NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC:

FTLi is supposed to be drive type specific so people cannot use it to counter a type of drive they have never seen before. Hyperspace is countered by Gravity, ect... There is a way to inhibit my drives but you have to discover it ICly instead of tossing about a blanket FTLi expecting it to counter everything you encounter.

That takes the fun out of it, especially in the quest for the discovery of a way to counter a ship that you couldn't before.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=505894


My FTLi isn't, for the very simple reason that I don't like people jumping from one universe to another, or warping around all over the universe so that can take pot shots at my ships which are busy trying to target theirs. It's not because I want to own anyone, but because it takes all the fun out of RPing anything battle related for me, to have to try and chase around people who apparently think themselves my superiors (if we're going to talk first contact, and relations, talking to my guys in the way you have, was not a good idea. It in fact, only makes an expansionist regime less apt to listen). And I believe I Can succcessfully counter your ship; I assume it can die when hit with a bullet just like any other ship, the issue is tac-ftling all over the place with one ship, trying to take on a war fleet of my own.


uh... as far as calling it quits goes: I never said that. I said I had an issue with using FTL to flit about from place to place and basically avoid taking all damage whatsoever. That is in fact, the only reason why FTLi legitimately exists: to keep people from warping out, warping back in, firing, and warping about again ad nauseum.

He's not leaving the universe either. Torq-Space is just another dimension, like length, width, depth, and time. It doesn't actually involve any FTL whatsoever.

It could be characterized more as a dimensional cloak than anything, the only issue is in order to effectively combat it you would first need to figure out what is actually going on. You can't shoot him while he's 'Uplifted', and he cannot shoot you back. So it is mostly utilized for combat maneuvering and whatnot.

When someone is taught the martial arts, be it fighting styles, basic training, or jet fighting they all have the fact mobility is the key to defeating your enemy. If they fire at you, don’t be there. If they try to punch you, don’t be there. If they are shooting anti-aircraft munitions, dodge the hell out of the way so you are not there when it arrives.

Now, just because the person chucking their spears at you are mad you stepped behind the wall or used an interposed shield to block the shot, does that mean you have to stand perfectly still and let the shots hit you so they are happier?

No.

If you notice, in the second post I stated I was shooting a targeting laser at your command bridge. You exercised your right to determine it was an observation deck that I thought was the bridge (although sensors would have determined there was a decidedly lack of electrical activity in that location so it would not have been a bridge but I allowed that to pass) when you decided the shot missed the target.

As a matter of fact, I don’t even use FTLi because of the way it is mistakenly generalized and misunderstood. If a single FTLi can prevent every type of FTL then it is by definition a godmod.

Oh, I see you must have edited my offer to leave out of the post.

Okay, I think I should probably just fill you on how everything works here before someone comes up and flames you to heck and makes your first expieriences here a series of bad ones. I'd just like to start out by informing you that your veiwpoint, while understandable, isn't the accepted way to roleplay around here. Here's my cheif concern.

You don't like that people jump around from one universe to another? Well I'l tell you what vexes me, and it's a lot more relevant than yours.

A new nation enters an established universe and claims that their new tech, which by the rules and laws of NS roleplay, has only existed since febuary 2006, can overcome the established, built up, long researched, documented, agumented tech of a nation that has actively existed for far longer. Balrogga is the leading advocate of Dimensional technology on these forums, and has researched, justified and created his technology for longer than anyone I know, with the possible exception of Tannelorn. Simply put, he's one of the most powerful dimensional tech nations to ever have existed. I mean, he even has a WEBSITE showing his tech. Sweet jesus that's dedication. As you can see, we have here someone who like to put effort into their universe.

However, not only that but you claim to have (direct quote) over two hundred destroyers, one hundred and fifty cruisers, seventy battleships, and twenty dreadnoughts, all lead by one giant command ship, focusing their destruction towards the same stellar body they had subjugated hours earlier.

This is all when you've made exactly fifteen posts and haven't roleplayed or documented the construction of any of this. Real Life NS time spent roleplaying = Proportional to the amount of technology and the potency you posses (alongside other factors like having help). And you're claiming to have a big scary nasty fleet, a large ground force that only takes tiny amounts of casualities when facing a force several orders of magnitude above their size, and superior technology? You better have ships made of plastered together suits of cardboard, or you're having the best of everything and that is godmodding. You cannot claim to have the best of everything or such strong qualities in every area, particularly when so young, and particularly when you're claiming to be able to deal with someone far more advanced than you, when you've never specified you have the technology to deal with their moves in the first place.

You've got a fleet that's probably as big as Balrogga's (certainly bigger than mine, I've got exactly 6 ships, but they're just damn scary ;o ), you've existed for a tiny amount of time in the OOC universe, you've Got FTLi that can stop any ship of any FTL travel type without documenting any of the research or justifiyng any of this with a research thread or a wiki (and even if you do, the time issue still exists), and you're claiming to have the dimensional technology in that FTLi to stop one of two of NS's most accomplished dimensional-tech nations in a straight up fight where he hasn't even actually engaged you in battle with the intent of destroying you?

You see, this is what we call pushing the boundaries of believability. Believe me when I say this isn't as unfair to you, as it's unfair to Balrogga, when the universe he has so carefully constructed, crafted, researched and backed up is violated by someone a lot younger, who claims to be able to ignore the obvious tech advantage when you have no reason to yet. There's no need for you to get worried people will abuse or techwank you into existance because you're new, older nations will protect you over that and Balrogga would be called to account if he did. That's simply bad form to ruthlessly abuse newbies with your advanced tech powers, but he hasn't. He shot a low powered laser at your ship to make a point. Believe me on this, if he wanted to destroy you, you wouldn't have a fleet about now. But that's no justification to claim to have the best of everything, and it never will be. Believe me, I know exactly how you feel, and I've faced the same problem myself (being the youngest of the roleplayers who have already posted). So do what I did, get out there, find the older stalwarts like Balrogga and Godular (who are more than willing to help if you ask nicely), and your tech and ability to adress the issues you fear will be fixed. But don't expect it to happen immediately.

Plus there's aslo the fact Tspace can't actually hurt you. It does look funny though.

All due fairness though, at least you're not a November 06 nation pulling that stuff, and the posts are better than most. Juuuuuuuuuuuuust need to get the hang of things is all.

He's not leaving the universe either. Torq-Space is just another dimension, like length, width, depth, and time. It doesn't actually involve any FTL whatsoever.

It could be characterized more as a dimensional cloak than anything, the only issue is in order to effectively combat it you would first need to figure out what is actually going on. You can't shoot him while he's 'Uplifted', and he cannot shoot you back. So it is mostly utilized for combat maneuvering and whatnot.

Yeah, I kinda throw that under the FTL banner, perhaps it is unorthodox here but in NS that is just what we do (having a specific acronym for a counter to every single thing is rather tedious and needless.) One thing I think I should say about your cloak analogy: cloak working and not working in deus ex machinesque fashion as the end-all to be-all was something that was emphasized in the stickies so long ago. So even if we say that 'uplifting' to another dimension isn't FTL, we basically end up with he same problem afflicting all cloak: the fact it never works 100% of the time, and that it doesn't even work that well.

I'm not saying Balrogga's dimensional technology is a bad concept, just that taking it to the extremes and basically hop scotching around my fleet, or anyone’s fleet, and basically using it to take no damage is rather wanky if not bordering on the edges of godmoddery by its damage-evading nature.

When someone is taught the martial arts, be it fighting styles, basic training, or jet fighting they all have the fact mobility is the key to defeating your enemy. If they fire at you, don’t be there. If they try to punch you, don’t be there. If they are shooting anti-aircraft munitions, dodge the hell out of the way so you are not there when it arrives.

Yes, this I agree, yet this is all working under the presumption that my disagreement with how you are moving is an unreasonable demand. Let's face it: you are jumping in the midst of everything I have. This is like a fighter jet doing donuts above a cluster of sam sites; the pilot lost the mobility advantage on his own.

Now, just because the person chucking their spears at you are mad you stepped behind the wall or used an interposed shield to block the shot, does that mean you have to stand perfectly still and let the shots hit you so they are happier?

No.

I can't disagree, but if you get right in middle of that person and his buddy armed with throwing spears, you consent then to loosing the mobility advantage that you seem to think I am wholly unaware of.

If you notice, in the second post I stated I was shooting a targeting laser at your command bridge. You exercised your right to determine it was an observation deck that I thought was the bridge (although sensors would have determined there was a decidedly lack of electrical activity in that location so it would not have been a bridge but I allowed that to pass) when you decided the shot missed the target.

Well this is due to the nature of my ships: the bridge is not built in a SW-esque fashion, it is not a visible target for all the world to see. (Also there would be some electrical activity, not much but some; Andrau likes his video games). The bridge is in fact surrounded by armor (it was too expensive to include its own independent shield generator, and would probably act as an obstruction if anything else), lots of armor that is not sensor friendly. Even if you did find the bridge, the amount of armor protecting it would have left the rather arrogant (some of it is undeserved) Commodore unperturbed.

As a matter of fact, I don’t even use FTLi because of the way it is mistakenly generalized and misunderstood. If a single FTLi can prevent every type of FTL then it is by definition a godmod.

I don't use FTLi unless it is in a counter-wank/godmod role, or to prevent tac-ftling from ruining an RP. It's a sad but necessary evil; as I've mentioned numerous times already, an RP that turns into a game of whack'a-mole with super FT weapons isn't any fun, and is a rather pathetic RP. As far as FTLi's resemblance to a godmod, well FTL can be godmod too, when you use it to basically evade taking damage.

Oh, I see you must have edited my offer to leave out of the post.

Er. What?


Okay, I think I should probably just fill you on how everything works here before someone comes up and flames you to heck and makes your first expieriences here a series of bad ones. I'd just like to start out by informing you that your veiwpoint, while understandable, isn't the accepted way to roleplay around here. Here's my cheif concern.

Uhm, NS is freeform. That's all I really need to say to justify my existence in this forum as it pertains to what you just said.

You don't like that people jump around from one universe to another? Well I'l tell you what vexes me, and it's a lot more relevant than yours.

Yes, I don't like it because I view it as running away from taking damage by use of technology I might not agree with.

A new nation enters an established universe and claims that their new tech, which by the rules and laws of NS roleplay, has only existed since febuary 2006, can overcome the established, built up, long researched, documented, agumented tech of a nation that has actively existed for far longer.

There is no 'established' universe, NS has been, and always will be a multiverse; there is in fact a need for this arrangement for things such as nations claiming the same Sol based planet, or one nation ignoring another; think of the chaos it would brew if everyone had to decide who they could or could not RP with because of problems in a single universe. Also, I will say this: a 200 page thread on research doesn't make something less wanky or unacceptable ot me or anyone else; I can make a research thread longer than anything most anyone else could ever manage, yet that doesn't make the concept I am researching less wanky if I had just forgone that and said "I have this universe destroying weapon, so hah."

Balrogga is the leading advocate of Dimensional technology on these forums, and has researched, justified and created his technology for longer than anyone I know, with the possible exception of Tannelorn. Simply put, he's one of the most powerful dimensional tech nations to ever have existed.

Indeed, and I guess Balrogga deserves a pat on the back for going to so much trouble to get his concept accepted before the eyes of the II court. And I don't dispute his power in his specialized field; I dispute certain aspects of it making my concept wholly irrelevant in my own intro RP.

However, not only that but you claim to have (direct quote)
Quote:
over two hundred destroyers, one hundred and fifty cruisers, seventy battleships, and twenty dreadnoughts, all lead by one giant command ship, focusing their destruction towards the same stellar body they had subjugated hours earlier.

Yes, I did, because I decided that my plot called for it.

This is when you've made exactly fifteen posts and haven't roleplayed or documented the construction of any of this. Real Life NS time spent roleplaying = Proportional to the amount of technology and the potency you posses (alongside other factors like having help).

Er. No. Hell no. Fuck no. Burn it with fire. I argued against this very same bullshit with SQ during his reign of infamy in the NS forum, in which he attempted to run roughshod over everyone because he had been around a daylonger than they had and thus had better technology. The potency of anything is up, to me. Granted everyone else has to accept it or its moot, but no one other than myself has final say over how my tech works, why it works, and what it does.


And you're claiming to have a big scary nasty fleet, a large ground force that only takes tiny amounts of casualities when facing a force several orders of magnitude above their size, and superior technology?

Unless I said otherwise, the guys we conquered were MT/PMT at best. They didn't have superior technology, and their numbers meant little when the command structure was evaporated by a 200mt surgical bomb that struck here and there.

You better have ships made of plastered together suits of cardboard, or you're having the best of everything and that is godmodding. You cannot claim to have the best of everything or such strong qualities in every area, particularly when so young, and particularly when you're claiming to be able to deal with someone far more advanced than you, when you've never specified you have the technology to deal with their moves in the first place.

Er. No. The ships are as strong as my plot demands, and right now my plot demands that the ships be pretty damn strong. I never claimed the best of everything anyhow, that's just your rather... odd interpretation of what happened in that thread. Also, I do not and have never subscribed to the belief that older = better tech, that older = better military. Older means you have more men to throw in the grinder, and that you likely have more allies than a newer guy, but in the world of freeform RP, Old != teh bestest.

So lemme get this straight. You've got a fleet that's probably as big as Balrogga's, you've existed for a tiny amount of time in the OOC universe, you've Got FTLi that can stop any ship of any type without documenting any of the research or justifiyng any of this with a research thread or a wiki (and even if you do, the time issue still exists), and you're claiming to have the dimensional technology in that FTLi to stop one of two of NS's most accomplished dimensional-tech nations in a straight up fight where he hasn't even actually engaged you in battle with the inent of destroying you?

You haven't gotten it straight. You are entirely incorrect. I have a big fleet because the Niiatar Hegemony is an expansionist regime similar to the USSR, which is bankrupting itself to extremes that would have an accountant commit suicide, and can only lengthen its short life span by conquering as much as it can in as short amount of time as possible, also known as a concept for a nation. I have FTLi that can stop RP ruining bullshit as I thought I explained before; research is a tedious waste of time that takes away from writing good stories to focus on inane details no one pays attention to, and I never claimed the same level of dimensional technology that Bal has. Though to be honest, in realistic terms, why shouldn't I have a basic grasp of it? At current the MT world we live in now doesn't have FTLi, but they are studying the concept (even if they are getting no where), so it stands to reason that if we have the physics capable to built FTL ships, to build the weapons we have, and to do everything that we do, then it is not unreasonable for me to claim that we have a basic understanding of how the various dimensions work, or that perhaps we have theoretical ways of stopping ships from entering/exiting them("Yeah bob, could have some Alterans pop out of another dimensions onto one of our capital cities... Might want to do something about that."), and possibly detecting ships traveling through them.

You see, this is what we call pushing the boundaries of believability. Believe me when I say this isn't unfair to you, it's unfair to Balrogga. There's no need for you to get worried people will abuse or techwank you into existance because you're new, older nations will protect you over that. But that's no justification to claim to have the best of everything, and it never will be.

You see, you come in here trying to educate someone who has been around almost as long as you have, as to how RPing is supposed to work, then you prove you have no idea what you're talking bout as far as telling a story goes, and manage to sound like the temporal tech wankers during the accord days. If you don't like the concept: don't participate, that's what's awesome about NS: if you don't want to do something, you ain't gotta. If I don't want to go by your odd set of rules and procedures for telling a good story, then I won't. There is no boundary of believability when you're telling a good story, which is my intention; I don't care to be the next Sith or Melkor as far as having 'power' goes, I care about telling a story from the viewpoint of an expansionist warrior nation.

As far as fairness goes: you're strict rules structure is wholly unfair to new people, as it forces them to do stupid levels of research before they actually start being able to fight more established players because they "have better tech." And is a system I would rather throw through a wood chipper, than I would follow anyday. I'm not trying to be unfair to Bal; I want to tell a story that is free to being changed by the interaction of others, yet at the same time I don't want that story to be dominated by the use of dimensional technology that basically makes my concept a useless detail in my own intro thread.

When we analyze your words as it pertains to older nations not tech wanking, I really don't care. Age doesn't really matter to me, and never has. I don't want or need someone from 02 trying to protect this nation because it is from 06, that doesn't tell a story but actually makes the entire RP process a pointless exercise in self gratification for the older nations.

I must say I find it odd: I want to tell a story, you want to stick to some strange wargame construct that is not conducive in t he slightest to story telling. This story is one of violence, and its affects on other cultures, and the individual people of those cultures. I don't care whether or not you like the concept, Xenon, you can never interact with me for the rest of my RPing career and it won't matter at all, because all I care about is the story, and not technology or techwank. The only thing anyone has ever needed to know about my tech, is that it's as strong as I decide it needs to be for the sake of the plot at the time, otherwise there's just no point.

I agree that your posts are extremely well written. That is why I joined your Thread.

ICly and OOCly I found your methods inefficient and extravagent so I figured I would pop in and see what you would do. So far you have resorted to violence instead of trying to demand who the hell I was.

That is why I showed you I could strike your ship if I wanted to with the equivelent power of a laser pointer and dance out of the way. I then extended an Avatar Vessel to see if you would be willing to talk yet or if you still wanted to be violent.

I still intend on trying to teach you to be more efficient (my ICly view) but this OOC bit started up and we have to get through it first.

ICly I expect you to attack the Avatar because your agression level is way up there but you will have to get your vessels there first.

That is why I tried to TG you my MSN address, so you could add me to your list and we can talk about what was happening.

I agree that your posts are extremely well written. That is why I joined your Thread.

ICly and OOCly I found your methods inefficient and extravagent so I figured I would pop in and see what you would do. So far you have resorted to violence instead of trying to demand who the hell I was.

That is why I showed you I could strike your ship if I wanted to with the equivelent power of a laser pointer and dance out of the way. I then extended an Avatar Vessel to see if you would be willing to talk yet or if you still wanted to be violent.

I still intend on trying to teach you to be more efficient but this OOC bit started up and we have to get through it first.

ICly I expect you to attack the Avatar because your agression level is wayt up there but you will have to get your vessels there first.

That is why I tried to TG you my MSN address, so you could add me to your list and we can talk about what was happening.

I can't really get on MSN tonight; if I'm not running Nortan trying to purge my system of virii and other such filth, I'm downloading some software I need for a school project in AP Euro (The legal kind people); I have to conserve bandwidth for today.

And as far as violence goes, well you just jumped out of your other dimension thing, into the middle of a warfleet that just murdered millions of people in the name of progress. So it is not unrealistic to assume we'd resort to blowing you up first and wondering who you were later, in fact I expect anyone to do the same thing given the context of the situation.

Inefficient, extravagant, that's fair I guess; that's what we're going for. I'm not against highquality (I know you go quality of quantity, I do to with other nations as a general rule) ships being able to match more than one of my own in any real fight, I just have an issue with basically jumping all over the place in the name of teaching me a lesson, which comes off, as well... OOCly as kind of rude, and ICly is REALLY only going to piss us off (Pride and what not is a big obstacle here). ICly you probably intended that to happen; an angry enemy is not a rational one, but OOCly I duno; I'm not saying I am perfect in the arts of war or RPing, but it's a rather ... odd thing to say to someone, yeah, that's a good way to put it.

Also we need to kind of answer a question right now: Am I going to be able to destroy either of these ships, or am I going to be ICly running around for a few minutes, before we get bored and, head to the next world to subjugate? Because, as I said, I like interacting with people and having stories changed based on the contributions of other players, but violence, and pain, and death, and the destruction of cultures and societies is the central theme for this thread.

As a simple answer to your question, keeping in mind your own FTLi:

You just trapped yourself in a system with a veritable nightmare.

/sigh. Not this again. Firstly, I have a request. That being, if you want to debate this more, that we shift it to msn. That's primarily because it's coming down to assumptions of character, or somesuch. Which aren't really getting the thread anywhere.

Uhm, NS is freeform. That's all I really need to say to justify my existence in this forum as it pertains to what you just said.


Not entirely. This roleplay universe still exists under one limiting concept. NS itself. Your nation, whether you like it or not, still exists under the limitations of the age and population of the NS nation you are roleplaying will. NS universe = based on the game, and hence that is a justifiable limit on the freeform roleplay that as far as I can tell by your 'old nations can claim to have more population' comment, you at least somewhat agree with, or accept.

If I wanted to impose restrictions, I'd bring up those dopey "economic calenders" (nevermind they don't respect if you're communist, have no concept of money, totally ignore the story of a nation, etc)


Yes, I don't like it because I view it as running away from taking damage by use of technology I might not agree with.

This is pretty much going to be a responce to a lot of your questions, so I'll state it here. Then why did you not simply take Balrogga up on his offer that he would leave in this thread instead of leaving it out? If you know so much about the NS universe, you'll know Balrogga's and your roleplay styles probably wouldn't go together.


There is no 'established' universe, NS has been, and always will be a multiverse; there is in fact a need for this arrangement for things such as nations claiming the same Sol based planet, or one nation ignoring another; think of the chaos it would brew if everyone had to decide who they could or could not RP with because of problems in a single universe. Also, I will say this: a 200 page thread on research doesn't make something less wanky or unacceptable ot me or anyone else; I can make a research thread longer than anything most anyone else could ever manage, yet that doesn't make the concept I am researching less wanky if I had just forgone that and said "I have this universe destroying weapon, so hah."

There is an 'etablished' universe, and the fact that there are many 'established' universes only enhances the point that Balrogga's universe, containing his nation and his existance and his tech, is interacting with yours, which contains whatever you've decided it contains. Ie, a multiverse of interaction, with each 'universe' being the universe of that nation. A 200 page thread on research may not make the technology less wanky, but it does give fair and justifiable support to Balrogga's statement of "hey, hang on a sec here, you haven't even STATED you've done any research into this field of tech whatsoever, how can you just claim to have ftli accomplished enough to remove the avantages of a tech you haven't even acknowledged up until now, and even then in a ooc fashion". If you want to go with an example, it's more along the lines of 'I have this solar system destroying weapon that relies on temporal disruption, and I'm never going to abuse it in a context that might actually hurt someone's universe, and if you don't like it I simply won't use it vs you', and you come out and a say "No, I can counter your temporal weapon with my 'generic insert weapon here', despite not having any justifiable reason for you to believe that.' You know as well as anyone else, if you truly are an 'expierienced roleplayer' that people will be worried about that, after the SQ debacle. that is what your initial posts made it out to be, although you've clarified it since then.

Er. No. Hell no. Fuck no. Burn it with fire. I argued against this very same bullshit with SQ during his reign of infamy in the NS forum, in which he attempted to run roughshod over everyone because he had been around a daylonger than they had and thus had better technology. The potency of anything is up, to me. Granted everyone else has to accept it or its moot, but no one other than myself has final say over how my tech works, why it works, and what it does.


SQ is a flawed example of the concern I put forward. SQ attempted to crush people based on a day, or some weak and pathetic excuse. In the posts you made BEFORE this one, you very much gave the impression of "I don't give a damn about how good Balrogga's tech is, I say I can counter it and I have no proof to the contrary". If you know so well the inner workings of this forum, why didn't you simply post a disclaimer, or take Barlogga up on his offer imediately? The impression you've given me is you've made a wonderful thread (It was, just because we disagree I won't deny that), someone made a half-hearted joke and the first thing you did instead of going "hey, I'm trying to write a story here, can you not throw that tech around", you immediately stated how you could stop Balrogga's tech with your FTli without giving a reasonable justification, period. That's as much a confrontational stance as anything else, and from discussions with Balrogga he belived that was the impression you gave.


Er. No. The ships are as strong as my plot demands, and right now my plot demands that the ships be pretty damn strong. I never claimed the best of everything anyhow, that's just your rather... odd interpretation of what happened in that thread. Also, I do not and have never subscribed to the belief that older = better tech, that older = better military. Older means you have more men to throw in the grinder, and that you likely have more allies than a newer guy, but in the world of freeform RP, Old != teh bestest.


Not entirely. What you've failed to note here is that Old = Older, ie, existing for a larger period of time in both an ooc and ic context. Hence, they're rightly justified when you come out with such an agressive and confrontational stance on Tech and they may go 'hey, ... dodgy'. If you want to run with an Example of Seaquest, what did he do the first time around? He claimed his tech was good as everyone elses or better, he didn't justify as to why, and became agressive, confrontational and nasty towards people. I'll agree you weren't nearly as extreme, but at the same time one cannot deny the manner if which you've constructed the thread had given a slightly negative impression. You see, the big difference here is in your post basically personally attacking me, you then decide to tell us it's for the purposes of the story. My question is, why did you not mention this earlier? Seriously, such a consideration would have ended any and all concern in this thread. You want your Tech to "stop ruining bullshit", but your post and the manner in which you treated Balrogga gave exactly the opposite opinion to 3 different people, that you were being at least mildly confrontational. And as for the discussion on the validity of Being able to stop Dimensional research, that's Balroggas concern, not mine, so I won't respond to it.

Which basically defines this entire thread as a misunderstanding, one side worried about Godmodding which makes stories bad for everyone (aka SQ) and the other wanting to tell a good story.


You see, you come in here trying to educate someone who has been around almost as long as you have, as to how RPing is supposed to work, then you prove you have no idea what you're talking bout as far as telling a story goes, and manage to sound like the temporal tech wankers during the accord days. If you don't like the concept: don't participate, that's what's awesome about NS: if you don't want to do something, you ain't gotta. If I don't want to go by your odd set of rules and procedures for telling a good story, then I won't. There is no boundary of believability when you're telling a good story, which is my intention; I don't care to be the next Sith or Melkor as far as having 'power' goes, I care about telling a story from the viewpoint of an expansionist warrior nation.

See, the funny thing here is that All I've said is merely that you take time and establish some believability about your nation, as per all nation to prevent the usual godmodding boredom that occurs when people claim 50x times what the artifical population limits of the game impose. IE, those usual concerns over GMing. There is a big difference between brushing off someone's blatantly superior tech that they believe justifies what they've done, particularly when it isn't taken in godmodding context (although arguably wanky), which you seemed to have done on the opening posts, and just going "this is a story roleplay, I'm claiming to be this good for a reason". Hence Balrogga would never have entered the thread. I thank you for clarifying, but I don't think you have any right to claim the things you have about me, if you're 'old' enough to know people would be concerned about the way you acted. This is because your opening impression given was that of a person who didn't care about tech differencies when all you wanted was to preserve a story.

As far as fairness goes: you're strict rules structure is wholly unfair to new people, as it forces them to do stupid levels of research before they actually start being able to fight more established players because they "have better tech." And is a system I would rather throw through a wood chipper, than I would follow anyday. I'm not trying to be unfair to Bal; I want to tell a story that is free to being changed by the interaction of others, yet at the same time I don't want that story to be dominated by the use of dimensional technology that basically makes my concept a useless detail in my own intro thread.


Yes and no. What it claims is that to fight people in a strictly held, no barred context without any negotiation between the two players, the older nation should more than likely have an advantage as their raw population of NS stats is larger, and since that is the only restriction on freeform roleplay that should transcribe into an advantage. If that is a system you would throw through a woodchipper, nevermind the person behind the nation is still there to deflate/inflate their advantages to continue a new roleplay with a 'newbie', why are you playing a game where the only limitation on freeform roleplay is the population of a nation in the first place? And of course, you stil have the right to veiw otherwise, but why you didn't simply define this when you are probably aware a fair few people believe in some guidelines for new roleplayers and they might be concerned is beyond me. But then again, this seems to be a misunderstanding, they happen. Furthermore, I'd liek to state I didn't explain as to how strict the rules where, or whatnot. Merely that flouting those guidelines will be considered unfair to some of the roleplayers.

I must say I find it odd: I want to tell a story, you want to stick to some strange wargame construct that is not conducive in the slightest to story telling. This story is one of violence, and its affects on other cultures, and the individual people of those cultures. I don't care whether or not you like the concept, Xenon, you can never interact with me for the rest of my RPing career and it won't matter at all, because all I care about is the story, and not technology or techwank. The only thing anyone has ever needed to know about my tech, is that it's as strong as I decide it needs to be for the sake of the plot at the time, otherwise there's just no point.


It's a little more complex than that. You open a roleplay, a chap named balrogga walks in. If you are expierienced, you should know he might be concerned by you brushing his tech off without explaining it's simply because you want a good story, and to hell with restraints. You should know he might be concerned, and yet the first thing you do is say the tech of a younger nation, for no discernable reason whatsoever, with no previous evidence to the contrary, is able to stop the joking exploit of Balrogga. Who was simply trying to have a joke at your moderate expense. Surely you'd also be aware some people might be concerned that someone such as you, with such an opening post, might one day head into the borderline godmodding "why can't I have all the big guns right here right now .. and USE THEM ON YOU" atitude we've had in the future.

Are you justified to inflate/deflate power for a roleplay that contains only you, or when you notify us beforehand? Yes

Is your opinion right given NS is 'freeform'? (ofc, we can debate the ns pop restriction all day) Yes

Did Others believe your atitude implied you were everything but the opposite of what you've outlined here? Yes

Hence, is this entire concerns thread just a misunderstanding that both sides could have avoided, you by being more specific as to who you were (a smurf, puppet, whatever) wanting a storyline roleplay and us being a little jumpy on the gun? Yes.

The Avatars are basically drone versions of the ship at are expendable. The Parent Ship sits in T-Space while the Avatar is dropped to Real Space. The controls of the ship are locked into the Avatar and it controls it. This means there is no way to control the parent and if anything happened to it in T-Space then it would be defenseless (other than minor navagational sheilds incase of debris or other small collisions). Also, the parent cannot switch back to their own systems very fast. It takes a few minutes at best.

The Avatar is nowhere as powerful as the Parent.

The first advantage you have is the drone is not constructed out of Kythons, unlike the parent ship. That is a major advantage that if you don’t understand then you should just take my word on it. Think of a hybrid form of Necron type creatures that are nastier. I try to only use them in higher powered RPs and in major wars (like the ESUS/GFFA).

Secondly, there are some weapons I possess that cannot be used in Avatar, as well as defenses.


So, yes you should be able to destroy the Avatar but it will take it’s share with it and the Parent will be drifting in T-Space for a while without control and minimal shields.

Also, there is a fundamental weakness in my drives that cause a catastrophic failure resulting in an instant one shot kill. Unfortunately it has to be discovered ICly (I am very big on the IC/OOC bit, as you can tell) and nobody has tried so far even though there are a few hints buried here and there.


Now, can we either stop the bickering and continue with the RP or should I delete my posts and leave your Thread?


Also, I am wondering what other nations you have played. You told Xenonier you have been around almost as long as he has but this is a Feb 06 nation. This indicates you have had other nations.

This is all when you've made exactly fifteen posts and haven't roleplayed or documented the construction of any of this. Real Life NS time spent roleplaying = Proportional to the amount of technology and the potency you posses (alongside other factors like having help).

Can you please link me to the research thread which documented your nation's development of FTL technology? FTL technology is a sophisticated and advanced form of technology, you shouldn't have it unless you RPed researching it for a few months.

Can you please link me to the research thread which documented your nations's development of sublight propulsion technology? Sublight propulsion is a sophisticated and advanced form of technology, you shouldn't have it unless you RPed researching it for a few months.

Can you please link me to the research thread which documented your nation's development of forging metals? Forging metal... well, you get the idea.

New players start RPing with understanding of metalworking, without complaint. New players start RPing with understanding of nuclear physics, without complaint. New players start RPing with understanding of ion drives and the like without complaint. New players start RPing with understanding of faster than light travel without complaint. New players start RPing with understanding of dimensional travel, and somehow that constitutes a gross violation of believability? Of course it does! That's the level established players happen to be on at the moment, so they must have a monopoly on it so that they can remain 'powerful'. And when you move on to the next fictional concept, you will suddenly stop caring whether people start their RPing careers with so-called 'dimensional tech' as well. Well I'm afraid that this is hypocritical - you either demand people to research every single piece of technology they possess, or none at all. Warp generators don't just grow on trees either, you know.

That's why this game is freeform. To stop nonsense like this ever taking place.

While I am not going to refute your statements I will tell you I don't think they pertain to the RP. At no time do I recall telling him he was not allowed to possess D Tech. I only said I didn't think his FTLi affected me since I never achieved C.

I do invite you to take it to the Argument Thread linked in my sig below. I created it so Threads could contain relevent posts but there would still be a place for other forms of arguments. I do hope you take me up on my suggestion. I'll look for you there.

Hello guys. I read the IC thread. how much have I missed?

Nothing much that can't be read.

I honestly wanted to ICly point out he wasted all those resources on the planet and he is now stuck feeding a billion captives. I guess I should have just walked in knocking instead of doing it in a non-boring way, although it was something they would have done ICly. That is their standard approach they have been using for some time so the appearance I used is quite in character with demonstrated actions previously taken in other RPs over the last few months. You are free to check if you wish. A simple search will show the tendacy I have used here.

There were mistakes made by both sides that I will not mention and now I just want to either have the RP continue or have him tell me what is up with my offer to leave the RP.

I guess I will sleep on it because I was up all night working a 16 hr shift and I am ready to crash. I'll check back after I wake up.

Personally I dont see the problem with jump in, jump out ships anymore myself. Its not like its actually hard to deal with. Take the scenario a ship is cloaking in and out or warping in and out. Well there has to be a power release of some sort, track it. Use a psychic, use a computer that can do it. Use awesome targetting. All it takes is a little writing and RP, once you figured out that you can track where they come out or what not, now you can shoot the ships.

Honestly I dont see whats so hard about it, its only a trick that ever works once on any given opponent. Unless of course the opponent is utterly uncreative and cant think of any way out of a situation but mathematical application of firepower. Hell I wont even take casualties against "I r fire at u" unless its well done and involves at least some strategy. Its safe to assume that with FT weapon advances, defensive advances were just as profound to keep up.

As for writing makes power, that is a correct statement. Balrogga put alot of time in to his dimensional research, its respected by 99% of FT, the only people who dont respect are either A) a tiny group of people, or B) New players who want to get in to the big wars.

If you dont like it thats fine. However there are ways around it if your creative. All of this is just writing and story. It doesnt matter what the effect is, its a little trick that works well at first. Until you yourself as the defender ICly figures out a way around it. For me its DEM scanners that can track them in their other universe or the 1 second psychic flashes of the DCC. The fact is , truthfully if you had made any ic effort to try and track where they come out, its like Balrogga would have obliged, maybe even stopped doing the cloak as it would become A WASTE OF POWER to continue if you could stop it.

FTLi is god modding, however being invincible is as well. This isnt invincibility until the person just says, no that wont work to every possible way of getting around it. You would find most people are here to have fun and write a good story. His ships coming in, your gunners desperate to track them till one smart commander figures it out and passes the info down the line.

Why not just try something like that?

New players start RPing with understanding of metalworking, without complaint. New players start RPing with understanding of nuclear physics, without complaint. New players start RPing with understanding of ion drives and the like without complaint. New players start RPing with understanding of faster than light travel without complaint.
Of course they start with an understanding of all of these. However, to expect them to have an in-depth understanding of an alien technology which they've never encountered is impossible, much less counter it. It would be the same as encountering an alien species and being able to synthesize an effective nerve agent based entirely on one look you got of them over a rather staticky comm channel.

Other that, I'll just agree completely with what Tannelorn said above.

Dimensional tech, along with time travel is the most wanky FT out there.

I beg to differ. It's actually quite fun. Being able to flit through different dimensions is quite fun, and great for creating prisons (make your own hell dimension!) and RPs. That and it's pretty much neccessary in some small form for any FT (well, any FT where you want to have less than a century between engagements).

Dim-Tech is no different from any other tech. It can be abused, but by itself, there's nothing wrong with it. Hell, most macroconstruction tends to be far wankier than a simple dimension-flitting craft.

As a matter of fact, I don’t even use FTLi because of the way it is mistakenly generalized and misunderstood. If a single FTLi can prevent every type of FTL then it is by definition a godmod.... Why?

The point of any-and-all kinds of FTL-interdiction is to avoid 'Jump in, deploy bomb, jump out. Time passed: .01 milliseconds' idiocy.

It does not prevent the interdicted side from taking out whatever is interdicting via conventional means. It does not prevent it from shooting, it doesn't compromise its armour, and it doesn't (usually) interfere with its perception. Nevermind that the interdicting side is naturally also affected by catch-all interdiction - it can by definition not be a godmode if it has the same effect on both sides.

In any case. The interdicted side can do everything with the exception of running away instantaneously. And even then, there's nothing to stop it from running away 'Slowly' ('Slow' in terms of written space opera), until it leaves the effective interdiction envelope.

And as FTL is (Usually) a plotdevice to avoid taking decades for interstellar travel, as opposed to being used in a weaponised fashion, this really doesn't tip balance.

Whereas FTL that allows, lets say, instantaneous jumps over interstellar distances allows one to near-completely ignore logistics and force distribution - one can always have whatever one needs, wherever one needs it.

Which does tip the balance with everyone who doesn't use this kind of FTL, and is therefore vastly closer to a godmode than FTL-interdiction could ever hope to be.

*Listens to favorite Clash song.*

...should I stay or should I go now
If I go there will be trouble
And I stay there will be double
So come on and let me know...

Alright, sorry guys but I am BACK IN BUSINESS! I just quit my hellish job at McHell, and am able to more actively interact with people here. I was even able to log onto MSN tonight, though only for about five minutes before a 4-page essay up and bit me in the ass. Irregardless of all that though, whether you know me by Niiatar or something else I am going to be more actively RPing now, I just need a die of rest after staying up till 2:32 AM to recuperate all this lost energy.

So yeah, have we ever decided what is going on?

I think we settled on Balrogga offering to edit his posts to be more appropriate and a tad less antagonistic, particularly considering his primary purpose (based on his current IC views) is to actually help yer forces out rather than piss them off...

I've been waiting to hear from you. I know RL takes first priority so take care of yourself first and get what needs to be done first.

I don't have internet access from home at this time unless I am using my cell phone to post. It sucks but it works. Otherwise I can get online at work Friday and Saturday overnights Centeral Time. I will try to take my laptop to the library or something to catch a wireless signal. When would be good for you to talk if you wanted?

I noticed you made a comment about being another player in your last post. That doesn't matter because that is OOC info that isn't part of the RP between our two nations. If you wish to email me, use the same hotmail account I telegramed to you last week. If you need it again, just let me know and I will resend it.

It is good to hear you are interested in finishing this.