NationStates Jolt Archive

referencing this post...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11779033&postcount=777

[quote]SIC to Sharina:

We will make certain that his arrival is under tight scrutiny. Additionally, any other precautions taken to guard the security of this meeting will be taken. Expect his arrival within the year. [ooc: I will post a new thread; where should he be going?]/quote]

Foreign Minister Muhammad Ibn-Abd al-Qadir left Al Qahirah on the long trip to Sharina territory, where he would meet esteemed representatives from their government. En route, he pondered the best way to broach the topics nicely and moreover assertively. No doubt, the Emirate didn't want to interfere, but the Emirate also didn't want a war, especially if it involved an ally. There was much more to lose in having a war than not, so the mission to diffuse the crisis before it escalated to a greater extent, but he wasn't certain if it was too late to do so.

bumping for Sharina...

OOC: Tagged. I will respond when I have time later tonight.

[ooc: Considering that a lot of the spice surrounding America has somewhat dissipated, do you still want to have a conference? Because we can talk about other things...and if we do, I'd have much to talk about, although it wouldn't be necessary to have a conference to propogate those discussions...]

[ooc: Considering that a lot of the spice surrounding America has somewhat dissipated, do you still want to have a conference? Because we can talk about other things...and if we do, I'd have much to talk about, although it wouldn't be necessary to have a conference to propogate those discussions...]

OOC:

As I just posted in the Earth V thread, I'm finally finished with upgrading to Comcast and Cable, so I should be able to post more frequently.

I'm still interested in this conference, but I need to know what is happening first like if GR and Dweladefina made their moves yet or not, or whatever they are up to.

OOC:

As I just posted in the Earth V thread, I'm finally finished with upgrading to Comcast and Cable, so I should be able to post more frequently.

I'm still interested in this conference, but I need to know what is happening first like if GR and Dweladefina made their moves yet or not, or whatever they are up to.

[ooc: owing to the developments in the time since this conference was first conceived [the spice is starting to heat up...], we now see a reason to meet with Sharina - for reasons including the recent collapse of the Brazilian Empire. So are you still willing to open the door? If so, where and when?]

[ooc: owing to the developments in the time since this conference was first conceived [the spice is starting to heat up...], we now see a reason to meet with Sharina - for reasons including the recent collapse of the Brazilian Empire. So are you still willing to open the door? If so, where and when?]

OOC:

Probably a good place would be in NYC in the former UN building (current RL UN building) as I use that building to host conferences, diplomacy, international parties, etc.

You can start anytime you want (assume all the diplomats have arrived, and I'll be using my diplomat, Rudolph Giuliani.) considering you have had some internet problems recently.

Foreign Minister Muhammad Ibn-Abd al-Qadir arrived in NYC, and in the midst of Sharinan escorts, arrived at the large international building that once served as the UN HQ in the city. There, the Honorable Rudolph Guiliani greeted them, mostly as a spectacle for the public and the press. They then entered the building to a secure location and the two men and their delegations chatted in the reception area of things that were personal [not too personal, you sick and twisted minds!] for a couple of minutes. al-Qadir found the break a little convenient after having sat on a plane for over 16 hours - and the conversation was a good cue to the personable and amiable character of Guiliani. When the reception was over, the two sides joined in the meeting room where Guiliani began the official discussion, which herein reside:

The Sharinan diplomat, Rudolph Guiliani, smiled at Muhammad Ibn-Abd al-Qadir as the two men sat down at the conference room. Rudolph took out a laptop and began booting it up.

He glances over to Muhammad and made a witty remark. "This certainly does save quite a few trees, with paperwork gone digital."

Rudolph nodded at the laptop and then looked back up at Muhammad.

"Shall we get down to business? Your government asked for the conference, so please do share what's on your mind."

Abd al-Qadir nodded and began promptly:

"Well, it has been part of our acknowledgment that some recent events involving the American continent nearly pushed the world to some grand conflict - something that the Emirate strives in earnest to avoid and prevent. The conflict, while now more distantly unlikely, remains in sight and we wish to conclude some details that might lead to a more secure peace and more agreeable solution. The recent collapse of the Brazilian Empire is certainly one to cause alarm, as it makes one uncooperative state several more. Furthermore, some of the tensions resulting from these confrontations have led - by coincidence perhaps - to more aggressive policies and confrontations elsewhere, notably closer to our home in the Emirate. The involvement of the former Kingdom of Iberian Netherlands in both the Americas and in Africa was something worth alarm, and seeing as the situation never seems to unravel to a conclusion, we are concerned that one unruly turn might be the one trigger that lets loose a mad war.

"We have no intention to challenge the policies of the Sharina Technocracy, or to modify our own policies. But instead, we are hoping that inn our discussions, we can come to some agreement about how best to make a resolution in this situation and thus reflect how we can mutually make the necessary action to effect these changes, both among ourselves and among those states and peoples who are involved in these situations.

"If we can get these details resolved, we can perhaps make a good discussion on the future of the RSA and FOAM, seeing as our two alliances intersect at numerous points - albeit some very contentious points also exist. In any case, the Emirate feels that some cooperation between our two venerable organizations ought to be established or otherwise run the risk of having two powerful alliances frequently confronting and conflicting over even the most frivolous matters. [ooc: speaking of FOAM, where's Warta Endor?] We don't feel that this is particularly important, as our two organizations have already showed some degree of cooperation necessary for mutual coexistence, although we would love to see how we can both make effort improve relations nonetheless.

"On our final point - although not as necessary or even as extensive - the Emirate wishes to remind the Sharina Technocracy that as a disconnected state with no real interest to gain or lose from the incidents in the Americas, we are willing to participate as a moderator of discourses between those parties involved in the incidents. If any need should ever arise between your government and those governments in conflict with your interests, we feel that share enough common ground with both sides to share no effective bias in resolving the matter and likewise, we feel that we can offer to bring a peaceful solution moderating between the two sides.

"We have other details to iron out - notably those that are customarily affixed to my position as Foreign Minister, such as cultural exchanges, diplomatic engagements, and even perhaps future trade and political agreements - if it so should please the Sharina Technocracy. However, owing to our dire interest to maintain peace and common balance, we can leave these issues for more conventional discourses between our embassy staff. As such, we hope that we can begin this conference with a solid foot and determined purpose."

Rudolph listened carefully to Abd al-Qadir, taking notes and inputting the information into the laptop. When Abd al-Qadir finished speaking, Rudolph aded a few bits of information into the laptop before responding.

"Thank you for your outline. Allow me to establish where Sharina stands on these issues.

First, Sharina does look with quite some alarm upon the what seems like expasionistic policies of the Iberian Netherlands. Intelligence sources indicate that the Iberian Netherlands plans on annexing even more land in South America, and that is something that will have disastrous consquences. Allow me to explain.

If the Iberians are to be allowed to do this, then when the Iberians get involved in a war in Europe, Africa, or Asia, it will be inevitable that the Americas will be drawn into that war. Powers in Europe, Africa, or Asia may seek to strike at Iberian holdings in the Americas. Then the global war you fear will actually occur, and spread to the Americas.

It is Sharina's goal to make the Americas a safe and secure area, free of European neo-colonialism. Thus, wars and conflicts in Europe will not carry over into the Americas. I'm not saying or implying that Sharina wishes to cut itself or the Americas off from the rest of the world. Far from it, actually. We do want to maintain trade, exchanges, and such with Europe, Africa, and Asia. However, European political and territorial control in / of the Americas will only lead to trouble. There is a reason why Europeans could not hold onto the Americas the first time around.

We need to discuss this foremost before we move onto the other issues, yes?"

"Well, if we're decided, let's stop wasting our time trying to decide what to talk about and get straight to it." Abd Al Qadir gave a nice breath, to relieve himself as he began a new discourse.

"It is the official policy of the Emirate neither to estrange our friends and allies nor to cause tensions among those states. We are here in the interest to relieve the tensions, and seeing it as a complicated situation, I hope to best explain our circumstance in order to better explain our ideas and possible solutions. Recognizing your sovereignty and mandates to protect the interests of the Americas, we have little qualm with the advances of the Iberians or whatever government has turned to at the moment. However, we realize that this situation is not exactly the most optimal, considering the presence of the Sharina mandates, in which any armed aggression upon those territories within America would constitute an attack upon Sharinan interests, and thus a war upon those states. Therefore, the progression of the Iberians in America would constitute a war a with Sharina, two friendlies states we consider to be vital neighbors in maintain the balance of peace in the world.

"We cannot in our right urge the Sharina Technocracy to drop their mandates, as we believe in similar mandates ourselves, as was evidenced in the Iberian's own attacks upon the states in Africa. We are certain that the Iberians share this sentiment, as was evidenced in their attempts to resolve the Senegal issue. Therefore, to ask the Technocracy to drop its mandates wouldd be hypocritical and furthermore detrimental to the sustenance of peace in your respective sphere, which cannot be a positive step in our own interests globally. Nonetheless, we must maintain that the Iberians do have a right to maintain their own interests - however we may be opposed to them. As such, in this time, we feel that a mutual discussion would be worthwhile, to see where our interests conflict and how best to resolve them. On the one hand, Sharina's right to preserve and indeed guard the interests of the Americas is one side; the opposite is the Iberian's right to preserve and guard their interests. Obviously, there is some common ground between the two, as it cannot be the official interest of either country to reject the complete existence of either [at least we hope so].

"We are wondering, given these premises, if the Sharina Technocracy can see a possible resolution or compromise at the moment."

OCC: Sorry to barge in, I was just wondering if this meeting was pubic (as in this is an official state visit) or private (as in this meeting is being held in the upper most secrecy)? If it is taking place in quiet, then what I'm reading I won't be able to use one bit of what is being discussed here IC. If, it is a public meeting, then well that's different.

Also, for the record- I killed the Iberian Netherlands. No, more-gone-caput-dead as a door knob. I called it the Republic of United Nations for some reason- it's composed of many nations, not just one. When you refer to the Iberians, I'm assuming you mean the Kingdom of Iberia, which you would be correct in referring to them as that- as they are the ones who sent troops into those four South American countries on that Peacekeeping mission. Their's also four other members, with more joining officially once their application is worked out.

Again, sorry for butting in. I'm enjoying the RP and keep up the good meeting.

Rudolph nodded, admiring the no-nonsense attitude of Abd Al Qadir, a rarity in the world of trickery, word twisting, and half truths.

"I understand and appreciate what you are trying to express.

Sharina does have several concerns with the Republic of United Nations (RUN), as it is a potential destabilizing factor.

Our first concern is that should the Republic get involved in a war, then its holdings in the Americas would be obligated to help the European and African portions of the Republic. Consquently, the war could spread over into Africa and the Americas, which would not be in the best interests of the Emirate and Sharina, respectively. When we have enemy aircraft, vessels, tanks, and wepons flying about in our backyards, we have no choice but to put a stop to that. That will force us into war with the belligerents, cascading into a global war.

Our second concern is that the Europeans could not hold onto land in the Americas. Their colonialism failed back then, and it will fail again this time. Even though there is better communication in our world of computers, cables, satellites, television, and radio, the cultures of the nations in South America are quite different from the nations in Europe and Africa. With over 200 years of divergent history since the 1800's, it is a certainty that the Americans do not want to rejoin their ex-oppressors. It would be similiar to the former United States of America deciding to become a province of Great Britain once again. With all that said, Sharina believes that revolution and discontent is inevitable in the American holdings of the RUN, which will lead to destability in the Americas, bringing us back to square one.

Our third concern is that with the collapse of the Brazilian Empire, the RUN has already embarked on an expansionistic phase in South America. It has already apparently annexed Argentina, and intelligence sources indicate it may possibly attempt to annex Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia, Chile, and even the Caribbean Sea. This expansionism will only make issues one and two, previously stated, worse than they already are. More people to rebel and revolt. More major cities, economic centers, and historical sites that will have destruction visited upon them by a possible war the RUN is involved in.

It is Sharina's dream to create a safe haven in the Americas, and a stable America where European politics and wars will not cause harm and destruction in the Americas. The RUN is threatening that stability with the looming scepter of revolution, rebellion, and possible warfare in South America. Already several nations have been attempting to curtail the RUN in South America such as Brinkman's Isle and Vineyard, and more may even join in such as the new Brazilian faction of Braska or the Confederate States of America. If the RUN did not annex or control these nations, then these power-grabs, interference, and threats would most likely not occur. This is due to the fact that Sharina has never involved itself outside of the Americas post-UFSR era*, and thus European affairs or hostilities such as the RUN-Vineyard hostilities would not impact Sharina and the nations it would be protecting. The fact that Sharina also has a sizable military and significant natural resources will also deter possible invaders and neo-colonialists in South America as well. Sharina is interested in keeping the Americas free to govern as they deem fit, without being influenced or threatened by Europeans such as RUN, Vineyard, Great Romeo, Military Command, and so forth.

Sharina finds it difficult to compromise when these issues are quite serious and easily can destabilize the Americas, something that is occuring right now with the land-grabbing by the RUN, the actions being taken by Brinkman's Isle and Vineyard, and the emergence of the new faction of Braska. The RUN apparently is doing the worst thing imaginable, already inflaming a destabilized South America with annexations, occupation, and neo-colonialism. How can we reason or compromise if the RUN continues on self-destructive actions in South America?

Despite misgivings, we are willing to discuss the issue. However, if the RUN continues on this course, the situation in South America will continue to escalate, particularly with Brinkman, Vineyard, and possibly Braska if Braska chooses to get involved."

--------------------------------------

OOC:

This conference is held between myself and the Emirate, which is secret talks as far as I know.

----------------------------

* = The First Cold War between Sharina + FOAM and the UFSR (super-USSR) which was comprised of most of Eurasia way back in the early days of Earth V in 2005 (RL).

OCC: Sorry to barge in, I was just wondering if this meeting was pubic (as in this is an official state visit) or private (as in this meeting is being held in the upper most secrecy)? If it is taking place in quiet, then what I'm reading I won't be able to use one bit of what is being discussed here IC. If, it is a public meeting, then well that's different.

Also, for the record- I killed the Iberian Netherlands. No, more-gone-caput-dead as a door knob. I called it the Republic of United Nations for some reason- it's composed of many nations, not just one. When you refer to the Iberians, I'm assuming you mean the Kingdom of Iberia, which you would be correct in referring to them as that- as they are the ones who sent troops into those four South American countries on that Peacekeeping mission. Their's also four other members, with more joining officially once their application is worked out.

Again, sorry for butting in. I'm enjoying the RP and keep up the good meeting.

[ooc: this is a private meeting in Sharina - I would have made it more public, but you know, I don't want to have this become a fight fest of diplomacy, so I'm dealing one-on-one with each party. I will talk to the RUN when it comes to that time [that conference that you are so willing to wait with me when we return from Hajj :)]. And as a reference, I'm only using the Iberian Netherlands because that's the government with which I have the most concern - the RUN is fresh and despite being the proceeding state of the Iberian Netherlands, is not the same government. I will make references to both, so don't feel offended that I am ignoring your comments - it's just a matter of semantics and intention in the words.]

SIC [since it now warrants the sign]:


"Is it plausible to ask the RUN cease the expansion perpetrated by the predecessor state? After all, it would be unrealistic at this point to convince them to retract all of their expansions currently acquired. However, once they have stopped, and their forces are stationary, it would be much more likely that we can convince them to submit the territories under their current control to vote in plebiscite to decide their fates [I'm figuring out how we could manage to do something like that...]. After all, it is the right of the people - wherever and whenever - to decide under whose government to exist. We can introduce an international coalition, with support from Sharina and RUN, to help moderate this elections, and thus allow a more unbiased setting under which the people can choose their favorable status - either as a partition of the RUN, or as a separate entity. If this is agreeable to Sharina, we can ask the RUN to assent to this proposal, and thus avoid any serious conflict of interest. I cannot say that they will agree to it, but we feel that if your government is willing to allow the people's decisions in the Americas, we can reach the best solution to which the peoples can arrive in the Americas to which both governments can hopefully agree. Would your government look favorably upon this idea?"

Rudolph responded.

"Sharina would not mind holding such an election.

However, our major concern is that should the people somehow elect to remain part of the RUN, then any war that involves the RUN will create instability within the Americas. The nation(s) that RUN may be involved in war with may attack the RUN's American holdings. If the nations do not join the RUN or are annexed by the RUN, then European, African, or Asian wars that RUN may get involved in will not threaten the nations of South America.

Thus, you see our problem with the RUN."

Abd Al Qadir nodded: "Then it is not the will of the people that you oppose, more so the structure of the RUN. We cannot say that we can do much in determining the best possible solution. As we both notice, the Emirate and Sharina are both relatively regional states, and thus any conflicts that would involve us are unlikely to spark much of a global reach. However, states such as the RUN and Vineyard are more global empires, stretching whatever influence they possess to nearly all regions. Now, both states are on friendly terms - the latter being an ally of the Emirate in certain functions - and in any case, we would not wish to dictate their policies of expressing their interests until they present a clear conflict with our interests. The predecessor Iberian Kingdom had begun such policies of presenting a conflict with Sharina, and as such we wish to change this to an extent that neither infringe much on their interests nor perpetrate the war with Sharina, another dear friend. Therefore, given all of the other facts, are there any possible means to bring the Sharina and the RUN to positive terms as they stand currently - that is, what suggestions would Sharina suggest the RUN execute to create a more peaceable solution than currently exists?"

Rudolph gave a deep sigh.

"I honestly do not know. This is because what Sharina desires would be unlikely to be done peacefully.

Put simply, we wish to see RUN's political and territorial control removed from the Americas, for the sake of stability and cease any potential spread of warfare into the Americas. The war with Brinkman Isle and Vineyard proves this point.

However, I don't think the RUN will be willing to give up political and territorial control in the Americas for the sake of stability. The RUN apparently does not understand that holding territories haphazardly all over the world is a prime invitation for a global war, and does not serve the best interests of the people in these areas. Examples of failed attempts at this form of Empire would be pratically all of the European nations prior to the two World Wars in the first half of the 20th century, most notably Britain and France.

Again, Sharina does not see how its goal of RUN giving up political and territorial control in the Americas would be possible through diplomacy and compromise, considering the RUN had recently annexed Argentina and possibly even more nations, and isn't likely to give up all that hard work.

The bottom line is that Sharina is willing to come to the diplomatic table with the RUN, but is the RUN willing to give up its political and territorial control in South America for perhaps some concessions from Sharina concerning Europe or some such thing?"

Rudolph gave a deep sigh.

"I honestly do not know. This is because what Sharina desires would be unlikely to be done peacefully.

Put simply, we wish to see RUN's political and territorial control removed from the Americas, for the sake of stability and cease any potential spread of warfare into the Americas. The war with Brinkman Isle and Vineyard proves this point.

However, I don't think the RUN will be willing to give up political and territorial control in the Americas for the sake of stability. The RUN apparently does not understand that holding territories haphazardly all over the world is a prime invitation for a global war, and does not serve the best interests of the people in these areas. Examples of failed attempts at this form of Empire would be pratically all of the European nations prior to the two World Wars in the first half of the 20th century, most notably Britain and France.

Again, Sharina does not see how its goal of RUN giving up political and territorial control in the Americas would be possible through diplomacy and compromise, considering the RUN had recently annexed Argentina and possibly even more nations, and isn't likely to give up all that hard work.

The bottom line is that Sharina is willing to come to the diplomatic table with the RUN, but is the RUN willing to give up its political and territorial control in South America for perhaps some concessions from Sharina concerning Europe or some such thing?"

Abd Al Qadir paused to let the ambiance return to neutral calm. There was tension in the air and while he knew of it, he could not decide what decisively made this a cause of tension. As he saw it, there was a conflict of two political spheres - the one seeking to have undisputed hegemony over its specific regional sphere, and the other seeking to expand its horizons and steal into global regions. At this present moment, the two intersected and there was now the question of whose political control gives in to the other. He knew from his own discussions abroad that the RUN would not forgo its colonial possessions, viewing their mission as one of modernization and stabilization. However, he could not rightfully ask Sharina to give up its own aspirations to manage the political control of its regional share, which was also a mission of modernization and stabilization. How does one resolve the tensions.

"I think that you already know what I am about to say, and while I feel that it would be necessary to say them, I have no doubt that I cannot speak these things away. But my question now is this - to what extent is Sharina willing to tolerate the RUN's expansion - coupled with the expansion of other states from abroad - before a war breaks? At the moment, this conflict truly banks on the mutual and collective decisions of your government and theirs. I cannot ask them the same, but to what extent is your government willing to skirt the path to war in order to preserve the political role that you state currently plays in the Americas? As far as I see this, the path of war is clearly inevitable.

"The true alternative in which I can see a peaceful resolution is the sponsorship of American states, independent of these former colonial powers, to rise up in their stead. Given this much in lead, I cannot see how either the Republic, the Federation [UCF - United Citizens Federation - MC...], and others would willingly give up their territories. But granting this, we would like to see if there is any possibility to cooperate with these powers, and instead of ousting them from the continent, rather help them build up these local governments to create the foundations of new states - as such exemplified in Braskan territory at the moment. If we can resolve on this, all of the governments can truly follow the purpose of their objectives - that is to modernize and stabilize the region - without directly conflicting in the other's sovereign mandates. Would this be a plausible resolution?"

After a long pause, Abd Al Qadir didn't like the direction that the events in the Americas were taking - they were going down a path that led the Emirate to a domain which the Emirate neither cross nor condone.

"As we are witnessing these events, does Sharina still feel that the diplomatic solutioin is a realistically viable mode at the moment?"

After a long pause, Abd Al Qadir didn't like the direction that the events in the Americas were taking - they were going down a path that led the Emirate to a domain which the Emirate neither cross nor condone.

[I]"As we are witnessing these events, does Sharina still feel that the diplomatic solutioin is a realistically viable mode at the moment?"

Rudolph Giuliani looked at his laptop and an alarmed look spread across his features. He looked up towards Abd Al Qadir quickly.

"It has come to my attention that the RUN has engaged in even further aggressive expansion in the Americas, namely the Caribbean. Sharina has to draw the line, considering that if Sharina allows the RUN to annex the Caribbean, it will send a message to the rest of Europe that it will be okay to neo-colonialize the rest of South America.

If the RUN annexes the Caribbean, then what next? Annexing the entirety of South America? A war with the new government and regime of Braska? The RUN is the one who is plunging South America into war with its expansionism, not Sharina.

We have not made any moves towards annexing or warfare with South America. Even though we were prepared to battle Dweladelfina Prime, the Dweladelfina government collapsed and we did not move in to annex, subjugate, or occupy the ex-Dweladelfinian lands. Yet, it was the RUN who did just exactly that. However, our forces are taking pre-emptive action in the Caribbean, to prevent the Caribbean from being annexed by the RUN. Sharina has sent in forces into Haiti, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, British and US Virgin Islands, and a few other islands.

Apparently the RUN thinks it can expand in the Americas and cause even more tension. Sharina was prepared to settle down, but it cannot with the threat of an aggressive RUN. I honestly doubt that the RUN will be willing to give up their war and annexation campaigns in South America as is made apparent by their land grab in the Caribbean. The RUN has dashed any hope of peace in the Americas by the actions it is taking in the Caribbean. Sharina will have no choice but to contain the RUN's aggressive expansionism, as it threatens the stability of the Americas.

It would be something similiar to Vineyard, Granate, UARCA, or Kopparbergs deciding to go aggressive in your backyard of Africa and the Middle East, and then create tension and instability as people grow uncertain of what the future holds.

Sharina is still willing to give peace a chance, but it is the RUN who is spitting at the face of peace through their recent actions. However, Sharina will fight to protect the Americas from such blatant warmongering and expansionism such as what is taking place."

"We have no concern over Sharina's intentions to rerturn peace. Our only qualm is whether or not this peace can be best attained through diplomatic dialogue, as what we do here. As it has become painfully apparent, the tensions in America will certainly lead to conflict. The RUN has no intention to abandon its American acquisition, least of these those acquired in its formation. The same would follow true for the states in the United Citizen's Federation and of Great Romeo. As such, it is now our official stance to remain out of its affairs, and hope that Allah does not let the bloodletting run so long to dry out the states of our beloved neighbors and or our mutual friends, wherever they may reside.

"I'm sorry to say that we can no longer speak of this," Abd Al Qadir spoke in a somber tone. The primary focus of his mission was now invalidated. "It is only seemingly fit that if no power wishes to heed the calls of the Emirate to bring this dialogue to a table, it will not be until the table is reset that we can begin offering our services to end this conflict of interests. Nonetheless, there is still topics of discussion worth mentioning. We are personally interested in the development of trade and routes therein to facilitate the movement of materials and money. We have no intention of making greed out of the world, but we feel that in order to sponsor rather strong relations, it would be best to begin seeing what sort of trading opportunities are available to us.

"Of course, that's something that we consider. I've just been reminded by one of my associates that seeing the conflict between Sharina and the RUN is likely to turn into a conflict between FOAM and EATO, we feel that this is perhaps the ripe opportunity to discuss the relationships between FOAM and RSA. Personally, I see the RSA as a regional forum, but as has recently evidenced by similar conflicts, in your region, our alliance can easily become embroiled in a global conflict, given the right circumstances. We don't feel that we have any particular need to go to war with FOAM, seeing as the Emirate is currently allied to two of its members [Boer Republik and Warta Endor]. We don't share as extensive a partnership with our RSA allies in developing particularly strong relations with other states outside the RSA, but we feel that if it can possible, we can begin discussions of an alliance non-aggression pact. That is to say that while individual members of each alliance can in theory wage war with each other, it is the obligation of both alliances to prevent that war from precipitating and that if war cannot be avoided, that both alliances resolve not to become engaged in the conflict, leaving the conflict as localized as possible without any serious repercussions against either alliance, save the loser of that conflict. In this way, both FOAM and the RSA can remain on mostly friendly terms, as we cannot expect that all of our allies will try to make the same friendly relations with the other members of FOAM.

"Speaking of which, the Emirate would also like to know if we can somehow form some discussion - if not now, then later - to develop a non-aggression pact simply between the Emirate and Sharina? At the moment, we want to protect ourselves from becoming enemies with our allies, even those not on paper. We wish to know if this is worth the discussion in the first place - if not, we shall leave that for another time. But first, let us discussion the roles of FOAM and RSA, and how we can potentially avoid an inter-alliance conflict with potentially devastating consequences."

Rudolph nodded.

"A very prudent course of action, indeed.

Affairs in the Americas are likely to spin out of control, but despite this troublesome development, Sharina is willing to seek friendships and non-aggression treaties with the rest of the world. We do not seek to wage war upon the world, nor spur our allies to do likewise.

As the premier nation in the FOAM alliance(*), Sharina can direct FOAM to enter into talks with the Emirate and possibly the RSA on non-aggression pacts, trade, friendship treaties, and so forth. Sharina will strongly encourage other FOAM members to come to the table with the RSA for such talks when they take place.

Sharina is also perfectly willing to establish various official and un-official ties with the Emirate, as we consider the Emirate a friend. We are honored to have such a friend in Africa and the Middle East, with such grand ambitions and peaceful projects such as the Quattara Project. Sharina also respects the maturity of the Emirate, considering quite a few nations are so eager to go to war, or throw neutrality out of the window at the drop of a hat.

Please, lets discuss our options for treaties between the Emirate and Sharina, and once that is concluded, we can discuss possible FOAM - RSA bonds and treaties. What say you?"

---------------------------------

OOC:

* = Seeing that Warta Endor is absent until he gets his school stuff finished up, I'm pretty much the spokesperson and "head" of the FOAM alliance, so I can speak for FOAM and propose FOAM stuff to be voted on by its members such as applications for membership, war declarations, trade agreements, exhcanges, etc.

[ooc: I figured that you would be the "official" head of FOAM, since you are the only active power - aside from the Boer Republik - in FOAM.]

REGULAR IC [i.e. SIC]:

"We will be glad to discuss bilateral relations, treaties, and that assortment of stuff, since we are considerably authoritative in our representation in the RSA, we cannot speak for all the members in performing unilateral actions for the RSA, as can you for the FOAM. But I am glad to see how your government is very willing to accept these dialogues to solidify peaceful FOAM-RSA relations.

"But let us resolve what we can finish here at the moment - that is, what we can do about Sharina-Emirate relations. I think that it is most pertinent to establish a firm treaty of non-aggression between our two sides, seeing as a war between us would neither benefit us nor Sharina. And quite honestly, given the state of internal affairs in the Emirate and in our region, it wouldn't a far statement to say that we would be on the worse side of the receiving end of things. But nonetheless, a firm non-aggression pact would perhaps serve us to establish the foundations for a future potential alliance between our two states - albeit, I find it quite difficult to fathom at the moment, given our perplexing relations with those parties involved in the disputes in the Americas. Nonetheless, can we agree to a statement of sorts, where both the Emirate and Sharina solemnly declare that our two states shall not press the other in a state of hostility or of war? After all, we believe that neither Sharina nor the Emirate will ever hold any conflicting interests that cannot be resolved diplomatically. Our primary concern is the stability and growth of the Middle East and Africa; yours is that of America. Unless by some random stretch of influence these two areas happen to intersect, we can only see the development of close ties, and perhaps even mutual respectful economic trades and relations between our two regions. But a military conflict would be far-removed and costly for either of us, because we first have an ocean to travel, and then the numerous local peoples inhabiting to pacify over that great distance. So military hostility cannot be a viable solution for either of us. Hence, I feel that a general statement can be made, where we both affirm a perpetual state of peace between our two states. Is it not possible?"

[ooc: don't mind Saint Lazare - he's a nuisance to the Emirate, as we have no clue from where he comes but he seems to revolve around us...]

Rudolph nodded once again.

"Sharina would be fully willing to solidify such a permanent arranagement between our two nations. Sharina seeks absouletely no desire to engage the Emirate in a war, as we would never wish such destruction, mayhem, and suffering upon such honorable and wonderful people as yourselves. We also do hold this wish for the majority of the RSA and elsewhere in the world.

Currently, the only nation that Sharina is quite at odds with is the RUN for reasons we've already discussed, thus, if a war were to occur, which is likely with the RUN, Sharina is only going to limit its military operations to the RUN and any of its allies that may attack Sharina within the Americas, nowhere else. Sharina is not going to attack Africa, the Middle East, or Asia. Therefore the permanent peace between Sharina and the Emirate should pose absouletely no problem, as we have no military or territorial interest within the Emirate's sphere of influence.

We actually desire to improve relations not only with the Emirate, but also with the powers in Africa, Middle East, and Asia. Europe is a sticky issue, as the majority of EATO is situated there and Sharina isn't on good terms with the EATO because of the RUN situation."

Abd Al Qadir noted how Guiliani tended to nod his head, and was beginning to think that this was a good thing. He himself nodded slightly, to emulate this good thing and asserted for the both of them: "Then let us resolve to affix our honor and country to forgo war between our two states. We are furthermore relieved to hear that your government holds mostly amiable terms with the RSA as well, as we hope that the future conferences between the RSA and FOAM shall yield progressive and stabilizing effects."

An assistance, having written a furious scribble in the past five minutes, presented a document to the Foreign Minister, who then showed it to Guiliani:

On this day, the [DAY] [MONTH] 2006, the Sharina Technocracy - hereafter 'Sharina' - and the Emirate of Alif Laam Miiim et al.* - hereafter "the Emirate" - have met in conference and thence resolved the following:

1 - Sharina and the Emirate vow never to wage war by futile means, up to and including the following:
a) implementation of hostile policies aimed to destroy or destabilize the other,
b) expressing illegitimate claims and authority in regions that are beyond the realm of influence for the respective countries [the respective realm of each being the following: Sharina in America, and the Emirate in the Middle East/Africa],
c) implementation of hostile policies aimed to specifically destabilize the ally of the other, without just cause and beyond legitimate claims;

2 - Sharina and the Emirate vow to resolve any and all bilateral conflicts in a peaceful and diplomatic manner to prevent needless conflict between the other;

3 - Sharina and the Emirate vow to make efforts to improve relations among themselves and among those states that are considered allies of the other, to reduce the tendencies of war between each party;

4 - Sharina and the Emirate vow to review the dispute in the Americas - to be determined at an adequate moment when the conflict has re-stabilized - to see if the situation has improved and whether any diplomatic efforts can be made to resolve it further.

Abd Al Qadir could see some awe in Guiliani's face, but spoke nothing of it. He too was surprised to see what 5 minutes of furious scribbling could procure [albeit with a sloppy script]. He passed it to Guiliani, to allow him to review it further, while continuing to speak: "Well, I am hoping that that is not a final draft, because I feel that we can talk some more before we agree to make any legal commitments to attain the very principles to which we agree. But let me ask - is any of this suitable to the Technocracy?"

Rudolph took the document and read it over carefully, and his smile grew as he read further into the document. He looked up towards Abd Al Qadir and responded.

"This sounds quite agreeable.

However, there are three things I'd like to add to the propsective treaty.

First, I would like to add point #5, which is that Sharina and the Emirate shall work together on improving trade and civilian matters between the Americas and Africa / Middle East. This should allow us to pursure luracative trade, open up our nations to exchange students and tourism from each other, and form the basis of continued improvement of how our two people may view and understand each other. This should be a good beginning to build up our relationship in the coming years. Military matters will come at a later date as part of point #7, which I shall describe shortly.

Second, I would like to add point #6, which would establish that Sharina and the Emirate shall aid each other in times of suffering, such as natural disasters and catastrophes. If there is starvation, plagues, or such in Africa and Middle East, Sharina will be willing to donate its surplus food supply and first class medicines. Should an earthquake, hurricane, or tsunami strike Sharina and our energy production is disrupted, the Emirate could supply some oil at low prices or perhaps some other type of assistance.

Finally, my proposal for point #7 is mutual recongition of both nations, their spheres of influence, and a commitment to ensure that both nations shall continue to honor the treaty. The treaty may be reviewed and amended every five years, as conditions may change, particularly if our nations grow closer together, something which I truly and honestly hope for.

Does these additions sound reasonable to you?"

Abd Al Qadir was elated. "I was concerned that you would feel somewhat at odds with these ideas, but seeing as it is you who volunteers these clauses, the Emirate can only graciously accept these terms. I was certain to be cautious not to make this agreement too entangling, but if it is fine by your government, we will gladly accept it."

His advisors around him nodded and shuffled a bit, noting all of the changes that Guiliani had spoken. Abd Al Qadir smiled with that, saying, "I can assure you that the Emir will be pleased with the progress that we've made here in this closed session. When he returns from his personal affairs, I am certain that he make every effort to invite the Technocrat [ooc: this is the proper title?] to Al Qahirah for a visit. I am personally pleased to see how far we've gotten as well. If only we could tackle this impending crisis in the Americas as well, then all would be better from it all.

"But let us see if there is anything else lacking from it..."

GENERAL OOC:

The Document to be signed at close now reads as follows:

On this day, the [DAY] [MONTH] 2006, the Sharina Technocracy - hereafter 'Sharina' - and the Emirate of Alif Laam Miiim et al.* - hereafter "the Emirate" - have met in conference and thence resolved the following:

1 - Sharina and the Emirate vow never to wage war by futile means, up to and including the following:
a) implementation of hostile policies aimed to destroy or destabilize the other,
b) expressing illegitimate claims and authority in regions that are beyond the realm of influence for the respective countries [the respective realm of each being the following: Sharina in America, and the Emirate in the Middle East/Africa],
c) implementation of hostile policies aimed to specifically destabilize the ally of the other, without just cause and beyond legitimate claims;

2 - Sharina and the Emirate vow to resolve any and all bilateral conflicts in a peaceful and diplomatic manner to prevent needless conflict between the other;

3 - Sharina and the Emirate vow to make efforts to improve relations among themselves and among those states that are considered allies of the other, to reduce the tendencies of war between each party;

4 - Sharina and the Emirate vow to review the dispute in the Americas - to be determined at an adequate moment when the conflict has re-stabilized - to see if the situation has improved and whether any diplomatic efforts can be made to resolve it further.

5 - Sharina and the Emirate shall work together on improving trade and civilian matters between the Americas and Africa/Middle East, allowing both states to pursue lucrative trade, open up the two nations to exchange students and tourism from each other, and form the basis of continued improvement of how the two peoples may view and understand each other. This should be a good beginning to build up our relationship in the coming years.

6 - Sharina and the Emirate shall aid each other in times of suffering, such as natural disasters and catastrophes, such to aid the other in recovery and further expand the mutually friendly relationship with each other.

7 - Sharina and the Emirate hereby confirm the mutual recognition of both states, their spheres of influence, and a commitment to ensure that both governments continue to honor the treaty. The treaty may be reviewed and amended every five years, as conditions may change, particularly if each party grows closer, which the hopeful intention of such declarations.

OOC:

Looks good. We should make it official then.

Were there anything else Abd wanted to discuss or anything extra you want to add? Or are there more topics to go over (now that the treaty is formalized)? Let me know.

OOC:

Looks good. We should make it official then.

Were there anything else Abd wanted to discuss or anything extra you want to add? Or are there more topics to go over (now that the treaty is formalized)? Let me know.

[ooc: to be blunt, I was expecting a long discussion on points 5,6,& 7, but seeing as those were resolved in a matter of seconds, I've got nothing else to add. If this is fine by you, I will post a signature for my Foreign Minister and then we can declare this pact in the IC thread...it's been a pleasure to have this conference with Sharina :D]

OOC:

Go for it.

Having received positive feedback from the Emir on his return trip to Crete, Abd Al Qadir returned to the table after a refreshing intermission and dinner. Ready to pronounce the the work of this conference done, he came to Guiliani and spoke a few words: "If all is well, we can sign this document and formalize the institution of these discussions and policies between our two states."

Guiliani looked back at Abd Al Qadir and gave a quaint reply: "Go for it."

With that done, a document was presented to them, and the document was therein reviewed for the last time by Abd Al Qadir, who rendered his signature:

On this day, the 23rd November 2006, the Sharina Technocracy - hereafter 'Sharina' - and the Emirate of Alif Laam Miiim et al.* - hereafter "the Emirate" - have met in conference and thence resolved the following:

1 - Sharina and the Emirate vow never to wage war by futile means, up to and including the following:
a) implementation of hostile policies aimed to destroy or destabilize the other,
b) expressing illegitimate claims and authority in regions that are beyond the realm of influence for the respective countries [the respective realm of each being the following: Sharina in America, and the Emirate in the Middle East/Africa],
c) implementation of hostile policies aimed to specifically destabilize the ally of the other, without just cause and beyond legitimate claims;

2 - Sharina and the Emirate vow to resolve any and all bilateral conflicts in a peaceful and diplomatic manner to prevent needless conflict between the other;

3 - Sharina and the Emirate vow to make efforts to improve relations among themselves and among those states that are considered allies of the other, to reduce the tendencies of war between each party;

4 - Sharina and the Emirate vow to review the dispute in the Americas - to be determined at an adequate moment when the conflict has re-stabilized - to see if the situation has improved and whether any diplomatic efforts can be made to resolve it further.

5 - Sharina and the Emirate shall work together on improving trade and civilian matters between the Americas and Africa/Middle East, allowing both states to pursue lucrative trade, open up the two nations to exchange students and tourism from each other, and form the basis of continued improvement of how the two peoples may view and understand each other. This should be a good beginning to build up our relationship in the coming years.

6 - Sharina and the Emirate shall aid each other in times of suffering, such as natural disasters and catastrophes, such to aid the other in recovery and further expand the mutually friendly relationship with each other.

7 - Sharina and the Emirate hereby confirm the mutual recognition of both states, their spheres of influence, and a commitment to ensure that both governments continue to honor the treaty. The treaty may be reviewed and amended every five years, as conditions may change, particularly if each party grows closer, which the hopeful intention of such declarations.

Affirmed in company of the Sharina Techocracy and the Emirate of Alif Laam Miim, in New York City:

Muhammad Ibn-Abd al-Qadir, on behalf of His Majesty the Emir Jalal ibn Abbas ibn Mahmud Abd Allah Al Misri of the Emirate of Alif Laam Miim

Having made the declaration, Abd Al Qadir looked to his counterpart and at the footsteps of the old UN building in New York; from there, he gave parting words.

"I have long enjoyed my stay in New York, and I have enjoyed the time that was spent resolving and solidifying the friendship between the Emirate and Sharina. I can only lament so much that we could not find a reasonable path to assuring peace in the Americas, but Allah willing, peace will find its way."

He made his way to the convoy set for the airport. "Well, Allah willing, we shall meet again. In the meantime, my country calls for my return home, and I shall make my efforts to improve the public perspective of the Technocracy in the Emirate, if only to improve the collective opinion of the peoples inhabiting the Emirate and foster some diplomatic kinship between our two peoples."

Having made the declaration, Abd Al Qadir looked to his counterpart and at the footsteps of the old UN building in New York; from there, he gave parting words.

"I have long enjoyed my stay in New York, and I have enjoyed the time that was spent resolving and solidifying the friendship between the Emirate and Sharina. I can only lament so much that we could not find a reasonable path to assuring peace in the Americas, but Allah willing, peace will find its way."

He made his way to the convoy set for the airport. "Well, Allah willing, we shall meet again. In the meantime, my country calls for my return home, and I shall make my efforts to improve the public perspective of the Technocracy in the Emirate, if only to improve the collective opinion of the peoples inhabiting the Emirate and foster some diplomatic kinship between our two peoples."

Rudolph Giuliani gave Abd Al Qadir a farewell message as well.

"I am glad to have had this meeting with you, and I truly hope this is a new and beneficial beginning for both of our two peoples and nations. I do agree it was regrettable that a diplomatic solution could not be found for the crisis in the Americas, but life does go on.

We must look forward towards the future, not the past."