NationStates Jolt Archive

Move the discussions here please.

Ackistan post some damage now we've been fair and square with ours.

Ackistan post some damage now we've been fair and square with ours.

I dont think his country has anything left to be destroyed.

I dont think his country has anything left to be destroyed.

Well he should at least post my several trilliontons of nuclearage did.

I dont think his country has anything left to be destroyed.



So..Ackistan has no troops deployed afar, no foreign holdings, no regional outposts, nothing of the sort?

So..Ackistan has no troops deployed afar, no foreign holdings, no regional outposts, nothing of the sort?

He has some in Africa in Madagascar, I sent weapons at them as well from what stuff I had left in Africa.

AMF, I'd like to apologize for my ooc post in your thread..It sounded like Ackistan was claiming that stealth equates to invincibility, which it does not..

It shall not happen again.

Ackistan, the damage has been reasonable. Again, nations in NS basically expect hundreds of thousands of nukes to be thrown in exchanges. A few thousand is a paltry number, I doubt I would let any get through with such few numbers against me, unless it was concentrated on one of my smaller colonies or whatnot.

TWSP, you might just want to back-off from Ackistani aid. Nothing personal, but IC, if you started getting more involved, and AMF had a problem... we could have problems.

So Transylvania took practically no damage from my last attack, and 90% of Clandonia Prime's casualties are people that he doesn't even have?

If you want the wipe out post, I want better damage.

That last Translyvania post was right out of "how to godmod 101". Hell, he even told me what my casualties were.

So Transylvania took practically no damage from my last attack, and 90% of Clandonia Prime's casualties are people that he doesn't even have?

If you want the wipe out post, I want better damage.

That last Translyvania post was right out of "how to godmod 101". Hell, he even told me what my casualties were.

Ackistan, what exactly do you expect? Not all nations are suicidal like you are. You expect them to take enormous damage, despite comprehensive ABM systems meant to defend from much worse. He lost four major cities, and a large amount of people. As for saying your casualties, I didn't see that, so I won't comment.

As for CP, as long as he RP's the economic damage for losing so many slaves, I don't see a problem. Its not simple to replace hundreds of millions of slave workers, that shit would take a decade even for a nation like me.

AMF, please address my post on the first and fourth pages.

Also, too bad nothing of Ackistan is left. I would of loved to slam my satellites into his soil. Either that or test my "Tactical" weaponary..HELL! Transylvania would be able to test his DCRCs!

Ackistan I have said this before, and I will say this again: Stealth does not mean that a aircraft is unstoppable.

In fact the Spirit is very vunerable if any of the following are present: Massed, overlapping, high power radar sites (which I would assume that JWolf has), high powered areal radars, and people with good eye sight.

Sending in un escorted B-2's as a last ditch attempt to strike at him wouldn't have netted you anything against a well thought out defense, even with technology awailable today, other than the entire bomber group blasted out of the sky.

So Transylvania took practically no damage from my last attack, and 90% of Clandonia Prime's casualties are people that he doesn't even have?

If you want the wipe out post, I want better damage.

That last Translyvania post was right out of "how to godmod 101". Hell, he even told me what my casualties were.

You don’t think losing power in a lot of my land damage. It not damage that you can see, but it is damage. Like the others have said, my ABM systems can take out 5%. And out of 275 ICBM fired at me in your second attack, only 13 can make it through. So, I made it 15 EMP ICBM made it through.

I beg to differ. Clandonia Prime is suicidal. He has used nukes and makes threats with them all the time. None of the people he threatens ever consent to it or want to role-play with him.

If he wants to go around threatening to wipe out other nations, he should be willing to take the damage when he gets targeted himself.

Also, you and I both know he won't role-play the economic consequences. He didn't last time he was nuked. Saying he lost slaves he didn't have is just an attempt to look like he is taking damage without actually doing it.

You don’t think losing power in a lot of my land damage. It not damage that you can see, but it is damage. Like the others have said, my ABM systems can take out 5%. And out of 275 ICBM fired at me in your second attack, only 13 can make it through. So, I made it 15 EMP ICBM made it through.

Hospital patients might die, car accidents galore, factories shut down, it could spark a new great depression that will last perhaps a decade before full recover.

The Transylvania has probably lost the ability to wage 'hard' war for decades.

I beg to differ. Clandonia Prime is suicidal. He has used nukes and makes threats with them all the time. None of the people he threatens ever consent to it or want to role-play with him.

If he wants to go around threatening to wipe out other nations, he should be willing to take the damage when he gets targeted himself.

Also, you and I both know he won't role-play the economic consequences. He didn't last time he was nuked. Saying he lost slaves he didn't have is just an attempt to look like he is taking damage without actually doing it.

He is taking damage. He's been a wild-card, definetally, but he hasn't been firing real nukes at anyone. There's a big difference between trying to scare people, and actually trying to get into nuclear war.

And yeah, I doubt he'll RP the economic damage, but taking damage and acknowledging its real effects on his economy is two different things. Get mad at him for that, not for not taking damage.

I beg to differ. Clandonia Prime is suicidal. He has used nukes and makes threats with them all the time. None of the people he threatens ever consent to it or want to role-play with him.

If he wants to go around threatening to wipe out other nations, he should be willing to take the damage when he gets targeted himself.

Also, you and I both know he won't role-play the economic consequences. He didn't last time he was nuked. Saying he lost slaves he didn't have is just an attempt to look like he is taking damage without actually doing it.

Listen here, I have never ever nuked or had a war on the scale you just did! I have told you before and in the many threads of what my country is like, we live underground and in sub-terrain bunkers after Blackhelms nukes, I think I've done preaty well RPing the damage that you have caused to my economy and military.

You don’t think losing power in a lot of my land damage. It not damage that you can see, but it is damage. Like the others have said, my ABM systems can take out 5%. And out of 275 ICBM fired at me in your second attack, only 13 can make it through. So, I made it 15 EMP ICBM made it through.

15 would be 120 warheads.

Why did only EMP ones make it through?

I can understand losing some bombers, but losing every single one before a single bomb was dropped?

All my anti-satellite weapons, which were standing by to attack your satellites from the time I made my very first post only managed to take out 2 satellites, which had conveniently already fired their missiles?

15 would be 120 warheads.

Why did only EMP ones make it through?

Because I said so. It was my choice in what got in and I thought EMP would be the best.

I can understand losing some bombers, but losing every single one before a single bomb was dropped?

Because you are flying in unguarded into a hornet nest of anti-air power. That is why. Like Carbandia said ‘Stealth does not mean that a aircraft is unstoppable.’ I have learned that, so I always have fighters fly with my bombers, both stealth and not stealth.

All my anti-satellite weapons, which were standing by to attack your satellites from the time I made my very first post only managed to take out 2 satellites, which had conveniently already fired their missiles?

Did I say two? I don’t think I did. And the ones that launched the ‘Rods of God’ are the ones you knew about. My satellites don’t have markings on them or my satellites with weapons don’t have marks.

Post losses, Ackistan.

Nope.

If I post damage like you guys do, I will just lose three cities and a few satellites (which have conveniently already fired their munitions).

I am having a good laugh imagining this scenario:

Ackistani #1: Hey, we just detected Transylvania launching a satellite.
Ackistani #2: Hey, we are tracking a new satellite in orbit. It isn't marked. I wonder who it belongs to?
Ackistani #1: Beats me, duh

Because I said so. It was my choice in what got in and I thought MP would be the best.
Actually, that would be determining losses for someone else:

a) The missiles belong to Ackistan;
b) You are using an ABM system to take them out;
c) You determine how many are lost and how many (and which ones) get through.

Let's switch a few words here:

a) The soldiers belong to Ackistan.
b) You are using guns to take them out;
c) You determine how many are lost and how many (and which ones) survive.

So basically, as long as Ackistan is reasonable, he can decide how many missiles survived, and how many got through. If he is unreasonable, you can ask a neutral party to do it. But you cannot do it yourself. It's a convention of roleplay.


Also, AMF, what is Dreadfire's policy on irreverence? ;)

Post losses or you will be ignored. I can’t help it that you send in 31 B-2s without fighter escorts at my lands and thought they could get in without me knowing it. If you send in one or two, then yes they could. But no, you send in a large number that I could pick up better.

Because I said so. It was my choice in what got in and I thought MP would be the best.

So using your technique of taking damage... Would it be alright for my ABM systems to take out every missile headed towards my homeland, and take all the hits on my colony?

Ackistan, please read and respond. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11951825#post11951825)

Actually, that would be determining losses for someone else:

a) The missiles belong to Ackistan;
b) You are using an ABM system to take them out;
c) You determine how many are lost and how many (and which ones) get through.

Let's switch a few words here:

a) The soldiers belong to Ackistan.
b) You are using guns to take them out;
c) You determine how many are lost and how many (and which ones) survive.

So basically, as long as Ackistan is reasonable, he can decide how many missiles survived, and how many got through. If he is unreasonable, you can ask a neutral party to do it. But you cannot do it yourself. It's a convention of roleplay.

After he fires them and they get near my nation, he has no power over them. It is up to me to role-play how many survive and what types survive. Everybody does it.

Now if it was fighter or bombers, then I have power over them. All I did was tell him that none would survive because none would survive against thousands of SAM sites and thousands of Flak cannons.

So using your technique of taking damage... Would it be alright for my ABM systems to take out every missile headed towards my homeland, and take all the hits on my colony?

Listen mate, you and me joined up at the same time but I spend a lot more on defence. Trans is a vetran and large nation, he has developed the stuff that can bring ICBM's down.

You can't! You spend 400 billion on defence, I sent several thousand missiles from my many fleets, all the Dominions space stuff before your Yallies could hit them, a good ammount of my surviving mobile nuclear forces and lots of silo based stuff. I can tell you wern't expecting this at all as now your everyones new nasty person.

So using your technique of taking damage... Would it be alright for my ABM systems to take out every missile headed towards my homeland, and take all the hits on my colony?

Nope, because only 95% can took out and your ABM were took out or most of them were took out by CP’s first attack with his navy, Chellis gave us their locations.

Nope, because only 95% can took out and your ABM were took out by CP’s first attack with his navy, Chellis gave us their locations.

Don't roleplay Ackistan's damage for him.

Don't roleplay Ackistan's damage for him.

OOC thread!!! Read CP’s attack post. We have their locations and CP hit the hard with the rest of Ack’s stuff.

After he fires them and they get near my nation, he has no power over them. It is up to me to role-play how many survive and what types survive. Everybody does it.
Ummm... what?

You can alter the flight path of an ICBM in the air, or cause it to self-destruct. Missiles cost money the same as tanks do, and are deployed to places the same way tanks are to kill stuff. If you retain control over a tank, even an unmanned tank, you can retain control over a missile.

And I didn't know "everyone" determined how many survive and what types thereof survived. In my RP circles people generally don't. You're saying "everyone" is godmodding... and that's no reason for you to do it.


Now if it was fighter or bombers, then I have power over them. All I did was tell him that none would survive because none would survive against thousands of SAM sites and thousands of Flak cannons.
Well, saying that kind of thing would generally spark more OOC hostility than just shooting them down with the SAMs and flak cannons. I think you've been around long enough to know these things, and maybe it's different in your experience or opinion. However, in my experience this can develop an OOC enmity as well as an IC one, which is not what you want. All of my worst enemies are nations for whom I hold a deep mutual respect, or I couldn't bring myself to roleplay with them.

Yo we ever going to get damage Ackistan?

Nope, because only 95% can took out and your ABM were took out or most of them were took out by CP’s first attack with his navy, Chellis gave us their locations.

Double standard much?

"I can state losses for you because all ABM systems are only 95% effective (which isn't true, by the way; some are 90% effective, some 98%, some 50%...), but you can't state losses for me because your ABM systems are destroyed." (Did Ackistan ever post his ABM systems being destroyed, by the way? I'd like to see a link.)

You're stating that, if you fired 10,000 ICBMs at me, and I used a combination of Brilliant Pebbles, CAMERA-launched ABMs, and random other technobabble and said that only 500 ICBMs survived, and they were all duds, or malfunctioned due to electromagnetism in the atmosphere, or crashed into the sea by mistake because you misjudged the trajectory, or landed in areas that were completely uninhabited where they caused no damage whatsoever to my infrastructure?

Double standard much?

"I can state losses for you because all ABM systems are only 95% effective (which isn't true, by the way; some are 90% effective, some 98%, some 50%...), but you can't state losses for me because your ABM systems are destroyed." (Did Ackistan ever post his ABM systems being destroyed, by the way? I'd like to see a link.)

You're stating that, if you fired 10,000 ICBMs at me, and I used a combination of Brilliant Pebbles, CAMERA-launched ABMs, and random other technobabble and said that only 500 ICBMs survived, and they were all duds, or malfunctioned due to electromagnetism in the atmosphere, or crashed into the sea by mistake because you misjudged the trajectory, or landed in areas that were completely uninhabited where they caused no damage whatsoever to my infrastructure?


This was my point, just better put :D .

Sure I can. According to Transylvania, I can pick and choose where missiles strike in such a fashion as to make damage minimal.

So I got 1,000 missiles heading towards my homeland and Madagascar... I got to take at least 50. I suppose I should have three of my cities in Madagascar get hit by 17 nukes each.

Of course that makes no sense whatsoever, and doesn't resemble what you had in mind remotely. When dozens of my own missiles carrying hundreds of warheads beat your defenses, but only strike 3 cities, it puts me in a difficult position. Now I have to decide if I should make a ridiculous damage post myself or go another route.

Nope, because only 95% can took out and your ABM were took out or most of them were took out by CP’s first attack with his navy, Chellis gave us their locations.

What? Since when does Chellis know the locations of my ABM systems?

Yes, I found this odd that Transylvania posted lots of nukes hitting the same cities, each city only needs to be nuked once or twice before it's strategic value is gone, hence I think Ackistan should decide what of his missiles gets through and where, and the others take damage. And then vice-versa.

Sure I can. According to Transylvania, I can pick and choose where missiles strike in such a fashion as to make damage minimal.

So I got 1,000 missiles heading towards my homeland and Madagascar... I got to take at least 50. I suppose I should have three of my cities in Madagascar get hit by 17 nukes each.

Of course that makes no sense whatsoever, and doesn't resemble what you had in mind remotely. When dozens of my own missiles carrying hundreds of warheads beat your defenses, but only strike 3 cities, it puts me in a difficult position. Now I have to decide if I should make a ridiculous damage post myself or go another route.

I'm preaty sure I've fired more than 1000 at you, looking at the empty silos, SS-27 launchers and the empty tubes on my submarines...

I'm preaty sure I've fired more than 1000 at you, looking at the empty silos, SS-27 launchers and the empty tubes on my submarines...

But the point is valid.

What? Since when does Chellis know the locations of my ABM systems?

He help your nation and knows everything he placed there. He gave me everything.

Ooh, I know! Have them all hit an uninhabited city! Or a city that a megalomaniacal director had just constructed for a movie set! :D

Ummm... what?

You can alter the flight path of an ICBM in the air, or cause it to self-destruct. Missiles cost money the same as tanks do, and are deployed to places the same way tanks are to kill stuff. If you retain control over a tank, even an unmanned tank, you can retain control over a missile.

And I didn't know "everyone" determined how many survive and what types thereof survived. In my RP circles people generally don't. You're saying "everyone" is godmodding... and that's no reason for you to do it.

All Ack can do is turn them off or have them self-destruct. The missiles get near my land, I will have control over them. It’s the way I have seen people do it from the start of NS. I’m the one that gets to tell how many survive and that is 5% of the ICBMs because that is the best number that survive.

Then I picked where the best area to hurt me at. I picked three of my top cities to be leveled. And a lot of my nation in the dark. Ack knock power out in two full colonies .

Well, saying that kind of thing would generally spark more OOC hostility than just shooting them down with the SAMs and flak cannons. I think you've been around long enough to know these things, and maybe it's different in your experience or opinion. However, in my experience this can develop an OOC enmity as well as an IC one, which is not what you want. All of my worst enemies are nations for whom I hold a deep mutual respect, or I couldn't bring myself to roleplay with them.

The odds are this 31 bombers Vs. thousands of thousands of SAM sites and Anti-air guns. Think about it. I’m a big nations, don’t you think I have large anti-air defense system

But the point is valid.

No its not,

http://nstracker.retrogade.com/index.php?nation=clandonia_prime&nation2=Ackistan&nation3=The+Transylvania&nation4=&nation5=&nation6=

Look at the defence spending, Trans spends over 21 trillion, I spend over a trillion ackistan spends just over 400 billion.

Trans can afford a ub3r ABM system, Ackistan can not.

Let them all through, but have them land on a small stable somewhere in the country, which the residents have just left although the launches were mentioned far earlier.

No its not,

http://nstracker.retrogade.com/index.php?nation=clandonia_prime&nation2=Ackistan&nation3=The+Transylvania&nation4=&nation5=&nation6=

Look at the defence spending, Trans spends over 21 trillion, I spend over a trillion ackistan spends just over 400 billion.

Trans can afford a ub3r ABM system, Ackistan can not.

Do me a favour and read what I put next time, I'm sure you guys have great ABM yada yada, I'm far more concerned with the actual roleplay.

Even though all my big missiles carried 40 MT warheads, usually 8 of them on the orbital and silo stuff. The SS-27's carried smaller just less than a MT warheads. And the sub stuff is a mixture of up to 40 MT and no less than 500 KT. The biggest was the 100 MT shell I lobbed down from orbit for airburst explosion over his capital.

Sure I can. According to Transylvania, I can pick and choose where missiles strike in such a fashion as to make damage minimal.

Did I take minimal damage? Hell no. You leveled three of my top cites and everything in the surround area. You knocked the power out in two full controls. Knock power of a lot of land in Europe.

So I got 1,000 missiles heading towards my homeland and Madagascar... I got to take at least 50. I suppose I should have three of my cities in Madagascar get hit by 17 nukes each.

You got more then a 1000 missiles heading towards you.

Of course that makes no sense whatsoever, and doesn't resemble what you had in mind remotely. When dozens of my own missiles carrying hundreds of warheads beat your defenses, but only strike 3 cities, it puts me in a difficult position. Now I have to decide if I should make a ridiculous damage post myself or go another route.

Because I have more money to design better ABM defenses over your nation I picked three of five of my top cities to be wiped out the face of the Earth. That is not a ridiculous damage post.

Even though all my big missiles carried 40 MT warheads, usually 8 of them on the orbital and silo stuff. The SS-27's carried smaller just less than a MT warheads. And the sub stuff is a mixture of up to 40 MT and no less than 500 KT. The biggest was the 100 MT shell I lobbed down from orbit for airburst explosion over his capital.

Still missed the point, try again. What I am saying is that Trans shouldn't have decided what happened to Ackistan's bombers/missiles, and certainly shouldn't be lumping all of the hits onto just three cities.

Czardas makes it a lot clearer than I do, read his posts.

All Ack can do is turn them off or have them self-destruct. The missiles get near my land, I will have control over them. It’s the way I have seen people do it from the start of NS. I’m the one that gets to tell how many survive and that is 5% of the ICBMs because that is the best number that survive.
You've been here since the start of NS? Your nation is February 2005. (No disrespect actually, I'm just curious; I'm a May or June '04 player myself, whenever my school let out that year.)


Then I picked where the best area to hurt me at. I picked three of my top cities to be leveled. And a lot of my nation in the dark. Ack knock power out in two full colonies .
Well, good for you; but the way you're putting your argument it sounds as though you can say all of the missiles hit a mountain 10000000 miles from any human habitation and blew it up instead without causing any adverse effects to any living being. Meh.



The odds are this 31 bombers Vs. thousands of thousands of SAM sites and Anti-air guns. Think about it. I’m a big nations, don’t you think I have large anti-air defense system
I can see that you have a large anti-air defense system. A lot of people do. (I use my air force for that, which I claim to be one of the best in the world because I've worked on getting it like that for almost two years; but I do have one of the most extensive anti-ship systems for any nation my size, including literally millions of missiles.) But instead of bragging about it, just use it, and then borrow this argument for when/if Ackistan complains about it.

Also, don't pull out NSTracker stats, as they really tell one nothing. Questers spends about eight times (http://nstracker.retrogade.com/index.php?nation=questers&nation2=doomingsland) what Doomingsland does on national defence, but Doom still beat him repeatedly, and with much better equipment and training, too. I've won battles against nations with defence budgets over 30 times larger than mine. So don't use these stats, as most of them are guesstimates pulled from the calc's creator's rear end.

No its not,

http://nstracker.retrogade.com/index.php?nation=clandonia_prime&nation2=Ackistan&nation3=The+Transylvania&nation4=&nation5=&nation6=

Look at the defence spending, Trans spends over 21 trillion, I spend over a trillion ackistan spends just over 400 billion.

Trans can afford a ub3r ABM system, Ackistan can not.

And here is the shocker guys, I used my law and order budget with my defense budget. The rest for it because I can. It’s my nation and I do whatever I want.

Ackistan, please read and respond. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11951825#post11951825)

I am going to state here and now that, since consensus seems to be that this thread was not really closed, (and I'm not saying this will definitely happen) but if Ackistan does not post a response to this attack (I mean ever, as in within days, not anything silly like 'in the next five minutes') I will simply assume it was successful. All of it. And that I own that Madagascar now.

Fair IC actions, Fair IC reactions, Fair IC consequences.

I am going to state here and now that, since consensus seems to be that this thread was not really closed, (and I'm not saying this will definitely happen) but if Ackistan does not post a response to this attack (I mean ever, as in within days, not anything silly like 'in the next five minutes') I will simply assume it was successful. All of it. And that I own that Madagascar now.

Fair IC actions, Fair IC reactions, Fair IC consequences.

I would wait for the radiation to die down first lol. I nuked there....

And here is the shocker guys, I used my law and order budget with my defense budget. The rest for it because I can. It’s my nation and I do whatever I want.

Claiming approximately 45% of your GDP as allocated to your military leaves 55% for everything else, or a GDP per capita of around B$13,440 for your citizens per year. Think about how much you pay per year to live at whatever standard you live. And that B$13,440 is going to be used also for government-provided services like healthcare, roads, urbanisation, welfare, education and the like, which might leave your citizens a few thousand dollars over per year for food, luxuries, housing and the like. Additionally, corporations would have very little money to manufacture things, leaving your far too massive military with not enough equipment (you don't think titanium alloys and guns grow on trees, do you? They have to be created. That costs money. For national defence the government subsidizes corporations to allow them to do that.) Sorry, but I don't think that would work very well.

You've been here since the start of NS? Your nation is February 2005. (No disrespect actually, I'm just curious; I'm a May or June '04 player myself, whenever my school let out that year.)

I started with a nation called Wolf Kingdom in late 2002, fell to hackers. Wolf Amercia, my second nation, fell to being dumb and doing some bad things like godmodding, puppet wanking, etc. Yes, I’m a dumbass I know that. But I have changed my way and came back as The Transylvania. I wanted plain Transylvanian, but that was already took as a former nation.

Well, good for you; but the way you're putting your argument it sounds as though you can say all of the missiles hit a mountain 10000000 miles from any human habitation and blew it up instead without causing any adverse effects to any living being. Meh.

But the question is did I do that? I leveled three of my top five nations. And knocked power out in two full colonies. Plus, the land in Europe was knocked out.

I can see that you have a large anti-air defense system. A lot of people do. (I use my air force for that, which I claim to be one of the best in the world because I've worked on getting it like that for almost two years; but I do have one of the most extensive anti-ship systems for any nation my size, including literally millions of missiles.) But instead of bragging about it, just use it, and then borrow this argument for when/if Ackistan complains about it.

I did used my anti-air defense system against 31 bombers that would be sitting ducks to it. Think about it, if each SAM site has six anti-air missile and fired one by one at the bombers. And not counting the flak fire.

No its not,

http://nstracker.retrogade.com/index.php?nation=clandonia_prime&nation2=Ackistan&nation3=The+Transylvania&nation4=&nation5=&nation6=

Look at the defence spending, Trans spends over 21 trillion, I spend over a trillion ackistan spends just over 400 billion.

Trans can afford a ub3r ABM system, Ackistan can not.



I do have ABM systems, but I haven't claimed they were "uber", and I haven't role-played them that way either.

You shot nukes at my military bases. My military bases were all destroyed. You shot EMP rounds at my nation. My nation is in darkness. Transylvania shot "god rod" at my silos. A bunch of my silos were destroyed.

Transylvania can afford to have the very best ABM systems money can buy, but even the very best isn't 100% effective in MT.

I have repeatedly said I will allow my nation to be completely wiped out if your side takes reasonable damage. In fact, the nukes Clandonia Prime has launched are more than up to the task.

All the missiles I've launched carried multiple warheads. In my first strike alone, you would both have been hit with over 250 warheads each even if your ABM systems were 95% effective.

The losses you posted were:
CP lost 3 cities and less than 10% population
Transylvania lost 3 cities and less than 10% population
CP's leader was killed, and was immediately replaced with a guy using the same name, who acts the same way

That is pretty underwhelming.

But the question is did I do that? I leveled three of my top five nations. And knocked power out in two full colonies. Plus, the land in Europe was knocked out.
I'm not saying you did that Trans. I'm just saying that you're saying that it could be done. Or at least implying it.

I'm wondering if it's actually worth arguing the point anymore...

Claiming approximately 45% of your GDP as allocated to your military leaves 55% for everything else, or a GDP per capita of around B$13,440 for your citizens per year. Think about how much you pay per year to live at whatever standard you live. And that B$13,440 is going to be used also for government-provided services like healthcare, roads, urbanisation, welfare, education and the like, which might leave your citizens a few thousand dollars over per year for food, luxuries, housing and the like. Additionally, corporations would have very little money to manufacture things, leaving your far too massive military with not enough equipment (you don't think titanium alloys and guns grow on trees, do you? They have to be created. That costs money. For national defence the government subsidizes corporations to allow them to do that.) Sorry, but I don't think that would work very well.

I just looked at a few of my region mates and their things. AMF has 41% Defence budget. Pantera has 35% Defence budget. Crimmond has 44% Defence budget. And that is just three of them.

Hell, I just go with my 35% because that is a lot of money.

IThe losses you posted were:
CP lost 3 cities and less than 10% population
Transylvania lost 3 cities and less than 10% population
CP's leader was killed, and was immediately replaced with a guy using the same name, who acts the same way

You do realise that 10% of each of their populations would equate to over 400 million people, or a fair bit larger than the entire population of the USA?

Remember that nations in NS are big. Really big. Bigger than nations in real life, in fact. Therefore, if an amount of nuclear weapons sufficient to destroy the RL USA hit it, fired by you -- say 250 -- and 260 million people die, which is about the population of the RL USA... you'd call it a success. But the same amount of missiles hit a larger nation, about 10 times larger, and you expect more people to die? Um... no.

You do realise that 10% of each of their populations would equate to over 400 million people, or a fair bit larger than the entire population of the USA?

Remember that nations in NS are big. Really big. Bigger than nations in real life, in fact. Therefore, if an amount of nuclear weapons sufficient to destroy the RL USA hit it, fired by you -- say 250 -- and 260 million people die, which is about the population of the RL USA... you'd call it a success. But the same amount of missiles hit a larger nation, about 10 times larger, and you expect more people to die? Um... no.

If 250+ nuclear warheads hit the US in a semi-intelligent pattern, I would expect at least half the population to die.

If the same number of nukes hit a larger nation with a bigger population, I would expect a greater number of people to die, but a smaller %.

It all boils down to this:

Transylvania said 60 missiles got by his defenses (30 for each of them). That represents an average of 270 warheads targeting each of them. They each lost 3 cities, which means I hit all of those cities with 90 warheads each? When every warhead can be independently targeted, why would I repeatedly obliterate the same cities over and over when there are perfectly in tact cities to strike?

It doesn't make sense.

In my first strike alone, you would both have been hit with over 250 warheads each even if your ABM systems were 95% effective.

We did, Ack. 30 ICBM made it pass both of our ABM. Meaning a total of 60 in both of our land. We had that many warhead hitting us.

The losses you posted were:
CP lost 3 cities and less than 10% population
Transylvania lost 3 cities and less than 10% population
CP's leader was killed, and was immediately replaced with a guy using the same name, who acts the same way

That is pretty underwhelming.

I loss four cities and a total of 260 million people in your first attack. That’s not counting the fallout and etc. I picked the four cities that are on the outer edge because the missiles would have been never made to the heart of the Dominion which has it’s own ABM system.

Your second attack, more then 5% of your missiles made it. Take two full colonies out of play. There is no power in to of my colonies. And that not adding in the land in Europe that got EMPed.

In both attacks with me, more then 5% made it through. 5% on the first attack is 25 and I had 30 make it through. 5% on the second attack is 13 and I had 15 make it through.

All of this for Ackistan:

This is it, Ack. I’m going tell you one time and one time only. You fired 500 ICBM at me divide that fifteen cities. You get 33 ICBM for each cities. Now, take that number and divide by hundred. 5 per city by that number. Meaning seven ICBM hitting toward four cities of mine is good. You took out three of my top five cities, you leveled four of my cities in total. And you took out the Holy See. You caused 260 million to be murdered and many more to die from the fallout.

Then your second attack with ICBM, in which you should have never had done because the fact that I aimed at everything WMDs site that Chellis told me, did more damage to me via the EMP attacks. You are going to cause more death because you took out their power.

If you don’t stop crying and post damage, me and CP will ignore you and this thread like it never happened. This thread was started under n00obish behavior on Ack’s side because he should have never targeted me. The reason for that is I have NEVER threaten him or NEVER done a thing to him.

Ooh, I know! Have them all hit an uninhabited city! Or a city that a megalomaniacal director had just constructed for a movie set! :D


Or maybe they should all hit a trailer park. Everyone knows they are magnets for disasters.

Or maybe they should all hit a trailer park. Everyone knows they are magnets for disasters.

No, you will role-play it right or you will be ignored. No ands, ifs or buts about.

I demand an explanation as to how these "Tungsten Rods" stuff works, are they feasible?

I demand an explanation as to how these "Tungsten Rods" stuff works, are they feasible?

I don’t listen to people who demand thing. Have you not figured that out?

I don’t listen to people who demand thing. Have you not figured that out?

I refuse to recognize them as usable weapons of war unless Im explained how they work, or given RL examples.
And this is OOC.
And I dont care.

You going to ask nicely? Or wait for the other to tell you about them? And I don’t like people demanding things from me both ICly and OOCly.

And this thread will ignored unless Ack take the losses.

For all of those that want to know about “Rods of God” and don’t demand thing, read his link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment

No, you will role-play it right or you will be ignored. No ands, ifs or buts about.

You going to ask nicely? Or wait for the other to tell you about them? And I don’t like people demanding things from me both ICly and OOCly.

And this thread will ignored unless Ack take the losses.

Stop being so fucking stubborn. This is a freeform RP, not HEY MY MILITARY PENIS IS BIGGER SO YOU DIE HAHA!

Go play WarCraft if you're looking for that.

Stop being so fucking stubborn. This is a freeform RP, not HEY MY MILITARY PENIS IS BIGGER SO YOU DIE HAHA!

Go play WarCraft if you're looking for that.

Me and CP role-play our damage right, and from the looks of it, we are doing it right.

I hate people that demand shit. It’s rude.

Me and CP role-play our damage right, and from the looks of it, we are doing it right.

I hate people that demand shit. It’s rude.

You've been demanding that Acki roleplay your way for the past several pages, I believe.

Just so everyone knows. I haven't been neglecting to choose sides. I just decided that my own side was better then the other two and decided not to support each nor denounce each.

You've been demanding that Acki roleplay your way for the past several pages, I believe.

Because he's not going to role-play his losses. He is the one being stubborn. I want him to role-play right! And the thread was started with n00bish move. Ack had no damn reason to attack me.

Then if you feel the attack wasn't justified or you had OOC reasons to do say so, why not kill the RP before it could expand into this massive dogpile on Ackistan?

Because I was not going to be a butt about it. If Ack wanted to watch his nation be wiped off the face of Earth, then he can. Ack started and he can deal with it. Ack was that did not back off as the ICBM traveled towards my nation. He had the time to call them off. About three hours until I got back on yesterday. Got back on and he didn’t call them off and he said OOCly that he was not going to call them.

And the reason Gholgoth got into this is because I told them about on my region message board. But when I joined them, AMF told me this “Attack one of us, you attack us all.”

Here is the kicker from Ack’s own mouth on Nova Europa region message board.

The Democratic Republic of Ackistan
In the end, my thread will be ignored, which is what I expected. CP and Trans aren't up for posting appropriate damage for the nukes they are taking, which is again what I expected. There will be OOC arguments. The thread will die, and none of it will have ever happened.

After it is over, CP and Trans will likely stop messing with me. They are too attached to their nations to risk another nuclear war thread.

I edited the word Tranny out because it is plain rude and I don't like it.

I don’t listen to people who demand thing. Have you not figured that out?

I noticed that very plainly in Irathria, especially when we demanded that you stand down and quit with the "I'm now the ruler, since Ramissile left" bullshit. (though ICCCD wasn't any better come to think of it)



Now, as for the ABM systems, a 95% kill ratio is not just high, it is insane and irrational for ANYONE to expect. Here's some stat knowledge: 95% is the confidence interval for a one tailed Z test at which it is relatively safe to assume 100% accuracy aside from outliers. By saying 95%, you're essentially claiming that you are perfect except for extreme outlier situations for which there is no preparing for and those results can be rejected. This is completely false. There has NEVER in the history of warfare been a system with such a track record. Try maybe 80% if you're lucky, considering the massive countermeasures on NS ICBMs.

Also, your concept of uber-localizing damage is laughable at best, malicious at worst. One simply does not state that the enemy's weapons all hit one target, or a very few targets. As Ackistan said, who in their right minds sends 90 independant warheads against a single city. One might send eight in a seven weapon encircling pattern at most at one target.

Lastly, the use of overwhelming allied support does nothing to help your cause either. You're comdeming him for being a n00b, but you are using NS Tracker (considered by many to be bad form, ESPECIALLY using it to compare your nation to your opponent's) Then when things look grim, you retreat behind your UBER ALLIES OF DOOM!


Oh, and
I edited the word Tranny out because it is plain rude and I don't like it.
Plz grow thicker skin kthx




EDIT:All Ack can do is turn them off or have them self-destruct. The missiles get near my land, I will have control over them. It’s the way I have seen people do it from the start of NS. I’m the one that gets to tell how many survive and that is 5% of the ICBMs because that is the best number that survive.
Err, he can tell you where they were aimed, because that's you know, important, eh? You claim to be able to claim that "OMG11 THEY ALL LANDZ IN OUR NUCLEAR TEST SITEZ!!!!!!!" How about not? You can calim to intercept some of them,but they're targeted by the shooter.



What if I were to say "okay, you aimed at New Heisen, but I don't want you to hit there, so you hit Carranda on the River?" Completely on the slam opposite end of my nation, and makes the bombardment irrelevant to a force trying a water landing in the North, where the bombardment would have softened up my relatively porous defense net up there.

I noticed that very plainly in Irathria, especially when we demanded that you stand down and quit with the "I'm now the ruler, since Ramissile left" bullshit. (though ICCCD wasn't any better come to think of it)

Oh hush up because you know that is the biggest lie ever. Please go back and look at those thread. I never once said I was the leader of Irathria. I said we were all leaders of Irathria.

Lastly, the use of overwhelming allied support does nothing to help your cause either. You're comdeming him for being a n00b, but you are using NS Tracker (considered by many to be bad form, ESPECIALLY using it to compare your nation to your opponent's) Then when things look grim, you retreat behind your UBER ALLIES OF DOOM!

My allies are helping clean up the mess created by Ackistan because that is what allies do. Plus, me and CP did the most damage to Ackistan.

Plz grow thicker skin kthx

Please go google the word ‘Tranny’. Everybody knows that I don’t like that word. (See Sig.) And anybody that calls me that is doing to piss me off. And Ack is doing it in hatred because he doesn't like me OOCly and ICly.

Err, he can tell you where they were aimed, because that's you know, important, eh? You claim to be able to claim that "OMG11 THEY ALL LANDZ IN OUR NUCLEAR TEST SITEZ!!!!!!!" How about not? You can calim to intercept some of them,but they're targeted by the shooter.

What if I were to say "okay, you aimed at New Heisen, but I don't want you to hit there, so you hit Carranda on the River?" Completely on the slam opposite end of my nation, and makes the bombardment irrelevant to a force trying a water landing in the North, where the bombardment would have softened up my relatively porous defense net up there.

And he never really aimed them. He said important cities. So, I targeted at four important cities that has military bases or air bases or navy bases near or around them. Hell, Berlin and Moscow had parts of my space program centers in them. He fired 500 hundred at me and I took down all but 30. He wanted to level my cities, so he leveled them.

Because I was not going to be a butt about it. If Ack wanted to watch his nation be wiped off the face of Earth, then he can. Ack started and he can deal with it. Ack was that did not back off as the ICBM traveled towards my nation. He had the time to call them off. About three hours until I got back on yesterday. Got back on and he didn’t call them off and he said OOCly that he was not going to call them.

And the reason Gholgoth got into this is because I told them about on my region message board. But when I joined them, AMF told me this “Attack one of us, you attack us all.”

Here is the kicker from Ack’s own mouth on Nova Europa region message board.

The Democratic Republic of Ackistan
In the end, my thread will be ignored, which is what I expected. CP and Trans aren't up for posting appropriate damage for the nukes they are taking, which is again what I expected. There will be OOC arguments. The thread will die, and none of it will have ever happened.

After it is over, CP and Trans will likely stop messing with me. They are too attached to their nations to risk another nuclear war thread.

I edited the word Tranny out because it is plain rude and I don't like it.


I do not deny that all along I expected you two to look for a way to ignore my thread or take miniscule losses. While I was prepared to sacrifice my nation if you two role-played the war decently, I was pretty confident you wouldn't.

Basically, Clandonia Prime with support from Transylvania have been griefing me for about two months. About once a week, Clandonia Prime would make a thread designed to threaten me with nukes. Transylvania would always support him. On at least four occasions, I told Clandonia Prime I didn’t want to role-play with him.

Every war thread that I’ve seen involving Transylvania or Clandonia Prime ended with the thread being ignored. I figured the chances of them making it through a nuclear war thread were remote at best, so I created the thread to drive home the point “leave me alone”.

Here is how that thread went down:

1. For the fifth or sixth time, Clandonia Prime creates a thread designed to threaten my nation with obliteration. As always, Transylvania's has his back. The thread was created a day or two after I expressly told him I didn't want to role-play with him.
2. I've had enough; I launch my nukes.
3. As expected, the peanut gallery throws in their two cents.
4. CP and Transylvania minimize damage by having massive amounts of warheads target individual cities. Of the 9,200 warheads launched, 540 warheads strike the same six cities over and over and over and over and over (I was going to write over and over 90 times to emphasize my point, but I got lazy).
5. I complain about the damage they took. Any unbiased person with any common sense should expect 540 intelligently aimed nuclear warheads to hit more than six targets.
6. CP fires nukes at my military bases. I allow every single base to be destroyed. CP fires EMP rounds at me. I allow my power grids to be completely destroyed. I allow one of my major cities with a naval base to be mostly destroyed too.
7. Transylvania uses god rods on my missile silos. Even though I had good reason to doubt he would know where my silos were located, I allowed half of them to be destroyed. He posted some other minor attacks, which were too vaguely described for me to know how to respond. I asked a few questions, and offer to post damage once I understand what he had in mind.
8. I launch more nukes.
9. Clandonia Prime launches nukes.
10. Clandonia Prime posts his damage. Most of his dead are foreign nationals that don't contribute to his NSEconomy. He ignores my EMP attack as far as I can tell. The nukes targeting his homeland apparently hit the same three cities I already nuked because cleanup crews were killed.
11. Transylvania posts his damage. My attacks on his satellites system destroy two satellites that have conveniently already fired their ordinance. Of all the nukes fired at him, he chooses to have none of them strike his country, and only takes the EMP's.
12. I offer to make a post detailing the complete destruction of my nation from Clandonia Prime's nuclear strikes if they agree to post more reasonable damage from my attacks.
13. Arguing ensues. Transylvania threatens to ignore the thread if I emulate his method of taking damage.

I do confess that I made this thread in bad faith. For all the nuclear threats made against my nation, I didn’t expect Transylvania and Clandonia Prime to be able to take their own medicine. However, my offer to allow my nation to be annihilated still stands, but you got to post real damage from my attacks first.

Btw… CP, making a big fuss about how your leader died, then replacing him with an identical guy with the same name was classic.

I do confess that I made this thread in bad faith. For all the nuclear threats made against my nation, I didn’t expect Transylvania and Clandonia Prime to be able to take their own medicine.

You mean your n00bish behavior? I never f**king threaten you with nukes once. So shut up about me doing that unless you have links tha tI did those things. Your bloody problem is with CP and not me. All you did with this thread was act like a n00b.

You want to know why I’m pissed off because I didn’t waste two years (Well close to two years) for some n00b to nuke my nation with weapons I have no idea how he got. I have the things to make nuclear weapons. And I have never seen Ackistan ever get or buy nukes or buy the things to make them.

Dear Lord....

If it makes things better, can I just get hit with all those nukes that disappeared en-route? I don't mind, really. And it does rather give me a better reason to say angry things to people who started flinging nuclear weaponry about....

Transylvania, as a person in the region you share, I'd suggest increasing the number of cities hit. That does of course mean that death tolls will possibly go down in cities, but having more cities hit is a good thing. Also getting military bases, strategic points like major bridges and tunnels and dams destroyed is probably a good thing...

No idea about the other character in this RP, Cladonia or something like that. He should probably increase damage too. I mean, Ackistan is saying that he's willing to get his nation completely and utterly obliterated if you post reasonable losses- and yes, I admit right now I don't view your losses as reasonable. You may notice none of the RPers who have been on here long-term do- that might be a slight hint that maybe the numbers are off...

We'll say that there are 540 warheads. Of those, we can say that about.... oh, 80? are EMP-types for utterly screwing over your defenses and sensor nets. 460 left. 200 would probably be on.... military bases with nuclear weaponry. So the hardened bunkers, that type of thing. 260 left. 40 of those will be on....dams and bridges and stuff. 220 left. Figure.... 12 per major city? I don't know yields, so cannot judge accurate amount targeted at cities, but 12 is a nice, medium number. 18 cities should have vanished in that attack, as well as a number of strategic arteries and human-made things and probably at least 30 major military bases (if not more). And any city with military base in it gets hit extra-hard.

You'd take casualties that are probably equal to about 1/2 the US dying in a major attack, which is around 150 to 200 million dead with radiation sickness and all that factored in. In exchange, Ackistan has graciously said he'll allow his entire nation to be wiped out in the nuclear reply.

There's the fair exchange. Could we change to it or something close to it and move on with the RP and with life?

No, I going to ignore this thread because Ackistan did it will n00bish behavior. I’m not dealing with him anymore. I never have been in bloody nuclear war. I never like to get into thread that there is nuclear weapons being used. I have not spend two years working on this nation to have some n00b nuke me for OOC reasons. I hate this n00bish behavior of Ackistan.

This thread has been ignored, I’m sorry for the people who took time to write post but I should have ignored this thread the day it came out.

Ackistan, lets clarify a few things.

1. You destroyed four major cities. I don't think Trans is saying thats all you destroyed. Who's to say venice, hamburg, St. petersburg, etc didn't get destroyed? You fired your nukes, they were aimed at different targets. He took out a good majority of the missiles. Some of your missiles aimed for the bigger cities hit, some aimed for the smaller, but still heavily populated ones hit. You didn't exactly give him a list of where each missile was headed for.

2. Czardas is wrong. Nuclear weapons are not soldiers, planes, tanks, whatever. They are weapons. You are attacking him, he gets to choose what damage he takes. This means he gets to choose which missiles hit him, which ones don't. Its like if you were firing at his tank, and he said that a round hit his track and disabled it, while the other four didn't penetrate the armour. Having problems with how much damage he took, and where, is a different thing.

3. I gave you your ABM system, Ack. They aren't mobile systems, I know where they got placed, because you used them in conjunction with my loaned detection satellite. Which, by the way, I took back, with over-ride codes. Did you launch one of your own? I forget.

4. Anything else I gave him was stuff I might be expected to know, from satellite footage, your satellites I set you(ones that weren't manuverable anyways, non-manuverable ones just went through a calculation to find where they were), any fleets of yours I might have passed, etc. Stuff allies have a decent understanding of, usually.

5. CP and Trans have a lot more nukes than you. More than enough to dwarf the three ABM stations I gave you, assuming they didn't get destroyed yet. I only gave you the plans for the missiles; the ABM systems can only fire so many missiles at a time, and then each has to be reloaded. Your system is hardly as comprehensive, even with your satellites, again, assuming they are still in the air.

No Endorse

1. ABM systems can be very effective, depending on what you are willing to use and to spend. Correct, a kinetic weapon that cannot manuver much probably won't have a success rate in the 90 percent range, same with laser weapons. However, two things. One, assuming there is enough time and enough stations to launch from, if a nation wants to be very careful, it can launch multiple missiles are each enemy missile, or launch waves of them, so if one misses, the second one is coming, then third, etc. Personally, I use nuclear tipped ABM's as a last resort. Countermeasures, manuverability... doesn't help when the enemy nuke gets nuked.

2. Trans didn't ask for all this help. People are dogpiling Ack for doing something as dumb as first strike nuking, regardless of the situation.

3. He didn't "uber-localize". Not only four cities were destroyed. Do you not understand the concept that there are cities other than major cities? Ones that might not get specifically mentioned?

Ack, post damage. Your attack was a suicide attack, and not that good of one. That may not suit you very well, but then you shouldn't have made it.

Good job proving him right, Trans.

Dear Lord....

If it makes things better, can I just get hit with all those nukes that disappeared en-route? I don't mind, really. And it does rather give me a better reason to say angry things to people who started flinging nuclear weaponry about....

Transylvania, as a person in the region you share, I'd suggest increasing the number of cities hit. That does of course mean that death tolls will possibly go down in cities, but having more cities hit is a good thing. Also getting military bases, strategic points like major bridges and tunnels and dams destroyed is probably a good thing...

No idea about the other character in this RP, Cladonia or something like that. He should probably increase damage too. I mean, Ackistan is saying that he's willing to get his nation completely and utterly obliterated if you post reasonable losses- and yes, I admit right now I don't view your losses as reasonable. You may notice none of the RPers who have been on here long-term do- that might be a slight hint that maybe the numbers are off...

We'll say that there are 540 warheads. Of those, we can say that about.... oh, 80? are EMP-types for utterly screwing over your defenses and sensor nets. 460 left. 200 would probably be on.... military bases with nuclear weaponry. So the hardened bunkers, that type of thing. 260 left. 40 of those will be on....dams and bridges and stuff. 220 left. Figure.... 12 per major city? I don't know yields, so cannot judge accurate amount targeted at cities, but 12 is a nice, medium number. 18 cities should have vanished in that attack, as well as a number of strategic arteries and human-made things and probably at least 30 major military bases (if not more). And any city with military base in it gets hit extra-hard.

You'd take casualties that are probably equal to about 1/2 the US dying in a major attack, which is around 150 to 200 million dead with radiation sickness and all that factored in. In exchange, Ackistan has graciously said he'll allow his entire nation to be wiped out in the nuclear reply.

There's the fair exchange. Could we change to it or something close to it and move on with the RP and with life?

None of the long-term RPers? I beg to differ.

Those missile's didn't disappear. They were shot down. You've been on NS, you should know that nations set up ABM defenses expecting tens or hundreds of thousands of nukes(larger nations, anyways), a 500 nuclear weapon attack is pretty small relatively.

Zukariaa;11954141']Good job proving him right, Trans.

STFU! Ackistan did this on OOC reasons from what I found out, meaning I have the right to ignore it. People on NS don’t attack others for OOC reason. I never did a things to him for him to f**king nuke me. I hate n00bs.

Enough of this, all of you.

This is why nukes shouldn't be used in RP's, because both sides will not be reasonable. However, I believe that Trans has taken sufficient initial losses. Don't forget Ackistan that radiation related deaths will likely cause that number to skyrocket, and considering Gholgoth ABM systems were not given time to respond before the nukes hit, I'd say you're getting of pretty light. Those of us in Gholgoth would have been well within our rights to back things up and allow our ABM nets to assist Transylvania, and in conjunction with their ABM system the losses would have been even less.

Transylvania, I suggest not losing your cool. It is not becoming of those in our region, as we value honor and integrity OOCly just as we do ICly.

I agree with all of Chellis's points except on the point of a dogpile. Ackistan obviously didn't know that Gholgoth defends its own no matter what, and if I had fired nukes at someone in, oh say, Haven, I would expect a massive amount of return fire. That's just the way it is, wether you consider it a dogpile or no.

STFU! Ackistan did this on OOC reasons from what I found out, meaning I have the right to ignore it. People on NS don’t attack others for OOC reason. I never did a things to him for him to f**king nuke me. I hate n00bs.

Yes they do. It's rather routine. The "Let's All Gangup on GASN!" war for instance.

STFU! Ackistan did this on OOC reasons from what I found out, meaning I have the right to ignore it. People on NS don’t attack others for OOC reason. I never did a things to him for him to f**king nuke me. I hate n00bs.

You supported CP. CP threatened ackistan to the point of near insanity. There's OOC elements to it, but there's IC rational.

Dude, whats the point of building up your country if you aren't willing to take losses anyways? Instead of ignoring this, you could... hmm... roleplay rebuilding, a new sense of unity in the country. What didn't kill you only made you stronger, the people never want to allow someone to get away with this again, etc.

If Ack refuses to take damage, ignore him and imagine he's a large piece of plate glass. But don't just ignore this. NS isn't about winning, you know.

You destroyed four major cities. I don't think Trans is saying thats all you destroyed. Who's to say venice, hamburg, St. petersburg, etc didn't get destroyed? You fired your nukes, they were aimed at different targets. He took out a good majority of the missiles. Some of your missiles aimed for the bigger cities hit, some aimed for the smaller, but still heavily populated ones hit. You didn't exactly give him a list of where each missile was headed for.

If Ack read my latest post in AMF’s thread, he would have saw that. He would have saw the Count was traveling to the traveling towards Rome, in which there was 200+ miles on all side are damaged. Meaning everything area those four cities was leveled in 200+ miles on each side. I don’t have map that show what each town near Berlin, Moscow, Warsaw and Rome are. I didn’t have time to look, so I picked those four cities and said they were destroyed and their surrounding areas were too.

I didn’t have time to write mile long post that detailed everything.

About the satellites being took out, I never said two. This all I said. ‘All this attack did was take out unmanned satellites that have already launched their weapons.’ The rest they already lunched their weapons is because none of your satellites would have got into my satellite areas without me knowing it. Most of my satellites look like the normal ones. So, you can’t tell which is what.

Transylvania, I suggest not losing your cool. It is not becoming of those in our region, as we value honor and integrity OOCly just as we do ICly.

Okay, I will back off and cool down. I’m just mad because Ack had not IC reason to attack me. I have never support anything CP has done.

This thread was started unfairly because Ack closed without talking with me or CP. I’m sorry, but that is just plain wrong. When you are dealing with something like this, you talk with the people before you start a thread like this.

That is all I’m going to say.

Dude, what’s the point of building up your country if you aren't willing to take losses anyways? Instead of ignoring this, you could... hmm... roleplay rebuilding, a new sense of unity in the country. What didn't kill you only made you stronger, the people never want to allow someone to get away with this again, etc.

I take losses. I took a lot of losses in this war. Everybody saw that. Hell, I would like to do the rebuilding part because I was there to do it with CP after what Blackhelm did to him.

I never once threaten anybody with WMDs. I didn’t deserve watching a nation that I have work on for two years to be destroyed. This thread has messed with many idea of thread I was going to start after the Hatarian war. And hell, this thread messed with the Hatarian war thread, too.

If Ack refuses to take damage, ignore him and imagine he's a large piece of plate glass. But don't just ignore this. NS isn't about winning, you know.

I know NS is not all about winning, but it not all about attacking people for OOC reasons, too.

I know NS is not all about winning, but it not all about attacking people for OOC reasons, too.

Wars from OOC reasons happen all the time. To be fair, the mainly accepted reason is to try and make a good RP out of it. But you can salvage this, which was my original point.

Now I remember why I don't have any wars unless I know damn sure that the other side(or assorted allies) won't fuck it up royally...

AMF: Nukes aren't a thread destorying force. People that don't know the power, the usefulness, the consequences or the fact that just because someone else shot a nuke off doesn't mean EVERYONE has to are a thread destroying force.

Before anyone brings it up, yes... I did fire off nuclear weapons myself. The first nuclear attack I have ever launched. I did it for a very specific reason and with very specific goals in mind: The crippling of short and long term infrastructure of an enemy in preperation for a land war. I even chose my warhead for a reason. Neutron warheads will achieve my goals, but not leave the targets a radioactive hell. Even the numbers were well thought out. Fifty is more than enough, but I chose that number as I can only assume that somewill not make it and having two or three strike in one area will assure debilitation of military and industrial sites.

And then I see that someone else launches THOUSANDS of HIGH YIELD nuclear weapons. Reminds me of Garrison II and his 5000 Nuke attack that wiped a whole region off the map.

What the fuck is wrong with you people?! HAVE SOME SELF CONTROL, GOD DAMMIT!

Ackistan, lets clarify a few things.
3. I gave you your ABM system, Ack. They aren't mobile systems, I know where they got placed, because you used them in conjunction with my loaned detection satellite. Which, by the way, I took back, with over-ride codes. Did you launch one of your own? I forget.

You gave me those things when my nation was barely 100 million in population. A lot of time has passed since then.

My entire satellite network was destroyed in one of my skirmishes with Clandonia Prime. The satellites you gave me don't exist anymore. I can dig up that post if need be.

When you gave me those ABM missiles, you only gave me 150. I wanted to be able to defend myself from more than 150 missiles, so I purchased additional systems.

When I have thousands of missiles being fired at me, the 142 remaining ABM missiles you gave me won't make a difference in the great scheme of things. My nation is doomed with or without them.

Like I've said, I am willing make a post where my nation gets wiped out. My fleets and air forces will return to friendly bases and surrender, my people will all die, my president will commit suicide, the whole nine yards. All I ask in return is to get reasonable damage from my attacks. I don't think I've gotten that, but I respect your right to disagree. You should know by now that I am stubborn when I believe I'm right. No hard feelings, Chellis.

PS. I have plenty of reasons to attack Transylvania IC. Nobody other than Transylvania seems to disagree with that point, but if some reasonable person requests justification, I'll invest the time in providing some links.

You gave me those things when my nation was barely 100 million in population. A lot of time has passed since then.

My entire satellite network was destroyed in one of my skirmishes with Clandonia Prime. The satellites you gave me don't exist anymore. I can dig up that post if need be.

When you gave me those ABM missiles, you only gave me 150. I wanted to be able to defend myself from more than 150 missiles, so I purchased additional systems.

When I have thousands of missiles being fired at me, the 142 remaining ABM missiles you gave me won't make a difference in the great scheme of things. My nation is doomed with or without them.

Like I've said, I am willing make a post where my nation gets wiped out. My fleets and air forces will return to friendly bases and surrender, my people will all die, my president will commit suicide, the whole nine yards. All I ask in return is to get reasonable damage from my attacks. I don't think I've gotten that, but I respect your right to disagree. You should know by now that I am stubborn when I believe I'm right. No hard feelings, Chellis.

PS. I have plenty of reasons to attack Transylvania IC. Nobody other than Transylvania seems to disagree with that point, but if some reasonable person requests justification, I'll invest the time in providing some links.

OOC: Haha, its all good. I have no OOC hard feelings for anything, just roleplaying my government IC, aka covering their asses by pandering to the winners, so to speak.

Wasn't aware you had more ABM's, but I figured you might. I figure I only know about the ones I gave you. I never said I told Trans everything, just what I could reasonably know IC.

And I dunno, I love those nuclear tipped ABM's. Which is wierd, I've never gotten to use them.

I, for one, vote we rewind a few RL days and pretend that all of this never happened.

I, for one, vote we rewind a few RL days and pretend that all of this never happened.

That has the been the most sensible and logical thing said all the time. I'm up for that now.

Please do.....this was all so silly even tho the ships were leaving i thought it had stopped

END NOW

Wow.

Ok.

Transylvania, based upon the first post I read regarding your damage (in the Gholgoth IC thread), I would have to say that you did take enough damage. I have no fault with you.

I do find fault in CP, though. CP has not posted enough losses in my opinion, and obviously does not have adequate knowledge in the use of nuclear devices.

Claiming a 100MT device? Are you insane? When I took a break from NS, most people would still call BS on that. If that's changed, then it is a dismal period for II then.

Actually, I think DMG sells 100MT nukes.

Actually, I think DMG sells 100MT nukes.

I could believe it.

If a 100MT nuke was set off in the real world, it would raise radiation levels of the *entire planet* -- some people don't realize the real impact of such a device. This is why it is best for people to stick to non-nuclear devices.

Please do.....this was all so silly even tho the ships were leaving i thought it had stopped

END NOW

Actually, he was sending more ships even closer to my nation.



Personally, I'm all for fighting this war to its final conclusion. I spent a lot of time writing my "I'm dead" post. I'm looking forward to using it the moment I get some reasonable damage out of those two.

This is why it is best for people to stick to non-nuclear devices.

Amen, brother. Amen.

I could believe it.

If a 100MT nuke was set off in the real world, it would raise radiation levels of the *entire planet* -- some people don't realize the real impact of such a device. This is why it is best for people to stick to non-nuclear devices.

I built one and tested one it was one of the reasons what pissed Ack off. :D

100 MT staged thermonuclear devices are certainly possible. Practical? Not really.

Any ICBM carrying such a weapon will be ridiculously easy to shoot down due to how large it is.


Also, for what it's worth, I agree with you-- for strategic purposes, other weapons usually are more preferable.

The USSR built a 100 megaton nuclear weapon.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e1/Tsarbomb.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c6/Tsar_Bomba_under_plane.jpg
(being airlifted by a modified Tu-95)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0a/TB0063.jpg

The Tsar Bomba was a three stage weapon that was indeed 100 megatons, but the uranium fusion stage tamper of the tertiary (and possibly the secondary) stage(s) was replaced by one(s) made of lead. This reduced the yield by 50% by eliminating the fast fissioning of the uranium tamper by the fusion neutrons.

It was an air dropped bomb, with parachute retardation inorder for the observer plane and bomber to get to the minimum safe distance of 45 kilometers. It detonated at an altitude of 4,000 meters. The fireball touched the ground, reached nearly as high as the altitude of the release plane, and was seen 1,000 km away. The heat could have caused third degree burns at a distance of 100 km. The subsequent mushroom cloud was about 60 km high and 30–40 km wide. The seismic shockwave(equal to a 7.0 earthquake) created by the detonation was measurable even on its third passage around the Earth.

The power output of that weapon was 1% of the power output of the Sun for 39 nanoseconds. It is the single most powerful device ever utilized throughout the history of Man. Unfortunatly... Much of the radiation was dumped into space, not into the atmosphere where it could wreak havok with a potential enemy.

In short: 50 megatons was considered far too impractical for an actual commisioning of weapons. 100 megatons is just plain moronic.

Those bombers would meet with 120mm ECM EM rifled Kraven Flak Cannons as they fired into the air. These cannons are famous to the high range of fire. So, the bombers would have fu playing with 120mm flak rounds.

None would survive to make their run as SAM sites locked on to the bombers and firing. Thirty-one bombers would not survive the attack from thousands of SAM sites and thousands of flak cannons.

Chellis,

I remember reading your post saying something about how missiles or whatnot were not considered troops, and that people could role-play destroying them within reason. I agree. When I said Transylvania was godmodding the destruction of my stuff, the quote above is what I was referring to.

I had 31 bombers carrying 10 nukes each trying to destroy cities. He basically told me they were all dead. If he hadn't godmodded, I would have reacted to his flak cannons. Some of my planes might have survived by turning around. Alternatively, my planes might have just started dropping their payloads once they started taking fire instead of flying to their targets like lemmings.

I'm not really sure what happened to my B-2 bomber attack against Clandonia Prime. I know the 4 bombers that I sent to his colonies killed a lot of slaves that don't contribute to his NSEconomy, but the bulk of my planes were bound for his homeland. He made a post saying he was shooting EMP cannons at those bombers, which is useless. A $2.5 billion aircraft designed to carry nukes is going to be EMP shielded. Those bombers were carrying 310 350kt "salted" nukes, but they didn't seem to do damage. As far as I know, the casualty count in his homeland is relatively unchanged since my first strike.

By my best guess, Clandonia Prime should have taken betwen 500-620 nuclear warheads on his homeland plus a much smaller number on his two colonies. Roughly half were "salted" for increased fallout. He also would have a good number of EMP's over his homeland and there were attempts at nuclear attacks on his fleets.

Transylvania should have taken around 310 warheads on his homeland assuming all my bombers were destroyed. He also took a good number of EMP's.

Instead of continuing bickering over this, I'm going to suggest what I think are fair casualties.


Clandonia Prime
50% population dead in homeland
50% slave population dead in colonies
50% of armed forces dead (including orbital stuff)
75% of nation's electronics not working

Transylvania
15% population dead in homeland
15% of armed forces dead
50 weapon satellites destroyed 50/50 mix of ones with no ammo and with ammo
50% of nation's electronics not working

If you can give me something along those lines, I'll give you the wipe out post. In 30 days my nation will cease to exist. Do we have a deal?

50% of my population are you mad? Its not like they were sitting around on top of the glaciers waiting to be killed....
And really I've had enough of this, I just want the threads locked and it can be back to the way it was before the war happened.

Transylvania
15% population dead in homeland
15% of armed forces dead
50 weapon satellites destroyed 50/50 mix of ones with no ammo and with ammo
50% of nation's electronics not working

How about a big no to this whole thread because you did under n00bish behavior. Unlike you have planned RP that will be happened and your n00bish thread has messed with them. In one I was going to be Kraven’s next target after SEA and K-Stan.

This thread was started under OOC stuff not IC because you didn’t have anything against me to do an attack like that. I never once demand anything from you ICly. I never once threaten WMD ICly. CP did that, all I told you ICly that it is a Dominion Commonwealth problem.

If you took time before you started this thread, you would have saw the 100 billion USD I was wiring to your because your virus problem. When a nation is going to give you money, you going to nuke them? That’s dumb.

The thread is no more and everything is back to where it was on Tuesday with our three nations.

And here is the deal I will go with, everything is bad to normal. My 100 billion will be stillwired to you. CP will be caged again and become my naval designer for the DC. No CP’s ships or planes will travel into Nova Europa. My planes or I could use other DC’s member’s planes to travel into the DC’s members in Nova Europa to help with their military training like in Duck. If CP moves into that region then you can have nuclear with him and I will clean up the mess later. Deal?

And here is the deal I will go with, everything is bad to normal. My 100 billion will be stillwired to you. CP will be caged again and become my naval designer for the DC. No CP’s ships or planes will travel into Nova Europa. My planes or I could use other DC’s member’s planes to travel into the DC’s members in Nova Europa to help with their military training like in Duck. If CP moves into that region then you can have nuclear with him and I will clean up the mess later. Deal?

Sounds about right, now, Off I am!

Sounds like a sensible solution to me, JWolf..
*curses his job for causing him to miss this whole exchange, again*

Yeah I wouldn't mind that, there are so new people that need some threatening....

No, CP, you need to stop threaten people with WMD. that is what got us in this problem. :rolleyes:

No, CP, you need to stop threaten people with WMD. that is what got us in this problem. :rolleyes:

You say its like a bad thing.

You say its like a bad thing.
If you have not already realized that fact, then I have nothing more to say to you...Now I'm taking my leave of this thread before I grill you like a newly caught traut..

If you have not already realized that fact, then I have nothing more to say to you...Now I'm taking my leave of this thread before I grill you like a newly caught traut..

It was ment to be funny! :p

Yes, it is. You're using my name and the DC's name to threaten people. You’re caged as of now. You can’t fight unless you are invaded. Now, design some more ships!

It was ment to be funny! :p
Given the circumstances it was not only un funny, but also borderline insulting..

I'd suggest listening carefully to what JWolf says from now on..I somehow doubt that I am the only one to have all but lost my patience with your actions.

Given the circumstances it was not only un funny, but also borderline insulting..

I'd suggest listening carefully to what JWolf says from now on..I somehow doubt that I am the only one to have all but lost my patience with your actions.

WTF?

I have never gone around nuking people, threaten perhaps but war no.

... Ok.

I don't have the time to read this whole thread and respond to everything individually, but I will say that very frequently, participants in this debate have been wrong, and are still. I won't name any names because it applies to most of you.

The sensible thing to do, here, would be to either: a) Find an IC way to resolve the situation or b) Find an OOC way. An IC example might be to have something go wrong with Ackistani missile systems, such as an electrical storm that suddenly arises over the command centre, disabling the missile guidance and causing all of the problematic nuclear weapons to fall into the sea -- removing the reason for AMF and company to declare war in the first place. The OOC way would be to retcon the entire roleplay. Generally the IC way is considered more mature, but sometimes an RP has just become a massive, lumbering, monstrous mutant zombie pirate ninja child, and has to simply be destroyed -- I refer to such events as the "Liberation of Czardas" RP a while back.

EDIT: Ok, I see that it's been resolved anyway, never mind.

WTF?

I have never gone around nuking people, threaten perhaps but war no.

You still have threaten people with them. Stop it please. The nation has been caged for the second time. Just design more ships and not threaten people WMDs again.

OOC: Does that mean this mess is over?

OOC: Does that mean this mess is over?

Yes. CP's caged. I'm okay. Nova Europa is save. Everything never happened.

So wheres the Dominions next concerns, the Corporate Alliance have just rallied to Kraven Corporations support in the South East Asia war.

The USSR built a 100 megaton nuclear weapon.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e1/Tsarbomb.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c6/Tsar_Bomba_under_plane.jpg
(being airlifted by a modified Tu-95)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0a/TB0063.jpg

The Tsar Bomb was a three stage weapon that was indeed 100 megatons, but the uranium fusion stage tamper of the tertiary (and possibly the secondary) stage(s) was replaced by one(s) made of lead. This reduced the yield by 50% by eliminating the fast fission of the uranium tamper by the fusion neutrons.

It was an air dropped bomb, with parachute retardation in order for the observer plane and bomber to get to the minimum safe distance of 45 kilometers. It detonated at an altitude of 4,000 meters. The fireball touched the ground, reached nearly as high as the altitude of the release plane, and was seen 1,000 km away. The heat could have caused third degree burns at a distance of 100 km. The subsequent mushroom cloud was about 60 km high and 30–40 km wide. The seismic shock wave(equal to a 7.0 earthquake) created by the detonation was measurable even on its third passage around the Earth.

The power output of that weapon was 1% of the power output of the Sun for 39 nanoseconds. It is the single most powerful device ever utilized throughout the history of Man. Unfortunately... Much of the radiation was dumped into space, not into the atmosphere where it could wreak havoc with a potential enemy.

In short: 50 megatons was considered far too impractical for an actual commissioning of weapons. 100 megatons is just plain moronic.

We are fortunate that the weapon wasn't as powerful as intended. If it produced a 100Mt detonation, then there would have been repercussions that I don't want to think about.

Nice to see TWSP plotting to invade me already....

Haven't actually seen Ackistan agree to this yet, I may have missed it. Still, I think it's a sensible option.

Please lay off the n00b references guys, Ackistan is a hell of a lot better roleplayer than many on these forums, I think he just got a little frustrated and angry, Trans especially has no right to call anyone a n00b for this.

Haven't actually seen Ackistan agree to this yet, I may have missed it. Still, I think it's a sensible option.

Please lay off the n00b references guys, Ackistan is a hell of a lot better roleplayer than many on these forums, I think he just got a little frustrated and angry, Trans especially has no right to call anyone a n00b for this.

I don't know, I sometimes see almost everyone who joined after about March 2005 as a n00b or at least a newb.... then again, that's me. And there are a few who have managed to shake off that status, such as Wingarde.

Nice to see TWSP plotting to invade me already....

Which is, by the way, all OOC talking.

Which is, by the way, all OOC talking.

Just remember what alliances I'm in my Marxist matey.

Just remember what alliances I'm in my Marxist matey.

I know, Im just waiting.

I know, Im just waiting.

Not just the Dominion....

Not just the Dominion....

Good for you matey.

Still don't know if Ackistan has accepted or not, I guess he will (or has somewhere I've missed).

Check your TG's Ack.

Haven't actually seen Ackistan agree to this yet, I may have missed it. Still, I think it's a sensible option.

Please lay off the n00b references guys, Ackistan is a hell of a lot better roleplayer than many on these forums, I think he just got a little frustrated and angry, Trans especially has no right to call anyone a n00b for this.

He hasn’t been on, I think. I said n00bish behavior most of the time because the thread was n00bish. A n00b can be players that use OOC reasons to attack ICly as I saw in Ack’s behavior.

He hasn’t been on, I think. I said n00bish behavior most of the time because the thread was n00bish. A n00b can be players that use OOC reasons to attack ICly as I saw in Ack’s behavior.

I'm not going to get sucked in... I'm not going to get sucked in... Argh! Alright, you have a point.

I'm not going to get sucked in... I'm not going to get sucked in... Argh! Alright, you have a point.

This is OOC, but want to join the DC? We only got one bad seed, but if they were more good seeds then it will overpower that bad seed. It's better to be united then divide.

Sorry Trans, not particularly. I think some of my region would view me as a 'betrayer'.

No, seriously, I'm sure you guys are good I'm just don't think you're right for me.

...It's not you, it's me...:D

Sorry Trans, not particularly. I think some of my region would view me as a 'betrayer'.

No, seriously, I'm sure you guys are good I'm just don't think you're right for me.

...It's not you, it's me...:D

There’s already DC members in your region. *Looks around and smiles* Well, there is always a space open for you or any of the others. I want more nations that I can over the fact I didn’t have many nations help me at the million marks. I did get buddies with a lot of CAD members later.