NationStates Jolt Archive

RULES FOR THE WORLD WAR EARTH RP FOR NATIONSTATES



First of all, this RP begins in the year 1897, and as such, technology is the same as it would be in that time era. Soldiers use almost exclusively bolt action rifles, and machine guns are just being invented. Tanks won't be created for another fifteen or so years, nor their necessity known until the enevitable Great War breaks, out so do not begin to produce them as soon as the RP begins. This game may go on as long as you all want it to. It could go onto the Modern Era eventually even! It just depends on how rapidly the nations advance, and what happens. The choice is the players really.

I believe that one real life week should be a year, possibly longer however during war time. This allows the maximum amount of possible doings of each player per game year, but also time moves by much quicker this way that if we let time basically flow whenever we feel like it. Religiously, when Sunday of each week roles around, I shall post in the overall Master IC thread that the New Year has occured, I'll make a brief overview of the previous years happenings, and then the New Year shall begin.

Warfare should be done freeform, with my moderation. I mean that in the sense of however the player likes to RP, be it character, or merely statistical (I prefer Character myself), they may. However, if I feel that in battle a player is God modding, I will demand that the player redo his move. If I appear to Godmod, since I am playing as well, then please tell me and I'll fix this. I'll appoint a second Moderator to check and balance this, so I keep myself honest, and someone can share a second opinion on my decisions. The ultimate decision rests with the Moderators, and you all must accept our ruling else be banned from the RP.

Territory gained will be shown on another map which I have, and it should make the warfare which will inevitably occur much more exciting.



Economics will be difficult. Anyone with an opinion please post it here, for I have none to be perfectly honest.

Technology. Another difficult area, but I think I have an idea. At the end of each year, the player may invest into a new tech. I'll develop a tech tree from which to choose from, and three may be chosen per year. I think this may make things interesting.


Real life to RP translation: Up to this point, 1897, everthing historical has occured as it really did. From now on, however, it may be totally different (within reason, of course). Italy for example, might honor the agreement with the Central Powers and fight with them, or the Entente between Russia, England, and France may never even occur!



Those are the rules I can think of, but remember as I said before, this RP is for all of us to enjoy and so these rules may be debated here, changed, new things added or removed. Whatever everyone decides on is how it'll go.

Everybody should have thier own maps with their current claims on them, so if something gets confused in the thread they have their own set of territory maps so they can keep track of land gained and lost.

Everybody should have thier own maps with their current claims on them, so if something gets confused in the thread they have their own set of territory maps so they can keep track of land gained and lost.

Good idea.

Good idea.

Thanks; as for economics. Have you ever played civilization 3 or 4, if you have, you could model diplomacy and trade after it. It would minimize the complications. Though someone would have to keep track of all the trade agreements, like when they formed and when they were canceled, who were they between, and what were they trading.

Thanks; as for economics. Have you ever played civilization 3 or 4, if you have, you could model diplomacy and trade after it. It would minimize the complications. Though someone would have to keep track of all the trade agreements, like when they formed and when they were canceled, who were they between, and what were they trading.

I know that, but that wasn't quite what I meant.

I was more referring to how do we measure wealth? How much money does each nation have, etc. We can't use NS stats, since it would be horribly unrealistic, but I don't know if I can find GDPs for nations back then....And I don't want to just guess..

You could ask Galveston Bay to teach us the E20 System. E20 has been going on for quite awhile and it's system is quite good from what I've seen.

I know that, but that wasn't quite what I meant.

I was more referring to how do we measure wealth? How much money does each nation have, etc. We can't use NS stats, since it would be horribly unrealistic, but I don't know if I can find GDPs for nations back then....And I don't want to just guess..

Oh, thats what you meant. So what your having trouble with is the worth of each nations currency, something like the exchange rate, and how much money each nation has. I could try to help you with that; if I find anything out I wll post it.

Should we add up the GDP for each country we claim or just choose the largest in our area and work with that?

Oh, thats what you meant. So what your having trouble with is the worth of each nations currency, something like the exchange rate, and how much money each nation has. I could try to help you with that; if I find anything out I wll post it.

Should we add up the GDP for each country we claim or just choose the largest in our area and work with that?

The total GDP for each territory should go into your overall treasury.

The total GDP for each territory should go into your overall treasury.

Okay. That gives me more to work with.

How does one figure out the year's GDP as time progresses in the thread? I was an Air Force mechanic and economics might as well be sandskrit as far as I'm concerned.

Do you think that there should be a sort of international law making body for this earth. I know things like the UN didn't exsist in 1897, but since this is a sort of alternate history...

Oh, by the way, does the conduct of how war is fought in the "world WAr Earth" follow the codes of the Geneava convention.

I'm not going to participate, but I see what kind of problems you have, and I just suggest that you can try doing basic commodity trades and figure out the economic wealth of nations based on what they own and trade, instead of the looking for historical GDP and GNP rates. It'll be hard to decide at the start, with currency exchange and all, but it'll be more accurate for your Earth in the long run.

[using a bulk reserve rate of gold or silver can work too... so look for that...]

Do you think that there should be a sort of international law making body for this earth. I know things like the UN didn't exsist in 1897, but since this is a sort of alternate history...

Oh, by the way, does the conduct of how war is fought in the "world WAr Earth" follow the codes of the Geneava convention.

Yes, the Geneva Convention of 1863. Keep in mind though, that this is different than its 1940s and '70s counter parts.

Yes, the Geneva Convention of 1863. Keep in mind though, that this is different than its 1940s and '70s counter parts.

Yes, okay, just making sure, the 1863 Convention gives me more flexability in the way I fight my wars. Thanks.

Does this thread have room for domestic wars as well, I think it would be intesting to read about a nation declaring war, losing and then being torn apart in a civil, and then a stable nation rolls in a cleans up the mess.

Maybe this will just make it more complicated; I don't know.

Alright! I struck the motherload!


I can only find the World War Two GDP for most nations, so I'll cut them in half, and give these nations the following GDPs (In Billions):


USA 100
UK 142
France 93
Italy 70.5
Russia 179.5
Germany 175.5
Austria 200
Japan 84.5

Alright! I struck the motherload!


I can only find the World War Two GDP for most nations, so I'll cut them in half, and give these nations the following GDPs (In Billions):


USA 100
UK 142
France 93
Italy 70.5
Russia 179.5
Germany 175.5
Austria 200
Japan 84.5

Good, could you post a link I will help you compile the data,

If you want to know how the E20 system works, I somewhat know:

E20 works on a point system based on infrastructure and technology avaliable at the time to the specific country. Depending on certain things (such as work programs, foreign investments, loans, power, infrastructure etc.) the specified nation gets a certain number of points. From there, they spend these points on various things (infrastructure upgrades, technology, military investments, foreign aid, etc.).
It's up to the player to crunch the numbers, as Galveston has made the template on which the point system is laid out.

If you want to know how the E20 system works, I somewhat know:

E20 works on a point system based on infrastructure and technology avaliable at the time to the specific country. Depending on certain things (such as work programs, foreign investments, loans, power, infrastructure etc.) the specified nation gets a certain number of points. From there, they spend these points on various things (infrastructure upgrades, technology, military investments, foreign aid, etc.).
It's up to the player to crunch the numbers, as Galveston has made the template on which the point system is laid out.

Anyway I could get my hands on this template?

Good, could you post a link I will help you compile the data,

That was all that was on that webpage....I'll try and find something for the others who have joined now.

Anyway I could get my hands on this template?

Well, you could either get one of the E20 mods to give the same to you, but the easier way would just be to make a modified version of it for WWE.
I'll go to the E20main thread and look at it a bit.

Well, you could either get one of the E20 mods to give the same to you, but the easier way would just be to make a modified version of it for WWE.
I'll go to the E20main thread and look at it a bit.

I was hoping to merely see what E20 uses, and modify it for this Earth.

I can go find the thread-it's all there.

That was all that was on that webpage....I'll try and find something for the others who have joined now.

I'll look around and if I find something I will link it.

These are all modern GDP estiments but you could do some creative dividing to get a picture of what it was in the late 19th century and early 20th.

http://www.worldfactsandfigures.com/gdp_country_desc.php

These are all modern GDP estiments but you could do some creative dividing to get a picture of what it was in the late 19th century and early 20th.

http://www.worldfactsandfigures.com/gdp_country_desc.php

I found Brazil's 1897 GDP and Peru's-since Peru's population is really close to Uruguay's in 1897 (found both those too), I'll probaly just use the Peru one.

Disclaimer: Galveston, please don't sue me :P

Anyway:

Here's the original economic thread I could find for E20:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11605323#post11605323

and the new one (updated for them for the late 1920s)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=515828

Disclaimer: Galveston, please don't sue me :P

Anyway:

Here's the original economic thread I could find for E20:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11605323#post11605323

and the new one (updated for them for the late 1920s)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=515828

Thanks mate, I appreciate it. I sent GB a TG asking his permission to use this. It is his creation after all, so I figure I better ask him right?

Anyway, I'll develop a version of this for 1897, since I doubt he'll refuse it, at least I don't see why he would....anyway though, we just won't use it until he gives us permission.

Sounds good. It's thorough, so if he gives permission, it'll be a good system as long as people are willing to put in a little time.

Does this thread have room for domestic wars as well, I think it would be intesting to read about a nation declaring war, losing and then being torn apart in a civil, and then a stable nation rolls in a cleans up the mess.

Maybe this will just make it more complicated; I don't know.

Yeah, I was planning on adding the possibility of Civil Wars into it. Also, when a nation is conquered, the conqueree may wage an insurgency against its conqueror. However if a Civil War is going to break out, ask someone else to RP the opposing forces, since a Civil War RPed by one person is kinda lame.

Sounds good. It's thorough, so if he gives permission, it'll be a good system as long as people are willing to put in a little time.

It appears as though people arent. So, back to the drawing board I suppose, unless Aeson's request is overturned by popular request.



Until then, I go back to considerations.....

Yeah, I was planning on adding the possibility of Civil Wars into it. Also, when a nation is conquered, the conqueree may wage an insurgency against its conqueror. However if a Civil War is going to break out, ask someone else to RP the opposing forces, since a Civil War RPed by one person is kinda lame.

I don't know. I was planning to have a good ole' communist revolution, and play both sides, mostly because I have a good idea how things are going to go. But then, that's probably going to be quick and brutal, both the couple initial unsuccessful ones and the eventual victory.

I don't know. I was planning to have a good ole' communist revolution, and play both sides, mostly because I have a good idea how things are going to go. But then, that's probably going to be quick and brutal, both the couple initial unsuccessful ones and the eventual victory.

Indeed, but remember the catalyst for the Revolution wasn't Lenin returning to Russia in 1916 ;)


It was the fact that Russia was loosing the war. If, when war does break out, Russia ends up seriously loosing (And I mean pushed back to bloody Vladimir and Suezdal), then the Bolsheviks will have their go.

Also, when a nation is conquered, the conqueree may wage an insurgency against its conqueror.

Cool. Being Poland in 1897 would be boring if I couldn't revolt against Russia...

Losing has 1 'o' in it, btw...

Indeed, but remember the catalyst for the Revolution wasn't Lenin returning to Russia in 1916 ;)


It was the fact that Russia was loosing the war. If, when war does break out, Russia ends up seriously loosing (And I mean pushed back to bloody Vladimir and Suezdal), then the Bolsheviks will have their go.

Ah, but things are going to be a little different in the long run here. Still working out the fine details, so I won't go into specifics, but the Immortals will play an important role here.

Cool. Being Poland in 1897 would be boring if I couldn't revolt against Russia...

Losing has 1 'o' in it, btw...

Have I conquered you already then?

Ah, but things are going to be a little different in the long run here. Still working out the fine details, so I won't go into specifics, but the Immortals will play an important role here.

I am looking forward to this. :)

Have I conquered you already then?

Technically he's sovereign, but then when War breaks out, he'll likely be the first place either of us goes after. THough I suspect that a European war isn't going to happen initially, since it rarely does in RPs like this, I do think that there will be a colonial rampage about to happen over land untaken (*cough* Africa! *Cough*)

Have I conquered you already then?

Yeah. In 1815. (In RL, this lasted until WWI)

Yeah. In 1815. (In RL, this lasted until WWI)


Read my post above mate


Unless you want to be a part of Russia, then I can arrange that so you may revolt. I really don't care either way ;)

Read my post above mate


Unless you want to be a part of Russia, then I can arrange that so you may revolt. I really don't care either way ;)

I'll revolt against Russia. They deserve it. :D

*scratches self, blinks blinks*

*scratches self, blinks blinks*

*pokes with a stick*

*pokes with a stick*

*Kicks with boot*

EDIT: *Boot has steel toe*

*Kicks with boot*

EDIT: *Boot has steel toe*

*is wearing explosive reactive armor*

*is wearing explosive reactive armor*

*Realises this, but knows its too late to stop boot, becomes very sad*

:(

*pokes with a stick*

*is poked. nibbles on the stick*

All I know is.. we shouldn't get TOO complicated with all this. I mean, once we have our budgets and stuff, we just need to know how much things cost. Back in WWII, F4F Wildcat cost like 30,000 bucks. A battleship was a few million, I believe. A destroyer, 300,000 bucks.

Actually, destroyers were even cheaper, probably.. according to an article I found...

Sources are as shown...
Warship construction costs from "Jane's Fighting Ships," 1914 edition
Queen Elizabeth [then uncompleted] estimated at £2.5m but see below for a detailed breakdown
King George V - £1,965,000 or about £85 per ton
Colossus - £1,730,000 or £87 per ton
Neptune - cost to build £86.8 per ton, machinery only £258,000
Dreadnought - £1,797,497
Lion Class - average per ship £2m
Indefatigable - £1,547,426 or about £82.53 per ton
Invincible - £1,752,000 or about £101.6 per ton
Lord Nelson [est] - £1.5m
King Edward Class - £1.5m
Swiftsure and Triumph purchased from Chile for £949,900 but this price could be distorted due to the circumstances of the sale.
Queen and Prince of Wales - 'just over £1m' [see Swiftsure!]


Armoured cruisers:
Warrior - £1,180,000
Duke of Edinburgh - £1,150,000
Hampshire - £850,000
Kent - £775,000
Good Hope - 'just over £1million'
note: the Kent class was intended to be an 'economy' cruiser for service on distant stations and this is reflected in the price here.

Light cruisers - very few costings in Jane's.
Boadicea - £330,000
Adventure - £275,000
Forward - £289,000
Pathfinder - £273,000
Topaze - £240,000

German: [source Jane's 1914 - presumably calculated in sterling at the prevailing exchange rate]
Kaiser - £2.4m
Westfalen - £1,838,000
Moltke and Goeben - £2.2m
Von Der Tann - £1,833,000
Deutschland - £1.2m
Braunschweig - £1,160,000
Blucher - £1,349,000
Kolberg - £381,480
Stuttgart + Konigsberg - £319,000

Other sources: "The Grand Fleet", by D.K. Brown, Mr Brown lists a variety of costs for British warships.
King George V - £1,950,000
Chatham class cruiser - £350,000
Acheron class destroyer - £88,000
D Class sub - £89,000
Flower Class minesweeper - £60,000

D.K. Brown also lists the costs of some destroyers:
Beagle - £110,000
Acorn - £94,000
Acheron - £88,000
Acasta - £100,000
Laforey - £98,000
M class - £100,000

*Realises this, but knows its too late to stop boot, becomes very sad*

:(

*eats what's left of foot*

Mmm... cooked food...

You could ask Galveston Bay to teach us the E20 System. E20 has been going on for quite awhile and it's system is quite good from what I've seen.


*E20 Security ninjas surround the area*

Or you could just join E20. The most complicated bit of E20 is the economics, so if your gonna rip that (not that we would let you, can't let II be flooded by copycats) you might as well join the real deal.

*E20 Security ninjas surround the area*

Or you could just join E20. The most complicated bit of E20 is the economics, so if your gonna rip that (not that we would let you, can't let II be flooded by copycats) you might as well join the real deal.

First of all, we're not doing that anymore. Second of all: WE HAVE GALVESTONS EXPRESS PERMISSION TO USE HIS ECONOMICS MODEL!


Therefore, you loose. Please leave.

First of all, we're not doing that anymore. Second of all: WE HAVE GALVESTONS EXPRESS PERMISSION TO USE HIS ECONOMICS MODEL!


Therefore, you loose. Please leave.


Since you asked so nicely....

Though I do apologise, as you can obviously see from the quote I hadn't read the other three pages before posting, my fault.

First of all, we're not doing that anymore. Second of all: WE HAVE GALVESTONS EXPRESS PERMISSION TO USE HIS ECONOMICS MODEL!


Therefore, you loose. Please leave.
...are you misspelling 'lose' on purpose? :confused:

...are you misspelling 'lose' on purpose? :confused:

He's trying to use mind rays to make the guy's shoes fall off.

...are you misspelling 'lose' on purpose? :confused:

.....oh. Damn, I made myself look dumb didn't I?



:(

.....oh. Damn, I made myself look dumb didn't I?



:(

lol. :D

*Wonders about the boot...

*Wonders about the boot...

*Looks at boot* *Looks at AB thinking about and glancing at boot*


Yeah, its pretty well destroyed. :(

Dang, and I'm hungry...

WJ, I've been thinking about NP nations. What's the deal with them?

Take Austria-Hungary. I don't know if it's taken or not, but let's say it's not. If nobody joins and claims it, it continues to go through history as it really did, right? Say WWI comes around, and it's still a non-played territory. Okay, well, you, being Germany, would have an alliance with them, unless you or someone else invaded them, and they'd join the war as they did in history, right? After that it could change because the Allies could take it over or something else. Otherwise, without any outside interference, NPC countries follow history as it was supposed to happen, right?

And as for invading NPC countries. If I was to invade say, Congo, I would obviously acknowledge that it is war and I would have to lose battles and men and face troubles too, and I would. But if I won out, since there's no one controlling it to surrender, I could kill off the military and run around (unless someone else stepped in) and take it over, because I wouldn't need to draw up a treaty if I didn't want to, unless another nation pressured me to, and I could say I did. Basically though, if I go into an NPC country, I could take it over, right?

EDIT: Oh, and someone can't start playing as the leader of an NPC country, right? Because they could make the country ally them or start wars and they could ruin that country before someone can come and claim it.