NationStates Jolt Archive

I think we could continue our discussion here. I couldn't remember if we had started an OOC thread specifically for this thread, so...

I guess the two main issues in that there were some concerns over the logistics that were being claimed by the Progs and a lot of discussion regarding relative merits of tech.

Tsar Wingert the Great.

OOC: Because, Q, you would then be using future tech in A Modern World, that's what's to stop you. The only reason that Russian ships stand to get plastered against Indian ships is that Indian ships are cutting edge modern and Russian ships are no where near it.

Russia could start trying to turn out modern ships -but not future tech ones- to catch up. (Though I might wonder if they have the capability given that the AMW USSR suffered even more than the RL one, fell harder, lost more, got nuked, evacuated some industry to a country that since turned hostile for years, lost key commercial and marine facilities to Lyong, went through a destructive war on corruption, a coup, a blue-blood threat to the still infant attempt to introduce capitalism, lost a lot of trade with a lot of the world, then flung itself into war, and so on.)

As to the missiles, well, there you go, you claimed to be using the wrong missiles, and the rest of us aren't mind readers, so that's where much of the confusion arose.

On the attack on Yugoslav fighters, that was a change in tactics, wasn't it, some time into a few-days-old war, and may have come, I think, after Yugoslavia's reference to just two L-20 losses on the front, didn't it? I was vaguely aware of the change, but since it can't have been more than a fe days ago, and probably coincided with the arrival of a couple of Soviet squadrons, I assume that Yugoslavia's air force still has a lot left in it.

And you can certainly strike at Belgrade, but not without CS-400 Red Sky going active over the city ;)

I'm just wondering, when was it that the League first invaded Malta? And did they shoot at the Al Khalis while they were doing it?

This is strange coming from one who constantly claims that his tanks are a full generation ahead of mine, which would by your definition make it future tech, wouldn’t it?

The tactics were the same, with me aggressively coming at him in every situation. At first, he said that he wasn’t committing any air units to that front, giving me free reign.

And as for being mind readers, I wasn’t expecting it, I made a mistake a fessed up. But even if I continued with the K-22s, they would have been far more effective than you are making them out to be.

And this CS-400 Red Sky thingy? This is exactly what I am talking about. Is there a RL equivalent? Or is it just “I n000000k ur planes 111!” I mean, really, it is that combination of fictional tech and attitude that is starting this dialogue.

I must however, commend the players, both LRR and China, for posting their RL equivalents on invision, it will certainly be a great point of reference.

WWJD
Amen.

And this CS-400 Red Sky thingy? This is exactly what I am talking about. Is there a RL equivalent? Or is it just “I n000000k ur planes 111!”

WWJD
Amen.

You called it; to me it seems mostly like a "LOL, silly (fill in unit), u get pwnaged!" Anytime BG clarifies, usually when a technology issue of any sort comes up, it just basically turns into a "it pwns all of u" and rarely does it seem any of our questions are put to rest; obviously, since we haven't had a technology debate happen once without it cropping up.

I just say trash it, its real job seems only to spark debate and 'A Modern World' can hardly be 'A Modern World for everyone but those who practice collectivism, then it’s A post-Modern World.'

Some of this is starting to sound quite daft, now.

Soviet India's only fleet aircraft carrier has faulty wiring in hard-to-reach places, uneaven quality of metals throughout, poorly thought-out damage control, and a wealth of mechanical faults and safety questions. Our SSGNs are far, far slower than those of other superpowers. We don't even have a strategic bomber force. We have no pure stealth aircraft. Our standard heavy machinegun is too heavy to be carried intact or by less than a good number of men. We still use Land Rovers and have no Humvee equivalent. We have no heavy mortar system. Our short-range air-to-air missile -though better than most- is markedly inferior to Yugoslavia's. We've put only our second battleship on hold for economic reasons. We've only just launched our first ever cruiser. The Black Flag Class warships are wildly unpopular with those who've served aboard them and have under-performed in battle. Our standard maritime patrol aircraft is little more than a glorified DC-3 with short range, low-loiter time, and characteristics contributing to inordinate crew fatigue.

CS-400 is world-class, but is inferior to what is possible, and notably is inferior to CS-500 Arawan, of which only a couple of batteries exist due to inordinate expense and lingering technical challenges. CS-400 Red Sky would best be compared probably with S-300PMU-2 Favorit or S-300VM (SA-23) Antey 2500, though it may be marginally superior in some respects, and the Soviets are especially proud of its radar array, which is supposed to be quite good against stealthy targets and particularly hard to foil. The main drawback is sometimes reluctance to use it, as demonstrated by the Drapoel and possibly yet by the Yugoslavs, because its missiles cost a great deal to replace. It is certainly better than Patriot was, but I'm not sure how much progress has been made in upgrading Patriot in RL or AMW. In AMW I wonder if Russia ever allowed the USQ to obtain S-300, which doubtless has helped any recent improvement in Patriot.

CS-500 is something that would totally violate real-life agreements against anti-ballistic missile systems due to its range and its capabilities against ballistic missiles. I'm sure they've both been specified in the past, but it looks like I'm going to have to spend an afternoon putting everything back together. Which will be a pain given that my Word documents are twenty thousand kilometres away.

So I'll ask TAF to kindly rethink his silliness.

Our tanks are better than Russia's serving tanks in RL, but they use systems and technologies pilfered from real tanks. Still, their physical armour is probably marginally inferior to Britain's latest composites. And most of our tanks are older models that are variously slightly inferior, roughly equal, and only marginally superior to Russia's.

You'll note that all I said was that CS-400 will go active if Belgrade is attacked. What? All that means is that you'll have to do better than mid-Cold War levels technologically and that it won't be easy to cripple the city.

Q, you shouldn't take offence at my mind-reader* comment. I wasn't saying it in a, "I'm not a f*ing mind reader, you ***!" sort of way, just indicating a matter of fact thing. If I -or the IC Yugoslav state- mistook the effectiveness of missile strikes it was because we were dealing with attacks by an obsolete system, which, as it turns out, wasn't the one you meant to use. I assume that'll stand as some sort of logistical error, or some officer who's about to lose his rank/head thinking it'd be good to get rid of old weapons so he can apply for shiny new ones.

*Hey, they can do that, now, apparently. Some sort of brain scan that can potentially discern from activity here and there what a person is going to do before they even know it. Minority Report stuff on the way. Sorry, I just read that in The Age while recovering from too much raki.

You called it; to me it seems mostly like a "LOL, silly (fill in unit), u get pwnaged!" Anytime BG clarifies, usually when a technology issue of any sort comes up, it just basically turns into a "it pwns all of u" and rarely does it seem any of our questions are put to rest; obviously, since we haven't had a technology debate happen once without it cropping up.

I just say trash it, its real job seems only to spark debate and 'A Modern World' can hardly be 'A Modern World for everyone but those who practice collectivism, then it’s A post-Modern World.'

Agreed. It makes more sense to make a list of real life equivalents. If no list exists, just trash items that aren't on it. I am just not convinced that technical discussions contribute to the RP rather than detract from it. We can reduce the above by making a list, although it probably won't ever be elminated.

I hope you guys realize just how ridiculous this is.

"Hmm...I think I'll develop a torpedo cruiser."
"Wait, nobody else has one of those! You can't have it!"

I do agree with you, I don't think that we can trash any fictional tech that was previously made just because it doesn't have an RL equivalent. But I think that any fictional tech from now on must have an RL equivalent. I feel that its the only way to avoid the kind of "No-matter-what-you-throw-at-me-my-tech-is-better" kind of mentality, or at least the appearance of it.

However, this is not the argument here, the dispute is over the worth and effectiveness of Russian military equipment.

Hail Caesar!

I have just remembered that this thread existed, and thought that I should maybe comment on the situation as I see it. Now, Fluer and I have spoken very, very briefly about this and though I completely see why he is wanting to both move this plotline forward and tie up loose ends (and it wouldn’t hurt if he tripled the size of a nation that he has interests in either) I think that I may have to offer here an alternative view.
The war in Austria was an unmitigated disaster for Austria. At one point, something like 12-5% of the population of the nation belonged to foreign militaries, with Ukrainians, Yugoslavians, Czechs and Romans running rampant throughout the area, not even t mention the masses of beleaguered defenders that were trying to save what quickly became a rubble heap.
The Czechs took quick advantage of the Yugoslavian invasion, along with the division of the Austrian forces into Hungary, which made them completely unable to defend themselves, and though there was some civilian resistance, it was simply unable to be organised in an efficient way, with the command structure all but liquidated, and the fighting men spread all over with no consistent orders.
Now, as for the assassination, I don’t remember, but did that occur in the RP, or is that an assumption based on wanting to move forward? Either way, I think it is a reasonable assumption that he either was assassinated, taken prisoner as a war criminal, went into exile among the Holy League, or simply committed suicide. No matter which way it would have/did went down, it is safe to assume that he is out of the way and a non-entity as far as politics goes. Though, unless it was RPed, I would favour him fleeing the country to go into exile over anything.
Now, the Yugoslavian ended up facing a Tsarist amphibious assault/air an naval bombardment in Bulgaria and a very determined and impressively executed attack by Rome, along with the entry of a massive Tsarist entry via Hungary that would bring them into conflict with their most hated enemies again. So, in a staggered withdraw, Yugoslavia withdrew, allowing Rome and the Tsarists to withdraw, though the Tsarists continued to occupy the Eastern half of Hungary actively and the rest of Hungary through puppet controls and intimidation, though they did set up an interim national Duma and started rebuilding/hearing the concerns of the people.
That was supposed to leave the fighting to Austria and the Czech Rep., but it looks as though Austria kind of disappeared. Now that being said, we need to decide where to go from here.
Now, I am vehemently opposed to the idea of the IES, as it just doesn’t seem to be good RP. This is no slight, but it assumes far, far too much. For instance, this could not occur without a complete withdrawal of the Tsarist from Hungary, which simply never occurred. This could also not occur without mass public support, especially given the idea of completely giving up recently acquired nationalism, and that being hard fought to homogenize with these other nations. Not that that could not happen, I just have a tough time seeing it occurring that wholeheartedly, and that fast in all three nations. I also wonder how welcoming the fanatical Austrians would be to the Czechs, beaten or not. They would be, I think very difficult to rule, and whether or not there would be massed insurgent rebellion, the people would, I think, be uncooperative and simply hold a grudge after watching their nation being destroyed by foreign armies, and have only one remain to take their frustrations out on.
Now, I think it would be unrealistic to say that Austria did not achieve their stated military objective in Austria, that of a “buffer zone” occupying everything north of the Danube. And, Fluer did state that he wanted to set up an “Austrian Republic” and try and have some kind of freedom enter into the system there. I think that this is completely in line with the RP. Now this does beg the question as to how the occupation was handled, did they use their time to put together a Czech backed, Czech military supported puppet regime, or did they really allow for a new democratic regime, with true and free elections? If they allowed only the puppet government as a tool of occupation, I think that they would be a very unpopular government that would be see for what it is, a tool of occupation and this highly educated and literate population would chafe under their rule, no matter how benevolent. Though, if their rule was truly benevolent, in time camaraderie could be reached.
And here we are with the final question, what about the southern portion of the nation? Was it overrun by the Czech Rep. And occupied at the same time as the north, or did the Austrians finally mount some kind of defence which eventually led to a cessation o hostilities and a split nation. I think I need to state the obvious, he Czech Rep. was winning. I think, however, that it was well within the ability of the Austrians to get it together and mount a defence worthy of the name, if not to win, to keep them from becoming a page in a history book somewhere. Let’s assume that Drecksler was somehow taken out of the process, he was obviously more harm to the process than good, and in theory, there could have been someone to take the cause of the defence, in fact, I would be more surprised if that were not the case. If the call went out to all of the fighting men scattered throughout the nation to make for the south and get re-organised, including calling back all of the troops from the failed Hungarian offensive, it is reasonable that they, plus the troops from the north that could have snuck south, could have formed the backbone of what could have been an impromptu popular defence force of some kind, much like how the Croatian police were used to do the same against Serbia. That, added to the fact that the Czechs would have had to deal with some kind of resistance to their rear, the threat of Tsarist intervention from the East, and these aforementioned fanaticals, could mean that they regrouped and countered, even regaining some ground and pushing the Czechs to the Danube, where I think it would be reasonable to assume that they fought each other for a while in a very expensive (in terms of losses in resources, equipment and men) standstill. I think, however, that the majority of losses would have been taken by the Austrians, but the Czechs could have just realised that to subdue a determined enemy like this would take years, and that was not something that they were willing to put their people through, being the good guys that they are. Of course, Roman and Tsarist military equipment would mysteriously appear in the hands of the Austrians while they fought, as well as humanitarian aid. I also think that it is safe to assume that Tsarist and Roman aid would be flowing into southern Austria in an effort to rebuild ad rearm it, and Yugoslavia has posted that they are rearming to the south.
That would leave us to the present situation as I see it. The big questions in regard to RP are:
1. Was Drecksler really assassinated?
2. What kind o government did the Czechs set up in the north?
I think that with those answers, we could move on.

In all, this was my favourite RP of the last two years, and definitely heralded the entry of a valuable RPer in the form of Fluer, so I think that he deserves to get this figured out.

Tsar Wingert the Great.

I'm certainly interested in how this is going to work out.

Yugoslavia's over-riding concern was that Austria not become a League puppet (or full fledged member, whatever), because we've already got Italy and Russia to worry about! Plus Lav will, using his almost dictatorial presidential powers, always push for any outcome that in some way hurts, humiliates, or just frustrates the League, Wingert especially. I think that it really is personal between the Yugoslav state and the Tsarists.

Probably it is fair to say that the Czech Republic would seriously struggle to occupy or control an unwilling Austria. It just isn't a large or wealthy enough power to be doing that, at least not without really straining itself and exposing itself in front of the League, not to mention the possibility of ticking off the Germans.

Yugoslavia might potentially be supportive of Czech efforts owing largely to Slavic solidarity and also to that on-going desire to spite the League. But that's largely up to the Czech administration and whether it wants to make a friend of Belgrade. A potential problem of course is League reaction to any perceived Yugoslavian involvement in Austria, especially since we're probably smuggling arms into Hungary on a daily basis.

We need Cassanos to get active, I think. Another Slavic state with not insignificant strength might be handy in some way. If friendly to the Czechs it could perhaps influence the way Germany views them.

(Oh, hey, Q, if you've got time, I was hoping to do something quick with that Last Ditch thread in which Belgrade sends a diplomat to Washington in hopes of doing some emergency PR work on Aidarov's behalf. I don't know whether it'll be a big thing, or just an out-right rejection/acceptance by the Quinntonians, so I suppose it's up to you.)

I'm certainly interested in how this is going to work out.

Yugoslavia's over-riding concern was that Austria not become a League puppet (or full fledged member, whatever), because we've already got Italy and Russia to worry about! Plus Lav will, using his almost dictatorial presidential powers, always push for any outcome that in some way hurts, humiliates, or just frustrates the League, Wingert especially. I think that it really is personal between the Yugoslav state and the Tsarists.

Probably it is fair to say that the Czech Republic would seriously struggle to occupy or control an unwilling Austria. It just isn't a large or wealthy enough power to be doing that, at least not without really straining itself and exposing itself in front of the League, not to mention the possibility of ticking off the Germans.

Yugoslavia might potentially be supportive of Czech efforts owing largely to Slavic solidarity and also to that on-going desire to spite the League. But that's largely up to the Czech administration and whether it wants to make a friend of Belgrade. A potential problem of course is League reaction to any perceived Yugoslavian involvement in Austria, especially since we're probably smuggling arms into Hungary on a daily basis.

We need Cassanos to get active, I think. Another Slavic state with not insignificant strength might be handy in some way. If friendly to the Czechs it could perhaps influence the way Germany views them.

(Oh, hey, Q, if you've got time, I was hoping to do something quick with that Last Ditch thread in which Belgrade sends a diplomat to Washington in hopes of doing some emergency PR work on Aidarov's behalf. I don't know whether it'll be a big thing, or just an out-right rejection/acceptance by the Quinntonians, so I suppose it's up to you.)



I will take a look at it, I certainly forgot it, but a Quinntonian response should be forthcoming.

If I wax polemic please overlook it. I get a bit excited when people try to say that my RPed stuff didn't happen.

I have just remembered that this thread existed, and thought that I should maybe comment on the situation as I see it. Now, Fluer and I have spoken very, very briefly about this and though I completely see why he is wanting to both move this plotline forward and tie up loose ends (and it wouldn’t hurt if he tripled the size of a nation that he has interests in either) I think that I may have to offer here an alternative view.

Agreed and appreciated.
The war in Austria was an unmitigated disaster for Austria. At one point, something like 12-5% of the population of the nation belonged to foreign militaries, with Ukrainians, Yugoslavians, Czechs and Romans running rampant throughout the area, not even t mention the masses of beleaguered defenders that were trying to save what quickly became a rubble heap.
The Czechs took quick advantage of the Yugoslavian invasion, along with the division of the Austrian forces into Hungary, which made them completely unable to defend themselves, and though there was some civilian resistance, it was simply unable to be organised in an efficient way, with the command structure all but liquidated, and the fighting men spread all over with no consistent orders.

There was civilian resistance, which was a major reason the government was set up in a small town in the north of Austria, where the government could be protected by large concentrations of troops. The small town (I'll look through it and edit it in) was heavily fortified and instigators arrested promptly. However, like in most if not all wars, most people had an ambivalent attitude, especially in relatively isolated small farming communities in the north. So most people did not attack the Czech troops. Moreover, the troops were friendly, did not cause much if any hardship and even provided a market for their agricultural commodities, which were not appropriated but bought at market or higher than market value. Nevertheless, there was a sizable section of the population which, while the government of Drekscler remained, caused the Czechs a considerable amount of trouble.

Now, as for the assassination, I don’t remember, but did that occur in the RP, or is that an assumption based on wanting to move forward?

It was agreed on by Moorington and was RPed in my post with Hannes

Either way, I think it is a reasonable assumption that he either was assassinated, taken prisoner as a war criminal, went into exile among the Holy League, or simply committed suicide. No matter which way it would have/did went down, it is safe to assume that he is out of the way and a non-entity as far as politics goes. Though, unless it was RPed, I would favour him fleeing the country to go into exile over anything.

See above comment. His assassination was established in a RP and I am vehemently opposed to changing it.

Now, the Yugoslavian ended up facing a Tsarist amphibious assault/air an naval bombardment in Bulgaria and a very determined and impressively executed attack by Rome, along with the entry of a massive Tsarist entry via Hungary that would bring them into conflict with their most hated enemies again. So, in a staggered withdraw, Yugoslavia withdrew, allowing Rome and the Tsarists to withdraw, though the Tsarists continued to occupy the Eastern half of Hungary actively and the rest of Hungary through puppet controls and intimidation, though they did set up an interim national Duma and started rebuilding/hearing the concerns of the people.

I don't accept your claim for Hungary. I will explain shortly.

That was supposed to leave the fighting to Austria and the Czech Rep., but it looks as though Austria kind of disappeared. Now that being said, we need to decide where to go from here.
Now, I am vehemently opposed to the idea of the IES, as it just doesn’t seem to be good RP. This is no slight, but it assumes far, far too much. For instance, this could not occur without a complete withdrawal of the Tsarist from Hungary, which simply never occurred. [quote]

I remember you stating you would withdraw if Yugoslavia withdrew.

[quote] This could also not occur without mass public support, especially given the idea of completely giving up recently acquired nationalism, and that being hard fought to homogenize with these other nations. Not that that could not happen, I just have a tough time seeing it occurring that wholeheartedly, and that fast in all three nations.

So the very nationalistic Hungarians welcome their Tsarist overlords?

I also wonder how welcoming the fanatical Austrians would be to the Czechs, beaten or not. They would be, I think very difficult to rule, and whether or not there would be massed insurgent rebellion, the people would, I think, be uncooperative and simply hold a grudge after watching their nation being destroyed by foreign armies, and have only one remain to take their frustrations out on.

I would certainly agreed that they would harbor a grudge towards the Russian overlord who had very recently controlled them and controlled them in a very tight fist under communists. Afterall, did not the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 have widespread grassroots appeal and lead to the overthrow of the communist government in Hungary? They would have been successful too had not Communist Russia intervened and crushed the hope and dreams of average Hungarians, who only wanted to be free of the communist and Soviet blight.

But while widespread resistance to Russia is a given, harboring a grudge to the Czechs is something much less certain.

Now, I think it would be unrealistic to say that Austria did not achieve their stated military objective in Austria, that of a “buffer zone” occupying everything north of the Danube. And, Fluer did state that he wanted to set up an “Austrian Republic” and try and have some kind of freedom enter into the system there. I think that this is completely in line with the RP. Now this does beg the question as to how the occupation was handled, did they use their time to put together a Czech backed, Czech military supported puppet regime, or did they really allow for a new democratic regime, with true and free elections? If they allowed only the puppet government as a tool of occupation, I think that they would be a very unpopular government that would be see for what it is, a tool of occupation and this highly educated and literate population would chafe under their rule, no matter how benevolent. Though, if their rule was truly benevolent, in time camaraderie could be reached.

And here we are with the final question, what about the southern portion of the nation? Was it overrun by the Czech Rep. And occupied at the same time as the north, or did the Austrians finally mount some kind of defence which eventually led to a cessation o hostilities and a split nation. I think I need to state the obvious, he Czech Rep. was winning. I think, however, that it was well within the ability of the Austrians to get it together and mount a defence worthy of the name, if not to win, to keep them from becoming a page in a history book somewhere. Let’s assume that Drecksler was somehow taken out of the process, he was obviously more harm to the process than good, and in theory, there could have been someone to take the cause of the defence, in fact, I would be more surprised if that were not the case. If the call went out to all of the fighting men scattered throughout the nation to make for the south and get re-organised, including calling back all of the troops from the failed Hungarian offensive, it is reasonable that they, plus the troops from the north that could have snuck south, could have formed the backbone of what could have been an impromptu popular defence force of some kind, much like how the Croatian police were used to do the same against Serbia. That, added to the fact that the Czechs would have had to deal with some kind of resistance to their rear, the threat of Tsarist intervention from the East, and these aforementioned fanaticals, could mean that they regrouped and countered, even regaining some ground and pushing the Czechs to the Danube, where I think it would be reasonable to assume that they fought each other for a while in a very expensive (in terms of losses in resources, equipment and men) standstill. I think, however, that the majority of losses would have been taken by the Austrians, but the Czechs could have just realised that to subdue a determined enemy like this would take years, and that was not something that they were willing to put their people through, being the good guys that they are. Of course, Roman and Tsarist military equipment would mysteriously appear in the hands of the Austrians while they fought, as well as humanitarian aid. I also think that it is safe to assume that Tsarist and Roman aid would be flowing into southern Austria in an effort to rebuild ad rearm it, and Yugoslavia has posted that they are rearming to the south.

Agreed, the Czech's were winning. I do not think that the Austrian population would chaff under Czech rule. Drekscler was an enthusiastic political figure akin to Hitler. He overthrew the legitimate rule of Maxen and made many many people dream in his vision and compelled them to follow his dream through force of personality alone. His throne top speeches were awe inspiring and lead many Austrians to believe in him and even offer to give their lives to serve his cause.

However, once the ecstatic prophet was gone what happened? Well, as in post war Germany, people were deeply shaken to their core. The leader who had motivated them and offered a new vision of Glory to their country had failed. Everything caught up in the man, their dreams and hopes, everything was destroyed. His failure meant that everything they had held dear was questioned. No longer was his fanatical message trusted nor did they no longer have the same fanatical trust in their leader because he was quite obviously dead. In this vacuum people turn to God, as in the case of AMW Germany, and also to Hannes message of peaceful co-existence.

After the death of the Drekscler, control was largely taken over by Trugen, leader of the military. The Austrian military was not totally in shambles as Quinn described it. It was certainly fell apart and crumbled away in the North but contrary to Quinn's analysis that does not mean it totally disintegrated like a martyr dropped in a pit of acid. It still had strength and a great deal of virility. Trugen, with control of his army, negotiated, and like Maxen, was turned by Klaus with the offer of control of the entire army of the new IES. An Austrian, not a Czech, was given control over the combined forces. This is far better than he could have hoped for in post Austria and he was heavily invested in ensuring the IES was proclaimed. Any Tsarist attempt to undermine his authority would be promptly crushed by him. With Trugen's help, all territory controlled by the Austrian military was peacefully seceded and the Independent European States (IES) was formed. This territory probably included some of Hungary.

Klaus after ensuring his territory could never again be attacked by a resurgent Austria and was now better protected from Russia, promptly resigned and left politics. In his wake, Hannes, a kindly old man type and Austrian, participated and eventually won in the free and fair elections. People were tired of war and destructive patriotism and elected much more down to earth leader who was willing to compromise, both between Czechs, Austrians, and Hungarians but also with the Holy League.

Hungary is an interesting matter. I don't think it was ever established the extent of the Tsarist influence, nor whether the Austrian army actually left Hungary. As you stated, Tsarist forces pulled back across the river. This leaves Trugen and his army in an excellent position to consolidate their hold and give it to the Czech Republic.

That would leave us to the present situation as I see it. The big questions in regard to RP are:
1. Was Drecksler really assassinated?
2. What kind o government did the Czechs set up in the north?
I think that with those answers, we could move on.

In all, this was my favourite RP of the last two years, and definitely heralded the entry of a valuable RPer in the form of Fluer, so I think that he deserves to get this figured out.

Tsar Wingert the Great.

Thanks for the compliment :) and I hope I answered your questions.

Relations with Yugoslavia in the future is problematic. Czechs are grateful for their help in the combat yet the fact they stole and plundered from their strongest Quinntopian allies is a negative. To the Austrians, it is also mixed as they were involved in ousting a regime which is increasingly being looked back upon in unfavorable terms while they also had destroyed much of their countryside in previous wars. To the Hungarians, Yugoslavia is mostly looked on in favorable terms.

These complex attitudes towards Yugoslavia going toward with the IES, well complicate the relationship between Yugoslavia and the IES. However, Hannes would look favorably on doing everything possible to improving the relationship between Yugoslavia and the USQ. A better relationship with the USQ would greatly improve the relationship with the IES as many Czechs, and even many Austrians, place a high value on the relationship between them and Quinntopia. If such a thing happened, a mutual defense (not aggression) pact could be in the works against the Russians.

As for Cassanos, yeah he is busy but hopefully he gets involved soon. He has to finalize some defense stuff with Quinntopia and finish his factbook. Once finals are over things should be a good to go. The relationship between Germany and the Czech Republic is already friendly. They are generally tied together by their friendship with the USQ.

Can you start RPing the relationship between Russia and the IES Quinntopia? It would be interesting to see how Russia would perceive the new state on their borders.

Also, would it make it more palatable if I RP the actions of Maxen and Trugen in rallying the Austrian people? They are quite influential and it should put some of your concerns to rest. Also, I could RP a bit about Hungary and their former government coming in and establishing themselves and helping the transition to statehood under IES?

Frankly Quinntopia, I think that everything I have said is reasonable. Furthermore, Russia has enough territory already and what's another 5 million of Hungarian people to the large empire of Russia? Just give it up. I can be fairly long winded and I would hate to have to continue to talk about this instead of spending valuable time RPing.