to help you with that. TG me if you're serious.

Well, what I sent to Iragia is all previously used equipment, that was going to be updated anyway. I'm slowly converting from US equipment to full Israeli...for the most part. Israeli ground forces. And I may do some mixing when it comes to my air force. But I'm upgrading my military right now from M1 Abrams to Merkava Mark IVs.

EDIT: I think I'm going to upgrade my aircraft carriers to the yet to be built CVN-79 which will be a Ford Class Aircraft Carrier. Building will not start on it IRL until 2010 though. But I don't see a problem with getting a head start on the US Navy. :D :P

Dephire, my assumption was that two other nations would be east and south, but since I haven't determined who they would be, I'm simply leaving it blank for now. If you need to land, just land on the beach, you could land at the south and advance onto Galacey and the other southern settlements.

Iragia, don't feel like you have to end the war yourself. If you want to continue fighting, go ahead. It will just mean a large mass of Almodite troops coming to your aid. But I just typed that message to give a sense of what the Emporer is feeling. He was wanting this to be a quick victory or defeat.

I'm not necessarily ending it, just changing the dynamics of it. I've also been giving consideration to what a post war government would be like, and have been inspired by the honorverse series of books in what happens to the People's Republic of Haven and I'm thinking of creating a Department of Civil Security to take charge of things from the present Civil Defence Corps, with some sort of a puppet democratic government, or at least a government that can be coerced by Civil Security. And as for the overthrow of the Premier-General, well, even after he dies, it will be sometime before Civil Defence asserts control, so the fighting will continue a good while I imagine.

If the main fighting does end and peacekeepers take control, there'll be a substantial amount of fighting by insurgent groups and members of the old regime.

Skyian F/A-84 Intercept Flight

Despite their bay doors opening and showing their position that was only momentary. The bay doors snapped shut, making the AIM-120Ds lose their radar signatures, their interial guidance would keep them on course towards the Skyian fighters.

However, by the time the active radar feed came on and into range, the fighters would be gone, they bugged out, moving farther from the border, but staying out of SAM range of forces inland, keeping high up and slow they masked their radar, IR and sound/sight signatures, they were almost untouchable. And soon their numbers would triple. All of the prototypes would be deployed, as this required stealth, speed and deadlyness.

Operation: Bird Cage had begun.

I have to call godmodding on this one.

Stealth isn't perfect. With that massive radar you're packing, the Slammers have a good target to follow.

Hey TSS, can you drop your naval deployment somewhat? Me and praetonia have only deployed, together, like 200 ships and we still have the area sealed off.

Supercarriers, my man, supercarriers.


My carriers involved here are super carriers and each carrys 105 fixed wing
aircraft.

Here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12320980&postcount=58

He posted again, saying that those 'flying transports' landed his troops.

EDIT: Oh, and can you reply to the offer I made to your corporation?


He's talking about hoovercraft ships of the line. I have those in my FT Navy but I don't think they are possible in MT.

Allanea, my Air Mobile divisions - of which there are four - are liberally equipped with attack helicopters. There are around 4,000 Ka-50 attack helis, a couple of thousand Hind-Ds, and then the rest are a combination of Mi-8s and other such choppers. Lots and lots of anti-armour weapons, not to mention a vast quantity of 30mm cannon and other anti-infantry stuff.

They'll hit your three-division thrust first. Then the mechanised and armoured units will arrive. The artillery is all MSTA-S 152mm, the AA is Tunguska-M which has 30mm cannon and SAMs.

My SpecOps are attacking you in groups of about 10, loads and loads of pinprick harrassment attacks on your convoys as they move up to Baker's Landing.

This is all moot. My 640 ships have all been sunk. ALL OF THEM. They landed (most) of 2nd Army before the last 1,000 missile salvo from Questers blew them out of the water.

My Intervention fleet now consists of a load of lifeboats beached on Iragia and 100 Oscar-II attack submarines who fired 400 torpedoes at another fleet before legging it for home.

My 'original estimate' was an estimate. I posted an ORBAT ages ago. If your radarmen were asleep, that's not my problem.


It isn't that my radarmen were asleep, the problem stems from the fact that I was unable to get time to come online the day you landed because of RL concerns.

My carriers involved here are super carriers and each carrys 105 fixed wing
aircraft.

Evidently I have a different classification for supercarrier than you do.

It isn't that my radarmen were asleep, the problem stems from the fact that I was unable to get time to come online the day you landed because of RL concerns.

Well, boo and hiss. :p My ships are sunk, my submarines fled to home ports, and First Army Group's 2nd and 3rd Armies are ashore and heavily engaged.

Looks like the Intervention Fleet heroically and cunningly slipped through your radar net! :D Before being heroically sunk to the last vessel... :rolleyes:

Dephire, my assumption was that two other nations would be east and south, but since I haven't determined who they would be, I'm simply leaving it blank for now. If you need to land, just land on the beach, you could land at the south and advance onto Galacey and the other southern settlements.

Thanks.

I have to call godmodding on this one.

Stealth isn't perfect. With that massive radar you're packing, the Slammers have a good target to follow.

Radars can be turned off, and besides the AMRAAM doesn't have a radiation seeking mode, besides, the radar on the AMRAAM even in active mode(which doesn't activate until the last 20-30km of flight, it's on intertial the rest of the way). doesn't have more power then the F-22's AN/APG-77, which can only detect a craft of F-22 level steathlyness (.0001m^2 RCS I belive) at 20km, giving me plent of time to scoot away, especially since I have about half the RCS of an F-22.

And besides, AESA radars are Low-probability of intercept, meaning ARMs have a lot harder time tracking them.

Matt: Most of the fleet will leave once I land troops. This is really just cause the large amount of transports needed.

Iragia: It's not all across Iragia, it's about a 20x20km square on/next to the coast. And a such a concentration of vehicles and troops would have easily been seen on RADAR and IR, so having them magically pop-up to shoot at me doesn't work. And besides, troops need time to train on new equippment, they can't just use them right away, and I doubt TPF could smuggle them into the country that fast.

Forgive me for not paying too much attention, but where is most of the "heated" fighting occuring at?

The primary place of battle is Baker's Landing, there are also battles starting at that town in the North. Finally, my own troops are storming the Southern Port City of Antioch.

Radars can be turned off, and besides the AMRAAM doesn't have a radiation seeking mode, besides, the radar on the AMRAAM even in active mode(which doesn't activate until the last 20-30km of flight, it's on intertial the rest of the way). doesn't have more power then the F-22's AN/APG-77, which can only detect a craft of F-22 level steathlyness (.0001m^2 RCS I belive) at 20km, giving me plent of time to scoot away, especially since I have about half the RCS of an F-22.

And besides, AESA radars are Low-probability of intercept, meaning ARMs have a lot harder time tracking them.

Meh, I don't really feel like arguing right now.

Atopiana, how concentrated are your divisions? I feel like carpet bombing something.

Atopiana, how concentrated are your divisions? I feel like carpet bombing something.

Not very.

The most concentrated division just got clusterfucked by enemy artillery, while my beachhead defenders are well spread out and being shelled.

The schwerpunkt of my assault on the Allaneans is engaged in close fighting with, well, your own side, so unless you want a blue-on-blue... they're out.

Feel free to aimlessly bomb my general positions, you'll give my AA systems a work out. ;)

Okay SS, I wasn't sure if you were concentrated or not, most of those guns are simply generic twin or quad gun batteries, many of which were in service long before this conflict, most of the weapons I purchased were missile batteries that were never delivered. You can drop your casualties substantially since they were concentrated to that one location.

I'll leave them, flak would kill alot of them, as would the HMG once they landed. Besides, it's more fun. :D

OOC: Actually, the AIM-120 does have home-on-jam feature, TSS.

Some Quick Questions:

1) Iragia, you are going to fight to the bitter end within your own contry, correct?

2) If the above statement's answer is 'no', then are you going to retreat outside of your nation?

3) About how many total forces are we talking here all together?

4) About how many different factions and sides are there?

1) Not quite, Ezaltia is gonna drop some bunker busters on the Premier-General. Then Lt. Gen Mason and the Civil Defence Corps will seize power, wipe out the remnants of the Liberation Forces (the primary military force, largely wiped out at Baker's Landing and Antioch) and seek a truce with the invaders.

2) I doubt there's going to be a retreat, though I suppose it may be possible to retreat into Almohed with his consent. Depends on how things turn out.

3) Presently, Iragia probably has around 300,000 fighters left. These are the remains of the Liberation Forces, the Army of the People's Republic (poorly trained and armed conscripts), the Civil Defence Corps (in effect, the police force), and the unorganized militia which is anyone willing to grab a gun and fight, or was grabbed by a soldier, given a gun, and told to fight. Only one company of tanks is left over in Tharkad, and virtually all of our AA is now gun. We still have IFVs and APCs in the south around Galacey, in the north based out of Mill Towne, and some in Tharkad. Civil Defence armoured cars mounting 14.5mm guns are in every settlement, though concentrated in the larger, named, cities. Some heavy artillery is left in the areas not yet attacked, but most of it was along the coast. Large numbers of mortars, recoiless rifles, and man-portable rocket launchers are being used by the conscripts, and a handful by Civil Defence, and the surviving Liberation Forces personnel, but with the strikes in the north and along the coast, most of Iragia's heavy arsenal is gone. There are still 75 MiG-29 fighters, but their airstrips are useless so they've been abandoned, and their armament stripped off for use by ground forces.

4)2 main sides, with a third side just trying to get to civilians but they're going to have to fight it out with the defenders first. On my side and presently engaged in operations are Almohed, Atopiana, and Ezaltia.

Iragia, I need you to respond to my post here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12337946&postcount=139

Okay, well I'm rather ticked at these servers. Typed out an extremely long and detailed post of 'The Dephirian Front' in which my forces, after swelling, finally descend upon Iragia. The server crashed just as I posted, and now it's lost forever. (See my disappointment?)

Total Forces;

Army: 3,000,000 Soldiers (1:10:1000 Ratio between HellKnight, DeathKnight, and actual Soldiers)

Tanks: 400 Apocalypse I-Class, 350 Borakule Artillery Pieces, 75 Scorpions

Ships: 1500 (1:50:150 ratio of Captial-Ranked Godsend ships to HellKnight to DeathKnight. 1:250:500 Aircraft Carriers to Battleships to Other.)

Aircraft: 500 fighters, 125 bombers, 500 transports (1:50 large to small)

Logistics: Several hundred million people working behind the scenes....