NationStates Jolt Archive

Here ya go, post.

Taggage!

Okay, WHAT are we whining about, now? It's stating to get right on my nerves, guys.

Look at the post in response to Q's last IC effort and tell me where in it he found cause to reply with that, "the normal BG 'Any one of my women could take on a battalion if F-22s armed with a pitchfork,' bull.", if any of you would care to help.

Looks like I talked about the blockade and Soviet policy on Goa, then reminded everybody that the Soviets aren't actually doing anything. Then that's it. Oh, I mean, then Q. went off on one and my IC-opponents piped-up as well.

Doesn't that strike anyone as a bit lame? Don't do that.

At Port Said were sixty elite Marines and Sentinels, attacked in an historically crucial act by a force with ridiculously inferior equipment and tactics. I rightly expected that Royce would under-state the impact of a cluster-bomb on multiple ranks of infantry, so tried extra hard to press home the fact that getting killed makes a person quite dead. I wrote on for more than a couple of lines about the battle because I felt like it, I'm here to role-play, it is potentially of historic importance, they were elite characters, this is AMW not 50-billion-troops-beat-20-billion-troops, I had twenty minutes left on my paid-for hour at the internet cafe, and the warrior culture is an important part of my nation state that need not be ignored just because yeah-yeah-we-get-the-idea (except that it still doesn't seem to be getting through, really).

How can I possibly take any more losses than 60 out of 60 on hand KIA, captured, or MIA?

And I just want to check with Gurg, that's just a biased IC position, re. Soviets blockading the canal, right? Given that it's USN frigates blockading the canal, and the Soviets have never in history blocked anyone's path through the Suez...

Well, the argument could be made that by keeping military forces in the area, the Soviets are forcing the USN and IRN to keep up the blockade. But that argument is really the beside the point, and it isn't worth our time. Really, it's half IC opinion and half my personal read on the situation. Admittedly, the two are not altogether separate.

BG, I think the point is that people get a tad tired of you claiming the best battleship, the best tank, one of the best fighters, and then informing us every time they pop up. The Hathi, as you have pointed out, 'might be the best tank in the world' or somesuch... I've seen that claim many times. I'm not disputing it, and neither is Quinn. What we're saying is that we know, already.

It's a very minor thing, and I rather think that Quinn is being silly to make this big a deal out of it. A one sentence post would have been just fine for the task, longer and he comes off as rather preachy.

Can't we just move on, though? Nobody really cares, and I think that a slightly abrasive tone is just how BG writes-- sort of like how I write self-deprecatingly and overuse the comma. It doesn't matter.

EDIT:

Oh. My reason for criticizing your statements (and I barely did) wasn't because I'm your IC opponent, and I resent the insinuation. I think that we're more skilled RPers and thinkers than that, as you well know. That's a poor debate tactic, don't use it.

Well, BG, I had a several page response, outlining the reasons for my outburst, including links and quotes from maybe a dozen instances of the kind of thing that I was talking about on both forums, and so on. I was not very happy with all the ad hominem attacks, and the post that I was going to make was filled with a lot of anger.

But, when I went to post it, the Forums suddenly shut down, and even when I tried to post a much smaller version on the regional website instead, it didn’t let me. I was even madder at the time.

But I have since had time to think of what the Quinntonian response would be, and I think I will just leave it.

I do apologise for going off like that; I was just fed up. Thank you to all of you pointed that out in a gentlemanly fashion.

BG, if you don’t listen to me, what do I know, I am just a stupid Christian, listen to them. I will say it again, and risk being called whiney, PLEASE.

WWJD
Amen.

While anything I say will be far from authoritative perhaps a fresh set of eyes might be helpful. Bias is inevitable and players will slant things in their favor most of the time for most people nine times out of ten. I am new to online RPing and this has definitely stuck out for me as being the dominant trait of AMW.

I fail to see why anyone would become angry over bias. The only defense against god-moding is rational arguments and only rational arguments. If a compromise cannot be reached then it would be advisable to put a hold on the current RP until emotions cool down and both sides are willing to compromise. This is a preferable course of action than say booting out members or radical moves like that.

I do not think religion was brought up by anyone but I am unfamiliar with the whole history of AMW. But religion should not an issue. Certain members have more seniority than others so I personally do not mind them being "preachy" on occassion. But I would agree with the statement that prouncements can be overdone.

While anything I say will be far from authoritative perhaps a fresh set of eyes might be helpful. Bias is inevitable and players will slant things in their favor most of the time for most people nine times out of ten. I am new to online RPing and this has definitely stuck out for me as being the dominant trait of AMW.

I fail to see why anyone would become angry over bias. The only defense against god-moding is rational arguments and only rational arguments. If a compromise cannot be reached then it would be advisable to put a hold on the current RP until emotions cool down and both sides are willing to compromise. This is a preferable course of action than say booting out members or radical moves like that.

I do not think religion was brought up by anyone but I am unfamiliar with the whole history of AMW. But religion should not an issue. Certain members have more seniority than others so I personally do not mind them being "preachy" on occassion. But I would agree with the statement that prouncements can be overdone.

Beej, it's mostly an issue of style, as I said before, and even then, the worry was less about the style itself than it was about the impact of the style---I think we were all afraid that the Soviet's constant trumpeting of their absolute superiority in every area imaginable (the whole "we could take on the entire world if they invaded" bit was worrisome) would translate into actual RP godmodding. But I have to admit that, so far, it hasn't gone beyond rhetoric, so I think we can all calm down and carry on with this.

Which brings up an issue: do we really want this? It doesn't seem like any of us really want to fight this war, and it's already gotten off to a contentious start. The Africa Campaign has overall been fun because NG invaded with a zest and a zeal I'd expect only from a psychopath (kidding, NG)---this will be a brutal, angry RP that no one will like and could very well end AMW right then and there. Do we really want to carry on with it?

Hey, Q, you said that I sounded like a whiney teenager, I said that you were the one whining, which I wouldn't have done if you weren't whining at me. So I probably won't do that again, eh.

If anyone wants to think of me as a godmodder, wait until I godmod and then call me on it.

If you really, really want to know whether India could repulse an invasion by the whole world, try invading India and dealing with a hundred and fifty million AKMs.

The Hathi is about the most advanced battle tank in AMW, and the Utopia Class battleships would be probably the most advanced as well... if one hadn't been commissioned unfinished and the other's construction hadn't been halted due to economic constraints surrounding the drought.

Sigh.

I don't like this idea that people are out there feeling something that isn't really appropriate. The Commonwealth just had a drought and had to stop building only its second battleship, we just lost our entire team in Suez, we crashed a WIG and gave-up on the Philippines, we lost over three-hundred personnel and had to abandon the operation against New Caledonia and we lost a modern frigate to a gun and armour ship that shouldn't have had a chance, our only active fleet carrier was sticky-taped together in a near third-world nation and is sure to under-perform off Africa, UE got away completely with sinking one of our vessels, so far the Commonwealth really hasn't run-over anybody (since the Biharis ran away rather than fighting).

I don't understand why this came up when it did. How many posts was it since I last mentioned the Hathi? Something to do with Goa?

You people really are too darn picky.

Just throwing this out there, but Spain, old Rome and new Rome and myself all claim to have the best tanks in the world. Just FYI.

WWJD
Amen.

Oh yeah? Well... I have the best... BEER! That's right. I have the best beer in AMW, so all of you best watch out.

Seriously. Who the bloody hell cares? At this point, combat between them all will depend upon skill of RP, not technical capability. In that respect, I would count an F-100 frigate as equal to a modified Type 23 of Australasia for all intents and purposes, just like I would an Arleigh Burke and a T45. There are differences, but they don't really matter to roleplay.

I don't want this war IC. OOC, I'm delighted that the USN is staring daggers at the Soviet navy, since I'm going to be doing things that Raipur would have objected to in any case fairly soon, and would like to do them without having to worry about Soviet intervention. So, yeah. I very much want this war, to be honest.

Y'know, if one of us has absolutely nothing to do with his time, that said person should try to research the stuff and make a list of strengths and weakness so we can have a comparison between BG's tanks, Quinntonia's tanks, my tanks, Yugoslav tanks, Russian tanks, Czech tanks, Austrian tanks, French tanks, Soviet tanks, etc, etc (You see where I'm going with this?). Unless of course you have already done this BG? Well, of course you have! No one would make those kinds of claims with the proof to back it up, right?

If not, can the "my tank is better than your tank" talk. It's fruitless in this kind of RP and it wastes space and fills the forums with useless chatter. It's kind of like me randomly using one of these useless smilies: :sniper: See, like that, no point, whatsoever.

Address of specific point ahoy!

Well, that's great and everything, but I -the Soviets may or may not- wouldn't claim that the Hathi is better than the Abrams if it weren't. It has a better gun, gun-launched missiles, and passive and active countermeasures that the Abrams totally lacks, and is otherwise similar. A whole generation ahead. Not immune to the Abrams, but nor was the Tiger to the Sherman Firefly.

This is why the Soviets have only 1,100 MT-4s, and most of their tanks are T-72, T-80, and T-90 equivalent.

(Also, the Geletians have better beer than the Brits and Aussies, I've lived in both (Anglophone) countries, after all, so I know! ;) In fact I'm full of Aussie ale right now (my favourite resteraunt burned down while I was standing outside, and I needed consolation, okay?).)

The ISC's frigates (and de facto destroyers) are, by the by, inferior to Britain's destroyers. I'm not sure what UE's former states and China are using, but otherwise they're ahead of everyone else. Just not those darn Darings (or the futuristic ships the USQ is working on).

Ahead of the Arleigh Burke? I don't know much about naval technology, but the boys at Draftroom would yell at you for that. T45 is... well, armed with TASM it would be amongst the best destroyers on the planet (Which mine are, so boo), armed with Aster and, uh, not much else, it is not nearly at the level of an American one. Hogsweat/Questers informs me that the T42 is for some reason more stealthy than the T45, but he might have mistyped. It wouldn't be the first time.

And yeah, Zumwalt is going to pwnzor, I'm sure.

But Bull and Mainwaring did cram most of the options on to the Darings, didn't they? I'm sure they're more stealthy than the Type 42s, as well... they're certainly much cleaner.

It seems to me that this dispute is more an issue of hurt pride than anything else. Certainly nobody likes to have their military equipment dissed. We've all doubtless claimed superiority in some areas at one time or another, and it comes down to nobody being able to dominate in every category simultaneously...at least, not in the AMW setup, where the USQ is not as absolute a superpower as the USA. I don't see why the Igovians can't have a really good tank. They only have a thousand of them, with the rest of their armored corps being made up of, as he stated, T-72 and T-80 equivalents. Quinn seems likely to have at least eight thousand Abrams.


There isn't any reason for us to be having an argument about this right now. BG has never presented his stuff as invincible. Indeed, if anything he has been generous with his losses.