NationStates Jolt Archive

Hatarian Land Forces Crash Modernization Equipment Procurement Program

This is a massive contract for anyone who can fulfil the needs. Timeframe is 1 NS month, all goods to be delivered to Hatarian and Western Hatarian ports and airports. We do not expect a single source to be able to supply all of a single order, so if you can only supply part of an order, that's alright.

Feel free to suggest alternatives as long as they are either MT Russian equipment or based on MT Russian equipment. Market price plus five percent will be paid for each item, on delivery. Transport is the seller's problem.

New Assault Rifles needed: 100,000,000
-Preferred weapon is the AK-103; however any weapons that can also use 7.62mm Soviet are acceptable for the moment (once production can be ramped up and factories retooled, the AK-103 will become the standard
-1,000,000,000 rounds of 7.62mm ammunition

Squad Machineguns
-20,000,000 KPV 14.5mm heavy machineguns
-1,000,000,000 rounds of 14.5mm ammunition

RPGs
-60,000,000 RPG-29s
-5,000,000,000 rounds of each type of ammunition

ATGMs
-50,000,000 Kornet ATGM launchers
-400,000,000 Kornet ATGMs

Vehicles
-10,000,000 x heavy truck
-10,000,000 x medium truck
-10,000,000 x light truck
-75,000 x Tunguska anti-aircraft vehicle
-All T-55s to be converted to TR-85 standard
-All T-62s and T-64s to be replaced with T-84 Yataganss
-750,000 T-90 Main Battle Tanks
-500,000 BMP-3s
-500,000 BTR-90s
-500,000 BMPTs

Attack Helicopters
-10,000 Ka-50s

Transport Helicopters
-15,000 Mi-26s

We are willing to provide 15 Million surplus Hali-37 Assault Rifles with empty Magazines for a price of one hundred universal standard dollars per unit, this low price is not due to the quality of manufacture but due to the fact that they are surplus weapons. They are designed for the required 7.62mm Soviet Cartridge. We will also be willing to provide one billion rounds of 7.62mm Soviet Ammunition Free of Charge.

(you might want a bit more ammo than that, that is only 10 rounds per gun)

1 million tanks? NO.

We can provide all vehicles (those tank numbers REALLY need revising...) for you if an extra 2% profit is added.

1 million tanks? NO.

We can provide all vehicles (those tank numbers REALLY need revising...) for you if an extra 2% profit is added.

OOC: For Hataria? Really?

1 million tanks? NO.

We can provide all vehicles (those tank numbers REALLY need revising...) for you if an extra 2% profit is added.

In one Month? Hes buying surplus effectively

Profit is profit. Besides, not like I can't brutally crush 1980s era soviet army tech.

In one Month? Hes buying surplus effectively

I could definetly turn out the trucks, with surplus.

Official Message from the Socialist Sultanate Duchydom of Franberry
We offer two companies wich can fullfill alot of your requests, at least in part. Specialty Pie Manufacturers and Franberrian Motors will do their best to assist you.

Here are their communications:

Message from Specialty Pie Manufacturers

SPM has recived your offer, and we feel we can contribute greately to it. Using our Liano Plant, we can produce millions of land weapons systems.

The Liano Plant can manufacture many of your requests.

x10,000,000 AK-103s
each one with 90 rounds of ammo

x2,000,000 PRG-29s
each with 5 rounds

x10,000,000 T-90 MBTs
x500,000 BMP-3s
(both of these will take more than a month)


Message from Franberrian Motors

We would be pleased to do our bit in filling your oder. We are able to produce:
1,000,000 (one million) heavy trucks, 2,000,000 (2 million) medium trucks and light trucks.

To Whom This May Concern,
After being notified of your recent request for huge volumes of various weapons, the Agrandov National Munitions Corporation feels obliged to contribute. We can supply 100,000 various light trucks immediately, all of these were designed and manufactured for military use although none have entered active service. We think that the fee of $180,000,000 USD would be appropriate for these vehicles.
In a related matter, we have just put our new R12E Assault Rifle (http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/8053/r12ecy0.png) and all its variants into full production. These highly modern yet reliable weapons are ideal for Special Forces or SWAT use, and have already found multiple contractors around the Agrandov Military.
These rifles are configured to accept 6.2x58mm caseless ammunition, which we can supply in great quantity for a minor fee. Alternatively, the rifles could be rechambered for 7.62x39mm ammunition for an extra $80 USD per rifle. We can supply up to 4.5 million rifles over the next month, for $700 each.

Hoping to be of service,
James C. Bishop
ANMC Primary Head of Transactions

(numbers revised a bit due to giving #draftroom heart palpitations)

Anything that can be supplied, bring it on. Payment will be rendered on delivery.

Agrandov, we regret to inform you that your rifle cannot be used; to maintain maximal compatiblity with existing stocks of ammunition, the only type of assault rifle ammo being accepted at this time is 7.62mm Soviet.

The UK reminds Axis Nova it can deliver equipment in greater quantities and faster than Agrandov can, and furthermore we are willing to sell each truck for thirty dollars less than Agrandov.

Whoever has the lowest prices and delivers the fastest wins. First come, first served-- we don't care if you people have your freighters shoot it out to beat each other to the docks as long as the stuff comes in.

Agrandov, we regret to inform you that your rifle cannot be used; to maintain maximal compatiblity with existing stocks of ammunition, the only type of assault rifle ammo being accepted at this time is 7.62mm Soviet.

Upon revising your requirements, it has been decided to offer you 3 million R12E Assault Rifles in 7.62mm Soviet. Shipments would take one week after a six week period of changing barrels for the weapon.
For a reduced fee of $500 USD per rifle, one in three would be shipped with a 40mm grenade launcher and another one in six would have a 2-4x telescopic sight.
Regrettably, we cannot supply any 7.62 Soviet ammunition at this time.

Yours,
James C. Bishop
ANMC Primary Head of Transactions

Due to the fact we have replaced are AK-103s with newer rifles, we are willing to sell you 100,000,000 AK-103s with 250,000 extra with 3,000,000,000 7.62 mm rounds.

Tanks also have been replaced and these can be sold off at low prices.

-145,000 T-90 Main Battle Tanks
and 200,000 tunguskas.


all for the low price of 12.3 million

Due to the fact we have replaced are AK-103s with newer rifles, we are willing to sell you 100,000,000 AK-103s with 250,000 extra with 3,000,000,000 7.62 mm rounds.

Tanks also have been replaced and these can be sold off at low prices.

-145,000 T-90 Main Battle Tanks
and 200,000 tunguskas.


all for the low price of 12.3 million

Deal. Start shipping immediately.

shipping will commence A.S.A.P., are you in need of helicopter gunships or heavy transport choppers aswell?

Due to the fact we have replaced are AK-103s with newer rifles, we are willing to sell you 100,000,000 AK-103s with 250,000 extra with 3,000,000,000 7.62 mm rounds.

Tanks also have been replaced and these can be sold off at low prices.

-145,000 T-90 Main Battle Tanks
and 200,000 tunguskas.


all for the low price of 12.3 million

OOC: Each, I should hope. A T-90 costs a couple million in and of itself, a tank column would cost more than that.

OOC: Each, I should hope. A T-90 costs a couple million in and of itself, a tank column would cost more than that.

OOC:I have used T-90s since my nation started so it would be fair to say i have plenty in stock, i also have a major arms manufacturing in my economy, aswell as a large defence budget. which would cover this minimal loss, most of the tanks would probably be scraped anyway since i have bought new production rights to new tanks.

OP updated with requirements for helicopters.

Maybe check my storefront (in sig)?

As its called "Soviet Storefront", I think you'll find what you are looking for.

Needs to be posted ITT so I can track orders, sorry.

Attack Helicopters
-10,000 Ka-50s

Transport Helicopters
-15,000 Mi-26s


we can give you 3000 Mi-28s, 6000 Hind gunships

and 8000 Mi-26s

for 8.9 mil.

we can give you 3000 Mi-28s, 6000 Hind gunships

and 8000 Mi-26s

for 8.9 mil.

Deal. We still require the others listed as well, however.

OOC:I have used T-90s since my nation started so it would be fair to say i have plenty in stock, i also have a major arms manufacturing in my economy, aswell as a large defence budget. which would cover this minimal loss, most of the tanks would probably be scraped anyway since i have bought new production rights to new tanks.

OOC: Its not that its too cheap. Its that its incrediby, might as well be given for free, cheap.

Even if you were only giving him the tanks, he would be paying 85 dollars for each tank. This isn't including the guns and Tunguskas.

Top Secret Message from Red Tide Mafia
"We have up too 1 million Kornet lanuchers laying around doing nothing but gathering dust, as well as six million Kornets.

We'll sell them to you for 40 mil."
End Message

OOC: Its not that its too cheap. Its that its incrediby, might as well be given for free, cheap.

Even if you were only giving him the tanks, he would be paying 85 dollars for each tank. This isn't including the guns and Tunguskas.


OOC: the $85 dollars is for beer money ;)

Deal. We still require the others listed as well, however.

i am afraid this is all we can offer, unlike our tanks, these helicopters are still in use. We also do not carry Ka-50s

Top Secret Message from Red Tide Mafia
"We have up too 1 million Kornet lanuchers laying around doing nothing but gathering dust, as well as six million Kornets.

We'll sell them to you for 40 mil."
End Message

Deal. Please begin shipment immediately.

Ok, you go it here:

AK-108 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-108)
Caliber, mm: 5,56NATO
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt with 2 lugs, balanced bolt-carrier/bolt group to reduce recoil jumping
Length, mm: overall: 943; w. stock folded 700;
barrel lenght: 415 mm
Sighting range,m: 1000
Weigth, g: 3,400
Magazine capacity, rds: 30
Rate of fire: 900
Price: $570 USDs
Description: This system has 2 opposite moving gas pistons instead of one. main gas piston drives bolt carrier (via gas rod), secondary piston drives compensating mass (via its own rod) in direction, opposite to bolt carrier. This movement greatly reduced muzzle jump and increased accuracy in full-auto mode.

Nikonov AN-94 "Abakan" (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as08-e.htm)
Caliber: 5.45x39 mm
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt; moving barrel-receiver-gas drive group for delayed recoil action
Overall length: 943 mm (728 mm with butt folded)
Barrel length: 405 mm
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds
Weight, without magazine: 3.85 k g
Cyclic rate of fire: 1800 and 600 rounds per minute variable
Maximum effective range: 700 meters
Price: $620 USDs
Description: The key improvement of the AN-94 over the AK-74 is the introduction of the 2-rounds burst mode. The two rounds bursts are fired at very high rate of fire, and a trained shooter can make a single hole in the target at 100 meters in this mode. This allows for significant increase in lethality, stopping power and body armour penetration over the single shot mode, with the same "single shot" accuracy.

A-91 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as66-e.htm)
Caliber: 7.62x39mm and 5.56x45mm NATO
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: 660 mm
Weight: 3.97 kg empty (with integral grenade launcher)
Rate of fire: 600-800 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds
Price: $600 USDs
Description: While the A-91 retains the basic gas-operated, rotating bolt action and a trigger unit design from 9A-91, it features a bullpup polymer housing, with an integral 40 mm single-shot grenade launcher mounted under the barrel.

APS 95 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as58-e.htm)
Caliber: 5.56x45 mm NATO
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: 980 mm; (730 mm with stock folded)
Barrel length: 450 mm
Weigth: 3.8 kg empty
Rate of fire: 650 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 35 rounds
Price: $610 USDs
Description: APS 95 is a licensed copy of the Israeli Galil assault rifle (some sources said that it is a copy of the South African Vektor R-4 rifle, but it is, basically, the same Galil). APS 95 differs from Galil mostly in external appearance, having installed a 1.5X optical scope, which also serves as a carrying handle. Handguards and pistol grip also were redesigned.

Vepr (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as68-e.htm)
Caliber: 5.45x39 mm
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: 702 mm
Barrel length: 415 mm
Weight: 3.45 kg empty
Rate of fire: 600-650 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds
Price: $610 USDs
Description: The Vepr has been advertised as a major improvement over AK-74, but, in fact, it is no more than yet another conversion of standard AK-74 into bullpup layout. The standard AK-74 is stripped from its furniture, and the buttplate is fitted directly to the receiver; polymer cheek rest is fitted to the receiver cover, and pistol grip is fitted ahead of the magazine; the cocking handle is moved to the left side of the forearm, but the safety/fire selector lever remained in the same position.
Relatively large red dot scope of Ukrainian manufacture is fitted as a standard. Latest version of the Vepr also feature an integral 40mm underbarrel grenade launcher, with dual trigger arrangement (front trigger controls launcher, rear trigger controls the rifle).

AGS-30 (http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl22-e.htm)
Caliber: 30x29B
Type: blowback operated, belt fed automatic grenade launcher
Overall length: 1100 mm
Weight: 16 kg gun complete with tripod
Effective range: up to 800 m point targets; 1700 m maximum range
Rate of fire: 400 rounds per minute
Price: $1200 USDs
Description: It can be easily carried trough battlefield by a single man; its proprietary lightweight mounts provides wide arc of fire and allows for indirect fire at longer distances. This weapon is used mostly in infantry fire support applications, and also is installed on several Infantry Combat Vehicles of recent Russian manufacture.

RG-6 / 6G30 (http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl16-e.htm)
Caliber: 40mm VOG-25
Type: revolver type multi-shot
Overall length: 680 mm buttstock retracted; 520mm buttstock collapsed
Weight: 6.2 kg unloaded
Effective range: up to350 m
Capacity: 6 rounds
Price: $850 USDs
Description: The RG-6 uses "caseless" rounds, and thus its cylinder is loaded from the front. The "barrel" is, in fact, a smoothbore tube, which served only as a support for front grip and sights; each chamber in the cylinder is a separate muzzle-loading rifled barrel. Cylinder is rotated using clockwork-type spring, which is manually wound during reloading. For reloading, the front cylinder plate with the "barrel" tube are unlocked from the frame and then rotated sideways, to expose the front of the cylinder.

GM-94 (http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl27-e.htm)
Caliber: 43mm
Type: multi-shot, manually reloading, cartridge firing
Overall length: 810 mm (540mm with shoulder stock folded)
Weight: 4.8 kg unloaded
Effective range: up to 300 m
Magazine capacity: 3 rounds
Price: $800 USDs
Description: GM-94 is a weapon for urban warfare - its main goal is to provide troops with short and very short range weapon firing high explosive and non-lethal (tear gas) shells. It uses proprietary 43mm ammunition, available in several loadings. Kill radius is said to be about 3 meters, while safe standoff (minimal range of fire) range is only few meters more. Therefore, such ammunition can be safely used during room-to-room searches from very short range, without the danger of hitting the operator or his teammates with occasional fragments.

RPG-29 (http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl04-e.htm)
Caliber: 105 mm barrel; 65/105mm warheads
Type: rocket booster
Overall length: 1850 mm ready to fire; 1000 mm disassembled for transportation
Weight: 12.1 kg unloaded, with optical sight; 18.8 kg loaded and ready to fire
Effective range: up to 500 m
Armour penetration: ERA plus more than 600 mm RHA
Price: $1700 USDs
Description: the RPG-29 is a shoulder fired, single-shot, smooth-bored, recoilless launcher. Unlike previous RPG-series launchers, the RPG-29 is a breech-loading weapon, with large caliber barrel, made from two quick-detachable parts, front and rear. Rear part of the barrel is fitted with folding monopod support. The PG-29 HEAT grenade has a tandem warhead and a rocket booster with eight folding stabiliztator fins at the rear. With this design, the smaller front warhead is intended to set off the ERA (Explosive Reactive Armor) block from the safe range, and then second larger warhead strikes the hull of the tank. When used against buildings or entrenchments, the PG-29V can penetrate more than 1,5 meter (5ft) of concrete or brick wall and then cause significant damage to troops beyond the wall.

SA-7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-7)
Price: $3000 USDs
Description: The 9K32 "Strela-2" (Russian 9К32 "стрела-2" - arrow, NATO reporting name SA-7 "Grail") is a man-portable, shoulder-fired, low-altitude surface-to-air missile (SAM) system similar to the US Army REDEYE, with a high explosive warhead and passive infrared homing guidance.

9K34 Strela-3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-14_Gremlin)
Price: $7000 USDs
Description: The 9K34 "Strela-3" (Russian 9К34 "Стрела-3" - arrow, NATO reporting name SA-14 "Gremlin") man-portable air defence missile system (MANPADS) was developed in Soviet Union as a response to the poor performance of the earlier 9K32 "Strela-2" (NATO reporting name SA-7 "Grail") system.

SA-18 Grouse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-18_Grouse)
Price: $10000 USDs
Description: The 9K38 "Igla" (Russian 9К38 "Игла́" – needle, NATO reporting name SA-18 Grouse) is a Russian/Soviet man-portable infrared homing surface-to-air missile (SAM) system. Its most advanced version, the Igla, has an all-aspect engagement capability.

9M133 Kornet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kornet-E)
Engine: solid-fuel rocket
Launch mass: 27 kg
Length: 120 cm
Diameter: 15.2 cm
Range: 0.1 - 5.5 km
Warhead: shaped-charge HEAT tandem warhead, with armour penetration of about 1200 mm of RHA, or 980 mm behind explosive reactive armour. Thermobaric anti-personnel/anti-material warhead is also available.
Guidance: SACLOS laser beam riding
Price: $10000 USDs
Description: The KBP Instrument Design Bureau unveiled the Kornet in October 1994, and it is believed the missile entered service in the Russian army the same year. It is a heavy ATGM intended to replace earlier 9K111 Fagot (NATO: AT-4 Spigot) and 9K113 Konkurs (NATO: AT-5 Spandrel) wire-guided ATGMs in both vehicle and tripod mounts. The missile is capable of engaging helicopters. A variant with a thermobaric warhead is produced for use against soft-skinned vehicles, exposed personnel and fortifications.

9M127 Khrizantema (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT-15_Khrizantema)
Length: 2.057 m
Diameter: 150 mm
Wingspan: 310 mm
Range: 400 m to 6000 m
Warhead:
o 9M123 Tandem HEAT with a reported penetration of 1200 mm versus RHA
o 9M123F Fuel air explosive
Speed: 400 m/s
Price: $12000 USDs
Description: AT-15 is the NATO reporting name for the Russian 9M127 Khrizantema (Russian: "Chrysanthemum") radar-guided or laserbeam-riding anti-tank missile system. It was designed to deal with the latest generation of main battle tanks including the M1A2 and the Leopard 2. It can also be used to engage slow flying helicopters.

Triple MiniGun "Chainsaw" aka "The Saw" (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/triplemini2.jpg) *TWSP Original*
caliber: 7,62x51 mm
weigth: 65 kg MG itself, 75 kg with tripod
Feeding: Belt (amount can vary)
Rate of fire: 18,000 rounds/min (if used non-stop)
Price: $12000 USDs
Description: The "Chainsaw" is a belt fed, fully auto, vehicle and bunker-deployable heavy machine gun. Its intended to be used as an Anti-Infantry weapon although it can be used against light armoured vehicles such as cars, some APCs and helicopters.
Designed and built by the state-owned "Soviet Arms Co.", this... thing is a force to be reckoned with.
Its is extremely recommended that men serving this weapon use ear muffs due to the probabilty of the noise it makes when fired hurting your internal ear (or whatever its called).

Kord 12.7 (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg24-e.htm)
caliber: 12,7x109 mm
weigth: 25.5 kg MG itself, 41.5 kg on 6T7 tripod mount with 50 rds belt
Length: no data
Length of barrel: no data
Feeding: belt 50 rounds
Rate of fire: 650-750 rounds/min
V0: 820-860 m/s
Price: $1500 USDs
Description: The "Kord" is belt-fed, air-cooled, gas-operated full-auto only machine gun. It uses different from the NSV locking principle - barrel locking is achieved via breechblock device. Belt (same as in NSV) could be feed from both left and right sides. Barrel is quickly changeable, it has a special technology that ensures axially symmetrical heating of the barrel during the fire and thus retaining good accuracy during sustained fire for longer amount of time (and ammo).

RPD (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg14-e.htm)
Caliber 7,62x39 mm
Weigth 7,4 kg empty, on integral bipod
Length 1037 mm
Length of barrel 520 mm
Feeding belt 100 rounds in drum-like box
Rate of fire 650 rounds per minute
Muzzle velocity 735 m/s
Price: $900 USDs
Description: The RPD is a gas operated, full auto only weapon. Gas drive uses a long stroke piston and a gas regulator, located under the barrel. It uses a simple and robust bolt locking system, which uses two locking flaps, that are pushed out of the bolt body into recesses in the receiver walls to lock the bolt. Flaps are pushed out by the bolt carrier to lock and are withdrawn from recesses to unlock the bolt by specially shaped cams on the carrier. RPD is belt feed. A detachable round box (drum) can be clipped under the receiver too though.

NSV-12,7 "Utes" (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg02-e.htm)
Caliber: 12,7x108 mm
Weight: 25 kg gun body; 41 kg on tripod 6T7 with 50 rounds of ammo
Length: 1560 mm (1900 mm on 6T7 tripod)
Feeding: belt 50 rounds
Rate of fire: 700-800 rounds/min
Price: $1300 USDs
Description: The NSV is a gas operated, belt fed machine gun. It can fire only in full automatic mode, from open bolt to avoid dangers of the cartridge cook-off in the hot barrel. Upon the fire, barrel is locked by the breech block (bolt), which is tipped to the lefty to engage locking recesses in the left wall of the receiver. Barrel is quick-detachable, fitted with carrying handle and a conical flash hider. NSV is fed using non-disintegrating belts, each holding 50 rounds. Gun is fitted with mechanical trigger and a manual safety at the rear of the receiver.

T-90 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-90)
Crew: 3
Length: 9.53 m
Width: 3.78 m
Height: 2.22 m
Weight: 46.5 tonnes
Armour: 830 mm RHAe vs. APFSDS, 1,350 vs. HEAT
Main armament: 125 mm smoothbore gun with ATGM capability
Secondary armament: 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun, 12.7 mm anti-aircraft machine gun
Power plant: 12-cyl. diesel
1,000 hp (750 kW)
Suspension: torsion bar
Road speed: 65 km/h
Power/weight: 22 hp/tonne
Range: 375 km, 550 km with external tanks
Price: 3,000,000 USDs
Description: The T-90 is the newest main battle tank (MBT) of the Russian army, a further development of the T-72.
Military Ordnance magazine ranked the T-90S as the seventh best tank in the world in 1998.

PT-91 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT-91)
Crew: 3
Length: 6.67 m
Width: 3.4 m
Height: 2.19 m
Weight: 43.5 tonnes
Armour: composite armour; front and side armor laminated; front, side and top armor behind Erawa-1/Erawa-2 ERA, steel side anti-cumulative screens
Main armament: 125mm gun 2A46 (D-81TM)
Secondary armament: 7.62mm PKT coaxial machine gun, 12.7mm NSWT AA machine gun
Power plant: diesel model S-12U
850 hp (630 kW)
Suspension: torsion bar
Road speed: 60 km/h
Power/weight: 20 hp/tonne
Range: 650 km
Price: 3,500,000 USDs
Description: The PT-91 Twardy (translated PT-91 Hardy, meaning resilient) is a Polish main battle tank. It is a very extensive modernization of the T-72M1. It entered service in 1995.

M-84 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-84)
Crew: 3
Length: 9.53 m
Width: 3.57 m
Height: 2.19 m
Weight: 44 tonnes
Armour: 560 mm
Main armament: 125mm 2A46 smoothbore gun
Secondary armament: 12.7mm M87 machine gun, 7.62mm M86 machine gun
Power plant: diesel V-46TK
1000 hp (745 kW)
Suspension: torsion bar
Road speed: 65 km/h
Power/weight: 22.72 hp/tonne
Range: 500-700km
Price: 3,400,000 USDs
Description: The M-84 main battle tank is a Yugoslav produced version of the Soviet T-72. Some improvements over the T-72 include a domestic fire-control system, improved composite armor, and a 1000-hp engine. The M-84 entered service with the Yugoslav People's Army in 1984. The improved M-84A entered service a few years later.

CHIORNY ORIOL (BLACK EAGLE) (http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/Tanks/MBT/b_eagle.html)
Weight: 50.0? metric tons
Crew: 3
Engine: Several options of diesel or turbine engines up to 1,500 hp
Power/Weight: 25-30 hp/tn
Main Weapon: 125mm 2A46M smoothbore
provision for installing other systems up to 152mm
Rate of fire: Over 12 rounds/min
Ammunition: 30 125mm rounds in the autoloader
Ammunition Types: APFSDS, HEAT, HEF ATGM through main gun
Equipment: UNKNOWN
Armor rating, mm RHA: Front turret 107..116cm vs APFSDS; 159..171cm vs HEAT
Glacis UNKNOWN
Price: 5,000,000 USDs
Description: The Black Eagle or "Object 640" which is its factory designation is based on a lengthened T-80 hull, with an extra pair of road wheels and a brand new turret. It appears to have very thick front armour and advanced explosive reactive armour on the hull and turret. The Black Eagle marks a deviation from standard Soviet tank design by swapping the carousel-style autoloader for a Western bustle-mounted autoloader, which may incorporate a blow-out armoured ammunition compartment for crew safety, like the U.S. M1 Abrams tank.

Mi-35 HIND (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/mi-24.htm)
Blades: Main rotor: 5, Tail rotor: 3
Rotor diameter: Main Rotor : 17.3 meters, Tail Rotor: 3.9 meters
Wing span:6.5 meters
Length : 21.6 m (rotors turning)
Length : 17.5 m (fuselage)
Height 13 ft., 11 in.
6.5 meters (gear extended)
Floor Length: 2.5 meters
Width: 1.5 meters
Height: 1.2 meters
Weight Maximum Gross: 11,500 kg
Normal Takeoff: 11,100 kg
Empty: 8,500 kg
Fuel Internal: 1,840 liters
Internal Aux Tank (in cabin): 1,227 liters
External Fuel Tank: 500 liters ea.
Engine 2 x 2,200 shp Isotov TV-3-117 turbines
Maximum speed: 168 mph / 335 km/h
Cruising speed: 295 km/h
Range
Normal Load: 450 km
With Aux Fuel: 950 km
Service Ceiling 4,500 meters
Hover
out of ground effect: 1,500 meters
in ground effect : 2,200 meters
Vertical Climb Rate 15 m/s
Max “G” Force 1.75 g
Standard Payload
Internal load: 8 combat troops or 4 litters
External weapons load: 1,500 kg
External load (no weapons): 2,500 kg
Armament
12.7-mm 4x Barrel Machinegun, YaKB-12.7:
Range (m): (practical) 1,500
Elevation/Traverse: 20° up to 60° down/ 120°
Ammo Type: HEFI, APT, Duplex, DuplexT
Rate of Fire (rpm): up to 4,500 (pilot selectable)
30-mm Twin Barrel Cannon, GSh-30K:
Range (m): (practical) 4,000
Elevation/Traverse: None (rigidly mounted)
Ammo Type: HEFI, HEI, APT, APE, CC
Rate of Fire (rpm): 300, or 2,000 to 2,600

# 750 - 1x twin 30-mm gun, or
# 1,470 - 12.7-mm 4 barrel turret gun
# 2-12 - AT-2C or AT-6C Spiral ATGMs
# 2-4 - 80-mm S-8 rocket pods (20 ea.)
# 2-4 - 57-mm S-5 rocket pods (32 ea.)
# 940 - GSh-23L twin 23-mm MG pods
# 4 - 250-kg bombs FAB-250
# 2 - 500-kg bombs
# 500 liters External fuel tanks

Most Probable Armament
# HIND D: Turret-mounted 4-barrel 12.7-mm Gatling type machinegun, 57-mm rockets, AT-2C/ SWATTER ATGMs.
# HIND E: Turret-mounted 4-barrel 12.7-mm Gatling type machinegun or twin barrel 23-mm turret gun, 57-mm rockets, AT-6C/ SPIRAL ATGMs.
# HIND F: Fixed 30-mm twin gun on the right fuselage side, 57-mm rockets, AT-6C/ SPIRAL ATGMs.
Loaded combat troops can fire personal weapons through cabin windows.
Sensors FLIR, RWR, laser designator
AVIONICS
# The ATGM targeting system uses a low-level light TV, a laser designator, FLIR, air data sensor, and a missile guidance transmitter.
# HIND D versions are primarily daytime aircraft only. Some HIND E and Mi-35 series export versions have upgraded night and weather capabilities, better avionics, weather radar, autopilot, HUD, GPS, NVG compatibility, more armor, and an increased weapons load provided by the French company Sextant Avionique.
Survivability
# Main and tail rotors electrically deiced.
# Infrared signature suppressors can be mounted on engine exhausts.
# Radar warning receivers, IFF, Infrared jammer, rotor brake, chaff and flares.
# Armored cockpit.
Crew: Two (pilots in tandem cockpits)
Price: 3,000,000 USDs

Mi-24 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-24)
General characteristics
* Crew: 3 (pilot, weapons system officer and technician)
* Capacity: 8 troops or 4 stretchers
* Length: 57 ft 4 in (17.5 m)
* Rotor diameter: 56 ft 7 in (17.3 m)
* Wingspan: 21 ft 3 in (6.5 m)
* Height: 21 ft 3 in (6.5 m)
* Disc area: 2,529.52 ft² (235 m²)
* Empty weight: 18,740 lb (8,500 kg)
* Max takeoff weight: 26 455 lb (12,000 kg)
* Powerplant: 2× Isotov TV-3 turbines, 2,200hp (1,600 kW) each
Performance
* Maximum speed: 208 mph (335 km/h)
* Range: 280 miles (450 km)
* Service ceiling: 14,750 ft (4,500 m)
Armament
* 12.7 mm YaKB-12.7 Yakushev-Borzov multi-barrel machinegun
* 1,500 kg of bombs
* 4× Anti-tank guided missiles (AT-2 Swatter or AT-6 Spiral)
* 4× 57 mm S-5 rocket pods or 4× 80 mm S-8 rocket pods
Price: 2,000,000 USDs
Description: The Mil Mi-24 is a large combat helicopter gunship and low-capacity troop transport operated from 1976 by the Soviet Air Force, its successors, and over thirty other nations.
Its NATO reporting name is Hind and variants are identified with an additional letter. The export versions, Mi-25 and Mi-35, are denoted as Hind D and Hind E respectively. Soviet pilots called the aircraft 'letayushiy tank' or flying tank. Another common nickname is 'Krokodil' (Crocodile) - due to the helicopter's camouflage and hull shape

Mi-28 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-28)
General characteristics
* Crew: 1 pilot (rear), 1 navigator/weapons operator (front)
* Length: 17.01 m (55 ft 9 in)
* Rotor diameter: 17.20 m (56 ft 5 in)
* Height: 3.82 m (12 ft 7 in)
* Empty weight: 8,095 kg (17,845 lb)
* Loaded weight: 10,400 kg (22,930 lb)
* Max takeoff weight: 11,500 kg (25,705 lb)
* Powerplant: 2× Klimov TV3-117VMA turboshaft, 1,450 kW (1,950 hp) each
Performance
* Maximum speed: 300 km/h (187 mph)
* Range: 1,100 km (640 miles)
* Service ceiling: 5,800 m (19,000 ft)
Armament
* 1x chin-mounted 30 mm Shipunov 2A42 cannon with 300 rounds (220° horizontal fire)
* up to 2,300 kg of disposable stores on four hardpoints, including bombs, rockets, missiles, and gunpods
Price: 2,500,000 USDs
Description: The Mil Mi-28 (NATO reporting name Havoc) is a Russian tandem two-seat anti-armour attack helicopter.
It is a dedicated attack helicopter with no intended secondary transport capability, better optimized than the Mi-24 for the anti-tank role. Carries a single gun in an undernose barbette, plus external loads carried on pylons beneath stub wings.

Kamov Ka-52 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-52)
General characteristics
* Crew: Two
* Length: 13.50 m (44 ft 3 in)
* Rotor diameter: 2x 14.50 m (47 ft 7 in)
* Height: 4.90 m (16 ft 1 in)
* Disc area: 330.3 m² (3,555 ft²)
* Empty weight: 7,800 kg (17,200 lb)
* Loaded weight: 9,800 kg (21,610 lb)
* Max takeoff weight: 10,400 kg (22,930 lb)
* Powerplant: 2× Klimov TV3-117VMA turboshafts, 1,638 kW (2,195 hp) each
Performance
* Maximum speed: 300 km/h (187 mph)
* Range: 1,160 km (723 miles)
* Service ceiling: 5,500 m (18,000 ft)
* Rate of climb: 60 m/s (1,970 ft/min)
* Disc loading: 30 kg/m² (6 lb/ft²)
* Power/mass: 0.33 kW/kg (0.20 hp/lb)
Armament
* 1x 30 mm Shipunov 2A42 cannon
* 2,000 kg (4,400 lb) of disposable stores on four pylons, including bombs and rockets
Price: 2,300,000
Description: The Kamov Ka-52 (also known as Ka-50-2, NATO reporting name Hokum), nicknamed the Alligator is a Russian attack helicopter.
It is a side-by-side two-seat aircraft designed as air-to-air attack helicopter, intended to eliminate enemy frontline helicopters. The 2 sets of coaxial, contra-rotating rotors eliminate the need for a tail rotor. The Ka-52 was designed with an emphasis on being small, quick, and agile to improve survivability.

Ka-32 Helix-C (http://www.enemyforces.com/helicopters/ka32.htm)
W. (tons): 12,6
Speed (km/h): 250
Dimensions (m): 15,9props
Alt. (m): 5'500
Range (km): 800
M./Engine: 2 TVD, TV3-117B, 2 x 1'638 kwt
Man./Crew: 2
Missiles: 8 Vihr, 80 NURS
Artillery: 30mm DP
Price: 1,750,000 USDs
Description:

Cargo & Transport Helicopters

Mi - 8 (http://www.enemyforces.com/helicopters/mi8.htm)
Crew: 3
Weight (empty): 6 965 kg
Take off weight: 11 100 kg
Maximum take off weight: 12 000 kg
Rotor diameter: 21 290 mm
Overall length (without rotors): 18 220 mm
Wing span: 4 750 mm
Overall height: 4 500 mm
Useful cargo load: 2 355 t
Maximum useful cargo load: 4 000 t
Maximum slung load: 3 000 kg
Cargo compartment dimensions: 5 340 x 2 340 x 1 800 mm
Passengers: 24 equipped troops or 12 patients
Machine gun: 7.62-mm PK
Engines: 2 x TV2-117
Engine power: 2 x 1 500 hp.
Cruise speed:225 km/h
Maximum speed: 250 km/h
Flight range (with normal load): 465 km
Flight range (with additional fuel tanks): 950 km
Hovering ceiling: 800 m
Service ceiling: 4 500 m
Price: 2,000,000 USDs
Description:The Mi-8 Transport Helicopter is the most massively produced helicopter in the world. In Soviet Union there were developed more than 50 various modifications of this helicopter and built approximately 12 000 helicopters including 3 600 built for export

Mi-26 (http://www.enemyforces.com/helicopters/mi26.htm)
Crew: 5
Weight (empty): 28 000 kg
Maximum take off weight: 56 000 kg
Rotor diameter: 2 000 mm
Maximum slung load: 20 000 kg
Passengers: 82 full equipped or 60 stretched
Engines: 2 x D-136 turboshaft
Engine power: 2 x ~9 000 - 10 000 hp.
Maximum speed: 295 km/h
Flight range (with normal load): 800 km
Hovering ceiling: 1 700 m
Service ceiling: 4 600 m
Price: 2,750,000 USDs
Description:The Mi-26 Heavy Military Transport Helicopter made it's first flight in 1978. This helicopter was intended to carry passengers and cargo in the cargo cabin or large cargo on the external slung. The Mi-26 "Halo" was intended to replace the Mi-6 Heavy Transport Helicopter which had lower useful cargo load and smaller cargo compartment as the analyze of the new and perspective Soviet Army infantry vehicles showed that 80 - 90% of all motorized infantry division cargo must be transported by helicopters.

Mi-17 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-17)
General characteristics
* Crew: Three[pilot/co-pilot/flight engineer]
* Capacity: 32 troops or 12 stretchers or 4,000 kg (8,800 lb) of cargo.
* Length: 18.42 m (60 ft 5 in)
* Main rotor diameter: 21.352 m (69 ft 10 in)
* Height: 4.76 m (15 ft 7 in)
* Main rotor area: 356 m² (3,830 ft²)
* Empty: 7,100 kg (15,700 lb)
* Loaded: 11,100 kg (24,470 lb)
* Maximum takeoff: 13,000 kg (28,700 lb)
* Powerplant: 2x Klimov TV3-117VM turboshafts, 1,450 kW (2225 shp) each at max .take off rating.
Performance
* Maximum speed: 250 km/h (156 mph)
* Range: 950 km (594 miles)
* Service ceiling: 6,000 m (19,690 ft)
* Rate of climb: 8 m/s at lim t/o &11 m/s at max take off rating.
* Main rotor loading: 31 kg/m² (6 lb/ft²)
* Power/Mass: 0.26 kW/kg (0.16 hp/lb)
Armament
* up to 1,500 kg (3,300 lb) of disposable stores on six hardpoints, including bombs, rockets, and gunpods
Price: 2,500,000 USDs
Description: Developed from the basic Mi-8 airframe it was fitted with the larger TV3-117MT engines, rotors, and transmission developed for the Mi-14, along with fuselage improvements for heavier loads. Optional engines for 'hot and high' conditions are the 1545kW (2070 shp) Isotov TV3-117VM.

After perusal, we wish to fill our entire remaining order of RPG-29s as well as purchasing 10,000,000 RPKs, 10,000,000 Strelas, 2,500,000 launchers for same.

With regards to the Ka-52, we require the single seat version, the Ka-50. Is this possible?

Aerospace Logistics (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Aerospace_Logistics), with main HQ in Vault 10, focuses in part on coaxial rotor helicopters, and we have lines for Ka-50 operable. Order can be fulfilled in 28 days, in two shipments, 5000 on day 22 and additional 5000 on day 27.

We can offer latest avionics installed, modified for Ka-50, with partially glass cockpits, for the same price as the standart version. The avionics will include automated combat control system and active electronically scanned array radar.
Additional options include customization of the second 5,000 shipment, with possibilities to install larger glass sections and turret for the cannon, if needed.

The Aerospace Logistics can also provide, at no additional cost, updates and warranty for the avionics for the next 10 years, with up to two hardware upgrades. Further discount support will be provided for all service life of the equipment. More considerable upgrades of all parts are possible, but not in one month.
All helicopters will be supplied together with full armament and 4,000 cannon rounds each. Compatible missiles are available.

After perusal, we wish to fill our entire remaining order of RPG-29s as well as purchasing 10,000,000 RPKs, 10,000,000 Strelas, 2,500,000 launchers for same.

With regards to the Ka-52, we require the single seat version, the Ka-50. Is this possible?

If you are talking to me, the answer is yes, I will calculate the total once you confirm you are indeed talking to me.

If you are talking to me, the answer is yes, I will calculate the total once you confirm you are indeed talking to me.

We are indeed speaking to you.

Vault Ten, we'd like to reserve an option on those upgrade packages for a later date.

So, the upgrades will be available in a few months, depending on request. We can start the production of the 10,000 helicopters now if you sign the deal.
The basic package will already include AESA radar and modernized avionics, in upgradeable modules.

We agree to your price conditions.

Vault Ten and World Soviet Party: Whoever delivers the choppers first shall get the money. I advise you to both begin shipping immediately.

OOC: The Mafia to avoid detection already stores immense amounts of inventory on 'ships being repaired' on 'unused docks'.

Secure Transmission

We are the Leafanistani Red Mafia and our low prices can outsell anybody.

At the moment we have stocked:

.93 million AK-103s
1.5 million AK-104s

(Both 7.62mm R but the AK-104 is shorter than the -103 and has less range)

And due to the massive volume of the order, we are providing each rifle at only $295 US each.

That comes to a total of $716,850,000 US, we have planes on the tarmac loaded up with AK-103s ready to take off.

As for ARs that use the 7.62mm Soviet but are much older the AK-47M is also on sale for $195 US each and we stock 20 million of those babies and can have them halfway to Hataria in 2 days and the remaining shipping time will be 1 more day. Maybe a few hours more.

If you want our entire stock of AKMs that will be: $3,900,000,000 US.

We'll ship every single one loaded with an extra 30 rounds in a little plastic baggie, adding up to a total of 1,345,800,000 rounds of ammunition.

Buy this entire package and we'll cut the price to only $4,500,000,000 US and promise express shipping which means the entire order will be filled within 2 weeks.

****************

As for tanks, we sell the upgrade kit for the T-55 and have 156,000 full kits available at the moment with the ability to obtain 500,000 more and ship them in the next month.

Each kit is $500,000 and includes 3 free rounds of 100mm APFSDS round BM-412Sg gives a penetration of 450mm at over 1 km.

If you want to buy all 656,000 kits it will be $ 328,000,000,000 US

****************

The Mil Mi-26 we can provide only 160 of them at $1.3 million each. A total of $208,000,000 US

****************

Our storefront remains open to you at a 5% discount for large orders.

If you want everything we have right here, we'll cut the price to $330,000,000,000 US, a savings of around $3 billion US and this is using the AK package price. You won't find better prices than ours.

[END]

Done. Send it over, payment on delivery.

Secure Transmission

Horray, we have found out that the Leafanistani Military and Confederate Guard had phased out all 45,000,000 million of their KPV 14.5mm heavy machineguns.

We can fill your entire order for 20 million HMGs for 115 billion USD, a massive savings from market prices. We can have these delievered in slightly less than 1 month.

[END]

Secure Transmission

Horray, we have found out that the Leafanistani Military and Confederate Guard had phased out all 45,000,000 million of their KPV 14.5mm heavy machineguns.

We can fill your entire order for 20 million HMGs for 115 billion USD, a massive savings from market prices. We can have these delievered in slightly less than 1 month.

[END]

Bringeth them oneth.

Done. Send it over, payment on delivery.

All 112 An-12s in our possession are nearing flight time, 56 An-22s are within 3 days of being in the air, we have chartered 35 An-26s that can be loaded with KPV HMGs and in the air within the hour.

We have dozens of our cargo ships moving, your order will be filled within the month. If not, we'll refund $3 billion US.

OOC: Exactly how much left do you need?

I'll probably add it all up.

147,430,000 ARs that use 7.62mm Russian

Secure Transmission from General Resources

We provide significant upgrade kits for the T-54/55 and the TR-85 and most other older tanks.

We can add Kontakt-5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kontakt-5)ERA, Arena (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_Active_Protection_System) Active Protection Systems, and Dengpao-1 Electro-Optical SemiActive Countermeasures suite. It also includes a stripping of the layer of applique armour and replacing it with a newer NT Steel layer with ceramic plating on the turret and front. This adds an additional 100mm of armour versus KE and 250mm versus HE and HE kill missiles.

The Dengpao-1 is an electro-optical jammer that jams the enemy's semiautomatic command to line of sight (SACLOS) antitank guided missiles, laser rangefinders and target designators. It also fits a laser designed to locate an enemy tank's optical suite and fire the infrared laser directly into the scope, blinding the commander and is particularily effective in night combat, by preventing the enemy from utilizing their night vision systems. It is most effective when used together with a hard-kill system such as the Arena active countermeasures system.

The entire system costs $950,000 US to install per tank, and dramatically increases survivability for older tanks

147,430,000 ARs that use 7.62mm Russian
10,000,000 RPK 7.62mm LMGs
20,000,000 KPV 14.5mm HMGs
2,000,000 RPG-29s
2,500,000 Strelas MANPADS
1,000,000 AT-14 Kornet ATGMs

1,000,000 Heavy Trucks
1,000,000 Medium Trucks
1,000,000 Light Trucks

10,145,000 T-90 MBTs
656,000 TR-85 LBT (Upgraded T-55s)
200,000 Tunguska-M1
500,000 BMP-3s

3,000 Mi-28 Havok Gunships
6,000 Mi-24 Hind Gunships
8,160 Mi-26 Halo Heavy Transports

Secure Transmission from General Resources

We also have another upgrade package for the outdated tanks, which retrofits a Igla-M dual launcher onto a tank, with a 12.7mm MG attached to it, giving it true anti-aircraft capability, instead of the half-assed ones that 12.7mm guns currently provide.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Dijikt.jpg

Only $75,000 US each

[END]

Transmission from Mafia

We've made an agreement with a major truck importer, we can sell you the Toyota Dyna, which has a payload of 1,200 kg and comes with a fabric covered top, makes a good light truck, for only $17,000 US each.

As for medium trucks we have the deuce and a half, M35 series of trucks, in immense amounts for only $56,000 US.

We can supply up to 1.3 million Toyota Dynas within the month, and up to 5.4 million over the next 6 months.

The M35 we have an astonishing 7.6 million in stock and can be shipped within 2 months and if you pay an additional $4 billion we can obtain enough cargo ships to move that much merch to you.

[END]

Vault Ten and World Soviet Party: Whoever delivers the choppers first shall get the money. I advise you to both begin shipping immediately.

OK. The ALC decided to use spare parts reserve for production and replenish it later. The first 3000 machines are being assembled from existing parts and will arrive tomorrow at your central airport. We'll apply 4-shift system for further production, and it will be completed in 15 NS days, at rate of 500 per day, starting from tomorrow. Helicopters will be transported by airlift to the airport and distribute to required locations themselves.

750 000 thanks? Jesus, man. Even if you're only putting 500 000 of them into active service, you're still looking at a HUGE number of personel.
. Four people in each tank, thats 2 million people, just there. Logistically, I read somewhere that you're looking at 5 personell per tank to maintain it. Thats a person to clean it, a person to repair it, a person to give it a service, a person to fuel it. Of course each of these things are done by multiple people at the time, that, I believe is their overall personell. So, thats another 2.5 Million people. So, for the armoured forces alone, you're looking at at least 5.5 Million people.

I don't care how big his NS country may be, but when you consider the amount of wars he's been in over his NS career. All those times his civilian centres have been bombed, et cetera, this is just unrealistic.

Vault Ten and World Soviet Party: Whoever delivers the choppers first shall get the money. I advise you to both begin shipping immediately.

How many RPGs do you request, as for the rest of your order, the total comes to:

10,000,000 RPDs = 9,000,000,000 USDs
10,000,000 Strelas = 70,000,000,000 USDs

That totals 79,000,000,000 USDs

And as for the Ka-50, yes it can be done, and they'll cost you 3/4 of the Ka-52's cost.

The first shipment of 3000 has arrived, distributed between your airports according to their capacity. Helicopters are being transferred to your military across the requested bases.
The rest is in production.

Might I suggest, rather than the RPG-29...

The HM-320?

Underbarrel, fires RPG-7 rounds, has recoil though...
And maximum range is a little less, though effective range is the same.

Also can fire 40 mm grenades...

$150 + $7 S+H each.

Might I suggest, rather than the RPG-29...

The HM-320?

Underbarrel, fires RPG-7 rounds, has recoil though...
And maximum range is a little less, though effective range is the same.

Also can fire 40 mm grenades...

$150 + $7 S+H each.

The RPG-7 is ignited by a powder charge that propels it to 115 m/s, with a 4.5kg charge (if you want to destroy a tank), and assuming the acceleration to 115m/s happens in 1 sec (which isn't that likely, it probably happens a lot faster, dramatically increasing force), it creates 517.5 Newtons of Force or 116 pounds of force. A high schooler tackling you. If it happens in half a second, the force doubles, 232 pounds of force, a football player tackling you.

I sincerly doubt the ability of firing this thing from an underbarrel launcher, because the RPG-7 has a flared end to reduce recoil and with an underbarrel launcher, unless you have a special mount for the shoulder and a tube with a flared end to reduce recoil.

No one except a 300 lb man of rock hard muscle who is bolted to the ground can take that force on an underbarrel mount.

The RPG-7 is ignited by a powder charge that propels it to 115 m/s, with a 4.5kg charge (if you want to destroy a tank), and assuming the acceleration to 115m/s happens in 1 sec (which isn't that likely, it probably happens a lot faster, dramatically increasing force), it creates 517.5 Newtons of Force or 116 pounds of force. A high schooler tackling you. If it happens in half a second, the force doubles, 232 pounds of force, a football player tackling you.

I sincerly doubt the ability of firing this thing from an underbarrel launcher, because the RPG-7 has a flared end to reduce recoil and with an underbarrel launcher, unless you have a special mount for the shoulder and a tube with a flared end to reduce recoil.

No one except a 300 lb man of rock hard muscle who is bolted to the ground can take that force on an underbarrel mount.

Recoil, as noted earlier, is comparable to a PIAT vs M1A1 Bazooka. Firing from anything other than prone or with the buttstock firmly planted on the ground is not recomended.

Those who place their thigh or knee under this gun while firing desserve the fractured leg. A super soldier might be able to fire from standing, but this is doubtful.

An alternate method is to tightly bolt or lash the gun to something nice big and solid.

The self entrenching bipod helps, a little.
The buttstock in question is whatever the host gun has, as such, I assume it is a fixed stock of the lowest quality.

(I'm a 140 pound stick and it took 8 high schoolers dogpiling me simultaniously to bring me to a stop, for awhile, I still advanced 20 yards with them trying to push me down, another 30 yards made previous, and another 10 and I would have made it)

If only it was so easy, it would had long been implemented.
RPG-7 or RPG-29 projectiles are simply too large; and a gun with RPG launcher underbarrel is really *something*....

It's MT, after all.

Recoil, as noted earlier, is comparable to a PIAT vs M1A1 Bazooka. Firing from anything other than prone or with the buttstock firmly planted on the ground is not recomended.

Those who place their thigh or knee under this gun while firing desserve the fractured leg. A super soldier might be able to fire from standing, but this is doubtful.

An alternate method is to tightly bolt or lash the gun to something nice big and solid.

The self entrenching bipod helps, a little.
The buttstock in question is whatever the host gun has, as such, I assume it is a fixed stock of the lowest quality.

(I'm a 140 pound stick and it took 8 high schoolers dogpiling me simultaniously to bring me to a stop, for awhile, I still advanced 20 yards with them trying to push me down, another 30 yards made previous, and another 10 and I would have made it)

I won't question your football abilities, but someone hitting you full on the shoulder, completely horizontal, is going to hurt and you are going to regret doing it.

So we have to buy the underbarrel launcher and bipod, or is it built in?

The idea of an underbarrel weapon is to provide the ability to rapidly deploy a different sort of projectile and switch back to the normal weapon.

By bolting it down you've ruined the point of an underbarrel weapon by destroying its mobility. The bipod helps slightly but the recoil would send the tiny gun flying backward at ~115 m/s^2.

Then we haven't even dealt for backblast, the hot gases will burn the man nearby and significantly damage whatever is behind hte underbarrel. Then it'll require waiting as the pistol grip cooled down before firing.

The idea of an underbarrel RPG is interesting but impractical.

Just was an attempt to get a bigger oversived 'rifle grenade' (40/105 mm in this case) with better knockdown power and range, while retaining a reletively easy to handle assault rifle.

Sort of a switch from large rifle grenades and rocket launchers to underbarrel grenade launchers while leaving the option open to fire the same sized round.

(it's still better than a specialty AT weapon of marginal capability)

The pistol grip doubles as a spade to lower recoil effect (provided you are pressing it into the ground) and also makes for interesting CQB encounters.

An additional bipod may help.

Bolting and lashing it down for a moment (such as bracing/hooking the bipod or buttstock against/onto a wall, preventing felt recoil)

As a rocket launcher, it would be comparable to the Japanese "Knee Mortar".
As a greande launcher, it is medicore.

As a daul purpose add-on, it's priceless...

And I thought that since all the gas would be forcing either the gun to recoil, or the charge to be propelled, that it would leave the barrel faster and ignite farther away from the shooter than in the case of the RPG-7 (rocket ignites 20+ yards after launch)

And I find it odd that you can go from force to acceleration without knowing the mass of the grenade launcher and host gun. (plus, if you treat it as a shotgun, you'll have to add the mass of the shooter, then add in Force friction from the recoil spades and a man lying prone)

Just was an attempt to get a bigger oversived 'rifle grenade' (40/105 mm in this case) with better knockdown power and range, while retaining a reletively easy to handle assault rifle.

Sort of a switch from large rifle grenades and rocket launchers to underbarrel grenade launchers while leaving the option open to fire the same sized round.

(it's still better than a specialty AT weapon of marginal capability)

The pistol grip doubles as a spade to lower recoil effect (provided you are pressing it into the ground) and also makes for interesting CQB encounters.

An additional bipod may help.

Bolting and lashing it down for a moment (such as bracing/hooking the bipod or buttstock against/onto a wall, preventing felt recoil)

As a rocket launcher, it would be comparable to the Japanese "Knee Mortar".
As a greande launcher, it is medicore.

As a daul purpose add-on, it's priceless...

And I thought that since all the gas would be forcing either the gun to recoil, or the charge to be propelled, that it would leave the barrel faster and ignite farther away from the shooter than in the case of the RPG-7 (rocket ignites 20+ yards after launch)

And I find it odd that you can go from force to acceleration without knowing the mass of the grenade launcher and host gun. (plus, if you treat it as a shotgun, you'll have to add the mass of the shooter, then add in Force friction from the recoil spades and a man lying prone)

From the sounds of it you are trying to make him buy some incompatible equipment, then sell him the ARs to make it work. His AKs don't come with pistol spades, or multiple bipods.

As a rocket launcher, it would be invaluable if it wasn't so inconvient, and it is easier to have an M72 LAW.

And can you imagine the inconvience of having a much heavier gun, with pistol spades, multiple bipods, your insane rpg launcher, with the rounds, when you could have the same weight, with an M72 and not deal with latching it down.

As for the calculations you are right I didn't take into account the assorted accessories it requires but just used an AK for it. For that I apologize.

I still think it is a stupid idea

The buttstock in question is whatever the host gun has, as such, I assume it is a fixed stock of the lowest quality.
An additional bipod may help
From the sounds of it you are trying to make him buy some incompatible equipment, then sell him the ARs to make it work. His AKs don't come with pistol spades, or multiple bipods.

As a rocket launcher, it would be comparable to the Japanese "Knee Mortar".
As a greande launcher, it is medicore.

As a daul purpose add-on, it's priceless...

As a rocket launcher, it would be invaluable if it wasn't so inconvient, and it is easier to have an M72 LAW.

And can you imagine the inconvience of having a much heavier gun, with pistol spades, multiple bipods, your insane rpg launcher, with the rounds, when you could have the same weight, with an M72 and not deal with latching it down.

As for the calculations you are right I didn't take into account the assorted accessories it requires but just used an AK for it. For that I apologize.

I still think it is a stupid idea

Eh, dual purpose heavy assualt weapons... they just never seem to catch on...

True, but you didn't even take into account whether it was a person, the ground, or a tree that would be absorbing the recoil. (You assumed the rifle would be 'free floating in space' and not pressed up tight against someone's shoulder so that they would recoil as one single combined mass)

The M-72 is single use, and special purpose, whereas you can reuse the HM-320, and use regular 40 x 46 mm grenades.

"Multiple bipods"? You only need one good one if you plan on doing prone shooting or shooting out of windows or from behind house corners and trees.

A standard RPK bipod (or a fixed Bren MG style) retrofitted to an AK should work fine for that.

The HM-320 also, unlike the M-72 or RPG-29, can be fired within extremely confined spaces with assured safety to the user (aside from already discussed recoil).

And if all else fails, just plunge the butt into something solid, aim, and fire.
(A process very similar to firing the knee mortar, and could just as easily been used by a recoil shy British Tommy with a PIAT)

*Oh, forgot the picture, the add on includes its own grip (with complementry spade, but a bipod allows the shooter to be higher off the ground and allows a better hold onto solid objects) and has offset sight, so it could be used stand alone for training,

Eh, dual purpose heavy assualt weapons... they just never seem to catch on...

True, but you didn't even take into account whether it was a person, the ground, or a tree that would be absorbing the recoil.

The M-72 is single use, and special purpose, whereas you can reuse the HM-320, and use regular 40 x 46 mm grenades.

"Multiple bipods"? You only need one good one if you plan on doing prone shooting or shooting out of windows or from behind house corners and trees.

A standard RPK bipod retrofitted to an AK should work fine for that.

The HM-320 also, unlike the M-72 or RPG-29, can be fired within extremely confined spaces with assured safety to the user (aside from already discussed recoil).

And if all else fails, just plunge the butt into something solid, aim, and fire.
(A process very similar to firing the knee mortar, and could just as easily been used by a recoil shy British Tommy with a PIAT)

Ok, my math was flawed, but the real reason a person wasn't around was that the backblast of hot powder that originally propelled it forward has to go somehwere, which is straight into the pistol grip.

Besides, we are talking about Hatarian Conscripted Chinese guard who have probably just switched from the Type 56 Carbine and Mosin Nagant to the AKM, AK-103, -104. This is a major paradigm change. I don't think they are ready for a dressed up AK-47 with a grenade launcher.

I think they'd handle the RPG-29 and LAW much better.

Ok, my math was flawed, but the real reason a person wasn't around was that the backblast of hot powder that originally propelled it forward has to go somehwere, which is straight into the pistol grip.

Besides, we are talking about Hatarian Conscripted Chinese guard who have probably just switched from the Type 56 Carbine and Mosin Nagant to the AKM, AK-103, -104. This is a major paradigm change. I don't think they are ready for a dressed up AK-47 with a grenade launcher.

I think they'd handle the RPG-29 and LAW much better.

Excess unburnt powder would simply produce greater muzzle flash and recoil (since it is only allowed out at the muzzle), as in the case of the Mk 5 Enfield, muzzloaders, and overpowered pistols everywhere.
And you know it.

This can be solved by cutting down on the extra powder charge that is no longer required (but still retaining enough for 20 yard clearance).

Yes, give a redneck a gun with massive backblast and hope he has the common sense not to fire it when his friends are directly behind him or in a confined space...

Mine would just knock the shooter sensless at the target range if he did something stupid, your proposal could get soldiers killed. (as what happened to the Finnish troops when given a Panzerfaust)

The Panzerfaust often had warnings written in large red lettering on the upper rear end of the tube, the words usually being "Achtung! Feuerstrahl!" (Beware! Fire Jet!). This was to warn soldiers to avoid the backblast. Finnish soldiers who didn't understand German sometimes leaned the weapon on their shoulders like rifles and burnt badly

And the Type 56 is a Chinese copy o the AK series, an AK-47 by any other name is still an AK-47. (AKM is an AK-47 with sheet metal revever rather than milled, AK-103 is an AKM firing a differnt cartridge, and the AK-104 is an AK-103 with a built in compensator piston for improved accuracy)

Yes, a big change...
It's like saying a person trained to use an AR-15 would have difficulty using an M-16A3 and M-4A1.

Excess unburnt powder would simply produce greater muzzle flash and recoil (since it is only allowed out at the muzzle), as in the case of the Mk 5 Enfield, muzzloaders, and overpowered pistols everywhere.
And you know it.

This can be solved by cutting down on the extra powder charge that is no longer required (but still retaining enough for 20 yard clearance).

Yes, give a redneck a gun with massive backblast and hope he has the common sense not to fire it when his friends are directly behind him or in a confined space...

Mine would just knock the shooter sensless at the target range if he did something stupid, your proposal could get soldiers killed. (as what happened to the Finnish troops when given a Panzerfaust)

And the Type 56 is a Chinese copy o the AK series, an AK-47 by any other name is still an AK-47. (AKM is an AK-47 with sheet metal revever rather than milled, AK-103 is an AKM firing a differnt cartridge, and the AK-104 is an AK-103 with a built in compensator piston)

You are cutting down on the powder charge making it worse and worse. I still say it is just as dangerous for the inexperienced user. You've replaced organ damage and the chance he could fall over and redirect the grenade someplace dangerous for burning everyone behind him.

As for the Type 56, I mentioned it was the Carbine, not the Assualt Rifle. It was a Chinese copy of the SKS Carbine.

And I thought the AK-103 fired the 7.62*39mm that the AKM fired.

The AK-103 is a modern Russian-built version of the famous AK-47 assault rifle, chambered for the 7.62 x 39 mm round.

So what is so special about the AK-103/4 then?

And how does a person lying flat on the ground fall over?
Wouldn't that also be possable with the rocket launchers used while standing?

True, but you didn't even take into account whether it was a person, the ground, or a tree that would be absorbing the recoil. (You assumed the rifle would be 'free floating in space' and not pressed up tight against someone's shoulder so that they would recoil as one single combined mass)
So the impulse is 4.5*115=517 kg*m/s=... Well, this would send the shooter at 6 m/s back.

For comparison, Barret M82 has it only about 40 kg*m/s. This is 25 times more punch. Even 30 mm vehicle-mounted cannon has 160 kg*m/s, three times less.

You'll need not a bipod. The closest match is this 37-mm anti-tank cannon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/37-mm_anti-tank_gun_M1930_%281-K%29 . Your underbarrel launcher will produce approximately the same recoil. Now, think a little: would anyone go through the trouble of mounting these 37-mm cannons on tanks, or full cannon mounts, if all it took was a soldier and a bipod?


This underbarrel sealed RPG would not just kick the soldier. It would tear him apart, hit whatever is behind him and retain deadly force after the ricochet. And, on top of that, the projectile would fly not where the former shooter aimed, although in the same arc.

50 mm grenade launcher
"Knee mortar" (http://members.shaw.ca/nambuworld/t89xrmanuala.jpg)

I also happen to know of a certain German AT rifle converted to fire RPG-7 size shells.

Later in the war the german tank rifles PzB 38 and PzB 39 were withdrawn from frontservice (the penetrating power of AT rifles did not suffice for the new tanks); Starting 1942, the PzB 39 were rebuilt with a shortened barrel (59cm) and an affixed Schiessbecher ("firing cup" = rifle grenade launching attachment) as grenade rifles with the designation Granatbüchse Modell 39 ("grenade rifle model 39") and proved useful in that role.

Thomanek used an improved shaped charge of 600g that could penetrate 270mm of armor. The rumors regarding a supposed new heavily armored russian "Schtschuka" tank (that had already led to the development of the large Hecht 10,5cm Panzerfaust) inspired the construction of an even larger warhead with a diameter of 10cm that carried a shaoped charge of 1.35kg; it proved to penetrate 360mm of steel.. The extra propellant used for the additional second boost weighed 250g.

It was bipod mounted...

Then there is the PIAT (http://www.mastercollector.com/neat/gijoe/expconsets/pegasus/pb-english-piat.jpg)...

50 mm grenade launcher
"Knee mortar" (http://members.shaw.ca/nambuworld/t89pix.htm)

I also happen to know of a certain German AT rifle converted to fire RPG-7 size shells.

The Knee Mortar fired a shell that weighed: 793 g. Something like ~5.5 times less than the size of your HM-530. It also fired with much less force because of its tiny range (120m and that is for a parabolic arc, on level firing it would be much much smaller, compared to an RPG-7 which can reach out and touch an armoured column at 300m).

The German AT rifle you are thinking of is the Granatbuchse 39 which fired up to 300m, with a .6 kg projectile.

You want something that can go 200-300mm with 4.5kg warhead.

Thank you Vault 10.

The Knee Mortar fired a shell that weighed: 793 g. Something like ~5.5 times less than the size of your HM-530. It also fired with much less force because of its tiny range (120m and that is for a parabolic arc, on level firing it would be much much smaller, compared to an RPG-7 which can reach out and touch an armoured column at 300m).

The German AT rifle you are thinking of is the Granatbuchse 39 which fired up to 300m, with a .6 kg projectile.

You want something that can go 200-300mm with 4.5kg warhead.

Thank you Vault 10.

Actually I was thinking of the 1.35 Kg version... 100 mm diameter.
a 1.1 kg version had a range of 375 m
So... It'll have to be lobbed a little before the rocket motor starts you say...

In which case I could fire a 120 mm mortar (provided the rifle itself can withstand the stress) underbarrel in a fashion similar to a light mortar.

Also, I'm only looking at an effective range of 150 meters...
300/400 at parobolic arc, whereas the RPG-7 had max range of 1000 meters.

Secondly, both weapons used as examples give all their propellant in one 'kick' wheras I only intend to get the shell to travel 20 to 40 meters before reaching aprogee and rocket ignition, which would carry it the rest of the way (for a 45 degree gun elevation, allowing a top hull attack from behind cover).

Actually I was thinking of the 1.35 Kg version... 100 mm diameter.
a 1.1 kg version had a range of 375 m
So... It'll have to be lobbed a little before the rocket motor starts you say...

In which case I could fire a 120 mm mortar (provided the rifle itself can withstand the stress) underbarrel in a fashion similar to a light mortar.

Also, I'm only looking at an effective range of 150 meters...
300/400 at parobolic arc, whereas the RPG-7 had max range of 1000 meters.

1.1kg?

THe smallest round is the Anti-personnel one which weighs 2 kg.

How about this, the thing comes with the bipod, and fires a special 1 kg rocket.

Of course at that weight it is only useful against infantry and light vehicles.

(Good night!)

Oversized rifle grenade that requires a 40 mm parent launcher.

40 mm parent launcher mounted underbarrel to assault rifle, doubles as standard 40 mm grenade launcher.

I say I'd use it as an impractically short range large bore light mortar with Rocket assist to give it an almost decent range.

And strap it under a rifle just to screw with everyone. And in acceptance that its primary function is to fire 40 mm shotgun shells at Pheonix Militiamen...
Curse their 103 mm 5 pound fully automatic shotguns....

(the entire HM-320 project was dreamt up after I saw someone trying to sell a 90 mm sniper rifle using a principal similar to the RPG-7, I wanted to make something bigger and more portable, though with less range [a little storefront fued broke out when I proclaimed my 35 mm rifles to be the largest 1 man portable rifle on NS, then somone made a 50 mm, and decided to trump himself with 90 mm... so this is my attempt at geting a 105 mm shell to go more than 50 meters from the gun and be mounted underbarrel of a typical assault rifle -though I believe he will eventually just start sniping with hellfire missiles, in which case I'm screwed...])

That or I just sell them my leftover RPG-7s...

If you're referring to mine, the Thunderbolt and Godslayer are both 60mm gyrojet weapons. As nobody else uses the things (well, as far as I know), you might want to tone that down just a little. After all, tank shells are rather obscenely heavy.

Good idea about the sniping with Hellfires tho... ;)

If you're referring to mine, the Thunderbolt and Godslayer are both 60mm gyrojet weapons. As nobody else uses the things (well, as far as I know), you might want to tone that down just a little. After all, tank shells are rather obscenely heavy.

Good idea about the sniping with Hellfires tho... ;)

60 mm? that's the biggest you've got?

Heck, I'll settle for a 'piddly' 60-90 mm oversize AT grenade now...
(It'll at least help defeat those uber-body armor troops)

At least I'll be able to say it is more portable than the Godslayer...

Could've sworn you had a 90 mm Godslayer laying around someplace...

Hehe, assasination by nuking...

Yeah, hellfires, point laser, fire, run like heck because they gonna be looking for you.

Could sell you some Ægir class small frigates (basically a slightly evolved Gepard, which is little more than a evolved Grisha), as my navy's seriosly considering retiring them, as they are too small for real navy work..

Would make good in close patrol vessels, though. (assuming that nobody minds me selling them to you, that is) 'course you are going to find some other anti ship missle than the Lance (3) that I use..As I have no right to sell them to anyone else..They're Praetonian, after all.

So what is so special about the AK-103/4 then?
103: It's basically more of a evolution (if backwards) of the AK 74 than it is a reworked AK-47. It's furniture is also more modern than the older rifle..That's about it. (some Russian soldiers prefer the older round, apparently)

104: This is pretty much the rifle above, with a considerably (shortened right in front of the gas block). It's something of a replacement for the AKS-74U, with it's biggest advantage being a commonality of parts (and indeed caliber) with the 103.

Guess their best selling point is the fact that they are more modern looking versions of the good ole AK..Internally they are pretty much the same old gun..

(the entire HM-320 project was dreamt up after I saw someone trying to sell a 90 mm sniper rifle using a principal similar to the RPG-7, I wanted to make something bigger and more portable, though with less range [a little storefront fued broke out when I proclaimed my 35 mm rifles to be the largest 1 man portable rifle on NS, then somone made a 50 mm, and decided to trump himself with 90 mm... so this is my attempt at geting a 105 mm shell to go more than 50 meters from the gun and be mounted underbarrel of a typical assault rifle -though I believe he will eventually just start sniping with hellfire missiles, in which case I'm screwed...])

How about a 57mm Armour Piercing Rocket Pod (1 rocket) underbarrel and you can reload it. It'd be useful, have part commonality with the Warsaw Pact, and with a cold launch system (initial percussion cap charge) it could do minimal recoil to the user.

I suggest doing what the Germans did to avoid being burned by their Rocket Launchers was to wear their standard gas mask.

Or perhaps a small shield. It'd be interesting to design a new gun around this concept.

60 mm? that's the biggest you've got?

Heck, I'll settle for a 'piddly' 60-90 mm oversize AT grenade now...
(It'll at least help defeat those uber-body armor troops)

At least I'll be able to say it is more portable than the Godslayer...

Could've sworn you had a 90 mm Godslayer laying around someplace...

Hehe, assasination by nuking...

Yeah, hellfires, point laser, fire, run like heck because they gonna be looking for you.

The biggest thing I made for infantry was a 120mm 3 man Recoilless Rifle. It was carried in the back of a Hummer, was made of light weight components, and couldn't take more than 200 shots without replacement.

In the way of one man though I think it would be a cart mounted 35mm Gatling Gun, called the Assault Cannon. It was meant to be carried by the Sardukar or the Capitol Police because of their immense strength.

Questers wins though for assassination by nuking. Though someone else coudl win if they assassinated one of Hataria's ruling class with a bow and arrow.

How about a 57mm Armour Piercing Rocket Pod (1 rocket) underbarrel and you can reload it. It'd be useful, have part commonality with the Warsaw Pact, and with a cold launch system (initial percussion cap charge) it could do minimal recoil to the user.

It'd be interesting to design a new gun around this concept.

Yes, very interesting... Yep, I could remake it to fire a 57 mm rocket, or have a liner inserted to allow it to fire 40 mm grenades. Though I am not entirely familiar with the 57 mm rocket.

Even a 60 mm shell would be a massive improvement over the 40 mm HEDP grenade. And I'm leaning for 90 mm so that I can at least claim it is more powerful than the venerable LAW.

The biggest limit to what the max oversized grenade it can handle are recoil and the strength if the gun to withstand the stresses of firing it. As a 40 mm rifle grenade launcher essentially is an RPG-7, and if you magnum the liner, and seal the gases so it only left the muzzle (disregarding recoil) you could easily get a 203 mm RPG-7 (ish) shell to go 1000 meters.

Wait a second, I just re-invented the mortar...

The biggest thing I made for infantry was a 120mm 3 man Recoilless Rifle. It was carried in the back of a Hummer, was made of light weight components, and couldn't take more than 200 shots without replacement.

In the way of one man though I think it would be a cart mounted 35mm Gatling Gun, called the Assault Cannon. It was meant to be carried by the Sardukar or the Capitol Police because of their immense strength.


I was reffering to the 60 mm Godslayer sniper rifle, for which I am trying to develop something more impressive than itself by having it fire a larger shell and be more usefull under normal combat situations (rather than lugging the Godslayer and an AK around).

My biggest firearm for distance shooting is a 35 mm bolt action one man cannon, bipod mounted with muzzle brake, and recoil damper. Still kicks like a mule though...

Questers wins though for assassination by nuking. Though someone else coudl win if they assassinated one of Hataria's ruling class with a bow and arrow.

I might try that, as I tried once to kill Griffencrest with a shovel and blindfold...
It didn't work too well, as he had helicopters, guns, a cell phone, and GPS...
---------
OK,
How to solve recoil when firing a 105+ mm rocket from a 40 mm tube:

Detach launcher from gun, as the recoil would wreck it otherwise...
Set up as mortar. As the recoil would kill you if you shouldered it... (I might wanna include a baseplate...)
Add rocket, oversized warhead will protrude from muzzle.
Aim
Pull trigger.
(actualy a 105+ mm warhead and 40 mm rocket)

All current orders are confirmed except the theoretical stuff you're discussing. Keep on doing so, we find it interesting.

Why thank you!

As for sniping with hellfires:
Israel also uses them for "targeted killings" including the founder and spiritual leader of Hamas: Sheikh Ahmed Ismail Yassin. Ahmed Yassin was killed in an Israeli attack on March 22, 2004. While he was being wheeled out of an early morning prayer session, an Israeli helicopter gunship fired Hellfire missiles at Yassin and both of his bodyguards. They were killed instantly, along with eight other bystanders. In order to minimise casualties Israel removed the explosive warhead, while replacing this weight with ballast to keep the weapon stable in flight. The weapon allows for accurate attacks that have little or no collateral damage.

Its been done. But then again, a missile isn't a firearm, firearms have barrels...

3 modes of fire with the HM-320:

40 x 46 mm grenades:
Usual, can use from standing.

60 to 90 mm oversize:
Fire as you would a rifle grenade (Buttstock on ground [though you could get creative and use a handy tree or wall]) or PIAT

105 to 155 mm oversize:
Remove from parent gun and use as personal mortar, I might as well include a light baseplate for this...

203 mm is feasable in Personal mortar configuration, but then the shells get too big and it would require a much larger and stronger, non-standard baseplate. You would also risk bursting the 'mortar'.

This way, everybody wins, I get to claim that it'll fire a larger shell than the Godslayer, the 90 mm grenade is compareable to the S-MAW in penetration, and the 60 mm is comparable to the M-72 LAW and is reasonably sized to be fired from a person with few special provisions aside from a Bipod, an improvised padded stock, and the launcher.

Just for fun, I looked at a few mortar specs...

I think I can lob an RPG-7 from a 40 mm short mortar in this fashion.
The personal mortar setup would wiegh about 10 pounds (4.4 lb launcher and 5.6 lb baseplate and rifle bipod)

Launcher would be "upside down" in this method so that the rail mounting lugs could engage the bipod and baseplate, this also eliminates the need of a specialty trigger, as the normal trigger is now readily accesable. The sight is reversable.

How many RPGs do you request, as for the rest of your order, the total comes to:

10,000,000 RPDs = 9,000,000,000 USDs
10,000,000 Strelas = 70,000,000,000 USDs

That totals 79,000,000,000 USDs

And as for the Ka-50, yes it can be done, and they'll cost you 3/4 of the Ka-52's cost.

Bump for answer.

All current orders are confirmed except the theoretical stuff you're discussing. Keep on doing so, we find it interesting.
...

...

Since I dont know if he saw my post, and wanting to get an individual confirmation so as not to get money he didnt really pay, nor creating future arguements and/or discussions over the subject, I posted that to which you answered rather shortly.

Alright then.

I think I'm done trying to make the HM-320 work.

It'll either work (though far from practical or convienent from the soldier's perspective) or not.

You may choose whether or not to purchase this theoretical novelty grenade launcher at this time. As I have hijacked this thread long enough in order to get an intellectual discussion on its feasability finished (as the NS Draftroom has me blacklisted for multiple minor infractions, such as going a little off topic from time to time)

I find it odd that I start two offsite discussions on the weapon and get no feedback, while here I get massive corrospondance. The original claims were exagerated to elicit a response (or to see if I could get away with it).

Alright then.

I think I'm done trying to make the HM-320 work.

It'll either work (though far from practical or convienent from the soldier's perspective) or not.

You may choose whether or not to purchase this theoretical novelty grenade launcher at this time. As I have hijacked this thread long enough in order to get an intellectual discussion on its feasability finished (as the NS Draftroom has me blacklisted for multiple minor infractions, such as going a little off topic from time to time)

I find it odd that I start two offsite discussions on the weapon and get no feedback, while here I get massive corrospondance. The original claims were exagerated to elicit a response (or to see if I could get away with it).

You've invented a mortar that can be carried underbarrel for convienence. Its an achievement, but the underbarrel grenade launcher wasn't meant for anti-armour, it was meant for replace the soldier's arm so he doens't tire.

You've invented a mortar that can be carried underbarrel for convienence. Its an achievement, but the underbarrel grenade launcher wasn't meant for anti-armour, it was meant for replace the soldier's arm so he doens't tire.
A mortar, replaced by a mortar, replaced by an underbarrel grenade launcher...

British 2-inch mortar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_2-inch_mortar)
Royal Ordnance 51 mm infantry mortar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Ordnance_51_mm_infantry_mortar)
The Gun that Replaced it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AG36)
It was accepted for service by the British Army as the L17A1/A2, for use on their L85A2 IW (Individual Weapon) infantry rifles, they were purchased to replace the section 51 mm Light Mortar.

So, it just went full circle...

Wikipedia: Rifle Grenades:
Rifle grenades can be of any type as the more conventional hand grenades. However, two types predominate — fragmentation grenades, for use against personnel; and shaped charge for armoured vehicles.

The distinction in purpose for a light Mortar, Rifle Grenade, Personal Rocket Launcher, and underbarrel grenade launcher is spotty at best.

A mortar can also be a launcher for fireworks, a hand-held or vehicle-mounted projector for smoke shells or flares, or a large grenade launcher.
A rifle grenade is a form of grenade that utilizes a rifle as a launch mechanism to increase the effective range of the grenade
An underbarrel grenade launcher is a weapon that launches a grenade greater distances, more accurately, and faster than a soldier could throw by hand.

And just for fun, a letter describing an improvised grenade during WW1
We have a new invention to annoy our friends in their pits. It consists in filling empty soda water bottles full of powder, old twisted nails and any other sharp or cutting thing we can find at the time, sticking a bit of tow in for a fuse then lighting it and throwing it quickly into our neighbours pit where it bursts, to their great annoyance. You may imagine their rage at seeing a soda water bottle come tumbling into a hole full of men with a little fuse burning away as proud as a real shell exploding and burying itself into soft parts of the flesh.

Note that rifle and underbarrel grenades don't replace full-scale (not 2") mortars and RPGs. They have much lower power and range, and are rather an improvement over hand grenades. A good one, but still same category.

And, even compared to the original vintage mortar, it only has five times lower range, not to mention much lighter projectile. "Weapon X is phased out by weapon Y" doesn't mean that Y is more effective; it, in this case, means that weapon X is impractical to carry and there is less need for its performance, while weapon Y is much lighter. 2" mortar is a squad+ level weapon, underbarrel GL team level.

And therefore weapon Z has the same range as weapon Y at only a slight increse in wieght, and is still issued on the squad/team level.

And I still retain those nice juicy 125 mm mortars (can also fire 120 mm at slightly lower performance, much like an 82 mm vs an 81 mm)

At section level I still hand out RPG-7s and CC-35C cannon, mostly because of their better range.

Weapon 'Z' (the HM-320 in question) is merely a grenade launcher that can be used alternately as a light anti-tank mortar (close range heavy).

The possabilities that can be achived with units as small as a section lobbing 125 mm mortar shells at heavily dug in infantry and tanks should be a clear advantage over calling in air strikes or retreating.

Rhetorical:
At the company level you'd have 63 of these in addition to the normal complement of 8 heavy mortars.
Now put that up against a 'normal' unit, armed with 50 pure underbarrel grenade launchers, 12 light mortars, and 4 heavy mortars.
(based on 156 man companies, and that you can have 1 grenade launcher per two unassigned troops, or one light mortar per 3, or a heavy for every 5)

I want to buy 300 MI-26,thanks.

At section level I still hand out RPG-7s and CC-35C cannon, mostly because of their better range.[QUOTE] That's right. 40mm grenades are not a replacement for RPG-7.

[QUOTE]Weapon 'Z' (the HM-320 in question) is merely a grenade launcher that can be used alternately as a light anti-tank mortar (close range heavy).
But not anti-tank!! A modern MBT - starting from upgraded T-72 - takes a 105 mm grenade to seriously damage. In case of better ones like T-80U, T-90S, M1A2, Leclerc, Merkava, Type 90, etc., even that isn't enough for frontal or turret hit. Even a good side hit takes a full-scale PG-7V, but not downsized one.


Rifle mortar can be an improvement over UGL, at the cost of weight - M-16 will break if you try to use it this way, AK will hold (ever seen AK ladder?), and any weapon strong enough will generally have similar weight; add increased size (the UGL must be lower). But, well, it's a tradeoff, not a wunderwaffe, and never a replacement for full-scale weapon.

[QUOTE=Hurtful Thoughts;11904085]Rifle mortar can be an improvement over UGL, at the cost of weight - M-16 will break if you try to use it this way, AK will hold (ever seen AK ladder?), and any weapon strong enough will generally have similar weight; add increased size (the UGL must be lower). But, well, it's a tradeoff, not a wunderwaffe, and never a replacement for full-scale weapon.


There is a reason why 'the manual' states that you should remove the grenade launcher when firing it as an infantry mortar.

In that mode of operation, size of shot is only limited by the durability of the weapon and the practicality of the ammunition (IE, anything with a 40 mm booster added can be lobbed somewhat).

Also, Light Attack Weapons (LAWs) are generally only useful at ranges of less than 300 meters unless specialised training and sights are added, then making it more of a specialist weapon.

Therefore, the drop in effective range to 150 meters is no big loss unless you plan on sniping tanks from 1000 meters, which is still well within range for a tank to swiftly and fataly retaliate upon the attacker. (that is why I still retain the RPG-7)

Tank sniping is best left to ATGMs and specialised tank-hunter crews.

The rifle-Mortar also replaces the specialised light and medium mortars, and frees the heavy mortars for longer range counter-artillery fire and bombardments. While giving the same crews to use the RM as a UGL for direct fire and suppression of enemy infantry.

I want to buy 300 MI-26,thanks.

I'm sorry this is a 'sell' thread not a 'buy' thread.

There is a reason why 'the manual' states that you should remove the grenade launcher when firing it as an infantry mortar.

In that mode of operation, size of shot is only limited by the durability of the weapon and the practicality of the ammunition (IE, anything with a 40 mm booster added can be lobbed somewhat).

Also, Light Attack Weapons (LAWs) are generally only useful at ranges of less than 300 meters unless specialised training and sights are added, then making it more of a specialist weapon.

Therefore, the drop in effective range to 150 meters is no big loss unless you plan on sniping tanks from 1000 meters, which is still well within range for a tank to swiftly and fataly retaliate upon the attacker. (that is why I still retain the RPG-7)

Tank sniping is best left to ATGMs and specialised tank-hunter crews.

The rifle-Mortar also replaces the specialised light and medium mortars, and frees the heavy mortars for longer range counter-artillery fire and bombardments. While giving the same crews to use the RM as a UGL for direct fire and suppression of enemy infantry.

So this has become a 'gun-mortar'.

I forgot my arguement but I drew a pretty picture to stamp on my 57mm LAW.

http://imagesocket.com/images/owowowow54d.PNG

So this has become a 'gun-mortar'.

I forgot my arguement but I drew a pretty picture to stamp on my 57mm LAW.

http://imagesocket.com/images/owowowow54d.PNG

It always was a gun-mortar, trying to shoot a 105 mm shell flat trajectory with full recoil is simply insane. (Just didn't fully expect the kick to exceed the PIAT or knee mortar by much)

http://www.firstworldwar.com/weaponry/graphics/serbiangrenade.jpg http://www.sproe.com/images/rifle-grenade.jpg

RAAM (Rifle Launched Anti-Armour Munition) was developed at the end of the 1980s for the needs of the USMC.

For use, first an adapter must be installed onto the assault rifle. The grenade can be fired with completely normal ammunition, whereby in case of ball, the projectile remains and the grenade brings it away to a safe distance. Afterwards, the rocket engine at a safe distance ignites, thus RAAM can also be fired from closed areas. The HEAT warhead is ignited by a proximity fuze and becomes armed only after 10 meters of flight.

Manufacturers: Olin
Kind: Rifle anti-tank rocket grenade
Weight: 1.65 kg
Length: 56.4 cm long
Range Effective: 250m
Caliber: 400mm

It always was a gun-mortar, trying to shoot a 105 mm shell flat trajectory with full recoil is simply insane. (Just didn't fully expect the kick to exceed the PIAT or knee mortar by much)

http://www.firstworldwar.com/weaponry/graphics/serbiangrenade.jpg http://www.sproe.com/images/rifle-grenade.jpg

Now you've created a problem of weight. If you are trying to do it PIAT style it creates a very heavy launcher, with a bit of a kick and nearly silent/poofless, and a heavy round. The LAW is being 'rediscovered' for urban combat, because it doesn't flash as much as the AT4.

Now you've created a problem of weight. If you are trying to do it PIAT style it creates a very heavy launcher, with a bit of a kick and nearly silent/poofless, and a heavy round. The LAW is being 'rediscovered' for urban combat, because it doesn't flash as much as the AT4.

no no no no no...

A built up M-320 (hence the prefix 'H') capable of being stripped off the rifle and used as a mortar, thus, sparing the shooter and the rifle from recoil.

To take advantage of this, it is modified to also accept oversized warheads/rockets mounted on 40 mm booster charges, these are muzzle loaded since that is the only way it can be done.

Firing these large shells, even though it causes large and almost ludicrously large amounts of recoil, these effects can be mostly be ignored by using it as a mortar, including a baseplate to prevent the recoil from burying it in mud.

It is also hinted, that a clever grenadier could also place it upon a wall for near horizontal shooting, or even fire it as a stand alone 40 mm shotgun from the hip (more for comical effect than practical, such as dual weilding a pair of M-249 SAWs...)

And since even the large (105 mm up to 155 mm) shells are given a secondary propellant such as a deayed rocket motor, the flight path of high angle fire is the exact opposite of that seen from conventional shells (steep acsent, gradual (but fast) descent).

Leader of Axis Nova,

We have delivered most of the 10,000 Ka-50 helicopters shipment. All machines are new, fully armed and fueled, and equipped with our latest avionics and AESA radars.
Please wire the respective payment to our account, and the transfer will be completed. You will recieve keys to activate the machines immediately after funds transfer.


With respect,
Steven Kaufman,
Aerospace Logistics Sales Department.

tag.

The Republic of Groznyj
Department of State

Fortunately for the both of us my nation has a vast stockpile of many of the Russian-based equipment you need.

We can sell the following:

61,000 BMP-3's
30,000 BTR-90's
9,000 KA-50's

All of these vehicles come from graveyards and warehouses where they are kept in survivable condition. They can be refurbished into full combat readiness in under a week once you give the word.

Also:

15,000,000 AK-47's
9,000,000 Ak 101's
2,000,000 AK-103's
11,000,000 RPG-29's
3,000 Mi-26's
700,000,000 rounds of 7.62mm ammo can be made and delivered in short time.
500,000,000 rounds of 14.5mm ammo can be made and delivered in short time.
10,000,000 light trucks
15,000,000 medium trucks (you said whatever we can sell)

All above items in the second list can be produced or taken from surplus withing the time specified.

We look forward to doing business.
---End transmission----

ooc: lucky for you (and me =P) I've just mobilized my military and flicked the on switch on my manufacturing industry due to a war I'm soon to be in.

Purchase from Groznyj:

30,000 BMPs: Need to be refurbished in under 3 days only if vehicle operation will not be compromised.

7,000,000 AKs: Need to be shipped immediately for an ongoing war.

1,000,000 RPG-29's: Same as above

500,000,000 of 7.62 mm ammo over two weeks


500 light trucks

1000 heavy trucks


That is all. Please send invoice.

ooc: I thought this was just us selling to Axis Nova? Oh well business is business :D

ic: HDGCFCF:

All items will be shipped pending transfer of funds. Thank you for your business and good luck in your war.

--------------------
My list of products to be sold to Axis Nova still stands!

I need to know how much my times will cost :)

For : :mp5: :sniper:

You mean items? Well for simplicity's sake just let's just assume I've sold them for average market price. I guess there's a 10% price decrease on the stuff I've refurbished as it's not new.

$$$makes me happy

Fine...

$1 trillion Random Units are being sent over as payment.