NationStates Jolt Archive

Any groups doing non-fantasy past tech around here?

Ok Aridiris have dumped this post so I take over. Curently we voting of witch tec lvl to use.

6000 BC: 0
Year 0: 1
1500: 0
1600: 0
1700: 0
1800: 0

If you want a teck lvl that Is not mentioned above then tell me and I edit it in.

you thinking of starting one?

I was in a few, then I had to go away and they died.

I'm always up for a bit of non-fantasy PT, anything from ancient to Napoleonic.
Personal preference is early modern (15-1600's).

So yeah, anything going on, I'll join, be quite quiet (going away) then come back and be an active contributor.

I'd like to get involved in some, but I don't know about starting one or heavily contributing. I guess that's what's needed with an unpopular tech though.

I live in Japan so the time difference is a hindrance with most players being in the west.

That's too bad.

I'd like to get involved in some, but I don't know about starting one or heavily contributing. I guess that's what's needed with an unpopular tech though.

I live in Japan so the time difference is a hindrance with most players being in the west.

That's too bad.


If there are few players I don't think that will be a problem. Posting once a day is enought if there only 2 or 3 players involved. If you want I can create one for you :)

If there are few players I don't think that will be a problem. Posting once a day is enought if there only 2 or 3 players involved. If you want I can create one for you :)


Well, we'd have to decide on some details first. The early modern period 1500-1600 was mentioned. I can go with that. Given the relative isolation of the world at that time we'd have to focus on a particular area, Europe probably being the most familiar. That could allow colonial exploration and religious strife to make things interesting. Monarchies and royal dynasties were predominant as well. I don't see why more people aren't interested in this, but maybe that's the history geek in me. :D

What about Japan? 16th and 17th century were extremely interresting and good for a faction-based RP, and squad/character based one also. Something like "The Warring States Period" - each player in control of one of the daimyos? Or just a group of ronin wandering around...

Europe goes for me too, though... but Japan would be more original, IMHO.

Yea I can go with Japan but to be honest I don't know shit ;) about Japan.
I know where they are placed in the world map, but that's about where my knowledge ends. In arias like Japanese History and Culture I'm blanck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sengoku_Period
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimyo

I would be up for joining something like that. Sadly going to be away for a couple of weeks, but anything you set up after that, I'm in.

You guys should resurect Austs old PT RP thread, in its day it dominated the PT world, I'll dig up a link dust it off and post it...

http://z14.invisionfree.com/Earth_Imperialism/index.php?act=idx

That is an alt-hist RP set in the 16th century run by me.
Its set in America around the time the Aztec Empire historically collapsed, however the alt-hist deal is that the Spanish, nor any Europeans, ever arrived in America.
Our current Deus Ex Machina explanation is that they all caught a plauge and are presently insane, and their arms fell off. It doesnt have any impact on the RP anyway :P
There are many tribes and nations (we alt-hist'd a number of tribes so that they were more centralized, meaning that people dont have to spend forever forming a government and all that jazz) avalible now, and the RP will be quite good once people actually start posting :P

Im the admin there, so if you have any questions feel free to contact me :)

Japan sounds good too. There would be the problem of people lacking knowledge, but we could work around it.

Well, I used to have an ancient nation, initially bronze age, progressing later into iron, but I found it hard to having lasting RP relationships with other nations of the period: they tended to die-out quite unexpectedly, and I can only assume that it was due to there being too few of us, and there wasn't enough variety.

That was a long time ago, and I've been trying this radically different nation (a tiny modern Stalinist-origin dictatorship), but I'd really rather be able to get that old nation going again. I've requested its ressurection, just in case it turns out that there are more past tech nations around.

Mine was a huge ancient empire (the population was many billions, but I usually played a reduced total, either 1% of the billions, or a fixed 15 million depending what RP partners/opponents were doing) with geography that was inspired by reality and could fit with it or be an independent continent (again depending on what others were doing). In the former case, its heartland was Asia Minor and it spread through the Balkans and much of the Middle East.

Er, in other words, if anyone cares, I might bring back a vast but ancient civilisation. In the past I was prepared to put it up against civilisations from different periods: we once attempted an elephant charge against an enemy cannonade :) Let's not dwell on that, eh? So, if other people had slightly less ancient civilisations, it'd still be okay with me. We'd probably be the old-man of the world, trying by weight of numbers and religious enthusiasm to cling on to a large empire with limited technology.

what if we dont pick a real place? If we just find a fantasy map on the nett or create one ourselves then those who wanted to join created there own civiliation? Religion, numbers cities and everythin? I've been loking for maps for some time and it realy allot out there on the net.

http://tes.ag.ru/oblivion/race/img/tamriel_map.gif
I nagged it from some onlin game thing called Tamirel or somthing. Probebly someone will beat me up for violating the copyright laws ;) anyway take a look.

what if we dont pick a real place? If we just find a fantasy map on the nett or create one ourselves then those who wanted to join created there own civiliation? Religion, numbers cities and everythin? I've been loking for maps for some time and it realy allot out there on the net.

Good idea. It would be a bit boring to be entirely historical, and would give people more freedom. There should be some sort of theme though, I think. Neighbouring cultures just don't spring up independantly of each other. Say if we had those 9 nations on your map, how plausible is it to have 9 unrelated religions?

I'm going away for the weekend, but I'll be back. Don't think I've mysteriously lost interest and dropped out!

I dont think we should have 9 civilisations. I think that will be to much information and to many players. I like small rps with 5 or 6 players maximum. We still can have neuteral arias.

We need to decide a tec level. If I created a stone age civilisation with citisens stugeling to create fire and someone else created a 1800 century Napoleon empire I it would be a little unfair ;)

And here's that big old empire you were hearing about, back from the dead! Ah, the Eternal Alshorian Empire of The Ralish.

Though my civilisation is iron-age, I am happy to interact with past-tech nations from another time. I just don't want strategic bombers and cruise missiles wiping-out my forts and cities!

Now, this doesn't have to be some one-off RP, does it? I mean, The Ralish are set in the past, is nobody else? As standard, I mean. We'd be happy to just start forming ties with other old civilisations. Starting to conduct trade and diplomacy until somebody decides to attack somebody, or whatever may happen...

Proposals kicking around are sounding more like the old PT RP we had going, that Toopoxia was talking about.
If that is, then a certain amount of care with tech is required (we started on '1450', but naval tech especially just crept upwards, ending at around 1650's style. still PT, but not what everyone expected when they signed up...) I mean basically if people choose to be below par on tech, they should know that to start with.
One solution is to use a map of somewhere historical, such as England under the Anglo-Saxons, with multiple kingdoms - you then have terrain and borders and base placenames, unless you want to rename something specific. And of course you can play around with the scale so there's more space if you want...

Proposals kicking around are sounding more like the old PT RP we had going, that Toopoxia was talking about.
If that is, then a certain amount of care with tech is required (we started on '1450', but naval tech especially just crept upwards, ending at around 1650's style. still PT, but not what everyone expected when they signed up...) I mean basically if people choose to be below par on tech, they should know that to start with.
One solution is to use a map of somewhere historical, such as England under the Anglo-Saxons, with multiple kingdoms - you then have terrain and borders and base placenames, unless you want to rename something specific. And of course you can play around with the scale so there's more space if you want...

I was thinking that if we start afresh with Austs old PT RP we should start from the very beggining, I'm talking like 6,000 BC when Egypt began to rise up, though basically what I'm saying is that we start on Bronze tech and work upwards.

Pfft. Work upwards? Then we'd not be in the past anymore *anchors spear*

Pfft. Work upwards? Then we'd not be in the past anymore *anchors spear*

Well technically everytime is in the Past, I've seen PT RP's that have dealt with WWII tech, I'm just saying that rather than experience one form of PT or another we should experience them all right from the Bronze Age, it'll also give us an opportunity to explain away any reason why anybody left, say that they like fell into anarchy, something which is difficult to explain away in in 1450's, so who's with me!?!?!?!

Hmm, the only problem is that in my personal experience, RP's set before ~1600 or so tend not to do well, issues with communication and lack of national cohesion mean that many people simply cant RP countries accuratly, not that I doubt the ability of anybody here to do so.
However, it gets tiring after a while, or it evolves into a ~1600-ish RP. Even the America's RP there isnt doing so hot now.

Are we trying to set up another PT Earth or do one single RP? I thought this was about the latter...

Harmonia Mortus Redux;11650493']Hmm, the only problem is that in my personal experience, RP's set before ~1600 or so tend not to do well, issues with communication and lack of national cohesion mean that many people simply cant RP countries accuratly, not that I doubt the ability of anybody here to do so.
However, it gets tiring after a while, or it evolves into a ~1600-ish RP. Even the America's RP there isnt doing so hot now.

I see what you're saying, though if it's got enough players over a small enough territory then those problems do seem to shrink some, maybe if we start in Europe and then work our way out, I think if we do hit the 1600's it won't be much of a problem I mean it just opens up a world of RPing possibilities.

Are we trying to set up another PT Earth or do one single RP? I thought this was about the latter...

it started as the latter and then evolved.

I'd be interested in doing a PT rp, set in pretyy much any era. I love history. However, I have issues with people who assume instant communications and all that...

If we do start, I think a good starting point would either be in the bronze age or 1500-1600 tech.

So count me in.

I think we should choose one age and then keep within that. I think the evolution part is a bit strange. Since someone definitely will evolve quicker then others. If not we should make some rules like: first week: 6000BC
second week: year 0 third week: ww1 and so on but then we would end up in future tec rather quickly. I want to try something new so I think RPing in year zero would be fun.

I think we should choose one age and then keep within that. I think the evolution part is a bit strange. Since someone definitely will evolve quicker then others. If not we should make some rules like: first week: 6000BC
second week: year 0 third week: ww1 and so on but then we would end up in future tec rather quickly. I want to try something new so I think RPing in year zero would be fun.

why not combine the points systems of E20 with the coolness of a PT earth, if you aren't familiar with E20 it's a high class alternate history RP which uses a point system to keep the players within a logical proportion of real ability, if we combine the two we could kick some considerable ass with this sort of RP.

i've run a past tech version of my main nation (the Empire of Kirisubo) before and even had a brief war with Terror :)

i enjoyed the old thread while it lasted and i'm certainly up for picking up where we left off.

why not combine the points systems of E20 with the coolness of a PT earth, if you aren't familiar with E20 it's a high class alternate history RP which uses a point system to keep the players within a logical proportion of real ability, if we combine the two we could kick some considerable ass with this sort of RP.

Doing a point system sounds like a lot of work thou. We're not going to make a new earth, we are going to make one small/big PT RP

Possibly start small (this has gathered a fair bit of interest on it's own, and there's no RP yet :D) then if it goes well look at putting it in a broader setting, so that it can go on, with new people joining as old ones drop out, rather than dying like our old PT RP and nothing much replacing it.

I have to say that personally I love 1600-ish as a period because there's so much going on socially, as the modern world takes shape - it's a major transition point.

Maybe we should create a new thread to talk about this RP, I mean we have hijacked a lot from the original point/question

Speaking as a member of E20, I like the points system. Helps keep everything nice and realistic. Of course, someone has to come up with the points values, combat values, etc to keep it running...And as a note, E20 is now about a year and a half old. Woo!

So we could go either way. I could go eihter way as well.

Wow, a new PT incarnation!

Terror showed me this, and I'm very glad he did. I've been in most of the past PT RPs, but after the fall of the last one I've mainly done offsite RPs.

I'm definitely interested, though I must confess I'm a little wary of a points system, seems to keep things to rigid and make RPing more about finding rule loopholes and doing math than about RPing and history. Still, it might be necessary on NS, where the range of quality RPers varies more due to the larger population.

I personally like PT RPs from the 1700s-1800s best, though around 0 and 1000 would also be interesting, and I would really do any tech level from the dawn of civilization to WWII. Technically, Caladonn is an FT nation, but I don't really RP in FT anymore, and have used Caladonn in PT incarnations more often.

I think people's ideas of relating size to tech are interesting, though. We could have a wide range of technologies, on the basis that the more advanced your nation is, the smaller it is. Thus, tiny Napoleonic-era nations would be on par with massive Ancient Egyptian-era ones. Of course, an RP following a historical period would also be interesting.

I don't want to consider the strength of you civilisation on the strength of your ns nation. A ancient civilisation with a population of one billion would be too unrealistic. I don't like the point system. It sounds like math and I definitely don't like math. I've done 1600 rps before and I've done 1800 rps before the point is that I want to do something I haven't done before. Therefore I think a RP starting in year zero would be interesting. We could evolve, but then we should just play for a while then, after some time, vote if we should evolve or not.

Earth Imperialism is unique...it has something unique every week :P
Right now theyre doing some alt-hist stuff, trying out various scenarios to see what happens. Occasionaly we hit on a good RP and it lasts for a while.

Hey,

This is NS Reallydrunk, my other account isn't working currently so im forced to use this one. I want to take part in this Rp because the last PT ones we did were wicked and very large, will this be Mid-evil or ...16..1700's?

I havn't done a swords, spears, cavelry..ect.. Rp for quite some time now and was even thinking of starting one myself till i seen this here.

I often ponder the thought of a Roman Empire or Roman Republic Rp...umm time will tell....

Hey,

This is NS Reallydrunk, my other account isn't working currently so im forced to use this one. I want to take part in this Rp because the last PT ones we did were wicked and very large, will this be Mid-evil or ...16..1700's?

I havn't done a swords, spears, cavelry..ect.. Rp for quite some time now and was even thinking of starting one myself till i seen this here.

I often ponder the thought of a Roman Empire or Roman Republic Rp...umm time will tell....

Right now consent seems to be divided between the 1600's or Bronze Age, I'm for the Bronze age cos I wanna RP the very past of my nation but that's quite a selfish reason, right now we need to work out when we're setting and how to determine tech.

sooo, is it gonna work like this....?

Each nation make a factbook, Rp things in your nation and at the same time open up to diplomacy, trade, alliances, what have you...

While creating KEY charactors to the story line as we go along, Generals, Emperor's, kings....

My nations name is the same as it was in the last PT RP, then...i was playing under the user name of Reallydrunk..which does not want to work no more...

**That pisses me off by the way...**

I think the PT times have LOADS of potential and would love to play them once more, hell even after if this don't work for what ever reason....


I want my nation of Reallydrunks PT army as it was... :(, in this Rp if we go in the same direction my army will remain similar to Romes as i have previously played it so not to change anything...

Reallydrunk is the nation of Osteia...only i really have it being that now :)...but...my population is back at crap...annnd i no longer got as many posts as it did, it was somewhere near 3000.... :(

Personally I would want to do an 1800's NS PT

1800's is too far ahead i think,

I would personally prefer 1650's..to 1700's

humm.. this interestes me... PT is fun.

i was knocking around an idea with Terror a day or two back. it had a points set up for determining the traits of your nation at the begining [weither it had acess to a specific special unit type or a specific less than abundant resorce or not, for example] and then continued in a fairly freefrom manner much like Aust's PT rp.

there would be disadvantages with negative points values as well, and all up you'd probily have about 2 advantages that werent' counterbalanced by disadvantages [if you chose to spend all your points]

had a ficticious map, chopped up into territorys [many more than their were players] and each player started with one.

figured it would be a good idea to give each territory a maximum population recruitable into your military per... i dunno, in game year or something... and if you drained it, and someone else took it over... well, tough, no more troops untill next time from that place, even if you take it back.

really though, with this kind of RP, it's best to keep the numbers out of it as much as possible once it starts playing. perhaps a dedicated mod or two [or just players as mods who would only judge on issues that didn't involve them] to resolve desputes over what is and isn't possible.

depends in part on having good players, but running these things by the numbers just makes them awkward and clunky.

also, having a fixed "X weeks of real time = Y amount of game time" arrangement is... a disaster if anyones actually got a life and putting effort into a significant battle etc.

fluid time works much better, provided things keep happening.

this from my past experiance.

oh... and if the end result is something that looks playable to me? Angermanland shall return. oddball tech and tactics and all :)

humm. never done bronze age... but the 17, 18 hundreds let me have 12 pounder feild guns... i LOVE those things :D

to be honest, i have no problem wtih tech creep. that's what Happens. that's how nations, areas, empires, etc got from one age to the next *shrugs* provieded you can find some justification for why your nation advanced, why not? *shrugs some more* of course, advancing simultaniously in all areas is a bit out there, and one does have to keep track of one's society and current tech and what that would lend it's self to. [for examples of weird society and resorce availability leading to unuseual tech, check out Angermanland in Aust's PT RP :) ]

err... i seem to have runo ut of things to say. i'll stop now with this: this looks interesting, and the old crowd seems to be turning up. bring it on :D

Wow, all the old crowd is here, and we seem to have a lot of interested new people! This certainly has potential.

The thing is, technology doesn't change too much between 1650 and 1850, at least militarily- In 1650, the Tercio is already going out of style in favor of bayonet and musket-wielding infantry, and the lines, columns and volleys of European land battles are formed.

At sea, the Line of Battle is developed, and ships have already been divided into 'Ships of the Line' (Suitable to serve in the Line of Battle) and Frigates/Sloops, who perform other duties. Boarding and oars sunk beneath the waves along with the Spanish Armada.

Though the next two centuries bring some improvements, such as larger ships and guns, more advanced firing mechanisms, and a minor role played by aerial balloon scouting, really no new revolution in warfare come until the use of steam and breechloading firearms in the 1850s.

Therefore, with minor differences, the combat of 1650-1850 would be relatively similar, and I'm open to any time during that period, though I'd prefer at least 1700 when tactics got more cemented.

Of course, doing an RP around 0 AD would also be interesting, but less so as I fear every civilization would emulate the Romans, since they had effectively made all other fighting styles obsolete until the stirrup-using Huns came into the picture in the 400s.

Of course, doing an RP around 0 AD would also be interesting, but less so as I fear every civilization would emulate the Romans, since they had effectively made all other fighting styles obsolete until the stirrup-using Huns came into the picture in the 400s.

I originally put forward the idea of 6,000 BC, it's simple tech and style, but I wouldn't mind any other tech excepting the 1600's, for me it's too far ahead, I'd prefer as an optimum time the Middle Ages, it's not too far forward and not too far back.

I agree, but maybe alittle ahead slightly....

oh, you know i'll find some way to make everything interesting..

the idea of "starting at the begining" strikes me as a fun one... 'cept i forsee many imortal leaders simply because no one wants to come up with yet More charicters *laughs* that or rapid tech development.

*ponders*

i am thinking, either horse and musket era.... or start from the bronze age. chariots, spears, minimul armor, slings, javalins, the occasional elephant, swords which could actually break on the edge of a shield, the begining of archery, naked cavalry [yeaup. greek cavalry in at least part of the bronze age rode naked for better grip. scary, no? this is what a lack of stirups and saddles does :)] actually...

anyway, horse and musket or start from the bronze age and go right the way through [eventually, if it lives taht long, probilby several years of play time later :P] to post modern. that would be awsome.

like.. Empire Earth... only less sucky.

at any rate, some decisions need to be made before this can go anywhere.

may i suggest a vote on era/over all timespan? [ie, just horse and musket, or bronze age untill whenever, or just some other specific era, or what?]

because a lot of rules are era/tech dependant. sometimes the need for them may well be.

since Aridiris have abandoned this RP by not posting since first page I voulentere to take over the starter thread (I had the second post). If everybody just vote for the tech lvl they want, then I'll count the Votes and edit them into the second post. I also want all players who definitly want to join, to sign up so that we know who wants to join and who's just interested.

I vote that that we start in year 0.

Actually, the original poster did reply in the second page.

Of course you can do what you like, set up any RP you can get people to join, but, for anyone who is interested, I'd like to restate that The Ralish is a past-tech nation, not simply for one-off RPs with no consequence.

Someone said that starting in ancient times would have everyone copying Rome. Well, stuff Rome! The Ralish are their own people. I think that such problems only exist in these stand-alone RPs that race on through time and involve being nations to which nobody's really committed. In The Ralish's case, I'm not going to just copy some real nation because I'm only temporarily in a time period, but stick to said time.

As I say, everyone can do as they please, but The Ralish would like to interact with some past-tech nations, from whatever period, more or less.

I don't really understand what some think may be the problem with communication between nations: they managed it in reality! And, hey, it doesn't get much easier in the C18th than in 1,000bc, does it?

Well, anyway, we're out there if anyone cares, in fictional land approximating Asia Minor and surrounding territories. Carry on!

If the starter post agian and want his RP back agian ofcours he can. But considering that he has a merre five posts, I dont think that will be an issue. Untill then I'm officialy steeling this RP ;).

Well, originally this wasn't *a* role-play, just someone asking whether anyone else plays past-tech... which The Ralish does. You're really not stealing any RP. It does seem a little off that you're saying that Aridiris is dumping something when his last post was hardly twenty-four hours ago. In fact, the last thing he said was, "I'm going away for the weekend, but I'll be back. Don't think I've mysteriously lost interest and dropped out!"

Aridiris was expressing interest in original geography, and in acquiring neighbours, I think, and I would be perfectly happy to assume my basic map of the Alshorian Empire connected to his or anybody else's. As I've said, the Ralish will be remaining largely iron-age tech, but I don't mind my neighbours being from the middle ages or even Napoleonic era.

I don't know if anyone else, then, would be interested in neighbouring The Ralish, but feel free to give me a nod if you are.

Edit! Ah, my old map still exists on shared hosting, poor and lacking detail though it may be!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Chivtv/NS1/RalishEmpire.jpg

Currently surrounded by sea, but I wouldn't mind joining it by a land-bridge to someone else.

hehe. mabey someone could dig up our old PT map? i'm sure the ralish could be edited in in place of a continent somewhere :P

much information and many points abound :)

oh... that map stretches the thread somewhat sideways. but you proiblby noticed.

i think the OP's question has a fairly clear answer "YES!" :D

next trick: getting something going and starting to play.

Yeah, sorry about that, I'd forgotten how big the map was, but I didn't suppose it'd matter much since we'll soon be past this page. In future I'll just link to it.

Well, I think I'll go and start up some sort of reintroduction post for The Ralish [that's rah-lish by the way] and invite contact that way. That shouldn't in any way stop anybody else setting up whatever sort of RP they want, of course.

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/7622/ptrpworldmap2qy.png

Philli's old map, I'm sure he won't mind if we use it, I might even be able to convince him and some other RPers to sign up, I could Cartography if ye like aswell.

(Yeah, me again, I'm afraid that I've nothing much to do, today, so I'm still here ;))

I would be perfectly happy to adapt to a basis in real-world geography. Alshor, for example, would become Turkey, or at least a large part of it. The rest of the empire would probably be shrunk (or I'd end up claiming half the world!): Akralon would be Cyprus, and I could substitute Greece or part of the Balkans for Agentia, and more or less abandon everything to the west of it, and just use my western placenames to rename towns within the rest. Gershor would extend part way down the coast of Syria and Lebanon, and part of Iraq would suffice for the rich lands of the Tudkahali princes. Come to think of it, that'd probably approximate the greatest extent of the Hittite Empire, plus a tiny bit, but, er, that's coincidence and the Ralish aren't that much like the Hittites.

Of course, the Ralish Empire could start out even larger, making Italy Sutruah and extending into Iran and the Caucasus, and taking Crimea as Kresh, and then be picked apart by other players if their civilisations are more advanced than my largely iron-age people. A bit of a sick-man-of-Europe complex. I don't mind, and will be flexible in that sort of regard, to get some decent past-tech RP partners for once :)

I just thought I'd suggest the gradual crumbling of our once all-mighty empire as a starting point for wider RP.

(Yeah, me again, I'm afraid that I've nothing much to do, today, so I'm still here ;))

I would be perfectly happy to adapt to a basis in real-world geography. Alshor, for example, would become Turkey, or at least a large part of it. The rest of the empire would probably be shrunk (or I'd end up claiming half the world!): Akralon would be Cyprus, and I could substitute Greece or part of the Balkans for Agentia, and more or less abandon everything to the west of it, and just use my western placenames to rename towns within the rest. Gershor would extend part way down the coast of Syria and Lebanon, and part of Iraq would suffice for the rich lands of the Tudkahali princes. Come to think of it, that'd probably approximate the greatest extent of the Hittite Empire, plus a tiny bit, but, er, that's coincidence and the Ralish aren't that much like the Hittites.

Of course, the Ralish Empire could start out even larger, making Italy Sutruah and extending into Iran and the Caucasus, and taking Crimea as Kresh, and then be picked apart by other players if their civilisations are more advanced than my largely iron-age people. A bit of a sick-man-of-Europe complex. I don't mind, and will be flexible in that sort of regard, to get some decent past-tech RP partners for once :)

I just thought I'd suggest the gradual crumbling of our once all-mighty empire as a starting point for wider RP.

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/6168/mapcopyap4.jpg

Oki, done a map, I used the knowledge that Alshor was in Turkey and used that as a starting point, it is quite large so I highly recomend you do RP th fall of the Empire and I would like to help you by RPing an Egyptian seperatists movement.

Quite, quite.

If the Alshorian Empire is to have that great an extent, I should think that a lot of it -espcially the enclaves split from the contiguous bulk of the empire- are in truth by now sort of vassals. With their own 'lesser kings' exercising a good deal of internal autonomy while obliged to kow to the will of King Ralish, presumably they contribute men when King Ralish sends out a call to arms, and collect taxes for the empire.

I don't want to trample on cultures that anyone else may have designed for their nations, so perhaps we would enter at a point by which lesser kings are starting to restore their own culture's laws and religions in place of the empire's. We might be forced to accept that so long as they continue to pay tribute and toe-the-line on more important issues, but such nationally-distinct traits are bound to create disunity at a fundamental level...

Probably I'll continue to refer to places by Ralish names -my nation shall refer to the Akralonians when speaking of Siciliy, Corsica, and Sardinia, even if someone playing them gives them their real historic or their own made-up names- and we'll have conflict in no time!

Blasted Egyptians are probably already influential enough to have their own name, though :)

Wow, that, um, covers a very large amount of territory. I suppose I could RP a sort of British separatist movement, but I'd kinda prefer being my own country... if you are going to be that big, I might focus on carving out an east Asian maritime Empire based in Japan, or go the PT RP route and be an island in the location of Mexico.

I'd still prefer a musket-era, but I'm willing to go earlier if people want. I still think we might be able to regulate more advanced tech by size- if Ralish covers two continents, I could be highly advanced and just own Japan or that sort of thing.

I'm not too fussed about the time period, either way The Ralish will be the same sort of iron ageish level. I don't mind if our empire is crumbling in the classical era due to general over-stretch, or in a later era due to an inability to introduce new technology to such far-flung provinces and armed forces.

Anyway, I have a more modest version of the Empire, if people think that perhaps the first suggestion is too much even for an empire about to break-up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Chivtv/NS1/ptrpworldmap2qy.jpg
(That map's not stretching the thread for anyone, is it? Hope you're all seeing the same size as I am!)

Egypt can be an independent kingdom to begin with, if you desire, though perhaps this map suggests that the Ralish have long been dominant, financially and strategically -key points on the coast of Syria et cetera being in Ralish hands- probably beating the Egyptians in battle in the past, and now it's time for the Egyptians to pull themselves together and recover some pride. Likewise it leaves room for European tribes to have been independent but clearly inferior to the Ralish Empire, now seeing their chance to rise up.

Obviously this is still a huge empire, but perhaps a bit more realistic? It still has a lot to lose!

Oh, for the record, I still don't mind Toopoxia taking charge of cartography if he likes, I just couldn't resist offering another possible start-point.

If we are ten players I think your empire will be to big. But if we end up with 3 players then it a OK size. Anyway I want to claim the following: Sweden, Norway, Scotland, Iceland and Greenland as well as all the smaller islands towards the north pole.

Well, I'm hoping to RP the loss of a lot of the empire early on, possibly as a jumping-off point for further RP. Depending on how much activity we have, how many other ideas, and how advanced everyone wants to be, picking apart the Ralish Empire could even be the race of the day, such as the Great Game or the Scramble for Africa later in reality.

But, anyway, we'll see.
Time to eat.

'course, a lot of the fun of long running RPs is discovery and expansion... if you start off huge.... *shrugs* meh.

humm. i'm thinking i'd be somewhere in asia. a lack of iron and horses really reduced my military effectiveness in midi-evil/napolionic type eras. also lets me have contact with people whatever era we play.

hummm.... Korea, perhaps.... good size, reasonable land if i remember rightly. had iron somewhere [turtle ships :D] should have horses.

Korea it is [all of it, not split into north and south :P] though if we start in an early age i'd probibly start with just part of it and do a whole expansion bit.

Yeah, I think I'll start smaller and more advanced, if that's ok with people... I claim Japan, Sakhalin, and the Kuril Islands.

As for tech, I'd vote for 1700, but I could really do a number of eras if need be. If we're doing anything before 1650 I'd like 1000.

Sign me up, for a territory of an archipelago - Britain would do, as would Indonesia+Malaysia - as long as it's reasonably near the centre of the action.
I won't be posting on it for a coupla weeks, but then I should be a regular contributor.
Expect a bustling trading economy and naval power, with feeble army, whatever period we end up in.
(I vote 1600).

If Terror's gonna take Indonesia, I might instead go for an island in the Mexican area... we'll see how things work out.

I never really thought I had ownership of this thread. I was just asking if there were any groups doing past tech RPs and it turned into a brainstorming session to start one, which is great. I didn't know I had some sort of responsibility! :p When I left for the weekend, it seemed to have enough momentum to go on its own.

Anyways, I don't think an idea of ownership or foundership of this is healthy, but someone needs to direct it in some capacity to get it off the ground. I don't have the experience nor am I organized enough to do this, but as I said before I left, I haven't lost interest. I don't mind at all taking a backseat to people more experienced in this. I'm just happy to have stirred up some interest and am looking forward to playing.

If we are voting on this, I'd like an early period. Bronze age or iron age would be great fun. So Year 0 is my vote if that's how we're doing this.

personaly, i'd dump Terra with the responcibilitys :P

ideas i do well... getting things moving? not so well.

of course, knowing how these things go, people'll probibly pass the buck untill it gets back to me anyway...

and it'll apparantly be a while before Terra is back in full capacity.

personaly, i reckon the earlyer we start, the easyer it would be to get Way screwed up tech wise. the biggest reason a lot of things weren't discovered before the middle ages was not that the places Couldn't do them. heck, rome could have built railways if they'd thought of it. the biggest problem was that no one DID [think of it, that is]

for example, a roman style civilisation sans slaves [assumeing it even got to the level it did without them] would probibly have steam engines in fairly short order.

then there's the whole fact that a lot of the early stuff, we don't know who invented it when, where, or why, only that civilisation X first discovered it when civilisation Y used it to trounce them soundly in one way or another.

we get to the middle ages, we can at least Mostly keep track of what can and can't be done, and what is and isn't reasonble.... even if creap does still happen.

coz, you know, we already KNOW these things, so the hwole "no one thought of it" bit is a bit... problimatic.


oh! bizare thought: an RP where in a single significant charicter somehow gets throwen back in time... founds a nation, and off you go... justifies weird tech leeps...

actually, that's pretty daft. might be kinda fun if done right, but not what most people are after, i think :)

I must admit that I like the idea of a man thrown back in time, but also think that perhaps that's an idea for later, as an aside.

As to the time period, I'm not sure. The Ralish Empire -I'm going to post a history, I just can't decide how much of the detail to include from the mass I've got in this old Word document- is supposed to be one of the really ancient giants, a sort of... cradle of civilisation for many later empires across much of the ancient world. If dropped into reality, we'd have been contemporaries of Babylon, Egypt, the Hittites, and Assyria at our strongest, and in origin peers to the Sumerians. By the Year 0, as proposed by Aridiris as a start point, we're probably outstaying our welcome in other people's lands, and thus facing a lot of pressure, though we're still relatively advanced. The Ralish, though, are never really going to get to grips with gunpowder, and certainly not industrialisation.

If we had enough people, we could even split the world in two. The Ralish Empire could divide iron age civilisations on one side from medieval cultures on the other, since I'm happy to interact with either, but with only a few of us it seems that players on each side will be virtually alone.

Bah, I don't mind, some of us should just start playing things and see who responds and how. I don't mind what time you're from, so long as it's clearly pre-modern, I suppose!

I claim Italy and the small islands surrounding it.....


This will be my Emperors castle...

http://www.today.ucla.edu/2003/images/030225beaum2.jpg


I vote for midievil
:)

NS Reallydrunk is....Osteia :)

Would you be interested in starting-out as a subject kingdom within the Ralish Empire, and breaking away?

According to this proposed map (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Chivtv/NS1/ptrpworldmap2qy.jpg), Italy would be within the Empire (called Sutruah, by the Empire, though the natives may not use that name). But, according to my plan for The Ralish, the Empire is falling apart, and your civilisation would probably be one that now has its own king -we'd call him a Lesser King or Provincial King- and runs its own affairs, but pays taxes to Azaria (the imperial capital, in what would be Turkey) and promises to support King Ralish in battle. As we start out, your King could just be getting too big for his boots, forcing us to try to beat him down (and we'd probably fail, because he can apparently build castles better than we're used to facing), or he could even decide to declare independence or something, and attack our garrisons.

I don't want to bully anyone to do anything, but that's my proposal for a starting point, if you're interested?

Sounds good to me,

Im in, My lord, Lord Charles Baird will swear alligence to your king....we will go further in depth..

Ostian Knights:
http://www.knebworthhouse.com/gallery/GalApr01jousting/images/2_The%20Knights%20Arrive.jpg



Osteia was previously NS Reallydrunk

Hehe, oh dear...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Chivtv/NS1/5_9.jpg

We're screwed...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Chivtv/NS1/alshorianguard.jpg
Alshorian Guardsmen

My forces are France/English based..midievil, with a mixed look, combined..

Also Gothic German knight look is common for heavy cavelry....

Ostian Heavy Cavelry:
http://www.arador.com/gallery/15c-3.jpg



http://www.geocities.com/statuart/Gothic_Knight_90mm.alt.jpg

Yes it's a toy but it's the best i could do....general idea right..

Very good. Ours mostly come out of the Middle East, Asia Minor, and Central Asia, and our golden age was during the late bronze age. Since then, only a few technologies and a lot of tradition have held things together. Our archers remain world class, but most infantry and cavalry is light, good on the steppe or even the desert, likely to struggle against later armoured European knights such as yours. We might be a threat to your rank-and-file men at arms, but the elite will be a shock.

I think we will work well togeather. Did you see my Gothic Knights back a page..i added them..

humm... middle ages works. ... expect to see Angerman troops carrying halbards a lot. ... the problem is, if we are spread all over the world, navle tech, at least WILL creap towards the napolionic/colonial style ships of the line and so on...

perhaps we should concentraite somewhat if we're playing in an era that shouldn't have that tech....

perhaps i'll start in Rus instead? [basicly, the bits of russia that are actually in Europe, not asia.it's not big, but the rivers make for good trade routs sumer and winter [ice roads or rivers proper for boats] though i think spring or autumn is a nightmare for trasport in the area.

actually, that's a good idea. Rus it is :D

i doubt you'll ever see Knights comeing out of Angermanland... Cataphracts and cossacks perhaps, but probibly no knights.

someone sort a map and start wacking clames on.. i'll ponder my fact book :D

oh yeah, and that pic is freaken HUGE! ... it need fixing.

Cool, I like the first guy especially, and think we'll be trying our damndest to find gold to pay Osetian mercenaries :) But, yes, the second picture is a touch too large!

Ah, northmen, eh Angermanland. The Ralish call them Rusticans, and hold them in very low regard indeed. No doubt this will come back to bite us somewhere bad!

Edit: Oh, our naval technology has always been a bit shaky. Triremes and light galleys, but fire-ships also a dangerous favourite. Our main problem is the use of square sails, we've failed to catch-on to anything more advanced, and are always looking for slaves to pull oars...

My main force will consist mostly of ground forces, Ostia uses light galleys and Triremes aswell....

I think ive put my descriptions/Images togeather rather well....all european, Gothic knights as heavy cavelry, Regular knights that were in the first picture as general cavelry, infantry will be equiped with chain mail, some plate and Templar Helmets, armed with pikes, spears, swords, sheilds, daggers.....

Archers, will have chain mail...light helmets...short swords..

General Cavelry:

http://www.knebworthhouse.com/galler...s%20Arrive.jpg

I know Angerman got somthing in store...lol, he always has...

humm... except for actually haveing access to iron, horses, and the idea of bows, and... being in total the wrong place for weird navel stuff...

i'll probibly make my nation fairly similar to the old PT version of Angermanland.

think i can get away with my hawk troops?

heh.prepare to be amazed. some of the more workable elements of the oddball angerman tech and doctrin will probibly carry over. a lot of the more useless ones wont.


oh... could people PLEASE actually take into account moral effects ?

having a glider swoop down and drop highly acidic chemicals on midleages era troops is going to do something mroe than make them go "oh, the dude died"

same with chucking firebombs into the middle of a formation...

[i had a whole stratagy that depended on breaking the enemy's moral so as to draft as many of their soldiers as possible once i was done, rather than killing them... the other party just ignored it.]

hummmm... *mroe thoughts*

A factbook of sorts (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=499502). Unfortunately it's not too... concise, but then I established this nation probably three years ago, and a lot of information has built-up over that time, and been half-forgotten when my nation was deleted for inactivity.

Since it is wordy and vague, feel free to ask specific questions there, and I shall try to improve it by answering them.

Yes it is rather horrible and demoralizing to watch comrades burn....

Lol, i can't imagine troops would be too egar to fight with the thought in their mind fire would be an issue...with all the armor my men wear it would be like being in a iron stove...

trust me, that's not bad. check my old PT fact book. i updated it every time i thought of something new/something came up i had to find a solution to [well, almost. lots of stuff got discussed with terra but i don't think went in. the legal system, for example]

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=465079

yeah. be afraid :D

Don't worry, Angermanland, the Alshorians have a couple of flashy tricks in reserve, too. We're good at adapting other people's technology, but not too creative in coming up with our own... it's just that we don't let old ideas die, and continue to refine them until we find a use.

For the most part, Ralish armies these days (whenever these days may be!) are unwilling peasantry with a keen awareness of the fact that they are subjects of someone else's empire. Most are just looking for an opportunity to break-away, only declining to do so while they fear reprisal. Only the Alshorian Guard is substantially different, and what one might call seriously-hardcore. It is not large enough to protect all of the Empire's borders.

Thats Where Ostian Subjects/Mercenary armys come into play... :)

You are larger than us and very close, plus Lord Baird likes gold :), Osteia is very advanced and equiped.

i am thinking then, that the Ralish empire is very rapidly going to shrink to the size where a more regular army can protect it :D

nibble nibble,
nickle and dime.
the Ralish was great,
at least for a time.

the barbs from the north
they did nibble and chew
'till all that was left
was the last very few.

[poetry! woo! i'll probibly come up with more if i ever do achive something like that :)]

Ha! Er, nice :)

Ha!

Ostian's will move on request where they are needed at the time, my armys not very fast because of all the heavy equipment we have but they are able to rock peoples worlds.

*ponders* which wins? rocks, or fire and acid? *laughs*

humm.. what things need covering in the factbook, do you think? i don't tend towards giving all the offical names and stats.. i more describe stuff...

the military i guess, and borders. the government system.... diplomatic attitude towards other nations. major industry/production/resorces....

gah. really need to map this out *goes to find atlas*

We need a person good at maps, yeah...

The map keeper...lol

all righty... found the map... Angermanland streatches from the Urals in the east, to a line traced [on a not-so-modern-but-definatly-more-modern-than-what-we're-playing (that is, the USSR is still around) map] from Riga, to Minsk, to Kiyev, to Kharkov, to Volograd (stalingrad), to Astrakhan. in the north it kind of peters out into lapland [or the ocean] as stuff north of the arctic circle just isn't worth it.

we got anyone doing maps, btw?

Ah, I don't mind trying for a bit, if nobody else is doing it. I'll surrender the responsibility when someone better comes along!

Will try to tweak the map, now, but I'm preeetty drunk, so excuse me if it comes out a bit... funny :)

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/content/images/2003_1524.JPG

Lord Baird's son :)>>Cyrus>> He will be the one that is usually delt with..

Diplomatic issues and such...

:)

Lol, my old nations name was Reallydrunk...i was drunk when i made it ahaha! :)

observation of people i know and the results of their doing stuff while drunk:

you get some good ideas...

implimentation/coherancy is often .. umm... poor. heh.

ugh... so.... many.... rivers... and i will probibly need to rename most of them, as my guys most definatly do Not speak russian [though it does sound sort of like it, i guess]

what annoys me is that my nation does not use the english alphabet... their writing has more in common with chinese or Dwarfish. no way to represent that...

*ponders* they have no Q,C, or F, though they do have a single charicter for CH, and one for 'space' [they leave gaps between sentances, not words, and don't have fullstops either :P]

probibly us C to represent the CH charicter.. which makes a better space denotating charicter, F or Q? [sometimes i'm going to want to write in their language, you know :D]

ugh.. i'm still tyring to work out how to give the bes referance for where my capital is... roughly where Kazan is, only a bit south so it's on the little stickyout penisula bit into ... the large river/lake thing i can't identify because there's so much clutter in taht area [too many small places right next to each other with really really long names :S]

Lol,

I think this is shaping up real well, when the others come on tomorrow im sure they will be shocked at our sudden progress :)....

Im excited! woo lol

I like Italy, it's perfect for me...

Ostians use Latin and English, rather odd combination but works :)

Hey, it could be worse... the Ralish write in cuneiform!

you're not the only one, Osteia.

hehe. the Angerman alphabet has 25 charicters, and 4 modifers for each.

each one has an alphabetic meaning
most have a numerical/mathmatical meaning
each one has a word meaning
and there is a capitalised form of each as well...

not to mention there are a couple that have two word meanings, and use the capital modifyer to distinguis wish word is wanted.

most of the words are prepositions and so on.

hey, Osteia, do you remember the "Rise Demonix" chant? *grins* i'm going to try and find/reconstruct that. it was awsome :D

Was it in Aust?

I remember you came up with some pretty neat tactics and uses of your military forces....ones that never even crossed my mind before, my nation was known for having a VERY organized army.

Maybe if you refreshen my mind a bit it will click, im sure i have seen it...

Aw, you all have shared history. All I have is a 1,085 day old telegram from a dead nation giving me credit for daring to pit my war elephants and camels against his cannon!

I'm still poking about with this map. Having a right time of it, trying to relate a political map to a terrain map, and neither telling me clearly what's what.

"Ah ha! That is the Ob! Wait, what branches off the Ob?"
"I have no idea."
"Irtysh... no, frick, which one goes east, then? Damn you, Russia!"
-I bother a friend with my efforts. She seems less than deeply interested :)

EGYPT

sorry 'bout that, yeah, I can't do the map anymore it's gonna be really hard to do and right now I'm starting my Art Course at College so I need my art hands free for doing art based stuff, I can't post any pics of what I'ma be using but sufficed to say I'ma go for a mob look of lightly armed soldiers, I think we should go Medieval like 1000-1200ish, alright I'm off to bed now, night night...

yeah, it was in Aust. complete with drums, a great shakeing bit of ground, another chant intermixed with it... very cool.

on the subject of languages: angerman gets even messyer than it's alphabet... prepositions are prefixes, there's suffixes or prefixes [i'd have to check] to denote if something is in verb, noun, adjective, or adverb form, ownership and plurality have sufixes [including on pronouns] .. the list goes on.

on the other hand, it has a decided lack of Exceptions to it's rules :D

as for the map: someone posted a large blank one earlyer [was that you?] find roughly the right places, draw some lines, use a fill tool, and vola, instant political map :D

Lol,

We were in a LARGE PT Rp before, i hope this gets like that..always somthing to involve yourself in...

Then it turned into a large alliance with the intent to crush a hostille nation in Austraillia...then a player who had claimed China started to invade Japan while everyone was busy down south, those who were making the combined efforts in the south were unaware that Japan, their allie was being invaded...became quite hectic.

:)

Fun though....

I think this will be fun...

interesting little bit of trivia: the language i use for Angermanland is umm... much older than how long i've used nationstates.

bah... all the files are on the other computer... i belive there was a suffix for "one who [verb]s" which could only be used on a verb.

oh, yeah... baseforms... that was annoying. if the base form of a word is a verb, it didn't get the verb suffix, same with nouns, adjectives, etc... might ditch that in favour of always having the suffix...

then there was the whole subject/object bit of the sentance structure....

hehe. creating that language was both fun and a pain...

i'm thinking the hawks will be "discovered" dureing the course of the RP again. probibly early, but meh *shrugs*

The Hawks were cool shit,

I'll make some kind of Anti-hawk defence system....Lol :)

I have an idea already...i think,

The Hawks were cool shit,

I'll make some kind of Anti-hawk defence system.... :)

I have an idea already...

i'm guessing it would take a few battles before it became useable properly.

and i fully intend to get max psychological effect out of them to begin with: night fighting, music/chanting, 'shriekers' [remember those? hehehehee], fire bombs... no explosives, sadly, but acid is still all good :D

yay! found the files. now i can enter the language bit :D

I remember those guys,

Intimidating......

But so are my heavy cavelry and colourful knights :)

My Infantry is well equiped and disiplined, battle ready :)

My archers, well they are good...

And my Castle, it's a tough nut to crack..

**Muhahahha*

I remember those guys,

Intimidating......

But so are my heavy cavelry and colourful knights :)

My Infantry is well equiped and disiplined, battle ready :)

My archers, well they are good...

And my Castle, it's a tough nut to crack..

**Muhahahha*

the archers are a potentual problem.

... and i can't justify sulpherbombs. drat. those would be nasty against a castle. ahh well, hawks still make good infultration troopys.

actually, good longbowmen are the only real danger to hawks, and that's mostly on the attack run... well, thsoe and well placed/maned/built balista... and rifles.

hehe. you knowi'm going to get rockets eventauly too.

check out my fact book, such as it is: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11674823#post11674823

... you just KNOW that's going to get bigger :D

i hate segies anyway. ... the Art of War will make some sort of apperance in some form, wait and see. hehe. my guys won't fight seiges if they can help it. heck, if they can win wihtout fighting at all, they'll jump at the chance :D

note how many of my tactics and strategys revolved around keeping the enemy Alive after they were beaten? alive and well off so they wouldn't revolt, no less :D

My walls in the event my castle is attacked will be covered with archers, i have archer reserves close by aswell. The way my castle is layed out is perfect for covering all positions, the narrow walkway to my gates can be easily covered from above from pretty much every position...

And i got the seperate wall that defends the left side which reaches out into my moat so archers can rain hell down where other postions cannot with ease..

Im sure you seen the picture....

Just to refresh your memory...

Castle Baird:
http://www.today.ucla.edu/2003/images/030225beaum2.jpg

Im very proud of it..

:)

Correct me if this is badly wrong!

Er, for that matter, suggest minor tweaks, too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Chivtv/NS1/ptrpworldmap2qy.jpg

argh. i KNEW i forgot to put some stuff in my fact book: heraldry being a major thing... the law bit will have to wait untill Terra gets back though. i discused it with him and can't remember half of it..


reguarding the castle... umm... ouch.


hehe. i'd probibly besige it more with an interest in keeping your troops in than in actually takeing the castle, while i spread the rest of my army out and round about to actually do useful things :D

that and, you know, drag up the trebuchets :D i love those things. next best thing to a 12 pounder field gun on my list of "mawahahahahahah! awsome weaponary!"

oh yeah, my infantry's backup blades are Very reminisent of the Eel blades, and the halbardiers are ment to function as something halfway between my old rock troops and my wheel troops.

i might end up adjusting that to give myself some Actual rock style troops, but *shrugs*

a good thing about castles: they dont' MOVE ... one can plan around them :D

bah, somethin fouled up in the system there. added heraldry to my factbook.

anyways.. on the map: i had not realised my claim was so big, but most of the stuff in the north is pretty much worthless anyway. might want to mark capitals if you can, and Toopoxia stopped in briefly to claim egypt.

also: labels on the teritory might be good. *ponders* and Angermanland should realy be black or white, but red is a good third choice.

oh, and our border....umm.... i forsee significant desputes over the nature of the curve in the middle [my guys would argue that it would be straighter, or possibly bend into what is currently Your territory :P] but that's just potentual good RP fun :D

oh yes, and to the east of the caspian sea, our borders should not meet... it's fairly straight from the southern point of urals to the northern part o fthe caspian sea. not much of a bufferzone, but it's there.

did Terra sight britain as a possiblity somewhere along the way for his location? i think he did... we'll ask him when he gets back :D

I would have troops to meet yours of course :) if it ever comes to that, Heavy Cavelry, Infantry...Still under the cover of my walls though in range of my archers...

Also..regarding the map..

I need the islands around Italy aswell.....please

I would have troops to meet yours of course :) if it ever comes to that, Heavy Cavelry, Infantry...Still under the cover of my walls though in range of my archers...

Also..regarding the map..

I need the islands around Italy aswell.....please

hehe. i actually HAVE hevy cavalry this time around. and ranged infantry. and iron. and horses... yeah. hehe. much better off, though with less odd quirks.

and light too.

not to mention i'd be smart and make my circle further out... and refuse to engage close in...

i'm smart like that. what good is a castle to me, but a place to be traped by an enemy in turn?

'walls are like a nose around a city's neck' and so on.

heh. i'm more inclinde to pull a "castle in a day" stunt and build wooden forts on the field of battle [or potentual field] while my troops are there, then dismantle it as i leave [given the chance]

All right, I'll tweak the map. I did try to put our capitals on, actually, but they're only visible on the full-size map, which is a bit of a page-breaker. We'll see what I can do with that.
Why am I still drinking? The night is clearly over! Ach.

If anyone wants to fight my PT equivalent, they're welcome to. I'll take on anyone.

Umm, i like how you think...

I will have small fortifyed positions throughout my countryside, outposts...some towns will have a garrision and what not. My colourful knights will be doing patrols of the countryside often aswell, they have dispatch riders who ride light to pass the message on to the nearest large force.

The majority of my mounted troops are VERY heavily armored, my heavy cavelry are Gothic Knights.

My capital is called Apollo

If anyone wants to fight my PT equivalent, they're welcome to. I'll take on anyone.

got a factbook for it? i'm vaguely interested :P

I'll pass, im not ready to fight yet..i want this Rp to launch soon...

You can build a castle where your army rests -the Romans did- but its value compared with a lasting fortress depends on the situation. There's a difference between offence and defence, between fighting a rebellion and annexing a new province, between fighting a primitive tribe and a rival empire.

Castles like Osteia's weren't built for no reason. If you try to bottle his forces up and then send your army off to campaign in his lands... the army in the castle will sally forth, wipe-out the token siege force you left behind, and come up on your main armies from the rear. If you lay siege to a position containing an actual army, you do it with an army. If your army leaves to do other things... the siege is over, the castle worked, and you failed!

THis sounds interesting, but my choice for past tech would be the Middle Ages....

Umm, i like how you think...

I will have small fortifyed positions throughout my countryside, outposts...some towns will have a garrision and what not. My colourful knights will be doing patrols of the countryside often aswell, they have dispatch riders who ride light to pass the message on to the nearest large force.

The majority of my mounted troops are VERY heavily armored, my heavy cavelry are Gothic Knights.

humm. it occurse to me that knights tended to be land owners, so spent a fair bit of time dealing with pesants and the like when not called up for campagine season. heck, some of hte pooerer ones worked the fields themselves in harvest season. so while that works in some places at some times, it won't work in all places at all times. [the patrols of the country side, that is]

disturbingly, i'm thinking my lanse are a better counter for your heavy cav than my Destre... disturbing little thought, that.

of course, even the heaveiest cav has problems when facing formed halbardiers.

guess what the bulk of my infantry are? hehehehe.

also, those modified balista might provide an interesting effect on the field of battle. ... and i'm guessing those heavy cav are going to be expensive to fit out and so on, so there won't be a lot of them in any one place, no?

... i had more to say, but one of my buddys is distracting me with talk of spaceflight sims :D

THis sounds interesting, but my choice for past tech would be the Middle Ages....

hehe. if you look at what the Ralish, Osteia, and I are orginizeing, it mostly IS middle ages. :D

I think it is middle ages, afew of us have it all worked out...we need the others to agree! soooo many good ideas! hours of replying and posting...

Thats true...that castle can hold out for a LONG time, but i hope it don't have to come down to that for awhile....

They are not actual knights, my heavy cavelry....they just look like Gothic knights...they wear the same armor...

And expencive...

Hell yes!

My cavelry are expencive aswell! plates, chainmail, other peices of armor for various parts of the body, all wear Templar helmets, the ones my infantry wear are slightly different. My knights are VERY colourful and impressive looking, the finest of armor, each with an aid that carrys their banner.

You can build a castle where your army rests -the Romans did- but its value compared with a lasting fortress depends on the situation. There's a difference between offence and defence, between fighting a rebellion and annexing a new province, between fighting a primitive tribe and a rival empire.

Castles like Osteia's weren't built for no reason. If you try to bottle his forces up and then send your army off to campaign in his lands... the army in the castle will sally forth, wipe-out the token siege force you left behind, and come up on your main armies from the rear. If you lay siege to a position containing an actual army, you do it with an army. If your army leaves to do other things... the siege is over, the castle worked, and you failed!

yes and no.

in any open battle, a small castle/fort/thing is helpful. an anchering point, if you will. i tend towards a solid and static center, with highly mobile flank elements, and this helps with that.

heh. if he's fool enough to get his forces mostly in his castle there, i WOuld leave the bulk of my army besigeing it. however, has it' surved it's purpose if i back off far enough to let him out, and build a temporary castle on the main supply rout, while blockading secondary ones? i then force him to attack me. and i can do it with a smaller force. say i were to use one third to form this defensive cordon, one third to go of and do other things, and one third hiding in ambush, just waiting to assult his castle while his troops are out dealing with my defensive force? humm?


there are many elements at play here. a castle may win a battle. but it can very easily lose you a war. or vice versa. a castle's gratest achivement, actually, is stopping an enemy from advanceing.... if i leave them there and just go around it, one could equily argue that it has Failed, as they must leave it's protection to come and fight me :D

ok, so they're not land owners... your state/ruler/whatever is financing their gear....

which would tend towards having even Less of them, by my logic *shrugs* though that would depend where the rest of your army came from and the doctrine available, obviously

Land owners and the castle owner, Lord Baird, pay them...i guess they will be subject to The Relish's king,...but very organzied, they are Ostians :)

The nation just took a turn for the worst after the Empire crashed, it rose back up after this though..

Ostia is without an Emperor or king, there are many lords, counts, dukes,barrons all throughout the lands...

Each lord and landowner has his own men which follow their commands, Lord Baird is very well respected and well known...he is the leading figure at this point in time....

He commands the nations actual army....

Well, a castle is clearly in his home territory. The supply-lines are [i]mostly[/] your concern, his supplies being sourced relatively locally. I think, more importantly, he doesn't need an army to garrison a castle, just a small force that must always be a tactical worry on the best bit of tactical land in the area. I suppose that it just makes sure that, in his land, he always has the highground wherever he chooses to give battle. And you don't ever get to choose the battlefield. It's just an advantage, a force-multiplier of the day, not a totally independent strategy, perhaps.

Bleh, no point rambling on about that, now! We'll find out as the RPs unfold, I suppose!

Anyway, yeah, knights will have to be an elite. If we hire them, we'll seek to buy the services of a knight, a well-to-do man with his own armour and weapons, in exchange for ownership of the land on which he lives... so long as he can promise the services of peasant soldiers from that land.

Land owners and the castle owner, Lord Baird, pay them...i guess they will be subject to The Relish's king, Mercenaires more less...but very organzied, they are Ostians :)

The nation just took a turn for the worst after the Empire crashed, it rose back up after this though..

Ostia is without an Emperor or king, there are many lords, counts, dukes,barrons all throughout the lands...

Each lord and landowner has his own men which follow their commands, Lord Baird is very well respected and well known...he is the leading figure at this point in time....

time for a factbook :D

Land owners and the castle owner, Lord Baird, pay them...i guess they will be subject to The Relish's king, Mercenaires more less...but very organzied, they are Ostians :)

The nation just took a turn for the worst after the Empire crashed, it rose back up after this though..

Ostia is without an Emperor or king, there are many lords, counts, dukes,barrons all throughout the lands...

Each lord and landowner has his own men which follow their commands, Lord Baird is very well respected and well known...he is the leading figure at this point in time....

Ah, that's interesting. Direct imperial authority collapsed because the Osteians found that their military technology was superior, and they could resist... but now so many people are competing for control that no one alone is powerful enough to beat the empire. So whoever wins the riches of the Empire's favour has a clear edge over his rivals.

... a castle does not containe it's own farms, and does not always have good water supplies... a besiged castle has at least as many supply issues as an attacking army.

as for chooseing a battle field.. wel, there are many factors, but the bulk of the time one Can refuse to fight in a location that is a disadvantage to one. and draw the enemy along too, i fyou do it right.. but yes, we shall see how it goes, oh yes.. MWAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH!

Yes, but, of course, castles are typically built in the optimal places at which battle may be given.

Anyway, Ralish castles are relatively few, when it comes to that scale (we've a lot of regional forts and semi-fortified palaces and such), and they tend to be less advanced, in some ways. But, like the Hittites, they have supplies and methods of acquiring fresh water months, even years into a siege, even of a city with tens of thousands of residents.

We have many weaknesses against such opponents as you lot, but more than a few strengths, as well. The Empire may no longer be expanding, but shrinking it past a certain point will be a major task.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Chivtv/NS1/ralishmapnew.jpg

Not great, but borders tweaked a little, and perhaps you can just about see the capitals of the Ralish and Angermanland capitals? Those little dots! Bah.

Anyway, I probably misunderstood where the Anger.. capital was to be placed, but this is a forum for perfecting such things, eh...

Osteia was left without a leader after the revolution against the emperor who ignored the rights and freedoms of his people, lords of the lands banded togeather and over threw him. Lord Baird is seen as a capible leader but some would disagree for their own reasons, although if he needed assistance others would side with him.

Osteia needs to be reunited as one. Lord Baird restored order to most of the nation, he has many people under him who see great leadership qualities, Ostian military is a tradition and remain loyal as they did in the days of the legions which have been disbanded, Baird owns large portions of land that he claimed or was passed down to him and offered many ex legionaires, soldiers homes, farms, and a place in his military service.

If they are brought together the nation will rise once again. If Baird can do somthing that benifits everyone..an alliance or somthing of the sort others will join him....

Not great, but borders tweaked a little, and perhaps you can just about see the capitals of the Ralish and Angermanland capitals? Those little dots! Bah.

Anyway, I probably misunderstood where the Anger.. capital was to be placed, but this is a forum for perfecting such things, eh...

actually, i think that's as close as you can get on this scale. though i Was under the impression that that point was further within my own borders. humm. must be something to do with the type of projection used or something.

This sounds like it's getting interesting. I'm new so I should probably keep a diminished sideline role here, but I'd like to follow along and learn a few things.

My nation is a blank slate, so I have nothing to just transfer over to this scenario.

How about I manage one of the many conquered ethnic groups conscripted into military service in the Ralish's empire? We have been relatively loyal to the empire over the centuries, but still maintain a strong cultural identity partially evolved to include its position within the empire. Like the Catalans in Spain or the Welsh in the UK. We can also specialise as a certain military unit. Mounted archers or some other kind of light cavalry would be my choice if that's okay.
If the empire grows weak, a leader could emerge or a cultural revival could start to bolster national identity and have us attempt to break away. I also like the idea of national religious movement coming at odds with the imperial order.

What do you think?

actually, that's a Very good idea. of course, it's ultimately up to the Ralish weither you can have a bit of his nation or not. hehe.... the plot thickens, that it does.

i'm transfering stuff from the old PT version of Angermanland mostly to save myself hassle...

if you'd belive it, that was my FIRST RP on nationstates, and my first of this kind... umm... anywhere. well, 'cept for a little bit of fiddling around with a modern/post modern tech version of Angermanland that never got beyond the "hello, we exist, lets build embasies" phase, where it was realy hard to tell if anything was IC or OoC. but yeah, it was definatly my first full scale RP... and apparantly Terra's first [or one of his first .... (low single didget number)] as well, if i remember correctly [ask him when he comes back] hehe. be entertained :D

actually, the most disapointing part of that whole endevour was that my exploritory expidition kind of fell over. [they were ment to curcumnavigate the globe]

i'm getting distracted and rambling again. Anyways....

it is a good idea indeed, Aridris, and yes, it IS very interesting :D

humm... if it helps any, i started off with a sort of an idea of what i wanted to do and a lot of different theorys. some of them i was [disabused?] of very quickly, some proved surprisingly good.

the original Angermanland was very much shaped by the resorces available [no iron, but plenty of sulpher and glass making materials, wood, and greenstone lead to wood/leather armor, sulpher bombs, grenades, and other weird oddness. just for example] so the resorces available to a nation are a significant companant.

how detailed the political system is or isn't is up to you, but anything of significance [dissatisfied nobles, democracy, etc] should probibly be mentioned. ummm.. yeah. if you have an interesting idea, run with it. you'll never know where you'll end up.

be careful not to try anything that fouls up the RP though. for example, balista are readily available in this era. the chinese and so on have already got their man carrying kites and so on... add an interesting invetor and a sufficiantly advantagious system, and thus i can justify my hawks. muskets, on the other hand, would stuff everything up and really can't be justified. at a [very large] streatch you might be able to justfie large and horrificly useless seige cannon later on. and i'm not sure how you'd do it.

actually, it disturbs me that, upon further examination, a lot of my really nifty stuff that i created for the NZ version of Angermanland... is far harder to justify in a Russian angermanland..... on the other hand i have iron and horses. it's astonishing how much you miss steal weapons and armor, and having cavalry when you haven't got them.

anyway, yeah. the enviroment and ones neighbours, resorce availability, and past enviroment play Huge roles in how a nation developes. as does the terran.

ugh... i'll stop. i lost what i was trying to say again.

oh yeah, interesting thing to keep in mind when working out battles:

in a melee, before takeing into account other factors such as troop types and stratigy/tactics...

the odds of winning are thus [roughly]:

(quantity^2)Xquality : (quantityofenemy^2)Xqualityof enemy

in as much as one can give a numerical value to quality.

EGYPT!!!!

I CLAIM EGYPT!!!

Yessum, Egypt, it'll be fun to RP, i'm thinking if we're setting this in 1000 then I can RP the last few days of Lexin who's like this kikass Conqueror dude who reunified Folitonia (Volitaia) as the Toopoxians and became the first Emperor, but that's all just history compared to the PYGMALION SOLDIERS!!! But that's not important in this RP...

hehe. and people think I'm the odd one *laughs*

Soo...whens this ready to go..lol, im kinda egar to start Rping.

Also, afew more people should join....

I'd liek to play if you guys are doing Medeviel tech

It is...i really hope...

got a factbook for it? i'm vaguely interested :P

No, I never needed one. If you're familiar with MT me, you can be assured that PT me is slightly different, just without guns and tanks. My heirarchy still is the same - Temsplaces, Sadicistra, Sirens.

No, I never needed one. If you're familiar with MT me, you can be assured that PT me is slightly different, just without guns and tanks. My heirarchy still is the same - Temsplaces, Sadicistra, Sirens.

yeah, see, thing is.... i'm not :)

realy depends. if you're wanting to get into this larger thing that we seem to be working up to, you'll probibly need a fact book... it'll end up being the main IC thread for stuff in your area of influence as well, you see [though major wars often get their own threads]




anyways, on a different note: we currently have [definatly] Myself, Ralish, Osteia, Toops[it would appear :P] and have Terra, Rodenka, and, what, possibly Jenrack interested as well?

make up a fact book [it need not be as huge as mine or the Ralish's, but the more detailed it is the less issues come up later. you can always update it as you go :)] and stake a claim on the map

i figure we can get this going if we have another... what, two people on the map [and with factbooks] who Arn't part of the Ralish empire? then we'd be good to go :)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11678005

Toopoxican factbook, I've not got round to a History but the meat is there.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11678005

Toopoxican factbook, I've not got round to a History but the meat is there.

and this reminds me of plenty of stuff i have yet to put in my fact book... off we go to enlarge it still further :D pretty shiney.

So, Toopoxia's in Egypt, then? What sort of representation would you like me to stick on the map? I mean, in a way, the Egyptian Empire at its height only really included a thin strip of land up the Nile, and some coastal land up into the Middle East, and then there's the modern boxy Egyptian state with a lot of virtually pointless desert. What shall I colour? Do you want your influence to extend up into what would now be Israel and such, to border the Ralish Empire?

Aridiris, I'm perfectly happy with that, yeah. I consider that The Ralish Empire frequently deploys light cavalry -especially since chariots started to fall out of favour- but I've never really tried to explain the origin or exact nature of said cavalry. Any particular part of the Empire you'd like to represent? Much of mainland Turkey is the Alshorian homeland, but all other bits are supposed to have been conquered down the ages, and some, like Osteia's Italy, have since become semi-independent. Denmark, Germany, the Balkans, Persia, the Caucasus, Syria et cetera, wherever's good for you...

Are Jenrak and Rodenka on-board, too? Where abouts should I stick you guys on the map?

Anything else going on?

I'm quite impressed by the group we've already got interested!

Another quick reminder that if anyone else wants to take-over cartography, I don't mind, just shout.

An issue, if I may: population. At various times in the past I have played with a population of around 23 million, or 1% of that listed on my NS page (so, about 48 million, at the moment? I can't remember). Looking at one quick source, I see estimates of 300 million world population in the year 0, and hardly any more than that in the year 1,000, with the Roman Empire at its peak containing conservatively 65 million and by some estimates 130 million people! Those figures would suggest that my own ideas for the Ralish Empire might be a bit light!

Of course, I intend to have the Empire keep a few figures: a total population including the likes of the Osteian people and other such subordinates, a total controlled directly from Azaria (the imperial capital), and a total for Alshor-proper. The first two figures will be a lot more impressive on papyrus than in practice, of course, as X-million of the total will give us as much trouble as benefit...

I might say that Alshor has a population of a few million, I don't know, perhaps seven or a little more? And the whole Empire looks likely to be more than ten times that.

Wow, this has really become more popular! Even if a lot of the posts are from the same people *cough*OstiaAngermanlandRalishToopoxia*cough* we do seem to have a substantial membership now.

My claim depends on what Terror does a bit. Since I believe we're making similar nations, a war between us would be kind of annoying/pointless, and an alliance when we're close to each other would result in limited expansion opportunities. Therefore, if Terror claims Britain (Which I hope) then I'll take Japan and some combination of East Asian territories, but if he wants Indonesia then I'll either go for the Mexico-area island that I did in the PT RP, or Britain myself.

Regardless of location, Caladonn will be pretty similar. I'm hugely navally and ranged-focused, with many dozens of cogs and regiments of longbowmen marines, but barely any standing army and very few castle-type defences. Caladonn relies on its navy for pretty much everything, as it says in my sig- I try to follow the example of Napoleonic Britain and how it annoyed Napoleon.

As for civilian stuff, I'm a Republic based on the Ancient Roman model, with excellence in shipbuilding, engineering, architecture, and that sort of thing but little interest in the finer arts, such as philosophy or theater.

Osteia does not have a very good navy, it's average..most of our money and men go into our land armys, their equipment is VERY expencive....

As it's always been.....

I will have a factbook up soon...stand by...

Caladonn, the RP seems to be shaping up to be pretty euro-centric at the moment. mabey take britain, seeing as how you're here Now and Terra is not? then it doesn't depend on a thing. he won't be back for a while anyway, yah?

i note that your nation appears to be a direct port of your old one, yah? *grins* if you check my fact book, you'll probibly find more differences than similaritys between the old and new Angermanland... enviroment really Does have a huge impact on a nation.

it has been pointed out to me that i have claimed Very good horse land... perhaps i should adjust my forces proportions to give more cavalry? i dunno.

no real navy for me this time around.

i forsee conflict wtih the Ralish over that bulg in our mutual borders at some point :D it'd be nice to have some other colours on the map appart fromt eh big green blob and myself.

anyways, on a different note: we currently have [definatly] Myself, Ralish, Osteia, Toops[it would appear :P] and have Terra, Rodenka, and, what, possibly Jenrack interested as well?

make up a fact book [it need not be as huge as mine or the Ralish's, but the more detailed it is the less issues come up later. you can always update it as you go :)] and stake a claim on the map

i figure we can get this going if we have another... what, two people on the map [and with factbooks] who Arn't part of the Ralish empire? then we'd be good to go :)

I'm too good for a factbook ^^

But in all seriousness, I would prefer to keep my military quite distinctly unknown for now in the PT form. Trust me, I will keep things realistic in terms of numbers and such, don't worry.

I'm too good for a factbook ^^

But in all seriousness, I would prefer to keep my military quite distinctly unknown for now in the PT form. Trust me, I will keep things realistic in terms of numbers and such, don't worry.

... why does this not fill me with confidance? *laughs* simple enough, don't put your military into the fact book. the fact of the matter is, there is a whole bunch of information that Needs to be available to other people, if only to stop more interesting manouvers seem like godmoding when their not, or to catch things that are... list goes on.

on the other hand, i can see why you wouldn't want to make one, in a way...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=479752&highlight=Masslation

My politics are exactly the same as my MT form. The difference is weapon and technology level.

*is profoundly disturbed*

congratulations. you masssivly outdo me on factbook post length.... and many other things. yeash. if you were thinking of something That massive, i can see why you wouldn't want to make a new fact book *laughs*

i phear. i phear with much phear. gah... words fail me.

*head shakey*

Aridiris, I'm perfectly happy with that, yeah. I consider that The Ralish Empire frequently deploys light cavalry -especially since chariots started to fall out of favour- but I've never really tried to explain the origin or exact nature of said cavalry. Any particular part of the Empire you'd like to represent? Much of mainland Turkey is the Alshorian homeland, but all other bits are supposed to have been conquered down the ages, and some, like Osteia's Italy, have since become semi-independent. Denmark, Germany, the Balkans, Persia, the Caucasus, Syria et cetera, wherever's good for you...


Great! I'll take the Caucases. Good place for semi-nomadic horsemen, I think. I'll get started on a cultural profile. How long ago would you say this region was conquered?

Hmmm... Is this PT RP still taking people in? I wouldn't like to skimm through all of this thread right now, so if someone could give a brief summary of what has been decided, what areas claimed and so on, that would be greatly apperiated.

Hmmm... Is this PT RP still taking people in? I wouldn't like to skimm through all of this thread right now, so if someone could give a brief summary of what has been decided, what areas claimed and so on, that would be greatly apperiated.

you would only really need to read the last 2-4 pages. anyway, upshot of it all: we're going to do a medievil RP. there's a map somewhere in the thread [far from complete] and if you look back in those last few pages you'll find links to my fact book and the Ralish's fact book. they're good examples of the kind of things that are needed.

there aren't a whole lot of hard and fast rules, and i really do not expect it to be even vaguely historicaly accurate... the nations are all ficticious, after all. however, the main one is 'keep it plauseable' that is, realistic. but if you can justify your guys aquireing some oddball tech within the frame of the RP [that is, midievil tech, humans [or races who may as well be human, really], no weird time travel effects or aliens or anything like that. examples of that would be the old version of PT angermanland. it was based in New Zealand, and as such had plenty of access to what it needed for makeing glass, and sulpher gass, and all sorts of odd things, but had no iron, horses, or bows. as a result you ended up with infantry going into battle armed with stone swords, wooden bladed staves, and grenades [made of glass and filled with all sorts of nastys]

things like that.

i Hope that's helpful. i have trouble explaining this kind of RP. it seems to be very much you get it or you don't. it's certainly not a 'by the numbers' statistics and rules based thing.

makes use of fluid, rather than scaled, time as well.

edit: and, heck yeah we're still taking people :)

if you're good, or at least not really horrible to play with, at any rate :) god modeing is evil. and you really do need to remember taht troops don't like standing and fighting while fire rains on their heads from the sky :D

and you really do need to remember taht troops don't like standing and fighting while fire rains on their heads from the sky :D

Except the Spartans. One of my favourite war quotes of all time:

Before the battle of Thermopylae between the Greeks and the Persians, when told that the Persians had so many archers that their arrows blocked out the sun, a Spartan soldier famously replied "all the better, we can fight in the shade."

Except the Spartans. One of my favourite war quotes of all time:

Before the battle of Thermopylae between the Greeks and the Persians, when told that the Persians had so many archers that their arrows blocked out the sun, a Spartan soldier famously replied "all the better, we can fight in the shade."

yeah, i ment litteral fire.... dropped by gliders.... probbibly at night. gliders which make a horific screaching sound when they dive. while the entire enemy army is chanting in what, i freely admit, is a Very freaky manner.

there's fearing [or not fearing] what one knows and understands. then there is the fear, or lack there of, of the disturbing, new, and unknowen :D

So, Toopoxia's in Egypt, then? What sort of representation would you like me to stick on the map? I mean, in a way, the Egyptian Empire at its height only really included a thin strip of land up the Nile, and some coastal land up into the Middle East, and then there's the modern boxy Egyptian state with a lot of virtually pointless desert. What shall I colour? Do you want your influence to extend up into what would now be Israel and such, to border the Ralish Empire?

From the Sinai Peninsula to Lake Nasser but never going over the Nile, I know it's small but the way I'm RPing it my nation only arrived in Egypt like 20 years ago.

Great concept you guys have here! I especially like the fact that people are ready to really have some serious disadvantages, instead of trying to just outclass eachother in the very beginning in terms of technology and such. Reallydrunk's (Rreat to see you again, btw! Too long since our last RP together...) army is clearly the strongest at the moment, but his country is internally weak and lacking strong central government, Ralish Empire is massive and rich but has obsolete military, and so on.

Very promising this far.

Now, I would like to claim a place in the sun for my people, Madnestians. Their area, Madnestan, stretches from the Lake Balhas (the banana-like lake east from Aral) to the Northern banks of Indus in the Karakoram-Kashmir region. It'd cover nowadays Kirgisia, Tadzikistan and the North-East "peninsula" of Afghanistan, Pakistan's Kashmir and China's westernmost mountains, those that border the Uigur Desert.
In short form: somewhat triangular area, about Balhas-wide (the lake being the Northern border) and spreading towards South, Southern border being the Indus from the border of Ralish Empire to the sources of the great river.

So, almost nothing but mountains, with the exception of that little piece of steppes in the North. From here come the grim and violent "Wolfmen" (as they're called by most of their neighbours and enemies) that Madnestians are. They're tall, strong, and have messy black beards. Rather unfriendly-looking people. Madnestians live in clan-based society, raise cattle (mostly sheeps), harras, deprive and loot their neighbours, but first and foremost: serve as mercenaries of the Ralish Empire (if that's ok? I know I'm not the only one doing this, but I think it'd fit in right well. Like in many cases, the militarily declining giant is forced to rely on hired foreign swords... and in the time of crisis, this can make things really interresting, like when you happen to run out of gold to pay them or something... ;) ). They have a small class of "nobles" (=people who can afford horses and the expencive equipment that the status requires) who act as middle-heavy cavalry (=armed&look pretty much like samurais, except that they have claymores instead of katanas) and live usually in castles of their clan's kings. They're called Utagais 1.Castlemen because of this.

Madnestian "Wolfmen" usually wear quite well made armour - strengthened leather, chainmail - and use massive battleaxes and claymoreish swords to cut their way through the enemy ranks. Besides these they usually have short composite bows (copied from their Northern cousins who live in the steppes between Balhas and their mountains) to use before the melee begins.
When in battle, they fear nothing, and aren't really as ill-disciplined and unorganized one could perhaps suppose.

All in all, they're basically somewhat meaner version of highlanders with some German additions, and a Japanese nobility with the Way of The Warrior, honour code and all that stuffy. They don't have a Great King at the moment - only few dozens of smaller ones - but sometimes an exceptionally skilled and powerful clan leader, usually someone who has succeeded as a mercenary general and gained prestige among other clans too when leading their warriors in foreign armies (=The Empire's), manages to gain enough power to claim the throne of The Great King, and even temporarily unite the country.
No long term dynasties have ever been formed, though.

The greatest (and pretty much the *ONLY* city in Madnestan is Durruti, located at the Southern bank of Lake Issyk-Kul (the one South from Balhas), but it can hardly be called as capital.
I haven't thought about the population or any other numbers yet... Need to think about that a bit. But otherwise, is this ok with everyone?

EDIT: Oh, and few pics of course!

Tamtam Fire-Eye of the Black Blood Brotherhood's warrior cult (http://www.pvkii.com/images/artwork/berserker.jpg),
King Shutar of the Wide Blade's clan, (http://www.therebelution.com/uploaded_images/viking_warrior-765290.jpg)
Romer, famous Utagai of the Sabreteeth clan. (http://www.propstore.com/images/products/638/battle.jpg)

So, almost nothing but mountains, with the exception of that little piece of steppes in the North. From here come the grim and violent "Wolfmen" (as they're called by most of their neighbours and enemies) that Madnestians are. They're tall, strong, and have messy black beards. Rather unfriendly-looking people. Madnestians live in clan-based society, raise cattle (mostly sheeps), harras, deprive and loot their neighbours, but first and foremost: serve as mercenaries of the Ralish Empire (if that's ok? I know I'm not the only one doing this, but I think it'd fit in right well. Like in many cases, the militarily declining giant is forced to rely on hired foreign swords... and in the time of crisis, this can make things really interresting, like when you happen to run out of gold to pay them or something... ). They have a small class of "nobles" (=people who can afford horses and the expencive equipment that the status requires) who act as middle-heavy cavalry (=armed&look pretty much like samurais, except that they have claymores instead of katanas) and live usually in castles of their clan's kings. They're called Utagais 1.Castlemen because of this.

Madnestian "Wolfmen" usually wear quite well made armour - few plates, strengthened leather, mostly chainmail - and use massive battleaxes and claymoreish swords to cut their way through the enemy ranks. Besides these they usually have short composite bows (copied from their Northern cousins who live in the steppes between Balhas and their mountains) to use before the melee begins.
When in battle, they fear nothing, and aren't really as ill-disciplined and unorganized one could perhaps suppose.

Sounds interesting. Ours being both central Asian steppe peoples we might have some sort of cultural connection, no? Though my people are part of the empire and are therefore conscripts, not mercenaries. In building a cultural profile for my people, it seems absurd that they would not be influenced by the other peoples around them, especially being part of a multi-ethnic emire.

Sorry to nitpick though, but it seems that your warriors are inordinately strong. It's hard enough carrying bows on horseback, but claymores and bows? Of course, not at the same time, but the logistics of changing between two two-handed weapons seems a little unwiedly, not mention the difficulty of just claymores alone, which require far more physical exertion than a small composite bow to wield.

Again, it's great that everything's going well.

I think Madnestan has hit on an excellent point. It's ok to be pre-eminent in something, so long as you have major disabilities in other things. For example, I have practically no army or fortifications, but most likely the largest and most advanced navy in the world, as well as being pretty centralized and all that, though I'm not very big.

Angermanland, yes, I am doing something pretty similar to the previous RP :) I think I actually will take your suggestion and take Britain though. Although the geography of southeast asia, with lots of islands and such, is definitely more suited to Caladonnian expansion, I'd rather be nearer the action so I will take the British Isles, as well as those tiny island chains north of Britain, like the Orkneys, Shetlands and Faroes, and the Channel Islands.

I'm planning on a Viking Empire type thing, since Britain and Ireland was around 1000 AD settled/conquered a lot by Vikings. My plan is simply that the Vikings won back then, and it evolved into a hybrid Norse-Anglo-Saxon-Gaelic culture that is by now pretty homogeneous. I'm going to embark upon a plan to bring the other Vikings of the North into the fold, namely Iceland and Greenland. Eventually a great expedition will take place to Vinland in North America, which was found by Leif Eriksson in around 1000 and during the Middle Ages was still visited by Greenlanders.

As for a more precise military picture, I rely on cogs and longboats for the navy, with caravel sort of things in the not-too-far-but-still-not-close future. Ballistae and longbowmen, as well as more conventional marines are on the ships. As for my miniscule army, which is mainly made up of marines on shore duty, it's also mostly longbowmen, with infantry provided by pikemen and men-at-arms. Caladonnian cavalry is exceedingly miniscule.

Updated history of Toopoxia, didn't mention any nations by name but there are references to Frozopia and Toops, both in the last PT RP, I was gonna mention being for some time part of the Ralish Empire but though I better ask first.

Sorry to nitpick though, but it seems that your warriors are inordinately strong. It's hard enough carrying bows on horseback, but claymores and bows? Of course, not at the same time, but the logistics of changing between two two-handed weapons seems a little unwiedly, not mention the difficulty of just claymores alone, which require far more physical exertion than a small composite bow to wield.

Yea, I thought about this for quite a while but decided to put it like this anyways, 'cuz when you think about it, it really isn't all that illogical. I mean, carrying a big sword, smaller bow and it's arrows isn't too much for a big man. These clansmen don't drag massive columns of suplly wagons with them - they live of the land as much as possible. And what else can you possibly use better for hunting something to eat in mountains and forests, than a compact yet rather strong bow?
These guys aren't anything like the British longbowmen or Mongolian horse archers, but aren't now completely helpless against enemy's skirmishers when nearly all of them carry this sort of a ranged weapon too. Fighting against mounted, bow-using warriors of the steppes has taught this to them - you can't beat a group of horsemen peppering you with arrows by using your sword only. Shields are considered too cowardly for any real man to use, so what option do these mountaineers have, but to learn how to use a bow too?
Besides, as my people knows nothing about engineering, has no boats or navies, very little trade, poor agriculture, no industry, no great cities, temples, palaces or arts... I thought that making them really versatile and fearsome warriors, perhaps individually even the very best of the known world (as units they of course have several weaknesses) wouldn't be too much.

But, if you think this is too much, I can tune down the armour a bit though. Plates atleast don't really fit in there.

hummm. a thought, but perhaps we should start a new thread, with the map and links to each person's factbook/area thread in the first post?

just so we don't have to wade through so much stuff to find any particular bit of information.

madnestan, i've got no problem with how you discribe your people, though i think it would be best to ditch the plate, yes.

all of that stuff, plus a few 'vital statistics' and mabey a little more detail in some areas, would be what's needed in your factbook [which, as i've said before, will, like as not, become the thread for all goings on in your territory/sphere of influence as well]

what i'd Really like is to... umm... NOT be the only nation not part of/allied to the Ralish? *laughs* 'cept Caladonn, but i don't see him being in a position to fight, really :P

what i'd Really like is to... umm... NOT be the only nation not part of/allied to the Ralish? *laughs* 'cept Caladonn, but i don't see him being in a position to fight, really :P

*coToopoxiaugh*

yet.

Few things to catch-up on, I see!

Aridiris, ah, I don't know for how long the Caucasus region would have been in Ralish hands... it's not terribly far from Alshor, but we could have struck west before turning that way. So it could be one of the earliest acquisitions or a relatively recent one, depending on what works for you, really.

I think that it would be good to have a second thread, so we can have the map and maybe links to different nations on the front page, and everybody can keep track. I don't think that I'm sufficiently reliable to look after it all, so I'll wait for someone else to start it :)

All right, so I've updated the map, but, as ever, the representation of the new nations can be changed, working from this base.
Sorry if it looks a bit rough, blame Paint. I've kept a full-size .bmp version which looks much tidier, but saving a display copy as a jpg -to save a kb or eight hundred- does make the borders and rivers a bit less presentable. Ah well, you can see the basics, and if you want better maps you can all make your own! Heh.

I've used light-green for all the territories that Azaria considers part of the Ralish Empire, but which may not entirely agree with that assessment. Everyone else gets their own colour, for now.

Of course, the Americas, Southern Africa, Australasia, and so forth, are only cut-off because as yet nobody's tried to put a nation there. I don't mean to discourage anyone from establishing Great Zimbabwe or something!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Chivtv/NS1/ralishmapnew.jpg

snip

EGYPT!!!

EGYPT!!!

Uh huh...

From the Sinai Peninsula to Lake Nasser but never going over the Nile

You see the yellow bit on the map? If not, maybe try refreshing?

Uh huh...



You see the yellow bit on the map? If not, maybe try refreshing?

Well shit, I see it now, sorry 'bout the imaptience and all, also if you're having bandwidth problems I recomend Imageshack, it doesn't have any limits (to my knowledge) and it's free.

And why is the Han Empire missing from that map? XD

humm... i could start the new thread if it is wanted, but i'd have to request that our cartographer make the second post and put the map in it :P

hehe. the Han is missing because it was never claimed, if i remember rightly. why, you want it? *laughs*

that, and if i remember rightly it was so huge as to be essentually untouchable :P

yay! the map is getting well populated :D

humm... i could start the new thread if it is wanted, but i'd have to request that our cartographer make the second post and put the map in it :P

hehe. the Han is missing because it was never claimed, if i remember rightly. why, you want it? *laughs*

that, and if i remember rightly it was so huge as to be essentually untouchable :P

yay! the map is getting well populated :D

Heh-heh, yea. I believe I controlled all of India, Indo-China, China, Korean Peninsula, and a hefty bit of Manchuria. On top of that allowing me to field more than a million men on the battle field. XD

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/Upum/Han%20Empire/hero_qin_army_4.jpg

Heh-heh, yea. I believe I controlled all of India, Indo-China, China, Korean Peninsula, and a hefty bit of Manchuria. On top of that allowing me to field more than a million men on the battle field. XD

wasn't it something like 3-4 million, but not really all in one place? hehe. it was insane, whichever way it went.

not as insane as some of the ideas i came up with [and discarded before use] but still pretty nuts.

*ponders* if i remember rightly Cao Cao had a 'million man army' at the battle of Chi Bi [red cliffs] and he controled, .... about half of china at the time, mabey less. and that was quite a while before the era we're now playing.

wasn't it something like 3-4 million, but not really all in one place? hehe. it was insane, whichever way it went.

not as insane as some of the ideas i came up with [and discarded before use] but still pretty nuts.

*ponders* if i remember rightly Cao Cao had a 'million man army' at the battle of Chi Bi [red cliffs] and he controled, .... about half of china at the time, mabey less. and that was quite a while before the era we're now playing.

XD.

What is the new era (time) you guys are rp'ing?

... middleages [in europe] i totaly forget what date that is.... no gunpowder, though. well, one could justify rockets after the korean/chinese/Indian fassion, Mabey, but that's about it.

... middleages [in europe] i totaly forget what date that is.... no gunpowder, though. well, one could justify rockets after the korean/chinese/Indian fassion, Mabey, but that's about it.

Ah, my beautiful rockets...*drools into a fantasy land*

Anyway, I will keep note of this rp. I might not join now since I invovled in several others. But, hats off to ya guys. have fun and dont forget to drink the other guys ale when he's not looking.

Fighting against mounted, bow-using warriors of the steppes has taught this to them - you can't beat a group of horsemen peppering you with arrows by using your sword only. Shields are considered too cowardly for any real man to use, so what option do these mountaineers have, but to learn how to use a bow too?
Besides, as my people knows nothing about engineering, has no boats or navies, very little trade, poor agriculture, no industry, no great cities, temples, palaces or arts... I thought that making them really versatile and fearsome warriors, perhaps individually even the very best of the known world (as units they of course have several weaknesses) wouldn't be too much.


Well, you're reasoning certainly makes sense with the bows. But I still can't get my head around someone effectively wielding a claymore on horseback. Those things aren't that much smaller than a man! Anyway though, it's not a big deal.


Thanks Ralish. I'm still working on my factbook. I'll probably finish it sometime tonight. I thinking of a recent conquering, but not fresh.

Shall we give this a name? What will we call the new thread?

a claymore on horseback would work. But, you'd give up the ability to use lances, spears, shields, etc. and where one Put the sword while useing the bow would be interesting.

actually, if i remember rightly a lot of knights Did use pretty big swords. my Destreix don't carry swords Quite that big, but they're large none the less. hehe.

incidently: ever play Final Fantasy 8 or see it? Squall uses a weapon called a Gunblade. . . those were actually made at one point. was a claymore and a pistol. it was absolute rubish, because the pistol was a muzzle loader, and the barrel didn't run along the blade at All. the gun was just built into the handle.

but it existed :D

ehh. probibly call it something unimaginative like "PT Middleages RP OOC thread" or some such.

a claymore on horseback would work. But, you'd give up the ability to use lances, spears, shields, etc. and where one Put the sword while useing the bow would be interesting.

actually, if i remember rightly a lot of knights Did use pretty big swords. my Destreix don't carry swords Quite that big, but they're large none the less. hehe.

Wow, I'd really like to see that. It's certainly possible, but seems too impractical to ever be seriously used in battle. They are two-handed and most mounted knights probably wouldn't be keen on losing control of the reins in close combat, I'd think.

actually, if they Got into close combat like that, odds are good that the horse isn't going anywhere as it's allready lost it's momentum in a melee, and as such keeping control of where the horse goes is less important than staying in your seat and doing damage. but yeah, i think it more likely that they'd tend more towards 'barstard' swords. quit large and heavy, but they were balanced to be used as one handed swords with a shield, Or as two handed swords.

'course, my guys are freaks and use a sword in one hand and a mace in the other :D

the mace is on a cord attached to the inside of their left bracer, so they can drop it to use the sword two handed [or the reignes] without loseing it. downside? they can't switch hands with it.

to be honest, i find pure twohanded swords to be a bit of a daft weapon in any situation. sure, you can take a guy out with one swing, but if it doesn't work because he moved or something, you're going to take taht much longer to come around for another one, meanwhile you've been stabbed. not to mention, it's harder to get a well placed stab in with a two handed sword. the weight and point are in the wrong place compaired to your hands and arm mussles, unless your foe is already on the ground and it's a downward stab.

when it comes to two handed weapons, i prefur something with a shaft. like... a Halbard, for example.

Weird, has nobody tried to make a claim based on ancient Macedonia? That was a dream? Oh, god, that's lame! Haha. I think that means I need to make a point of going out, this weekend.

I must admit, I would struggle to take very seriously reports of million man ancient armies. Perhaps some of the greatest empires would have the theoretical manpower, but, yeah, they couldn't put it in the field in one place. The Ralish Empire sometimes fields armies tens of thousands strong, but within the Empire they tend to empty the granaries along the roads, and outside of it they had to keep moving just to acquire food from the land, and had trouble staying on favourable ground because sitting still could mean starving. Often the Empire conquered with deliberately small armies, moving faster than larger enemies, going through places with too little food for the larger armies to go at all, and waiting it out whenever the enemy did take the best ground, since they'd strip it of food eventually and have to move, only to find that the smaller Ralish army had taken the next-best bit of tactical ground and was small enough to stay there for longer.
Obviously, without mechanisation, even a large supply chain can't move any faster than the army, and indeed tended to get left behind when the Alshorian Guard was marching more than a marathon a day.

Eh, but we all probably understand that sort of thing, there's just not a lot else going on at the moment.

I think that the Alshorian Guard is going to be 15,000 strong. When the situation becomes sufficiently desperate, we may add more men for a 25,000 figure, which will likely cause uproar as the existing Guardsmen resent the influx of non-Alshorians and arguably less-elite troops damaging their reputation and the exclusivity of their brotherhood. But the AG is like... the Immortals or such, just the elite core of any Imperial army around which the subject peoples are gathered.

As for swords, the Ralish favour stabbing to slashing, but some of their cavalry do carry cutting swords, which are curved single-edged one-handed weapons. Obviously many of the peoples called to the King's banner in major crisis will come with their own weapons, even if they don't fit imperial doctrine.

Give us a shout when someone starts the new thread, so I can stick the map over there.

<edit> good grief this post is huge :S err, summery time:
the first part is about different types of swords. then there's a bit about the million man army, then some thoughts on society and how it affects troop numbers and types, and then a bit about the new thread.... make sure you read that bit. </edit>

actually, here's an interesting thing for you: eastern swords are mostly designed to slash and cut.

western swords are mostly designed to stab, or chop [glorified axe, really]... which allowed them to defeat stronger armor, though also caused their opponants to Use stronger armor.

i also think, Ralish, that you're parked on a large part of macidonia, are you not? that might be why no one's tried clameing it.

as for the million man army, it's actually sort of plausable in the situation it came about in. perhaps taht million included some non combantants, but here's the thing: it came togeather in one place mabey once or twice. it did not fight far beyond their own borders. we're talking about China here, it had a largeer than average population even then, and the Vast Bulk of it was totaly [or near totaly] untrained peasant spearmen. [or so i'm lead to belive.]

so yeah, it's not That increadable. possibly a logisitcal nightmare, but i belive Cao Cao [Tsao Tsao] had his soldiers work the land where they were stationed, quite often, thus keeping the land in use even when the pesants fleed warzones, and keeping his troops fed. i also belive there wasn't a whole heck of a lot of cavalry involved.

personaly, i'm having trouble finding a balance with my troop numbers. too low, and i get smashed. too high and it starts running into plausability issues.. then i've got to deal with getting the mix right. for example, i think i have underestimated the number of Lanceix i should have access to, and perhaps over estimated the number of ouhHalbardadeix.

also: Large armys can often actually be slower than their supply wagons. especially if good roads are available, and they set up fortified camps each night. on the march, also, cavalry are actually not that much faster than infantry, and hevey cavalry can even be Slower. of course, short bursts on the battle field, the horse outdoes the foot soldier every time, but on the march? nah. courriers kept their speed up by changing horses regularly. individual scouts might mangage it, mabey even whole squadrons for a short time... but a regiment is the death of march speed on horseback.

a thought that occurs to me: in the middle ages, from what i can gather, at it's PEAK then entire english army, when it mobilised every avalable footsoldier and noble, assumeing noone refused to send troops or payed money instead... would be excessivly lucky to break 100,000 all up. 10 000 men was a LARGE force at any one battle in europe at the time. less so in asia, but then the quality was lower too, for the most part.

here's some things to keep in mind: a fudal system will tend to give you less troops, but they will be better equiped and traind. they will also tend to have Knights makeing up most of their cav.

he more your army draws from the towns and citys, the more hevey foot you'll get. the more it draws from the country side, the more light foot.

archer quality and quantity depends on your society as well. unless it's specificly encouraged [parts of england and wales] or vital for day to day survivle [nomadic hunters, mercenary foot troops] you won't get a lot of archers.

if your nobles can raise/equip their own troops from good horse country, and/or you draw from the wealther type of common folk, you'll get more light horse. if cavalry is mostly the domain of the noble, or your nobles can't afford to equip cavalry units, you'll tend to have more hevey cavalry [though not enough to make up for hte number of light you Don't have, in a lot of ways]. also, societys emphasising chivalry and the noble's duty as a knight will generate more hevey cavalry.

looking back, i'm not sure Exactly how accurate that is, but it is certainly mostly at least along the right lines.

anyway, i assume this new thread is wanted, yes? i shall go create it. if people could post a link to thier fact books [even if they have already done so, so i don't ahve to hunt for it] i'll put those in the first post.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11684224#post11684224

tada!! the new thread.

i would ask that in your factbooks, you link back to That thread for referancing which RP they belong with.

edit: oh yeah, and Ralish, could you stick up the map over there please?

humm. do we want to bounce people through this thread to sign up, or have the potentual clutter in our OOC thread?

Well, even working the land itself, a million man army would be equivalent to the biggest cities on earth, many times bigger than most large cities, at the time. Those cities show that such concentrations of people could exist in ancient times, but of course they imported much food from miles around, and probably had advanced systems in place for acquiring water. An army of that size then needs the same... only it's a moving city. Nightmarish difficulty!

Right, yeah, being the crossroads between east and west, the Ralish have encountered both traditions of warfighting... and of politics, religion, and so on, and transported eastern ideas west, and vice-versa.

Archers seem likely to be a big thing in our world, with many nations counting them a major component of their armies. In our case, the Alshorian Guard has archers trained from childhood, legally obliged to practice and actually disfigured by it, their soft young bones warping slightly under the strain of Alshor's heavy compound bows. These have developed from the horn bows of the eastern enemies we encountered, but said bows were relatively small and shorter at the bottom than the top, making them less accurate and powerful, but enabling them to be shot from the back of a horse.
If a lot of people are thinking more 1,000AD than 0, though most Ralish troops are still much more ancient in nature, we do have stirrups: Alshorian horse archers have full-length bows, and must stand in the saddle to draw them.
There is an almost immeasurably great difference between the AG's archers and the rest of the military's. Hunters raised as archers in time of war have bows of much inferior power, range, and penetration power, and though these archers are obviously skilled in terms of achieving great accuracy, they are not so strong as the AG's archers.
Anyway, yes, you're quite right, I suppose I'm just talking about the difference between a multi-use or hunting bow and a warbow, and, more importantly, the man behind it, anyway. Oh, The Ralish have never embraced the crossbow, by the by.

Yes, Macedonia is within the Empire, but I appear to have dreamed someone claiming it as a vassal with the intention of initiating a rebellion almost right away. Weird!

hehe. my guys archery is Garbage.

i mean, my light horse use bows... the implication given is that they 'borrowed' the idea off the mongols. hehe. but the bows themselves are... really bad. they'd be lucky to go through poor leather armor from the range at which a horse archer is going to engage an enemy...

other than that i don't use bows at All. they use Javalins :D admitedly, augmented with javalin slings. and having the IDEA of the bow is enough for them to have developed reasonable balista.

hehe. not sure if that dream is a good sign or a bad one :D

with the million man army bit, my guess is that what actually happend would have been several 50 000 man armys, for example. perhaps more and smaller. as i said, they were only ever gathered togeather for one battle. [which, incidently, they lost.... to a vastly inferior force, no less :D. chaining your ships togeather so they're stable enough for untrained foot soldiers to fight on kind of renders you horribly vulnerable to fire attacks. Bwahahahah!]

hummm. archery is a big thing in this world because people recognize the value of the english/welsh longbow man, [and, Mostly, recognize that this requires an 'archer society'] and remember that such remaind supperior even to the best infantry guns right up untillt he breach loading rifle became a common military weapon.

people also like the idea of being able to hit the enemy from quite a way away :D

i am mildly surprised at the lack of use of genuin "Knights" for hevey cavalry. you know, long sword, lance, shield, full plate, etc. my Destreix sort of come close, untill you realise how insanely unorthodox they are....

yeah... it's interesting.

About the sword thing - Claymore doesn't need to be excessively massive two handed, really. A Scottish bastard sword can also be described with the name. Or so I've always thought.
Basically, the Wolfmen (=the clan warriors on foot) carry bigger and heavier swords while the Castlemen (=the mounted elitish noble) have somewhat lighter but usually almost equally long swords, and are as skilled with them as the samurais were. They don't use bows, but carry usually long-bladed spears (known as naginata in Japanese) to use before drawing their swords. They don't have shields, and their armour ain't as heavy as the Osetian's knights, for example, have.

And bgtw, I won't propably be able to post before the monday morning. If I'm lucky, perhaps sunday evening. Anyways, keep up the good planning! I can't wait to get the game actually going...:)

Yeah, it's all about the archers isn't it? Whenever I play games like Total War, I always stack up on the archers.

My nation's going to focussing on light cavalry though. Speed is the key. I love speed.

actually, i think you'll find it's momentum, not speed, that wins battles and wars. speed is all well and good, but without weight, is useless. the reverse is also true.

having the right things in the right place at the right time is what wins battles and wars.

hehe. expect many of my charicters to wax poetic in this RP... i dug up a whole bunch of my old poetry, much of which has great potentual to be relivant.

"when one does not care what the enemy does, nothing the enemy doe matters. when one does not care fore objectives, one cannot lose.

'tis insanity, but it works."

Momentum shmobentum!

Speed speed!

"C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre"

Momentum shmobentum!

Speed speed!

"C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre"

try that last bit in english?

"it is magnificant [or great?] [something i forget] [string of prepostions, articals, and negatives] [word i'm not sure i've ever come accross]" was basicly what i got out of it :D

errrrrr......

"A bird in the hand...... is very messy"

errrrrr......

"A bird in the hand...... is very messy"

you what now? *laughs*

"it's so nice to have mortals to play with"

hehehe. to quote a book taht has never been writen, by one of my charicters who will probibly not exist in this rp due to the lack of gunpowder tech:

"some would argue that a gun is better than a sword, or vice versa. this leaves me wondering...

why not have both?"

-Mahkath, 'a destructive decision'

try that last bit in english?

"it is magnificant [or great?] [something i forget] [string of prepostions, articals, and negatives] [word i'm not sure i've ever come accross]" was basicly what i got out of it :D

A famous quote by some French official on the charge of the light brigade during the Crimean War. "It's magnificent, but it's not war."

Anyways, I'm going to bed. I finished history and culture up until the period we're dealing with. But I didn't include dates because I have no idea when we actually start! But it doesn't matter. I'll do military numbers tomorrow, though not being an independent nation (yet) numbers would be difficult to come up with.

The Ralish, check out my factbook and let me know if I did anything grossly uncalled for in writing your nation's history with mine. Basically I just mentioned that you conquered us because we were harassing your borders and that you allow religious freedom. Anything you're not cool with, let me know.

I suppose this thread is being kept for a bit to keep up meaningless banter not worthy of being in the new official OCC thread?

Adios.

pretty much much. that, and tactical/stretegic debate that really has little or nothing to do with the actuall RP. such as the million man army thing, or the bit about castles.

Oh, it looked fine to me, Aridiris.


I've just posted a little snippet of life in the twilight of empire, hoping to paint a wider picture by a specific example. I think that I'll post a view of the capital over the weekend, so everyone knows what they're serving, breaking away from, frightened of, jealous of, or planning to destroy :)

"C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre"

"Doe maar gewoon, dan doe je al gek genoeg"

hows about we provide translations when not speaking english?

hehe. vary nice with the steam powered 'guns' there, Ralish.

i'm not sure how long i'll wait to introduce my hawks. perhaps i could do it now, or i could wait a little... humm... i'm not prone to Starting wars for no good reason... heck, the very nature of my nation makes doing so a challange. got to movtivate the apropriate factions... somehow. *laughs*

i'm trying to work out what my best plan would be.... i Really don't want to go into italy with mostly raw troops at this point.

and i'm going to need some sort of edge if i take on the empire.

britain is pretty much irrelivant to me. i have no navey, they have no army, trade betweent he two is non existant.... i'm cut off from egypt by the empire...

bah. i need to think this through.

humm. on closer inspection of the map...

oh yes, i do see some interesting potentual there... Mwahahahaha.

and Aridiris will get to see why light cavalry arn't so hot, i suspect.

i think i know wherei shall start now.

woo! the beginings of some happenings!

umm.. yeah. expect tosee the angerman gods flitting around in the background . i don't have any plans to try and use them to achive anything beyond talking to my charicters occasionaly, mostly in situations where they can't reliably say "i spoke to a god". trust me. there shall be no god modeing from me, no matter how litteral :P

expect wisdome and wacky comic releaf out of them, though :D

edit: good lord, i must be mad... look at the size of that.

it appears my RP shall continue in classic style :D

And you expect misunderstanding and ridicule from the godless Alshorians! :P

The Alshorians will be like that example a lot, scientifically. They've acquired and horded a lot of ideas and science, but it's incredibly rare that they make anything new out of it (without lighting themselves on fire or something like that, in the process). Fancy science, far from benfitting the army directly, ends up being used for show, often to ridicule other people's impotent personified gods!

I like the Heraldry Angerman dude, I might pinch it if ye give me permission :P I'll post an IC travel to your lands by Lexin if you do, oh and the Dutch motto upwards is somthing to do with insanity, I can't remember exactly what but it was funny when I first read it in English, talk to me again in a few years when I've learnt Dutch...

Slightly belated but my weakness/strength of my empire is that I have a small Naval force consisting of mainly River Barges a small territorial holdings but a mob-like army with no major fully skilled training but a lot of Combat experience from the recent reunification of Toopoxia/Volitaia.

And you expect misunderstanding and ridicule from the godless Alshorians! :P

The Alshorians will be like that example a lot, scientifically. They've acquired and horded a lot of ideas and science, but it's incredibly rare that they make anything new out of it (without lighting themselves on fire or something like that, in the process). Fancy science, far from benfitting the army directly, ends up being used for show, often to ridicule other people's impotent personified gods!

Oh, Ralish, I've been meaning to talk to you, History goes that my people went on an exodus from the Far East before being apsorbed into a Slavic nation and then further exoditing into Volitaia, doy ye mind if I use you as the unamed Slavic nation?

Well, we're not exactly Slavic per se, but it makes sense that many of the Empire's subjects would be. Anyway, yes, in principle, go ahead. The Empire is so large and the technology of the day so limited -not to mention the structure of governments- that we can hardly control migration and a large part of the cultural and political happenings outside Alshor.

I may as well mention now that the Alshorian people themselves tend to be dark haired and olive skinned, but a great variety of eye colours may be found in the population, and a few have differently coloured hair. The structure of the language -cuneiform script is used to write the imperial language- is Indo-European rather than the Afro-Asiatic that may have been the norm with some of the more powerful neighbours back when Alshor first rose.

I made a Cartouch for my Hero and King Lexin

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/1204/lexinjl3.png

It literally means in made up Volitaian Hieroglyphs "Blood of the Enemy, Translator and Warrior from the Mountains" or "Toopoxican Translator Warrior from the Mountains"

Hello,

I apoligize for my absence yesterday, i had made my factbook but NS ate it.....

I will be posting a new one here soon....

hehe. go for it toops. i used it in the old RP too.

i'm trying to set up that my people are odd enough, one way or another, to actually try some of my weirder ideas :)

hehe. go for it toops. i used it in the old RP too.

i'm trying to set up that my people are odd enough, one way or another, to actually try some of my weirder ideas :)

I've come up with a seperate idea based on Cartouches, the first two symbols represent the ethnicity of your forefather (Blood of -Ethnicity- ) the next two symbols represent what your skills are (-Skill 1- and -Skill 2-) and the last one symbolises where you were born (born in the -Geographical Location-) so it comes together... "Blood of Goblins, Translator and Warrior born in the Mountains" (see Lexin) I might add a way of adding ranks to the Cartouches but for now it's pretty original.

heh. that IS pretty nifty, and achives a similar effect... after a fasion. go you :D

humm. on closer inspection of the map...

oh yes, i do see some interesting potentual there... Mwahahahaha.

and Aridiris will get to see why light cavalry arn't so hot, i suspect.

i think i know wherei shall start now.

Yikes! You do have a lot of Ralish's land to get through before you can get to me though.

My people focus on light cavalry because that's all we developed and needed within our insolated society before being conquered by the empire. Obviously they aren't effective by themselves in a major war. But as a component of the imperial army, they'd form a supportive role. Besides, light cavalry not so hot? Go tell that Genghis Khan!

What are these hawks you keep referring to, by the way?

oh, you'll see, you'll see... put it this way: hawks are the bane of static defenses and slow moving infantry.

Genghis Khan didn't win because he used light cavalry. he won becuase he used horse archers, used tactics that played to his strengths, [which, yes, did include the mobility of light cavalry.] made use of his enemys weaknesses...

but he really won on the Strategic level. think of the number of battles he never had to fight? win a few, slaughter everyone, slaughter a few villages and towns that won't surrender, and treat the ones who do as well as is practical and possible, and all will fall before you, by way of refusing to stand.

had the roman empire still been around, he wouldn't have got far. heck, any solid, cohesive nation in eastern europe which could field a decent army of soldiers, with reasonable leadership, could probilby have beaten him. Byzantium could have held off the mongols if it had kept it togeather, even.

the Ralish, mabey, mabey not. Angermanland? most definatly. at least so long as the mongols in question must pass Through the Urals. hehe. go check out my fact book [second post] for me toasting mongol cavalry archers :D

as for there being 'qutie a bit' of the ralish between us... yhes and no, yes and no. not when compaired to the Ralish's over all size, or even compaired to mine... though, compaired to yours, i suppose it is.

i also anticipated that the Aridirin cavalry would be amongst some of the first units called upon in the defence of that border.

Genghis Khan didn't win because he used light cavalry. he won becuase he used horse archers, used tactics that played to his strengths, [which, yes, did include the mobility of light cavalry.] made use of his enemys weaknesses...

but he really won on the Strategic level. think of the number of battles he never had to fight? win a few, slaughter everyone, slaughter a few villages and towns that won't surrender, and treat the ones who do as well as is practical and possible, and all will fall before you, by way of refusing to stand.

had the roman empire still been around, he wouldn't have got far. heck, any solid, cohesive nation in eastern europe which could field a decent army of soldiers, with reasonable leadership, could probilby have beaten him. Byzantium could have held off the mongols if it had kept it togeather, even.

the Ralish, mabey, mabey not. Angermanland? most definatly. at least so long as the mongols in question must pass Through the Urals. hehe. go check out my fact book [second post] for me toasting mongol cavalry archers :D

as for there being 'qutie a bit' of the ralish between us... yhes and no, yes and no. not when compaired to the Ralish's over all size, or even compaired to mine... though, compaired to yours, i suppose it is.

i also anticipated that the Aridirin cavalry would be amongst some of the first units called upon in the defence of that border.

I was taking light cavalry to include horse archers. There's an ongoing debate on whether or not the Mongols could have been successful in Europe, but I don't think cohesive nations is a factor. They conquered plenty of cohesive nations in Asia. Either way, historical "what ifs" are pointless. Putting a bunch of horses in a narrow mountain pass, surrounding them with pikemen on either side and dropping sewage on them, doesn't prove their tactics are inferior.

Hehe, the distance between me and you is almost twice the size of my nation! Obviousy we'd be called to defend, but the Ralish would be stupid to send us alone and the Aridiro apt to just take off. They aren't known for their bravery, especially as conscripts.

*rechecks map. again. blinks*

and, astonishingly, it is... well, almost. ...

anyway, it wasn't sewage :P and there were halbards on one side and my own light cavalry with lances on the other. a bitt different :P

not that it matters.

and i know a fair bit aobut the "what if"s

anyways. this RP is going to need some interaction soon. i'm working out the last bit of charicter introduction now.

and then... onward come the technology. and diplomats. and ... the army! BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAH!

Things seem to be going very well, we even have the Han back maybe.

I think that when the others, such as Toopoxica, Angermanland, and Osteia fall on the Ralish Empire, I might demand that Ralish cede me the Danish islands to avoid having Longbowmen land in Acquitaine and my cogs and longboats invade the Mediterranean and Baltic :) Ralish, would I meet a positive response?

I'm planning to take the Danish islands (Whether by force or diplomacy), and Gibraltar and Tangier so I have the choke points of the European oceans. I'd rather not conduct operations in calm oceans like the Mediterranean against advanced galley fleets, since my ships are mainly based in the more stormy Atlantic waters, but I could probably pull it off with numbers and ranged, and since no one else seems to be focusing on their navies it appears I have something of a monopoly there.

Once the two choke points are taken, I'd like to establish relations with Osteia and Angermanland, who could be helpful trading partners and possibly useful allies, if I get into a war on land. As for NPC expansion, the Atlantic Azores, Madeiras, and the Cape Verdes would be nice for some southern expansion. In the north, of course, my main expansion will take place, since I want to incorporate the Norsemen of Iceland and Greenland into Caladonn.

My military is based around three main arms- the men-at-arms, the longbowmen, and the pikemen. Men-at-arms are in the front rank with large shields and stabbing swords, forming a shield wall. The pikemen are directly behind them in multiple ranks, sticking their pikes through the gaps in the Men-at-arms' shields to keep cavalry and others at bay. Finally, the longbowmen will be on the flanks or in the rear, blackening the sky with their shafts. I do have a very small cavalry arm, but since most of my army is just landed marines it doesn't amount to practically anything.

As IRL, I obviously have a very strong archery tradition, with every male over childhood required to practice it pretty often. The heavy infantry mainly come from the cities, and are obviously much more expensive to equip than longbowmen.

heh. if you can get to finland you can send diplomats to come see me by sea at this point reguardless.

oh, and i still need a link to your fact book, Caladonn, so i can put it in the first post of the "official" ooc thread :)

Ok, I need to dredge up my old factbook and/or create a new one. I'll try and do that tomorrow.

I don't think I'll be doing much in the Baltic till I have Denmark, but we'll see.

An Angerman trade vessel is welcome in Ostian ports, although most lords in the north are headed towards the border to put fourth a proposal to the Ralish king..

Freedom, the right to self govern and an Ostian King while remaining in the good graces of our neibour.

Lords to the South do not agree yet....

The Port of Bellomo would probably be the one you came up on first.....

*blinks* what now?

i have costal fishing ships, at most. any trade from me is going to be overland, or by way of Caladonn's ships, once he gets it togeather. unless you're talking river boats... which, have no way of getting to you anyway. though they Could get to the caspian sea.... humm.

Are some RPs starting? I noticed a few things in your factbooks. Which threads are these going to be taking place in? I thought we'd start separate ones...

well, toops was stretching it a little with the start of his guys' voyage being in Osteia's thread, but basicly, if it happens within someone's borders, it goes in their thread. however, any long campagines or great expiditions or the like get their own threads. the war i'm about to start, for example, probibly will [though i'll need to get some information first]. purely to avoid clutter.

and ... yeah, there's RPs starting. infact, technicly the whole thing is one big rp, not several smaller ones, so one could say that it 'has started' hehe.

there hasn't been a lot of Interaction yet, but we're working on it :)

Well, I'm waiting on the Ralish's reaction to Angermanland. Unless there's no reaction then we're caught off guard and in chaos. Our nobles are loyal to the empire and uninspiring in their decisiveness, but our people are largely indifferent. In fact, they hate the Aridiro nobility even more than the foreign occupiers.

By the way, just how much of Ralish's territory are you claiming?

Uh oh, somethin's happening?

I'll get right-ish on it.

I just tried to log-in as The Gralish and the Ralshig a few times, then got the password wrong, so, clearly, I'm too drunk to make a proper response just now, but, hopefully, I will catch-up and get somethin done for the start of this next week.

Uh oh, somethin's happening?

I'll get right-ish on it.

I just tried to log-in as The Gralish and the Ralshig a few times, then got the password wrong, so, clearly, I'm too drunk to make a proper response just now, but, hopefully, I will catch-up and get somethin done for the start of this next week.

I think you might have two wars on your hands here!

I have sent a messenger to your nearest outpost with a message asking to meet on the Osteian/Ralish border to discuss terms.....

We will not cross your border or show any direct acts of agression towards the Ralish empires people.

Lord Locke and the other nobles await your reply on the Osteian thread, there could be a peaceful resolve or you could take a chance and fight.....

But i must make you aware, my men do not simply fight because some one is telling them to...they fight for freedom and will fight twice as hard...sorry, THREE times as hard as any of your men.

IF my terms are accepted there is no reason why we cannot live in peace, Osteia has no quarrel with The Ralish Empire....

hehe. dude. ooc thread. leave it at the door, man :P

as for how much territory.. well, i havent' Exactly decided, but if you see where my west/southern border should be one big curve, but there's a bit where it randomly bends the other way? it's the difference between the continuous curve and where it is now... though i might go further... never know :)

also, That question belongs in the ooc thread, really. it is relivant factual information.

so, i shall put the awnser there too.

Uh-oh... where are all the factbooks? Do we have our own thread already? If we do, could someone post the link please? I'll do my own factbook tomorrow...

And Ralish, would it be OK if you had some 8,000-12,000 Madnestians serving you already, stationed around your empire? Couple thousands of them, the best and the most experienced, in your capital/with your "mobile army" if you had one at the moment.

OOC is located here....

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=499790&page=4

Hey guys, here's a past tech RP set in the 1940's.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=499986

That explains it, and heres a link straight to the site:

http://nseurope1943.s2.bizhat.com/index.php?mforum=nseurope1943

I'm the head admin over. Jus thowing it out for you all :)

Thanks, Reallydrunk.

Hey, Toopoxia here, I'm having problems with Toopoxia so I'm pulling out of this RP until the technical difficulties get sorted out.

Hey, Toopoxia here, I'm having problems with Toopoxia so I'm pulling out of this RP until the technical difficulties get sorted out.

Why don't you just play as Thiomalea until you get Toopoxia working again?

Why don't you just play as Thiomalea until you get Toopoxia working again?

Cos i've been looking for an excuse to have a break from II for a long time and this has just given me an ultimate opportunity, I'm restricted from posting, the region i'm in is dying and the websites i'm on are getting lame, plus I'm just starting to get a social life here in Gipeswick after 2 years and a half of trying to get on the ladder...

Oh....