NationStates Jolt Archive

At the begging of 1913 the British Empire claimed the entirity of not only the entire continent. A number of voices including Norwegian, Danish, Russian, American and Spanish voices refusing to recognise the British claim on the entirity of the continent and all associated nearby islands and ice shelves.

A few other nations, particularly Portugal, Japan and Greece recognise the British claim. 3 years have passed and parties on either side are at an impasse with there apparently being no resolution of this situation, annoyed by the lack of progress with the situation the King Christian X of Denmark has made diplomatic approaches to all nations that have explored that wonderous continent, particularily England, Australia, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, France, United States of America, Belgium and Russia and Sweden to come to Copenhagen for discussions to possibly nut out a compromise situation, as the current situation stands not only is there the issue whether the Antartic can be claimed but also the recognition of the accomplishments of other nations and their expeditions.

The meeting hall had been laid out with all the places marked for the British and their Dominion Australia, then the other European Countries, France, Russia, Netherlands ,Belgium , Germany, the Scandinavian countries Denmark, Norway and Sweden, and finally the United States of America who sit between the Swedish and the representatives from the United kingdom.

OOC: Only countries that have sent expeditions to Antarctica as of the start of 1916 have been invited, if you are not invited please not post.

The British Delegation arrives and takes its seat. It is a mixed group of Australians, Englishmen, Scots, Irishmen, Canadians, South Africans, and New Zealanders. Together, they plan to present a united front on their claim. They do not plan to relent on Britain's rightful claim to the Continent, and also announce that there will be two Imperial Expeditions held in 1917, one from Britain and the other sponsored by New Zealand.

Captain Hendrik Olivier sits down, after spending time resting from his recent trip to Antarctica, beside him is Bert Jacobus, a government official sent by Prime Minister Cort van der Linden. Captain Hendrik Olivier announces that the Third Dutch/Danish Antarctic Expedition will occur during 1918

Fredrik Hjalmar Johansen accompanies the Norwegian delegation. Norway's two other famous explorers, Nansen and Amundsen, are already on their joint Norwegian/American expedition to Antarctica and Johansen's exclusion is possibly a result of disagreements with Amundsen over the first expedition. Whatever the case, one of Norway's most famous explorers is along with the delegation.

Dr Nils Otto Gustaf Nordenskiöld arrives with the Swedish delegation.

The Russian delegation arrives and takes their seats, thanking the Danes for inviting them. They announce that they refuse to recognize the ludicrious claim and intend to launch a series of expeditions in a few years, when the funding is made avaliable.

Knud Johan Victor Rasmussen and a representative from the Danish foreign ministry are the Danish representatives to the meeting, Knud proudly shows of The Order of the Dutch Lion medal received from Queen Wilhelmin and greets his friend.

Knud confirms the thrid Dutch/Danish Antarctic Expedition and states that there is going to be a fourth joint expedition planed for 1919, The swedish explorer is also warmly welcomed by Knud as he takes his sit.

The French delegation arrives, also thanking the Danes for setting up the conference. For now, the Frenchmen intend to maintain the French government's policy of quiet neutrality on the issue of Antartica, but have instructions on how to deal with various predicted situations.

*While a number of prominent Australians with british connections appear on the british delegation, Australia decides to send it's own delegation, citing that to not do so would be an insult to the host that invited them and also a means of neglecting their rights as a country that has independantly funded and organised its own trip to the "even more southern" continent. It becomes very clear early on however, that they are strongly in favour of the british claim over Antarctica.*

*The Australian delegation comprises of a number of important figures from a number of organisations including the Australian Association for the Advancement of Science, the Australian National Research Council and a number of others. Individuals part of the group also include respected Antarctic explorer Dr Douglas Mawson, well known for his scientific discoveries and - more recently - his epic story of survival.*

The Danish Explorer is the first one to take the floor and address those that have gathered.

"I wish to welcome all the representatives for coming today, fellow explorers and governmental representatives as well. It is coming up on 100 years since the first man has set eyes on the great white expanse of antarctica the continent at the bottom of the world. Since then it has intrigued many with expeditions from all over the world to learn and discover more about this mysterious continent capped in ice and snow.

Antarctica truly was a virgin continent, no human had ever steped onto it's soil until recently. There is so much more to discover on the continent and this is in addition to the unique research that can only be done in the antipodes of the world. I beleive the continent is too valuable to the world to let any single nation control, also I believe that the claim laid by the British to the entirity of the continent, it's ice-shelves and it's islands can only lead to fracturing of relationships of the great nations that we have assembled here today.

As such, with the approval of the Danish government and the Royal Danish Geographical Society, of whom I represent here today, I propose the creation of an apolitical international body to manage the affairs of the continent. This body has responsibility of creating policies in regards to what can actually be done on the continent. These policies to apply equally and without prejudice to all."

And with his speech over Knud sat down and started gaging responses from other representatives.

The German delegation arrives and takes their place at the conference, for now just sitting and watching what happens.

The British delegate speaks first.

"While what you propose is laudable, as such, the spirit of International Cooperation is not so alive as you perhaps wish. Reeling from the devastating Great War, many of the powers see no use in involving themselves in Antarctica. They, I believe, are here for matters of mere formality.

"Great Britain, on the other hand, having stayed out of the War, was able to devote efforts that otherwise would have been aimed at war to other adventures, exploration of Antarctica included. Two expeditions from Britain were sent during the course of the war, and two more will begin next year.

"Now, Britain has claimed the contient for a series of reasons. One, is for the obvious enhancement of the Empire. Another, is that Britain desires to be the forefront of exploration and the guardian of the unknown. As many know, regular patrols from key British ports happen to ensure the safety of explorers and fishermen alike. And as many know, Britain has been far from tyrannical in its reign over the Southern-most Continent, allowing two separate Danish-Dutch explorations to occur with no malice or interference at all.

"Rather than be applauded for our efforts at protecting the continent, we are threatened by what we considered friends. Scandinavians and Dutchmen condemn us, and Americans imply that the Royal Navy is a gaggle of pirates. That is the true unjustice I say!"

The Russian delegate speaks next, "I agree with my Danish associate. No one country should ever have dominion over the entirety of the southern continent. It should, instead, be a place for all nations to explore, study and use for scientific purposes."

"Indeed, I believe that Britain holds no rightful claim to the continent. If anything, Russia has a stronger claim by right of discovery. However, my government does not wish to make sole claim over the southern continent. We wish for all peoples of the world to share in it."

"The British delegate speaks of 'unjustice'. I believe that he is wrong. The unjustice here is that his government has shamelessy taken claim over a continent that, until now, remained away from the politics of the rest of the world. They have no right, as I see it, to claim it."

"Ah, so then you would advocate the exploration of Siberia by countless national and bi-national exploration teams? Would Russia allow a group of 20 British Men to wander around Siberia mapping and naming things for their own country? Would Russia allow Germans the same priviledge? Or how about Greenland. Or the Central Sahara? What of Alaska? Perhaps Central Africa?"

"No, Britain sees no reason why any of these countries should allow exploratory groups to wander through their sovreign country without their permission. However, Denmark and the Netherlands and even Russia advocate similar breaches of territory in British land. If you do not call that injustice, then good sir, I am happy that I do not live under your law!"

"That is absurd." states the Danish government official

"Siberia, Greenland, Central Sahara and Alaska are all internationally recognised and populated areas. Antactica, while indeed Japan, Siam and Greece have recognised the british claim , as well as Australia and other members of the British Empire, This by no means an international, forget consensus, majority, or even large minority."

"And to counter your previous points, Britian's other activities during the war where to loan a large amount of money to the allies.And I fail to see how Antrctica holds "obvious enhancement" to the British Empire, even Greenland which you mentioned adds population and economical benefit to the Danish Crown. Where as Antarctic simply put is a wasteland, no population benefit, no economical beefit, no even agricultural benefit. In fact claiming the entirity of the continent uses up British resources... 5 old cruisers, which I am sure could be better spent by putting the personnel into the british army, mordern naval ships , air force or naval airforce."

"The second goal of being at the forefront of antarctic is infact not enhanced.... can you construct any sort of permanent bases that will infact aid you in the conquest of this great continent? No one can. And no one is insuiting that the british navy is indeed a gaggle of pirates but indeed is this security needed? Is indeed the antarctica so much a haven for pirates that a constant watch out by the British navy is required?

And with that the government representative.. but Knud continued..

"What I believe the government official is saying is that all the goals of the British Empire can infact be met by our proposal. The British empire can get whatever it means by 'the obvious enhancement of the British Empire' though collaborating through this international body, The body will certainly allow Britian to remain in the forefront of it in accordance with it's polices.

And once again should the body decide that such defence of fishermen and explorers are needed then the British are welcome to put forward a proposal then. The only question is will you support a proposal that you infact did call laudable?"

Parthini;12095218']"Ah, so then you would advocate the exploration of Siberia by countless national and bi-national exploration teams? Would Russia allow a group of 20 British Men to wander around Siberia mapping and naming things for their own country? Would Russia allow Germans the same priviledge? Or how about Greenland. Or the Central Sahara? What of Alaska? Perhaps Central Africa?"

"No, Britain sees no reason why any of these countries should allow exploratory groups to wander through their sovreign country without their permission. However, Denmark and the Netherlands and even Russia advocate similar breaches of territory in British land. If you do not call that injustice, then good sir, I am happy that I do not live under your law!"

The Russian delegate suppresses a snort of laughter. "I would advocate no such thing, as Siberia ios internationally recognized as a soverign part of the Russian Empire and is populated by Russian citizens. I expect you would recieve the same answer from the Americans regarding Alaska."

"And the question of whether Antarctica is indeed British remains to be answered. If Britain continues along these lines, the Russian government could easily justify it's own claims to the continent and then hand ownership rights over to the international body. After all, having discovered it, we do have more of a claim then the British Empire."

"Aside from all of this, I agree with the Danish delegate and Mr. Knud. The continent should be regulated by an international body, not claimed by a single nation."

After reviewing several notes, the British Ambassador retorts.

"Russia did not discover Antarctica, as so many here are decieved. Yes, it was a Irish man aboard a British ship who first laid eyes upon the continent on which we debate. Not only that, but the esteemed James Cook was the first man to venture south of the Antarctic Circle.

"Edgeworth David was also the first man to reach the magnetic South Pole, and Scottish men established the first permanent base. Russia has merely had a man land in Antarctica. If any nation has a right to claim the continent it is the British Empire, especially since so many of Britains possessions lay near the southern continent. Russia, on the other hand, has not a single possession south of the Tropic of Cancer! Britain has laid claim to the Continent and by God she shall not relent!"

Parthini;12096878']After reviewing several notes, the British Ambassador retorts.

"Russia did not discover Antarctica, as so many here are decieved. Yes, it was a Irish man aboard a British ship who first laid eyes upon the continent on which we debate. Not only that, but the esteemed James Cook was the first man to venture south of the Antarctic Circle.

"Edgeworth David was also the first man to reach the magnetic South Pole, and Scottish men established the first permanent base. Russia has merely had a man land in Antarctica. If any nation has a right to claim the continent it is the British Empire, especially since so many of Britains possessions lay near the southern continent. Russia, on the other hand, has not a single possession south of the Tropic of Cancer! Britain has laid claim to the Continent and by God she shall not relent!"

"Be as it may that your Captain cook first sailed in the Anarctic Circle, the first person to actually discover the continent was Captain Fabian von Bellingshausen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_von_Bellingshausen) of the Russian navy. According to his logbooks, report to the Imperial admiralty and I believe his own diary, he first sighted the continent on January 28, 1820. Before your own captain Edward Bansfield."

As such, right of claim by discovery falls to Russia. Not Britain. Regardless of that, let us examine the rest of your arguements. Britain does not need to claim all of Antarctica. In fact, all nations have refrained from laying claim to it because there was no need to claim it. All nations were free to explore it. However, if you lay claim to it, what is to stop you from making it impossible for other nations to explore it in the future? Russia's position is clear: the continent should be international, belonging to no one nation."

Hearing about the Russian's using Bellingshausen as proof of their claim to the Antartic got a good chuckle out of the German delegation, considering he was a German.

The German delegation does anounce Germany's support of Britain's claim.

The Danish government official spoke his bit.

"I see that we are at an impasse, perhaps The Permament Court of Arbitration, in the Hague could solve this impasse."

Parthini;12096878']After reviewing several notes, the British Ambassador retorts.

"Russia did not discover Antarctica, as so many here are decieved. Yes, it was a Irish man aboard a British ship who first laid eyes upon the continent on which we debate. Not only that, but the esteemed James Cook was the first man to venture south of the Antarctic Circle.

"Edgeworth David was also the first man to reach the magnetic South Pole, and Scottish men established the first permanent base. Russia has merely had a man land in Antarctica. If any nation has a right to claim the continent it is the British Empire, especially since so many of Britains possessions lay near the southern continent. Russia, on the other hand, has not a single possession south of the Tropic of Cancer! Britain has laid claim to the Continent and by God she shall not relent!"

The United States Ambassador looks over at the British with amusement and replies.

"According to history, an American captain Nathanial Palmer sighted Antarctica 3 days after your man Captain David, which gives the American claim, should one be made, as much right as yours and also help discover the South Orkney Islands, which your explorer Shackleton has used as a base from time to time. In addition, Captain Wilkes of the US Navy in 1839 - 1842 was the first to actually prove Antarctica is actually a continent, just before your country sent the Ross Expedition. That said, the United States refuses to recognize any claim to Antarctica at this time and will not change that decision."



Wilkes Expedition information
http://www.south-pole.com/p0000079.htm

Hearing about the Russian's using Bellingshausen as proof of their claim to the Antartic got a good chuckle out of the German delegation, considering he was a German.


[OOC- Actually, he was a Russian- a Germanic name, but he was a Russian from the day he was born to the day he died and served the Czar.]

OOC:
"Born to a Baltic German family in Lahetaguse manor (in German: Lahhetagge"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_von_Bellingshausen

OOC:
"Born to a Baltic German family in Lahetaguse manor (in German: Lahhetagge"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_von_Bellingshausen

OOC:

You forgot this bit.

" - then part of the Russian Empire - Bellingshausen enlisted as a cadet in the Imperial Russian Navy at the age of ten. After graduating from the naval academy at Kronstadt at age eighteen, he rapidly rose to the rank of captain."

He may have been ethnically German, but he served Russia and was, for all intents and purposes, Russian.

"I don't see any of this argument being useful, we are here to come to a decision about what to do about the Antarctic and not engage in theoretical arguments about whether Fabian_von_Bellingshausen was German or Russian. In fact, I think we've come to what some people would call a stalemate. I propose a break where we can catch a breath and then perhaps afterwards we made find a way past this."

And with that the Danish representative of the foreign ministry got up and went to get some refreshments, Knud followed him and they engaged in a brief private discussion, nearing the end Knud nodded.

As other representatives got up Knud came up and and had a brief discussion with them about something, seemingly gauging their interest about something, Knud even approached the Australian and English delegations.

OOC: All people present please find a way to contact me, thank you.

After some time everyone was once again called to the table.

"During the break I have raised a potential compromise that I beleive that may just solve the problem, for the record I'd just like to lay this out on the table for discussion."

He pulled out a peice of paper and put it on the table before going into the detail of the proposed compromise.

OOC:

Basically Britian gets to have their name on a peice of paper that says Antarctic is theres while the actual administration of Antarctica , by international agreement, is put into a body that would legally be a british body but contain Antarctic Experts from all nations represented here. The word of this legally british but practically international body determines policy on Antarctica and everyone would be bound by it. (Britian by law and everyone else because they have to)

The piece of paper I my person passed a copy of a draft charter for the proper international body that I was creating, of course if this course of action where to be taken, it would need to be seriously edited but it can certainly be used as a reference document.


Antarctic Managerial Office

#Preamble#

We, the undersigned nations of the world, recognize that the continent of Antarctica is a neutral continent, a place where no one single nation has a valid claim over. However, also recognizing the potential inherit in it's unique position for various unique research options and in conquering the untamed continent through exploration.

#Membership#

The Antarctic Managerial Office, henceforth refered to as AMO, shall have an open membership, Any nation that wishes to have a say in the managing of Antarctica may do so.

#Function#

The AMO shall:

1. determine policy on the following;
a. Ecological and environmental protection of the Antarctic continent
b. Number of bases, temporary or permanent, allowed per nation

2. construct and maintain, once determined to be feasible, a permanent base to be open for international usage at the South Pole.

The AMO shall not:

1. prevent a signatory nation from sending an expedition

2. prevent any non-signatory nation from sending an expedition that complies with AMO policy

3. have Bias towards, or against, any single nation or any group of nations due to non-Antarctic related politics


Britian gets to have their name on Antarctica while a practically international body overseas it's running. I think this is closest to a win-win situation and the best chance for success.

After some time everyone was once again called to the table.

"During the break I have raised a potential compromise that I beleive that may just solve the problem, for the record I'd just like to lay this out on the table for discussion."

He pulled out a peice of paper and put it on the table before going into the detail of the proposed compromise.

OOC:

Basically Britian gets to have their name on a peice of paper that says Antarctic is theres while the actual administration of Antarctica , by international agreement, is put into a body that would legally be a british body but contain Antarctic Experts from all nations represented here. The word of this legally british but practically international body determines policy on Antarctica and everyone would be bound by it. (Britian by law and everyone else because they have to)

The piece of paper I my person passed a copy of a draft charter for the proper international body that I was creating, of course if this course of action where to be taken, it would need to be seriously edited but it can certainly be used as a reference document.



Britian gets to have their name on Antarctica while a practically international body overseas it's running. I think this is closest to a win-win situation and the best chance for success.

ooc
should drop the environmental and ecological section, as that isn't historically valid for this time period.. that kind of thinking is later in the century

IC
US recommends that Antarctica be defined as the furtherest extent of the winter ice pack, plus 100 miles, and that also resource extraction, including whaling, sealing and fishing, be governed by the treaty.

US also recommends that the body be called the Antarctic Territorial Commission, or the Commission for short. The Commission would consist of all treaty signatory nations, and an executive committee of 5 with a Chairman, be appointed by the Commission to handle affairs. The Commission would meet in London, and administrative fuctions would be carried out at Port Stanley, the Falkland Islands.

All exploration teams and fishing vessels would be required to make a visit to the administrative offices in the Falklands to acquire permits, except for signatory nations, which can get them through their respective governments.

The British Delegate states that perhaps the British Antarctic Territorial Commission would be a more suitable name.

He is also curious to know what of potential mineral or other valuable resources that might be present on the continent. Surely due to Britain's claim, British companies would have first choice over them.

A Danish assistant, comes the table and hannd the representative of Foreign Affairs a piece of paper. Written on it is the following...

Antarctic Treaty

Preamble -

Clause 1 - Defines Antarctica as the furtherest extent of the Winter Ice Pack plus an additional 100 miles

Clause 2 - Recognition of British claim on Antarctica

Clause 3 - Formation by the British of an entity, to be known as the (British) Antarctic Territorial Commission (to be known as the Commission) which
(a) Has the legal Authority to establish policy on Antarctica bypassing British parliment
(b) is to made up of experts from signatory nations of this treaty
(c) defines policy in regards to number of bases, both permanent and Temporary, signatory nations may construct and the conditions in which they may construct them.
(d) defines policy in regards to extraction of any natural resources found in Antarctica. Including but not limited to Fishing, whaling and sealing
(d) is to build and maintain a permanent South Pole base, once determined feasible, to be open to all signatory nations.
(e) Establish an office at a low lattitude, such as Port Stanley, Falkland Islands, where administrative functions are performed
(f) establish an Executive Council made up of 5 persons and a chairman voted from the main committee

Clause 4 - A Permit is required for Fishing and Exploration, which are available from the Antarctic Territorial Committee for non-signatory nations or via the Government for Signatory nations. Non-fishing or Exploration uses of Antarctica require the approval of the Commision's Executive Committee.

.......................

He reads it, slightly dissapointed that the pre-amble was not created but passes it along. "This is a draft of the treaty, it unfortunately does not have a Pre-Amble at current and does not raise the issue of what could happen with any resources, except fishing, once they are found. Which needs to be discussed."

OOC:

Btw, the resource extraction I thought would have been covered under the ecolgical/environment clause of the AMO. If anyone has any suggestions for pre-amble I'll be happy.

Parthini;12165551']The British Delegate states that perhaps the British Antarctic Territorial Commission would be a more suitable name.

He is also curious to know what of potential mineral or other valuable resources that might be present on the continent. Surely due to Britain's claim, British companies would have first choice over them.

The United States representative says bluntly that the British territorial commission isn't at all or remotely acceptable to the United States, and feels that having the Commission HQ in London and administrative center in British territory is as far as the US is willing to go toward a concession.

In addition, if this treaty cannot be worked out, the US will not recognize any other authority but its own in regards to its activities in the Antarctic. The United States wants to make very clear to Great Britain that it sees the Antarctica as simply an extension of international waters, as it seems to be entirely covered by it (ice cap), and will act accordingly. The US will not under any circumstances recognize the British claim to Antarctica

ooc
US Administration is feeling some pressure because of domestic issues

* Building Under Midnight Platitudes *

Dispairing that four years of talks have accomplished nothing, the US withdraws from the Antarctic Discussion Forum in 1920 and declares that as far as US policy goes, Antarctica is an international zone.