NationStates Jolt Archive

Im making this thread to discuss a very important issue in the NS world.

I've seen Corporations (Griffincrest, to name one) deploy Kraken Class Uber Battleships, Benemoth II HBTs, to name a few.
Who sells Heavy Battle Tanks to a corporation?

Seriously, if Microsoft tried to buy an Aircraft Carrier, Im pretty sure the order would be denied (in RL).
Yes, corporations buy guns, FOR THEIR SECURITY FORCES!, you are not expecting me to believe that you need a tank with 280mm dual cannons to protect, I dunno, a factory?

So, all Im asking, to every storefront owner out there, please refrain from selling heavy weaponry to Corporations.

I do.

In Allanea, the law permits corporations to run private armies. They're small, but still... my corporations have tanks and aircraft and such.

And tha te way it's staying.

I do.

In Allanea, the law permits corporations to run private armies. They're small, but still... my corporations have tanks and aircraft and such.

And tha te way it's staying.

Ok, but do they have Super Heavy Battle Tanks?

Plus, Corporations in Allanea dont go around declaring war to everyone, right?

However, I still must say thats not a smart move.

please stop complaining that we're whooping your butt

please stop complaining that we're whooping your butt

If you are not going to add to the discussion, please refrain from posting. Thanks.

please stop complaining that we're whooping your butt

Please start coming up with decent arguements/counters to criticisms of your godlike Corporations.

Maldorians:

Shut up, before I get involved and whoop you.

If they have money, they have guns.

This is exactly the sort of situation that NationStates is for! It's interesting to see a nation run by corporations, or at least inhabited by those such as the Confederacy is...

If they have money, they have guns.

This is exactly the sort of situation that NationStates is for! It's interesting to see a nation run by corporations, or at least inhabited by those such as the Confederacy is...

I have to agree. I'm rather fond of Blackhelm. I'm also rather fond of whipping his ass on a regular basis too ;)

I love that guy, Blackhelm is fun to RP with in my opinion.

If they have money, they have guns.

This is exactly the sort of situation that NationStates is for! It's interesting to see a nation run by corporations, or at least inhabited by those such as the Confederacy is...

Interesting? Perhaps, but to a point. When they start doing things that are impossible for even a nation to do, it is frustrating and god moding.

I think you are missing the point, Im not against selling weapons to Corporations.
Im against selling a KRAKEN-CLASS Heavy Battleship to Corporations.

Interesting? Perhaps, but to a point. When they start doing things that are impossible for even a nation to do, it is frustrating and god moding.

When I think of Corporate Warfare, I tend to picture Frederick Forsythe's "Dogs of War"

OOC: Surely you jest. I sell all kinds of crap to basically anyone who can pay for it, from assault rifles to multi-legged tanks (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=444410). If you come to my storefront with cash to burn, why should I turn you away based on your purpose or organization? It's silly, and it's bad for business.

I think you are missing the point, Im not against selling weapons to Corporations.
Im against selling a KRAKEN-CLASS Heavy Battleship to Corporations.

Why?

It's silly, and it's bad for business.

But its good for people.

But its good for people.

In a capitalist system, noone cares. If you can get rich, some one'd sell nukes to Al-Qaeda

Why?

Why dont you sell nukes to terrorists?

I don't sell nukes to terrorists personnaly, because I don't have any.

As a nation, I would sell nukes to terrorists as well, mostly becuase I enjoy causing unrest on other nations, and partially becuase I believe my missile defense system capable enough to protect me.

Again, why?

Again, why?

Remember me to Napalm your embassy or something.

Anyways, because its both morally bad, and economically bad!

Remember me to Napalm your embassy or something.

Anyways, because its both morally bad, and economically bad!

I'll be sure to remember you to napalm my embassy... yeah.

Anyway, making money is good, not bad.

Morality does not create the same turmoil a nuclear attack might, and thus makes it much harder to invade and subjugate the population later...

Back to the corporations though, why not give them battleships? I personally, in my nation have no corporations, but others do and they see fit to allow them weapons. Why is this morally and economically bad?

Back to the corporations though, why not give them battleships? I personally, in my nation have no corporations, but others do and they see fit to allow them weapons. Why is this morally and economically bad?

First, Morally, it allows them to conduct attacks, kill people indiscriminately and raid resources.
Second, economically, they are able to create a monopoly and thus control said economy, plus the wars they get into affect your country.

First, I don't care, becuase they're not my people.

Secondly, I don't care about anyone's economy, and the wars they get into have never once affected my nation in even the tiniest of ways.

First, I don't care, becuase they're not my people.

Secondly, I don't care about anyone's economy, and the wars they get into have never once affected my nation in even the tiniest of ways.

Thats incredibly selfish, you know.

So?

There exist private mercenary corporations and corporate-owned armed divisions within The Community. We do not care what weapons they employ, so long as they do not contribute to extermination or execution of unarmed/defenseless persons, commit actions that are morally reprehensible (subject to judgement by The Council) do not support factions whose interests are contrary to those of The Community, and do not draw unnecessary attention to The Community.

So?

So what?

Armed Corporations and Corporative Armies have proved to be extremely harmful to everyone except for themselves.

And me, you must remember that. Me, and everyone else who can either avoid or intimidate them enough not to bother them.

You keep forgetting that they have never done anything evil to 93% of nationstates...

While it is definitely true that corporations with high-powered weapons are a danger to the political and economical stability of other countries and the country in which they reside, many corporations can, when they reach a certain size, posess the clout that a country has. therefore, it doesn't make any more sense to sell other countries these weapons then it does to sell them to mega-corporations.

While it is definitely true that corporations with high-powered weapons are a danger to the political and economical stability of other countries and the country in which they reside, many corporations can, when they reach a certain size, posess the clout that a country has. therefore, it doesn't make any more sense to sell other countries these weapons then it does to sell them to mega-corporations.

Exactly! These corporations are just like small nations. I would just as soon sell a heavy battleship to a tiny nation as a large corporation.

Emperor Pudu is correct.

You keep forgetting that they have never done anything evil to 93% of nationstates...

What about the other 7%?

and he can talk

What about the other 7%?

They are the stupid, tiny, or unlucky ones that end up fighting the Corporations becuase the companies themselves want stuff, or you attacked them in response to the first example...

Seriously, if Microsoft tried to buy an Aircraft Carrier, Im pretty sure the order would be denied (in RL).

That is because Microsoft is a company incorporated in a state, not a fully seperate entity. It is therefore subject to the laws of that state and pays taxes to the effect of forming a central nationalised set of armed forces.

Now, imagine if one of those things weren't true. If Microsoft wasn't incorporated in America but in a much smaller state, its requirement for self-defence would vastly exceed that country's ability to defend it, and therefore the local government would have the choice of either allowing it to purchase and maintain a large security force itself or risk losing it through massive taxes to create a central set of armed forces.

Next, what if the corporation forms a state to further its interests? Now it makes all the rules, its workers are its citizens, and, obviously, it needs to form its own military to protect itself. Rule by a company or group of companies is in no way unreasonable; while it makes them less profitable, it also makes them vastly more robust entities because they are now nations as well.

Finally, what if there is no centralised military? If the military is privatised and military operations subject to bids from private contractors, you're naturally going to see some big hitters with heavy-duty gear as well as smaller outfits.

First, Morally, it allows them to conduct attacks, kill people indiscriminately and raid resources.

So, do you get all your information on corporate interests from Billy Jack movies and re-runs of Captain Planet? Military engagements are the epitome of poor investment: they risk valuable resources for non-guaranteed results. They're not a safe way to make money, and a corporate entity is going to be very nervous about them as a rule. Corporations in real life don't blow up tankers full of oil just because they can. Their board of directors, however cartoonishly heartless it may be, is not going to approve of random killing because it achieves nothing and costs the company money for no return.

Negotiating for resources is always going to be cheaper than 'raiding' them in aggressive military operations. These fears are entirely unfounded: a corporate state motivated by profit isn't going to do entirely unprofitable and tremendously risky things just because it has the ability to do them.

So, do you get all your information on corporate interests from Billy Jack movies and re-runs of Captain Planet? Military engagements are the epitome of poor investment: they risk valuable resources for non-guaranteed results. They're not a safe way to make money, and a corporate entity is going to be very nervous about them as a rule. Corporations in real life don't blow up tankers full of oil just because they can. Their board of directors, however cartoonishly heartless it may be, is not going to approve of random killing because it achieves nothing and costs the company money for no return.

Negotiating for resources is always going to be cheaper than 'raiding' them in aggressive military operations. These fears are entirely unfounded: a corporate state motivated by profit isn't going to do entirely unprofitable and tremendously risky things just because it has the ability to do them.

Damn, Captain Planwt sucked bad.

Anyways Negotiating for resources is always going to be cheaper than 'raiding' them in aggressive military operations. These fears are entirely unfounded: a corporate state motivated by profit isn't going to do entirely unprofitable and tremendously risky things just because it has the ability to do them. You should explain this to NS Corporations, you know.

I've already expressed my grievances with corporate NSers, in Tocrowkia's thread.