NationStates Jolt Archive

This is the OOC thread for the thread "Beiraq launches surprise attack on Icovir". That thread is currently closed, but there are still debates on whether Montegrande and Chellis should be allowed in.

I say that they should be allowed in with small forces (10-15,000 troops), useful for only one major battle and/or defensive missions. BUT, to make it fair, I say that the same should happen with Beiraq. They should have another ally giving them small forces (10-15,000).

Discuss.

I agree...

It is weird that you, Icovir, have support from nations of the UCN... but that´s cool anyway.

lol, I know since just less then one month ago I declared war against you.

what was the reason?

For the war with the UCN? Just wanted to mess around with folks. But then I knew what I was messing with so I surrendered.

Yugoslavia, in addition to selling arms to Beiraq (the L-20 fighter and G-4 attack jets and Ababil-50 MLRS systems currently being used, the Plamen-S MLRS that may be around somewhere, the upgrades given to their T-72s, the Brom anti-ship missiles defending the coasts, and so on), may also be involved in training and repair/maintenance programmes with the Beiraqi military, and Army-General Milan Pupin (a man with a reputation for harsh actions against Kosovo Albanian rebels and ruthless command decisions during the NATO agression) has recently been posted to Lebadad as a liason.

Officially, the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia is neutral in the world generally, but we have specific interests in Beiraq as a major trade partner. Needless to say, the Yugoslavs would not trust Blackhelm as far as we could throw them, but we'd be devestated to see the Beiraqi government fall. That's my reason for taking an interest in the conflict, just so everyone knows why I'm hanging around!

It's not for me to say who's involved, but if Beiraq does want a minor ally with just a few thousand troops, Yugoslavia will send them. I RP with a realistic population of just under 31 million (Bulgaria joined Yugoslavia after the collapse of the USSR), so a couple of brigades would be all I could deploy abroad, anyway.

If not, I'll just watch and try to make sure that Pupin doesn't end up on trial for crimes against this or that :)

And after Icovir surrendered, several of the UCN members have been in good relations with Icovir... They are certain things that cannot be explained, quite frankly.

Sounds fair, but we gotta wait till Beiraq says something before it "passes".

I'm thinking of stepping in, where in the world are we fighting in the Middle East?

I'm thinking of stepping in, where in the world are we fighting in the Middle East?

This war is for who controls the Persian Gulf (Iran and half of Iraq).

Fun time then we shall have as the Clandonian force hits the Gulf.

Dang, I need money. My troop numbers are only 2,000,000 and I need to have this war logistics-wise. Anybody willing to donate to the needy? I'm aiming to increase my troop numbers by at least 5,000 (APPORXIMATE COST: $100,000) so that I can deploy all of my tanks and deploy more troops.

As part of its alliance with Icovir the Scandinvan Empire has decided to provide aide finical, in resource, and in arms. As well, if needed the Empire shall directly intervene in this war and destroy the aggressor for the sake of their ally. So the Emperor went on television before the House of Lords and said,” Citizens of the Empire today a ally of our nation has been attacked by the never ending evil of the Corporate Alliance. Yet, we may not be attacked right now we most not allow them to attack friends and allies of the Empire and this today I and the House of Lords have begun send aide to Icovir and will continue to do so until their enemy is driven out of their lands.”

So now the Empire had sent the first wave of aide in which was 2.1 trillion USD, fifteen million tons of food, 8000 doctors, 12,000 nurses, 6000 Crusader Tanks, 1800 F-18s, 2200 F-16s, two million medium missiles, 6000 artillery pieces, three million M-16s, 200,000 machine guns, 4200 Comanche, and 1800 Black Hawks.Here you go.

Here you go.

TY, I'll post this in the IC thread.

I already have, but you have not replied.

I'm wondering about the geography of the situation, especially as it relates to foreign nations getting in manpower and material aid. I've never been involved in the region except by peace-time trade with Beiraq.

Also... what's this about Gnats!? Folland Gnats? Short range, next to no notable avionics, subsonic, next to no payload glorified kites, with almost no capacity for upgrade due to their tiny airframe?

The Yugoslav jets sold to Beiraq would take down a thousand of them without loss, most likely, and only cost a little bit more per unit.

Ah, another concern, on the Icovir transfer of manpower between branches, and raising of men and more importantly receipt of advanced military equipment: do they actually have anyone who can, for example, fly the F-18s that the Scandinvans just promised to provide?

The Beiraqis bought Yugoslav trainer jets, and were offered training agreements as part of many of the deals between us before the war, but if you grab a man off the street and stick him behind a few million dollars of circuits and rockets, he's more likely to kill himself than the enemy.

Just something to think about!

The Yugoslav jets sold to Beiraq would take down a thousand of them without loss, most likely, and only cost a little bit more per unit.

Which is why I'm glad that I've gotten many F-16s and F-18s donated by the Scandinvans. Also, I think Wanderjar is fighting in the air, also. Not sure what fighters they have.

The Geography of the battle doesn't have much to do with this war. You don't have to worry about people not being able to make it pass [insert geography boundries here] without casualties.
Just remember that your troops can't arrive quickly without vehicles, but that's common sense.

Ah, another concern, on the Icovir transfer of manpower between branches, and raising of men and more importantly receipt of advanced military equipment: do they actually have anyone who can, for example, fly the F-18s that the Scandinvans just promised to provide?

The Beiraqis bought Yugoslav trainer jets, and were offered training agreements as part of many of the deals between us before the war, but if you grab a man off the street and stick him behind a few million dollars of circuits and rockets, he's more likely to kill himself than the enemy.

Just something to think about!

OOC: As long as he has fairly well trained pilots, it shouldn't be too big of a problem. For example, a number of pilots in the battle of france, ww2, had only gotten their D.520's three days before the invasion of france, others had had more time. Yet, they did well against the superior BF-109's and superior pilots. As long as Icovir has decent pilots, and they have some heavy training a few days before going into combat, at the least, they should be able to pick the rest up as they go.

Ah, another concern, on the Icovir transfer of manpower between branches, and raising of men and more importantly receipt of advanced military equipment: do they actually have anyone who can, for example, fly the F-18s that the Scandinvans just promised to provide?

The Beiraqis bought Yugoslav trainer jets, and were offered training agreements as part of many of the deals between us before the war, but if you grab a man off the street and stick him behind a few million dollars of circuits and rockets, he's more likely to kill himself than the enemy.

Just something to think about!


It could be possible that our former fighters were in fact F-18s and F-16s, and that we'll just put veterans in the seat.

OR, Scandinvans could've donated men to fly those fighters of their's.

Currently, I'll have Icovir fund for training programs for new Air Force recruits to be able to fly some F-16/18s.

OOC: As long as he has fairly well trained pilots, it shouldn't be too big of a problem. For example, a number of pilots in the battle of france, ww2, had only gotten their D.520's three days before the invasion of france, others had had more time. Yet, they did well against the superior BF-109's and superior pilots. As long as Icovir has decent pilots, and they have some heavy training a few days before going into combat, at the least, they should be able to pick the rest up as they go.

That's true, too. My pilots piloting the F-16/18s may not be "uber 1337" at flying them like the countries who actually use those for their fighters, but they will still be good.

I'm also thinking about replacing the Gnats for F-16/18s. Too bad the Soviet Storefront doesn't have any deals on air fighters...

I'm wondering about the geography of the situation, especially as it relates to foreign nations getting in manpower and material aid. I've never been involved in the region except by peace-time trade with Beiraq.

Also... what's this about Gnats!? Folland Gnats? Short range, next to no notable avionics, subsonic, next to no payload glorified kites, with almost no capacity for upgrade due to their tiny airframe?

The Yugoslav jets sold to Beiraq would take down a thousand of them without loss, most likely, and only cost a little bit more per unit.

The Folland Gnats are my fault. Blackhelm with the Mafia have modified them to fit modern avionics and to fit two AIM-120 missiles. Blackhelm uses them because they are cheap and can be built without significant investment.

No parts require specialized machine tools. Essentially, with enough time, a high school shop could build one.

I want to try to sell him an upgrade package to make them in Earwigs, which includes a lenghtening, new wing, Soviet-made avionics and such.

The Folland Gnat is being sold at $150,000, so I dispute the little bit more per unit. I'm using a massive surplus I've bought off a '-kingdom' of around 5,000 Gnats, and I'm building one at a 'car factory' using robots. General Resources loaned it to me.

As for the F-4s, I'm buying surplus from Independent Montana, a south east asian country, and building the remainder myself. I try to keep prices down.

If by, "did well" you mean, "got slaughtered" then fair enough, except that flying a piston-engine fighter with machineguns isn't exactly the same as flying at 300% greater velocity and fighting at a few thousand percent greater range. I appreciate your attempt to stand-up for France's under-rated performance in battle, Chellis, but it doesn't really translate well to this situation, does it? If it did, North Korea wouldn't have to worry that none of its pilots had any significant time in the cockpit. Sadly, this isn't the 1940s (or Yugoslavia would be making the most heroic air defence I can think of, with hardly more than three planes taking on the might of the Luftwaffe and doing incredibly well).

All right, I can see the use of super-cheap fighters like that: Yugoslavia's main fighter, also used by Beiraq, is virtually a mini-Rafale (the L-20, formerly known as Novi Avion or Yu-Supersonik) built for half the price. But it means having expendable pilots, too, in other words surely inferior pilots who didn't take much time or money to train (or you wouldn't be so willing to lose them) who will, as such, get their arses handed to them on a silver platter when they come up against pilots trained by Yugoslavia, or any other normally developed nation.

Also, such small planes will always be slow, short-range and, because they have such small nosecones, will have short-range sensors. Beiraq's L-20s will always detect Gnats before the Gnats detect them, and choose whether to kill them or run away. So will those fighting Blackheim, unfortunately!

I don't care what you put on a Gnat, it doesnt' have a chance against a modern fighter. You may as well use a WWI biplane- at least it may escape radar detection because it's made out of linen and string!

Also, such small planes will always be slow, short-range and, because they have such small nosecones, will have short-range sensors. Beiraq's L-20s will always detect Gnats before the Gnats detect them, and choose whether to kill them or run away. So will those fighting Blackheim, unfortunately!

I don't care what you put on a Gnat, it doesnt' have a chance against a modern fighter. You may as well use a WWI biplane- at least it may escape radar detection because it's made out of linen and string!

I understand that. I know it doesn't. I sell it because it is cheap and my clients don't come to 'Universal Exports' to obtain the latest in aircraft technology. They show up for the low prices and the 'black market' aspect.

I've stocked F-4Ss and F-14As in an attempt to give my clients better tech, but I can't stock top of the line stuff.

Osama doesn't need an F-22 with AIM-120s, he needs 32 kilograms of enriched uranium, a cargo ship, 200 kilograms of C-4, 20 AKs, and a sedan.

Oh, I don't blame the seller, just anyone who tries to use it!


("Dirty bombs" don't work- the USSR... and the USA tried to make them work, and they don't. They know that they're lying when they talk about explosives and uranium as a threat. It's just not true.)

Icovir what are you going to do with all the surplus supplies I have sent to your nation?

Icovir, no more F-15s for you.

:)