NationStates Jolt Archive


Looking For Teleportation Technology (FT, OOC)

Talost
17-08-2006, 17:38
I have as yet been unable to conceive a viable means of teleportation that actually makes sense. Because of this, my ships and stations and stuff lack the technology, whilst every other nation can beam themselves to the moon if they want. So, I’m offering a big, fat government contract to whomever can furnish me with suitable teleportation technology. There are some requirements, however:

-You must explain how it works in terms that actually make sense. It has to be able to work in terms of real life theories.

-It must be able to fit into a relatively small space.

-It must be able to transport people to wherever I tell it to. In other words, from teleport pad to teleport pad, from teleport pad to other ship, from teleport pad to planet’s surface, etc.

-The system does not need a teleport pad to be acknowledged, but this is a plus.

-You must post how much you will except to sell me this system.

The winner of this contest will receive the amount of funds they request, the official status of “Ally of Talost,” and a 5% discount on the first model of ship to make use of their system.
The Cassiopeia Galaxy
17-08-2006, 17:45
(What's wrong with the Star Trek stuff? If I might ask out of curiousity.)
Talost
17-08-2006, 17:51
It's too much like magic. You can just pop up anywhere. It doesn't make sense.
Mini Miehm
17-08-2006, 18:04
It's too much like magic. You can just pop up anywhere. It doesn't make sense.

All teleportation is just matter-energy conversion. No matter what you pick, it's gonna be like magic. ST is pretty simple, understood, and fits the parameters you set out.
The Cassiopeia Galaxy
17-08-2006, 18:06
(Yah and if you let an NSer do it, it's gonna be worse. Stick to Star Trek man, tis the best choice.)
Clan Ansu
17-08-2006, 18:06
Trek teleporters are a little too 'standard'. They perform an astonishing feat of technological engineering with all the effort of flipping a light switch.

Do some research into Warhammer 40k teleportation, if you don't already know something about it. It's far more unreliable and precise, and it's possible to just lose your troops altogether as their matter disperses.

Mmm... archaic.
The Cassiopeia Galaxy
17-08-2006, 18:07
Mmm... archaic.

(Would you like some salt with that?)
Mini Miehm
17-08-2006, 18:09
Trek teleporters are a little too 'standard'. They perform an astonishing feat of technological engineering with all the effort of flipping a light switch.

Do some research into Warhammer 40k teleportation, if you don't already know something about it. It's far more unreliable and precise, and it's possible to just lose your troops altogether as their matter disperses.

Mmm... archaic.

He kinda wanted something...effective and reliable. Unless you somehow get Necrontech, you're not getting any reliable teleportation from 40k.
The Scandinvans
17-08-2006, 18:16
The Eternals will offer you the teleportation technology that is both safe and reliable. The teleportation system works in way that converts a person’s matter into energy and relies on the proper coordinates being put into it. Yet, the technology will not work against certain types of energy shields or will not teleport you unto Eternal worlds without permission, but this is due to them being prevented due to safety reasons,. Overall they work using many different types of energy which are harnessed by a device that is hand held or on someone’s rest. The price will be 210 tons of gold, 490 tons of silver, and an agreement not to use the teleportation in any way against the Eternals.
Mini Miehm
17-08-2006, 18:31
The Eternals will offer you the teleportation technology that is both safe and reliable. The teleportation system works in way that converts a person’s matter into energy and relies on the proper coordinates being put into it. Yet, the technology will not work against certain types of energy shields or will not teleport you unto Eternal worlds without permission, but this is due to them being prevented due to safety reasons,. Overall they work using many different types of energy which are harnessed by a device that is hand held or on someone’s rest. The price will be 210 tons of gold, 490 tons of silver, and an agreement not to use the teleportation in any way against the Eternals.

Would you like that all at once?
Chronosia
17-08-2006, 18:36
40k teleportation tech relies alot on archaic technology and an understanding of the Warp as evidenced by this piece of fluff from Codex Daemonhunters;

"The chained lightning crackled once more, and for a moment reality flickered. The air shimmered and the temperature dropped. Cold mist began to appear in an area that mere moments before had been warm. Laski passed his hand across the lectern and muttered an incantation. The protective amulets he wore blazed with power. A frown of concentration passed across the Tech-Priest's face as he wrestled to bring the gigantic energies of the teleporter under control.

Stern wondered for a moment whether some daemonic influence could be tampering with the teleporter's ancient mechanism. This ship was as well protected as any ever devised by man, but Stern of all people knew that no protection was infallible. Still, if it were truly the case that the Powers of Chaos were tampering with their ship there was nothing to do except pray and have faith in the Emperor.

Suddenly Laski smiled and made the sign of the Great Engine over his breast. The air shimmered once more. Phosphorescent fire danced around the lines of the pentagram. For a moment the cold of interstellar space seared Stern to the bone. He heard the gibbering voices of daemons and the oozing touch of tentacles. He tried to dismiss them as figments of his imagination but part of him knew that they were horribly real.

The sensation lasted but a moment and then was gone so swiftly that it was like a dream. Stern stood in the throne room of the rebel governor's palace. Gazing at the man who sat on the huge brazen throne he knew that the worst fears of those who had reported the uprising were justified."
The Scandinvans
17-08-2006, 18:54
Would you like that all at once?Sorry, about this, but you kind of forfeited the right to use Eternal tech when you became a power of Chaos.
Talost
18-08-2006, 06:01
All teleportation is just matter-energy conversion. No matter what you pick, it's going to be like magic. ST is pretty simple, understood, and fits the parameters you set out.

Yes, I understand that, but how dies it work? Is the "signal" transmitted via dishes? Broadband transmitters? And what kind of computing power is needed to send that much information? How do you convert matter to energy without burning it?

See my problem?

Do some research into Warhammer 40k teleportation, if you don't already know something about it. It's far more unreliable and precise, and it's possible to just lose your troops altogether as their matter disperses.

Mmm... archaic.

Haha, yea, WH40K TPers are great. My last nation used them. More often than not my marines wouldn't go anywhere when teleported, but they'd turn inside out :p. Mini Miehm can attest to something similar. It kind of happened in one of our old RPs. Remember, MM? (I'm Einhauser, by the way).

He kinda wanted something...effective and reliable. Unless you somehow get Necrontech, you're not getting any reliable teleportation from 40k.

Yea, I do need cutting-edge for this nation. I am "t3h sl33k" now.

*snip*

That's a good deal, but I need more information. See my questions for ST tech.
Otagia
18-08-2006, 06:05
OOC: EINHAUSER! YOU'RE BACK! :fluffle:

Been FAR too long! I miss your ships sales, you know that? I don't think anyone has pulled those off as well as you, including PRA.
Talost
18-08-2006, 06:10
*bows* I enjoy what I do. Haha, it's good to see you again, Otogia! We never got a chance to do a really good RP, you know that?

Anyway, the reason I'm looking for this TP tech is so I can work it into my (wait for it) newest ship design! This one is gonna be sweet. From leather captain's chair to neon lighting under the hood. Ok, maybe not neon lighting...
The Scandinvans
18-08-2006, 06:27
My way of teleportation relies on the form of q-Teleportation which relies on the altering of the quantum part of matter into atoms in order to transport them to their desire destination. This is occurred by the data of the teleportation device recording your matter signature which is kept on it then acting as a guide to the desired destination by being the lead part of it to the point of the desired point of transmission. The signal itself is forwarded by the transmitter device, but as a fail safe if the person cannot reach the point of destination or if they get lost in the teleportation sequence a fail safe device if kept on the person will bring them to the closest friendly place emitting a signal. The computing power if also kept on the device which relies on a number of central processing thing that communicates using a extremely fast relay system that keep track of the devices activations and ‘jumps’ between destinations. The device converts matter to energy by first converting the person to atoms and then they are converted to energy when they are broken down into more base forms so as not to create a nuclear reaction to affect the area surrounding the activation destination. So when they are converted to energy then they are brought to their destination and all this occurs in just a few seconds.
Talost
18-08-2006, 06:53
Ok, just to clarify:

The system works by altering matter into… more matter? Atoms are atoms, aren’t they? Do planets have to constantly transmit a signal into space for the fail-safe to work? How much does this cost, and what is it’s range? Can it beam someone from A to B without teleport pads?
The Scandinvans
18-08-2006, 07:09
Alright, the person is first altered into atoms and then they are transformed into strings.

For the fail safe to work a signal has to be maintained or they cannot log onto the coordinates without the person cannot put in, which of course cannot be activated when they are nothing but basic energy, but if a planet’s fail safe is off and it cannot locate another one they will go to the last coordinates in them.

The cost is only maintenance as they rely on their own energy gathered by their own means.

The range of the devices is intergalactic and is able to cross about 24 billion light years, but that is about it.

As well, it can transport a person from one point to anther without using teleportation pads as they are only about the size of a watch and can be worn like one.

As well, the fail safe device is about the size of quarter which can literally be carried in a pocket.
Studium
18-08-2006, 10:09
And how does your transportation system account for the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, if it deconstructs a person on the atomic level as you say?
The Kafers
18-08-2006, 15:25
I have as yet been unable to conceive a viable means of teleportation that actually makes sense. Because of this, my ships and stations and stuff lack the technology, whilst every other nation can beam themselves to the moon if they want. So, I’m offering a big, fat government contract to whomever can furnish me with suitable teleportation technology. There are some requirements, however:

-You must explain how it works in terms that actually make sense. It has to be able to work in terms of real life theories.

-It must be able to fit into a relatively small space.

-It must be able to transport people to wherever I tell it to. In other words, from teleport pad to teleport pad, from teleport pad to other ship, from teleport pad to planet’s surface, etc.

-The system does not need a teleport pad to be acknowledged, but this is a plus.

-You must post how much you will except to sell me this system.

The winner of this contest will receive the amount of funds they request, the official status of “Ally of Talost,” and a 5% discount on the first model of ship to make use of their system.Piece of cake. Google “quantum teleportation”. IBM has a web page devoted to it (http://www.research.ibm.com/quantuminfo/teleportation/), because an IBM fellow came up with the idea. It was actually performed successfully a few years back (in 2004) by the University of Vienna; photons were teleported from one bank of the Danube to the other. The BBC published a a news article on it (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3576594.stm).

So how does it work?

Well, in layman's terms (and for those too lazy or scientifically challenged to read the pages cited above), what happens is this: you scan the matter in question and obtain the minimum amount of information needed to describe your cargo in quantum mechanical terms. Note that the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle forbids you from observing everything there is to observe about the matter in question; you can never know everything there is to know about anything (so the idea of scanning something down to the nth degree and then replicating it elsewhere won't work: it violates the laws of physics at a [literally] fundamental level).

Fortunately, less is more. You don't need to know everything; you don't even want to know everything; you just need to know enough to make some very basic changes to some lump of matter at the receiving end.

Now what you need at the receiving end is a lump of matter that has been “entangled” with the original matter. Google “quantum entanglement” and the “Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen” effect for further information. For purposes of play, I would simply say that you only need to be able to “synchronize” or “tune” the two masses of matter (transmitting and receiving) for them to become “entangled”, and that this can be done by any kind of electromagnetic wave or field capable of acting on both at once. It does not need to be a destructive wave or field.

Once the two masses are “entangled” (or “tuned”, or whatever), you scan the first to obtain the information you need to perform the teleportation. The act of scanning disrupts the original (required by the “no cloning” rules of quantum mechanics [so you effectively destroy the original]). Now you transmit the scan data (via a carrier wave) to the target mass and apply that data to the target. It doesn't matter that you didn't get complete state information on the original; the EPR effect and the fact that the two masses have become “entangled” means that the unscanned (and hence unknown) state information is “magically” conveyed to the target.

The combination of the application of that part of the state information that you scanned and the transmission of the unscanned (unknown and unknowable) state information via the EPR effect means that the mass at the receiving end takes on the exact total state of the original mass, while the original mass loses that state. You have now regenerated what existed at your transmitter a moment earlier. Voila!

Requirements and limitations: There has to be mass enough at the receiving end to recreate the object you're sending. You're not “beaming” mass over to the new location, just changing something at the new location to be identical to what you sent. If you have mass-energy conversion technology and can employ it to create the needed mass at the destination, then this no longer applies.


You need to be able to entangle the two masses, which I assume can be done by an energy transmission or field effect. Unless you can transmit data faster than light speed, this will happen at the speed of light. Think of this as getting a lock on the destination.


You need to be able to scan the original and then transmit the scan results to the target; once there, you apply it to the receiving mass, effectively altering its quantum state to match the original. Think of this transmission of data as a carrier signal. Again, unless you can transmit data at speeds above c, the carrier acts at lightspeed.


In the earliest implementations, a receiving platform is necessary; once you have developed the means to “entangle”, scan, and apply scan data to matter at a distance (which should all be projectable beam or field effects), then you no longer need the receiver as long as enough of the necessary kind of matter (humans are mostly water, for instance) exists at the point of arrival. Once you can turn energy into mass and vice versa [i]at a distance[/] (remote mass-energy conversion), this last requirement goes away and you can “beam” anything anywhere.


Because it may be hard to do these things at a considerable distance, the device probably has a planetary range (under 0.1 light seconds).Basically, it's a Star Trek transporter. The reason it works is that a lot more physicists are Star Trek fans than Star Wars or Warhammer 40K fans, and over the last 10-15 years a lot of people have been working hard to make Star Trek technology work (cf., the Alcubierre Warp Drive [Miguel Alcubierre, 1994]). So much for the idea that ST transporters are "magic". The only "magic" to them is the EPR effect, which - while bizarre (Einstein called it "spooky interaction at a distance") has been proven for decades. But then, as Michael Crichton noted in Timeline, the world of quantum mechanics is just wierd.

P.S. No charge. Consider this to be an invention by one of your own scientists. If I ever need help, I'll have one of my other puppets call in a marker (the Kafers don't tend to form alliances or buy things from other people).
The Kafers
18-08-2006, 15:41
Yes, I understand that, but how dies it work? Is the "signal" transmitted via dishes? Broadband transmitters? And what kind of computing power is needed to send that much information? How do you convert matter to energy without burning it?As the articles cited indicated (CalTech has a page on it (http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~qoptics/teleport.html), too); however you want to send the signals (for range I presume a coherent beam of some kind, like a laser); an array of parallel quantum computers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_computer) should be sufficient; you can't - the original must be destroyed to telepert it somewhere else.

That answer your questions? ;)
Otagia
18-08-2006, 16:05
I've never liked quantum teleportation for some reason. I think it has to do with the fact that you have to kill the person you use it on, and are really only making a copy. Sure, the copy has all the properties of the original, down to memory, but it still gives me the willies. I dunno, perhaps I've just been watching too much Gantz, but I'll personally pass on that form.
The Kafers
18-08-2006, 17:19
I've never liked quantum teleportation for some reason. I think it has to do with the fact that you have to kill the person you use it on, and are really only making a copy. Sure, the copy has all the properties of the original, down to memory, but it still gives me the willies. I dunno, perhaps I've just been watching too much Gantz, but I'll personally pass on that form.Hey, now you know why McCoy hates transporters.

BTW, Crichton has a field day with this in Timeline, although his system is slightly different.
Mini Miehm
18-08-2006, 19:02
Quantum teleportation sounds like fun. I am SOO going to use it for something eventually.
Talost
18-08-2006, 19:19
*snip*

Believe it or not, this was more or less my first choice for a system. My version was basically a bunch of supercomputers recording the placement of every atom in the item (or body) and then transmitting that to a system somewhere else. That second system would then employ nanobots to harvest atoms from a "free pile" and assemble them in a tank of amniotic fluid. Again, there was the problem of it being only a duplicator, not a teleporter. You still had to shoot the first guy.

Anyway, that's just not practical (or even useful) of a starship. Or anywhere, really.
Otagia
18-08-2006, 19:53
Hey, now you know why McCoy hates transporters.

BTW, Crichton has a field day with this in Timeline, although his system is slightly different.
Heh. Well, I'd use it in RP, but QUETZAL would hate it, as it entails harm coming to Otagians, however impermanent the harm is. The fact that QUETZAL can't prove that it's the same person means he wouldn't allow its use by gov't bodies.
The Kafers
18-08-2006, 19:57
Quantum teleportation sounds like fun. I am SOO going to use it for something eventually.It's more fun after you've read the RL web pages on it.

"So are you real, or are you Memorex?"
The Kafers
18-08-2006, 20:01
Believe it or not, this was more or less my first choice for a system. My version was basically a bunch of supercomputers recording the placement of every atom in the item (or body) and then transmitting that to a system somewhere else. That second system would then employ nanobots to harvest atoms from a "free pile" and assemble them in a tank of amniotic fluid. Again, there was the problem of it being only a duplicator, not a teleporter. You still had to shoot the first guy.

Anyway, that's just not practical (or even useful) of a starship. Or anywhere, really.Well, in this case no nanomachines are needed. You entangle a target mass, you zap the cargo and then apply the scan data to the entangled mass, which causes it to become whatever the cargo was; this very process must destroy the original, but that's fine - it's just the laws of quantum mechanics at work. It really is a dematerialize/materialize system, just like an ST transporter.

As I've said, there are way to many ST fans among physicists; these people are busily trying to make ST technology a reality. Wouldn't it be a hoot if GR's legacy was to inspire a generation of geeks to invent his SF future!
Mini Miehm
18-08-2006, 20:02
It's more fun after you've read the RL web pages on it.

"So are you real, or are you Memorex?"

Of course I am.
The Kafers
18-08-2006, 20:03
Of course I am.Yes. Exactly. :D