NationStates Jolt Archive

Today, the Mirkanan people held their first referendum in history. The main issue? The torture bill, which, if passed, would permit the usage of torture in interrogations (though not in legal proceedings).

The referendum passed by a margin of 83%, and was shortly thereafter signed into law by Commander In Chief Vasily Reddox.

This marks the first case where the people of a nation voted overwhelmingly to permit torture that anyone in Mirkana can think of.

Other referendums included:
Free Speech Bill (passed): This bill expands rights to freedom of speech, putting Mirkanans on a similar level to other democracies.
Nudity Bill (defeated): This bill would permit public nudity.
Name Change Bill (passed): This bill will change Mirkana's full name from the "Armed Republic of Mirkana" to the "Dark Republic of Mirkana".

OOC: What, nobody's interested that a democracy legalized torture? Or started calling itself, "The Dark Republic"?

[OOC: You'll have to do better then that to attract attention, and the thread title doesn't really catch the eye. >.>]

OOC: Watch out for 'British Londinium' or as s/he calls her/him-self, Eurasia. S/he has been very war mongerous lately.

OOC: Watch out for 'British Londinium' or as s/he calls her/him-self, Eurasia. S/he has been very war mongerous lately.

OOC:

Hey, everybody goes through a phase like that once in a while. It builds character, I say.

IC:

Regent Lockeheart acknowledges, on this nation's behalf, a nation's right to use any reasonable means to defend itself, but asks that Mirkana please take great care not to abuse this new bill.

~ Diplomatic Representative, Provisional State of Romandeos.

~ Romandeos.

The Democratic Constitutional Monarchy of the Secular Empire of Maraque is completely astounded that a government would so blatantly rig results to fit their agenda.

It is equally insane that millions aren't in the streets protesting such violation of democracy and all it stands for.

Ministeress of State, Loren Hiles

Official Statement:

The election results were not rigged, contrary to what some may say. Indeed, General Reddox was somewhat surprised that the measure passed with such a majority.

To: Mirkana
From: Johnathon Steeves, Premier of the People's Council, Commander-in-Chief of the Liberation Forces of the People's Republic of Iragia
Subject: Defending the state
Message:
I applaud you and your nation on taking the steps needed to ensure the defence of the state and its people. Though we ourselves do not use 'torture' per se, we do employ physical coercion in circumstances that warrant it, we nontheless recognize that in defence of the state, there are no means that do not justify the end.

G E N E F O R G E

NO LIABILITY COMPANY


Greetings. Since we see you are interested in application of torture, our company stands ready to assist you on the way from rough barbaric methods to elaborate and artistic methods.

Our main business is plant, animal and human genetic modification, artificial body production and advanced medical services. However, as a part of our contract with the Symmetriad Corporation, we were handling special interrogation procedures.

Rest assured that we are not a rebirth of medieval inquisitions dealing with simple humans. Many of our clients were not just religious fanatics, but special persons psychically encoded with elaborate barriers. What we do can crack even the sturdiest of persons, bypassing barriers and dissolving the mind slowly and carefully, so that psychic traps can't be activated. We can modify the human genes on the run, changing predesignated areas of brain, but our techniques range from the simplest to hardest.

In particular, Geneforge NLC medical expertise allowed the Symmetriad to avoid agent loss in capturing criminals fully intact, instead working fine with limbless bodies, which are inserted into life support modules. Heavy sensory deprivation, slowly destroying the personality, makes the criminals ready to spill their guts just for euthanasia in a week, and tell everything after two weeks of confinement just for the sake of telling it. Sensory deprivation and brain reforming are only the simplest of our procedures. If we choose to elaborate, your torture capabilities will exceed all expectations.

We are experts in everything we do, and you can become too, with our collaboration. There is more to torture than people expect. We know it all. Whatever you need, the results will be the best.


Looking forward to doing business with you,
Jeff,
Geneforge NLC.

DEMOCRATIC SOVIET REPUBLIC OF KAHANISTAN
Ministry of Foreign Affairs

The torture referendum is most concerning to liberal democracies such as Kahanistan. While torture is among the most effective means of eliciting answers, it is quite poor at discerning truth from lies or even if the victim knows the information their torturers want.

Further, use of torture is a hallmark of repressive regimes. It is one of the things that differentiate "us" from "them," "them" being illiberal or despotic regimes with poor or nonexistent civil rights.

We strongly urge that this torture authorization be repealed before someone is subjected to it.

Signed,
Margaret Delray,
Minister of Foreign Affairs

We know that torture is sometimes ineffective - that was one of the main arguments against the bill. General Reddox has ordered the writing of guidelines as to how to use information obtained via torture.

G E N E F O R G E

NO LIABILITY COMPANY


We are informed of your worries. But don't confuse the ineffective, primitive and barbaric medieval physical torture with modern technologies based on deep understanding of human mind. With help of our corporation, torture will become clean, reliable and efficient.

Please respond whether you are interested in working with us, to get the most out of this unquestionable political achievement.


Looking forward to doing business with you,
Jeff,
Geneforge NLC.

"Your nation, your laws - your choice."


Nguza Karl-i-Bond
Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation
http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/images/Coat_of_arms_of_Zaire.PNG

a nation has the right to defend itself....

We are shocked and appalled that so many people would support such a bill, as torture is something that is not usually found in a democratic country. In fact, we find it so unlikely that use of torture would have so much popular support, that we have reason to believe you have rigged the vote.

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8282/swilatia7xv7.gif

So, let's get this straight. You said a margin of 82%. I believe that 91-9=82, so it was 92% for - 9% against. (May be off if there was an abstain section)

Please tell me how you got so many votes for this? Do they really believe that torture would solve all there problems, and that they won't be affected by it?

Jerry Sophrone
Informal Letter
Dictator of Havvy

[OOC, 2 Havvy:
Do you know that torture can solve this problem too? I mean, the problem of getting enough votes. ]

Having no ready access to the bill itself or indeed any precise details on is classed as "torture" under the bill the Crookfur govenrment finds itself unable to make any direct statements regarding the bill or how the voting on the amtter preceded. the Crookfur govenment does of course abhor the inflcition of unessicary pain and suffering on any individual and as a general stance is agaisnt the use of "torture" but in this case we simply cannot belive that a govenrment would word a bill in such a way that at least some form of defiantion of the term or any legalistic boundaries or giudelines as to what is and isn't covered by the bill.

-Offical press release from the Crookfur Foreign Office.

The bill defines torture as now legalized as 'the infliction of physical or psychological suffering to obtain information'.

OOC: Your nations may not believe this, but there was no corruption. 82% of Mirkanans voted for the bill. Welcome to the Dark Republic.