NationStates Jolt Archive

The Kingdom of Bartonstein is looking to get into the weapons production business. We are in the process of designing a new, high power, armor piercing pistol. We are, however, in need of financial backing, as well as research personnel. Anybody who is willing to help us throughout the project will receive an 50% discount on the finished product.

ARMOUR? Mmm, this will be the challenge for the Mayflower Corporation. I suggest a new kind of bullet. A two-projectile bullet. The first will be a mini-missle that penetrates the light-skin armour, this would be shaped like a ball, then the actual "bullet" would be a super rounded 8mm mauser round, that wil hopefully richocet around the inside of the APC or other light armoured vechile and maim a few people.

We request that your business merge with the Mayflower Corporation, as you will provide the issues, and we will ATTEMPT to solves them...

By anti-armor we mean anti-personal armor, such as kevlar, and things of that nature. A high speed round is also in the early stages of design.

Can you explain this Mayflower Corp. to me?

Bastard... we'll how about you just rip off the Desert Eagle, I mean it's anti-Kevlar.

And if you want to be originial, well then.... you can't...

Can you explain this Mayflower Corp. to me?

It's the largest corporation is the Latican Empire and we already have a weapon manufactoring business. (Look at sig, it's the second one)

Kevlar is easy enough to break through, what you need to worry about is the Ceramic inserts, and in the case of my troops, the titianium plating...

A 8.5mm round should do justice to kevlar.

We are just asking for aid, not to merge with another company. We want to be original, plus the the .50 pistol round has a slow speed and isn't the best thing for piercing kevlar.

TPF We need to discuss my tank, but what do you think of my anti-pistol gun theory?

A 8.5mm round should do justice to kevlar.

Heh, if that does justice to it, my guns need to be locked away for police brutality...

K3 Liberator (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11627388&postcount=3696)

Ok, so for ceramic plating, titanium?

Ok, so for ceramic plating, titanium?

That's quite a bit tougher, I'd suggest exploding bullets but that's already been done and people would be pissed...

5.7x28mm?

I want to know if my idea would work !

I don't think it is feasible.

Probable not in its current state what if we go into it a little more? I mean who DOSN'T want an anti-APC PISTOL, cmon.

That's quite a bit tougher, I'd suggest exploding bullets but that's already been done and people would be pissed...

Thats bigger than a .357! Feasible if it wasn't Auto. Maybe Semi-Auto. Anyway, exploding bullets work, look at the OSCW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM307

Of course, that is a big bullet.

It's single shot, pistol. It has a ball infront of it, and is forced out a heavy metal shield but has a little whole so the mauser round and go threw, expectely a few explosives get into where the bullet is, but pre-launch of bullet it is covered by a strong enough substance.

And i thought that was a grenade launched..

Exploding bullets work, but not in a 2 piece system, the resulting explosion from the first piece would obliterate the second part of the round.

A 8.5mm round should do justice to kevlar.

Problem is, the majority of militaries use either 5.56mm NATO, 7.62mm NATO, 7.62mm WP, or some newfangled 6.8mm round like the Remington SPC, not something as big as a 8.5mm round.

We are just asking for aid, not to merge with another company. We want to be original, plus the the .50 pistol round has a slow speed and isn't the best thing for piercing kevlar.

In order to defeat body armor you don't nessecarily have to pierce it. The pure kinetic energy transference from something as big as a .50 cal Deagle round will crack bones and cause internal injury on a target wearing body armor.

Ok, so for ceramic plating, titanium?

Use a saboted flechette dart. It may not possess the greatest stopping power, but it will pierce most anything an infantryman can wear without powered armor.

Thats bigger than a .357! Feasible if it wasn't Auto. Maybe Semi-Auto. Anyway, exploding bullets work, look at the OSCW

Exploding bullets for a rifle sized weapon are pointless.

I think he wants something like this. (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg25-e.htm)

What about a saboted flechette dart that on contact with the body has become a deformed piece of metal. Using a metal with the correct melting point could accomplish this.

Exploding bullets for a rifle sized weapon are pointless.

lol, That's what I said. Of course some Militaries have larger bullets, like the .388 for DMG. Also, how does a saboted flechette dart work? I know we developed a weapon like this during Vietnam, but cant think of the name.

lol, That's what I said. Of course some Militaries have larger bullets, like the .388 for DMG. Also, how does a saboted flechette dart work? I know we developed a weapon like this during Vietnam, but cant think of the name.

Think a saboted shell for a tank, only smaller.

As for the mystery weapon, you may be thinking of 'beehive' artillery rounds, which dispensed lots of little nasty bits in flight for anti personnal work.

What about a saboted flechette dart that on contact with the body has become a deformed piece of metal. Using a metal with the correct melting point could accomplish this.

It's not going to work, if the melting point is low enough, it'll probably lump on contact with the armor.

See, the thing is, you can either have a big beefy round like a .45 ACP for good stopping power and crappy armor penetration, or something smaller and faster for the opposite effect. You won't be able to get both without making serious tradeoffs.

Something like the Russian weapon would be nice, but It needs more penetration, because of the new armor of the day. A round with high penetration and a respectable stopping power.

Think a saboted shell for a tank, only smaller.

As for the mystery weapon, you may be thinking of 'beehive' artillery rounds, which dispensed lots of little nasty bits in flight for anti personnal work.

Nope. On the History Channel they developed a flechette firing weapon. They passed it over for the M16.

Nope. On the History Channel they developed a flechette firing weapon. They passed it over for the M16.

If I remember correctly, the M-16 was lone in competition to replace the M-14. But, around that time was the SPIW project in the 60s, but that never really got off the ground. The first rifles to attempt to use a flechette system effectively were the Steyr ACR and some AAI gun.

Nope. On the History Channel they developed a flechette firing weapon. They passed it over for the M16.

SPIW, ACR, and CAWS. They made flechette rounds for grenade launchers and shotguns as well.

Oh dear such a lot of nonsense and misinformation...

Rifle calibre Fletchette rounds worked fairly well in the SALVO, SPIW and subsequent projects but were never really a reliable option as an alternative to a proper bullet.

AP ammo for a pistol is difficult to pull off and to be honest both low calibre (5.7x28mm) and full calibre (9x19mm) rounds give similar performance when using dedicated AP ammo, your major issue is the limit on the useful muzzle enrgy of a round which for a psitol is about the .357magnum/10mm Auto/9x23mm region with 800joules being a good limit.

For actual bullet design you have 2 main choices: a Cop killer round i.e. a monolithic brass or hardened steel bullet with a light gliding jacket or an APHC (Armour Penetrating Hard Core) round where the softer bullet material srrounds a hardene core made of steel or tungsten.

The one thing you should remember is that you are never going to biuld a pistol than will penetrate armour that is proof against rifle rounds so ceramic or other hard material inserts are not soemthign you need to worry about.

If you wan t adetailed recommendation you should take 7.62x25mm tokerov and up the muzzle energy to 800joules.