The first Jedi Order
17-10-2006, 23:55
hello and good day. i used to come here as Nebarri Prime if any of you remember me. well anyway...
i want to start up a star wars RP based as a second story following one i RPed a while back and it was quite fun. this one may have a few changes made to it as some may not like the plot line of the first or may want to use one of the characters killed off...also, so long as they are not over done in power, you may make your own character(if they where of major power they would probably be more noted(making a super powered force user is easily considered a GM). anyway, any questions...just ask
this sort of sums 40 pages of posts into one...
The Dark Lord of the Sith, Darth Sidious, duels fiercely with Jedi Master Mace Windu in the chancellor’s office. Already the other Jedi Masters who came to arrest him have fallen. By the time Anakin enters Sidious is backed against a wall without his lightsaber. Mace and Sidious both attempt to get Anakin to side with them and when Anakin does not side with Sidious, Sidious unleashes an unexpected burst of force lightning into Windu. Though it does not kill Windu he is knocked out for many hours, and Sidious is forced to flee Coruscant. He heads for Had Abbadon, where he is secretly building the Death Star, and while making new plans, prepares to try again at turning Anakin and striking at the Jedi. Sidious still has control over the CIS and the 501st Legion and will use both to their greatest extent if he must....
After the duel, Anakin brings Windu back to the temple. Soon he wakes and a council meeting is called, excluding Anakin. During this time, they begin plans for tracking down Sidious and they begin to elect new council members to replace the ones who have so recently died. During this process they remove Anakin from the council, but they also grant him the rank of Master even though he has been a Knight for only 6 months and has not yet trained a Padawan. After much debate the newly elected council members include Battlemaster Cin Drallig, Pablo-Jill, Aayla Secura, and Luminara Unduli. While the Jedi continue to search for Sidious, others continue fighting battles with the CIS on planets such as Honoghr and Bespin. Meanwhile quick elections are held to replace former chancellor Palpatine, at least until the war's end. After a short while the replacement eventually turns out to be Padme....
Soon, Sidious uses his CIS forces to launch a secret offensive on Tatooine, selected because of its isolation. During the fighting the CIS force blasts past light space forces as well as some unorganized forces in the cities. In the end the CIS leaves taking almost every person from the major cities and nearby farms for use as slaves to construct the Death Star faster, and leaving the rest of them dead, including the crime lord Jabba the Hutt. During this assault Sidious begins his second plan, one that has three goals: hurt the Jedi, hurt the Senate, and draw Anakin to Sidious so he may turn him to the Dark side....
Meanwhile, Quinlan Vos encounters the Jedi Hunter and Dark Jedi Aurra Sing. In the duel that follows Quinlan is wounded lightly but he manages with the help of clone troopers to force Sing to flee, at which point Sing seeks out Sidious so that she may be better trained to fight the Jedi....
By the time she finds Sidious, he has launched a strike against the Jedi and the Republic, sending the 501st legion to infiltrate the Jedi Temple and Senate. Through a clever ploy the Clones manage to kill many Jedi and most Senators. Help soon arrives in the form of the returning Quinlan Vos and his clone army. Though the clones force the 501st to flee and kill almost half of them, the 501st have already done their damage and escaped with Padme as their prisoner. Anakin, sensing her aboard their ship, gives chase, managing to attach his fighter to the Star Destroyer’s hull. After the Star Destroyer arrives at its destination Anakin sends a message to the Jedi Council with info about the Death Star and its location. While waiting for the Jedi to arrive, he attempts to save Padme. Anakin manages to reach Padme quickly but it is already too late. Sidious has had her poisoned and there is no antidote available. Padme will die in less than half an hour....
By this time Aurra Sing has long been in the presence of Sidious and is given a task. Sidious's many attempts to turn Anakin to the Dark Side through force-based communication have failed, and he now wants the Jedi (and Padme, since she is not dead yet) eliminated. Sing and Anakin soon meet, accompanied by Padme and the clone troopers that Sing has brought with her. Anakin quickly kills the clones, but this is all the time Sing needs to kill Padme, and in a mindless rage at her death Anakin attacks Sing, killing her in one swipe.
By this time the Jedi have gathered a massive force of several hundred Jedi and their commands, who are sent to fight in what will become known as the Battle of Abbadon. On Sidious’s side, he has began calling in CIS forces for the defense of the unfinished Death Star. During the battle many CIS ships drop out of hyperspace in the middle of combat zones, destroying them and what they impact instantly. At the same time the Death Star’s Superlaser is operational, and though the station can't move it can still fire inside the Superlaser’s arc, and it does. Its first target is the Star Destroyer that Anakin is on. In the destruction of the ship all aboard it, including Anakin, are killed. The battle bit by bit turns against the CIS and Sidious, but still Sidious manages to flee along with as many as 2,000 Clone troopers under his command. 100+ Jedi board the Death Star and manage to overload it from the inside, but are trapped in the process and all are killed - including Quinlan Vos, Pablo-Jill, and Stass Allie. However by this time the CIS fleet is destroyed, forcing their surrender. The terms are light and the CIS is allowed to survive, but its military power is diminished and it now must pay for a large sum of damage to the Republic….
and now for the plot line for the current idea i have...
The year is 14 BBY
after Darth Sidious’s defeat in the Battle of Abbadon five years ago he has fled into hiding. While moving around in his hiding he found the Dark Jedi and leader of the Dark Force, the fallen Jedi Knight Kadann. Kadann who has foreseen a chance to destroy the Jedi Order and tells Sidious, whom happens to be in Kadann’s vision.
Following the vision Sidious allies himself with the Mandalorian leader Spar, giving him a chance to strike the Jedi back for all they have done to the Mandalorians.
Meanwhile Kadann heads to the planet Dathomir to meet Gethzerion, leader of the Nightsisters. Making a deal with her (she helps Sidious get rid of the Jedi and he takes her of the planet). Gethzerion accepts and the Nightsisters leave Dathomir to join Sidious and Kadann. Sidious then heads out to retrieve the Banished Chiss Thrawn. After taking the Nightsisters off Dathomir Kadann headed out to Nam Chorios speaks to the Dark Jedi Beldorian and Taselda and convinces them to join the newly named “Dark League”. Many other Dark Jedi are accepted into the League, and many Jedi at the edge are turned. Sidious now has a sizable number of Dark Jedi, thousands of Mandalorians, some newly recruited, others extensively experienced. Sidious also still commands about 20% of what used to be the 501st legion. While the 501st still supplies a fair amount of shuttle and fighter craft and the Mandalorian’s have a few good sized capital ships and many shuttles but they need more ships. So to gain a sizable fleet for this army they frighten, steal, manipulate, and buy what they can from the Confederacy of Independent Systems, the Hapes Consortium and Ssi-Ruuk. Now, Sidious, armed with an army of Dark Jedi, Elite Troops, and a tactical mastermind for an Admiral as well as a good sized fleet he is a true threat to both the CIS and the Republic….
Mean while…
during the later months of the Clone wars Sidious used his powers as chancellor to set up several regional governors. After the war with the Confederacy ended the Republic was weak. for it had just been through a 3 year war and Sidious had recently launched a massive attack on the Republic senate. With most of the senate gone the Republic needed the stability provided by the Jedi and the Moffs. once the Senate regained order they decided to dissolve the Moffs power, as they where made by the very man whom attempted to destroy the Republic when he could no longer control it. Most Moffs stepped down, but some resisted and launched several offences against the Senate controlled Republic. Starting an entirely new civil war between Moff and Senate controlled Republic forces. Fighting for years the Moffs where slowly pushed back, without the loyalty and support of the clone army or the Jedi they could not hold on, as they needed to pull in conscripts from there controlled space, many unwilling and most rushed into service, as opposed to the Senates well trained and skilled Clone army. Thus by 14 BBY only a few Moffs remained trying to hold on to the last bits of power they have, possibly desperate enough to ally with criminal organizations or worse, the Dark League…
on the other hand the Jedi have continued their jobs as peacekeepers. Fighting against the Moffs and searching for Sidious and confirmation about the rumors of this “Dark League"
Unclaimed character List
Jedi
Council Members: Ki-Adi-Mundi, Plo Koon, Shaak Ti, Luminara Unduli, Coleman Kcaj, Cin Drallig, Tholme, Tsui Choi
Knights/Masters: An'ya Kuro, Jocasta Nu, Barriss Offee, Bultar Swan, Bant Eerin, Joclad Danva, A'sharad Hett, Jastus Farr, Koffi Arana, Darrin Arkanian, Ood Bnar, Empatojayos Brand, Olana Chion, Sha Koon, Ma'Kis'Shaalas, Ali-Alann, Shadday Potkin, Qu Rahn, T'ra Saa, Roblio Darte, Sia-Lan Wezz, Dass Jennir, Simms, Kai Hudorra, Zao, Jeisel
Kights/Padawans(possibly a Knight or older Padawan): Pix, Noirah Na, Whie Malreaux, Ekria, Zonder, Drake Lo'gaan
Padawans: Zett Jukassa, Mari Amithest
Padawan/Younglings: Ashla, J.K. Burtola, Liam, Jempa, Chian, Banz, Allara, Bobby, Lagan Ismaren, Roganda Ismaren
Younglings: Korto Vos, Mara Jade, Yun, Corran Halcyon(aka Corran Horn), Kyle Katarn
Republic
Chancellor: Bail Organa
Senators: Ask Aak, Garm Bel Iblis, Mon Mothma, Orn Free Taa, Nee Alavar, Fema Baab, Bana Breemu, Giddean Danu, Chi Eekway, Eeusu Estornii, Male-Dee, Silya Shessaun, Terr Taneel, Meena Tills, Yarua, Fang Zar, Mas Amedda
Admirals: Barrow Oicunn, Hiram Drayson, Jan Dodonna
Generals: Carlist Rieekan
Captains: Lorth Needa
Clone Commanders: Davijaan, Bly, Thire, Gree, Deviss, Bacara, Faie, Jag(?)
Other Important peoples(may only be connected with Republic, but not part): Taun We, Chewbacca, Tarfful, Armand Isard
CIS
Political Leaders: Nute Gunray, Rune Haako, Rute Gunnay, Wat Tambor, Shu Mai, Cat Miin, San Hill, Passel Argente, Denaria Kee, Po Nudo, Poggle the Lesser
Military Leaders: Admiral(or still Captain?) Lushros Dofine, Commander Horgo Shive
Dark League
Dark Jedi/Sith/Nightsisters: Jedgar, Boc Aseca, Cronal, Arden Lyn, Gethzerion, Baritha, Ocheron, Shabell, Asajj Ventress, Beldorian, Taselda, Jerec, Ameesa Darys, and Maw
Mandalorians: Spar, Fenn Shysa, Tobbi Dala, Boba Fett, Rav Bralor, Cort Davin, Kal Skirata, Walon Vau
Admirals:
501st Clones: Sergeant Fox, Bow
Null ARCs: A'den, Prudii, Kom'rk, Mereel, Jaing, Ordo
United Moff Alliance
Moffs: Denn Wessex, Marcellin Wessel, Trachta, Jerrod Maclain, Fliry Vorru
Fleet Officers: Kendal Ozzel, Firmus Piett,
Army Officers: Maximilian Veers, Cassio Tagge,
Other: Jerjerrod
Other
Crime Lords/Pirates/etc: Big Jak Targrim, Vilmarh Grahrk, Khaleen Hentz
Besadii Hutts: Durga, Aruk, Zawal, Kibbick, Zier
Desilijic Hutts: Jocoro, Tagta, Jiliac, Pazda, Zorba, Gorya
Other Hutts: Gargonn, Ingoda, Borvo, Shala, Mageye, Gheeta
Bounty Hunters: Cradossk, Bossk, Dannik Jerriko, Sintas Vel, Kalyn Farnmir, Saje Tasha, Akku Seii
Other Government leaders: Ta'a Chume, Shreeftut
Claims List
Aayla Secura(The first Jedi Order)
Commander Cody(Maldorians)
Shrik Medrap(custom character by Vimpiria)
Commander Appo(Wanderjar)
Kyle Avondale(custom character by Dweladelfia prime)
Prince Xizor(Ravea)
Mace Windu(Amazonian Beasts)
Commander Neyo(Amazonian Beasts)
Bene(Dweladelfia prime)
General Grievous(Akkania)
Yoda(DMG)
Titan Vice(DMG)
Darth Sidious(Unified Sith)
Serra Keto(Colerica)
Teren Verus(custom character by Tarda)
Obi-Wan Kenobi(Canadstein)
Gilad Pellaeon(Canadstein)
Wilhuff Tarkin(Walstatia)
Kadaan(Walstatia)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11839208#post11839208
i want to start up a star wars RP based as a second story following one i RPed a while back and it was quite fun. this one may have a few changes made to it as some may not like the plot line of the first or may want to use one of the characters killed off...also, so long as they are not over done in power, you may make your own character(if they where of major power they would probably be more noted(making a super powered force user is easily considered a GM). anyway, any questions...just ask
this sort of sums 40 pages of posts into one...
The Dark Lord of the Sith, Darth Sidious, duels fiercely with Jedi Master Mace Windu in the chancellor’s office. Already the other Jedi Masters who came to arrest him have fallen. By the time Anakin enters Sidious is backed against a wall without his lightsaber. Mace and Sidious both attempt to get Anakin to side with them and when Anakin does not side with Sidious, Sidious unleashes an unexpected burst of force lightning into Windu. Though it does not kill Windu he is knocked out for many hours, and Sidious is forced to flee Coruscant. He heads for Had Abbadon, where he is secretly building the Death Star, and while making new plans, prepares to try again at turning Anakin and striking at the Jedi. Sidious still has control over the CIS and the 501st Legion and will use both to their greatest extent if he must....
After the duel, Anakin brings Windu back to the temple. Soon he wakes and a council meeting is called, excluding Anakin. During this time, they begin plans for tracking down Sidious and they begin to elect new council members to replace the ones who have so recently died. During this process they remove Anakin from the council, but they also grant him the rank of Master even though he has been a Knight for only 6 months and has not yet trained a Padawan. After much debate the newly elected council members include Battlemaster Cin Drallig, Pablo-Jill, Aayla Secura, and Luminara Unduli. While the Jedi continue to search for Sidious, others continue fighting battles with the CIS on planets such as Honoghr and Bespin. Meanwhile quick elections are held to replace former chancellor Palpatine, at least until the war's end. After a short while the replacement eventually turns out to be Padme....
Soon, Sidious uses his CIS forces to launch a secret offensive on Tatooine, selected because of its isolation. During the fighting the CIS force blasts past light space forces as well as some unorganized forces in the cities. In the end the CIS leaves taking almost every person from the major cities and nearby farms for use as slaves to construct the Death Star faster, and leaving the rest of them dead, including the crime lord Jabba the Hutt. During this assault Sidious begins his second plan, one that has three goals: hurt the Jedi, hurt the Senate, and draw Anakin to Sidious so he may turn him to the Dark side....
Meanwhile, Quinlan Vos encounters the Jedi Hunter and Dark Jedi Aurra Sing. In the duel that follows Quinlan is wounded lightly but he manages with the help of clone troopers to force Sing to flee, at which point Sing seeks out Sidious so that she may be better trained to fight the Jedi....
By the time she finds Sidious, he has launched a strike against the Jedi and the Republic, sending the 501st legion to infiltrate the Jedi Temple and Senate. Through a clever ploy the Clones manage to kill many Jedi and most Senators. Help soon arrives in the form of the returning Quinlan Vos and his clone army. Though the clones force the 501st to flee and kill almost half of them, the 501st have already done their damage and escaped with Padme as their prisoner. Anakin, sensing her aboard their ship, gives chase, managing to attach his fighter to the Star Destroyer’s hull. After the Star Destroyer arrives at its destination Anakin sends a message to the Jedi Council with info about the Death Star and its location. While waiting for the Jedi to arrive, he attempts to save Padme. Anakin manages to reach Padme quickly but it is already too late. Sidious has had her poisoned and there is no antidote available. Padme will die in less than half an hour....
By this time Aurra Sing has long been in the presence of Sidious and is given a task. Sidious's many attempts to turn Anakin to the Dark Side through force-based communication have failed, and he now wants the Jedi (and Padme, since she is not dead yet) eliminated. Sing and Anakin soon meet, accompanied by Padme and the clone troopers that Sing has brought with her. Anakin quickly kills the clones, but this is all the time Sing needs to kill Padme, and in a mindless rage at her death Anakin attacks Sing, killing her in one swipe.
By this time the Jedi have gathered a massive force of several hundred Jedi and their commands, who are sent to fight in what will become known as the Battle of Abbadon. On Sidious’s side, he has began calling in CIS forces for the defense of the unfinished Death Star. During the battle many CIS ships drop out of hyperspace in the middle of combat zones, destroying them and what they impact instantly. At the same time the Death Star’s Superlaser is operational, and though the station can't move it can still fire inside the Superlaser’s arc, and it does. Its first target is the Star Destroyer that Anakin is on. In the destruction of the ship all aboard it, including Anakin, are killed. The battle bit by bit turns against the CIS and Sidious, but still Sidious manages to flee along with as many as 2,000 Clone troopers under his command. 100+ Jedi board the Death Star and manage to overload it from the inside, but are trapped in the process and all are killed - including Quinlan Vos, Pablo-Jill, and Stass Allie. However by this time the CIS fleet is destroyed, forcing their surrender. The terms are light and the CIS is allowed to survive, but its military power is diminished and it now must pay for a large sum of damage to the Republic….
and now for the plot line for the current idea i have...
The year is 14 BBY
after Darth Sidious’s defeat in the Battle of Abbadon five years ago he has fled into hiding. While moving around in his hiding he found the Dark Jedi and leader of the Dark Force, the fallen Jedi Knight Kadann. Kadann who has foreseen a chance to destroy the Jedi Order and tells Sidious, whom happens to be in Kadann’s vision.
Following the vision Sidious allies himself with the Mandalorian leader Spar, giving him a chance to strike the Jedi back for all they have done to the Mandalorians.
Meanwhile Kadann heads to the planet Dathomir to meet Gethzerion, leader of the Nightsisters. Making a deal with her (she helps Sidious get rid of the Jedi and he takes her of the planet). Gethzerion accepts and the Nightsisters leave Dathomir to join Sidious and Kadann. Sidious then heads out to retrieve the Banished Chiss Thrawn. After taking the Nightsisters off Dathomir Kadann headed out to Nam Chorios speaks to the Dark Jedi Beldorian and Taselda and convinces them to join the newly named “Dark League”. Many other Dark Jedi are accepted into the League, and many Jedi at the edge are turned. Sidious now has a sizable number of Dark Jedi, thousands of Mandalorians, some newly recruited, others extensively experienced. Sidious also still commands about 20% of what used to be the 501st legion. While the 501st still supplies a fair amount of shuttle and fighter craft and the Mandalorian’s have a few good sized capital ships and many shuttles but they need more ships. So to gain a sizable fleet for this army they frighten, steal, manipulate, and buy what they can from the Confederacy of Independent Systems, the Hapes Consortium and Ssi-Ruuk. Now, Sidious, armed with an army of Dark Jedi, Elite Troops, and a tactical mastermind for an Admiral as well as a good sized fleet he is a true threat to both the CIS and the Republic….
Mean while…
during the later months of the Clone wars Sidious used his powers as chancellor to set up several regional governors. After the war with the Confederacy ended the Republic was weak. for it had just been through a 3 year war and Sidious had recently launched a massive attack on the Republic senate. With most of the senate gone the Republic needed the stability provided by the Jedi and the Moffs. once the Senate regained order they decided to dissolve the Moffs power, as they where made by the very man whom attempted to destroy the Republic when he could no longer control it. Most Moffs stepped down, but some resisted and launched several offences against the Senate controlled Republic. Starting an entirely new civil war between Moff and Senate controlled Republic forces. Fighting for years the Moffs where slowly pushed back, without the loyalty and support of the clone army or the Jedi they could not hold on, as they needed to pull in conscripts from there controlled space, many unwilling and most rushed into service, as opposed to the Senates well trained and skilled Clone army. Thus by 14 BBY only a few Moffs remained trying to hold on to the last bits of power they have, possibly desperate enough to ally with criminal organizations or worse, the Dark League…
on the other hand the Jedi have continued their jobs as peacekeepers. Fighting against the Moffs and searching for Sidious and confirmation about the rumors of this “Dark League"
Unclaimed character List
Jedi
Council Members: Ki-Adi-Mundi, Plo Koon, Shaak Ti, Luminara Unduli, Coleman Kcaj, Cin Drallig, Tholme, Tsui Choi
Knights/Masters: An'ya Kuro, Jocasta Nu, Barriss Offee, Bultar Swan, Bant Eerin, Joclad Danva, A'sharad Hett, Jastus Farr, Koffi Arana, Darrin Arkanian, Ood Bnar, Empatojayos Brand, Olana Chion, Sha Koon, Ma'Kis'Shaalas, Ali-Alann, Shadday Potkin, Qu Rahn, T'ra Saa, Roblio Darte, Sia-Lan Wezz, Dass Jennir, Simms, Kai Hudorra, Zao, Jeisel
Kights/Padawans(possibly a Knight or older Padawan): Pix, Noirah Na, Whie Malreaux, Ekria, Zonder, Drake Lo'gaan
Padawans: Zett Jukassa, Mari Amithest
Padawan/Younglings: Ashla, J.K. Burtola, Liam, Jempa, Chian, Banz, Allara, Bobby, Lagan Ismaren, Roganda Ismaren
Younglings: Korto Vos, Mara Jade, Yun, Corran Halcyon(aka Corran Horn), Kyle Katarn
Republic
Chancellor: Bail Organa
Senators: Ask Aak, Garm Bel Iblis, Mon Mothma, Orn Free Taa, Nee Alavar, Fema Baab, Bana Breemu, Giddean Danu, Chi Eekway, Eeusu Estornii, Male-Dee, Silya Shessaun, Terr Taneel, Meena Tills, Yarua, Fang Zar, Mas Amedda
Admirals: Barrow Oicunn, Hiram Drayson, Jan Dodonna
Generals: Carlist Rieekan
Captains: Lorth Needa
Clone Commanders: Davijaan, Bly, Thire, Gree, Deviss, Bacara, Faie, Jag(?)
Other Important peoples(may only be connected with Republic, but not part): Taun We, Chewbacca, Tarfful, Armand Isard
CIS
Political Leaders: Nute Gunray, Rune Haako, Rute Gunnay, Wat Tambor, Shu Mai, Cat Miin, San Hill, Passel Argente, Denaria Kee, Po Nudo, Poggle the Lesser
Military Leaders: Admiral(or still Captain?) Lushros Dofine, Commander Horgo Shive
Dark League
Dark Jedi/Sith/Nightsisters: Jedgar, Boc Aseca, Cronal, Arden Lyn, Gethzerion, Baritha, Ocheron, Shabell, Asajj Ventress, Beldorian, Taselda, Jerec, Ameesa Darys, and Maw
Mandalorians: Spar, Fenn Shysa, Tobbi Dala, Boba Fett, Rav Bralor, Cort Davin, Kal Skirata, Walon Vau
Admirals:
501st Clones: Sergeant Fox, Bow
Null ARCs: A'den, Prudii, Kom'rk, Mereel, Jaing, Ordo
United Moff Alliance
Moffs: Denn Wessex, Marcellin Wessel, Trachta, Jerrod Maclain, Fliry Vorru
Fleet Officers: Kendal Ozzel, Firmus Piett,
Army Officers: Maximilian Veers, Cassio Tagge,
Other: Jerjerrod
Other
Crime Lords/Pirates/etc: Big Jak Targrim, Vilmarh Grahrk, Khaleen Hentz
Besadii Hutts: Durga, Aruk, Zawal, Kibbick, Zier
Desilijic Hutts: Jocoro, Tagta, Jiliac, Pazda, Zorba, Gorya
Other Hutts: Gargonn, Ingoda, Borvo, Shala, Mageye, Gheeta
Bounty Hunters: Cradossk, Bossk, Dannik Jerriko, Sintas Vel, Kalyn Farnmir, Saje Tasha, Akku Seii
Other Government leaders: Ta'a Chume, Shreeftut
Claims List
Aayla Secura(The first Jedi Order)
Commander Cody(Maldorians)
Shrik Medrap(custom character by Vimpiria)
Commander Appo(Wanderjar)
Kyle Avondale(custom character by Dweladelfia prime)
Prince Xizor(Ravea)
Mace Windu(Amazonian Beasts)
Commander Neyo(Amazonian Beasts)
Bene(Dweladelfia prime)
General Grievous(Akkania)
Yoda(DMG)
Titan Vice(DMG)
Darth Sidious(Unified Sith)
Serra Keto(Colerica)
Teren Verus(custom character by Tarda)
Obi-Wan Kenobi(Canadstein)
Gilad Pellaeon(Canadstein)
Wilhuff Tarkin(Walstatia)
Kadaan(Walstatia)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11839208#post11839208