NationStates Jolt Archive

Here it be, the OOC thread for AMW's League War/WWIII. Post away.

A Tag, to be updated as necessary...

Looks like the Soviets may be entering on a new scale, now. The Roiks have gone and Malaccad it all up.

South India is most annoyed with the western capitalists for continuing to tollerate and even defend Roycelandian imperialism while opposing both the League and the revolution, and mortified at the idea of Roycelandia -with NATO support- condemning Libya and probably all North and West Africa to Catholic European domination and brutalisation.

We probably have to risk a lot of our allies and ties in resisting Roycelandia's de facto entry into the Holy League (meaning that some western economies appear now to be paying for both sides of the war, which is just really confusing and annyoing the Commonwealthers), but if we don't take a stand the revolution and democracy would be worth nothing.

Ick, I don't want to fight Quinntonia at the moment.

Then stop threatening Goa, and pull out of Africa.

If BG permanently and unequivocally renounces any and all claims on Goa, past, present, and future, recognises it as sovereign Roycelandian territory, withdraws all troops from the border, and further withdraws completely from Sub-Saharan Africa in perpetuity, then I'm prepared to open the Canal back up to Soviet military shipping. I'll even waive the canal fees for you. It goes without saying you move the Liam as well, though.

Otherwise... well, our military tech might look antique, but it's just as modern- if not more so- than anything else out there. And if you're determined to attack Goa, the 300,000 personnel there will fight so hard and so determinedly that Stalingrad will look like a pillow-fight by comparison.

India might be the land of 150,000,000 assault rifles, but Roycelandia is the Empire of 500,000,000 firearms. Since you'd be fighting Quinntonia as well, you know you're going to come off second best eventually. From what I hear, France and the Holy League are also discussing Peace Talks with Australasia and Quinntonia, too- which means you're going to be fighting pretty much everyone. If you were leaving AMW, this would be a pretty neat opportunity, of course- but since you're back, and presumably interested in the longer-term survival of BG, you might want to think about our generous offer. ;-)

See, we're not unreasonable people. :-)

For an Aussie/Kiwi, your mindset is surprisingly American, sir!

Why should we give-up our favourite parts of the status quo in response to a new grab by you?

Things are one way... you grab Suez... we give-up Africa and our sub-continental leverage... you keep Suez... man, we'd suck if we went for that. That'd be like the USSR withdrawing its missiles from Cuba without getting the US to withdraw its missiles from Turkey.

Obviously the Commonwealth isn't going to roll over for no reason =)

And you must realise that we don't really care about Goa. We just think that your imperial fixation makes it excessively important to you, and so threatening it is a balance to whatever latest land grab the Empire may be engaged in.

Ah well, blockade ahoy.

Can I get some clarification on the timeline of all this please.....

Is this thing with the Suez happening at the same time as the war against the Holy League? I need to know because my time-keeping has become totally screwed up now. If it's during the League War, then I'll have to totally disregard the Japanese election thread that I recently made, because in the Timeline Project the election happened after the League War.

If I'm supposed to be assisting Quinntonia/Australasia/Roycelandia then I'd like to know exactly which Japanese government is in power, because it would actually make a difference to forces committed, extent of support, etc.

If any of that makes any sense, of course.

Wait...when did the Roiks get the Suez Canal? And how? The Egyptians by themselves could've blown the whole of the Roycelandian Navy out of the water!

Where is the thread for this, anyway?

There's an after the League war, now? Do you have inside information saying that the world is still going to be there?

And I'm not sure about Roycelandia and the Suez... which is partly why the Commonwealth's acting so surprised. (If Royce is speaking for the Egyptian government, then he's going to be invaded by the Latin American Soviet Commonwealth, of course... )

If we want to be technical, the Suez Canal is now under the Administration of the Suez Canal Authority, which is a company appointed by the Egyptian Government to oversee the Suez Canal and look after its maintenance and defence.

The SCA is, if you look closely enough, owned by the Imperial Trading Company. However, Quinntonia and Australasia are on the Board of Directors, which means that the Suez Canal actually belongs to Roycelandia, Quinntonia, and Australasia. Eveyone just likes to forget that since Quinn and Gurg have massive navies... then again, so does Roycelandia, but until this little incident, no-one had ever annoyed us enough to make us want to use it to their full potential. ;-)

Full thread here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=509068

And yes, it's all happening at the same time as the League War, AFAIK.

Yeah, after, what, one post? It is perhaps a hasty accusation, but I don't like the looks of things...you've just taken perhaps the world's most important waterway without so much as an IC word in advance, and without another side to the issue.

I am prepared for the Soviets to conduct a war with... half the world, if need be, but need to clarify some things, first.

Limits to my time on-line will have an impact, of course.

Then... would everyone else actually want it?
Neither Royce nor the ISC have ever really RP'd big wars. We skirmished with eachother, he over-ran some petty NPCs, we had a stand-alone engagement with the French. I'd just want to be sure that Royce even wants to RP a big war before we got into such a thing, or it may turn bitter, if some players care more than others, or are enjoying it more.

And... if the Egyptian government has made a hugely significant policy change to Royce's benefit and to India's detriment... what does this say for other nations?

If that has happened, and NATO/SEATO/Whatever and maybe even the HL combine against the Soviet bloc... would it not be fair to start more seriously thinking of the Soviet bloc? The People's Republic of Bangladesh, the PR Nepal, the Lao Democratic Republic, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, the Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, the formative and still-contested Namibian Soviet State, the half-born Democratic Kampuchea, Zanzibar and possibly the whole of the former United African Republics, Venezuela, Ecuador, half of Guyana, Colombia, all benefit by -even depend upon- Soviet backing... which becomes all together more significant if NPC Egypt has made a strategic policy change of such epic proportions (as to directly affect Libya and others). If Egypt has done this thing, and various African territories from Gabon to Algeria have been annexed by Royce, then I suppose that it is entirely reasonable for these Soviet satellites and allies actively to behave as such.

Well, at least until someone new comes to play in their lands (which I do not think is on the cards for Gabon, Nigeria, Algeria...).

A few things... firstly, TCB, you've hardly been Captain Activity of late. I'd assumed that the INU had simply reverted to NPC status. Weren't you meant to be RPing Mozambique or something?

Secondly, if you've got a problem with me, Quinn, and Australasia taking the Suez Canal, then you should also have a problem with all these mini Soviet Commonwealths springing up everywhere. I certainly do, but I've let it pass up until this point.

And I don't really want to fight a massive war with BG- I'll be honest with you (and please don't take this the wrong way), but I was under the distinct impression you were leaving AMW. I don't think an all-out war will end well for either of us, but ultimately I think the combined might of Roycelandia, Quinntonia, Australasia, Japan, and the Holy League is going to come out on top. It certainly seems a bit of an about face to go from "I'm leaving!" to suddenly having a Soviet Commune in Guyana. Honestly, there is no logistical reason why Roycelandia can't wipe Guyana off the face of the map- but we haven't.

The Gunboat Diplomacy thread has been up for over a week now, and only a handful of people have replied- to paraphrase Douglas Adams, "You were quite entitled to make protests at the appropriate time", which has now passed.

So, either it's time for a do-over, in which we rewind the non-WWIII clock back and hammer out a few details, or we face the possibility of WWIII getting seriously and uncontrollably out of hand.

Currently, my only response to Gunboat diplomacy is to begin planning an op to waste Gurgs base, does Gurg have the whole island or just the two sovereign base areas under his control?

Can't find a general OOC thread, unless this is it, but is this RP open to new members?
If so I'd be interested in joining.

Yeah, we are wide open.

Mainly because unessential NPC countries are taking on very essential roles in the world now.

The ones that are on the top of my head (that you should think of playing first) are Egypt, Greece, Canada, a slew of little tin-pot Afrikan countries, and former United Emirates (like, the whole Middle East).

Our official recruitment thread. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=455144&page=20)

Done. Hope I've jumped into something that'll stay alive...

If you want to take over the RPing of, what is it, something like 15 states? Well, be my guest, Royce. Don't expect me to deliver a seventy page long post on every topic when I can hardly address every one of ECOWAS's five or so theaters. As a matter of fact I was, and am, RPing Mozambique, but all of nothing has gone on there since UE's departure. This present war eats-up most of my time as it is.

Of course, the commander of the Carrier Battle Group Mary Mother of God, ironically the one that was tasked with keeping an eye on the Catholic powers, gave the order to move his fleet ahead of the incoming Spanish one, and putting a CAP of F/A-22 Raptors into the air and having their choppers and escorts ready for anti-submarine warfare. They were already ahead of the Spanish Fleet, closer to the Isles, but they were going to put themselves between the Spaniards and the Isles.

Uh, unless you are going to crowd between the Channel Islands and the coast of France, which is sort of a shooting gallery with very little room to manuevre, youd have to get inside French or Spanish Territorial waters to stop me, which is, if i am not mistaken, an act of war. And my S-80s on patrol in Biscay will be shadowing the group and preparing firing solutions.

Sorry if that sounded a bit snarky, TCB... I just wasn't aware that anyone had taken over RPing the INU. AFAIK, they'd reverted to NPC status, and I was (and am) more than happy to respect that. We really don't have any desire to bring about a Roycelandian Raj in India, even if BG didn't exist.

I'd prefer to leave the INU open for a new player, in all honesty.

Sorry if that sounded a bit snarky, TCB... I just wasn't aware that anyone had taken over RPing the INU. AFAIK, they'd reverted to NPC status, and I was (and am) more than happy to respect that. We really don't have any desire to bring about a Roycelandian Raj in India, even if BG didn't exist.

I'd prefer to leave the INU open for a new player, in all honesty.

Royce, TCB is LRR.

Heh, ah, Royce, I think that you've completely misunderstood... a lot of things.

I was moving from Britain to Australia, to stay temporarily with a friend before ending-up in parts unknown, and couldn't say whether I'd be able to get limited, regular, or virtually no internet access. I could either say, "I don't know" and go to Aus... only for the Commonwealth to suddenly vanish without any build-up RP, or I could tell everyone that I *may* have to leave, that I was moving across the world, and that I would try to continue if it were possible, and I could set-up an RP explanation incase I was unable to continue.

The monsoon failure was to serve as sufficient reason for potential Commonwealth introspection, and was not something that had to directly affect other nations, nor was it something that the Commonwealth couldn't shrug-off if I found that regular net access were possible.

It is, so the Indian Soviet Commonwealth continues as ever.

As to Guyana... well, it's well-known Soviet policy to protect the Latin American anarchists by any means necessary, up to and including total war. Plus Roycelandia's never proven its ability to successfully prosecute a war against such a foe as the tens of millions of anarchists in the former NA, anyway.

But there's no Soviet Commonwealth in Guyana, dude.

I was saying that if Roycelandia can just take the Suez from an Egypt that has no reason to give it, then Indian Sovietism could replace the Neo-Anarchan syndicates.

The only Soviet Commonwealth besides the Indian one is in Namibia, where we landed forces tens of times larger than the national military and engaged with communists there who've been Soviet allies since day one (with them having been USSR allies and the ISC following on from the USSR in AMW tradition). I've continued to refer to that as 'contested', as well... but no other nations/players have so-far opposed it in any shape or form. If Roycelandia doesn't like it, they can act. Namibia isn't just an agreement with an NPC, it's also a de facto invasion and occupation... and the understanding between the ISC and the NPC is based upon the status quo, not in radical opposition to it as in Suez.

And, yeah, the INU never went away. LRR's been one of our busiest and most active players from the Drapoel wars to this day :)

Sorry, pretty long-winded, but I'm sitting under air conditioning and have absolutely no desire to move from this computer, heh.

You can bet that the Roycelandians are arming and training the Namibian resistance, but the reality is that if Roycelandia goes in and fights- then what? There's nothing of value in Namibia for us, and we learnt our lesson about ideological wars back in 'Nam.

Here's an idea: How about a war in Lusaka? Roycelandia relents on the Canal and allows things to return to the Status Quo, and then promptly invades Lusaka- which, let's be fair, has always been RPd as having a military full of unmotivated, untrained stoners- giving Beth Gellert (who are propping up the Lusakan military) and Roycelandia a chance to shoot at each other without the whole thing resorting to "Official" entry into WWIII.

And the thing is, the official view of the Roycelandian government is that Lusaka is NOT a sovereign country- it is "Roycelandian territory under the temporary administration of a Rebel Government". Which means, under Roycelandian law, a Lusakan invasion would actually qualify as a civil war and not an "invasion", if that makes sense.

It seems as though the prospect of invasion by Roycelandia would motivate Lusakans very quickly. And although it might be viewed as a civil war by Port Royal, India wouldn't see it like that, and NATO wouldn't be obliged to come to Royce's assistance. Not to mention, Lusaka still has some superb units, the LRAC being a prime example, so nobody could reasonably expect to invade the place easily.

Indeed, it would be a difficult fight, but that in itself doesn't mean that a remote imperialist off in Cuba wouldn't order it attempted, I suppose.

(...and Namibia has plenty going for it!
"diamonds, copper, uranium, gold, lead, tin, lithium, cadmium, zinc, salt, hydropower, fish. note: suspected deposits of oil, coal, and iron ore"
Plus, skinny elephants, and skinny communists!)

Roycelandia lost last time, the UAR has incorporated West Zambia, Zimbabwe, and the DR Al Khals since last time, and the Republics have something like two thousand main battle tanks, two squadrons of supersonic Golkonda fighters, a monitor with 15" rifles (correct?), LS-8 AFRISAM surface-to-air-missiles, and about four short-range ballistic missile launchers. As TCB says, the LRAC at least is motivated (if small), and Roycelandian invasion would probably come through the Maasai heartland... if I'm not mistaken, motivating the Maasai to fight for the Republics was an issue important to Lusaka and difficult to accomplish... invasion would probably do it, and I think that a couple of encounters with the Ilmeluaya would put a total end to Roycelandian use of the cold steel!

On the other hand, the military was down-sized a lot during all that political instability and economic trouble, I don't think that the monitor has ever moved from port, and since Lusaka's gone it's probably safe to assume that leadership factions in the three Republics are after greater local power and Republican autonomy, which could cause some sort of division and weakness where you'd expect unity.

With the AfCom gone, too, the whole region is probably crawling with militias and out-of-work soldiers, and I'd imagine that economic circumstances are not happy, all of which might change the shape of a conflict.

Oh well, speculation aside, the Soviet base at Zanzibar would necessitate some kind of Soviet involvement in the proposed conflict. And the ISC has officially recognised the United African Republics as a nation-state with its own federal government, but we don't really have a formal alliance that would oblige the Soviets to declare war on Roycelandia if our base and Soviet nationals in the UAR were not directly threatened.

I suppose we'd bulk-up forces on Zanzibar and, if the situation became dire, help to evacuate the federal or republican governments to the island. We'd probably give the Lusakans satellite intelligence, keep heavy forces on the Goan border to limit what Roycelandia was willing to deploy away from there, and start delivering supplies from Namibia into Zambia and Zimbabwe.

We'd certainly not wait until it was looking bad, then offer West Zambia membership of the still largely theoretical South West African Soviet Commonwealth, and pour guerrillas across the border by the thousand, anyway!

Can i get a reply to Iron West any time soon?

I am just going to throw the Quinntonian two cents in here.

1. Egypt hasn’t made a significant change in policy; it has sold its rights to a company. That company most likely has national regulations to observe and so on. If BG attacks the Suez, it stands to reason that Egypt would defend itself from an invasion. If anything, the Suez was going to be treated exactly as it was before, with not so much as a price hike, and shipping of all kinds allowed through. Correct me if I am wrong, but the idea of cutting off all but allied shipping started to crop up after threats started to fly against Royce.
2. Quinntonia has no interest in engaging in conflict in Africa. NATO Treaty guidelines specifically outline that NATO is under no obligation to Royce should he engage or be engaged in any kind of conflict in Africa.
3. Quinntonia has no interest in engaging in conflict over the Suez. Nevertheless, they would fight a purely defensive action should an unfriendly nation make any move against that area. This would be the same would UE or Egypt still control it. It just so happens that Royce is currently administering it, and thus, Quinntonia would support the defense of any friendly troops there. And let’s face it, the Soviets are the most reviled group in the world in Quinntonian eyes.
4. The Soviets have nearly come to total war many times in the past with Quinntonia, in Dra-pol; you supported a government that is responsible for the deaths of almost one million Quinntonians. In the last Goa engagement, you continually threatened war with Quinntonia and her NATO allies while pushing the envelope to see what could get away with. We showed resolve, you backed down. It is then that the major reports of Soviets torturing missionaries started to reach the Quinntonian news. In Libya, you fired a nuclear weapon, which the Quinntonian people almost unanimously condemned. But in the following weeks, Quinntonia decided to back down to avert a disastrous nuclear war. Now, you start to make militaristic demands against Suez, which we just want to make sure stays amicable to us and our needs, pushing us into Royce’s corner. Now, you are making threats against Goa again, which forces us to defend it legally under the NATO charter. Now, the Quinntonians don’t really care about Goa, most probably couldn’t point it out on a map, but they know that the Soviets are evil and that they seem to want to take over the world. So, they are not just prepared for conflict this time, they are starting to demand it.
5. The only way that Quinntonia would engage in a major war with the Soviets is through the invasion of Goa, though if the Suez was attacked, who knows how much our defense of that canal could escalate.
6. I think that it is completely unreasonable to allow you to start to speak for all of those NPC nations. Sure, you might have trade agreements with them and cooperate and so on, but if they are allowed to start fighting on YOUR behalf, then I am going to have to claim all of the nations that I have relationships of a similar nature with are going to fight on MY behalf. That means pretty much every nation in South and Central America that is outside NA. That means pretty much everything NPC in all of Europe, including Germany and Poland. That means, this becomes rapid and rabid stupidity. If there is to be a general war, it will be with PC a nation only; that is all.
7. Again, Quinntonia has no want for a war, but it seems as though the Soviets, and you especially have become more and more erratic as time has gone on in the last six months, and I am wondering what is going on. Is this a personal vendetta? Where is the anger coming from? Nevertheless, I will go to war should you keep pushing. I have proven that I can stand up and fight and my force projection capability is second to none. And Quinntonia doesn’t fight alone. Goa is a tricky area that brings all of NATO and SEATO into the conflict with us. I have no interest in invading India, I don’t think any of us are even considering it. But we will defend Goa to the last man, and if that means that for my part I have to take away your ability to sail the seas or fly in the air, then so be it. You have to know that between us all, you might even be able to stop an Indian invasion, but you could not win a war with a defensive objective. Even if you took Goa you would rule over a crater and graveyard, lose perhaps millions and in the end, you would be reduced to a regional power as you air force and navy would be counted among Quinntonian kills.
8. I do not mean to be a hard ass, but I think that we can get along here quite well, Quinntonia has a history as policing the world, and we will continue to do so. BG, you should really re-evaluate your position in the light of reason. If you don’t care about AMW anymore, let us know; don’t ruin it for everyone else. And BTW, why don’t you and Royce make an effort to sit down and have a beer while you are down under, though you might be on opposite ends of the continent.

WWJD
Amen.

I don't think BG ever claimed that those nations would fight on his behalf, Quinn. Even if they could, which is impossible because none of Raipur's political partners have any force projection capability to speak of. The last time it came up, BG played NPCs in Southeast Asia because NG was about to invade them all, and it stands to reason that they wouldn't much like that. For as long as NPCs continue to be invaded offhand, it seems unfair to deny them the ability to prepare for aggression on the part of their likely enemies. And we've lost two of the staunchest supporters of global anti-imperialism movements recently, Lusaka and Neo-Anarchos, as well as Sub-Saharan Africa's most prominent native power, the African Commonwealth. Somebody's going to have to play them, at least when somebody else decides to make them part of an RP.

Heh, Q. your propaganda seems to be spilling out of character, now.

When we backed-down from the brink of war, it was because you showed resolve... when you backed down, it was out of a humane desire to avoid bloodshed. I expect it plays well in rural Quinntonia, but not so much out of character ;)

The Canal... the main reason for Soviet objection is that Royce said that Soviet military ships won't be allowed through. We need to get them through in order to protect Libya. Royce blocking us is a clear indication of his support for the proposed Italian invasion of Libya, which has no chance of success with Soviet support for Tripoli, and every chance of success without it.

There's also -but only in light of that clear support for the HL and opposition to the Soviet block- the problem that we do not want to trade with Roycelandia, and as such do not want to pay Roycelandia for access to the Canal. They support our enemies and want to destroy our allies, why should we pay them to use a canal through a neutral party's territory?

A clear position from the Soviets that I am surprised to be required to explain out of character!

France has Czech, Swiss, and Korean mercenaries, Royce, Spain, France, and Russia have annexed about a dozen NPCs, Royce has dictated strategic Egyptian policy, but Vietnam won't support the Soviets in what would ammount to a war for the survival of the current Vietnamese government?

Fair enough, we'll just have to invade, pff, Ethiopia and Nicaragua, and make them support us, hey?

As to your talk of war with India, well, I don't see how it is either her or there in this discussion, but, yeah, possible bit of over-confidence there, mate! Try to engage enormous Indian forces in India, if you want, but I don't know the OOC value of this line of IC stick-waving.

Wait... Italian invasion of Libya? That's not in our best interests at all...

Check the Gunboat Diplomacy Thread for some late breaking news. ;-)

Here's the thing: I'm not interested in invading the former AC (From an RP point of view, they're "Civilised", which means there's no compelling reason to annex the country. Roycelandia has a massive, Empire-sized case of The White Man's Burden, if that helps to put things in perspective).

Similarly, there's no room for new countries in SSA if we take South Africa, Rhodesia, Namibia, Botswana, et al.

However, I am tempted to get involved in Namibia... Just as if Roycelandia attempted to establish another Colony on the other side of India, you'd be in like Flynn, we really can't sit back and let the Soviets establish a Soviet Commonwealth in our own backyard, so to speak.

Of course, we both know it would be... politically inexpedient for Roycelandia to weigh in as The Empire Of Roycelandia, with our Red-Coated Imperial Guard Ridding Africa Of Communism To Ensure The Freedom Of People Everywhere.

Of course, the Special Operations Command do a rather nifty line in Supplying Governments with Arms... Is there a thread for Namibia at all?

One other thing: You're not paying the Roycelandians for access to the Suez Canal. You're still paying the Egyptian Government, who have delegated the day to day running of the Canal to a multi-national company, which happens to have a Roycelandian as the CEO. The CFO is a Quinntonian, and an Australasian is also on the board in an Important Position as well. All three nations get a cut of the Canal Fees, of course, but please stop thinking of this as "OMG Roycelandia pwns teh Suez!", as much as I'd like it to be, of course [;)]

The only practical difference for 99% of ships plying the Canal are that the defence forces are Colonial Guard, and the Egyptian Government is now saving a fortune by out-sourcing the running costs of the Canal to someone else (The Suez Canal Authority). It's a sound business decision, which has been unnecessarily militarised by third parties.

Um, aren't the Ottoman Empire and Roycelandia Allies? That was certainly my impression, in which case you've really got nothing to worry about.

Of course, Royce. It's all diplomatic blather, to be sure. The Ottoman government needs to appear to be doing something and this was the best they could come up with.

Of course, Royce. It's all diplomatic blather, to be sure. The Ottoman government needs to appear to be doing something and this was the best they could come up with.

Ah, that's alright then.

*Unloads cargo ship full of SMLE rifles, Vickers Guns, and Webley Revolvers in Istanbul and has them delivered to the Sultan with the compliments of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Royce I* ;)

France has Czech, Swiss, and Korean mercenaries, Royce, Spain, France, and Russia have annexed about a dozen NPCs, Royce has dictated strategic Egyptian policy, but Vietnam won't support the Soviets in what would ammount to a war for the survival of the current Vietnamese government?


OOC: France has Czech mercenaries but that does not mean that the Czech nation supports France. That is different from the other examples concerning annexation of NPC's. I think that there should be a clear a consistent manner in dealing with NPC's but I did not realize that you annexed Vietnam and controlled their government. I guess that it comes back to the consensus idea again.

I am just calling it like I see it. I may have creeped into IC a little there with making it sound like I was giving a speech or something, but that is exactly what happened, even OOC. Quinntonia backed down in Libya for purely OOC reasons. I thought that the tossing about of nukes was going to mean the downfall of meaningful RP in AMW and so I backed off, even thought it was perhaps not what I would have done IC. I wanted to give everyone a chance to work out how we were going to deal with the WMD situation, and I think that is was you and I that came to the agreement that solved it. You know:

“No one uses them, we all know they exist, but they will only be used in response to an attack, and since no one will use them anyways, that will never happen, now we can go back to merrily shooting at each other with conventional means.”

As far as speaking for NPC governments, I never objected to RPing an NPC government in time of war, and that happens all the time. And I do apologize if I either misunderstood or something, but you stated the case yourself. Those nations annexed/invaded nations in the course of regular RP. Now, they RP that nation, that is how it has worked from the beginning. Complaining that you can’t control NPC nations “just because they aren’t mine, how dare you place your western capitalistic ideation of ownership on me, man!” does not hold a lot of water in my books.

As for nations that have disappeared, I don’t know that we can speak for them at all. This has happened before, and in every single case, we have always had them go insular and not get involved in world affairs beyond perhaps “PC agreed upon trade benefits” and so on. So, in this case an every other one I would say that this is unacceptable. For instance, Quinntonia suddenly posting troop support from Canada would be unacceptable, we just kind of ignore the Hudecians until someone comes to play them again I would say that we stick to precedent. So, in the case of say, Vietnam, if they are being directly invaded, I would welcome BG playing them, if I do question why everyone that he supports is so rabidly Communist. If BG gets into a war, then Vietnam sits it out, perhaps supplying arms and supplies, but that is all.

As for big name PCs like AC and NA, I think the same would have to apply, for the major reason that someone else could just walk in and make a claim against that territory. We should treat that territory much like it is, as NPC territory. I don’t really see any other way to fairly deal with this.

I am not making this up, we don’t have an AMW Constitution, but we do have precedent, and I think that this is how it has been done in the past.

As for my threats, remember, defensive war, I don’t really have to get that close to India, I could just sit back and sink anything that tries to cross the Indian Ocean.

Anyhoo, I can’t be arsed to continue, see ya.

WWJD
Amen.

Quinnt, NG did take control of Italy...

The Soviets would still be warey of paying this, 'multinational' while it is under such suspicious control. The Egyptians are saving money on security... by losing de facto control of their own canal to a bunch of mercenaries? To a foreign military? And they are... losing billions in profits, to some multi-national? Egypt is taxing the company? Or what? And even if so, wouldn't they just be happier taking the profits rather than a taxable percentage of them? I'm still not sure exactly what is being done and why... and the Soviets still don't trust the set-up.

As to Q, well, we're not exactly going to be worried about you becoming involved defensively in a war that doesn't otherwise involve you, are we?

"Hey, let's not-attack the US!"
"Okay, but won't they defend themselves?"
"Uh oh!"

I can see us losing a lot of ships and planes that way.

Oh, sorry, there's no specific Namibia thread, it has mostly been in the Dark Continent thing, I think. And I don't dispute the likelihood of Roycelandian attempts to interrupt Soviet ambition in the region. We're already looking at the collapse of AfCom influence in Angola and the possible break-up of the United African Republics of Lusaka.

We could start a thread for Sub Saharan Africa, if you like. Lots of chaos already on, there.

Sounds like an excellent plan, an SSA thread. I'm prepared to leave AfCom alone and assume life there goes on as normal, but we really can't sit back and let the Geletians annex Namibia without a fight, you understand...

Quinnt, NG did take control of Italy...

I know, I am not supportive of that either. And BG, the defensive actions will include the Suez. I think I mentioned that in my above post.

WWJD
Amen.

I wouldn't expect anything less, Royce.

Though, I suppose I should say, much as Roycelandia maintains that half of the UAR is actually Roycelandian, the Soviet line is that Namibia is in no way being annexed. Practically, of course, it is under occupation, but that is supposed to be incidental to the West African conflict and the forces there are not officially occupation forces.

GSIC is helping local communist organisations to round-up right-wingers and 'party communists', obviously, and is partly responsible for establishing social-education centres for those detained.

Darn... we knew the bloody Indians would be as bad as the League once they got out there.

Probably shouldn't have let the Namibians in Strainist cellular service offshoots strut around flaunting their silk shirts and fancy MMORPGs. It'll be the camps for them now for sure, and there's little we can do about it given present circumstances.

We need someone new to play bloody Egypt, we do. And news from NeoAnarchos... wasn't he involved with the squatter's movement in Amsterdam? I've lost track of how they were doing with keeping their housing open. But thats another matter for another time. Or at least another thread...

Yeah, Tias would be a great help about now, hey.

On the one hand the Soviets would be glad to see NA strong again, on the other we'd probably run-into AfCom forces in Angola before long.

Swings and roundabouts.

Except not, because frick knows where he is.

The guy probably got himself arrested or something.


There are no Strainists in social-education facilities!

(Either they've had it knocked out of them, or they weren't real Strainists to begin with ;) )