NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm thinking about playing as an FT nation, but I'm not sure really how to do it, or how to handle all the futuristic components of it without getting wankish. Any advice?

ooc: I would suggest reading Euroslavia's sticky of helpful hints. As well, any tech level can suffer from wankishness if you cannot justify what you are doing. In other words, having knights in platemail not suffer any damage as they wade into battle or having a thousand archers appear from thin air is just as wanky as having super-duper AI ships that has an invincible force field and can launch planet-busting warheads as casually as you and I toss snowballs.

Not necessarily true, but I'll ignore that stuff (plate mail could equal energy shields, matter transporter could move archers, etc.).

The thing about FT is it is pretty much just wanks. Don't make anything that can destroy everything and don't make anything that is invincible and you should be fine. Most other things can be explained one way or another.

Either FT (Future tech or Fantasy Tech). They allow you to stretch the imagination more, without having to many restrictions. I, unfortunately, have stumbled upon some people who look down on that view, preferring rigid rules on what is and isn't acceptable. Don't listen to people like that.

What I'm saying is, don't have rapid firing superlasers that can rip universes to shreds or anything, but you can have powerful stuff. My tech does some pretty crazy stuff, but in the end, the weaknesses are quite simple to figure out. As in, my ships are AI (computers; or artificial intelligence). Therefore, they are subject to computer viruses, spywares, and the such. Also, they rely on energy drained from other dimensions, so, if you could figure out a way to stop that, you would have my fleet.

As I said, the weaknesses should be simple, but don't expose them like some idiots foolishly do.

Not necessarily true, but I'll ignore that stuff (plate mail could equal energy shields, matter transporter could move archers, etc.).

The thing about FT is it is pretty much just wanks. Don't make anything that can destroy everything and don't make anything that is invincible and you should be fine. Most other things can be explained one way or another.

To DMG: My whole point was that everything has limits, not about mixing tech levels in order to accomplish some wonderful or magical feat. All tech levels have limits. To expand on your example, how many archers can be transported? How far? Are there any limitations to how many times the transporter can be used? These kind of things make the rp more interesting.

To British Londinium: As well, don't forget logistics. Despite what many say, robots, AI ships, et al. need supplies to run just as the modern soldier needs food and ammo to fight. Someone has to cook the camp gruel and make the bullets.

I also forgot to add this, rps depend on collaboration. Don't be afraid to ask for help (which you are doing here which I think is great) and other info that will make the rp flow smoothly. Most players, I have found, are quite forthcoming in this department.

I've ran into the same problem as you have, however, I'm trying to come up with my own system, unbound by "Star Wars" and "Star Trek" technology. In fact, if you'd like to do an intro RP, I'd be game for it...I'm trying to push out into RP as well.

Don't forget to have fun no matter what you do. The wank isn't as important to me, as it is to respect the other rpers, and rp out the thread within enjoyable reaslisim, so as long as you keep the other rpers always into account, just have fun with the rest of it. FT can be pretty fun freeform rping when you do it right.

Fun is the key advice here. Fun no? =^^=

Fun and enjoyment are key but not at the risk of violating the existing ettiquetes that exist against wanking. Generally wank is bad and earns you somwhat of a bad reputation. You ought to stick to acceptable limits of what is and isn't accepted, don't go too over the top and uber. Sure you might want to be a race of energy beings who created the universe in a sneeze, but is it practical to the universe of the overall NS cosmology?

Not really.

My intro thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=512569) - Comments?

Comments:
I have little/no idea what to expect.

Pretty much you just fired a rocket to see where it would land?
Does it have a mission?
Destination?

Describe the ship.
Crew?

Am I probing a bit deep on the purpose of the ship, er... probe?

Currently I'm in the deadly rut between MT and early PMT... Not wanting to take the plunge into full PMT, but knowing that it is inevitable...

Though I STILL don't have any manned space flight...

OOC:
Hmm... fresh meat. I may have to my eye on you. :p Heh heh. I'll also toss my hat in the ring if you're looking for another nation to RP with. I've been slowly trying to get back to RP'ing. Haven't had a good one in a couple years now.

That would be cool, after all, it's going to be a while for my ship to reach it's destination...

OOC:
Well, we've just recently come out of a period of isolation and have sent out numerous exploration fleets to seek out and explore for new territory and targets, er... conquests, I mean, um...civilizations. Yes, civilizations to have peaceful interactions with. *cough*conquer*cough* :D

Could I RP my ship coming into contact with one of yours?

OOC:
Well, we've just recently come out of a period of isolation and have sent out numerous exploration fleets to seek out and explore for new territory and targets, er... conquests, I mean, um...civilizations. Yes, civilizations to have peaceful interactions with. *cough*conquer*cough* :D

Heh, I did that about two months ago. Go fig. =^^= Taking breaks is a good thing for the spirit.

Could I RP my ship coming into contact with one of yours?

Sure. I've got fleets patrolling all over the place right now.

Heh, I did that about two months ago. Go fig. =^^= Taking breaks is a good thing for the spirit.

Yeah, though mine has been for a very long time. Just got too busy with life.

Lots of players tend to prefer strictly modern Western world tech.
I Rp as postmodern-future. I've found a good way to prevent wankishness is to thank what would keep a society/economy intact. (i.e. replicators in Star Trek eliminate an economic base, and make

There are rigid rules, in FT. Such as being fair, and not having things that go into the region of wank and all that. Now, onto the advice. Personally, seek the help of people such as Chronosia, Hyperspatial Travel, ESUS or GFFA members, etc, on how and what to rp. They know the game and they can help. Now, you should do your own stuff and way of rping, but there are some rules.

I am not going to get into your tech GaE, so let's move away from that. Simple things is, don't do things that would wank, such as having your ships be able to be able to dodge everything or have their shields last against like five ships blasting at it, unless you have a good explanation for such things. There are certain rules you have to follow, such as following your population for your nation, and using 5% of it for your armed forces, and all that.

It can be freeform, but there are a bunch of unofficial rp rules against things that would be wanking. Talking to the individuals I mentioned will clear them up.

All of FT is wank. It's just important that the results of your wank not get in anyone's eye. (That's right, bitches. I just compared FT NS to a giant circle jerk. What are you going to do about it? I'm Neo-freaking-Mekanta.)

Thus, it is important that one maintain balance between one's strengths and weaknesses. Note that "there's a thermal exhaust port that leads to the main reactor" does not count. The same goes for universe distorting shields that prevent all damage, rather than just take a long time to break.

A good way to think is to place everyone and everything on a line. On one end is "weak, cheap, but plentiful" and on the other is "powerful, expensive, and rare"

Then figure out where you sit.

Another important factor is the "personality" of your nation. It makes more sense for a vicious, bloodthirsty race of egotistical sadists to have a large, powerful fleet than a benevolent race that dislikes war. As with MT, population, economy, and history play an important role as well.

Lots of players tend to prefer strictly modern Western world tech.
I Rp as postmodern-future. I've found a good way to prevent wankishness is to thank what would keep a society/economy intact. (i.e. replicators in Star Trek eliminate an economic base, and make

Thankfully I have an economic base, though admittedly based around a collection of agri-worlds, forge worlds and fortress worlds, producing and distributing all the Imperium could ever need. Nothing more breathtaking than an entire world given over to the dark production rites of the Adeptus Mechanicus :D

Avoid RPing with Balrogga and Godular and you should do ok.

Out of curiosity, why not?

I've been roleplaying Future Tech here, because I've been RP'ing Star Trek now for over a year elsewhere. Based on what I've seen, yes, it's easy to get caught up in "all this super technology that will make my ships great," but you've got to remember that even a ship as mighty as the Sovereign class will have its limitations.

Replicators are a good case. Quite to the contrary of what's been suggested about them depriving you of an economic base, replicators are good things to have around on starships and military facilities. They're major power hogs though, and if one's not careful they'll suck your power facilities dry. Hence why they're impractical to use on a planet; can you imagine the power demands from 18 billion citizens hitting up the replicators 24/7?

And don't forget that if you want them to make something for you, you often have to produce the raw materials. Here's a major Star Trek tip for those of you out there contemplating replicators: replicators do not assemble stuff from thin air. They need power and the raw materials to make it from.

More on topic with your question. Know the limitations of your technology. Know its strengths. Communicate them to someone out-of-character before the RP starts, and you'll do just fine.

Can't wait to read what you come up with.

EDIT: Any way you roleplay it, future tech is very much wankish. Whether it be phasers, torpedoes, neural laces inside one's skull, fighters, shields, point-to-point jump technology, impulse engines, et cetera, it is advanced and capable. But only in the hands of someone willing to show that despite its advanced nature it still has some flaws.

Well, let me just toss in my two cents. Listen to Axis Nova, If you even think that those two might look at your thread, mark it as closed. As for why, it's because they have quite possibly the wankiest units on the face of the planet, and insist that their wank be accepted. I say thee nay! But that's a debate for another thread. One which really should be made at some point... So that we can all tell them exactly why arrogant wankery on the Kython scale is automatic phail.

Listen to Chronos, for he is subtle and evil, and will eat you. I mean... Yeah, he's been at this awhile, and hasn't got his head stuck all the way up his butt like some people. That's the one.

Listen to Telros, except for the ESUS part, as several of them admit they wank horrendously. Avoid asking them for advice.

Listen to Mekanta, so the tentacles stay well away from you. And because he's not totally insane, I think.

@NM: I'll do something about it! I'll pass a giant electromagnet over your data storage devices! And your computer!

Also, it helps to extend how modern ideas would be extended into the future.
Like genetic engineering enabling farmers to plant say 5 crops a season, or another modern idea like cryogenics, nanorobotics,cybernetics. Things that 21st century people are familiar with and know about, but still leaves room for imagination.

While I disagree regarding Balrogga and Godular, given that in my experience they've both been damn good roleplayers, I'll keep silent on the Kython point. Nothing too far outside the ordinary, their methods are just different from Star Wars-ish norm. I personally don't like them because I view immunities to anything outside insta-kill weapons (temporal, string, ect) as distasteful.

Obscenely high resistance due to excessive shields and armor? Perfectly fine.

A better way to word it: "Avoid the Kythons and you'll do fine." I've never seen any problem from them until the introduction of those Zircon Knockoffs. (That's right. I said it. What're you gonna do? I'm Neo-freakin'-Mekanta!)


Important thing to remember: All wank is reletive.

One person might think excessive numbers of cheap ships are fine. Another may denounce it as Numberwank. Someone might say "no ST tech" and claim defenders perogative, but may be called on OOC Controlwank. Stellar Converters (Master of Orion 2. Play it, newbies!) on a battleship can be seen as Techwank, or legit.

Thus, don't listen to those who claim someone is wanking. Do some research and use your own judgement. ... Except regarding Germaniche Zustande, if he ever shows up. ... Yes, I'm aware I'm being hypocritical. That's sort of the point. Bite me.

I also advise ignoring Indra Prime and anyone else who uses any form of temporal tech.

Kythons are easy to deal with once you get the hang of them, or if your crazy like me and have known what to do once they get attached since day one :P

As for Temp Tech, I can't say I like it but Indra's got the right idea with policing it and instituting the Accord. Can't fault him on that. I stick to my own tech and like to think I bring a certain character and flair to it, but if people had a problem with certain aspects (Like Psykers, I suppose.) then I'd be happy to RP without them in a single theatre.

Rping is all about forging a story through cooperation and that involves compromise. Lots of the notable FT debacles can be drawn back to one party or another being unwilling to compromise on issues, tech, etc etc...

Ignoring the player is a rather drastic step.

Again, this is a situation where the newcommer should come to their own conclusions. There are quite a few good roleplayers who use temporal tech. Some bad ones, too, but there are bad roleplayers in every catagory. (Yes, all of them.) There are also alternatives for those who don't want to put up with temporal tech, without resorting to ignore. ("They're ineffective." "Why?" "Because Neo-Mekanta gave me Time Jammer technology.")

Besides. I think Indra's gone. Haven't seen him around.

Why all the hate? All I did was drop a Javelin on Axis Nova... he hasn't even tried RPing with the Kythons, and neither has Miehm, who I might say has a far worse track record than I when it comes to wank.

Zerg implanted with Necron tech... and those Impeller wedges! And then of course there's the fact that your primary contribution to any thread is a rather lengthy stream of insults that serves only to piss people off rather than get anything productive done.

I'd say that Miehm is the absolute last person one should listen to for unbiased analysis.

And I always said Chron had the right of fighting the Kythons since... day two? He didn't fight 'em on day one.

Why all the hate? All I did was drop a Javelin on Axis Nova... he hasn't even tried RPing with the Kythons, and neither has Miehm, who I might say has a far worse track record than I when it comes to wank.

Zerg implanted with Necron tech... and those Impeller wedges! And then of course there's the fact that your primary contribution to any thread is a rather lengthy stream of insults that serves only to piss people off rather than get anything productive done.

I'd say that Miehm is the absolute last person one should listen to for unbiased analysis.

And I always said Chron had the right of fighting the Kythons since... day two? He didn't fight 'em on day one.

On day one we were decieved by the void shields and adapted....On the second day, we suffered the Kython Scourge and adapted :P

Chronosia = Chaos Borg?

Chronosia = Chaos Borg?

Worse, free thinking optimistic Chaos :P

Why all the hate? All I did was drop a Javelin on Axis Nova... he hasn't even tried RPing with the Kythons, and neither has Miehm, who I might say has a far worse track record than I when it comes to wank.

Zerg implanted with Necron tech... and those Impeller wedges! And then of course there's the fact that your primary contribution to any thread is a rather lengthy stream of insults that serves only to piss people off rather than get anything productive done.

I'd say that Miehm is the absolute last person one should listen to for unbiased analysis.

And I always said Chron had the right of fighting the Kythons since... day two? He didn't fight 'em on day one.

Just because I havn't RPed with you much doesn't mean I can't read. My main objections to you and Balrogga come from that OOC FT arguments thread.

And I have Kythons ignored out of hand.

And you also have Temporal tech ignored out of hand. We get it. Taking a dislike of the more exotic stuff is of course your own personal opinion, as if I remember correctly yer closer to Post-Modern Tech than straight Future tech, so the exotic stuff would place you at a greater disadvantage than folks who just use cookie-cutter star wars or star trek.

That's your bag, but it might not be the same with British Londinium. He might enjoy further-future tech (which some might claim Cookie-cutter Star Wars fits into) or he might not. That's HIS bag. That's HIS decision. I ain't gonna tell him to avoid you or Mini Miehm because of y'all's decision making trends or because you RP in a way I don't like.

And 'that OOC arguments thread' might have been a mistake but you know what? I still stand by what I said. Background is ALWAYS important. It doesn't have to be pages and pages of technobabble (that's kinda worse than nothing), but there should bloody well be something.

I was more referring to the whole "newbie nations need to bow and scrape" and "unwritten RP rules" stuff that you typed in that thread, as well as what Balrogga did to that guy's intro thread.

And I don't ignore all tech more advanced than my own, only tech that I consider to be wank. For example, I don't ignore TFU's Star Trek stuff, despite the fact that most of his ships could easily destroy mine. *shrug*

Alright, potential tentacle rape victims, let's all just calm down. We're supposed to be helping the new guy, not attacking each other, aye?

...

... By the way, you're all idiots, you smell, you have small pensies (where applicable) and I hate you. All of you.

Again, Neo-freakin'-Mekanta...


Alright, enough jokes from me... for now...

Here, let's give our new orbital barrage victi- I mean, fellow FT'er a crash course in developing non-wanky stuff, aye?

The trick is, like I said, balancing strengths and weaknesses. This entire arguement we've seen, regarding the Kythons at least, is a combination of difference of opinion, and said balancing.

Alright, let's look at... say... a Star Trek ship. Federation Saucerhead. It doesn't matter what class, just in general.

Pros? They're small, so they're easy and cheap to make. Fairly fast and maneuverable. Not too bad of weaponry. Cons? Flimsy as hell without shields. Prone to spontaneous combustion. "Not too bad" weapons don't do much against some behemoths. Not very scary, if one is into that tactic.

Now compare another standard, a Star Wars ISD.

Pros? They're intimidating. Solidly built. Packs great firepower. Serves as a carrier. Cons? They're not very maneuverable. Their shields aren't too hard to get around. Limited firing arc, if I remember right. Pretty expensive, given the size.

This is a good way to think when you're developing your stuff. Anyone else have any examples?

I never said anything about 'smaller nations should bow and scrape.' Be so kind as to not put words in my mouth. And what, you have a problem with communication and mutual respect? I'm sorry I did not know you felt that way. That WAS the point of my posting on 'that thread' after all.

Edited to add: And Mekanta, some folks actually try to push the notion that ISDs can turn on a dime.

Temporal stuff...is that time travel and whatnot?

Yup. I ignore that specific stuff myself, but the Temporal weapons and whatnot are generally acceptable enough. And I won't tell people to avoid temporal tech. It can actually make for some interesting stories if handled properly.

Okay. Thanks.

Well, just to throw my own 1 or 2 cents in, here's some ideas from me. Basicaly building off of what has already been said.

I like a lot of the sci-fi genres, so I don't use just one. I sample from many. I use largely Warhammer 40k tech, and then some Star Wars SSDs for my big dreadnoughts. I'll use a variety of smaller craft, such as Star Trek or smaller SW stuff.

But then I add my own flair to them so as to not have them be just the normal cookie cutter versions. I'm the type of person that could probably come up with my own technology all together, but theres stuff I like already out there, so I just modify it to my specifications. I personally feel its a good way to go, just so though your ships may look like someone else's, they don't work completely the same. And then I'll thrown in a few of my own design (such as a couple of 40K ships I use are my own personal designs that I use in the game. Or as far as pictures go I'll use pictures of my own ships rather than stock internet pics. But thats just little stuff there, not really RP stuff.)

But, to beat the dead horse further, even though I modify the already existing tech, I don't try to make it invincible. My 40K battleship may have modified weapons, better shielding and defenses, but it still has a freaking huge reactor running it. If it takes enough hits in the right spot, the bastard will blow apart and send me home crying to the God-Emperor. (Though in the RP world that would actually be me...)

So, thats my story.

I'm not nearly as frequent an RP'er as the rest of the group here, but I've been around for 3 years now and definitely seen my share. I remember all too well the uber-wank days of Germanische Zustande and The Fedral Union.

As far as temporal tech goes, I always saw it as a major flash point for wank and heated arguments so I stayed away from it. Also I could never damn understand what the hell was going on. Like I said, I've got my tech and I'm quite happy with it.

Find what works best for you. Then make the galaxy tremble at the very mention of your name!

(Also, tread lightly with Mekanta. From what I remember... he will kill you.)

(Also, tread lightly with Mekanta. From what I remember... he will kill you.)

It ain't the killing you need to worry about. Its everything that happens BEFORE... and/or maybe after...

It ain't the killing you need to worry about. Its everything that happens BEFORE... and/or maybe after...

Mmm, yes. Very true. *thinks* :eek:

Ah yes, many tremble at tyhe mere mention of the tortures Mekanta can visit upon us. He makes some interesting points though.

What we ought to think about is a system whereby everything can be put into the context of the larger NS-verse, putting together ideas and thoughts and treatises on different techs and the best ways of implementing stuff. More Stickies for FT and more input from old and new on what we ought to do, revolutionise the system.

What we ought to think about is a system whereby everything can be put into the context of the larger NS-verse, putting together ideas and thoughts and treatises on different techs and the best ways of implementing stuff. More Stickies for FT and more input from old and new on what we ought to do, revolutionise the system.

It's been tried before. It falls apart because not everyone pays attention, and those that disagree with it won't follow it.

It's been tried before. It falls apart because not everyone pays attention, and those that disagree with it won't follow it.

Then we try again, more evocatively and more decisively, more directly cutting into the cankers that stain FT. There must be order. You cannot abide by etiquettes and unwritten rules but would balk at the seeming futility of trying to codify and organise things.

Achievements are not won on futility, but by striving to do your best and by giving your all to a cause.

Is there anyone with me?

Indeed. Plus, there's a bloody lot of 'techs' floating around. Giving conditions towards the use of every one would be entirely too much effort expended into something that not many people would pay much attention to anyway.

For the most part, I've always been the fan of 'unwritten rules' and 'etiquette' that AN has derided me for espousing, simply because its the easiest to keep track of. Keep yer stuff 'balanced' and whatnot with pros and cons.

Is there anyone with me?

I'm with you for the most part. It would be nice to see a somewhat more detailed section explaining some FT stuff. Or least more of a FAQ on the subject. I've checked the stickies that exist, but didn't feel it really answered everything. Though sadly I'm a little too out of it right now to get into much detail.

I do agree with Godular though. I like the unwritten rules as well.

I just think it would be useful to new guys and even some of us veterans who take leaves of absence from time to time to freshen up on all there is.

But yes, anything would be a large undertaking.

Indeed. Plus, there's a bloody lot of 'techs' floating around. Giving conditions towards the use of every one would be entirely too much effort expended into something that not many people would pay much attention to anyway.

For the most part, I've always been the fan of 'unwritten rules' and 'etiquette' that AN has derided me for espousing, simply because its the easiest to keep track of. Keep yer stuff 'balanced' and whatnot with pros and cons.

Still, guidelines would work. Just something to regulate the regular and irritating feth-ups of noobs and their assorted ilks. We want to try and streamline the system, not get mired down in a line of bad sci-fi rejects who can't write worth a damn :P

Is there anyone with me?

You have my bow. ;)

Then we try again, more evocatively and more decisively, more directly cutting into the cankers that stain FT. There must be order. You cannot abide by etiquettes and unwritten rules but would balk at the seeming futility of trying to codify and organise things.

Achievements are not won on futility, but by striving to do your best and by giving your all to a cause.

Is there anyone with me?

It sounds like a bold and noble idea, one that I would support, yet I fear for the worst. As has been said, many people will not abide by it or pay attention to it... chiefly for one reason: disagreement. Because most of this is based off of unfounded science, it is hard to convince someone that one thing will work when another won't.

"If the road is easy, the destination is worthless"
- Saint Sabbat, Proverbs

"If the road is easy, the destination is worthless"
- Saint Sabbat, Proverbs

"If the road is impossible, the destination is foolish."
- Saint Francis of Assisi

Okay... not really. Nor was I serious by the remark. ;)

You have my bow. ;)

And my axe!

:rolleyes: I couldn't resist.

We are the fellowship of the impossible FT idea.

We are the fellowship of the impossible FT idea.

Kewl, I call Aragon... or whatever FT version there is. =^^= (FT Legolas and Gimli are spoken for...)

And I shall be the infinitely wise and powerful leader...

...Or the crazy corruptible jealous and covetous one...

What we ought to think about is a system whereby everything can be put into the context of the larger NS-verse, putting together ideas and thoughts and treatises on different techs and the best ways of implementing stuff. More Stickies for FT and more input from old and new on what we ought to do, revolutionise the system.

It.. could be done. The problem, of course, is that FT rules are remarkably similiar to their MT counterparts - whereas each style of government in MT has its own advantage and disadvantage, you can more easily claim advantage in FT ("I'm an invincible hivemind! Like the Borg! HAH! 'cept, like, not as stupid or lame") by saying you have a special technology that allows you to do just about anything.

Of course, I subscribe to three simple rules. And that's really it. There's a lot of stuff I like to do (for instance, when designing new ships, to stick as closely to hard science as possible, or to see what other implications my FTL methods could have on both my weaponry and shielding), but very little I feel people have to do.

In my opinion, there's three guiding doctrines of FT. The first being population = power. The point of this is fairly simple - I don't give a damn whether you pop-inflate, claim you rule several galaxies, or anything else, but, when it comes to comparing your fleet against mine, and you have several hundred times as many ships, with several hundred times less population... those ships are going to be doing as much damage as cardboard cutouts.

Secondly, I subscribe to the "All techs are equal" doctrine. In other words, you have no right to say your tech's better than mine (or vice versa), unless I agree otherwise. All you have is the right to say your tech's equal to mine.

And the third, of course, is that any of these rules can be broken via mutual consent. They're like social rules - you don't walk up to someone and passionately kiss them the first time you meet. Unless you're in some sort of strange passionate kissing contest. But someone you 'like like', to put it in the most inconvinient way possible, operates under a different set of rules. Once there's mutual consent for having super-ships, or perhaps nigh-invincible shields, both parties can do.. well, whatever they like, really.

The problem is, a lot of 'rules' we subscribe to are there to serve as an advance guard against godmoddery and wankery. As such, they only need to be subscribed to when they're needed.

I'll join you regardless, Chron. I'll be the guy who mistakes the elf as a maiden the first time they meet. And hilarity ensues throughout our quest.