NationStates Jolt Archive

Programme

As of the current competitions with Automagfreek's Sentinels, Leocardia would like to introduce a similiar infantry force like theirs. By watching the unstoppable power done by Automagfreek's forces, Leocardia is amazed of the fighting power done to the enemy. With careful observations by Leocardian military researchers, tatics and formatons by the Sentinels were observed. With the information of observed data was published classified for the Leocardian military for use, Leocardia has launched its $400 trillion on a research for the making of a new infantry force just like Automagfreek's.

Years went by, money and debt increased for the programme. It seemed like it was impossible for Leocardia to make it possible, but they've done it. With useful economic and military aid from allies. Leocardia was able to present the new Guardian I. $400 trillion dollars was enough to provide the new force with its sufficient armor and weapon. The new force is now under a modernization for all 10,020,000 soldiers in Leocardia's army. The soldiers are also genetically mutated to be the best warriors in Leocardian history.

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Equipment
Standard Issue Rifle: LMT-21A1
A powerful rifle, upgraded version of AK-101 with more added benefits. Considerably the most reliable rifle ever used by Leocardian soldiers, tested and approved. It's 7.663 standard AK caliber is used more effectively by the new upgrade, as well as accuracy and precision.

Standard Secondary: Double Pistol L-MGM .221
One of the most technologically advanced pistol used by Leocardian soldiers. With its Leocardian modifications, the pistols have an upgraded firing system, which promotes performance and accuracy.

Standard Armor: Kelvar-Titanium Transfusion
With light titanium and heavy kelvar, Leocardia has found its way by fusing both substances together promoting a more protective armor from bullets. The newly transfused armor is more lighter comparably with reguar kelvar and titanium combined, and performs better.

Updates still being classified...

You are stepping into my field when you decide to genetically clone your soldiers. Have you procured the facilities inwhich to clone these soldiers. If so, what method are you using. How has you population delt with the increase in the need for more resources in order to maintain this force, which have I am sure, put a strain on them. And Have you procured the facilities in which to produce the armor and weapons. Metal Fusing is a power hungery process and would call for a huge increase of your internal power. Plus have you the money to maintian classified information from those who know it. The soldier you have been prefecting is good but the strain on your nation is great. I wonder how long you can last with that kind of economic hole?

(OOC: Um. You don't have $400 trillion dollars.)

(OOC: Um. You don't have $400 trillion dollars.)

(OOC: It's probably $400 trillion dollars over a period of several years, during which they researched bioengineering, materials science, weapons construction, etc., etc. Super soldiers don't just come out in one year, even in NS. Kraven Sardaukar, for example, take years to create, IIRC.)

well that doesn't answer my question about his production, housing, and cloning facilities....

well that doesn't answer my question about his production, housing, and cloning facilities....

OOC: Sure it doesn't. But do you see Automagfreek telling that information also?

Yea. AMF has at one time taking over half the world... he has the land and money for such operations.

Yea. AMF has at one time taking over half the world... he has the land and money for such operations.

And what makes you think I haven't either?

the fact that you stated the money used came from different nations.

With useful economic and military aid from allies

If not for these allies, I dont believe your nation could have absorbed that kind of shock. Plus.... The land needed. I haven't seen much in the way of you taking any land or buying any. Sure you could use what land you have but, you would still need a lot. I have garrison, I used them to produce my soldiers and military equipment. And I still dont have enough.

the fact that you stated the money used came from different nations.



If not for these allies, I dont believe your nation could have absorbed that kind of shock. Plus.... The land needed. I haven't seen much in the way of you taking any land or buying any. Sure you could use what land you have but, you would still need a lot. I have garrison, I used them to produce my soldiers and military equipment. And I still dont have enough.

Would you stop flaming?

And to answer your question, its economic and military aid as in other countries providing support in researching this.

I am not flaming... Merely trying to gather facts about the situation. I have not once siad anything mean, or valgur. You have provided little for me to go on. This is my reason of inquiry.

OOC: Leocardia, the Sentinels are actually no longer cloned, but are instead considered their own race within Automagfreek and are created the old fashioned way (though before this, they were mass produced through artificial wombs). Same thing goes for my 'wildmen', The Fallen. Over the past 8 RL months or so I've began diversifying my forces, and Sentinels are gradually mating with other races within AMF and create an interestingly different gene pool (though it's unconfirmed if this is forced mating). Of course this isn't really public knowledge, and Damien is content to let the world think whatever it wants about the Sentinels.

Cloning is a good place to start though, and it can give you a decent foundation to build on if you decide to go my route and change things up in the future.

the fact that you stated the money used came from different nations.



If not for these allies, I dont believe your nation could have absorbed that kind of shock. Plus.... The land needed. I haven't seen much in the way of you taking any land or buying any. Sure you could use what land you have but, you would still need a lot. I have garrison, I used them to produce my soldiers and military equipment. And I still dont have enough.

Oh stop being a n00b and get into the spirit of free form roleplay. :rolleyes:
Just because you had trouble gathering the resources to clone soldiers hardly means that Leocardia could suffer the same difficulties.

You're assuming that his nation isn't the size of Mongolia, vast with an unusually small population. Heck he could have infinite natural resources and unique compounds within his nation to build these components, and his state may not necessarily run off any commercial entity.

He may even go through the cloning process via a completely new and alien process to yourself. You, though well known for cloning are hardly the Nationstates authority on the matter.

I don't believe your nation could have absorbed that kind of shock.

I believe it could depending on how he runs his nation.

I have garrison, I used them to produce my soldiers and military equipment. And I still don't have enough.

Once again, he may use alternate methods from yourself, it seems yours are wasteful and inefficient and remind me of the vast left shoes factories of the crumbling soviet union.

Finally, if there is any further doubt the British Empire will write a blank cheque for Leocardias developments.

[OOC: Contrary to popular belief, cloning is actually a really really bad way to create soldiers and living organisms in general. It has an extremely high failure rate, and the organisms produced are invariably inferior to the donor organism. A clone army would, at best, be constituted of inidivudals roughly equal in suitability to join the armed forces as a volunteer army in a country of generally well nourished, well medically cared for citizens, whilst being vastly more expensive. Aside from equipment, a "sentinel" or a "guardian" should be no more or less resilient than a regular soldier and, training aside, the difference in strength and endurance should either be non-existant or at best too small to justify the vast expense of using cloning to attain it.

If you have no scruples then training people from birth to be soldiers would be a relatively cost effective way of making a military in some ways superior to a normal volunteer military, but no one really knows what the psychological effects of being born and brought up effectively as a slave to the state would be. If you want to make "supersoldiers" the only way to practically do this is to use a programme of selective breeding, but again it is neither cost nor time efficient.

As far as I can see, all these supersoldier programmes do is create a soldier 5% better than normal at 500,000% the cost of a normal soldier, whilst ignoring all the problems that mean that the programme would actually create a soldier 25% worse than normal.]

[ooc: A short response, though I am quite tried and my thoughts are jumbled. If the template of the clones was to be chosen correctly, it could copy a being that is already predisposed to being a better soldier than Joe Schmo who signed up after deciding not to go to college. Furthermore, if one genetically mutates the DNA of the clones, they could be much greater than 5% the average soldier, including your arbitrary mark of 25% worse.

As for the "no one really knows the psychological effects of being born and brought effectively as a slave to the state would be," that could be said about a lot of things on NS including your comment that clones would actually be 25% inferior.

[OOC:[ooc: A short response, though I am quite tried and my thoughts are jumbled. If the template of the clones was to be chosen correctly, it could copy a being that is already predisposed to being a better soldier than Joe Schmo who signed up after deciding not to go to college.
Yes it should, assuming perfect replication, as I said in my post. I also said in my post that the vast additional expense was not worth the small increase in suitability, and that you simply do not get perfect replication anyway. Instead you get clones that are inferior to both the original subject and the general average for their species in terms of suseptibility to disease and incorrect development.

I also don't understand your implication that lack of desire to go to college makes you less suitable to be a soldier. Enlisted soldiers do not have to make complex decisions, only carry out tasks for which they are repeatedly trained and for which they need strength and endurance. Strength and endurance can be trained. As an acquired trait, it is much more heavily dependent on environment than genetics, and military selection weeds out naturally poor candidates for service anyway.

Furthermore, if one genetically mutates the DNA of the clones, they could be much greater than 5% the average soldier, including your arbitrary mark of 25% worse.
Except, um, you can't do that. We don't know enough about the genome to do that, and if you want to start making up science to claim that you can do it then you're just as much in PMT as someone who uses fusion power. And it still wouldn't be cost effective.

As for the "no one really knows the psychological effects of being born and brought effectively as a slave to the state would be," that could be said about a lot of things on NS
Such as?

including your comment that clones would actually be 25% inferior.
25% is an arbitary figure used for rhetorical effect. It has been demonstrated repeatedly by real life experiments, such as Dolly the Sheep, that cloned organisms are generally inferior to an average naturally bred organism of the same species subjected to the same sort of environment. You are correct in your assertion that you probably can't put a percentage figure to this difference, but you are incorrect in your assertion that I don't know that clones would be inferior to ordinary organisms.]

OOC: I may be just a Blub here.. but I think the point folks are trying to make is the following.

Some people have put a lot of time and effort into developing their clones, or super-soldiers, or whatever. It's been an ongoing thing and it's usually a part of that nation's personality.

Then you have people like Leocardia.. who just one day make an announcement like this, "Oh well.. yeah, I'm spending 900 trillion dollars and now I have super clones!" I'd be fairly irritated if I were a clone-user, personally.

I have to agree with Praetonia. I found my clones to be vastly moore expensive to matian then my Force-Birth Genome soldier. true they do take some time to raise and train but they do seem to be better then clone Genomes.

and Bob-Bob- I am all about free form role play. But if I was to Rp with him or her, I would need more info about hopw this project came about, and is maintained. And no my way is very effective.

OOC: I may be just a Blub here.. but I think the point folks are trying to make is the following.

Some people have put a lot of time and effort into developing their clones, or super-soldiers, or whatever. It's been an ongoing thing and it's usually a part of that nation's personality.

Then you have people like Leocardia.. who just one day make an announcement like this, "Oh well.. yeah, I'm spending 900 trillion dollars and now I have super clones!" I'd be fairly irritated if I were a clone-user, personally.

Actually, I'm not finished making my genetic super soldiers. I'm just publicly announcing what I'm about to do, but also explaining how much years of effort and costs that it took Leocardia to build such a powerful unit and announcing that my plans are to expand the unit into a larger army of super soldiers.

OOC: Leocardia, the Sentinels are actually no longer cloned, but are instead considered their own race within Automagfreek and are created the old fashioned way (though before this, they were mass produced through artificial wombs). Same thing goes for my 'wildmen', The Fallen. Over the past 8 RL months or so I've began diversifying my forces, and Sentinels are gradually mating with other races within AMF and create an interestingly different gene pool (though it's unconfirmed if this is forced mating). Of course this isn't really public knowledge, and Damien is content to let the world think whatever it wants about the Sentinels.

Cloning is a good place to start though, and it can give you a decent foundation to build on if you decide to go my route and change things up in the future.

Yes, that would be very helpful, thanks.