NationStates Jolt Archive

The Emperor Reginald in response to the growing number of people who seek to gain partial citizenship, having all the rights of the citizens except to vote and hold elected office, through service in either the military, police, or civil service the Empire has decided to reaffirm some of the old ways in order to have them fully enforced in the Empire and to expand their definitions and powers. As well, the growing immigration problems have sparked much concern to the point to where the Parliament and House of Lords has acted on this.

Imperial News Network:

“Today the His Glorious Imperial Majesty Emperor Reginald, in his infinite wisdom and grace, acting with the Imperial Parliament and the House of Lords has now put forward a number of new laws to further protect the Empire and all its people.

The results where 921-79 in Parliament for the passing these laws and in the House of Lords the results were 768-32 for the new laws.

With these new laws shall come a number of changes and we advise all people to consult with their local law terminal for further details on the laws if they so desire.

The Empire shall prevail through the glory of the Emperor and his People!”

Updated Law Chart:
1. There is no longer any non-military related naturalization act.
2. Working and resident visas now are one category called dwelling visas.
3. There shall be no more then 24,500,000 dwelling visas issued annually, except in certain circumstances.
4. There shall remain no limit imposed on student visas though.
5. Visas shall have lengths of 2,4,5,10,12,15,18,20, and life.
6. People who stay when their visas expire shall forcibly deport and levied a 10,000 Darvian fine.
7. People, who are caught on two counts of visa length, includes illegal immigration after a visa expire, violations shall face three years in a Scandinvan prison without a trial.
8. Pertaining to partial citizenship they shall have all the rights of a regular citizen save for that they cannot vote.
9. The only way to attain partial citizenship is to serve in either the military as a professional combatant for six years or as a support staff for ten.
10. People shall only gain full citizenship when born when born to parents who are both full citizens or partial citizens.
11. Full citizens are the only ones able to vote.
12. The Rights of Citizens document shall only apply to full citizens and partial citizens.
13. In order for a full citizen to vote or hold public office they must first serve in the Imperial Military for two years or civil service for four years.
14. People with visas that put that they are citizens on a census, even on accident, shall levied a fine of 1250 Darvians.
15. All people shall be granted basic rights of freedom of speech, press, and religion.

Imperial News Network:

“Today there were a number of protests over the reissuing and strengthen of new laws, but legislation allowing the people who currently posses the status of non-citizens in Empire who currently number at about 1.25 billion persons. As well, the Empire had guaranteed the protection of their basic rights.

Yet, despite these measures there have been a number of large protests and small riots that have all been put down or peacefully controlled by the Imperial military in the service of His Imperial Majesty.

The Empire shall prevail!”

In reality the riots were quite large with many thousands of people in them, but the Imperial military put all of them down with any force necessary to keep the peace. As well, the resigns behind the rights were the putting of the chance many non-citizens to become citizens and now they were further strained by the fact that they must serve in the Scandinvan military to even gain partial citizens this caused the cultural divide amongst the citizens and non-citizens to further fracture.

OOC: By the way feel free to either send your IC or OOC criticism of this new laws implementation.

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OOC: Will anyone comment or respond to these new laws?

(OOC: IC or OOC response?)

OOC: Both would do quite well.

The leadership of the Errikan Empire is relieved that someone else finally understands their point of view and adopted similar immigration restrictions.

Official Statement of President John Holtz of Holy Paradise:

Holy Paradise firmly agrees with the Scandanavians' decision.

The leadership of the Errikan Empire is relieved that someone else finally understands their point of view and adopted similar immigration restrictions.We thank you for your support and we support you as well in your laws, but we have to say that we have had these laws for a while yet we only have recently updated them due to an expanding population.

The Glorious Naashan Empire supports these new legislations.

OOC: Foreigners are currently being arrested in Naasha, but we'd never have riots, none of my citizenry would dare.

Official Statement of President John Holtz of Holy Paradise:

Holy Paradise firmly agrees with the Scandanavians' decision.The Scandinvan Empire thanks you greatly for your support and if you desire to the Empire shall offer you its support if you need it ever.

The Glorious Naashan Empire supports these new legislations.

OOC: Foreigners are currently being arrested in Naasha, but we'd never have riots, none of my citizenry would dare.The Empire deeply thanks you for your support and wishes for you to have a grand day.

OOC: Though that is rather extreme as long as you do not arrest Scandinvan citizens I will not care.

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Ah. The stifling of democracy. Charming. Ah, well. What can we do against developing tyranny? Apparently very little. We do not condone these laws, however, as they may lead only down the path of dictatorship.

- Islandic League Minister for Foreign Affairs, Reene Brown.

May we inquire on how us seeking to have tight immigration controls and strict requirements for a person to vote and for people having to prove their devotion to our nation is a step back of our intuitions in which the power of the government is halved between the Emperors and the different Houses?

Yes. Yes you may. To put it quite simply, requiring a citizen to be loyal to the state (and, by inference, the ruling party), before they are allowed to vote, ensures the power of those in power - obviously, since service in the military (or government service) involves loyalty to the government, the effect is to force citizens to think a certain way - to vote for the government in power.

As such, only those who have proved their loyalty can vote, and those who have proved their loyalty will be indoctrinated in such a way as to vote for the ruling party. Thus, the policy is self-perpetuating, and removes the freedoms of those who do not serve the government.

It is a very short step from despotism.

The Empire only allows immigrants to become citizens through military service so that they can show they are willing to fight to defend the Empire and thus through service and devotion to the Empire, but not to the ruling party, they earn themselves partial-citizenship and their children citizenship.

As well, people can vote without serving in the Empire, but only people who serve in the HIM army gain the ability to hold public office.

In order for a full citizen to vote or hold public office they must first serve in the Imperial Military for two years or civil service for four years.

Mmm. Your new law says otherwise.

OOC: Funny, in a real life I do believe that everyone should show their loyalty to their country, but such as in a way that can anything voting to encouraging patriotism.

Mmm. Your new law says otherwise.

Immigration control his hardly tyrranical. Aside from specific immigration deals with nations, the only way someone is allowed to become a citizen is by official executive pardon.

Mmm. Your new law says otherwise.OOC: Acutally, I failed to mention that people only have to register in the reserves and stay fight really for that, but that group is really more of a formality.

OOC: Funny, in a real life I do believe that everyone should show their loyalty to their country, but such as in a way that can anything voting to encouraging patriotism.

OOC: In real life I believe nationalism is a misguided and foolish philosophy which lead to such things as World War Two. Loyalty to a particular ideal is something that makes sense - trying to do what you believe is right is admirable. Blind loyalty to a state, however, which exists only to unify a group of people, and indoctrination to the state's ideals leaves us with things like the USSR. Logic says the state is there to serve the people - thus, forcing them to serve the state reverses the relationship, allowing the few to rule the many without fear of reprisal. But, hey. Everyone has different opinions.

Immigration control his hardly tyrranical. Aside from specific immigration deals with nations, the only way someone is allowed to become a citizen is by official executive pardon.

OOC: I wasn't talking about the immigration control, in case you haven't noticed. Please, before writing something like that, read what I've said. It'll make you seem more informed in the long run.

OOC: In real life I believe nationalism is a misguided and foolish philosophy which lead to such things as World War Two. Loyalty to a particular ideal is something that makes sense - trying to do what you believe is right is admirable. Blind loyalty to a state, however, which exists only to unify a group of people, and indoctrination to the state's ideals leaves us with things like the USSR. Logic says the state is there to serve the people - thus, forcing them to serve the state reverses the relationship, allowing the few to rule the many without fear of reprisal. But, hey. Everyone has different opinions.OOC: Blind loyalty is one thing, but want I am saying is one must show geninune concern for their country and a belief that your actions really do matter in the grand scam of things for it.

OOC: Why? Loyalty to a state for the state's sake is foolish. If I have loyalty to my country, it merely gives unscrupulous people something to exploit. The point of a state is to serve the citizens - ensure individual rights, and to make sure people are safe. However, power corrupts. Thus, such a system could easily be exploited by the government - want to fight a war? Well, considering everyone's served in the army, it'll be seen as unpatriotic and traitorous to dissent. Of course, I think we should keep the ideology debates off threads you're trying to RP in, and in General where they belong. I'm not complaining OOCly, mind you. Variety in governing systems and the like is a great instigator for things in RP, and it makes NS a more fun place to be in.

OOC: I wasn't talking about the immigration control, in case you haven't noticed. Please, before writing something like that, read what I've said. It'll make you seem more informed in the long run.

I do realize that the main portion of your argument against him had little to do with the immigration control. However, part of it did, and thus I was arguing with that part.

Do not address me as an ignoramus. I did read your argument.

Immigration control his hardly tyrranical. Aside from specific immigration deals with nations, the only way someone is allowed to become a citizen is by official executive pardon.

OOC: You were seeming as if you were addressing my entire argument (saying that immigration is hardly tyrannical, implying that the entire thing wasn't), whilst only addressing one point. I wasn't trying to make you seem an ignoramus, it's simply that addressing the one point (and a relatively minor point, at that, as the argument progressed), gave me the impression you hadn't read the whole thing. So yeah, sorry about that.

#10 & 11 have us concerned. It seems like you are rejecting the ability for a rightful immigrant to gain citizenship, and also deny them a very basic right. While it is good you are upholding their inalienable rights, it seems wrong that you would deny political freedom and the achivement of becoming a citizen of the nation they desire. Especially thoes who have wanted to vote This policey has never been implemnted in Kanami, because our whole founding was a quest of freedom for all.

Ministry of Foreign Affairs

14. People with visas that put that they are citizens on a census, even on accident, shall levied a fine of 1250 Darvians

This one sounds scary. If you accidently get put on a census you don't belong in you get fined? That really doesn't sound fair. Then again laws are much, much worse in Neo-Erusea so I shouldn't complain.

#10 & 11 have us concerned. It seems like you are rejecting the ability for a rightful immigrant to gain citizenship, and also deny them a very basic right. While it is good you are upholding their inalienable rights, it seems wrong that you would deny political freedom and the achivement of becoming a citizen of the nation they desire. Especially thoes who have wanted to vote This policey has never been implemnted in Kanami, because our whole founding was a quest of freedom for all.

Ministry of Foreign AffairsThe Empire has issued these due to the fact that laws similar to those have existed for hundreds of years, but until now have not been formalized. As well, the Empire believes just because a person desires to be a citizen of the Empire does not give them a right to do so and further that a person should not be able to vote unless they are second generation citizen of the Empire.

OOC: You were seeming as if you were addressing my entire argument (saying that immigration is hardly tyrannical, implying that the entire thing wasn't), whilst only addressing one point. I wasn't trying to make you seem an ignoramus, it's simply that addressing the one point (and a relatively minor point, at that, as the argument progressed), gave me the impression you hadn't read the whole thing. So yeah, sorry about that.

okay. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

14. People with visas that put that they are citizens on a census, even on accident, shall levied a fine of 1250 Darvians

This one sounds scary. If you accidently get put on a census you don't belong in you get fined? That really doesn't sound fair. Then again laws are much, much worse in Neo-Erusea so I shouldn't complain.Actually, to articulate on that the standard fine for putting false information, which includes race, but not ethnicity for standard reasons will not be fined, will be fined only 65 Darvains.

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other than 10 & 11, The Empire of Magic Sorcery fines strong reason in these new laws. Illegal immigration takes a toll on economy and moral of a nation.

If we may so inquire you have mentiond that a person should not be able to vote unless they are second generation citizen of the Empire. So thoes that legally immigrate to your nation, and have children there, and there children have children would the right be granted to the later generations?

People whose parents, even if their parents were recent immigrants, where partial citizens by their parents serving in the army will be allowed to vote after they undergo military training, but after that they will be able to vote.

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