NationStates Jolt Archive

All OOC questions and comments can go here, since answering PM's and instant messages regarding this is getting a little daunting.

The war isn't totally closed, however Melkor and I would like to keep the main slugfest to ourselves. However, we will allow other participation as long as it remains within the context of the thread. If people want to skirmish they are free to do so, but as I said the main combat between AMF and Melkor is mostly closed.

Here is the IC thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=497882

Will there be lesbians?

Will there be lesbians?

What?

At AMF and the others in the IC thread: Been a good read, keep it up.

War again? What happened after that ceasefire...

Is this the big thing you were talking about AMF?

Is this the big thing you were talking about AMF?

Hopefully it will live up to what I think it will.

And there goes the power vacuum... :p

Tag as well, didn’t want to stick that in the ic thread.

Cool. I would like to get either a small team or small tank group in.

Hopefully it will live up to what I think it will.

I thought Gholgoth was having a civil war. -_-

"The Great Player Makes His Last Great Move. Soon, Once And For All, The Mighty Shall Fall."

Take that how ever you want it, it's supposed to be cryptic. And it can refer to both AMF and Melkor, as both are great RPers, and considering thier armed forces I doubt both of them will come out of the conflict without one being bloodied greatly.

"The Great Player Makes His Last Great Move. Soon, Once And For All, The Mighty Shall Fall."

Take that how ever you want it, it's supposed to be cryptic. And it can refer to both AMF and Melkor, as both are great RPers, and considering thier armed forces I doubt both of them will come out of the conflict without one being bloodied greatly.
Indeed.

Though to be frank (nothing insulting however), I'm kinda upset you and SC decided to retcon the SC-AMF war. I feel it was kinda more appropriate and significant ICly and OOCly than the Five Kingdoms vs. the Excessively Armed Empire.

Why?

Well, because the way I see it, Sniper Country is the "master" at one point, as he is one of the two inspirations behind AMF's military style (professional ability and first-class combat efficiency), and the other being Pantera (sheer resolve and determination).

Automagfreek, in essence, is the "Apprentice" of Sniper Country. And (while arguably unfair in terms of stats) he has exceeded the Master.

I see it as, if you will, the Master giving his old Apprentice one last exam for one last time, to finally conclude who has the most dominant infantry forces in the NS world.

More symbolic of a warrior's honor and significant to NS history, Melkor Unchained against Automagfreek is yet another "no matter who wins, fanboys lose" scenario as the two parties are both "Hell's Angels", so to speak.

But nevertheless, I look forward to this role-play, and a good read.

Reading over some of this, I'm not entirely certain that many of you are aware of the changes that have taken place within Arda since I last posted here. A few notes:

--First, Althalon rules Arda now; not just the Five Kingdoms. I have, for the most part, appropriated the Ardan landscape, as the vast majority of my old cronies were inactive. ICly I've justified this by having had Althalon wage a war of conquest throughout Arda in the wake of his rebellion. Since Arda used to have ~20 nations and how has seven [two of which are marginally active], a change needed to be made, and all that empty space on the map was driving me bananas. A map of Arda can be found here. (http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f222/ganjmahal/Arda_copy.jpg) Ignore the Mordor-like mountain range in the central area; Mordor is its own separate landmass and the map's author wasn't aware of that at the time.

--As such, there are no longer any Orcs in my armed forces. At the end of the revolution, Alkanphel takes on Morgoth in hand-to-hand combat, destroys his physical form, and Morgoth flees into the Void as sort of a Ringwraith on PCP [having been a Valar and not a human previously].

--Dreadfire regards the continued existence of Angband and Utumno [still too powerful to conquer] as evidence that no regime change took place at all and he regards Althalon as still acting in Morgoth's interests. When AMF will choose to reveal this circumstance is up to him. However, as of this moment, he is launching an invasion against a regime he has never exchanged a word with. OOCly he seems to be aware of this, but I'm not certain many others are. I won't go so far as to say I've turned "good guy" in most senses of the phrase, but my priorities are going to be radically different now.

--The story takes place ~25-30 years after the rebellion. The "Hinterland," as it were, consists largely of the eastern landmass you can see on the Arda map. Five Kingdoms culture is just beginning to take hold in these places.

--AMF is landing in the Arraš island chain [dont forget the Caron!], which are the islands in the central southeast. He is landing in the South and on the Easternmost islands, although not simultaneously.

Crimmond and Leocardia have apparently expressed an interest in joining, and while I haven't discussed this with AMF I can offer a couple of proposals. The Supremacy subs as mentioned by Crimmond can stay and mess some stuff up if you want; but I don't want to see you landing hundreds of thousands of troops on my beaches. We're trying to limit third party involvement to skirmishes, intrigues, and political developments if possible.

Leocardia, I hate to say it but if you send the units you described in your IC post to engage in combat on Ardan soil they will be thoroughly and quickly trounced. Since AMF is already about to land on the easternmost tip of the Arraš chain, the only battle I could see you getting into right now is the one that will at some point in the near future take place at An' Arraš the city, which is the seat of power for the region. Althalon, as mentioned in my previous post, expects the landing there and as such it is currently my most heavily fortified area.

I thought Gholgoth was having a civil war. -_-

Think that was only mentioned in passing at one point and not really looked into.

SEA,

Interesting viewpoint, but I believe it is wrong. While AMF as a nation (and even me as a player) have looked up to the likes of Sniper Country and Pantera, both elements of me have always been careful to tread their own path and not copy others. Long before I became acquainted ICly and OOCly with SC and Pantera, I was cutting my own swath of destruction against the likes of GDODAD through 2 World Wars.

Indeed I was inspired by SC's special ops roleplay, and as a result I have a top notch spec ops division that once beat back an entire enemy army by itself (In fact I recall the war, when AMF rushed to defend Russian Forces from an invasion from the north by Forumwalker). I was also inspired by Pantera's fantastic, detailed oriented RP when it came to his Reavers. I wanted my own new soldiers (what would then be the Sentinels) to have as much depth as them. I didn't turn the Sentinels into a copy of his Reavers, I added my own style and ferocity to them...a style that Pantera ICly frowns upon, since it is basically pure, evil butchery. These OOC sentiments and ideas were then incorporated into my RP, and that's how I have gotten to where I am today.

Sniper Country and I are both sort of reluctant to fight each other, since we are allies, and have been for years. I'm not sure how he feels exactly, but his words in the regional message board say a lot: "Meh, if we consider that the whole SC vs AMF thing never REALLY happened, I still opt out. No way we could stand a chance in that one. "

This war against Melkor has a lot of IC bile behind it. Dreadfire is in the process of smashing all enemies in his path, in the wake of the Kraven Wars. The Five Kingdoms has been at a ceasefire with the Empire for roughly 3 RL years, and Damien wants closure and a grand victory.

Melkor and I *are* hammering out some of the details so it does not turn into a bitchfest, but I think he does understand that a lot has changed since he went away. AMF soared to new heights during that time, racking up many victories and expanding its power exponentially. AMF's military evolved into quite possibly the most lethal MT/PMT force in the world, or at least in the International Incidents forum. I'm not saying this to be smug (I detest the thought of bragging), but merely as how and outsider would view the progress of my nation.

He knows I'm not a small fry, and he knows that he is coming out of a revolution/civil war. There is plenty of IC reasoning behind the war, especially for those who remember the days of Metus and the IC AMF/Melkor hatred that almost erupted a few times. I expect this to be hard fought, since Melkor has technology, terrain and knowledge on his side, and I have a wealth of experience, tactics, and everything I've built Automagfreek into on my side.

If you're looking for a serious clash of the titans, there is little doubt that this is it. It's been a long time in the making, and it's going to be one for the ages. It's not every day a big dog from NS gets to fight a big dog from I.I. ;)

The forgotten shade comes from the shadows.

GODDAMN! YESYESYESYESYESYES!!

FIGHT WELL!

Seriously, Ill be following this. Good go guys.

Live and let die!

*air guitars*

Stuff.

He's right, more or less. AMF and I are, for the most part, in OOC cahoots. Both of us know roughly how long the war will last, how much territory will change hands, and whatnot. I plan on mitigating my significant tech advantage by a) not using my space fleets which would be wank in a conflict like this anyway and b) diminishing my grav-fleet size. It's thirty years or so after my civil war and we're still rebuilding them. Half of my sky furnaces have been destroyed and the [i]Dor Daedoloth is missing and presumed under the employ of Morgoth, wherever he is.

For all of the raw military talent AMF has, he's still going to have some problems besting even a slightly depleted Five Kingdoms; this thread should be an interesting read for the newer viewers who might be familiar with AMF's work but have no inkling as to mine--from what I've read here and elsewhere so far this strikes me as a formidable demographic. Your average rank-and-file Five Kingdomer is as [or more] battle-hardened than their Freekish counterpart.* Our armies have different strengths and weaknesses of course, but it strikes me that both are supposed to be most adept at ground warfare; so conflict on land should be doubly interesting.

*And I've clawed my way up to #26 on the world Defense poll ^^

The forgotten shade comes from the shadows.

GODDAMN! YESYESYESYESYESYES!!

FIGHT WELL!

Seriously, Ill be following this. Good go guys.


Come back. Now.

Your disappearance from the Blood Pact is an annoyance!

Melkor, if any part of my most recent post doesn't make sense, let me know. It was pieced together from 3 different post drafts over the course of several days, and since it's late I'm not sure how coherent it is.

You guys probably wouldn't beleive me if I relayed an account of my last two or three weeks, but suffice to say it's been totally goddamn crazy and various events have hampered my posting abilities.

I just started college and all that fun stuff, and I'm still in the process of balancing work and school; not to mention coming to grips with the fact that I now have a grand total of about 2 hours of free time at my house, depending on how late I'm willing to stay up [which isn't usually that late on account of early classes].

That said, I'm going to finish up my post and put it up tonight, at long last. Sorry for stalling the thread, but I'll be damned if I haven't had like 4 or 5 of the worst days of my life in the last 4 weeks. I think I'm starting to get the hang of things finally, so hopefully this won't be happening again.

Per a discussion with Melkor, this RP will be in a state of limbo until he is able to continue. All parties are free to play without having this as baggage, and it will resume likely after the New Year once he is free.

Yeah, its kind of funny now when I read that post right up there about posting that same night... the next day when I went to plug in my edits I somehow forgot to save it all and my comp got turned off; since then I haven't had a damn bit of time to write. My schedule has reached the point of utter ridiculousness; I leave for class at 10am and get home from work at 11pm every day from Monday through Friday. As if that weren't enough, I got into a car accident while uninsured and now I owe State Farm more money than I've ever seen in one place in my entire life.

Suffice to say I have no idea when I'll be able to write [at length] again. As far as I can remember, AMF and I have made a loose arrangement to chip away at our story and start posting when it's finished up, presumably with interludes here and there to allow others to react [but not participate, since it'll be done by the time you see it].

Nice read so far guys (the IC thread). Keep it up!

Would you still be interested in continuing this Melkor? If so, since so much time has passed, I would sort of like the rest of the war to be seen as a flashback, or as having been concluded in the past already. My nation has advanced since then and is doing other things, so having this war drag onto present day is going to encroach too much on what I'm currently doing and what I plan on doing.

Would you still be interested in continuing this Melkor? If so, since so much time has passed, I would sort of like the rest of the war to be seen as a flashback, or as having been concluded in the past already. My nation has advanced since then and is doing other things, so having this war drag onto present day is going to encroach too much on what I'm currently doing and what I plan on doing.

Well... yeah, I think it would be cool if we could finish it up. I'm getting ready to start spring quarter soon but we might be able to squeeze it in.

I made a brief post, hopefully you can see what I'm trying to do.

The post before was my last attack, which is where the RP died. It's up to you what you want to do next.

For those of you who don't know what a Sky Furnace is (see my last post) it looks something like this. (http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f222/ganjmahal/gothmog.jpg)

The red rings you see on the underside are the blast furnaces. The idea is that the thing gets reasonably close to the ground (500 feet I imagine is about the highest it could get and still touch the ground with its firey goodness) and then it turns on these obscene flamethrowers on the bottom. Obviously a ship like this has a very limited mission profile, and they're designed for wiping out cities or large chunks of enemy infantry.

Currently, the Litany of Fury is my flagship Sky Furnace; where the other two are I have not yet disclosed in my RP. The Litany is the biggest one and right now is the only ship with the "outer set" of blast furnaces. The other ones are slightly shorter and skinnier, and only have the center column of blast furnaces.

I will now post (since I've taken so much time on it and it will become useful to me later) my dispositions for the opening stages of the Arraš campaign.

Currently in the area are 2 Army Groups; Dabernasi's 5th Army (which is already mostly engaged) and Sourn's 2nd Army (which is still in stasis at An' Arraš). The 2nd is larger as you may see, and at the bottom I have a partial list of committed divisions.

I have not finished designating my strategic reserves which will be stationed at either Daturias, Ali'Staan, or Port Archoerus. Right now there are a handful of divisions (rifle and motorized) that are already part of the reserve, but more will be added over time. I'm going to add a few Armored divisions to the resrve before long, but once that's done the numbers here are likely to remain static for some time.

AMF: I may move some divisions around as the campaign develops, since they are all presently on the western half of the Ardan continent. I probably will not have the time or patience in the course of my writing to enumerate every move. If you open up another front, or if you have a specific division you want to attack, ask me if you're not clear about where it is.

These numbers will be in effect until directly stated otherwise in the course of the RP. They represent my forces on land and ready for combat in or near Arraš.

* Designates units currently in combat. Later I will specify casualties per unit and I'll add new designations for retreating and regrouping units.


**5th ARMY** Sen Dabernasi

GUARDIS DIVISIONS

ARRAS

**5th ARMY** Sen Dabernasi
Guardis VI Rifle Corps (3 Divisions of 20,000 and 1 Division of 18,000 total 78,000 Rifle infantry)
--2nd Rifle Division *
--17th Light Infantry & occupation [Doomguard] *
--19th Rifle
--15th Engineers
Guardis IX Rifle Corps (3 Divisions of 18,000 total 52,000 Rifle Infantry)
--5th Rifle Division
--10th Rifle Division *
--12th Light Infantry & Occupation [Doomguard] *

Guardis II Motorized Corps (2 Divisions of 12,000 total 24,000)
--12th Motorized * --attached to 7th AD
--45th Motorized * --attached to 7th AD

Guardis XXIV Motorized Corps (3 Divisions of 12,000 total 36,000)
--2nd Motorized
--39th Motorized (+Althalon's retinue) * --attached to 11th AD
--42nd Motorized
Guardis XI Armored Corps (2 Divisions of 200 heavy tanks and a varied assortment of 400 light combat and 1-200 self proppelled artillery w/low-level gunshihp escort [~50] and about another 100 specialized combat machinery)
--11th Armored Division *
--14th Armored Division
Guardis XV Armored Corps (same dispositions as above)
--3rd ARmored Division
--7th Armored Division *

...and about 20,000 noncombat support personnel.

A note on Armored Divisions:
Most of the time, Infantry Divisions and Armor move closely together. Usually, Armored Divisions will take about a regiment of infantry with it should a speedier push become necessary. Rifle and Doomguard formations still move on their feet, but Iteration transports are often arranged if possible, to speed them to their armor should they get too far ahead.

Althalon's Retinue:
The Angsiyan reserves the right to attach himself and his entourage (500 combat personnel) to the unit of his choosing. For the opening stages of the war he is travelling in tandem with the 39th Motorized Division stationed 15 miles southeast of Cipio, meaning he's in one of the first units to engage AMF military forces on Mar'achaam.

Noncombat personnel:
This category subsumes staff officers, laborers, cooks, off-the-field mechanics, civilian advisors and just about any other thing that doesn't fight that an army might need that I can't think of. The number fluctuates according to the position and disposition of the armies involved.


**2nd Army** Ogan Sourn

Guardis I Infantry Corps (5 Divisions of varied Infantry, 10,000-16,000 men)
--5th Heavy Infantry Division (10,000)
--9th Heavy Infantry Division (10,000)
--12th Heavy Infantry Division (10,000)
--2nd Grenadier Division (16,000)
Guardis VII Infantry Corps (3 Divisions of 15-20,000 men)
--1st Rifle Division (20,000)
--29th Rifle Division (18,000)
--20th Grenadier Division (15,000)
Guardis XII Infantry Corps (3 Divisions of 16-18,000 men)
--17th Anti-Aircraft Division (10,000)
--45th Grenadier Division (16,000)
--11th Rifle Division (18,000)
Guardis XV Infantry Corps (4 Divisions of 10,000-18,000 men)
--1st Vzj'Nakai mixed infantry (12,000 men)
--2nd Vzj'Nakai mixed infantry (10,000 men)
--6th Light Infantry & Occupation (18,000 men) [Doomguard]
--9th Anti Aircraft Division (10,000 men)

Guardis X Motorized Corps (3 div)
--3rd Motorized
--17th Motorized
--21st Motorized
Guardis XIX Motorized Corps (4 div)
--5th Motorized
--20th Motorized
--4th Motorized
--25th Motorized
Guardis X Engineer Corps (2 div)
--Iteration X
--Iteration VI

Guardis II Armored Corps
--56th Armored Division (300 heavy tank, 450 light AV, 75 Self propelled artilley, 100 gunships 50 specialized combat machines)
--6th Armored Division (350 heavy tank, 220 light AV, 110 Self propelled artillery, 25 gunships, 30 specialized combat machines)

Guardis V Armored Corps

--2nd Armored Division (225 heavy tank, 375 light AV, 125 self propelled artillery, 50 gunships and 125 specialized combat machines)
--8th Armored Division (310 heavy tank, 225 light AV, 200 Self Propelled artillery, 65 gunships and 60 specialized combat machines)


RIFLE DIVISIONS COMMITTED
1st -- ACTIVE [VII Infantry corps] __ Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
2nd -- ACTIVE [VI Infantry Corps] __ Guardis 5th Army (Dabernasi)
3rd -- RESERVE (Ali'Staan)
4th -- RESERVE (Daturias)
5th -- ACTIVE [IX Rifle Corps] ___ Guardis 5th Army (Dabernasi)
7th -- RESERVE (Port Archoerus)
8th -- RESERVE (Port Archoerus)
10th --ACTIVE [IX Rifle Corps] ___ Guardis 5th Army (Dabernasi)
11th --ACTIVE [XII Infantry Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
19th -- ACTIVE [VI Rifle Corps] ___ Guardis 5th Army (Dabernasi)
29th -- ACTIVE [VII Infantry Corps]__ Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)

* * * DOOMGUARD DIVISIONS * * *
1st Guards -- RESERVE (Port Archoerus)
5th Guards -- RESERVE (Port Archoerus)
6th Guards -- RESERVE (Port Archoerus)
2nd Light Infantry & Occupation -- RESERVE (Port Archoerus)
5th Light Infantry & Occupation -- RESERVE (Daturias)
6th Light Infatry & Occupation -- ACTIVE [Guardis XV Infantry Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
12th Light Infantry & Occupation -- ACTIVE [Guardis IX Corps]__Guardis 5th Army (Dabernasi)
17th Light Infantry & Occupation -- ACTIVE [Guardis VI Corps]__Guardis 5th Army (Dabernasi)

MOTORIZED DIVISIONS COMMITTED
2nd -- ACTIVE [XXIV Motorized Corps]__Guardis 5th Army (Dabernasi)
3rd -- ACTIVE [X Motorized Corps] _Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
4th -- ACTIVE [XIX Motorized Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
5th -- ACTIVE [XIX Motorized Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
8th -- RESERVE (Port Archoerus)
12th -- ACTIVE [II Motorized Corps]__Guardis 5th Army (Dabernasi)
14th -- RESERVE (Port Archoerus)
15th -- RESERVE (Ali'Staan)
17th -- ACTIVE [X Motorized Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
20th -- ACTIVE [XIX Motorized Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
21st -- ACTIVE [X Motorized Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
25th -- ACTIVE [XIX Motorized Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
39th -- ACTIVE [XXIV Motorized Corps]__Guardis 5th Army (Dabernasi)
42nd --ACTIVE [XXIV Motorized COrps]__Guardis 5th Army (Dabernasi)
45th -- ACTIVE [II Motorized Corps]__Guardis 5th Army (Dabernasi)
98th --RESERVE (Ali'Staan)
110th -- RESERVE (Ali'Staan)

ENGINEER DIVISIONS COMMITTED
Iteration X -- ACTIVE [X Engineer Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
Iteration VI -- ACTIVE [X Engineer Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)

GRENADIER DIVISIONS COMMITTED
2nd -- ACTIVE [Guardis I Infantry Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
20th -- ACTIVE [Guardis VII Infantry Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
45th -- ACTIVE [Guardis I Infantry Corps__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)

ANTI-ARICRAFT DIVISIONS COMMITTED
9th -- ACTIVE [Guardis XV Infantry Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
17th -- ACTIVE [Guardis XII Infantry Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)

HEAVY INFANTRY DIVISIONS COMMITTED
5th -- ACTIVE [Guardis I Infantry Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
9th -- ACTIVE [Guardis I Infantry Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
12th -- ACTIVE [Guardis I Infantry Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)

ARMORED DIVISIONS COMMITTED
2nd -- ACTIVE [Guardis V Armored Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
3rd -- ACTIVE [Guardis XV Armored Corps]__Guardis 5th Army (Dabernasi)
6th -- ACTIVE [Guardis II Armored Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
7th -- ACTIVE [Guardis XV Armored Corps]__Guardis 5th Army (Dabernasi)
8th -- ACTIVE [Guardis V Armored Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)
11th -- ACTIVE [Guardis XI Armored Corps]__Guardis 5th Army (Dabernasi)
14th -- ACTIVE [Guardis XI Armored Corps]__Guardis 5th Army (Dabernasi)
56th -- ACTIVE [Guardis II Armored Corps]__Guardis 2nd Army (Sourn)

As some of you may have noticed, I've posted ICly twice in a row. Normally this is a no-no during war, but my previous post focused more on the broader aspects of the Arraš and my more recent one is a view from the war on the ground. No time has passed between my previous post and this one; it is merely an examination of the situation from entirely different viewpoints (since I haven't followed any troops on the ground until now).

I tried to avoid specific descriptions of enemy troop movements, and I'm trying to make as few assumptions as possible. AMF, if I goofed somewhere or made an assumption you don't like, let me know and I'll make the appropriate edits.

For a more in-depth look at what's going on:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f222/ganjmahal/Arda_copy.jpg

The island chain the central southeast of the continent is the Arraš chain. Mar'achaam is the island on the north side of the chain that looks kind of like a stretched out version of Paupa New Guinea. Cipio is situated on the "bend" of the coastline on the North side where the island gets a little fatter.

Arkhan Dei and the 11th Armored are defending a suburb on the southern side of the island. Roark and the 10th Rifle are completely on the other side of town. Both formations are still a bit east of Cipio. The terrain is mostly flat but heavily vegetated--pretty much a jungle. It's hot and muggy out there, and the weather is starting to get kind of shitty.

AMF, I'm really trying to be super patient about this. I left the RP on ice when we first started it for 6-8 weeks before making it clear that I couldn't continue, and for this reason I have attempted for some time now to be very patient with you and allow plenty of time between posts, as I understand you have other things going on. But the fact of the matter is you are now pushing three months since your last post, and to make matters worse we've barely spoken during this period (and I was told that our project could be resumed... in late February).

I do not want to retcon this war but I will be forced to examine alternate possibilities if you haven't posted by June 2nd. Please try to post or at the very least let me know what's going on (you've answered one of about six of my telegrams, and I had to assume an unpleasant attitude much like this one to get it--which I don't like to do to my friends). I have a storyline going now with FSP that I cannot continue until new material is written.

I'm really enjoying this story and I'd love nothing more than to see it turn into something great, which should not be too hard for either of us. Please, please help me out here.

Check messages.