NationStates Jolt Archive


The People's Cold War Storefront

Soviet Socialist Rep
07-09-2006, 14:11
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This is the official storefront of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Welcome, Comrade, make yourself at home! We have world's most badass assortment of obsolete, deteriorating, low-end Russian hardware, shipped straight from our factories east and west of the Urals.

Although much outdated and obscure equipment simply isn't listed (like the MiG-17 fighter or ASU-85 airborne assault gun) simply because these kinds of weapons are rarely used in Nationstates, we maintain factories for virtually every Russian weapon in service after 1950 and can build any of them on request. Note that this is a Cold War storefront, in case you were wondering where the T-90s were.

This storefront sells only real-life or somewhat plausible equipment, and everything here is from the 1985 time frame, with a few extras thrown in that I made up. Don't expect any superdreadnaughts or other godmodware here. I wish that I could include logistics or command-and-control equipment for sale, but no one on NS ever bothers with those. Please tell me if you think they should be included or if you think that there will be a demand for those items.

The information in this storefront is based on a Cold War 1985-era time frame, so when I say "recent" or "modern", I'm usually talking early 80's.

This tour of the Motherland's factories is divided into four parts. Each one tailors to a specific genre of weaponry:

Tankograd: From the people who brought you the T-34, we have available every armored fighting vehicle you'll ever need. Also includes infantry weapons, attack helicopters, and air defense. (Not finished yet)
MiG Alley: Want to know who builds the better aircraft? Look at it this way. "MiG" is a household name; "Lockheed" isn't. (Not finished)
Red Sea: As Stalin said, John Paul Jones was the best admiral our navy ever had. Find out why he picked the Russian fleet. (Not finished)
Nuclear devastation, take two (or three): It's been a long time since the world has used nuclear weapons, but that doesn't mean they're out of style. Build up your chemical, biological, or nuclear arsenal before your neighbor does! (Not finished)
The Only Good Thing Mao Ever Did For the USSR: Before our falling out, the Chinese were great innovators in People's War. If you're planning on bringing the global revolution to a third-world mudhole near you, this section contains everything you need to get an insurgency started. Come here for cheap but effective equipment. (Not finished)

One long note: You will see here that all equipment sections have several different types of the same unit- for example, Tankograd sells the T-34, T-54, T-55, T-62, T-72, and T-80. A long time ago on another Nationstates-related forum, the question of "why?" came up. "Why do so many armies keep several designs in service when one will do?" Except for a few countries that maintain a high/low mix, maintaining both a low-end reservist force and a high-end fighting army, the answer has to do with economics. World War II and the ensuing Cold War started a massive research effort. New designs were being built so quickly that old aircraft frequently served alongside newer models. This is why in 1950 the Air Force had over half a dozen different fighter-bombers, most left over from the technological rat race of World War II. As war became less frequent over the decades, the military had time to slow down its research-and-development cycle, resulting in fewer and fewer designs being in service at a time. By the year 2000, it had only four fighter-bombers- the A-10, F-15, F-15E, and F-16- and by 2010 it will likely have two. The F-22 will be the main fighter, and the JSF was ordered simply so that it could compete with the Boeing JSF concept to give Boeing government money to keep the company's defense sector alive. Maintaining competition and ensuring that companies don't stay idle is another major reason that militaries make seemingly pointless contracts. Stalin decided that the Russian aircraft design bureas Sukhoi, MiG, Antonov, Yakovlev, and Tupolev should have at least one contract a decade, a tradition that has persisted ever since. It is also the reason, for example, that McDonnell Douglas' F-18 Hornet won the Navy's competition for its new carrier fighter, while Lockheed, which had the superior design but had been hogging all the contracts, had to sell its F-16 candidate to the Air Force.

The moral of the story: don't judge a storefront by how much crap it sells. You only really need one airplane, one APC, one submarine.

*****TANKOGRAD*****

Welcome to the Motherland's armor factories! Since World War II, our tank design has evolved in a direction entirely different from that of NATO- swarms of fast, cheap, low-profile tanks that sacrifice crew comfort for firepower and low cost. If you doubt this strategy, remember that our tanks have been on the loosing side of every war (except Vietnam, maybe) since 1945!

The information for this section came mostly from Steven J. Zaloga and James W.Loop's Soviet Tanks and combat vehicles 1946 to the present (1987) David Isby's Weapons and Tactics of the Soviet Army (1981) published by Janes. Both books have at the same time excellent detail on the Russian army as a whole and lots technical information. I specifically avoided internet sources and Tom Clancy. Both of them are fairly reliable, but usually give you only bare-bones technical information, without good information on combat history, tactics, or crew comments. Clancy also has a pro-US bias, and for no intelligent reason I just don't like him.

A short list of the equipment in this section and its price range (cost varies according to the model you buy):

Tanks
T-34-85: $ 125,000-$150,000
T-54: $ 200,000-$434,500
T-55: $ 350,000-$605,500
T-62: $ 400,000-$410,000
T-72: $ 750,000-$1,000,000
T-80: $ 1,300,000-$1,400,000

APCs
BTR-50: $ 200,000-$225,000
BTR-60: $ 250,000-$300,000
BTR-70: $ 315,000
BMP-1: $ 400,000-$500,000
BMP-2: $ 600,000-$750,000
MT-LB: $ 250,000-$300,000

Anti-Tank
RPG-7/9/16: $300-$600
SPG-9: $4,000
B-10/11: $6,000-$8,000
AT-series missiles: $10,000-$20,000

[b]BRDM-1: $300,000
BRDM-2: $350,000


Vehicle variants marked in red are available only to Soviet allies- talk with us if you are interested in them.

Tanks

Some important features on every Soviet tank:

Smokescreen- Every tank (not APCs or other vehicles) is able to inject raw diesel into its engine exhaust, creating a trail of smoke behind it. The T-62 and T-72 are usually fitted with Western-style smoke mortars on the turret, also.
Cold-weather operations- The bulk of the Russian army has to defend against the Chinese in Siberia, so operating in winter conditions is a concern. Every tank is well equipped for cold weather operations, having a compressed air cold-start system that the engine to stay warm in freezing weather. This way, it doesn't make noise by starting the engine in the middle of the night. A pre-heater prevents the fuel from solidifying at low temperatures.
Fuel tanks- Many of these tanks have mounts for extra fuel tanks that feed directly into the engine. These fuel tanks provide about 50% more fuel, but mounting them creates a fire risk. Soviet doctrine calls for a fast and relentless advance, which is why these are mounted. You will not need to send your vehicles back to the fuel depot as often with the extra gas, although they will still probably break down and need repair several times before the fuel is used up.
Reliability- Russian weapons are famous worldwide for their legendary reliability and ruggedness. This is false. This myth came out of two instances: the AK-47 rifle and Russian aircraft. The AK-47, as everyone knows, is simply the toughest gun on earth. Russian aircraft are technologically simple, and need only about 25 man-hours of maintenance between flights, compared to older Western planes like the F-4 that need over a hundred. In all other circumstances, Soviet weapons show the results of poor workmanship and minimalist design. What is true is that third world nations will often prefer this equipment because they are much simpler than Western designs and can be maintained by undertrained, underpaid, underfed conscripts. The T-34 became known as reliable because, although it broke down often, there was simply fewer moving parts to break, and anything that did fail could be fixed quickly by someone without an engineering degree from West Point.
Guns- I hear a lot of people who say that the T-72 has a 125mm gun which is superior to the American 120mm. This ignores a lot of important issues. Gun performance is affected by the length of the barrel (which allows the propellant to burn longer, making it possible to load more propellant into the shell), the type of barrel (rifled or smoothbore), quality of ammunition (depleted uranium or tungsten are hardest and the best), type of ammunition (HEAT, SABOT, AP, and so on), and the quality of the gun chamber. Russian tanks throughout history have been marginally inferior in all these areas, enough to make their guns noticeably less effective.
This does not mean that they are too weak. A stronger gun creates more recoil, which the Chinese are discovering as they experiment with 140mm guns- after several firings, the recoil force is so strong that the turret begins to slide off! Bigger shells are much bulkier, so less can be carried and they take longer to load. Modern tank guns have the long-range killing power to pick off targets at 3,000 yards or more, but historically tank combat has taken place at ranges of 500-800 meters- at that distance, any modern tank gun can penetrate the armor of any other, and it becomes a matter of tactics and reaction speed. Draw that Abrams platoon less than 1,500 meters away from your "obsolete" T-62s, and you can trounce the overpriced American paperweights by shooting at their side and rear armor.
Gun elevation- On the night of Oct. 13-14 1973, Egyptian T-54/55 and T-62 tanks assaulted Israelis holding the Sinai passes. As the Israelis picked off targets from above, the Egyptians mulled about helplessly in the killing zone, unable to elevate their guns enough to shoot back. As Soviet tank turrets are kept squat to maintain a low profile, the gun has little room to move around in, so Russian tanks will often not be able to fire at targets much below or much above them. This is rarely a problem, but prevents these tanks from assuming hull-down positions, an important tactical disadvantage.
Ergonomics- Ergonomics ("human engineering" or the science of making things easy for humans to operate) is poor on all Soviet tanks. Any tank has a cramped interior, and this is even truer in the case of the Russians. Their population is malnourished and so is slightly shorter than the West's, which allows them to build more compact and lower-profile tanks, but they are still cramped, hot, dangerous places to sit in. Concerned only with winter and fair weather operations, the Soviets only included a heater in their tanks and not air conditioning. In the desert, the crew compartment gets unbearably hot. This has led to cases of shock and asphyxiation in Arab armies. Controls and equipment are stubborn, awkward to use, and generally designed without consideration for the crewmen who operate them.

Armored vehicles today weigh 70 pounds or more and have became just about as "armored" as they can get. The world's heaviest tank was the WWII-era French Char C1, a 96-ton pillbox-on-wheels that moved at 5 miles per hour and broke down constantly. Suspension technology has made almost no progress since the 1930s, which means that any tank with that kind of weight is going to have problems. Adding a bigger engine (it would have to be big) would make the vehicle more complicated and less reliable, not to mention the hell of a bumpy ride it would make.

Nationstates loves the "superdreadnaught" concept, on the land, the sea, and in the air, so you will likely come across some 200-ton walkers or rolling pillboxes. If this happens, there is no need to build a bigger tank to counter it, even though it will probably have a offroad speed of 40mph, death rays, and a rooftop pool. Either wait for the unmaneuverable monster to go careening into a building, surround it with mines, hose it with napalm, or just steer around it. Should you decide to fight it, no problem- the tracks, optics, turret top and engine exhaust are weak points on every tank.

T-34/85
World War II Surplus (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a333/Athiesism/T-34posed.jpg)
Combat Weight: 16 tons
Length: 8.1m
Width: 3.05m
Height: 2.7m
Engine: V-2-34M 500HP water-cooled V-12 diesel
Max. road speed: 55 km/h
Range, traveling on paved road: 300km
Armor: (Front hull:) 45mm @ 60 degrees (Side hull:) 45mm @ 20 degrees (Gun mantlet:) 75mm well-curved; cast steel
Gun: 85mm ZIS-S53 M-1944, 25 degrees elevation, 5 degrees depression
Ammunition: 50-60 rounds
Machine guns: Two 7.62mm DTMs, one on hull and one coaxial
Crew: 4 (5 in company commander tanks)

By modern standards, the T-34 is obsolete, but thousands are still kept in storage for training and target practice. Buy as many as you want- it's about time we got rid of them.

Although the main gun is not strong enough to reliably harm 21st-century main battle tanks, it can do damage to 70s-era armored vehicles. The T-34 is also a good choice if you simply want a basic vehicle for infantry support and aren't expecting to face serious antitank equipment.

[b]Combat history:

The original T-34 rolled off the production lines just as the Germans were running towards the gates of Moscow in 1941. The tank's numbers increased quickly until it became the third most mass-produced tank in history (after the American M4 Sherman and the Russian T-54/55). By 1944, however, the T-34's 75mm gun was no longer able to fight the new German heavy tanks arriving on the Eastern Front, and it was decided to upgrade the weapon to 85mm caliber (hence the T-34/85). This famous Soviet tank made a great reputation for itself all through the war. Afterwards, it was sold to Soviet allies worldwide, seeing service everywhere from Uganda to the Sinai to Korea.

Although many consider the T-34 to be the best tank of its generation, in reality it is somewhat overrated. Simplicity makes for ease of maintenance, but in terms of armor, cost, firepower, and horsepower, it is roughly equal, if not inferior, to its famous contemporary, the American M4 Sherman. In terms of fire control and ergonomics, it was a mediocre design. Like the Japanese Zero fighter, it gained attention for its early-war exploits against low-quality opponents (the obsolete equipment the Germans had in 1941). When Sherman Vs met T-34s in Korea, the communist armor faired poorly.

Variants:

T-34/85: The basic T-34/85, manufactured the same way it has been since 1945. Would be nice to add to your personal armored vehicle collection. $125,000
T-34/85 upgrade: New T-55 style road wheels, infrared driving light for maneuvering at night, and uprated engine (improved from 500HP to 600). $150,000

T-54
When you want a tank, and nothing else (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a333/Athiesism/t54_1.jpg)
Combat Weight: 36 tons
Length: 9m
Width: 3.27m
Height: 2.4m
Engine: V-54 V-12 diesel, water-cooled, 520 HP
Max. road speed: 48 km/h
Range, traveling on paved road: 420km
Armor: (Front hull:) 100mm @ 60 degrees (Turret front:) 250mm rounded, (Side hull:) 80mm @ 0 degrees, (Side turret:) 130mm rounded, (Hull rear:) 60mm @ 0 degrees, (Turret rear:) 60mm rounded, (Hull top:) 30mm, (Turret top:) 30mm, (Hull floor:) 20mm; welded rolled steel
Gun: Early-model 100mm D10T2S, 4 degrees depression, 17 degrees elevation
Ammunition: 34 rounds
Machine guns: Varies according to version; room for two 7.62mm SGMT and one 12.7mm DShKM, plus room for at least 20 hand grenades and 300 rounds of small arms ammo inside.
Crew: 4

The T-54 is one of the most widely-used tanks in the world. It has fought in every corner of the globe, and, although it was phased out of almost every major army by the 21st century, irregular forces in places like Afghanistan and Lebanon are still using it. Production of the T-54 began in 1949, and although few were built, the design was exported to several nations. China built a copy, the T-59, which also sold very well.

This is perhaps the most bare-bone, simplistic, utilitarian tank design in the world. A T-54's turret is notoriously cramped, and it has no turret basket (the floor of the fighting compartment does not revolve with the turret). Crewmen not sitting in the turret's seats, which are suspended from the turret roof, risk being crushed by the rotating gun breech. There is no bore evacuator, and spent brass litters the inside of the turret. And that's just ergonomics- gun stabilization and NBC defenses are primitive or nonexistent in most versions, and the engine and tracks wear out quickly. In exchange for all this, you get a very cheap, reasonably armored vehicle that has been a mainstay of the Soviet armored forces for years.

Combat history:

T-54s and T-55s are closely related, and both models have fought in nearly every war around the globe since 1945, often against each other. It helped validate the theory that tanks could be used effectively in the jungle when the North Vietnamese used them to crush ARVN forces during the Vietnam War. Experience has shown that the T-54/55 have good mobility and a low profile, with mechanical unreliability and poor crew accommodations (during the Arab-Israeli wars, the non-air-conditioned interior often became hotter than 120 degrees) being criticized.

The T-55 and T-54 are what you buy when you want a tank, and nothing else. They would not be very effective against main battle tanks, but are sufficient for infantry support or engaging second-rate armor.

Variants:

The T-54 has been seen in dozens of different configurations, and although there are some clear model distinctions, many of the vehicles have been made-to-order. Here is a list of equipment you can add to your vehicle and its cost:

Base T-54: $200,000

Hull-mounted 7.62mm SGMT machine gun: $2,000
Coaxial 7.62mm SGMT machine gun: $1,500

Cupola-mounted 12.7mm DShKM antiaircraft machine gun: $4,000
Infra-red emitter, IR driving light and IR gun sight: $100,000
Bore evacuator (prevents smoke from building up inside the gun chamber): $5,000
Vertical-plane gun stabilization (better gun accuracy while on the move): $5,000
Full stabilization (better gun accuracy when firing on the move while turning): $10,000
Upgraded power train (improved oil filters, electrical oil pump, bilge pumps): $ 6,000
Automatic fire extinguishers (contains CFC gases): $ 5,000
Power elevation for the main gun: $5,000
Fittings for fuel tanks (increases range to 615km): $1,000
Laser range finder/target designator (better accuracy, allows tank to steer laser-guided missiles): $100,000
Base T-54 with all extras: $434,500

T-55
The Red Horde (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a333/Athiesism/IAFM-T-55.jpg)
Combat Weight: 36 tons
Length: 9m
Width: 3.27m
Height: 2.4m
Engine: V-55 V-12 diesel, water-cooled, 580 HP
Max. road speed: 48 km/h
Range, traveling on paved road: 420km
Armor: (Front hull:) 100mm @ 60 degrees (Turret front:) 250mm rounded, (Side hull:) 80mm @ 0 degrees, (Side turret:) 130mm rounded, (Hull rear:) 60mm @ 0 degrees, (Turret rear:) 60mm rounded, (Hull top:) 30mm, (Turret top:) 30mm, (Hull floor:) 20mm; welded rolled steel
Gun: 100mm D10T2S, 4 degrees depression, 17 degrees elevation
Ammunition: 43 rounds
Machine guns: Varies according to version; room for two 7.62mm SGMT and one 12.7mm DShKM, plus room for at least 20 hand grenades and 300 rounds of small arms ammo inside.
Crew: 4

The primitive T-54 spawned the slightly more advanced T-55, which was produced in greater numbers and saw more action. Both of the tanks have been used extensively around the world, and it's possible that 100,000 of them have been built (making this the most numerous tank in the world). Realizing that the new nuclear battlefield required a tank with NBC protection, the Soviets rolled out the T-55 in 1961. Its main improvements were a better power train, full main gun stabilization, the addition of a turret basket, an electro-hydraulic mechanism to move the turret (it was powered manually in the T-54), an automatic fire extinguisher, external fuel tank mounts and infrared sights, along with, of course, a PAZ NBC defense system and an attempt at creating an airtight interior.

Combat history:

T-54s and T-55s are closely related, and both models have fought in nearly every war around the globe since 1945, often against each other. It helped validate the theory that tanks could be used effectively in the jungle when the North Vietnamese used them to crush ARVN forces during the Vietnam War. Experience has shown that the T-54/55 have good mobility and a low profile, with mechanical unreliability and poor crew accommodations (during the Arab-Israeli wars, the non-air-conditioned interior often became hotter than 120 degrees) being criticized.

The T-55, although an improvement over earlier models, is at best a second-rate weapon. The Soviet Union uses it to equip low-quality reserve divisions, but it is no longer used very much by the Group of Soviet Forces in Germany.

Variants:

The T-55 has been seen in dozens of different configurations, and although there are some clear model distinctions, many of the vehicles have been made-to-order. One difference between the T-54 and T-55 is that the latter does not have a hull machine gun due to its airtight NBC (nuclear, biological and chemical) defense system. Here is a list of equipment you can add to your vehicle and its cost:

Base T-55, w/o machine guns or IR sights: $250,000
Coaxial 7.62mm SGMT machine gun: $1,500
Cupola-mounted 12.7mm DsHK antiaircraft machine gun: $4,000
Infra-red emitter, IR driving light and IR gun sight: $100,000
Laser range finder/target designator (better accuracy, allows tank to steer laser-guided missiles): $100,000
PAZ NBC defense system: $50,000
Base T-55 with all extras: $605,500

T-62[/color]
The Tank Killer (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a333/Athiesism/T62.jpg$400,000[/i]
T-62A: Base T-62 with 12.7mm DShKM machine gun and a few minor improvements. $410,000

[color=blue]T-72
As Seen in Desert Storm (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a333/Athiesism/t72.jpg)
Combat Weight: 41 tons
Length: 9.24m
Width: 3.375m
Height: 2.265m
Engine: V-46, water-cooled V-12 diesel; 780HP
Max. road speed: 60kph
Range, traveling on paved road: 500km; 720km with external tanks
Armor: For T-72M: (Hull front:) 200mm @ 80 degrees, (Hull side:) 80mm @ 0 degrees, (Rear hull:) 45mm @ 50 degrees, (Hull top:) 15-30mm @ 90 degrees, (Hull belly:) 20mm @ 90 degrees, (Turret front:) 350mm rounded, (Turret side:) 120-300mm rounded, (Turret rear:) 60mm rounded, (Turret roof:) 45mm rounded, (Gun mantlet:) 250mm rounded; turret is one-piece cast steel, hull is welded steel
Gun: 125mm 2A46
Ammunition: 40 rounds
Machine guns: Coaxial 7.62mm PKT and turret-mounted 12.7mm NVST
Crew: 3

The West was shocked when T-72s first appeared in 1970. The large-caliber gun, especially low profile, and apparently heavier armor led many analysts to say that NATO had lost the advantages of quantity and quality. In reality, it was simply a cheapened version of the T-64. Although a effective design, it had a poor engine and suspension and was too costly for Russian tastes. The T-72 took its place, and gained a fearsome reputation for itself. This was shattered during Operation Desert Storm, where the Iraqi Army was smashed and its T-72 tanks in particular where said to be symbols of poor Soviet design.

If used competently, T-72s are a worthy opponent. The 125mm gun is exceptionally powerful and can almost defeat the front armor of the latest tanks at point-blank range. It can pierce their side turret armor as far away as 1.5 miles with proper ammunition, and its low profile and agility give it an advantage over many modern threats. PAZ NBC systems and infrared searchlights round out the package. The tank's most obvious weakness is that its own armor is thin by 21st century standards.

Like all Russian weapons, it's the little corner-cutting things that create the biggest disadvantages. To save training costs and manpower, the gun loader has been replaced by a mechanical autoloader, which has a well-known tendency to grab the gunner's arm by mistake and attempt to load it into the barrel. It takes 13 seconds to load a shell, and although it can be done manually to avoid using the autoloader, this takes even longer due to poor ergonomic design. The turret rotates rather slow, and it can't even track a tank moving horizontally at 20mph closer than 1,000 meters away.

With the T-72 coming to be thought of as the burning hulk seen on CNN during Desert Storm, Russia began work on the T-90 during the 1990s. In reality, though, the T-90 is a upgraded T-72, renamed partially to cleanse the new tank of the 72's reputation.


Combat history:

After a few skirmishes in Afghanistan, the first time T-72s were sent into battle was by the Syrians in 1982. Israeli tank losses were higher in that war than in the past, but in a purely military sense the 1982 saw another Israeli blitzkreig. Many of the battles took place at long range, a disadvantageous position for any Russian tank. In 1991, the Iraqi Army was mauled by Operation Desert Storm, and its Republican Guard T-72 divisions, which were initially thought of as the greatest threat on the ground, where destroyed quickly.

This does not give evidence of a poor design. These T-72s were poorly maintained, their brittle Iraqi-made shells did not exploit the gun's firepower, and their lack of GPS or other advanced navigation systems meant that the defenders had to restrict themselves to roads and other landmarks when planning battles in the featureless desert. The Coalition air campaign may not have been as effective as the Air Force would like you to believe in material terms, but what it did do was break Iraqi morale, and only 1/6th of the army resisted at all once the ground war began. All of these factors insured that the T-72 could not win regardless of how good a tank it was.

It will be a long time until Russia switches to a high-end volunteer force like the West. Until then, it continues to use mediocre equipment like the T-72, a tank that has many basic disadvantages but is nonetheless effective if used with proper tactics.

Variants:

Base T-72: $750,000
T-72A: Base T-72 with laser rangefinder, gunnery computer, and minor improvements. $900,000
T-72M: T-72A with thicker front turret armor and better side hull protection among other upgrades.$1,000,00
T-72M1: Export version of T-72M. Has same basic features, but with lighter armor and is downgraded in some areas. $950,000

T-80
The Next Threat (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a333/Athiesism/t80.jpg)
Combat Weight: 42 tons
Length: 9.2m
Width: 3.6m
Height: 2.3m
Engine: Diesel or jet turbine, depending on model; 900-1,500 HP
Max. road speed: 70kph
Range, traveling on paved road: 450km; 600km with external fuel tanks
Armor: (Hull front:) 250mm @ 80 degrees, (Hull side:) 80 @ 0 degrees, (Rear hull:) 45mm @ 50 degrees, (Hull top:) 15-30mm @ 90 degrees, (Hull belly:) 20mm @ 90 degrees, (Turret front:) 450mm rounded, (Turret side:) 120-400mm rounded, (Turret rear:) 60mm rounded, (Turret roof:) 60mm rounded, (Gun mantlet:) 250mm rounded; laminate armor
Gun: 125mm 2A46; some versions can fire Kobra laser-guided ATGMs (NATO designation AT-8 “Songster”) through the main gun
Ammunition: 40 rounds
Machine guns: Coaxial 7.62mm PKT and turret-mounted 12.7mm NVST
Crew: 3

While the T-72 represented a low-cost regression from the T-64’s new features, the T-80 was made to improve upon it. Like the American Abrams, the original version carried a powerful turbine engine, although the Soviets eventually replaced it with a normal diesel in the late 80s. The T-80 is an evolutionary enhancement of the T-72, but it does have a few exceptional features like thicker armor and ERA bricks.

ERA (Explosive-Reactive Armor) is a system designed to defeat shaped-charge warheads. Shaped charged warheads, also known as HEAT rounds, use specially designed explosives that give them a lot of penetrating power. The explosive burst is forced into a dense plasma “jet” that tears through steel. ERA bricks are explosive charges mounted on the outside of the tank. When hit, they detonate, doing some light damage to the tank but disrupting the HEAT jet enough to make it virtually impotent. They usually (usually) are not set off prematurely by small-arms fire or shrapnel. Some criticize ERA panels because they can injure your nearby infantrymen, but you really should not have infantry that close to a modern tank anyway because of the hot exhaust and huge gun blasts they will be subject to. Any tank can be modified to fit with ERA, but the T-80U was specifically designed to carry it.

The second advantage the tank has is its passive infrared system. The West has already been using passive sensors since the 70s, while the Soviet army continued to use the cheaper active IR concept. This uses an infrared searchlight to illuminate the area, quickly giving away the tank’s location to passive sensors. The T-80 has passive infrared sights, allowing it to see through fog or at night without emitting anything.

Combat history:

During the Cold War, only the Soviet Union used T-80s. Once the USSR collapsed, the tank found many willing customers all over the world, but the tank has only seen action in Chechnya. In Chechnya, poor morale and inappropriate tactics ensured that many a T-80 burst into flames along the streets of Grozny.

Variants:

T-80A: Equipped with passive IR and a turbine engine. No ERA blocks, no ability to fire Kobra ATGMs (NATO designation AT-8 “Songster”). $1,300,000
T-80B: T-80A with ability to fire Kobras. $1,400,000
T-80U: ERA blocks added. These add over two tons of weight to the vehicle. $1,500,000
Southeastasia
07-09-2006, 14:35
[OOC: RW stuff tend not to sell very well...]
The Pan-Soviet Union
07-09-2006, 15:04
Although many consider the T-34 to be the best tank of its generation, in reality it is somewhat overrated. Simplicity makes for ease of maintenance, but in terms of armor, cost, firepower, and horsepower, it is roughly equal, if not inferior, to its famous contemporary, the American M4 Sherman. In terms of fire control and ergonomics, it was a mediocre design. Like the Japanese Zero fighter, it gained attention for its early-war exploits against low-quality opponents (the obsolete equipment the Germans had in 1941). When Sherman Vs met T-34s in Korea, the communist armor faired poorly.

The T-34/76 and T-34/85 was far superior to the WW2 era Sherman. You base your analysis on The Korean War, when WW2 surplus T-34/85's went up against improved 50's Shermans. They were not the same generation of Tanks going up against each other.

T-34/85's in The Korean War were reportedly near impossible to knock out with a Bazooka.

The Sherman was in WW2 a deathtrap, vulnerable armour, high sillohuete, and highly flammable.

It was nicknamed 'The Tommy Cooker' by the Germans when crewed by the British, and 'Zippo' (Zippo Lighter) by Americans and Germans alike when the Americans crewed it.

The T-34 had sloped armour to enhance protection, wide tracks for rough terrain and first had a 76mm gun, and later an 85mm gun.

Up till 1942 with it's 76mm gun, it could defeat any German Tank put before it without fear or favour, German Anti Tank Guns were jokingly called "Door Knockers" By Soviet T-34 Tank Crews and only German tactics were the key and it's production was disrupted until the Soviets moved entire factories further to the east and got to building loads of them.

The Panther was a direct result of the T-34, with it's sloped armour, as was the Tiger and Tiger II.

The Soviets upgunned the T-34 to 85mm, and had a good punch, that could take out a Panther and Tiger on one on one terms.

The Shermans, with their original puny lack of punch guns, always had to outnumber a Panther or Tiger to defeat it in comparision, or have air support.

When the Americans gave the Soviets Sherman Tanks as a lend-lease deal, the Soviets saw them as death traps.


Saying the T-34 was a mediocre design is wrong. The T-34 was, for it's firepower, agility, armour, reliability, the best all-round Tank of WW2.

It revolutionised tank design with it's sloped armour and wide tracks.

All modern Tanks owe some debt to it.

The best Sherman of WW2 was probably the British Firefly Sherman, credited with destroying The Tiger I crewed by Tiger Ace Michael Whittman and his crew, killing all, in Normandy, August 1944.

The British Firefly, and The US 'Easy Eight' Sherman are the Shermans that were the basis and beginning for those Shermans used in The Korean War.


Other than this error, your storefront is commendable.
Soviet Socialist Rep
08-09-2006, 17:26
Pictures have been added. Click on product title to bring up its picture. As soon as I get done studying for the PSAT I'll add more stuff.

The T-34/76 and T-34/85 was far superior to the WW2 era Sherman. You base your analysis on The Korean War, when WW2 surplus T-34/85's went up against improved 50's Shermans. They were not the same generation of Tanks going up against each other.


Thank you for your argument, Soviet. It's nice to know that there are people on this board who know their stuff and who can debate without turning it into a pissing contest. :gundge:

Maybe "mediocre" was the wrong word, if you take it to mean "crappy". The T-34 was more of an above-average tank IMO than a revolution. At very least, its effectiveness was exaggerated. In 1941-42 when the British Grants and Shermans faced the obsolete German 47mm AT guns and Pz II-IIIs, they did very well, and this was the same as what the Russians did. Although the T-34's armor was probably its greatest strongpoint, in terms of thickness it was almost the same as the Sherman's (3-5 inches at thickest points on early models), and most tanks at the time except the German ones incorporated some kind of sloped turret, although the T-34's was a little more well-designed. What I think people really exaggerate is the armament, as Russian gun design, optics in particular, was somewhat behind the rest of the world for the whole war. Their 76mm guns were as strong as a German 40-50mm. The second thing people overestimate is the T-34's cost and mass production suitability- it was, depending on who you ask, 1/3 to 2/3s as much as a Panther, or about the same as any other medium tank. The T-34 wasn't exceptionally cheap or reliable, but it's often made out to be.

I think that the T-34 was an average tank by 1943-45 even if it did make a good showing early in the war. Against the Tiger, Panzerfaust infantry and Panther, it was brewed up in great numbers just like the Sherman more famously was. Basically I'm trying to say that it's not the "wonder weapon" that won the war single-handedly as some people call it (read the latest S&T magazine and its article on the T-34?).

[OOC: RW stuff tend not to sell very well...]

You'll see. Once I get everything in (nukes, airplanes, ships), I'll get customers. This storefront is going to be long, if nothing else.
Clandonia Prime
08-09-2006, 17:32
OOC: I want nukes some pesky chaps in the North of my country need some instant sunshine.