NationStates Jolt Archive

Since, the main thread has nothing but, mostly occ chatter to make sure IC posts are actually seen and not missed, please direct all occ comments here. If, it worked for the West African thread it can work here to.

On a final note, DP and Vineyard. In the words of ALM- stop butting heads and calm down.

*phew*

thanks UE. I never thought it that. (no really I didn't)

UC. JUst to let you know that I am not attacking Cote D'Ivior (spelling)

Look at the second of the last post i made. I already said that.

UC. JUst to let you know that I am not attacking Cote D'Ivior (spelling)

He knows. Hes jsut attacking you from there.

*phew*

thanks UE. I never thought it that. (no really I didn't)

No Problem, all that occ chatter was making it hard to find IC posts. Should of thought of this sooner, but it just dawn on me when I got on tonight. :headbang:

Anyways, as stated in the OP. Please direct all occ comments here.

I am not attacking anyone right now, but the British.

ok, United Earthlings, I read the occ comment you told me to read. So what do you require? I read thoroughly through it.


and I'll make a post responding to the IC post that you gave me.

ok, United Earthlings, I read the occ comment you told me to read. So what do you require? I read thoroughly through it.


and I'll make a post responding to the IC post that you gave me.

All that I require is a good role play. Explain how you got to the capital so fast, explain how you by passed the entire Senegal armed forces. When, I got off that first night you had just launched the attack against Senegal, when I get back on the very next post you had capture the capital. Real life doesn't work that fast. You have to RP your advance to the capital, attacking the capital and many other things.

Not just role play but, a tell a story, a good one. More then two to three line posts. It's about telling a story. Let his hear about how your soldiers feel and describe the death and destruction that is taking place. Show us in words the horror of war.

If, your having trouble I got lots of examples I can show you. Some simple, some complex.

All that I require is a good role play. Explain how you got to the capital so fast, explain how you by passed the entire Senegal armed forces. When, I got off that first night you had just launched the attack against Senegal, when I get back on the very next post you had capture the capital. Real life doesn't work that fast. You have to RP your advance to the capital, attacking the capital and many other things.

Not just role play but, a tell a story, a good one. More then two to three line posts. It's about telling a story. Let his hear about how your soldiers feel and describe the death and destruction that is taking place. Show us in words the horror of war.

If, your having trouble I got lots of examples I can show you. Some simple, some complex.

ok. I'll try that. But why is everyone obsessed that I'm attacking a country. I mean did you ever annex a country? Why is everyone fretting over it? Do they want it to themselves and then annex it later?

ok. I'll try that. But why is everyone obsessed that I'm attacking a country. I mean did you ever annex a country? Why is everyone fretting over it? Do they want it to themselves and then annex it later?

Dude, everyone does this to evryone. When I anxed Frenched Guyana and Guiana and suriname they went postal. So just get used to it. And welcome to the club! :)

I'm not in this, but can someone explain the Earths for me?

I'm not in this, but can someone explain the Earths for me?

God created the Earth, but as he was doing so he got confused and created to many. This one is Earth V. Their are many others like it but, this one is mine. :D

Just do a search and read the front pages of each Earth that exist. Each one is different. This one is about MT (Modern Tech) based on the real world. It says it all the in the main thread where you apply. I can explain it any better then it could. Let, me see if I can dig up the link.

Here's the link-Here's the mission Statement- Mission Statement: Since the founding of Earth V in 2004, Earth V strives to provide a realistic role-play (RP) simulation of NationStates (NS) nations with real-life territory in the modern-technology (MT) era, in addition maintaining a territory list recognizd outside of Earth V. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=490215)

I hope that answers your question.

It does, thanks.

And nice first paragraph :D

this one is mine. :D


???????? Heeeeeeyyyyyyyyy ????????????

ok. I'll try that. But why is everyone obsessed that I'm attacking a country. I mean did you ever annex a country? Why is everyone fretting over it? Do they want it to themselves and then annex it later?

Well IC, I'm unhappy that your nation is attacking Senegal, a nation that is democratic (which so are my nations) and that it your invasion is nothing but, a war of conquest. Have I IC officially annexed a country. No, I have not. OCC-yes, since I did claim them. I can't speak for the others, they can only speak for themselves. But, I have no interest in Senegal one way or another. As, soon as I kick you out of the country and you agree to stand down. I'm out of their, we democracies have to stick together you know and if you didn't know, Senegal is the most democratic nation in the whole of Africa. As I stated before. If you need aid, I'll be glad to provide it. Weapons (maybe), food, water, money, you name it and ask nicely I would send some your way. But, your intent on annexing a free nation- my Nation/Government will not stand by and let this happen. Now, if you want to invade say your neighbor to the north or some other nation- your free to do so. Just remeber this, if your attacking a democracy- expected to be told it stop and if you refuse expect military action to be directed at you. Now, if you attack a government/nation just as bad as your own. Well, I couldn't care less. I'm done worring about the problems of the world. I was the World Police for away, I'm done with that role now.

Use the Persian Gulf War as an example to see what my goals and mission is.

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Dude, everyone does this to evryone. When I anxed Frenched Guyana and Guiana and suriname they went postal. So just get used to it. And welcome to the club!

Yeah, I remember that. Good times, Good times. Now, look were all friends and allies. Group Hug-:fluffle: , lmao. :D

Worked out well didn't it and all we did was have to sit down and talk. Funny huh.

Well IC, I'm unhappy that your nation is attacking Senegal, a nation that is democratic (which so are my nations) and that it your invasion is nothing but, a war of conquest. Have I IC officially annexed a country. No, I have not. OCC-yes, since I did claim them. I can't speak for the others, they can only speak for themselves. But, I have no interest in Senegal one way or another. As, soon as I kick you out of the country and you agree to stand down. I'm out of their, we democracies have to stick together you know and if you didn't know, Senegal is the most democratic nation in the whole of Africa. As I stated before. If you need aid, I'll be glad to provide it. Weapons (maybe), food, water, money, you name it and ask nicely I would send some your way. But, your intent on annexing a free nation- my Nation/Government will not stand by and let this happen. Now, if you want to invade say your neighbor to the north or some other nation- your free to do so. Just remeber this, if your attacking a democracy- expected to be told it stop and if you refuse expect military action to be directed at you. Now, if you attack a government/nation just as bad as your own. Well, I couldn't care less. I'm done worring about the problems of the world. I was the World Police for away, I'm done with that role now.



OK, 2 two

A) I believe I bought things at your storefront for production rights? Did I get approved for producing them?

B) ooc: fine, Ill pull out of Senegal. But can I annex ,The Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, or Sierra Leone if none of those are claimed.

OK, 2 two

A) I believe I bought things at your storefront for production rights? Did I get approved for producing them?

B) ooc: fine, Ill pull out of Senegal. But can I annex ,The Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, or Sierra Leone if none of those are claimed.

OOC: As long as its a peaceful takeover.

Since, the main thread has nothing but, mostly occ chatter to make sure IC posts are actually seen and not missed, please direct all occ comments here. If, it worked for the West African thread it can work here to.

On a final note, DP and Vineyard. In the words of ALM- stop butting heads and calm down.

I never said calm down, although it's great ad lib :D

Well, here's an excerpt from my most beloved maxim on conquering the world [if Sel Appa is reading this, he will immediately know about what I speak...]

YOU DON'T NEED TO CONQUER THE WORLD IN FORCE TO CONTROL IT.

What does that mean? Well, simply put, make yourself an amiable country, build up a strong force of allies, and display a reasonable force of diplomatic pressure, and people will do what you would like them to do. Politics at its best and worst, it's the art of persuading people that your way is the best way and that not only they benefit from it, but everyone does.

Does this mean you can't have wars? Well, only if it's beneficial to the people who need it most -

Does this mean that everyone will do everything that you want them to do? Well, you can try to make the Hindi eat beef, but there are somethings that you can't change, and quite frankly don't need/want to change anyway. Besiddes, if people like you enough, they just might change, but there are special levers that you never want to touch ["so, how's Tuesday night sound?" - *slap*].

In essence, such a comment like this:

But why is everyone obsessed that I'm attacking a country. I mean did you ever annex a country? Why is everyone fretting over it? Do they want it to themselves and then annex it later?

really doesn't exist because everyone agrees that you taking over that country is *better* than before. The essential problem is that your government neither gave credible evidence [they were attacking me] nor gained significant support for its actions. And trust, having farmers pick up guns and start killing your soldiers might seem to be enough, but it's not really good until their leader picks up a spear and starts to impale half of his virgin male population [this excuse apparently worked well enough for the Ottomans to invade the Hungarian protectorate of Wallachia late in the 14th/15th centuries...].

So... the land grab is probably a very good idea to start out with [after all, who listens IRL to Guinea anyway? In fact more people listen to Senegal than they do to Guinea - and it shows apparently, even as Senegal isn't an active RPing state...]. But my first maxim of starting any RP - [U]get legitimacy to rule your people in the manner as you see fit. Once you become a given state, people will more tacitly accept your presence.

OK, 2 two

A) I believe I bought things at your storefront for production rights? Did I get approved for producing them?

B) ooc: fine, Ill pull out of Senegal. But can I annex ,The Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, or Sierra Leone if none of those are claimed.

A. No, you invaded Senegal and your purchase was placed on hold. If, you withdraw from Senegal without a fight I would be willing to throw in the deal as repayment. You gain something I gain something.

B. Ok, but you have to make an IC statement that your pulling out. Until you do that, your still at war. You can annex any country you want provided you RP a good take over (war or through other means). This goes for both NPC and PC. Now, I can't tell you ahead of time what my governments reaction would be to you invading those countries as you wouldn't know that in real life. But, yes none of those are claimed and if you do a good RP- you would be able to claim them.

I never said calm down, although it's great ad lib :D

Well, here's an excerpt from my most beloved maxim on conquering the world [if Sel Appa is reading this, he will immediately know about what I speak...]

YOU DON'T NEED TO CONQUER THE WORLD IN FORCE TO CONTROL IT.

What does that mean? Well, simply put, make yourself an amiable country, build up a strong force of allies, and display a reasonable force of diplomatic pressure, and people will do what you would like them to do. Politics at its best and worst, it's the art of persuading people that your way is the best way and that not only they benefit from it, but everyone does.

Does this mean you can't have wars? Well, only if it's beneficial to the people who need it most -

Does this mean that everyone will do everything that you want them to do? Well, you can try to make the Hindi eat beef, but there are somethings that you can't change, and quite frankly don't need/want to change anyway. Besiddes, if people like you enough, they just might change, but there are special levers that you never want to touch ["so, how's Tuesday night sound?" - *slap*].

In essence, such a comment like this:
But why is everyone obsessed that I'm attacking a country. I mean did you ever annex a country? Why is everyone fretting over it? Do they want it to themselves and then annex it later?


really doesn't exist because everyone agrees that you taking over that country is *better* than before. The essential problem is that your government neither gave credible evidence [they were attacking me] nor gained significant support for its actions. And trust, having farmers pick up guns and start killing your soldiers might seem to be enough, but it's not really good until their leader picks up a spear and starts to impale half of his virgin male population [this excuse apparently worked well enough for the Ottomans to invade the Hungarian protectorate of Wallachia late in the 14th/15th centuries...].

So... the land grab is probably a very good idea to start out with [after all, who listens IRL to Guinea anyway? In fact more people listen to Senegal than they do to Guinea - and it shows apparently, even as Senegal isn't an active RPing state...]. But my first maxim of starting any RP - [U]get legitimacy to rule your people in the manner as you see fit. Once you become a given state, people will more tacitly accept your presence.

Well said... Just thought I add in a few things, since the study of history is my passion and one statement you made was kind of untrue.

"YOU DON'T NEED TO CONQUER THE WORLD IN FORCE TO CONTROL IT."

That's true and also false at the same time. The Greeks, the Romans, the Huns, the Mongol’s, the Ottomans, the Spanish and the British to just name a few would probably disagree with you at one point or another over the above statement. The list goes on and on. Suffice to say, every nation or state on this planet has been shaped (forged) by the forces of war (conquest). It is at the edge of a sword or the end of a barrel that true control comes from.

The genius of Clausewitz said it the best "War is not a mere act of policy but a true political instrument, a continuation of political activity by other means." and "War is . . . an act of force to compel our enemy to do our will." Those two phrases hold true even today, even though they were written by a man more then 100 years ago.

I think a better statement would be- "YOU DON'T NEED TO CONQUER THE WORLD IN FORCE TO INFLUENCE IT, BUT YOU DO TO CONTROL IT." or some variation on that. As, you said politics have the greatest influence and war is just a continuation of those politics.

In closing, some nations have come up with some very bad excuses to go to war. The reason didn't matter much if you won, as the victor writes the history more often then naught. But, if you lost that war- then the reason behind that war can on a mere spoken of its words topple nations and governments. In a final note, some nations have even gone to war against other nations for no reason at all.

OCC: You know what they say, the bigger they are the harder they fall. Boy, you better wake up. You're messing with the wrong kid on the block. Yes, I factored in using a rotational basis. Still doesn't mean he'll be able to maintain Air Superiority for 24/7. Aircraft ware out and need service. It's called realism. Don't make me hit you with the dictionary. All his tankers are in Israel, at least the one he has stated-he has stated it is a work in progress as is mine. After, the West African crisis I came up with a few things I wanted to add. Haven't gotten their yet. So, your war might have to wait or not, I can add them in as we go. I'm flexible.

Believe me when I say I already got a force on the way and it will hit the mainland (land in Senegal) in just a few hours. Isn't air flight a joy. I'm just waiting for Maldorians to reply. Then I post my next move. So, chill out and have a beer or something. You just demonstrated again what I said about rushing. So, before your head explodes with this war thing- give EVERYONE a chance to respond. I made it nice and big so even in your dazed state you could understand everyone.


Here comes the Patriacal monotony from U.E again. hoo hum :rolleyes: mate the sense your making i dont think you through a dr seuss book at me :D


not flaming but instead of a earth moderator but you should be an earth goderator (. how the frack can you expect to launch a succesdul invasion of the senegal with the might of the kopperburgs, South Africa, CWAA, and Gunea. when we have the home advantage so to speak. (Ok its not really a god mod but you see my point, Hopefully.) is you military air traffic heading for the Ivory coast? where presumably M.C is accomodating your troops. Thats the only friendly nation in the region who will have you there. a large scale Invasions going to be more than a few hours to get to senegal. maybe you could launch some sought of covert special ops thing but not a massive full scale invasion of the continent (maybe Im paranoid hmmm :) ) in this time frame without a prior R.P to elaborate on this specifying how long the journey will take before reaching "the one hour to Imminent destruction zone"


And this goes for you to dweladelfia prime. Do a "relatively" decent R.p. please for how your. Russian "lada" :p carriers get to the continent of Africa as opposed to just saying "my FLEET IS COMING AND WE SHALL SMITE THOU... so give Maldorians a break and stop preaching on his r.p. dudes. ( Im contradicting myself on this but i need to share my two cents:upyours: )

Here comes the Patriacal monotony from U.E again. hoo hum :rolleyes: mate the sense your making i dont think you through a dr seuss book at me :D


not flaming but instead of a earth moderator but you should be an earth goderator (. how the frack can you expect to launch a succesdul invasion of the senegal with the might of the kopperburgs, South Africa, CWAA, and Gunea. when we have the home advantage so to speak. (Ok its not really a god mod but you see my point, Hopefully.) is you military air traffic heading for the Ivory coast? where presumably M.C is accomodating your troops. Thats the only friendly nation in the region who will have you there. a large scale Invasions going to be more than a few hours to get to senegal. maybe you could launch some sought of covert special ops thing but not a massive full scale invasion of the continent (maybe Im paranoid hmmm :) ) in this time frame without a prior R.P to elaborate on this specifying how long the journey will take before reaching "the one hour to Imminent destruction zone"


And this goes for you to dweladelfia prime. Do a "relatively" decent R.p. please for how your. Russian "lada" :p carriers get to the continent of Africa as opposed to just saying "my FLEET IS COMING AND WE SHALL SMITE THOU... so give Maldorians a break and stop preaching on his r.p. dudes. ( Im contradicting myself on this but i need to share my two cents:upyours: )

:confused:, I'm not even going to try to understand that message. For the love of God use a spell checker and reread through your message. Your's above made about as much sense as, well it just didn't make sense. If, anyone understood that message- please translate for me. Thanks

Here comes the Patriacal monotony from U.E again. hoo hum :rolleyes: mate the sense your making i dont think you through a dr seuss book at me :D


not flaming but instead of a earth moderator but you should be an earth goderator (. how the frack can you expect to launch a succesdul invasion of the senegal with the might of the kopperburgs, South Africa, CWAA, and Gunea. when we have the home advantage so to speak. (Ok its not really a god mod but you see my point, Hopefully.) is you military air traffic heading for the Ivory coast? where presumably M.C is accomodating your troops. Thats the only friendly nation in the region who will have you there. a large scale Invasions going to be more than a few hours to get to senegal. maybe you could launch some sought of covert special ops thing but not a massive full scale invasion of the continent (maybe Im paranoid hmmm :) ) in this time frame without a prior R.P to elaborate on this specifying how long the journey will take before reaching "the one hour to Imminent destruction zone"


And this goes for you to dweladelfia prime. Do a "relatively" decent R.p. please for how your. Russian "lada" :p carriers get to the continent of Africa as opposed to just saying "my FLEET IS COMING AND WE SHALL SMITE THOU... so give Maldorians a break and stop preaching on his r.p. dudes. ( Im contradicting myself on this but i need to share my two cents:upyours: )

Sorry to bust your bubble but me UE and MC are way stronger than you guys. Sorry. :) Oh btw. Learn to spell.

A few things that came up lately in the IC posts that deserve some attention.

1. Persecution and Hatred please explain these two statements. The deployment of the Senegalese defense army was taking longer than expected. Only an elite detachment of South African Marines have arrived at the Guinean government compound at Dakar(?) to solely protect the South African civilian and logistical and intelligence personnel already operating in Dakar..... Actually the Senegalese Army has already been deployed and is fighting the invading Guinean army. A lessen I learned from an earlier RP. Role Play your troops leaving and arrival. How exactly is that South African detachment going to get to Dakar? Ship? Plane? The hand of GOD? Third time I have had to say this and it will be the last. Maldorians in my opinion did not properly explain how his army got to Dakar so fast. In, fact he did only one post with moving troops into Senegal and then the next post after that his forces were in Dakar. So, until he does a good post explaining IC how he got there so fast and at the same time having no Air Force and having by passed all of the Senegal Army. I have been ignoring his statement that his forces are in Dakar. To my knowledge, their still fighting on the southern border.

2. ooc heres a basic outline for my expeditionary force moving into Senegal.. Again, Persecution and Hatred please explain how they plan to get to Senegal. Land, sea or air? If, by land that's going to take a very long time. If by Sea not as long but still about a week or so and by air will be the quickest but, not the safest. Lastly, do you plan to attack us without a declaration of war or can I assume that his army by your post is pretty much a rogue army and is not condone by the Republic?

3. Candistan- Thanks, and remember not so fast. In, fact we should put this RP on hold until Maldorians is active again. Actually, as of my last IC post I had just arrival in Dakar so, until more of my forces arrive, I plan to stay in Dakar to defend it against attack. Once, my fleet arrivals and most of my troops will I go on the offensive and with most of my effort direction against Guinea.

4. Dweladelfia prime- Little fast in getting their, but you did give a RP a few days ago. Still, be aware that my forces are closer and would get their sooner then yours. Some of them not all, yes I have some coming from the Netherlands. Longer trip then from Spain and Portugal. Next, you should make a post making contact with elements of my military. Remember, the 12th Fighter Group and the 1st Para would have been already in the country about a week by the time you arrived. Plus, other units arriving by air. I already set up a perimeter protecting Dakar. I had also already started construction of make shift airfields. Also, DP I would make it 8 hours. That is complete deployment along the borders with the CWAA.

5. OOC:
I'm really busy at the moment, and it may continue one or two days more. Sorry for that...

Just want to remember that I'm having a lot of planes flying over Senegal, and a lot of ships (one carrier battle group) in the waters between Cape Verde and Senegal. If you're ignoring them, well it's up to you...

Later.... As, I have stated maybe this RP should be put on hold until all have a chance to take part.

I'm not ignoring all together but, you'd have to RP them being active which of course due to your time limits you have not done. I've also address some of the issues you stated that I disagree with. Example- It would be impossible to maintain Air Superiority 24/7. On the first day it would be possible but, by the 5th most of the aircraft would be in need of service. That is of course a realistic world and which I think goes to the heart of Earth V.

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I'll get an IC post up later today.

A few things that came up lately in the IC posts that deserve some attention.

1. Persecution and Hatred please explain these two statements. . Actually the Senegalese Army has already been deployed and is fighting the invading Guinean army. A lessen I learned from an earlier RP. Role Play your troops leaving and arrival. How exactly is that South African detachment going to get to Dakar? Ship? Plane? The hand of GOD? Third time I have had to say this and it will be the last. Maldorians in my opinion did not properly explain how his army got to Dakar so fast. In, fact he did only one post with moving troops into Senegal and then the next post after that his forces were in Dakar. So, until he does a good post explaining IC how he got there so fast and at the same time having no Air Force and having by passed all of the Senegal Army. I have been ignoring his statement that his forces are in Dakar. To my knowledge, their still fighting on the southern border.

2. . Again, Persecution and Hatred please explain how they plan to get to Senegal. Land, sea or air? If, by land that's going to take a very long time. If by Sea not as long but still about a week or so and by air will be the quickest but, not the safest. Lastly, do you plan to attack us without a declaration of war or can I assume that his army by your post is pretty much a rogue army and is not condone by the Republic?

3. Candistan- Thanks, and remember not so fast. In, fact we should put this RP on hold until Maldorians is active again. Actually, as of my last IC post I had just arrival in Dakar so, until more of my forces arrive, I plan to stay in Dakar to defend it against attack. Once, my fleet arrivals and most of my troops will I go on the offensive and with most of my effort direction against Guinea.

4. Dweladelfia prime- Little fast in getting their, but you did give a RP a few days ago. Still, be aware that my forces are closer and would get their sooner then yours. Some of them not all, yes I have some coming from the Netherlands. Longer trip then from Spain and Portugal. Next, you should make a post making contact with elements of my military. Remember, the 12th Fighter Group and the 1st Para would have been already in the country about a week by the time you arrived. Plus, other units arriving by air. I already set up a perimeter protecting Dakar. I had also already started construction of make shift airfields. Also, DP I would make it 8 hours. That is complete deployment along the borders with the CWAA.

5. . As, I have stated maybe this RP should be put on hold until all have a chance to take part.

I'm not ignoring all together but, you'd have to RP them being active which of course due to your time limits you have not done. I've also address some of the issues you stated that I disagree with. Example- It would be impossible to maintain Air Superiority 24/7. On the first day it would be possible but, by the 5th most of the aircraft would be in need of service. That is of course a realistic world and which I think goes to the heart of Earth V.

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I'll get an IC post up later today.

It took me 3 RL days getting there..... Ill post contact soon.

OK, 2 two

A) I believe I bought things at your storefront for production rights? Did I get approved for producing them?

B) ooc: fine, Ill pull out of Senegal. But can I annex ,The Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, or Sierra Leone if none of those are claimed.

OOC: Nah dog, are you kidding me!? all of that time and work put into this and your guys are just pulling out while me and South Afrika rush in for no reason other to take unneeded losses! I thought the point was to tell a story and that winning was only a second feature. If your country gets invaded and pilaged, fine. The CWAA would help you back up. We would expect the same from you. So dont quit. Please, please dont quit

OOC: Nah dog, are you kidding me!? all of that time and work put into this and your guys are just pulling out while me and South Afrika rush in for no reason other to take unneeded losses! I thought the point was to tell a story and that winning was only a second feature. If your country gets invaded and pilaged, fine. The CWAA would help you back up. We would expect the same from you. So dont quit. Please, please dont quit

Your going to lose. Just pull out.

In all likelihood, all that work you did will be pointless. Maldorians hasn't been active in days and it seems his nation is heading towards the red list.

This is why I advised everyone to put a hold on the RP and wait for the others to come back that haven't been active. Their say would make a big difference in this war as it is developing. This is why I stated I wouldn't post any more IC replies until those said nations namely, ALM- Maldorians-Koppersberg*-TGSR-Sharina got active again.

As I said before, continue at your own risk. A lot of players are being ignored and that just doesn't work for a good RP.

You all have been warned. Keep posting and all that work you did will with the most certainty at this point become null and voided.

Your going to lose. Just pull out.
Just found this.

Yea, DP...

You know how you sent your navy to Africa?

Well Im sending mine to Peru.

Unless you want to pull out...

And you honestly cannot tell people to "Learn to spell". Seriously. You of all people

Here comes the Patriacal monotony from U.E again. hoo hum :rolleyes: mate the sense your making i dont think you through a dr seuss book at me :D


not flaming but instead of a earth moderator but you should be an earth goderator (. how the frack can you expect to launch a succesdul invasion of the senegal with the might of the kopperburgs, South Africa, CWAA, and Gunea. when we have the home advantage so to speak. (Ok its not really a god mod but you see my point, Hopefully.) is you military air traffic heading for the Ivory coast? where presumably M.C is accomodating your troops. Thats the only friendly nation in the region who will have you there. a large scale Invasions going to be more than a few hours to get to senegal. maybe you could launch some sought of covert special ops thing but not a massive full scale invasion of the continent (maybe Im paranoid hmmm :) ) in this time frame without a prior R.P to elaborate on this specifying how long the journey will take before reaching "the one hour to Imminent destruction zone"


And this goes for you to dweladelfia prime. Do a "relatively" decent R.p. please for how your. Russian "lada" :p carriers get to the continent of Africa as opposed to just saying "my FLEET IS COMING AND WE SHALL SMITE THOU... so give Maldorians a break and stop preaching on his r.p. dudes. ( Im contradicting myself on this but i need to share my two cents:upyours: )


...I'm not even going to try to understand that message. For the love of God use a spell checker and reread through your message. Your's above made about as much sense as, well it just didn't make sense. If, anyone understood that message- please translate for me. Thanks

Translation:

Here comes the paternal monotony from United Earthlings again. Hoo hum! :rolleyes: Mate, with the sense you are making, I would think you threw a Theodor Seuss Geisel book at me. :D

I am not flaming, but I must believe that instead of an “earth moderator” you should be an “earth godmoderator.” How the f*** can you expect to launch a successful invasion of Senegal with the might of Koppersberg, South Africa, CWAA, and Guinea? We have the home advantage!

Okay, maybe it is not really a “godmod.” Regardless, you see my point...hopefully. Is your military air traffic heading for the Ivory Coast? In where presumably Military Command is accommodating your troops. Military Command is the only friendly nation in the region who would permit you to be there.

In such a large scale invasion, it is going to take more than a few hours to get to Senegal. Perhaps you could launch some sort of covert special operations assault, but definitely not a massive full-scale invasion of the continent! (Or maybe I'm being paranoid :)...) In this time frame without a prior role-play occurrence to elaborate specifying how long the journey will take before reaching "the one hour to imminent destruction zone."

I always wish to address Dweladelfia Prime. Dweladelfia Prime, please do a relatively decent role-play! Specifically, show how your Russian “la-da!" (:p) carriers get to the continent of Africa, instead of just saying "my FLEET IS COMING AND WE SHALL SMITE THOU!” Give Maldorians a break and stop preaching on his role-play obligations. Of course, I am contradicting myself on this, but I need to share my two cents! :upyours:

TAG for perusing issues. I'll try to address everything today sometime.

Right. Okay. This took some time to sift through, but here are all the issues as I see them, as well as my rulings. I might remind all that according to TG6R I'm able to moderate this war- so what I say goes. Do not try to argue with me OOCly- if you really think you got shafted on an issue, a TG explaining the facts as you see them should suffice.

First, for everyone. Two things. OOC and IC need to be distinguished from each other. If it's an OOC post or thought, put it in OOC tags ([OOC- blah blah blah]) or post it here in the OOC thread. Dweladelfia, you've been merging IC and OOC way too much in this war thread, so please try to seperate the two out a lot more. Spelling is the other big issue- everyone has a computer and every computer comes with some kind of word processing program. Put your post into said program and spell check it. Some posts are completely intelligble because of major spelling and grammar issues.

Any new posts that display the bad features I just talked about will from this point forward not be counted in any way- I don't care if you do something in a post that's horrendously written or OOC and IC at the same time- it will not play any role. WE need at least semi-crisp and clean RP here people.

Now. Issues.

1. Maldorians hasn't RPed for a while. That doesn't mean the invasion does not stand- we can assume his troops are probing forward and strengthening their positions. The invasion and all of this international incident are still happening as of now.

2. Realism: Senegal's better military. A big issue. Maldorians and his other allies would not have penetyrated into Senegal so quickly and there really should still be huge fights going on for even some areas of the border. At the same time, UE and DP should not be easily landing troops. Senegal's military and political leadership does not want foreign nations who have had expansionist policies in the past in. If you want to get into the country, you need to begin a massive round of talks with the Senegalses government (talks which might not go your way) or launch an attack against Senegal to get your troops and planes in. The same goes for naval vessels in Senegalese water, etc...
Senegal will resist all foreign nations trying to move troops into Senegal until the political situation changes dramatiucally

3. Russian Super Carriers owned by DP. Well, for one, there are no Russian super carriers, so it'd be a bit hard to own them. Were development to have happened on the Ulyanovsk beyond '92 ( and thus its subsequent scrapping) there might be a possibility, but Russia had no supercarreirs and construction would take immense amounts of time. Great Romeo developed the class, but has only constructed 2 and has not sold them to you. So you do not have Russian super carriers. Please rectify your military thread and posts accordingly. You've also listed too many Typhoon subs in your military declarations thread, so you should fix that. Typhoon subs you have- Ulyanvsk carriers you don't.

4. Following up with that-DP: nukes? No. You bought the SLBMs from GR, but never bought nuclear warheads (something he specifically stated). You've never RPed development of a nuclear program, so you don't have your own. Therefore, your subs carry SLBMs, can launch said SLBMs, but said SLBMs do not carry nuclear warheads.

5. More stuff with missiles. Vineyard, you launched ICBMs. Those have the problem of being unable to maneouver past their inital stages- a reason why ICBMs are strategic-level weapons. So you can launch ICBMS at DP's aircraft carreirs, but they will be unable to change course to home in on the ships. Basically, when the ICBM hits its apex, it comes down. Whatever it was pointing at at its apex, it comes down on. No changing direction or moving after other targets. They're not cruise missiles, they're ICBMs. At the same time, DP, you cannot just intercept the missiles and blow them up with no loss to yourself. Maybe you can get out of it with maneouver combined with firing at the ICBMs, but Vineyard launched quite a few and ICBMs are tricky to bring down.

6. People moving too fast: as of now, everyone has done this. Both sides have moved troops too fast to get near Senegal, and since everyone did, there's on problem. Carry on- your armies and naval units are nearing Senegal or, in some cases like the African nations near Senegal, at its borders and fighting.

7. Kopparsberg's overflights: Possible, but quite tricky. He can do it, but it'll be easy to screw up. And there is nowhere near perfect coverage- his planes are going real far and then having to patrol. So he has air coverage, but that can be changed.

That's all I have right now- if you see any other issues that need to be addressed, please bring them up.

Right. Okay. This took some time to sift through, but here are all the issues as I see them, as well as my rulings. I might remind all that according to TG6R I'm able to moderate this war- so what I say goes. Do not try to argue with me OOCly- if you really think you got shafted on an issue, a TG explaining the facts as you see them should suffice.

First, for everyone. Two things. OOC and IC need to be distinguished from each other. If it's an OOC post or thought, put it in OOC tags ([OOC- blah blah blah]) or post it here in the OOC thread. Dweladelfia, you've been merging IC and OOC way too much in this war thread, so please try to seperate the two out a lot more. Spelling is the other big issue- everyone has a computer and every computer comes with some kind of word processing program. Put your post into said program and spell check it. Some posts are completely intelligble because of major spelling and grammar issues.

Any new posts that display the bad features I just talked about will from this point forward not be counted in any way- I don't care if you do something in a post that's horrendously written or OOC and IC at the same time- it will not play any role. WE need at least semi-crisp and clean RP here people.

Now. Issues.

1. Maldorians hasn't RPed for a while. That doesn't mean the invasion does not stand- we can assume his troops are probing forward and strengthening their positions. The invasion and all of this international incident are still happening as of now.

2. Realism: Senegal's better military. A big issue. Maldorians and his other allies would not have penetyrated into Senegal so quickly and there really should still be huge fights going on for even some areas of the border. At the same time, UE and DP should not be easily landing troops. Senegal's military and political leadership does not want foreign nations who have had expansionist policies in the past in. If you want to get into the country, you need to begin a massive round of talks with the Senegalses government (talks which might not go your way) or launch an attack against Senegal to get your troops and planes in. The same goes for naval vessels in Senegalese water, etc...
Senegal will resist all foreign nations trying to move troops into Senegal until the political situation changes dramatiucally

3. Russian Super Carriers owned by DP. Well, for one, there are no Russian super carriers, so it'd be a bit hard to own them. Were development to have happened on the Ulyanovsk beyond '92 ( and thus its subsequent scrapping) there might be a possibility, but Russia had no supercarreirs and construction would take immense amounts of time. Great Romeo developed the class, but has only constructed 2 and has not sold them to you. So you do not have Russian super carriers. Please rectify your military thread and posts accordingly. You've also listed too many Typhoon subs in your military declarations thread, so you should fix that. Typhoon subs you have- Ulyanvsk carriers you don't.

4. Following up with that-DP: nukes? No. You bought the SLBMs from GR, but never bought nuclear warheads (something he specifically stated). You've never RPed development of a nuclear program, so you don't have your own. Therefore, your subs carry SLBMs, can launch said SLBMs, but said SLBMs do not carry nuclear warheads.

5. More stuff with missiles. Vineyard, you launched ICBMs. Those have the problem of being unable to maneouver past their inital stages- a reason why ICBMs are strategic-level weapons. So you can launch ICBMS at DP's aircraft carreirs, but they will be unable to change course to home in on the ships. Basically, when the ICBM hits its apex, it comes down. Whatever it was pointing at at its apex, it comes down on. No changing direction or moving after other targets. They're not cruise missiles, they're ICBMs. At the same time, DP, you cannot just intercept the missiles and blow them up with no loss to yourself. Maybe you can get out of it with maneouver combined with firing at the ICBMs, but Vineyard launched quite a few and ICBMs are tricky to bring down.

6. People moving too fast: as of now, everyone has done this. Both sides have moved troops too fast to get near Senegal, and since everyone did, there's on problem. Carry on- your armies and naval units are nearing Senegal or, in some cases like the African nations near Senegal, at its borders and fighting.

7. Kopparsberg's overflights: Possible, but quite tricky. He can do it, but it'll be easy to screw up. And there is nowhere near perfect coverage- his planes are going real far and then having to patrol. So he has air coverage, but that can be changed.

That's all I have right now- if you see any other issues that need to be addressed, please bring them up.


I do have russian Super carriers. If you have problom with it deal with it, Gr built them for me long before he made a deal with vinyard.

Please provide evidence for that claim- GR posting here would be best, otherwise the e-mails or TGs you sent to negotiate the deal work out. Posts would also be fine, if it was negotiated IC.

And please, PLEASE do not quote massive posts- just quote the part that you want to talk about. It helps the page flow much better.

GR please post that you sold me those 3 carriers along time ago.

The way GR posts these days, it will take you quite awhile.

Please provide evidence for that claim- GR posting here would be best, otherwise the e-mails or TGs you sent to negotiate the deal work out. Posts would also be fine, if it was negotiated IC.
Here they are, but remember that production was started only after the order was received each time, and aircraft carriers take a long time to produce.

The Brazilian Empire of Dweladelfia prime
Received: 62 days ago Dweladelfia Prime would like to order:

1 Orel Ul'yanovsk class
5 Fregat II Udaloy-II class
30 MiG-29K
30 Su-33
10 Yak-141 Freestyle

-----------------------------
The Brazilian Empire of Dweladelfia prime
Received: 55 days ago Dweladelfa Prime would liek to order 2 more Project 1143.7 Orel Ul'yanovsk class. And the planes to go with them. Thanks!

Are you joining to EATO?

The way GR posts these days, it will take you quite awhile.
:p

So anyways. I do have them/

All right. Thank you for going through the trouble to prove you have them.

Consider point 3 voided. DP has proven that he does own and possess Russian-designed carriers.

All right. Thank you for going through the trouble to prove you have them.

Consider point 3 voided. DP has proven that he does own and possess Russian-designed carriers.
Let me get this straight: DP has 60 ICBM's that have nothing in them?

And I had not known ICBM's could not move mid-flight. Thanks for the clarification.

Regardless, its difficult, very difficult, to bring down an ICBM. I would especially like to know when DP developed anti-missle systems, as I had already RPed the development of mine. Like a yea and a half ago IRL. Want me to dig that up? That will be... very time consuming...

DP has ICBMs that, at the most, contain HE. His ships themselves would have missiles that could be modified to anti-ICBM work. It's basically progamming changes, but it is quite difficult to bring one down, so everyone do keep that in mind. Even with dedicated missiles, it's been beastly for the US (most technologically advanced in the field of missile technology at this time) to develop an effective missile defense system.

And since you haven't been attacked by ICBMs yet and thus have not RPed missile defense, no need to get the posts. And, if there's nothing wrong when you eventually (well, amybe) do use them, you'll not need to provide backup. Evidence is only needed for points of contention in RPs.

Let me get this straight: DP has 60 ICBM's that have nothing in them?

And I had not known ICBM's could not move mid-flight. Thanks for the clarification.

Regardless, its difficult, very difficult, to bring down an ICBM. I would especially like to know when DP developed anti-missle systems, as I had already RPed the development of mine. Like a yea and a half ago IRL. Want me to dig that up? That will be... very time consuming...
The apex of the launch trajectory is just before number 6, in case you're wondering:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Minuteman_III_MIRV_path.svg/800px-Minuteman_III_MIRV_path.svg.png

Remember about MIRVs, too. A bunch of MIRVs would be much more difficult to take done than an ICBM.

Yay for MIRVs! And nice picture.

Of course, I did kind of obversimplify, as warheads can technically (well, if we believe the Russians) maneouver while coming back in. However, they do it to avoid interception, so can't re-route targeting. They just move a bit to be able to hit their target and not be blown up.

Ok, you found the occ thread I created good. Second, much better. Yeah, this war really needed a Moderator. Even the issue of the ICBM which I was going to bring up, but never did got addressed. So, now I address the points that have to do with me.

1. Maldorians hasn't RPed for a while. That doesn't mean the invasion does not stand- we can assume his troops are probing forward and strengthening their positions. The invasion and all of this international incident are still happening as of now.

Issue 1- I never said the invasion didn't stand, I just said the invasion is kind of pointless if the person who started it becomes inactive. So, if Maldorians is no longer with us. How does this effect the RP, is what I want to know. If, the invasion never happens then I never would have sent troops. Not, a single one. But, even if he disappears from the Earth V. Does the invasion still count? If, so that would created different circumstances I would have to address and I would of course be reacting different to them.

2. Realism: Senegal's better military. A big issue. Maldorians and his other allies would not have penetrated into Senegal so quickly and there really should still be huge fights going on for even some areas of the border. At the same time, UE and DP should not be easily landing troops. Senegal's military and political leadership does not want foreign nations who have had expansionist policies in the past in. If you want to get into the country, you need to begin a massive round of talks with the Senegalese government (talks which might not go your way) or launch an attack against Senegal to get your troops and planes in. The same goes for naval vessels in Senegalese water, etc...
Senegal will resist all foreign nations trying to move troops into Senegal until the political situation changes dramatically

Issue 2-I agree that I would have to open talks with the Senegalese government. However, that presents a problem. How exactly do I do that when one 1. No one is playing Senegal and 2. have a discussion with the government without being called that I'm God Mod or biased. Because, in both cases they would be right. All I can do is assume (imply) that I had talks with them and that they agreed to let me put forces into their nation to help defend them. Now, why I didn't exactly Role Play having a meeting with the Senegalese Government, something which in hindsight I should have. I did state IC, that I was sending said forces to help support the Senegalese Armed Forces. In, other words I was going to place control of my forces under the Senegalese Government. From my IC post "Our only goal is to maintain the sovereignty of the democratic government of Senegal. We will neither annex, claim or control the nations of Senegal or Guinea.

We ask our fellow nations of this world to support us either through aid, military force or by other means to evict the rogue nation of Guinea from Senegal."

Last I checked, the world covered Senegal, right? Yes, I know that's a generalization; but, given how fast this RP has moved. Way to fast for my taste. It was the best I could manage.

5. More stuff with missiles, Vineyard you launched ICBM’s. Those have the problem of being unable to maneuver past their initial stages- a reason why ICBM’s are strategic-level weapons. So you can launch ICBM’s at DP's Aircraft Carriers, but they will be unable to change course to home in on the ships. Basically, when the ICBM hits its apex, it comes down. Whatever it was pointing at its apex, it comes down on. No changing direction or moving after other targets. They're not cruise missiles, they're ICBM’s. At the same time, DP, you cannot just intercept the missiles and blow them up with no loss to yourself. Maybe you can get out of it with maneuver combined with firing at the ICBM’S, but Vineyard launched quite a few and ICBM’S are tricky to bring down.

Just a few points, that I think are really important. Missies have something called CEP or Circular Error Probability. ICBM's and the warheads they carry have the greatest CEP of any missile weapon system. So, depending on the type of missile Vineyard launched, which of course he never stated- the odds of the missile (warheads) hitting a moving target like a ship (something they weren't designed for) is highly remote. Here's a link about CEP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_Error_Probable).

My last point, Samtonia your statement about not being able to intercept the missiles and destroy them (blow them up) without suffering a loss of life is wrong. The United States and Western Countries actually have been working on that very problem for the past 10-20 years. They have made some progress. Here is but, a few examples. The SM-2 Family of Missiles (http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/sm2.htm)/The Patriot Missile (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patriot/)/The THAAD (Theatre High Altitude Area Defense) missile system (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/thaad/)/The Medium Extended Air Defense System (MEADS) (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/meads/). There are also many other type of programs in operation or in development. But, yes they are tricky to bring down but, not impossible.

6. People moving too fast: as of now, everyone has done this. Both sides have moved troops too fast to get near Senegal, and since everyone did, there's on problem. Carry on- your armies and naval units are nearing Senegal or, in some cases like the African nations near Senegal, at its borders and fighting.

Might, I suggest that since this RP has gone way to fast and a lot of stuff has been skip over that when all players get active again we start this RP from the beginning and this time with a Moderator.

7. Kopparsberg's overflights: Possible, but quite tricky. He can do it, but it'll be easy to screw up. And there is nowhere near perfect coverage- his planes are going real far and then having to patrol. So he has air coverage, but that can be changed.

I also brought up another issue, most of his air power is being projected from the Cape Verde Islands and he has stated the Islands base 300 Lava Fighters. I looked over the terrain of the Cape Verde and it would seem to me that basing 300 fighters there is quite a stretch. Also, he said he's projecting a fleet and it was already there. His nearest Fleet from his military Declaration are in Nigeria and Algeria. Not exactly the closest distance to Senegal without some travel time. If, you could look into those issues I would be most grateful. The travel time is something which is hardly RP, it's always wam bam I'm their. I've done this a few times and been called on it thankfully. This one, I actually calculated the distances from my varies bases to Senegal and the time it would take.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

And in closing- Thank you Persecution and Hatred for the translation. That message I actually understood. See how a simple spell check and proof reading of your work can make a difference. I hate to say it, but Proper English matters here. I knew that day would come and I'd have to say that. :headbang: (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11900909&postcount=31)

Issue 1- I never said the invasion didn't stand, I just said the invasion is kind of pointless if the person who started it becomes inactive. So, if Maldorians is no longer with us. How does this effect the RP, is what I want to know. If, the invasion never happens then I never would have sent troops. Not, a single one. But, even if he disappears from the Earth V. Does the invasion still count? If, so that would created different circumstances I would have to address and I would of course be reacting different to them.


The invasion still counts. If he disappears, assume that a military junta has taken over the nation or something like that. If needed, I'll input government and military decisions for him. Keeps the RP going.


Issue 2-I agree that I would have to open talks with the Senegalese government. However, that presents a problem. How exactly do I do that when one 1. No one is playing Senegal and 2. have a discussion with the government without being called that I'm God Mod or biased. Because, in both cases they would be right. All I can do is assume (imply) that I had talks with them and that they agreed to let me put forces into their nation to help defend them. Now, why I didn't exactly Role Play having a meeting with the Senegalese Government, something which in hindsight I should have. I did state IC, that I was sending said forces to help support the Senegalese Armed Forces. In, other words I was going to place control of my forces under the Senegalese Government. From my IC post "Our only goal is to maintain the sovereignty of the democratic government of Senegal. We will neither annex, claim or control the nations of Senegal or Guinea.

We ask our fellow nations of this world to support us either through aid, military force or by other means to evict the rogue nation of Guinea from Senegal."

Last I checked, the world covered Senegal, right? Yes, I know that's a generalization; but, given how fast this RP has moved. Way to fast for my taste. It was the best I could manage.

Okay. Here's what the situation is. Yes, Senegal has no player. Therefore, as the moderator for this war, I'll do their actions. We'll Retcon any posts you made with stuff based in Senegal and this is how your talks with the Senegalese went:

They agree to you flying interdiction and air support missions, but do not agree for any non-Senegalese ground forces or naval vessels at this time. They agree that if the war starts going badly then talks should be revisited, but as of now, with the invaders halted at the border, they see no need for any foreign ground forces to be in Senegal. You can base your aircraft out of Senegalese airports, but not too many as the airports aren't necessarily the best.

Something to be done for all future RPs with a non-player nation, I think. Get a mod, be it an annexation or what have you and the mod will tell you actions of that government and nation.


Just a few points, that I think are really important. Missies have something called CEP or Circular Error Probability. ICBM's and the warheads they carry have the greatest CEP of any missile weapon system. So, depending on the type of missile Vineyard launched, which of course he never stated- the odds of the missile (warheads) hitting a moving target like a ship (something they weren't designed for) is highly remote. Here's a link about CEP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_Error_Probable).


WEll, no, not really. Depending on model of ICBM, guidance system, warhead used, etc....

As a rule of thumb, yes, an ICBM will be less accurate than a cruise missile. But it's not always the case, as technology plays a big role. Equal tech ICBM is less accurate than a crusie missile (mush less accurate, as a matter of fact). Unequal tech missiles, it could be the other way around.

Which brings me to the next point...


My last point, Samtonia your statement about not being able to intercept the missiles and destroy them (blow them up) without suffering a loss of life is wrong. The United States and Western Countries actually have been working on that very problem for the past 10-20 years. They have made some progress. Here is but, a few examples. The SM-2 Family of Missiles (http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/sm2.htm)/The Patriot Missile (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patriot/)/The THAAD (Theatre High Altitude Area Defense) missile system (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/thaad/)/The Medium Extended Air Defense System (MEADS) (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/meads/). There are also many other type of programs in operation or in development. But, yes they are tricky to bring down but, not impossible.

Might I remind you of the failure rate of those systems when attempting to shoot down ICBMs? Oh, right- extremely high. ICBM interception is a very difficult thing, esepecially when you throw in warheads with multiple MIRVs, maneouverable MIRVs, sensor decoys, and all the fun stuff employed when people really, really want to nuke you. It's not impossible to bring down a nuclear missile- it's just so difficult that an advanced nuclear missile has never gotten close to being brought down.

Yes, there are missile tests that swat ICBMs out of the sky (well, 4 of the 7 times so far) but those are missiles that aren't seperating like modern missiles, aren't coming in waves, and aren't accompained by any of the things that usually accompany nuclear missiles. I'm not saying that interception is flat out- if someone fires one missile, sure, you have a decent chance at taking it out. But if someone goes MAD on you? Get to the bunkers- you're not stopping it. You might get some missiles, but definately not enough to prevent your nation from having every major city vanished. I would of course hope that it doesn't come to nuclear war, but if it does.... yah, I've got lots of documentation for the war itself and the aftermath. I guess I just hope I won't have to use it. :)


Might, I suggest that since this RP has gone way to fast and a lot of stuff has been skip over that when all players get active again we start this RP from the beginning and this time with a Moderator.


If everyone else wishes to, we can restart. However, Maldorians still invades, that other African nation still gives support, etc.... all political and military actions happen, just not as quickly. And if others in the RP wish to do this I'll re-post Maldorian's first post (unless he comes back before then) and all can start over with the fun and happiness of a slower-paced and more realistic war.


I also brought up another issue, most of his air power is being projected from the Cape Verde Islands and he has stated the Islands base 300 Lava Fighters. I looked over the terrain of the Cape Verde and it would seem to me that basing 300 fighters there is quite a stretch. Also, he said he's projecting a fleet and it was already there. His nearest Fleet from his military Declaration are in Nigeria and Algeria. Not exactly the closest distance to Senegal without some travel time. If, you could look into those issues I would be most grateful. The travel time is something which is hardly RP, it's always wam bam I'm their. I've done this a few times and been called on it thankfully. This one, I actually calculated the distances from my varies bases to Senegal and the time it would take.


I'll go check out the time, but like I said, his planes cannot be up too long and air control is shaky- any effort to get rid of it will do just that, unless he makes a very serious effort (moving carriers, basing closer, etc) to keep said air power in the air.

Oh, and as for cramming 300 planes onto the island- they can fit and I assume he's made the runways suitable, but that just means the planes are really, really close together. Closer than my airforce would risk putting expensive planes filled with fuel and explosives. Make of that statement what you will. :)

We dont need to restart. nobodys going to fast. Everyones posting at least once a day. We dont need to. And ICBMs can be intercepted. Remeber. I have at least 6 ships that can do interdiction in the area. So if one fails theres a ton more to try.

And ICBMs can me intercepted.
...What? :confused:

I'll go check out the time, but like I said, his planes cannot be up too long and air control is shaky- any effort to get rid of it will do just that, unless he makes a very serious effort (moving carriers, basing closer, etc) to keep said air power in the air.

Oh, and as for cramming 300 planes onto the island- they can fit and I assume he's made the runways suitable, but that just means the planes are really, really close together. Closer than my airforce would risk putting expensive planes filled with fuel and explosives. Make of that statement what you will. :)

That's the problem I ran into. There is hardly any runways. Most of the terrain in the Cape Verde's is mountainous. Not exactly the best terrain for a flat runway. In real life the Cape Verde's doesn't even have a Air Force. I think that says a lot all by it self. There are only 7 working civil airports, I'm not saying he couldn't use those also as Military Bases, I use some Civil Airports also as a Military Airport. But, only a few of those airports would be able to support Fighter Aircraft. So, unless he wants to turn Civil Airports completely into Air Force Bases, he would be hard pressed to establish 300 aircraft at his existing bases. Here is some more information on the transport system of the Cape Verde Islands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_Cape_Verde.

Yeah, I can agree he would be able to cram 300 aircraft onto the islands but, their going to need a runway to take off from and those are not exactly abundant on the islands.

Ok, I'll try to address some of the issues asked by UE:

I also brought up another issue, most of his air power is being projected from the Cape Verde Islands and he has stated the Islands base 300 Lava Fighters. I looked over the terrain of the Cape Verde and it would seem to me that basing 300 fighters there is quite a stretch. Also, he said he's projecting a fleet and it was already there. His nearest Fleet from his military Declaration are in Nigeria and Algeria. Not exactly the closest distance to Senegal without some travel time.

That's the problem I ran into. There is hardly any runways. Most of the terrain in the Cape Verde's is mountainous. Not exactly the best terrain for a flat runway. In real life the Cape Verde's doesn't even have a Air Force. I think that says a lot all by it self. There are only 7 working civil airports

My invasion fleet from Algeria and Nigeria was left at the Cape Verde Islands after the invasion was completed. One Carrier Battle Group left the islands for Equatorial Guinea, while the other one was at Cape Verde Islands all the time. In that way they were very close to Senegal when the disturbances started there.

I'm using the Amilcar Cabral International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amilcar_Cabral_International_Airport) as my military airport, all civil flights was redirected to Francisco Mendes International Airport when the deal was made with the Cape Verde Islands. The runway are capable of handling large Boeing 707's and serves as an emergency landing strips for the U.S. Space Shuttle in RL. Why shouldn't I be able to use it for my Lavi jets?
In fact, almost the complete island of Sal is incorporated in some way or another in my military base on the islands. There are no military installations on the other islands. My invasion of Cape Verde (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=501099).

If you look at wikipedia you'll see that the Island of Sal is very flat, and not mountainous like you said: Sal, Cape Verde (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal%2C_Cape_Verde). Here's a quote: The island is around 30 km long by 12 km wide. It belongs to the northern group of islands, called Barlavento and is one of the three sandy, plane eastern islands (Sal, Boavista and Maio) of the archipelago, with beautiful white sandy beaches and hardly any elevation.

The area of Sal Island is 216 sq km, so there will be a little more than one plane per sq km. How may that be too much?

And the issue with my planes circulating over Senegal. I did mention that the Carrier from Cape Verde was in the waters outside Senegal, so they're able to use the carrier as a base. I didn't say that my air superiority was unbreakable, but at the moment I'm having air superiority.

1. Ok, so most of your Air power is based on this one Island alone?

2. The Lavi Fighter is not designed to operate from a Carrier and I'll assuming that's the Aircraft your using. Please, provide the post on where you made the modifications to said aircraft to allow it to operate from a Aircraft Carrier.

3. Um, what Carriers are you talking about? There are none listed in any of your fact-books. Both, you main nation and your military Declaration I checked. If, you bought some please provide the post.

4. Ok, that's one Airport. It's not going to be able to handle 300 aircraft all by itself. If, you built more good- please provide the post stating where you did that. "The area of Sal Island is 216 sq km, so there will be a little more than one plane per sq km. How may that be too much?" All the planes would be concentrated around the Airport, not spread out all over the Island as you seem to think. Their going to need a runway to take off from and that's the only one in the area. So, their will be 300 aircraft crammed into a 1km area. How may that be too much? Let’s see that’s 1 aircraft for every 0.003333333333333333km. Now lets convert the km area into feet. Which equals 10.936132983 feet. The wingspan of the Lavi was 28.75 feet. I find that information here-http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/ . So your 18 feet over which means less planes to equal the 10 feet. That’s also not factoring in the buildings, runways and other equipment already there or that is going to be there to support the 300 fighters. How may that be to much you ask. Hell, if I know since the realm of understand of the real world no longer applies. Yes, place your 300 fighters there and let’s ignore all sense of realism. Here's a real picture of your airfield as it exist today and from what you'll be working from. It's got no hangers, only a simple terminal and only one major runway that you'll be able to use. (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=k&om=0&z=14&ll=16.735838,-22.942972&spn=0.024576,0.038624) So, be my guest and base 300 fighters at that one airport. They'll be sitting all crammed into one spot and lined up in a row. Boy, I can't wait to destroy your air support in one go. I launch one cluster bomb and that things gone. So, yeah base your 300 fighters there. Oh, please place them there.

1. Ok, so most of your Air power is based on this one Island alone?
Yepp.

2. The Lavi Fighter is not designed to operate from a Carrier and I'll assuming that's the Aircraft your using. Please, provide the post on where you made the modifications to said aircraft to allow it to operate from a Aircraft Carrier.
3. Um, what Carriers are you talking about? There are none listed in any of your fact-books. Both, you main nation and your military Declaration I checked. If, you bought some please provide the post.

Look in Military Command's thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=496917), post 2, 4, 9, 10 and 11. It's all there, both the buying contract and talks about the modifications (well, only the modifications of the carrier for the Lavi jet, but since I'm producing the Lavi jets in Israel it would be really stupid of me to order a carrier modified for Lavi jets, and then don't modify the Lavi itself?).

And yes, they are in both my military declaration and in my factbook. Look at the bottom of my post, under Foreign defense contracts

4. Ok, that's one Airport. It's not going to be able to handle 300 aircraft all by itself.
OK, so how much is the maximum amount of planes for one airport then?

All the planes would be concentrated around the Airport, not spread out all over the Island as you seem to think. Their going to need a runway to take off from and that's the only one in the area. So, their will be 300 aircraft crammed into a 1km area.
I cannot see why there's a limit to a 1 sq km area?

That’s also not factoring in the buildings, runways and other equipment already there or that is going to be there to support the 300 fighters. How may that be to much you ask. Hell, if I know since the realm of understand of the real world no longer applies. Yes, place your 300 fighters there and let’s ignore all sense of realism.
OK, I'm ready to change this if it's totally wrong.

Here's a real picture of your airfield as it exist today and from what you'll be working from. It's got no hangers, only a simple terminal and only one major runway that you'll be able to use. (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=k&om=0&z=14&ll=16.735838,-22.942972&spn=0.024576,0.038624) So, be my guest and base 300 fighters at that one airport. They'll be sitting all crammed into one spot and lined up in a row. Boy, I can't wait to destroy your air support in one go. I launch one cluster bomb and that things gone. So, yeah base your 300 fighters there. Oh, please place them there.

But I've built more hangars and buildings there as there were no military base to start with. In the two latest post in my Cape Verde thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=501099) I'm saying that a new large military base is built at Sal Island. Of course that base is including new hangars and all neccesary buildings to host the airplanes and ships. What was I building otherwise?

But since this seems to be very unrealistic to you, I'm changing the number to 200 planes. Is that OK? I want to play realistic!

In response to post #52

1. Ok, I Find the Carriers. Where are they based? Homeport. That's not listed in your declaration. Please, dig up the post stating where you made those said modifications. And yes, it would of been stupid of you not to modify it. But, hey governments and nations do stupid crap all the time. I'm willing to let that one slide but, in the future do state if you make any changes to your military.

2. Depends on the Airport. Bigger Airport, more planes. Smaller Airport, less planes. As you stated, you built hangers and improved the facilities their. Always a plus. A rough guess, I say on average depending on the base the average Air Force base can maintain and operate around 30-50 aircraft at any one time. The Airport your starting with is very small and could in all likelihood only manage around 10-15 aircraft of various sizes.

3. Ok, a simple easy analog. Go into your bedroom or family room or whatever room you choose in your house. That room is built with such and such sq feet. You have that amount of Sq feet to put your belongs into but, eventfully you'll run out of room to place things. The same applies to the Airport. You have a finite amount of space to use.

4. In the future, you might want to specify which base your building. You don't have to tell me your building such and such buildings. Just, state what type of base. Air Force, Navy or Army.

5. truthfully, I don't how many numbers is realistic. I just found 300 hard to believe. Now, planes vary in size. However, I dug up this. "By December, the "Hawaiian Air Force" had been an integrated command for slightly more than one year and consisted of 754 officers and 6,706 enlisted men, with 233 aircraft assigned at its three primary bases (Hickam, Wheeler Army Airfield, and Bellows Air Force Station)..

Now that was right before the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941. Three major Air Bases and it only had in assigned 233 aircraft. As I said, the average base can maintain and support anywhere from 30-50 aircraft on average.

So, only you decide how long you've been building up that new Air Force Base you converted and what for sure it can support. I've provided you with enough information for you to make a decision that is as close to realistic as possible yet, allow you to maintain a sense of uniqueness.

Ok, you found the occ thread I created good. Second, much better. Yeah, this war really needed a Moderator. Even the issue of the ICBM which I was going to bring up, but never did got addressed. So, now I address the points that have to do with me.



Issue 1- I never said the invasion didn't stand, I just said the invasion is kind of pointless if the person who started it becomes inactive. So, if Maldorians is no longer with us. How does this effect the RP, is what I want to know. If, the invasion never happens then I never would have sent troops. Not, a single one. But, even if he disappears from the Earth V. Does the invasion still count? If, so that would created different circumstances I would have to address and I would of course be reacting different to them.



Issue 2-I agree that I would have to open talks with the Senegalese government. However, that presents a problem. How exactly do I do that when one 1. No one is playing Senegal and 2. have a discussion with the government without being called that I'm God Mod or biased. Because, in both cases they would be right. All I can do is assume (imply) that I had talks with them and that they agreed to let me put forces into their nation to help defend them. Now, why I didn't exactly Role Play having a meeting with the Senegalese Government, something which in hindsight I should have. I did state IC, that I was sending said forces to help support the Senegalese Armed Forces. In, other words I was going to place control of my forces under the Senegalese Government. From my IC post "Our only goal is to maintain the sovereignty of the democratic government of Senegal. We will neither annex, claim or control the nations of Senegal or Guinea.

We ask our fellow nations of this world to support us either through aid, military force or by other means to evict the rogue nation of Guinea from Senegal."

Last I checked, the world covered Senegal, right? Yes, I know that's a generalization; but, given how fast this RP has moved. Way to fast for my taste. It was the best I could manage.



Just a few points, that I think are really important. Missies have something called CEP or Circular Error Probability. ICBM's and the warheads they carry have the greatest CEP of any missile weapon system. So, depending on the type of missile Vineyard launched, which of course he never stated- the odds of the missile (warheads) hitting a moving target like a ship (something they weren't designed for) is highly remote. Here's a link about CEP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_Error_Probable).

My last point, Samtonia your statement about not being able to intercept the missiles and destroy them (blow them up) without suffering a loss of life is wrong. The United States and Western Countries actually have been working on that very problem for the past 10-20 years. They have made some progress. Here is but, a few examples. The SM-2 Family of Missiles (http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/sm2.htm)/The Patriot Missile (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patriot/)/The THAAD (Theatre High Altitude Area Defense) missile system (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/thaad/)/The Medium Extended Air Defense System (MEADS) (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/meads/). There are also many other type of programs in operation or in development. But, yes they are tricky to bring down but, not impossible.



Might, I suggest that since this RP has gone way to fast and a lot of stuff has been skip over that when all players get active again we start this RP from the beginning and this time with a Moderator.



I also brought up another issue, most of his air power is being projected from the Cape Verde Islands and he has stated the Islands base 300 Lava Fighters. I looked over the terrain of the Cape Verde and it would seem to me that basing 300 fighters there is quite a stretch. Also, he said he's projecting a fleet and it was already there. His nearest Fleet from his military Declaration are in Nigeria and Algeria. Not exactly the closest distance to Senegal without some travel time. If, you could look into those issues I would be most grateful. The travel time is something which is hardly RP, it's always wam bam I'm their. I've done this a few times and been called on it thankfully. This one, I actually calculated the distances from my varies bases to Senegal and the time it would take.

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And in closing- Thank you Persecution and Hatred for the translation. That message I actually understood. See how a simple spell check and proof reading of your work can make a difference. I hate to say it, but Proper English matters here. I knew that day would come and I'd have to say that. :headbang: (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11900909&postcount=31)



Im not Illererate Honesly guv'nor:D


Yeah guess I will write particulary long R.Ps on word before hand.... ( a spark of innovation shines in my eyes lol)