NationStates Jolt Archive

Nova Aquaria's Armed Forces
(As of 12/16/06)
Peacetime Average Total Fighting Men Count (2.5% + 2.5 Million: 4,500,000)
War Time: 6,900,000 (5.0% + 2.5 million, the Military is a large source of jobs for Nova Aquaria)

Branches:


Imperial Navy
*25% of Military's Manpower, 750,000 Fighting Men
*10 "Montana" Battleships
*5 "Imperiala" Battleships
*10 Heavy CVN-21 Aircraft Carriers
*6 Cruisers
*12 Zumwalt Destroyers
*1000 F-22s
*2000 XNBL-2s
*200 DB-1s
*800 small Littoral combat escort ships
*15 nuclear submarines
*4 833 "Ballista" Subs




Emperor's Army
*Ten Equal Divisions
*Ten Divides in each division
*Ten Companies within a division
*4,500 T-90 Tanks
*4,000 Leopard 2 Tanks
*2,500 M1A2 Tanks
*2,000 M12s
*1,000 Mil Mi-24 Helicopters
*500 Kamov Ka-52 Helicopters
*500 Agusta A129 Mangusta Helicopters
*800 HAL Light Combat Helicopters
*5,000 Transport Ships




Imperial Airforce
*30% of Manpower, 1,500,000
*100 Stealth YB-49 Bombers
*500 F22s Fighters
*300 A10s
*1,200 F-35s
*100 Lockheed C-5 Galaxy Transport Aircraft
*100 A310 MRTT
*5 Imperial Air Force 1 747s
*100 FB-22
*1000 "Imperiala" Fighters


Imperial Strategic Missile System
*Several hundred platforms
* 12/2/06 Arsenal totals:
*600 1 MT ICBMs
*900 5 MT ICBMs
*750 750 KT ICBMs
*800 8 MT ICMBs
*1000 500 KT ICBMs




***Additional Notes: lots of this machinery and men were donationed by the Gracious Scandinvans, along with 500 billion USD. Statistics and Manpower as of 12/2/06. Edited every 7 days.***

OOC: No comments :( About how fast should this grow, manpowerwise, per day?

OOC: Looks good. Heh. My Military during peace-time is almost as large as your whole country. During war time it is over 1 and 1/2 times larger. Heh.

The Ch'onma-ho is a North Korean T-62. If you got that from the Wikipedia article, I'm the person who wrote that article. Ch'onma-ho isn't very accurate (the Ch'onma-ho I can actually refer to a ripped-off T-62 or a T-62 which was purchased off Russia at a later date) and you'll probably want to rename that to 'T-62'. Unless, of course, you're using an upgraded Ch'onma-ho. The question remains, why so many different types of tanks? Each tank is incompatible with the other, and a lot of them preform the same jobs. Having many types of different tanks will increase the logistical incompatibility and will make it harder to repair each one because you have to supply spare parts to so many different types.

We're allies... wouldn't you WANT me to be strong, friend:)

The Ch'onma-ho is a North Korean T-62. If you got that from the Wikipedia article, I'm the person who wrote that article. Ch'onma-ho isn't very accurate (the Ch'onma-ho I can actually refer to a ripped-off T-62 or a T-62 which was purchased off Russia at a later date) and you'll probably want to rename that to 'T-62'. Unless, of course, you're using an upgraded Ch'onma-ho. The question remains, why so many different types of tanks? Each tank is incompatible with the other, and a lot of them preform the same jobs. Having many types of different tanks will increase the logistical incompatibility and will make it harder to repair each one because you have to supply spare parts to so many different types.

Well, each is good for a different jobs. There is such a big tank:military size ration that there's more than enough tanks in each section to succeed in an invasion. And I figured, when I get biggerm those numbers will grow, and I'll have a giant variety of tanks in high numbers *mwahahaa*

Well, each is good for a different jobs. There is such a big tank:military size ration that there's more than enough tanks in each section to succeed in an invasion. And I figured, when I get biggerm those numbers will grow, and I'll have a giant variety of tanks in high numbers *mwahahaa*

What purpose does the Type 96 tank serve? The purpose of the Type 96 is the same as the Type 99, and the Type 99 does it better (which is why the Chinese have considered the Type 99 their main battle tank, not the Type 96). The Russian T-90 and Ukrainian T-84 are all in the same weight class, and are all designed for the same purpose (main battle tank). The Ariete is an obsolete tank by modern standards (as compared to the Type 99/Leopard 2/M1/K1/K2/Challenger 2/T-90/T-84, et cetera) and it was designed for the same role, as well - there's just better tanks for said role, now. The Merkava, once again, designed for the same role, although it's in a different weight class. AFAIK, the Sholef isn't a tank, it's a self-propelled artillery piece designed on the Merkava's chassis which hasn't entered production, IIRC.

It would be better to have one main battle tank in the collective amount that you have there. In other words, you have a total of 12,000 tanks (not counting the Sholefs, since they aren't tanks) - it would be far better if those 12,000 tanks were of a single class, given that the ones you have now are all for the same role (main battle tank). The reason some countries have multiple types of tanks for the same class is because they can't afford to upgrade all their armor - you aren't upgrading anything, you are simply building a ton of armor of different types. Furthermore, you are mixing incompatible tanks with each other. You cannot repair a T-90 with spare parts that belong to a T-84, for example. You can't fire the same ammunition from a T-90 than you can from a Merkava (125mm versus 120mm). Furthermore, the T-90 and T-84 might require different ammunition depending on which T-84 it is (even though they use the same caliber gun).

You are single handedly defeating the purpose of the main battle tank by employing so many different types of them in the same armed forces.

I will change it then. I have a main tank though- the T-90. It's an awesome little Indian piece of pimpness.

I will change it then. I have a main tank though- the T-90. It's an awesome little Indian piece of pimpness.

It's actually Russian. The T-90 Brahman developed by India is just a variation of the Russian T-90, and AFAIK is more or less the same. However, the DRDO has declared that it can't build the originally envisioned number of tanks (1,000+), so the Indians are importing another ~310 from Russia. The only indigenously built Indian tank is the Arjun and its status is up in the air, to be honest; some thing it was canceled, others think that they will still deliver to the Indian army by 2009 (124). DRDO also tried to put an Arjun turret on a T-72 hull (Tank-ex) but that apparently failed, as well.

But this is NS. Russia and India aren't here, but the tank is.

Far far too big even with donated assitance.

In terms of Spending power you have about 8% of the American Defense budget which wouldn't be able to cover all this equipment (yours stands around $33billion whilst the US has $441billion) and even with assitance your budget won't even cover your personnel costs let alone the maintiance and operational costs.

Now leaving the size issue aisde you still have soem very large issues:
Navy: far far too top heavy, your Battleships and carriers don't have enough escorts. Assumign you deploy the battleships and carriers together in combined battle groups you really need at least 1 cruiser for each group, perferably 2-3 and at least 4 destroyers

If you want a quick recomendation i would say go with 5-6 battle groups each with:
1 Battleship
1 carrier
3 Cruisers
5 Destroyers
2 Nuclear submariens (attack/hunter killer submarines)

Army: OMG! so many different types of tanks, you seriously need to rationalise the number of types in service, i would say keep the T-90s as they are your most numerous type and supplement them either with the Type-99s (compatable gun) or the Arietes (most common western tank you posses).
If you are including helicopters as part of your army then your mangustas and Druvs (HAL light helos) should be part of it, only CSAR and transport helos should be assigned to the airforce, or for simplicity's sake just create a multi service joitn helicopter force (you make no real mention of obvious naval helicopters, which you will need).

Airforce:
Far too many F-15s in relation to other aircraft, they are really not needed with the existance of plentiful F-22s and the secodn string fighter role would be fufilled much more cost effectively by the F-16s. On your transports, galaxy's are fine but you really need smaller transports like hercules and Globemasters and more efficient jet liners (KC-10 etc) to suplement them, you also need soem form of air to air refueling tanker which could be combiend with oen of your additional transport aircraft.

What's the most modern (or best) main battle tank in existence that us civilians know about? It's the T-90, right?

What's the most modern (or best) main battle tank in existence that us civilians know about? It's the T-90, right?

The Chinese Type-99 is liekly a better tank and as for best tank in the world, it is liekly tied between the Challenger 2, Leopard 2 and Abrams although most woudl eventually put the latest upgraded Leopard 2s at the top.

What's the most modern (or best) main battle tank in existence that us civilians know about? It's the T-90, right?

That's up for debate. Russian sources claim the T-90 is better protected than the M1A2 by a look at this graph:

http://pdfdirectory.modernwarstudies.net/images/armor%20values%20russian.gif

Unfortunately, the M1A2's maximum protection is closer to ~980RHAe from other sources I have. And I don't see how there was this much protection increase between the T-72 and the T-90 if the T-90 is an upgraded T-72 with some newer systems, and it only gains 2 tonnes in weight. I'm under the firm belief that the protection of the T-90 is inflated and the protection of the M1A2 understated. The T-90 is obviously not as good as they make it out to be if the Russians are looking forward to replacing it as soon as possible with the T-95 (although there has been no public display of this tank, or no true information, yet).

My personal vote goes to the Merkava IV, but on NS it goes to my own tank. ;)

Hey, by the way, when will the T-95 be available?

If you want an honest opinion... your military seems completely unrealistic for the size of your nation. Even if every piece of military equipment you have was given to you for free, your defense budget is far from enough to keep all that stuff operational. I'm guessing you would required 700-900 billion in foreign aid every year to keep your army afloat. That is assuming you don't acquire any more stuff.

Edit: Upon further review I think 700-900 billion is probably a bit conservative.

I know, but I've recieved trillions in USD of aid. TONS of the machinery was donated.

I know, but I've recieved trillions in USD of aid. TONS of the machinery was donated.
its not the equipment procurement costs that are killign you it is the ongoing maintiance and personnel costs that will eb the major issue.
If you want a first rate, well paid, well trained military you might be looking at $50,000-80,000 per man which in your case would be a yearly personnel budget of $125billion-$200billion of course you can economise here but it will adversely affect the quality of your armed forces. Your maintiance costs will likely be of a similar figure so you could be spending clsoe to $0.5trillion every single year without even taking procurmeent, R&D, deployment costs or anything else into the equation. To put that into perspective, your military costs exceed your nation's entire GDP and even with constant gifts is likely not sustainable.

Hey, by the way, when will the T-95 be available?

According to Russian sources, 2008.

*10,000 small escort ships
*10 nuclear submarines
*4 833 "Ballista" Subs
Um, wtf? How small are we talking? You do realise that the small escort ships alone would have to be like the size of a patrol boat, and you would require about your entire force of naval personnel to crew them. And what about these subs? How large are they? Say a crew of 100, that's almost 500,000 men to crew your subs.

That's 4 "833" subs.

That's 4 "833" subs.
... ooh. Riiight. Sorry. But what about these light escorts?

Updated. Very little equipment gain, much more detailed, more effecient.

[CENTER]Nova Aquaria's Armed Forces
(As of 12/2/06)
Peacetime Average Total Fighting Men Count (2.5% + 2.5 Million: 3,500,000)
War Time: 4,500,000 (5.0% + 2.5 million, the Military is a large source of jobs for Nova Aquaria)

Imperial Strategic Missile System
*Several hundred platforms
* 12/2/06 Arsenal totals:
*100 1 MT ICBMs
*150 5 MT ICBMs
*50 750 KT ICBMs
*100 8 MT ICMBs
*80 500 KT ICBMs

Simply put, there is just no way.

You have a population of 40,000,000 people. 40,000,000 * .05= 2,000,000.

That said, that 2 million encompasses your entire military size...including but not limited to people who are actually able to fight...military chefs, military janitors, military people who fix tanks, military accountants...etc.

Generally speaking, your actual fighting military is 1/10 of your entire military size. So you actually can have 200,000 fighting men.

And c'mon! 40 million people, and you have an arsenal of nukes. Are you kidding me?

To: Nova Aquarian Government
Re: Foreclosure Notice

You have been operating a military far beyond your means to support for six years now. Given your military budget and the donations you have received, our financial gurus estimate you are $3.4 trillion in debt. This is several times greater than your national GDP.

Your nervous creditors are cutting you off, and demand payment within 90 days. Failure to pay your debt will result in foreclosure. Your assets (including your military hardware) will be confiscated and sold to the highest bidder.

Good day.



OOC: Noobs don't get to use nukes. If you are going to use people's storefronts to do your military research, it would be nice if you bought something from them.

Um, I don't have anything I bought from you. That was a major MODE. You can't say my "creditors" are being cut off and nervous, you are not one of them. And Israel has nukes, and they have less than 7 million people. :P And I reduced numbers. So, looks like you're wrong :P

Um, I don't have anything I bought from you. That was a major MODE. You can't say my "creditors" are being cut off and nervous, you are not one of them. And Israel has nukes, and they have less than 7 million people. :P And I reduced numbers. So, looks like you're wrong :P

OOC: Yeah, but they're Jews. We all know how Jews are with money. They can pull it off.

OOC: Yeah, but they're Jews. We all know how Jews are with money. They can pull it off.

Yes, and I'm part jewish. You know how I am with money.

So I can pull it off.

And you're a nazi. You know how nazis are with ignorance.

To: Nova Aquarian Government
Re: Foreclosure Notice

We see that you have downsized your military since our first foreclosure notice. This is a step in the right direction, but your spending still exceeds your budget by a large amount. Your 3.5 million active duty soldiers alone generate expenses significantly greater than your military budget can afford.

At this point, even the complete dismantling of your military combined with the sale of your mlitary assets would be insufficient to pay off your debt. To avoid foreclosure, it would seem you have little choice but to go to your allies and beg for more money.

Foreclosure is a nasty business. We recommend you do everything possible to avoid it. If you must dismantle your military, sell your millitary hardware, and sell off chunks of government property; we recommend doing so.

OOC: And how exactly are you going to make me forclose, mode? I'm in no debt to you, bute me :P

To: Nova Aquarian Government
Re: Foreclosure Notice

We see that you have downsized your military since our first foreclosure notice. This is a step in the right direction, but your spending still exceeds your budget by a large amount. Your 3.5 million active duty soldiers alone generate expenses significantly greater than your military budget can afford.

At this point, even the complete dismantling of your military combined with the sale of your mlitary assets would be insufficient to pay off your debt. To avoid foreclosure, it would seem you have little choice but to go to your allies and beg for more money.

Foreclosure is a nasty business. We recommend you do everything possible to avoid it. If you must dismantle your military, sell your millitary hardware, and sell off chunks of government property; we recommend doing so.

Nova Aquaria is under Demaray's- and several nations 10 times+ bigger than you's protection. It has recieved 100 billion USD in aide. We expcet none of it payed back.

To avoid a good nuking, please do not do anything to Nova Aquaria.

--Emperor Boran IV of Demaray

Nova Aquaria is under Demaray's- and several nations 10 times+ bigger than you's protection. It has recieved 100 billion USD in aide. We expcet none of it payed back.

To avoid a good nuking, please do not do anything to Nova Aquaria.

--Emperor Boran IV of Demaray

OOC: First, that message wasnt directed at you, second, he didnt threaten Nova Aquaria, third, if you try anything against Dartia, you'll have to take me on too.

EDIT

Oh, I forgot, and, dont use nukes, else, you are probably get nuked back by several NEA and GASN nations.

OOC: First, that message wasnt directed at you, second, he didnt threaten Nova Aquaria, third, if you try anything against Dartia, you'll have to take me on too.

OOC: That's not cool. My nation is more or less relying on yours for arms. Perhaps an alliance between our two nations are in order?

OOC: That's not cool. My nation is more or less relying on yours for arms. Perhaps an alliance between our two nations are in order?

I was talking to Demaray, as for the alliance, ICily, you dont respect human rights and are, well, a nazi, and my people dont like nazis nor human rights violators and such.

I was talking to Demaray, as for the alliance, ICily, you dont respect human rights and are, well, a nazi, and my people dont like nazis nor human rights violators and such.

Would you consider a pact with me? I am very anti-nazi.

OOC: And how exactly are you going to make me forclose, mode? I'm in no debt to you, bute me :P

Perhaps you misunderstand, you should maybe consider it a slightly more interesting way of saying the same thing everyone else has said i.e. you numers are far too high, using a fixed percentage plus a huge fixed number might make some kind of sense when you get into the multiple billion population range but at the moment it is cripplign you as your fixed 2.5million in peace time acounts for 6.25% of your population which is more than enough to start causing economic difficulties. Of course if you totally ignore things like your nations "true" NS stats then it might be plausible using some fantasical justifcation.

Really if you want a truely effective means of estiamting your armed forces, take your NS stats defence budget (currently $81.33billion) divide it by 4 to gain your "personnel budget" (with some rounding we now come to a figure of $20.3billion) and then divide this figure by the per personnel cost, which would for a "better than the US" army likely be about $100,000, for "US equivelent" about $80,000, for "average roughly NATO capable" say $60,000 and for dirt cheap korean cannon fodder about $20,000

Thus for high end personnel spending you could afford total personnel of 203,000(0.5%), for US equiv: about 260,000 (0.65%), for average: 340,000 (0.85%)and for cannon fodder: 1.02million (2.55%)
(percentage marks are military size as a percentage of your total pop of 40million and seem pretty accurate)

I freely admit that the above worked examples are based on a loose series of facts and assumptions and as such might be dreadfully wrong, but at any rate it does give a better image of affordablility than the simple "population percentage" system.

Updated