NationStates Jolt Archive

Apperantly there were those that thought they were smarter than the Helicon Battle Control System... some that thought they could outwit and defeat the enemy. Well, this was the test. The 'Greatest General in The Peoples Freedom' was to go head to head with the System. The rules were simple... follow the details. Five thousand men, 200 artillery pieces of commanders choice, 100 small mortars, 200 armored vehicles of commanders choice, 100 tanks of commanders choice, any assortment of guns, grenades, mines or explosives... and three spy planes... which are not to be shot down.

Battle Field (http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6893/thingyyygk4.png)
[30milesx30miles]

Helicon Battle Control System Forces
x5,000 Infantry
~M4 Assault Rifle
~Frag Grenades
~Combat Knives
~9mm Side Arms
~Standard Camo
~Flash Light Attachment
~Kevlar Vest
~Etc.
-200 M60 Light Machine Guns
x25 20mm Guns
-100 Sniper Rifles
-200 RPG-22's
-Various Anti-Personel Mines
x120 C-24 Big Guns
x40 C-37 Mountain Breakers
x40 Towed 110mm Guns
x100 88mm Infantry Portable Mortars
x100 Combat Vehicle 90
x100 G-24 Striker
x50 Kraken II MBT's
x50 ID-57 Decimators
x3 Spy Planes

[All either RL tech or detailed Here (http://z14.invisionfree.com/Kroando_Tech_Inc/index.php?act=idx)

System Casualties

The PeoplesFreedom Forces
5,000 Marine Corps Heavy Infantry (Special-Operations Capable)
- 5,000 M-21 Tactical Battle Rifle
- Elite Warrior System
- Frag Grenades
- Smoke Grenades
200 MG-3 Machine Guns
200 M-21 SAW varient
M-40 Sniper Rifles (25)
M-21 Squad Markesmen Varient (500)
Various Anti-Personal mines
Various Anti-Vechile mines
200 Panzer Lion 155mm ETC Self Propelled Artilley
100x 82mm mortar
200x Doberment IFV
100 Howler MBT

TPF Casualties

[Please detail your forces, and provide links to non-RL tech. Oh, and pick a side on the map.]

5,000 Marine Corps Heavy Infantry (Special-Operations Capable)
- 5,000 M-21 Tactical Battle Rifle
- Elite Warrior System
- Frag Grenades
- Smoke Grenades
200 MG-3 Machine Guns
200 M-21 SAW varient
M-40 Sniper Rifles (25)
M-21 Squad Markesmen Varient (500)
Various Anti-Personal mines
Various Anti-Vechile mines
200 Panzer Lion 155mm ETC Self Propelled Artilley
100x 82mm mortar
200x Doberment IFV
100 Howler MBT

Skgorria will be watching the combat proceedings with much interest. Our message to all the combatants: the strongest will conquer the weak!

[Please provide links to all of your non-RL tech, and pick a side/deploy your forces. I will deploy mine once I know which side you want.]

M-21: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=465863
Panzer-Lion:
Length: 13.1 m with gun forward
Width: 3.8 m
Height: 2.9 m
Weight: 154000 lbs
Armament: One 155mm ETC gun. One 15.5mm machine gun.
Range: 35 miles
Propulsion: One GP 2,000hp Gasoline-Electric Hybrid engine.
Speed: 60mph (road) 35mph (battlefield)
Electronics: XM Graphics Systems, GPS-guided, night and thermal vision.
Crew: Six
Price: 8.0 million
Limit: 1,000

Doberman IFV:
Weight: 100540 lbs
Weapons: one 30mm Airburst cannon, one 7.62 machine gun, one 40mm automatic grenade launcher, eight Apollo Missiles, one 7.62 mm Gattling CIWS
Engine: 2,100 GP engine Gasoline- Electric Hybrid
Speed: 100 Mph (road) ( 70 mph battlefield)
Crew: 3 (Driver, commander, gunner)
Price: $5.5 million

Howler MBT:
Length: 9.6 meters (hull)
Width: 4.6 meters
Height: 3.5 meters
Weight: 174240 lbs
Complement: Four (Driver, Gunner, Commander, Loader)
Primary Armament: 1 125 mm ETC gun (with systems)
Main Armament Storage: 40 125 mm rounds (HE, HEAT, KE etc.) (canister AP)
Secondary Armaments: 1 30mm Airburst autocannon; 1 82 mm mortar; one 15.5mm machine gun (commanders) 1 50. Machine gun (Coxial) Apollo Box Launcher ( six Missiles)
Secondary Armament Storage: 1,000 12.7 mm rounds; 500 30 mm rounds; 70 82 mm rounds; 6 Apollo or 12 Interceptor Apollo missiles
Propulsion: 1 2,200 Hp GP Engine Gasoline- Electronic Hybrid
Speed: 58 mph ( road) 40 (battlefield)
Price: 29.3 million



I'll take Side B

[K. Would you like to pick a side or should I?]

[K. Would you like to pick a side or should I?]

I already picked side B. I'll be on for a little longer, then I will be gone for an hour, but then I will be back.

1st Armored Brigade (Red Square)
x45 Kraken II MBT's
x25 ID-57 Decimators
x100 Infantry (Riding Ontop of/inside Vehicles)

1st Infantry (Dark Red Line on Hill)
x2,000 Infantry
~M4 Assault Rifle
~Frag Grenades
~Combat Knives
~9mm Side Arms
~Standard Camo
~Flash Light Attachment
~Kevlar Vest
~Etc.
-100 M60 Light Machine Guns
x25 20mm Guns
-25 Sniper Rifles
-100 RPG-22's
-Various Anti-Personel Mines
x50 88mm Infantry Portable Mortars
x40 110mm Towed Guns

1st Mechanized (Yellow Square)
x2,100 Infantry
~M4 Assault Rifle
~Frag Grenades
~Combat Knives
~9mm Side Arms
~Standard Camo
~Flash Light Attachment
~Kevlar Vest
~Etc.
-100 M60 Light Machine Guns
-75 Sniper Rifles
-100 RPG-22's
x100 Combat Vehicle 90
x20 ID-57 Decimators
x5 Kraken II MBT's
x10 G-24 Strikers

2nd Mechanized (Small Black Square)
x90 G-24 Strikers
x300 Infantry
x5 ID-57 Decimators

1st Artillery Battery (Large Black Square)
x120 C-24 Big Guns
x40 C-37 Mountain Breakers
x300 Infantry

Map (http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2599/thingyyybl9.png)

OCC: Who's attacking and defending? What's the objective?

[Objective - Kill the other guy. No set attacker or defender. You can post first if you'd like.]

[Objective - Kill the other guy. No set attacker or defender. You can post first if you'd like.]

OCC: Alright.

IC:

The simulation began in earnest. Quickly, Marshal ordered his men to dig in and create fortifications. He deployed the majority of his mines along the dried up river bed. He posted 1,000 men there, supported by 25 tanks, that were camoed and posted up. He included a battery of 25 mortars. Then he posted up an additional 2,000 men spread across the main river, layed mines in front of them, and they also dug in. They were supported by 50 mortars and 50 tanks. All of which were camoed and dug in. Finally he deployed 1,000 men to cover the forest to the north, and with them he deployed 25 mortars. The last 1,000 men and 25 tanks were kept in reserve, ready to reinforce any position. The Infantry were in the IFV's. Lastly, all of the SPA were deployed on the hill.



Marshal then sent the Spy Planes over the battlefield, searching for the enemy artillery, hoping to strike a blow that could knock Helicon out in the early stages. He also sent an order for all Marines to hold their fire unless under attack or given the go-ahead by him.

Immidiate Action

25 Skirmishers/Scouts deployed along entire front to moniter enemy movement. Keep distance of 1-2 miles.

Phase I - Forest

The moment the spy planes had relayed information from the enemy side, men were moving. An instantaneous calculation concluded that the forest on the Eastern side of the field was to be key, thus, movement immidiately began. The 1st Mechanized sped into action, certain elements before others. Four CV-90 IFV's made haste to the forest's edge, which was considerably closer to Side B than Side A. Due to this geographic fact, the troops deployed would likely get there before the enemy. Some 28 snipers were let off, all of which began moving forward through the thick forest. Before long they came to the river... and to their suprise, there were already TPF forces digging in. With a quick report, the System immidiately ordered that the snipers fall back to 350 yards, well out of range of the enemy's standard infantry, and begin harassing. The 28 men fired off well aimed precision shots, attempting to cause some sort of confusion among the enemy lines. They made sure not to stay in one spot for long, lest they become victims of enemy snipers. The remainder of the 1st Mechanized arrived some time later, deploying their 2,000 men into the jungle. However they formed a line another 120 yards behind the snipers (system calculated distance - safe from enemy snipers along river). A light line of fox holes and leveled trees made up the majority, while the Battalion's Armored vehicles lingered at the forests edge, several miles back.

Phase I - Small Town

The 1st Armored Brigade made it's way to the small town several miles ahead, attempting to gain some cover from their previously exposed positions. Once in the town, walls were knocked over, houses made into tank bunkers... in general, care was taken so that the tanks were now protected. 200 Men from the 1st Infantry Battalion moved to the abandoned town to aid in it's defence.

Phase I - Early Strike

Early intelligence reported enemy artillery taking up positions along a low hill behind the TPF Lines. Artillery, according to system calculations, was the primary target, thus, the barrage began. Doubtlessly enemy spy planes had picked up the G-24 Strikers in the rear, meaning that they would likely be coming under fire soon. The barrage opened with each of the G-24's firing a single CD/44 Twister-2 Anti-Armor Missile into the air, which of course were now locked onto to the LADAR Provided Image of the enemy Panzer Lion 155mm ETC Self Propelled Artilley Guns. The LADAR however only provided the location... the lock on came from the vehicles heat signature provided by it's engine heat. As these missiles used top of the line locking equipment, it was unlikely they were going to fall for flares, or lose their lock very easily. The 90 Missiles whizzed through the air... providing a show for the troops. They dared not sit idle however, and immidiately began moving. Not in any specific pattern... just to keep from being easy targets from return fire.

The system never trusted any one element of the army to take care of any one task. Thus, the 1st Artillery Battery opened up, using pin-point coordinates from their spy planes overhead (along with their deployed scouts). The most devestating rounds of course came from the 240mm C-24 Big Guns, firing High Explosive Shells unto the low lying hill and the artillery. However the most accurate were fired by the C-37's and their 155mm ETC Guns. These 160 large calibre weapons fired away with unrelenting fury at the enemy artillery, knowing well they had large stores of ammunition. If the enemy guns began to move, as they likely would, the guns would merely adjust their coordinates based on overhead data, as the entire field was effectively within range.

All this, this which would take a human general quite some time to order... was orchestrated and ordered in less than seven seconds.

Casualties

N/A

[If im misreading it and you artillery are not on the hill, assume all of the fire is still directed at your artillery.]

OCC: We should start with our forces both already set up because then that would cause an unfair adavantage.

[Ok, assume that they are already set up. I dont think my post conflicts with your troop deployments. Even along the forest-river area, I said your troops took your side of the river while mine are now several hundred yards back. Not sure what you mean.]

You said my men were starting to dig and artillery starting to set up. Also you never said that the Spy planes were spying, I however, did. That would mean we would spot each other's forces at roughly the same time. I also think the simulation would be much more interesting if we had to use recon instead of Spy planes.

^^ Read above.
[You cant change your post to counter mine...]

You said my men were starting to dig and artillery starting to set up. Also you never said that the Spy planes were spying, I however, did. That would mean we would spot each other's forces at roughly the same time. I also think the simulation would be much more interesting if we had to use recon instead of Spy planes.

Do your tanks also have the shortstop system?

[I clearly stated my spy planes were spying... first line.

The moment the spy planes had relayed information from the enemy side

Just say your artillery started firing the moment mine did. As to the shortstop system, 1/20 do carry it. As it only works against proximity fused shells (which very few people use), and it works just as well with one as with twenty, I carry very few of them.]

Around Four Infantry fell to the enemy snipers. The rest were put on high alert, and continue to build even better defenses.


The artillery came crashing down on the hill. More than 30 Lions were destroyed, the rest targeted the enemy artillery, and returned fire, using the special cluster bomb shells, any one of the hundreds of hand grenade sized projectiles could do serious damage to the enemy. Then the Artillery moved position. All the Howlers fired two Apollo missiles at the enemy artillery.

[How did those 90 missiles I fired miss? And of 28 snipers lining up and picking out targets... only four managed to hit? My men are actually trained...]

[How did those 90 missiles I fired miss? And of 28 snipers lining up and picking out targets... only four managed to hit? My men are actually trained...]

OCC: My men are trained too, including the art of suppression and counter-sniping.

I'll bump it up to 90, Lions

Artillery - Under Fire

The enemy artillery shells had the potential to be very deadly. Cluster munitions were designed to cover vast spanses of land, to knock out hordes of advancing infantry. At this they were adept, for their munitions never stayed in one area... they spread out. Thankfully, the Helicon Controlled Artillery Batteries were just that. Artillery. They were not very spread out... and they certainly did not warrant cluster munitions. As the enemy shells cracked open thousands of meters overhead, nature did more than anyone else to protect the artillery. The sheer physics of wind and air friction tossed the grenade-sized explosives to and fro, forcing them to fly through the air, moving them often times a hundred yards from where they initially broke open. The accuracy of cluster munitions in general was never spectacular... but then again, they never had to be. They were meant to supress infantry advanced. The majority... the vast majority of the small explosives simply missed flat out, some even being so off target so as to hit the infantry lines a few miles ahead. However there were those that did hit their mark. Unforunatly for the TPF Artillery, only direct hit's had much of a chance at disabiling one of the guns, due to the amount of armor slabbed onto the vehicles... and the relatively weaker punch of the munitions, most of the hits caused immobility, or severe damage... but rarely a flat out destruction. Only fourteen artillery systems were destroyed, 9 C-24's and 5 C-37's. Ten more C-24's were immobilized, and nine severely damaged. Those that were damaged and immobilized however, continued to fire.

A more real threat came from the Apollo Missiles fired from the enemy Howler's across the line. About four seconds after they were fired the G-24 Strikers were notified of their existance via LADAR/RADAR/IR Seeking devices. And they never had to move a finger. The System, fully integrated into their firing procedures, immidiately had SDCI-3 Interceptor Missiles in the air, moving at supersonic speeds to knock out the enemy Apollo's. The 90 G-24's fired a total of 220 SDCI-3's to knock out the enemy Apollo's. And they were relatively sucessfull in this. Only 14 Apollos survived to make it to their targets. However their targets were not exactl defenceless. 1/4 was armed with a 12.7mm CIWS Gun... which immidiately began firing DU rounds into the approaching missiles. Chaff and flares were also deployed to throw off the guidance systems. Of the 14 that were not hit by the SDCI's, only four hit their targets. Four more C-24 Big Guns were knocked out. However the exchange continued, as the remaining artillery continued to pound the enemy artillery... and the G-24 Strikers fired another volley of 20 D/44 Twister-2 Anti-Armor Missiles at the enemy Lions.

Total Losses.
15 C-24 Big Guns Destroyed
x10 Immobilized
x9 Damaged
5 C-37 Mountain Breakers Destroyed

OCC: I'm not happy with your losses but ill accept them.

The Howlers soon fired their own interceptor missiles at the enemy knocking all but one out of the sky. The missile struck the lion, but only damaged it.

12 more Lions were destroyed by the enemy artillery, before unleashing with their 155mm nuclear artillery shells.

OCC2: You said any assortment of explosives....

[1. Take back the nuclear attack now. That is terrible RP. If you cannot RP a battle without resorting to nukes, there is no way you can command the IFE.

2. You used your weapons inaccurately. Cluster munitions are meant to take out infantry. You used them against armored vehicles. You messed up. My casualties are actually quite excessive considering cluster munitions... cannot destroy artillery.

3. Your tanks are quite far away from the artillery... yet they intercepted the missiles?]

[1. Take back the nuclear attack now. That is terrible RP. If you cannot RP a battle without resorting to nukes, there is no way you can command the IFE.

2. You used your weapons inaccurately. Cluster munitions are meant to take out infantry. You used them against armored vehicles. You messed up. My casualties are actually quite excessive considering cluster munitions... cannot destroy artillery.

3. Your tanks are quite far away from the artillery... yet they intercepted the missiles?]

1. I never wanted to command the IFE. I just dont want some stupid computer to do so. And it isn't stupid.. considering the U.S. designed them. Change it to HEAT.
2. Considering we used the in the Gulf War to take out APC's and the sort... Not tanks... but APC.
3. Yes, and dont forget there are 25 near them. These missiles have a 90 mile range.

[1. If you cant win without nukes, you cant win. This 'NUKE YOU!' nonsense as standard front line battle tactics must end. And no, the US does not use nuclear shells in war. Never has, and never will. Nuclear weapons are not permitted in the simulation.

2. Cluster bombs dropped from aircraft are vastly different then cluster munitions in artillery. The US does not use cluster munitions in artillery shells as an anti-armor capability. They are incapable of destroying armored vehicles unless in extremely high densities. Cluster Artillery Ammunition is quite innaccurate. Its like dumping a jar of pennies out of a plane and hoping to hit a bulls eye below. HEAT Ammunition is the only thing the US uses for Anti-Armor Roles in regards to indirect artillery fire.

3. Fine. However I am now simply basing my casualties off of yours. If I have more artillery firing than you, with bigger guns, and am getting 12, you'll get a few less.]

Artillery Engagement

As the enemy finally began to use somewhat effective munitions, casualties did increase. Nine C-24's were destroyed in the barrage as the two forces continued to slug it out, niether giving in. Unfortunatly the system still had to abide by the laws of logistics. Ammunition was never unlimited, so the firing pace dropped by fifty percent, firing only a few shells per piece every minute.

Behind the Forest

The 1st Mechanized had dropped off their payload of infantry, however, was not quite done yet. It immidiately turned south, moving at full speed along the edge of the forest, towards the river where enemy forces were reportedly dug in. The 100 CV-90 IFV's followed close behind the five Kraken II's and the 20 ID-57 Decimators. They stopped some three kilometers from the river, and the Kraken's opened up, blasting away at the enemy line with their 140mm ETC Guns. The ten G-24 Strikers were also positioned here, firing three Anti-Armor Missiles each at the enemy. Thirty missiles in all sped towards any armored vehicle along this portion of the river. The ID-57's pushed forward, followed closely by the CV-90's. However something more important occured here. Some fifteen 88mm Mortars were unloaded, and immidiately began firing upon the area before the river... the area reportedly infested with mines. In addition the CV-90's fired sporadic shots with their 12.7mm's, as did the ID-57's in hopes of knocking out mines. The 110mm Guns positioned back at the line also began pounding the area infront of the river, clearing mines via forced detonation. [And only so many could be laid down... its not like im going to sit there and let you set an entire minefield infront of the river. If thats what you mean by 'already have our positions', then no... im not going to let you have a pre-set trench line fixed with mines and barbed wire.] Finally, three of the C-24's picked out new targets... 240mm High Explosive shells were now landing right along the TPF side of the river, attempting to weaken the enemy line.

[Now remember, I am only attacking a very small portion of the river. Though you have 2,000 along the entire thing, along with fifty tanks and whatever else, I am not attacking the entire thing. At most I am attack a stretch of distance three hundred yards long... so your entire river defence is not firing at me.]

Battle Movements (http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8964/thingyyybg8.png)

OCC: Im leaving in a few days so I won't be able to complete this. However I would like to make it perfectly clear that The Peoples Freedom will withdraw from EVIL if Helicon takes control.

[So because you're losing to me... you want to withdraw from the alliance. Where I come from we have a saying for this...]

[So because you're losing to me... you want to withdraw from the alliance. Where I come from we have a saying for this...]

OCC: I personally dont care if I lose. NS is about losing, and Ive admitted defeat plenty of times before. I just dont want a computer taking control. I already know that it will have a coup in your nation.... blah.... blah.