Algeciras Conference (E20 closed)
Galveston Bay
28-08-2006, 21:32
The Algeciras Conference begins on January 17 to discuss the fate of Morocco
a crisis in 1905
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Moroccan_Crisis
caused the Americans to get inolved as well as the Europeans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perdicaris_incident
ooc
a fun movie, although romaticized severely, is The Wind and the Lion, very loosely based on the Perdicaris Incident.
Sukiaida
28-08-2006, 21:46
ANd was hosted in SPain. As I gather it will be here as well. THough France seems the more talkative of the nations involkved.
Amestria
28-08-2006, 21:53
OOC: Its being held in Algeciras :rolleyes:
Anyway, Spain, TG.
Sukiaida
28-08-2006, 21:58
Alright checking my TG.
Abbassia
29-08-2006, 08:41
The Moroccon Delegates arrive and await the general direction which the Conference shall take.
Safehaven2
29-08-2006, 14:34
tag
Assistant Secretary of State Robert Bacon, recently recomissioned by Congress entered the room with his associates and seated himself by the Moroccan delegates. Not sure what to expect when the European powers appeared, Bacon passed the time familiarizing himself with his neighbors and their plight. Teddy Roosevelt, preoccupied with other matters of state had effectively given him decisionmaking authority at this conference, so long as a "damn war doesnt break out over there."
He had vowed to do his best, though to be honest, was fairly unclear as to why the United States was always sorting out the problems of the other great powers. Why just this past year that nasty little business between Russia and Japan had been finished, thanks to the Americans again. Still he kept his feelings to himself and afforded polite greetings to the other delegates as they arrived.
Amestria
30-08-2006, 23:45
Prime Minister Maurice Rouvier (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Rouvier.jpg) arrived at the conference, feeling fairly tired. Since June 6 1905, after privately asking for and securing his Minister of Foreign Affairs, Théophile Delcassé, resignation, he had been juggling both the portfolios of President of the Council (Prime Minister) and Minister of Foreign Affairs, working frantically to find a lasting solution to the problem presented by Morocco. Now resolution was well in hand, a compromise having been negotiated between both the German and French governments and had only to be publicly agreed upon at the Conference. Doubtless, the French ultra-nationalists would hate it, but his government had the votes necessary to get the treaty through Parliament.
Despite how tired he felt Prime Minister Rouvier could not however help but feel annoyed that the United States had only seen fit to send its Assistant Secretary of State to mediate the conference rather then their Secretary of State. Typical of Americans, not taking affairs outside their hemisphere seriously, another continental war had almost broken out after all. Not that it mattered, Bacon's (what a stupid name) part in what followed would be inconsequential.
Before taking his seat Mr. Rouvier made it very clear to Mr. Robert Bacon that “those little bandit people” (referring to the Moroccan delegates) were “of no consequence” and should not be allowed to hold up the proceedings and probably should be forbidden from speaking. “Their role shall merely be to sign where we tell them.”
[NS]Parthini
31-08-2006, 00:06
(Remembers he's a racist 1900s Brit, and not a tolerant 1970s one...)
Sir Edward Grey, Foreign Secretary of the United Kingdom, had finally arrived and took his seat. After the sucessful Entente with France, Britain had little to worry about and had generally accepted that Morocco was under French Influence and that the Germans were being little more than pesky annoyances. He was, however that a Continental war had not in fact, broken out over this non-sense, but to him, this issue had taken a back-seat in British eyes.
More important issues to him were the discussions about Ireland, Canada's apparently growing "friendliness" towards the United States and perhaps most importantly, the Persian Revolution, and what Russia would do. He simply hoped that the French and Germans would simply finish this up so he could begin speaking with the Russians about Persia...
Middle Snu
31-08-2006, 00:12
OOC: Flavor text is all well and good, but I suggest you get straight down to business. Technically it's already 4 months into the year, and I've seen elaborate roleplays of treaties and conferences last well over a week of real time.
Bacon blanched as the Frenchman sat down. An associate at the State Department had warned him about the possiblity of this sort of attitude, but he would have sworn it at the time to be an exaggeration. Live and learn.
He cleared his throat to speak first as the remaining delegates took their seats.
Au contraire, he whispered, stealing a quick glance at Rouvier before continuing in a louder voice for everyone's benefit. "I do believe that the Moroccans will speak first here. It is after all their territory in question, and if nothing else, they had the courtesy to arrive here on time..."
Sukiaida
31-08-2006, 02:26
The Spanish representative had been there first, after all they were the hosts. But like history, his fellow delegates forgot about him. He'd remain an enigma where people said, "who was the spanish delegate anyways?" He quietly stayed in his seat, not really having an issue.
(Truthfully try and find the delegate for the Spanish.)
Amestria
31-08-2006, 02:36
Au contraire, he whispered, stealing a quick glance at Rouvier before continuing in a louder voice for everyone's benefit. "I do believe that the Moroccans will speak first here. It is after all their territory in question, and if nothing else, they had the courtesy to arrive here on time..."
"No." Rouvier stated curtly. "You are here to mediate, not set the agenda. This matter is between Germany, Spain, and France, as my Spanish counterpart Luis Polo de Bernabé will attest. Morocco, that misgoverned place that cannot even keep order within its capital, shall accept what is decided to be in their best interest."
Sukiaida
31-08-2006, 02:47
(lol You actually found it.)
"Quite, when the powers that be found Morrocco, it was as backward as the rest of Africa. Europe has been the shining light, the heart if you will, in the darkness. Africa can not be civilized without our help. Was it not the United States cavalry that civilized their barbarians to the West? Europe applauded America for this, and such as those "Indians" I believe you called them, did not speak first or at all in their civilizing process, so shall Morrocco not speak first. This is, how do the doctors state it, they say that the patient thinks ill of his treatment because it hurts. But that pain is the path to healing."
Safehaven2
31-08-2006, 03:10
While the Americans and French argued over formalities, Count von Tattenbach, one of the two senior German ambassadors present was called back to Berlin. The other senior ambassador, Herr von Radowitz, simply sat back and watched the other delegates argue waiting untill the real issues that had brought about this conference reached the table.
OOC: Sukaida, you know your delegate, the Duke of Almodovar, was elected chairmen at Germany's request.
Amestria
31-08-2006, 03:21
Having made his point to that ignorant and bothersome American, Prime Minister Rouvier got down to business.
"France proposes the following treaty to settle all present disputes pertaining to Morocco among the European Powers, ensure the countries solvency, and establish institutions for the preservation of order and good governance."
****
The Algeciras Treaty
Preamble: This agreement shall cover the organization of Morocco's police and customs, regulations concerning repressing the smuggling of armaments, the recognition of the special nature of France’s interest in maintaining order on the frontier of her Overseas Territories in North Africa, the recognition of significant Spanish and German interests in Morocco, and concessions to various European economic interests.
Section I: Finance
A. A new State Bank of Morocco shall be formed, issuing banknotes backed by gold, with a 40-year term. The new state bank will act as Morocco's Treasury Department, with a strict cap on spending, with administrators appointed by the national banks that guaranteed the loans: the German Empire, the United Kingdom, France and Spain.
B. Moroccan Taxes are to be levied towards public works.
C. Spanish currency will continue to circulate in Morocco.
Section II: Economic and Legal Concessions
A. The rights of Europeans to own land will be firmly established, and the Government of Morocco shall through the treaty cede the right to ever deprive them of that land. A separate legal system shall be created to exclusively handle legal matters regarding European citizens.
B. France, German, and Spanish companies shall be granted exclusive rights by the Moroccan Government to develop Morocco’s resources.
1.75 of Morocco’s Yearly Resources to France
1.75 of Morocco’s Yearly Resources to Germany
.5 of Morocco’s Yearly Resources to Spain
4 Resources in total taken from Morocco and ceded to France, Germany, and Spain
C. Opium and kif (hashish) shall no longer be a government monopoly of the Sultan’s; it shall become a joint monopoly of the Governments of France and Germany (through a public company by which both control 50%).
Section III: Policing and Customs Regulations
A. The Sultan of Morocco shall not retain control of the police forces in the six port cities, each police force is to be instead controlled by French and German officers, who would also oversee the paymaster (the Amin) and regulate discipline, and who could be recalled and replaced by their Governments. The Inspector-General in charge would be Swiss and reside in Tangiers. The Moroccan Government shall pay for the police forces. Spain, France, and Germany will also have the right to jointly (as in all together consenting to the others actions) police the interior should the Moroccan Government once again fail to maintain order.
Sub-Point 1. France will manage the police forces of 3 port cities (one of which is Casablanca)
Sub-Point 2. Germany will manage the police forces of 3 port cities (one of which is Rabat)
B. Beyond an interior police (ooc: militia units) Morocco will not be allowed a military. Germany, France, and Spain may collectively overrule the Sultans commands over the interior police force and assume direct control if deemed necessary.
C. The treaty shall prohibit Morocco from importing weapons (self explanatory).
Section IV: Spain
A. Spain shall be granted a buffer state surrounding its two possessions of Melilla and Ceuta, as well as the duty of policing/developing the RIF, and assumes the role of protecting power over the northern and southern Saharan zones.
Section VI: Naval Bases
A. No naval bases shall be created in Morocco without the collective consent of France, Germany, and Spain.
ooc: should I hold my reply so Abbassia can go first or go ahead and blunder into this thing on my own for the sake of saving time?
Amestria
31-08-2006, 04:40
ooc: should I hold my reply so Abbassia can go first or go ahead and blunder into this thing on my own for the sake of saving time?
OOC: When they say what Morocco says does not matter they mean it...so go ahead. Remember however the US is simply mediating and cannot just oppose something, especially if it has the agreement of the conference. In addition Spain's delegate is the chairman who sets the rules, and he has apparently determined Morocco is not entitled to speak.
Safehaven2
31-08-2006, 04:49
Radowitz upon going over the French proposal anounces that it is acceptable in Germany's eyes.
OOC: When they say what Morocco says does not matter they mean it...so go ahead. Remember however the US is simply mediating and cannot just oppose something, especially if it has the agreement of the conference. In addition Spain's delegate is the chairman who sets the rules, and he has apparently determined Morocco is not entitled to speak.
ooc: i give you this Amestria. You are very good. But you know that when you assume you simply make an ass out of 'u' and 'me.'
Spain's honorable delegate indeed sets the rules, and he said:
"Quite, when the powers that be found Morrocco, it was as backward as the rest of Africa. Europe has been the shining light, the heart if you will, in the darkness. Africa can not be civilized without our help. Was it not the United States cavalry that civilized their barbarians to the West? Europe applauded America for this, and such as those "Indians" I believe you called them, did not speak first or at all in their civilizing process, so shall Morrocco not speak first. This is, how do the doctors state it, they say that the patient thinks ill of his treatment because it hurts. But that pain is the path to healing."
Italics are of course mine. Morocco will not speak first, and they did not, as was the rules. You could of course assume that saying they will not speak first implies that at some point they should be allowed to speak. Otherwise the clarification "first" would not even be necessary.
But again, schemantics. I fully expect Sukiada to clarify himself shortly and remove Morocco from the agenda, so I will continue with the American response.
Bacon shook his head slowly as he finished reading the treaty, then looked up.
"This is quite a piece of work gentlemen. It is acceptable to all European parties?"
He received affirmations in return (ooc: a guess on that. Negate all the following if somebody disagrees).
"At some point though I do remember being told that Morocco must sign this treaty as well. Mr Rouvier said so during his most memorable entrance. I can not believe this document would be acceptable to Morocco, and I am sure you could grace their reprentatives with the permission to nod or shake their heads. They do after all represent a nation not only recognized by mine, but one with which we have a treaty of friendship going back farther unbroken than any other the United States has signed.
Another question as well concerning section VI. During the time waiting for other delegates to arrive, the United States and Morocco discussed an American naval base at Casablanca (OOC: by TG). I do trust that this treaty would not preclude my nation from such an opportunity?
ooc: seriously guys, Abbassia should at least be able to say something OOC before we destroy his nation...
Amestria
31-08-2006, 06:17
"At some point though I do remember being told that Morocco must sign this treaty as well. Mr Rouvier said so during his most memorable entrance. I can not believe this document would be acceptable to Morocco, and I am sure you could grace their reprentatives with the permission to nod or shake their heads."
"Any reasonable legitimate government would sign this treaty, if Morocco does not sign that just proves how lawless the situation has become there and how out of touch with reality the Sultan is, necessitating an even firmer intervention..."
They do after all represent a nation not only recognized by mine, but one with which we have a treaty of friendship going back farther unbroken than any other the United States has signed.
"You have a selective memory Mr. Bacon, you forget how the Moroccan Government allowed one of your countries citizens to be kidnapped by brigands and how your President promptly sent in the marines...the treaty of friendship you now speak up apparently meaning little at the time."
Another question as well concerning section VI. During the time waiting for other delegates to arrive, the United States and Morocco discussed an American naval base at Casablanca (OOC: by TG). I do trust that this treaty would not preclude my nation from such an opportunity?
"If such a base is acceptable to future French, German, Spanish, and Moroccan Governments, yes, this treaty will not preclude the eventual establishment of an American naval base."
Abbassia
31-08-2006, 09:00
The Moroccon Delegate declares that several of the points are unjust such as:
-Stripping the nation of its control over its own armed forces is a great offense to the soverignity of the nation. More so, the division of which between two distinctive European powers.
-Unfair and excessive Taxation of the nations economy which will no doubt lead to the ruin of the nation as more than 50% of the nations income is being diverted to forign nations, making it economically unsensible and cannot be in the best interests of Morocco.
-Excessive interference in the domestic affairs of the nation such as granting special status to forigners.
For these reasons, we again state this agreement to not be satisfactory and hope for a revision, reminding that Morocco has not acted in any way to provoke this kind of reaction and indicating that it is curious that those who did provoke it benefit greatly from their actions.
We humbly ask for reconsideration as how would this be recieved in Morocco and the possible reaction it will provoke, which would not be in the interests of anyone in this room right now.
Amestria
31-08-2006, 09:12
The Moroccon Delegate declares that several of the points are unjust such as:
-Stripping the nation of its control over its own armed forces is a great offense to the soverignity of the nation. More so, the division of which between two distinctive European powers.
-Unfair and excessive Taxation of the nations economy which will no doubt lead to the ruin of the nation as more than 50% of the nations income is being diverted to forign nations, making it economically unsensible and cannot be in the best interests of Morocco.
-Excessive interference in the domestic affairs of the nation such as granting special status to forigners.
For these reasons, we again state this agreement to not be satisfactory and hope for a revision, reminding that Morocco has not acted in any way to provoke this kind of reaction and indicating that it is curious that those who did benefit greatly from their actions.
"The treaty is not unjust and it was written with Morocco's best interests principally in mind. Your government has repeatedly proven itself to be completely incapable policing its territory or paying off its debts...has proven itself completely incapable of self government. There will be no revisions."
We humbly ask for reconsideration as how would this be recieved in Morocco and the possible reaction it will provoke, which would not be in the interests of anyone in this room right now.
"Your government will sign the treaty...we demand it."
Abbassia
31-08-2006, 09:21
We again ask consideration over the popular response in Morocco and would like an exlanation on how would these be in the best interests of the nation.
Amestria
31-08-2006, 09:27
We again ask consideration over the popular response in Morocco...
"If the Sultans Government cannot sign the treaty then that just further proves Morocco's lawless state and the need for order to be imposed from outside...by force if necessary.”
Abbassia
31-08-2006, 09:32
We would like to hear response from German, Spanish and American delgates regarding our comments before continuing any further.
Safehaven2
31-08-2006, 13:25
The Moroccon Delegate declares that several of the points are unjust such as:
-Stripping the nation of its control over its own armed forces is a great offense to the soverignity of the nation. More so, the division of which between two distinctive European powers.
.
"The treaty affects your armed forces in no way, police and soldiers are two different things. Should Morroco wish to raise an army they have Germany's blessing as we believe it is key for any nation to truly exert theri soveriegnty to have reliable military forces. On that note, Germany offers to help Morroco raise, equip and train if nessecary a strong army.
As for the economic issues, Morroco has dragged itself into debt, this is a way for Morroco to get itself out. Germany has no problem with Morroco building a mercheant fleet(we offer the use of Rabat if nessecary for shipping) to make up for any loss of tax income, but we must point out that Morroco's debts have to be paid as harsh as it seems."
Turning to the Americans, Radowitz adressed Casablanca. "Casablanca is to be part of France's sphere and so it is a question they and Morroco must answer. Germany does offer the port of Rabat for use should Morroco agree, if Casablanca does not work out."
Abbassia
31-08-2006, 14:01
The treaty affects your armed forces in no way, police and soldiers are two different things. Should Morroco wish to raise an army they have Germany's blessing as we believe it is key for any nation to truly exert theri soveriegnty to have reliable military forces. On that note, Germany offers to help Morroco raise, equip and train if nessecary a strong army.
B. Beyond an interior police (ooc: militia units) Morocco will not be allowed a military. Germany, France, and Spain may collectively overrule the Sultans commands over the interior police force and assume direct control if deemed necessary.
C. The treaty shall prohibit Morocco from importing weapons (self explanatory).
Two clearly confused points. This why we ask for further deliberation and study on the matter.
As for the economic issues, Morroco has dragged itself into debt, this is a way for Morroco to get itself out. Germany has no problem with Morroco building a mercheant fleet(we offer the use of Rabat if nessecary for shipping) to make up for any loss of tax income, but we must point out that Morroco's debts have to be paid as harsh as it seems.
4 Resources in total taken from Morocco and ceded to France, Germany, and Spain
We find the repayment of debt a bit more merciful than unfair and unprovoked taxation, thank you. And we find extremely awkward being offered the use of our own ports.
As for debt repayment, a more sensible plan can be called for eithout carving up Morocco into three areas, We doubt that such measures have been applied on other nations on the same position.
If debts are to be repaid we suggest placing the Moroccon Economy under the guidance of some neutral body with representatives from all nations involved. The Americans have shown themsleves to be competant economists so we suggest the task goes to them otherwise Swiss or Belgian Bankers can be given the task.
This way debt repayment is assured and the soverignity of Morocco is maintained. Everyone is happy.
Sukiaida
31-08-2006, 14:29
The gavel fell down, as the Duke found he had one. "Ahem. THat will be quite enough. In responce to Morrocco's problems with the treaty and stating that they are hereby unjustly punished. You must see this not as a punishment. Instead, you must see this as an opprotunity. WHat has happened with self rule? Disaester. It's been one after the other. Lawlessness, and greed, and abuse of the Morrocan people."
He took a sip of water. "Though harsh, these are for the good of Morroco. Wait." He raised his hand to silence everyone. "I remember mentioning the patient who thinks ill of his treatment. But this is the same. This is not a permanent occupation of your lands of foreign powers. We are there to teach you, to educate you so that eventually you can be a power that is rich and healthy. If you resist, then this will have to be an occupation. Sometimes a patient must have his medicine forced upon him."
He coughed into his hand. "But if you work with us, if you sign this, you sign a consent form that only brings health to your economy. In fact, if Morroco signs the agreement without any problems, SPain is willing to invest the resources it obtains from Morroco right back into the local economy. They would move maybe three feet before being used properly. Spain would incourage Germany and France to give some of their resources back into the local economy to help the health of Morroco."
He looked stern as he put his hands together. "But, if you continue to resist what will happen doubtless in bringing order, we will not be so happily inclined."
(This is all based on late 19th century idealism.)
Safehaven2
31-08-2006, 15:31
Radowitz quietly points out to the Morrocan delegation that if they raise to much of a problem, Germany might just let the French have their wish of a protectorate over Morroco, at least this way Morroco keeps its independence. As for the miliary clause, that can be worked around.
Sukiaida
31-08-2006, 17:10
A quiet reminder is sent to the Germans that the notice states at the end that Spain, Germany, and France will decide if a naval base is able to be set up in Morroco. The dubious reasons that the United States went to war with Spain in 1898 make SPain anxious about allowing them a naval base.
Spain would feel uncomfortable having a US naval base so close to our shores. Morroco is our neighbor after all.
(THis is purely Germany. No one else sees this. And believe me Spain has a ton of reason to mistrust the United States. Even if the war they lost saved them from Civil War.)
Lesser Ribena
31-08-2006, 17:39
OOC: Following a player decision and a dice roll:
Important news reaches the French and German intelligence agencies operating in North Africa. MI6 (Britain) also hears some of it through several intercepted communications and double agents.
OOC: Parthini, Safehaven, Amestria. You've all got a TG. Spain doesn't hear (it has no in-game intel agency) but nations can chose to share intel with each other if required.
Sukiaida
31-08-2006, 18:16
(However, if it's in a location I currently have soldiers posted, I'd get news on it. So if it's in Ceutra or both Rio areas, then I'd have a chance of learning about it from the men posted there. By telegraph or other means.)
Lesser Ribena
31-08-2006, 20:24
The soldiers in the Spanish enclaves notice a slight increase in the activity and numbers of Moroccan border guards on patrol in Morocco. This is not perceived as anything out of the ordinary and the local Moroccan commander states that it is simply a measure to deter illegal immigration and smuggling.
Amestria
31-08-2006, 21:08
The French Ambassador to Spain strongly advises the Spanish Government to reenforce its enclaves in Morocco and prepare military forces to bring the Moroccan Government into complience with The Algeciras Treaty.
OOC: Spain, TG.
OOC2: Since there have been no objections I assume that Spain, France, and Germany have all signed The Algeciras Treaty and its clauses are now de jure in effect, just not de facto...yet.
Sukiaida
31-08-2006, 21:28
OOC: THanks I responded to it. ANd yeah SPain would sign.
[NS]Parthini
01-09-2006, 01:17
Sir Grey, realizing that the situation is becoming increasingly hostile, leaves the discussions for Portugal, keeping his deputy there incase more pressing issues arise.
OOC2: Since there have been no objections I assume that Spain, France, and Germany have all signed The Algeciras Treaty and its clauses are now de jure in effect, just not de facto...yet.
OOC: perhaps my understanding of international law is so weak that I shouldnt be playing E20 at all, but Morocco has not signed the treaty. Thus it simply can not apply to them, no matter how much anybody else wants it to. It is as absurd as the Moroccans drawing up a treaty that gave them jurisdication of Paris and Berlin, then signing it themselves and declaring it valid. The United States would not back that as mediator (despite the unwarrented rudeness of the French delegate ;-) ), and it will not back something so similarly one sided.
If you wanted them to have no role at all you shouldnt have invited them. It may have been a sham, but you have still given them a legitimate position.
I am sure that some agreement can be found, that leaves the Europeans with something like resources per year and bases. But it is totally absurd to remove all measures of self-defense for a nation.
Amestria
01-09-2006, 05:46
OOC: perhaps my understanding of international law is so weak that I shouldnt be playing E20 at all, but Morocco has not signed the treaty. Thus it simply can not apply to them, no matter how much anybody else wants it to. It is as absurd as the Moroccans drawing up a treaty that gave them jurisdication of Paris and Berlin, then signing it themselves and declaring it valid. The United States would not back that as mediator (despite the unwarrented rudeness of the French delegate ;-) ), and it will not back something so similarly one sided.
If you wanted them to have no role at all you shouldnt have invited them. It may have been a sham, but you have still given them a legitimate position.
I am sure that some agreement can be found, that leaves the Europeans with something like resources per year and bases. But it is totally absurd to remove all measures of self-defense for a nation.
OOC: Have you read RL history? The US agreed to a similar treaty that was pretty much the same...a lot less extreme, but it still set Morocco on the path to being a protectorate and Morocco in the begining refused to sign it... And you know what? The US still back it in RL, as the Conference was about European influence in Morocco (German and French), not about Morocco's "sovereignty". And as stated before what the Moroccan Government feels about the treaty is irrelevent as it is a deal among the European powers to cut up the place. You have RPed a America that has regressed somewhat in its interactions with Europe btw...
And we did not invite them, they invited themselves (they would have had to be present to sign the eventual treaty anyway) and the French/Spanish throughout the whole conference made it clear they would rather the Moroccans not speak.
OOC:It's called an alternate history for a reason. If I was expected to react to every situation in the world in the same way the US (and every political actor in it did in real life), I would not be allowed to change a thing. If a mod has an issue with my RPing, please, let them speak up. So far I havent heard anything.
Changes (as far as I am concerned) at Algeciras. Everything else rolled from this:
--Teddy got distracted and sent an idealist with more control over events than he should have. If this fellow wasnt an idealist in RL, than the historical change is the environment he grew up in to make him one. Not an implausable change.
--The US diplomat has been hounded reasonably excessively by the French delegate. Your RPed behavior, realistic or not, is certainly enough to get Bacon "up on his high horse." Perhaps Bacon will be fired when he returns to Washington. Or perhaps he will report on the utter ass the French made themselves and start a new divide in Franco-American relations. I guess we'll just find out.
If the Moroccans werent supposed to be here, fine. My point remains that for the treaty to be legal they still have to sign it, and they havent yet.
Amestria
01-09-2006, 16:15
OOC:
If the Moroccans weren’t supposed to be here, fine. My point remains that for the treaty to be legal they still have to sign it, and they haven’t yet.
OOC: Actually it’s a European treaty to divide up Morocco into spheres of influence... And all the Europeans have signed it, so it is legally in place as far as they are concerned, and given there is no need for mediation between France and Germany, Bacon really no longer has a role to play at the conference, which I believe has been concluded successfully (the point of the conference to get France and Germany to agree on how to divide up Morocco...they now have done so, Morocco’s opinions had always been irrelevant).
OOC: Actually it’s a European treaty to divide up Morocco into spheres of influence... And all the Europeans have signed it, so it is legally in place as far as they are concerned, and given there is no need for mediation between France and Germany, Bacon really no longer has a role to play at the conference, which I believe has been concluded successfully (the point of the conference to get France and Germany to agree on how to divide up Morocco...they now have done so, Morocco’s opinions had always been irrelevant).
OOC: I can only nod to that. You are of course correct. I guess we are done here then. It looks like Morocco will have to resist the decision with force of arms.
Ato-Sara
01-09-2006, 20:23
OOC: I can only nod to that. You are of course correct. I guess we are done here then. It looks like Morocco will have to resist the decision with force of arms.
OOC: Start the First World War over Morroco by Sending US marines and the US fleet to stop t3h 3vil fr3nch :p .
Sukiaida
01-09-2006, 21:06
Uhh the evil French, Germans, Spanish and Britain if it gets to that. And if the British get involved that's the Japanese involved as well. Also remember that the population of the US is extremelly isolationist at this time. Guess what happens come election if they even try to get into an unpopular war over Africa. (Which isn't a sphere Americans are interested in anyways.)
Lesser Ribena
01-09-2006, 21:07
OOC: The US has had friendly terms with Morocco since the signing of the Moroccan-American Treaty of Friendship in 1783 by the Sultan, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. According to the embassy site (US Embassy in Morocco (http://www.usembassy.ma/usmorrelations/historicalbgrnd2.htm) the US "spoke eloquently in defense of Morocco" at Algeciras and that "fair play is what the United States [asked] for Morocco and all interested parties" in the early 20th century. So a US diplomat speaking in defence of Morroco's sovereignity isn't too far from RL.
Sukiaida
01-09-2006, 21:17
OOC: Going to war for them on the other hand. All of this is mute at the moment. We have to pause it until militaries are corrected.
Abbassia
01-09-2006, 21:49
The Moroccon Delegates inform the rest of the delegates that a proclemation has been issued by his Exellency, the Sultan of Morocco;
The Translated Proclemation Reads:
"<Insert Date>, 1906
The unanimous Declaration of the sole most Responsible Caretaker of the people of Morocco and the representatives and leaders of the people of Morocco,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which God Almighty has entitled them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to this act.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government or influence becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new soverign Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a severe train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government or influence, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these People; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present Leaders of the Franks is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these People. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
<several reasons are put up including those mentioned in the conference, OOC: but if you insist I'll try and think up of them>
We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. "Presidents" and kings whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, are unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
We, therefore, the Sole Most Responsible Caretaker of the Morocco, in unanimous prescence of the representaives and leaders of the nation, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these blessed lands, solemnly publish and declare, That these United people and Brethern are, and of Right ought to be Free Independent and Soverign States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the European Influence, and that all political connection between them and the States of Europe, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free Independent and soverign People, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
Enclosed with this decleration is a small token; the grand cordon of the Legion of Honour which was presented to the Sultan. Which is presented to the French delegate.
Following this the Delegates declare they will never sign such treaty, refuse to accept its terms and that the Free shall defend themselves to the very end.
If not thrown out of the room for "disorder" they would then humbly bow and depart to their homelands to seek paradise.
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OOC: Very dramatic, I know. But those terms are too harsh to simply accept, than as the RL terms, where the French would actually would have support from the Sultan, but these terms woud have just convinced him to change that support.
I mean come on! you even took away his monopoly on the opium and made it a European Monopoly, no matter what charecter he had he would never support the terms.
Anyways for those who did not recognise it yet, the proclamation is taken from the American Decleration of Independance.
Finally, I guess it's a small bit of warfare then the state of Morocco and their glorious plight shall be left for the mods while I ponder which nation to take.
Ato-Sara
01-09-2006, 23:13
Uhh the evil French, Germans, Spanish and Britain if it gets to that. And if the British get involved that's the Japanese involved as well. Also remember that the population of the US is extremelly isolationist at this time. Guess what happens come election if they even try to get into an unpopular war over Africa. (Which isn't a sphere Americans are interested in anyways.)
OOC: Somehow methinks I was joking.....
Safehaven2
02-09-2006, 21:42
After pushing thru the treaty, Radowitz walked over to the French Prime Minister to get his feelings on current events and relations.
Galveston Bay
03-09-2006, 02:28
OOC:It's called an alternate history for a reason. If I was expected to react to every situation in the world in the same way the US (and every political actor in it did in real life), I would not be allowed to change a thing. If a mod has an issue with my RPing, please, let them speak up. So far I havent heard anything.
Changes (as far as I am concerned) at Algeciras. Everything else rolled from this:
--Teddy got distracted and sent an idealist with more control over events than he should have. If this fellow wasnt an idealist in RL, than the historical change is the environment he grew up in to make him one. Not an implausable change.
--The US diplomat has been hounded reasonably excessively by the French delegate. Your RPed behavior, realistic or not, is certainly enough to get Bacon "up on his high horse." Perhaps Bacon will be fired when he returns to Washington. Or perhaps he will report on the utter ass the French made themselves and start a new divide in Franco-American relations. I guess we'll just find out.
If the Moroccans werent supposed to be here, fine. My point remains that for the treaty to be legal they still have to sign it, and they havent yet.
I have no problems with any of this. Remember, Teddy Roosevelt is a very popular President, and has a lot of political capital to spend. Remember also the US is very aware that France intervened in Mexico during the US Civil War and only pulled out because of the threat of US force at the end of the Civil War. US doesn't have a huge amount of goodwill toward France, nor a lot of ill will, but Teddy is an Anglophile, not a Francophile. He is also concerned about the Kaiser.
So France and Germany and Spain would have to take very seriously the possibility of US involvement in Morocco, and the US has a much bigger fleet then France and is on a par (or better at this point) with Germany.
And the US has a pair of dreadnoughts under construction (2 Michigan class)