NationStates Jolt Archive

This is an OOC discussion thread about how to improve the generally...lacking RP standards among II future-tech nations. It's open to anyone.

I'll get the ball rolling. To me, II is a morass of crappy RPing, I'm not going to try and be delicate about it. Every now and then there's a jewel, but typically when I browse the threads in this forum, its for humor value. The sad thing is the jewels tend to get shattered by a horde of morons wielding sledge hammers in short order, which leaves me with just the humor value.

As a friend puts it, "If I wanted to see endless dirges about technology raped from other universes I would read the latest from Kevin J. Anderson and if I want endless, meaningless streams of numbers I will read a NASA report. Both are more entertaining and enjoyable than most crap found on II."

Essentially, it comes down to this: Every FT war on II looks the same after about 20 posts. There's no creativity, there's no actual thought.

It's just a horde of star destroyers, star gate warships, star trek ships, and who knows what else that's been ripped off, being tossed at each other in giant screaming hordes. With that, I'll get down to specific points.

There is always someone bigger than you.

I don't care how good the tech you just ripped from whatever generic sci-fi is, if you're less than 2 billion population and have anything less than a powerhouse economy, you might as well be Lichtenstein or San Marino for how much you matter in the food chain. Never heard of either of those nations? My point is made.

You can stand on the tips of your toes and shout as hard as you want, but anyone that is marginally aged out of the cradle is going to look at you and laugh. A few may be polite about it and snicker behind their hands while your back is turned, but that is about as far as "polite" will go.

Superweapons are t3h suck

Death Stars, Sun Crushers, Doctor Devices, Galaxy Guns. They might as well all be synonyms for "I'm creatively bankrupt, and have no idea what I'm doing."

It's not that hard to kill a planet alright?! A 1,500 ton starship moving at .4c will finish one off, you don't need a 160km diameter battle station, or some massive FTL artillery piece, and you especially don't need some wank "OMG INVINCIBLE" fighter capable of taking out star systems.

Just please stop with the superweapons. They're retarded, there's no other words for them.

There are exceptions though, when they're weapons of last resort, or for when you're simply going for pyschological value, or even to threaten MAD. It's when you build them so you can try and haul them out at every opportunity to attempt genocide and planetary destruction with that they really become a problem, and the sad thing is, thats what most II nations use them for. They're for plot device, not conventional warfare.

Oh yeah, you especially shouldn't be even contemplating building them, let alone possessing them, if you're anything below three billion and powerhouse, it just makes you look like a wanker or god modder otherwise.

Don't show up in random situations with battle fleets.

It's stupid, and it makes you look stupid. Enough said. Same thing applies to instant reinforcements.

Reign in your commanders

Seriously, what competent government would seemingly give every single starship commander the authority to open fire on other starships at will?

Granted, starship commanders will be granted large degrees of authority because their unique situations will demand it, but essentially giving commanders the ability to start wars? It's insane, and everyone seems to be doing it, regardless of the prevalence of instant FTL communications in II.

This is the typical situation.

*Fight starts*
*Three or more seperate groups of ships from other nations will jump in*
*Will choose someone they dont like in the original combatants or in the new arrivals and open fire.*

No. Just no.

Magical Omniscience.

I've noticed a recent trend. Some guy's ship will get into a fight somewhere, and some ally will send units to help him, despite the fact that the original combatant never sent any call for reinforcements or aid, the ally will somehow know that this particular unit has managed to get in a fight in that particular system. How does the ally know this? I can only guess magic.

How can we fix this?

Put more thought into your RPs, particularly combat. Explain things logically.

For example, a nice little mock quiz:

"Two starships are fighting each other, you decide to have one of yours jump in. What next?"

"That's easy, I pick one or both of them and open fire!"

<Lex Luthor>WRONG!!</Lex Luthor>

"Fine, what should I do then?

Simple, you should analyze the situation, and decide upon a reason to involve yourself in this fight. It could be that they're slinging high-yield ordinance dangerously close to civilian installations and you feel you should intervene on their behalf, one of them threatens you and you feel the safety of your ship is in imminent danger, all the way to they have technology and information and you want it. But either way, you should have a reason.

Also, consider the risks. If your starship just showed up, he doesn't know the entire situation, and the wrong move on his part could easily turn a minor firefight into a major multi-empire conflict. There are risks to involving yourself wontonly in conflicts. And remember, your characters would also have self-preservation as a goal. Sure, those other guys might be accidentally butchering thousands of civilians as collateral in their fight, but its not your primary responsibility. Your captain's primary responsibility is to his ship and crew.

Finally, if they are content to ignore you by all means enjoy it. You can sit safely outside the combat zone, set the camcorders on, and garner a motherload of combat intel free of charge.

"Alright, I have a reason to get involved. I start shooting."

So what happens when they end up outgunning you? Your ship and crew are dead.

Fight smart. If there's no pressing need to open fire right then, they why not wait? Manuever into a better position, predeploy missiles and EW drones and such. Wait till one of the combatants gets destroyed and then finish off the wounded victor. Try to engage the enemy on terms favorable to you, not him.

Ok, I might have ripped off my tech from 40k, but I like to think I've addressed what I set out to achieve; a nation based around the premise of an Imperium ruled by Chaos, like what would happen if Horus had won. I like to think that I'm a decent enough RPer, and that I've been involved in some of the big events of II.

Frankly all I care about is a good story. I'm a writer, and so I go out of my way to keep at least some standard up in my writing, my work, my art. I try my damnedest to ensure a good quality of writing, and I've clashed swords and traded stories with the best.

That's enough for me in the grand scheme of II :)

Heres to C'tan, CW, Sith, Doom, Tal and the Republic, and all the other RPers who've made it worthwhile to stick around here, and kept me amused, and standards high

Ok, I might have ripped off my tech from 40k, but I like to think I've addressed what I set out to achieve; a nation based around the premise of an Imperium ruled by Chaos, like what would happen if Horus had won. I like to think that I'm a decent enough RPer, and that I've been involved in some of the big events of II.

Frankly all I care about is a good story. I'm a writer, and so I go out of my way to keep at least some standard up in my writing, my work, my art. I try my damnedest to ensure a good quality of writing, and I've clashed swords and traded stories with the best.

That's enough for me in the grand scheme of II :)

Heres to C'tan, CW, Sith, Doom, Tal and the Republic, and all the other RPers who've made it worthwhile to stick around here, and kept me amused, and standards high


You da man Chronosia!

Ok, I might have ripped off my tech from 40k, but I like to think I've addressed what I set out to achieve; a nation based around the premise of an Imperium ruled by Chaos, like what would happen if Horus had won. I like to think that I'm a decent enough RPer, and that I've been involved in some of the big events of II.

Frankly all I care about is a good story. I'm a writer, and so I go out of my way to keep at least some standard up in my writing, my work, my art. I try my damnedest to ensure a good quality of writing, and I've clashed swords and traded stories with the best.

That's enough for me in the grand scheme of II :)

Heres to C'tan, CW, Sith, Doom, Tal and the Republic, and all the other RPers who've made it worthwhile to stick around here, and kept me amused, and standards high

Which is what I meant by:

I'll get the ball rolling. To me, II is a morass of crappy RPing, I'm not going to try and be delicate about it. Every now and then there's a jewel, but typically when I browse the threads in this forum, its for humor value. The sad thing is the jewels tend to get shattered by a horde of morons wielding sledge hammers in short order, which leaves me with just the humor value.

Aw, I'm a jewel :P I didn't want to be arrogant and assume I was a jewel, but I think that there is a lot of potential here. The problem is that too many newbies want too much power far too fast. We can't have such rash ambition stretching at the limits of our patience if we ever want something like the good old days :D

Heres the thing that pisses me off about alot of RPs. It turns into a numbers game, where someone with 5 Billion population claims to send in millions upon millions of troops, without consideration of the Logistical mayhem of that many troops.


I tend to launch realistic sized operations, since i study the military avidly, I know fairly well how a good operation should be run. But when someone tries to launch 5 million infantrymen at me and 500,000 tanks, I practically want to explode (yes, thats a bit exaggerated, since i've never been swamped that badly, but you get the picture).

I wish more people would follow the military, and when fighting wars, actually know how to fight one. (Not that many do not, but there are a few.....)

I'm not sure it's fair, though, to limit people to certain levels of technology simply because they haven't been on NS as long as you have. That's an IC restriction for OOC reasons. If some new kid with a pitiful economy and 100 million pop wants to duke it out with battleships and antimatter tipped warheads, why shouldn't he be able to? Assuming, of course, he's a good RPer. Good RPing != seniority. And I'm not saying this for my benefit, either. I've been around since june 2004.

The best way to get good RPs on II is to ignore the morons, and only play with people you know are good. Don't complain about people with their one thousand, three hundred and thirty-three super diddlyuper star destroyers^2. If they get enjoyment out of plotless numberwanks, let them. Just don't let them in YOUR threads.

(I've been guilty of the allies getting the notice suddenly trend, cept it was my ally. Other then that I haven't done anything. I just hope people enjoy my RP, which reminds me, I need to post in my Hello Kitty thread... look out for it! Other then that I was gonna make this rant, but errm, beat me to it.)

This thread makes me a little, how shall I put it, uneasy. I've been seriously interested in becoming more active in RPs on the NS forum, I currently have one going in the MT realm. But a part of me, that little geek/nerd in me, heh, wants to also have something to do with some of the FT RPs.

To that end I've been carefully crafting an FT reality for my nation, so far it's been more of a theorectical endevor, something to do for fun and my own imagination, but a part of me wants to put it to use. I've tryed to keep up on what goes on in these forums over the year or so I've been here but I haven't seen it all.

But I'm getting off track, I'm no expert on anything really, I play the role playing game for fun and would ideally like to keep it fun and entertaining. I've always been of the opinion that it doesn't really matter what you build in FT, so long as you RP it well. It concerns me that this is a problem on the forum.

This thread makes me a little, how shall I put it, uneasy. I've been seriously interested in becoming more active in RPs on the NS forum, I currently have one going in the MT realm. But a part of me, that little geek/nerd in me, heh, wants to also have something to do with some of the FT RPs.

To that end I've been carefully crafting an FT reality for my nation, so far it's been more of a theorectical endevor, something to do for fun and my own imagination, but a part of me wants to put it to use. I've tryed to keep up on what goes on in these forums over the year or so I've been here but I haven't seen it all.

But I'm getting off track, I'm no expert on anything really, I play the role playing game for fun and would ideally like to keep it fun and entertaining. I've always been of the opinion that it doesn't really matter what you build in FT, so long as you RP it well. It concerns me that this is a problem on the forum.


I agree with you. I like using Star Destroyers and other things, not because I can't come up with something on my own, but because I think they're cool!

Heres the thing that pisses me off about alot of RPs. It turns into a numbers game, where someone with 5 Billion population claims to send in millions upon millions of troops, without consideration of the Logistical mayhem of that many troops.


I tend to launch realistic sized operations, since i study the military avidly, I know fairly well how a good operation should be run. But when someone tries to launch 5 million infantrymen at me and 500,000 tanks, I practically want to explode (yes, thats a bit exaggerated, since i've never been swamped that badly, but you get the picture).

I wish more people would follow the military, and when fighting wars, actually know how to fight one. (Not that many do not, but there are a few.....)


First, older nations pulling off that kind of attack is just as bad as a new nation claiming to infinite numbers in men and ships as well as infinite power. And logistics, as well as most combat support functions, are often neglected across NS entirely, but the difference has become especially pronounced in II FT over recent years.

Also, while cases of older nations being equally abusive do occur, they tend to occur with far less frequency than the opposite way around. Not saying that they do not happen, it is just not quite as common.

A nation of that population size may be able to pull of an en masse attack, but it should come at the expense of military deployments elsewhere (especially on the home front defenses) and should generate a substantial strain on logistics. Also keeping an ungodly--for that is about the best term for it--amount of men under arms at all times would be a major drain on the economy and the nation that pursues that policy should have all the problems of the old Soviet Union magnified by a factor of about ten...thousand.

Yes, their numbers and their size may be impressive upon first glance, but they most likely come at the expense of any sort of support infrastructure and any sort of ability to effectively produce and counter combat losses. After all if you have that many soldiers, sailors, and officers who is left to man the factories, refineries, and mines? The house pets? I think not.


I'm not sure it's fair, though, to limit people to certain levels of technology simply because they haven't been on NS as long as you have. That's an IC restriction for OOC reasons. If some new kid with a pitiful economy and 100 million pop wants to duke it out with battleships and antimatter tipped warheads, why shouldn't he be able to? Assuming, of course, he's a good RPer. Good RPing != seniority. And I'm not saying this for my benefit, either. I've been around since june 2004.

The best way to get good RPs on II is to ignore the morons, and only play with people you know are good. Don't complain about people with their one thousand, three hundred and thirty-three super diddlyuper star destroyers^2. If they get enjoyment out of plotless numberwanks, let them. Just don't let them in YOUR threads.


Ah, to live in a perfect world where all idiots minded their own business. And also to live in a not so freeform RP environment that allowed one to not just allow every random NS user with a forum account to randomly interject their wank fiesta. Unfortunately that perfect world is as elusive as the Second Coming, and NS II seems to be so far in the future that Blizzard might as well be making it. Hell, Starcraft 2 may make its debut before NS II.

But if you are going to completely void all the stats that come with the base account, you must ask why they are even there in the first place. Are they the word of the Almighty transcribed on to stone and given to Moses? Not hardly, but should they at least be the relative basis of your nation with regards to interacting with the rest of the world? It would be nice.

Mostly in regards to just ignoring the random wank abusers that pop up across this--and indeed all--forums, you have to realize that you cannot lock them out of the threads and most of them can be rather insistent upon themselves. If nothing else they make the thread a hassle for everyone else because they have to delve through all the mired crap or wait around until a moderater (May the Great Lord Max bless them for all their work in this area) deletes the offender if it is just complete and utter spam. They are perhaps the most blunt application of the "morons wielding sledge hammer" that you will see on the boards.

Having thrown my weight around some in each tech area, I do agree. Most good RPs are ruined by masses of nations swamping a perfectly good RP, which os why there's something called "CLOSED RP". I like that a lot, and I tend to find that the best RPs are the ones that are planned out, or are on the fly between 2 or 4 good RPers who understand the laws of combat (for both MT and PMT). The other fun part can be the build up into the War. Although it never got off the ground (when I was in it) the Huntaerian revolution between the two jedi sides, the build up was great, discussing tactics that didn't involve blowing up planets, but were more subtle, like poisoning food supplies... but meh... I haven't done much in FT in a long while...

Heres to C'tan, CW, Sith, Doom, Tal and the Republic, and all the other RPers who've made it worthwhile to stick around here, and kept me amused, and standards high

Wow, my alliance and my nation in particular was mentioned by the great evil dooer. I'd like to thank my mom and dad, who always believed in me, and of course I'd like to thank my dog who would always bite my foot while trying to read the next part of the thread...

By the way, you make some good points in this thread, but it makes me think you're saying I'm a sissy and a bad leader.....sometimes you just make me wanna cry....and you made me loose my hard on, your gonna pay for that:mad:

This seems to have died prematurely; I'm actually interested in seeing peoples takes on the subject

Actually, this was why I left FT, close to a year and a half ago (well, a year and two thirds.). Partly it was because of my inactivity, yes, but it was also partly due to the fact that it was becoming the same old thing. There were a few RP'ers who would actually care about the story behind the RP, actually care about the feelings of each character, and I'd RP'ed with all of them (at the time, that is. Here's to you, Chrono'!). It got repetetive and boring.

I like the points raised the this thread, agree with them to quite a large extent, but, honestly, I don't think it'll do anything. This type of thing has been raised over and over again, and, unfortunatly, you've got people who just don't change. Oh well.

I'm sometimes feel I'm guilty of the Big Fleets Waaagh! shtick, despite my glorious reputation. Then again, I always RP my forces being stretched thin, and juggle where I should send ships and troops to, especially with my current Jedi/Sith War AND ESUS/GFFA war raging about at the same time.

And I kinda want to point out that most logistics are actually taken care of due to the long ranges most FT ships have. A random Star Destroyer can handle 6 years before returning to base to restock if necessary, for example, but that obviously depends on the mission.

Well I guess the question is, how do you really expect to see it improved? You'd have to somehow get everyone to play according to certain standards, and I sadly just can't see that happening. The helpful hints are there, and you don't see everyone following them either.

This strikes me as the problem of any 'open' game like this, you're going to have some bad apples and unfortunately just retreating to a private forum isn't helpful, especially becuase there are new players who are good.

In regards to originallity, I presume you mean in storyline. This can be a problem considering how much has already been done. It's hard to be truly original anymore.

Right now I think II's biggest problem has been a night total lack of character development in any way whatsoever. All people do is play with their guns, and their ships, and their egos, without ever allowing us, the readers, to get into the heads of the people behind those guns and ships. It's just 'pew pew I got you!' then it's all over, generally after an argument.

Really, I find it odd; people are RPing their nations but they really are not RPing their nations. What I mean is, they want to have culture, technology, and military to compete with other people, but they never really flesh it out or do anything with it. It's just some noise usually forgotten after the fighting starts. War for example: do any of you here really think that the parents of those soldiers in your society want them to go off and die, on some foreign planet in some foreign part of the galaxy? People live in your nations, and people don't like to see other people die, or come home broken, back from the front of some senseless conflict.

Those people also don't like being killed, or having their FT infrastructure decimated from orbit. Which will invariably happen; war is not just you beating down the other guy; if they they a chance then they will try hurt you as much as you're trying to hurt them. Which will piss your people off, big time. Even in totaltarian dictatorships there are dissenters, and they can be made infinitely worse when they become willing collaborators with the guy you decided to war with.

Afterwards it will take years to repair all the damage, replace destroyed ships and lost soldiers, and at the same time fuel whatever peace movements you'll have for years to come. And why not? If your people live in any way like Americans or hell, the Polish, then they don't like the idea of their livelihoods being threatened by war. So you have to ask yourself how it's a good idea to let commanders, as Vernii pointed out, start what could become total war conflicts with other nations when you know damn well the people in your nation won't like it.

Then again, that's some of the proof that II is in bad shape; people don't RP or even acknowledge the above because they want to play the space equivalent of cowboys and indians. How do we fix it? I'm not sure, people can only really learn by example, but even then, I don't really think many people want to learn. Ever.

I have wondered that since tech is so much more advanced, and therefore it should take much less of your population to run the economy, then why can't you put more people into the military? I mean you can run a mine with a few people and a couple of hundred droids that are programed to do a few jobs, like run this and that. Same with manufacturing, robots build cars in RL, so why can't a single person be able to run a large automated factory or several factories. Same with shipbiulding.and making food. Masive hyrdoincs facilties in orbit could by totaly automated linked to a signle control station. This is the future, so make it more realistic.

I have wondered that since tech is so much more advanced, and therefore it should take much less of your population to run the economy, then why can't you put more people into the military? I mean you can run a mine with a few people and a couple of hundred droids that are programed to do a few jobs, like run this and that. Same with manufacturing, robots build cars in RL, so why can't a single person be able to run a large automated factory or several factories. Same with shipbiulding.and making food. Masive hyrdoincs facilties in orbit could by totaly automated linked to a signle control station. This is the future, so make it more realistic.

And then your economy collapses because nobody has any money to buy stuff with, because they have no job, meaning massive depressions across your nation. Of course, you could go the Roman method, giving out free food, housing, entertainment, etc., but then you need a way to get that free food, which means you need money, which can only come from taxes which you can't have, because nobody has a job. Vicious cycle, really.

War for example: do any of you here really think that the parents of those soldiers in your society want them to go off and die, on some foreign planet in some foreign part of the galaxy? People live in your nations, and people don't like to see other people die, or come home broken, back from the front of some senseless conflict.
I've actually adressed that with my nation, with QUETZAL pulling all non-Red Samurai personel from combat positions. Much better to have Avatar vessels and combat drones take the risks. Of coruse, then again, I'm one of the people with his own tech, pretty good character development (well, I think so at least), and

I have wondered that since tech is so much more advanced, and therefore it should take much less of your population to run the economy, then why can't you put more people into the military? I mean you can run a mine with a few people and a couple of hundred droids that are programed to do a few jobs, like run this and that. Same with manufacturing, robots build cars in RL, so why can't a single person be able to run a large automated factory or several factories. Same with shipbiulding.and making food. Masive hyrdoincs facilties in orbit could by totaly automated linked to a signle control station. This is the future, so make it more realistic.

For one, droids and robots and all analogous machines therein count towards your population; it's to keep people fron spluging all over the universe with a droid army in the trillions or such.

Two, you still have those people, now they're just unemployed, sucking on welfare. Unless you toss them into the military, then you have the problem of half of your GDP or so going to fund and maintain that very military of yours. Either way you end up crippling your economy and weakening yourself further regardless of this being future tech or not.

Because unless you're doing conscription, why would you have an enormous military? Aside from the ridiculous amount of resources required, why do people want to join the military in a time when killing is so easy and there are so many enemies?

For example, my people in GII, the Nagorii, are not warriors. On the contrary, they have very minor telekinetic abilities and almost no physical strength. The entirety of their ground forces and ship-to-ship forces are made of droids. There are VERY few people in the military and most people who are do maintenance on the ships and droids. Primarily, the population is involved in art, architecture and science. Only about 0.2% of the Nagorii are in the military in any form, including maintenance and on-board science officers.

So in a future full of civilized peoples, why would there be a great demand for the military?

I'm sometimes feel I'm guilty of the Big Fleets Waaagh! shtick, despite my glorious reputation. Then again, I always RP my forces being stretched thin, and juggle where I should send ships and troops to, especially with my current Jedi/Sith War AND ESUS/GFFA war raging about at the same time.

And I kinda want to point out that most logistics are actually taken care of due to the long ranges most FT ships have. A random Star Destroyer can handle 6 years before returning to base to restock if necessary, for example, but that obviously depends on the mission.

It is true an interstellar warship can carry quite the considerable amount of supplies, although carrying that large of reserve most likely means you had to sacrifice something else. However, while a ship can carry a lot of supplies and and provide for the needs of its crew this does not mean it can carry everything it needs. This applies especially if a ship is in a combat zone or participating in a war. A ship that is seeing considerable action is going to take damage that cannot be repaired by its crew and that it will not have parts for lying about in the storage closet. In order to make itself fully operational again it will most likely need to return to either a full shipyard or a dry dock facility. Also if a ship is repeatedly going through combat it will burn through even surplus munitions faster than normal, or whatever your particular FT equivalent of this element is.

Finally a ship deployed to support a terrestrial combat operation is going to literally feel like it is just spewing supplies into the vacuum. Sure the regular crew might be just sitting in orbit watching the whole affair from above (and doing decidedly little unless your enemy shows up to try and break your orbital superiority), but your army, or marines, are not. The maxim about an army still marching on its stomach is still very, very true and nothing will eat like a soldier on combat duty. Submarines and other naval vessel in the United States Navy regularly carry double the supplies they normal would if they are even just transporting SEAL teams because they eat that much. They have been trained to need a greater amount of fuel for their metabolisms, and they need it.

So, unless your ship is just on perpetual patrol with no major combat situations in sight or is not going to be used as an orbital support platform, you are going to need greater logistical support than just your ship stores. And most captains will want to know they have something else to fall back on in the event of an emergency. After all what happens if an errant salvo ruptures the water tanks? A lucky missile burns through the ration supplies? Or maybe some shot manages to damage, or even set off, a magazine or reactor? Your blowing your supplies straight out into the vacuum, literally. Most captains are aware of the risk of combat and will want to know they can either whistle up a fleet tender or can get back with relative speed to a suitable repair and resupply anchorage.

As for supporting terrestrial operations, you might as well just be ready to send out another transport specifically for the needs of providing support services for the forces on the ground. Unless you just happen to have a full blown fleet in orbit, and even then it might still be wise unless you want the great gluttony that is an army sponging off your fleet's limited resources


Well I guess the question is, how do you really expect to see it improved? You'd have to somehow get everyone to play according to certain standards, and I sadly just can't see that happening. The helpful hints are there, and you don't see everyone following them either.

This strikes me as the problem of any 'open' game like this, you're going to have some bad apples and unfortunately just retreating to a private forum isn't helpful, especially becuase there are new players who are good.

In regards to originallity, I presume you mean in storyline. This can be a problem considering how much has already been done. It's hard to be truly original anymore.


I would very much disagree. Yes, it is true that the fact this is an open RP environment makes it much harder to control the idiots from just popping in and ruining the affair with their blather, but that should not excuse people who are actually conducting a decent RP to lower themselves to the same level and RP like every moron that comes along. You ask him to leave and if that doesn't work just act like his posts aren't there. If something stupid comes of this (IE-blatant flaming or trolling) turn him in, and then the problem will most likely vanish.

I would agree that pure originality in terms of the sum plot of a thread may be hard, if not impossible, to create. But that does not excuse the fact that almost all the threads deal with the same issues in exactly the same manner. The basic concepts may not be original any more, but you can address them from different angles and in different manners than have been previously. Because right now the only angle II seems to have is: massive war fleets meet, massive waves of missiles and lasers fire, and (if it is a moderately decent war) someone suddenly losses. The alternative, and increasingly common, ending is that both sides summon up their allied support and someone points a finger at someone else and shouts "WANK!" and the thread goes down hill from there.

Whether it is war, diplomacy, or anything else there is no real development beyond the most basic level. There's no real development of the background (Why is there a war? Are all sides so sure that war is a good idea? Is there any opposition on the home front from anti-war factions? Is the war generating a crisis in the government or the military? How is it impacting the lives of the officers and crew on the frontline?), and there is no real development of individual characters--unless there is some lucky admiral or captain who manages to get shoved to the front. Setting a new trend in II could just be throwing in a subplot that shows what is going on in your nation besides the battles on the front. You see that every now and then for maybe one post and then it vanishes, but it is not something you should hold your breath waiting for--otherwise you will be keeling over.

I don't think total originality is being expected here. I think what is being expected is that a new look on the same old same old be tried for once.

Very good points there Valinon, something to keep in mind.

For one, droids and robots and all analogous machines therein count towards your population; it's to keep people fron spluging all over the universe with a droid army in the trillions or such.

I don't quite agree with this, as I don't count my Combat Avatars. Of course, my mil-spec Avatars are expensive, so the amount I have is rather more limited than the aforementioned trillions... In civilian matters, one has to take into account how expensive droids are when compared to meatbags, which are very, VERY cheap, although their build time is slightly obscene. ;) So, while you can simply throw money at the problem by using droids, it will tend to adversely affect your economy, and then you have to take into account the jobs required to build/design/market/etc the damn things... Of course, these are all skilled labor, meaning working-class meatbags are still out of a job, driving down your economy yet again.

I think what adds to the total lack of background/character development/etc. is the fact that the few nations that try to do said background/character development/etc. get bogged down in RP. What I mean is that they post about...say, a mining expedition. Then "X-iania" joins in with uberfleetofdoom and "Y-iania" attacks both "X-iania" and "Good RP'er". So "Good RP'er" has to fight both, while either RP'ing well (And getting smashed) or RP'ing as they do. So, the only solution I got was closed RP's, which limited contact with everybody, unfortunatly.

Yes, it is the typical fate of all threads that actually try to be an RP in II. For this I have prepared a visual aid. Allow me to demonstrate!

*sets up a reel projector and screen*

5...

*beep*

4...

*beep*

3...

*beep*

2...

*beep*

1...

*beep*

*FANFARE!*

The Most Unfortunate and Sad Events of the Life of an II Thread

One day three nations--tired of the usual wars, civil wars, colonial insurrections, and anti-pirate patrols--come together and decide to create a new thread that will allow them to develop their nations backgrounds. It is to be a wonderful coronation ball. The stage is set the players arrive and all appears to be going well until...

*Empire of TEH WANG stumbles in with TEH WANG STAR DESTROYER FLEET, strolls John Wayne style toward the thread*

TEH WANG: Hey, baby, bet you have never seen a WANG FLEET this larger before. Come here...

The Thread, being young and naive, tries to be polite and disengage with as little conflict as possible

Thread: Er..no..

The Thread continues on, conversing with the players and waving happily toward a few distant observers who are reading and debating about coming and RPiing. TEH WANG looks on for a few moments, either too stupid to realize what has happened or disbelieving that The Thread would dare just disregard him. TEH WANG lumbers back toward The Thread and grabs her.

TEH WANG: Come here, you! You've never felt TEH WANG fleet before! It's huge! And you'll get to feel all of it. Watch as a I blow your friends away with TEH WANG SALVO!

The Thread: NO MEANS NO!

The Thread slaps TEH WANG and struggles, desperate to avoid what is coming.

TEH WANG: Oh, yeah!?!?!?!? That's what you think you can do? That's what you think. You're going to feel the might of TEH WANG and know that it can beat you senseless!

The Thread: AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

At this point TEH WANG emplacements are inserted into <CENSORED> and TEH WANG salvo is spewed into the area of <CENSORED>. Sobs fill the air along with the sound of scampering and scrambling as the distant observers bolt and the players make a run for it as well, desperately not wanting to drown under the salvos of TEH WANG. A few bold, daring souls shout and try to save The Thread, but it is too late. They too are sucked down by the stupidity and brutality of TEH WANG.

TEH WANG: BWHAHAHAHAHAH! ALL JOOR BASES ARE BELONG TO TEH WANG!

FIN!

*very nearly dies of laughing, then realizes he doing so, and stops*

Valinon, you're sort of biased in that, aren't you? Being someone who frequents to Nationstates forum, eh? Natural hatred of I.I.'ers? ;) (I hope you know I'm just kidding). My main problem with RP'ing in the other forum is the lack of opportunity - they tend to have a group, and let no one. So I'm stuck here. That's why I don't RP FT anymore...there are some very good MT RP'ers here in I.I. and I the distinct good fortune of being friends with several of them.

[/off topic]

And... quoted.

you might as well be Lichtenstein or San Marino for how much you matter in the food chain. Never heard of either of those nations? My point is made.
Ironically enough, I've heard of both of those nations.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that I do have a stubborn streak and was amoung the noob ranks when I first joined NS and was a bit of a n00b as well at the time. I will also point out that I've learned and gotten better. I can only get better, of course, that's up to a point. As a human, like everyone else here, I have a limit as to what I can do.

Now, I also would like to point out that its not noobs you are having trouble with, but n00bs, an entire different species. Noobs, sometimes spelled as newbs or newbies, are just those of us who need to be nurtured and taught so that they can reach their penultimate level of ability. A n00b, on the other hand, is what you have been talking about.

I was wondering about the matter of using NS population figures for FT nations. It seems to me that there's no need to have a star empire if you don't have more people than your one planet can hold. Seeing as we have near 7 billion on Earth, and are still happily chugging along, it would stand to reason that no current NS Nation (or world depending on how you want to look at it...) would have gone over the brink and needed to colonize other planets. Are we expected to believe that populations will not have grown exponentially over the 1000 or so years between our MT Nations, and our FT Empires?

On this note, for my GII Nation, I've used a factor of 100 to increase my population... It seems appropriate. Size will still be relative, which is good, but it will also be believable.

Opinions?

Some nations may reside on a desert world or an ocean world, and have legitimate need to colonize elsewhere. Also we may be 'chugging along' right now, but I'd dare say it's getting close to the point that 6 billion people on a world that is barely half industrialized is too much, far too much really. Just think if every starving person in the world had food, or if every country had major automobile traffic, well we'd run out of natural resources quick. So sometimes it's best to colonize other worlds just to keep us below carrying capacity.

Chugging along quite happily whilst having almost totally depleted oil and coal whilst causing nigh irrepairable damage in the process.

At any rate, you're assuming worlds have as much habitable land mass as Earth. Some might have more, some might have less. You really have to take the following factors into consideration regarding colonization;

Habitable land mass
Natural resources
Food production
Energy consumption/pollution

There is only so much you can have on one planet before you begin to destroy it, afterall. Currently we haven't even seriously colonized half of the planet in land mass terms, and yet we are causing horrendous damage to our world. Consider that a nation gets around this, it can only last so long. No matter how clean the energy is, eventually areas become too hot to inhabit due to sheer energy production.

There are many more arguements to be had, but if you consider that for every Earth-sized planet you have, about 2-4bn is the ideal population, then some people require multiple planets.

Of course with FT, people really can play with as large or small a nation as they like. Fact remains who wants to RP a behemoth? Only someone easily amused by destroying everything that faces them...

Of course with FT, people really can play with as large or small a nation as they like. Fact remains who wants to RP a behemoth? Only someone easily amused by destroying everything that faces them...

I do! I do! I do!

Good point, but two things:

1) How many NS Nations have 6 billion + citizens?

2) What about newer nations such as yourself (Joranhor)? 5 million people would need an interesting backstory to explain how they'd become a futuristic star empire.

Then there's those who start their IC RPed history as being in the middle of their nation's timeline and backstory.

Others, RP from first ship launch from a single planet and build from there.

Yet others till RP building up through the tech levels. Sometimes from as far back as Stone Age tech.

Of course with FT, people really can play with as large or small a nation as they like. Fact remains who wants to RP a behemoth? Only someone easily amused by destroying everything that faces them...

*nods and scratches chin*

I would, but not because I want to destroy everything, but because it makes for a more realistic and interesting feel for the worlds and civilizations. You can read my history if you want to see how I played with the situation of a planet dying. Anyway... I'm still looking for a good FT RP, preferably one without a fullscale war. Any ideas?

Well, I'm 7 bill and I started my history from when I first achieved interstellar travel, the birth of the Imperium, leading up to the Fall and the establishment of the true Imperium, the subsequent reconquest and expansion, all the way through to the second age of Imperium, which we arrive at today, also known as the "Age of Remiel"

*secretly hopes I'm not an example of such corrupting forces described in the OP*

Well, I'm 7 bill and I started my history from when I first achieved interstellar travel, the birth of the Imperium, leading up to the Fall and the establishment of the true Imperium, the subsequent reconquest and expansion, all the way through to the second age of Imperium, which we arrive at today, also known as the "Age of Remiel"
BWAHAHAHA! I have you beat! My history extends from WWII and (with limited gaps, soon to be filled due to computer access at work) goes up to slightly beyond present day (FT present day, that is), with the beyond being my secret plans for universal domi-

You know what, forget I said that, yes? ;)

Now, I'll be the first to admit that I do have a stubborn streak and was amoung the noob ranks when I first joined NS and was a bit of a n00b as well at the time. I will also point out that I've learned and gotten better. I can only get better, of course, that's up to a point. As a human, like everyone else here, I have a limit as to what I can do.

Now, I also would like to point out that its not noobs you are having trouble with, but n00bs, an entire different species. Noobs, sometimes spelled as newbs or newbies, are just those of us who need to be nurtured and taught so that they can reach their penultimate level of ability. A n00b, on the other hand, is what you have been talking about.

There is just one small problem with your theory, SeaQuest. Nations that have been active for a half a year, or longer, still behave like they were still new to the game as of yesterday. I've read stuff that looks like it could have come from the mind of someone who just created an account, immediately logged into the forums, and then started churning out of the massive death machines. Then I look at the info and almost have a blood vessel in my brain explode when the nation was founded in November of 2005.

With this in mind, and indeed the majority of plots in this forum to begin with, I fail to see how a new player will be "educated" to be any better. How could he learn anything different when players that are "senior" or at least "matured" don't behave any differently than what this other random player (reference The Most Unfortunate and Sad Events of the Life of an II Thread) are doing? He cannot, you simply cannot learn what you aren't taught. Unless we are going to talk about trial and error, but judging from the thread landscape now trial and error takes a hell of a long time and most people lose interest before they achieve success.


I was wondering about the matter of using NS population figures for FT nations. It seems to me that there's no need to have a star empire if you don't have more people than your one planet can hold. Seeing as we have near 7 billion on Earth, and are still happily chugging along, it would stand to reason that no current NS Nation (or world depending on how you want to look at it...) would have gone over the brink and needed to colonize other planets. Are we expected to believe that populations will not have grown exponentially over the 1000 or so years between our MT Nations, and our FT Empires?

On this note, for my GII Nation, I've used a factor of 100 to increase my population... It seems appropriate. Size will still be relative, which is good, but it will also be believable.

Opinions?


For starters there are not that many science fiction plots that have an Earth exodus as its plot device for colonization with colonies that generally exceed the population of the mother planet. Look at Babylon 5's Earth Alliance, Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy, Ben Bova's science fiction, or Clarke's Imperial Earth. In all cases Earth is still the planet with the largest population. Her colonies have large populations of their own, but generally they are only a fraction of what the Earth's is.

Indeed the most common way you will see a SF story with worlds greater than Earth's population is either some great cataclysm has occurred and either totally destroyed or severely "wounded" Earth or humans are some sort of vast interstellar civilization that covers either part or the entire galaxy. Examples of this include Star Trek's Federation, the Honor Harrington novels (although Earth's population here is still quite substantial), and Asimov's Foundation story arc.

In the NS universe (grudgingly I will admit it is a "multiverse") it is simply not possible for a new nation to become a galaxy spanning empire overnight. For starters there are established powers that have been here a lot longer in both this fourm and in Nationstates. To disregard their claims when many of them are substantially backed by intensive years of RP and displays of considerable effort in regards to writing and storytelling is nothing more that disrespect of the worst kind. Something doesn't agree with you so you just throw it out? That doesn't seem right, especially in a freeform RP environment. Join one of the several million (alright there probably aren't that many but it seems like it) multiverses or create your own new galaxy or just "reclusive" portion of the current galaxy. It's not that hard and you can even make it look and "be" Earth if you want, rather than just disrespecting another player.

The population of your main nation should be used as a reasonable means by which to base (but not entirely dictate your stats). Otherwise what point is there in playing the game over a long period of time, developing years of RP, and then having it all torn down when some random nation who just joined yesterday shows up wrecks your RP with his vast undying hordes and then rolls off into the sunset of lollerskates?

Can you RP a larger population than that of your national account? Sure. I will admit that even I do this. I use the "fictional" populace as an RP setting backdrop (IE-to give the individual worlds of Valinon more distinction and more realism), but I maintain that I do not use this to influence the creation or maintenance of my military. Simple fact of the matter is if you cannot field a decent military out of a population that is as big or greater than that of the entire Earth as we know it then what business do you have in having a military at all? One percent of seven billion is a considerable number, much less five, ten, or even fifteen. And why do you need numbers if you have access to the kind of technological possibilities that come with the FT territory, even if you do rule out strategic super-weapons?

Your military does not have to be everywhere in the galaxy at once. Its main concern should be protecting the integrity of your borders, maintaining the safety of your citizens (and their property), and being able to confront a war on a few (one to three not the sixteen thousand that some threads seem to talk about) fronts with a expectation of being able to hold against reasonable odds until help can be summoned from one of your main bases. Having an entire carrier group, battle fleet, or entire armada for each system is utterly ridiculous. Not only it is expensive, it suggests that all parts of an empire or star nation are of equal importance. What nation in the history mankind has ever had subdivisions that were all as important as one another? The simple fact of it all is some provinces, systems, et cetera, are going to be more important than the backwater outposts or fledglingly colony of disheartened religious groups. Defending everyone of them like they are a primary world stretches a nation too far and creates a military that can do nothing but hold the line. It will have abandoned the policies of offense, or will have severely limited them, in order to place additional resources to defense.

FT does allow considerable free reign in regards to technology and more, but to suggest that by moving to FT you will abandon all past history and development is somewhat absurd. If you are a human nation you would still have this engrained into you because that is what has occurred across our history, and if there is one thing that is hard to overcome, if not impossible, it is the past. If you are an alien nation in FT that means you have survived trials just as bad, if not worse, than those of the human race. You are a survivalist and evolution dictates your course, so why shouldn't you behave like it does?

Hmmm, well I haven't abandoned all past history... I wrote all of my history from around 2020 to ~3000. I had to present how one corporation came to span the globe, and then how it managed to evacuate our species from a dying planet, and then how it colonized two solar systems. Still, I understand your concerns. I don't even have an offensive military, only a "Security Force". Why numbers though? Maybe the military pays well... Maybe your tech tree opted to avoid automation to a large extent. I don't know. I have halved my military though after considering this. It was ridiculously large...

I do hope I'm not considered part of the problem. I will admit that some of my tech is rather uber, but it's damn fun to use and makes things move alot smoother. If in MT we have telephones that can connect us right away, why not in the future have some kind of device that can as well? But then I agree with not letting any Captain Joe start an intergalactic war, which is why I can have instant communications, but I take time to have my Senate debate the issue.

Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to publicise my war with Chronosia, the Gods and Legions thread as it is called. Go check it out, hopefully it will redeem a bit of I.I's reputation.

Well I guess the question is, how do you really expect to see it improved? You'd have to somehow get everyone to play according to certain standards, and I sadly just can't see that happening.

Nor should anybody try. People come here to have fun, not to do what NATION_582862 decides is fun. Stick a 'Closed' tag on your threads, inviting only people you want to RP with.



The two biggest problems on this forum that I can see are modesty and egotism. Specifically, we have a deficit of the former and a surplus of the latter. There are some people who want to be the big bad lords of the forums, and some people who think they already are and have no qualms with telling people about it. The results are far-fetched and explosive. Pretty to watch, but not much fun to be caught in.

If in MT we have telephones that can connect us right away, why not in the future have some kind of device that can as well?

This raises a whole load of points which most Sci-Fi shows miss and introduces what I've got planned for my coming soon FT intro, the point being raised is that if we can do somthing in MT or PMT then that can be done better in FT, eg. For my PMT nation I use a complex system of nanochips (anyone who has RP'd against my Toxitroopers knows what I'm talking about) so for my FT nation I was planning on using the same tech made insane by advancements, if anyones interested then TG me, I've been looking for someone to be chief giunea pig in this new tech.

There is just one small problem with your theory, SeaQuest. Nations that have been active for a half a year, or longer, still behave like they were still new to the game as of yesterday. I've read stuff that looks like it could have come from the mind of someone who just created an account, immediately logged into the forums, and then started churning out of the massive death machines. Then I look at the info and almost have a blood vessel in my brain explode when the nation was founded in November of 2005.

By definition, that nation would qualify as a n00b. With the n00b species, age is of no concern. There are those that are just beyond help.

With this in mind, and indeed the majority of plots in this forum to begin with, I fail to see how a new player will be "educated" to be any better. How could he learn anything different when players that are "senior" or at least "matured" don't behave any differently than what this other random player (reference The Most Unfortunate and Sad Events of the Life of an II Thread) are doing? He cannot, you simply cannot learn what you aren't taught. Unless we are going to talk about trial and error, but judging from the thread landscape now trial and error takes a hell of a long time and most people lose interest before they achieve success.

Agreed. But you never know if someone could get better unless one tries to explore their potential.

For starters there are not that many science fiction plots that have an Earth exodus as its plot device for colonization with colonies that generally exceed the population of the mother planet. Look at Babylon 5's Earth Alliance, Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy, Ben Bova's science fiction, or Clarke's Imperial Earth. In all cases Earth is still the planet with the largest population. Her colonies have large populations of their own, but generally they are only a fraction of what the Earth's is.

Agreed. SF is pretty much played out these days. Shame we didn't have modorn tech back in the old glory days, then we would have some good high quality movies and series with original stories.

These days, all the good shows don't last that long because the industry is more interested in the bottom line than getting a good story.

Indeed the most common way you will see a SF story with worlds greater than Earth's population is either some great cataclysm has occurred and either totally destroyed or severely "wounded" Earth or humans are some sort of vast interstellar civilization that covers either part or the entire galaxy. Examples of this include Star Trek's Federation, the Honor Harrington novels (although Earth's population here is still quite substantial), and Asimov's Foundation story arc.

You forgot the Andromeda series. So far in the future, combined with the canon backstory, that Earth is pretty much not the center of humanity anymore.

Though, I agree, lots of sci-fi, and NS nations by extension, are highly Earth-centric.

In the NS universe (grudgingly I will admit it is a "multiverse") it is simply not possible for a new nation to become a galaxy spanning empire overnight. For starters there are established powers that have been here a lot longer in both this fourm and in Nationstates. To disregard their claims when many of them are substantially backed by intensive years of RP and displays of considerable effort in regards to writing and storytelling is nothing more that disrespect of the worst kind. Something doesn't agree with you so you just throw it out? That doesn't seem right, especially in a freeform RP environment. Join one of the several million (alright there probably aren't that many but it seems like it) multiverses or create your own new galaxy or just "reclusive" portion of the current galaxy. It's not that hard and you can even make it look and "be" Earth if you want, rather than just disrespecting another player.

Ahh, the old 'instant space empire' syndrome.

Hell, I admit I was a little like that at first, but I'm currently in the process of altering SQ, my main nation, to have a expanded back story and other stuff that changes that.

IMHO, there is only one Earth in the standard NS-verse. The one in the Sol star system, known as Earth Prime. All the others are, IMHO, clones, be it temporal, dimensional, or something else, of the original.

And, given the laws of chance and the law of averages, there is a high probability that a world could exist that looks exactly like 20th century Earth's continent position and everything. The universe is just to freaking big for the odds to be against it.

The population of your main nation should be used as a reasonable means by which to base (but not entirely dictate your stats). Otherwise what point is there in playing the game over a long period of time, developing years of RP, and then having it all torn down when some random nation who just joined yesterday shows up wrecks your RP with his vast undying hordes and then rolls off into the sunset of lollerskates?

IMHO, it should be based on a nation-by-nation basis, not just by the main nation alone.

Though, I agree, there are a handful of uber-n00bs on NS that pop in with warfleets out the arse that are God-wanked into invincibility with numbers pulled straight out of the ass.

Can you RP a larger population than that of your national account? Sure. I will admit that even I do this. I use the "fictional" populace as an RP setting backdrop (IE-to give the individual worlds of Valinon more distinction and more realism), but I maintain that I do not use this to influence the creation or maintenance of my military. Simple fact of the matter is if you cannot field a decent military out of a population that is as big or greater than that of the entire Earth as we know it then what business do you have in having a military at all? One percent of seven billion is a considerable number, much less five, ten, or even fifteen. And why do you need numbers if you have access to the kind of technological possibilities that come with the FT territory, even if you do rule out strategic super-weapons?

Personally, I agree with using the given NS population instead of number-wanking (what it is IMO) it larger.

TBH, I use 5% of it for my military High Guard and a second 5% for my civilian Home Guard. That's including logistics for both. That's not including private freighters and other craft.

Your military does not have to be everywhere in the galaxy at once. Its main concern should be protecting the integrity of your borders, maintaining the safety of your citizens (and their property), and being able to confront a war on a few (one to three not the sixteen thousand that some threads seem to talk about) fronts with a expectation of being able to hold against reasonable odds until help can be summoned from one of your main bases. Having an entire carrier group, battle fleet, or entire armada for each system is utterly ridiculous. Not only it is expensive, it suggests that all parts of an empire or star nation are of equal importance. What nation in the history mankind has ever had subdivisions that were all as important as one another? The simple fact of it all is some provinces, systems, et cetera, are going to be more important than the backwater outposts or fledglingly colony of disheartened religious groups. Defending everyone of them like they are a primary world stretches a nation too far and creates a military that can do nothing but hold the line. It will have abandoned the policies of offense, or will have severely limited them, in order to place additional resources to defense.

Agreed. The instant deployment is a problem these days on NS.

Hell, even in my noobish n00b days, I still RPed the deployment and gave the other RPer(s) at least one post to react.

Truth be told, that's playing into my current naval deployment of my High Guard and Home Guard fleets. Too much space and too few ships to keep it all under control, so lots of local 'warlords' have cropped up here and there.

FT does allow considerable free reign in regards to technology and more, but to suggest that by moving to FT you will abandon all past history and development is somewhat absurd. If you are a human nation you would still have this engrained into you because that is what has occurred across our history, and if there is one thing that is hard to overcome, if not impossible, it is the past. If you are an alien nation in FT that means you have survived trials just as bad, if not worse, than those of the human race. You are a survivalist and evolution dictates your course, so why shouldn't you behave like it does?

Agreed. Though, with the number of canons, fanons, and already-done-on-NS, its quite hard to find something original to do tech wise here. For example, my original Nova Bombs (which need a rename) were something I created that I've not heard of anything similar anywhere (if you discount the similarity with the canon Andromeda weapon's name (name is similar only)).

Likewise the Nagorii, my G2 species, developed the internet. After determining the various uses, it reached a point where all people recieve extensive surgery to the brain linking them to the internet or 'Hive Mind Complex'. It is taken largely from Ghost in the Shell, however I have personalized it to a small degree.


Personally I would never ever deploy anything larger than 2 capital ships with 10 other support craft in a single engagement outside a primary system or to defend a strategically important world. When encountering other species, why do people have enormous fleets? Whilst carrying out searches, why do people have entire fleets?

I have seen many skirmishes, descend into all-out war, the most notable started off as a planets first space launch. Within a week there were about 4 factions each of whom had called in fleets in excess of 30-40 ships, largely capitals. Why do people throw away such enormous numbers, countless value in resources, over a piece of space with no strategic value whatsoever? A prime thing people could do with learning is that just because your ship/small fleet is attacked and destroyed, doesn't mean you should immediately deploy your entire army there for revenge. Why not enter peace talks to discern what happened? Or else wait for the enemy to let down its' guard or enter your space where you have more resources at hand? The problem as I see it is people refuse to lose a small, inconsequential encounter and so feel a need to show their strength in all its 'glory'.

I do hope I'm not considered part of the problem. I will admit that some of my tech is rather uber, but it's damn fun to use and makes things move alot smoother. If in MT we have telephones that can connect us right away, why not in the future have some kind of device that can as well? But then I agree with not letting any Captain Joe start an intergalactic war, which is why I can have instant communications, but I take time to have my Senate debate the issue.

Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to publicise my war with Chronosia, the Gods and Legions thread as it is called. Go check it out, hopefully it will redeem a bit of I.I's reputation.

I'll have to agree with Taledonia on this. Who cares what tech one has and how powerful it is. NS is about getting a good and fun story RPG going. Far to many wars going on in FT these days and hardly anything else, IMHO.

Nor should anybody try. People come here to have fun, not to do what NATION_582862 decides is fun. Stick a 'Closed' tag on your threads, inviting only people you want to RP with.



The two biggest problems on this forum that I can see are modesty and egotism. Specifically, we have a deficit of the former and a surplus of the latter. There are some people who want to be the big bad lords of the forums, and some people who think they already are and have no qualms with telling people about it. The results are far-fetched and explosive. Pretty to watch, but not much fun to be caught in.
With a closed thread, you may only get those who you know are good, I'll give you that. However, it also blocks you from meeting any new RPers that could potentially be even better.

In that case you start a sign up and demand proof of skill :)

This raises a whole load of points which most Sci-Fi shows miss and introduces what I've got planned for my coming soon FT intro, the point being raised is that if we can do somthing in MT or PMT then that can be done better in FT, eg. For my PMT nation I use a complex system of nanochips (anyone who has RP'd against my Toxitroopers knows what I'm talking about) so for my FT nation I was planning on using the same tech made insane by advancements, if anyones interested then TG me, I've been looking for someone to be chief giunea pig in this new tech.
Is that a suggestion for a potential FT RP?

In that case you start a sign up and demand proof of skill :)
Meh, I'll conceede that you've got a point there. Though, what about new nations who are just as good as anyone else and its there first time RPing IC? What if its a puppet of someone who's well-known on NS and doesn't want it to be known its him/her so they can start from scratch?

In that case you start a sign up and demand proof of skill

But how can you get proof if they're a new player who's just joining in on NS?

Is that a suggestion for a potential FT RP?

Yeah, I really should have posted a sign up thread rather than shamelessly plugging it on another thread but still...

In that case, they must be tested! Much like the ESUS tests people who wish to join it. Or how I test people who wish to join my medley of Malkavian Mayhem!

For example they should be able to write more than a sentence, use adjectives, show development....Be literate, all sorts of little pointers that show potential.

They must also be sexy!

As Sexy If Not Sexier Than Tcg!

I must say that this thread is a breathe of fresh air. My hat is off to you Vernii, it truly is. The standards these days have slipped beyond some proportion and it is fair to say that all are guilty at one point or another of having done the forementioned things. However it is through these trials that one becomes a better role player, becoming as Vernii said "jewels" which are a shining example to us all.

However it should not be the ambition of new players or some older ones to emulate these examples. Chronosia, who has my upper-most repsect (as my quote in his sig will show), knows of how this is. When I first started off I began as MT and grudually started into FT. I had the help of Parlim, a nation who has sadly lost touch with NS due to his reflection on the very subject discussed in this thread.

So, in ending, I simply encourage those who are new to read more carefully the rps they idolize and to craft your own style. Detail, detail, detail. Its all about it. Without it you have simple lines like "I shot you, your dead" and other perverse and undeserving of digital ink posts. So therefore, work harder, and be smarter. Best thing you can do.

Chron, *tips hat*. And word of the wise: Watch out for Chrons bloodthirster, nasty temper.

Regarding the population problem, Sagit once was an extensive space empire, but an as yet unspecified Great Disaster cut our numbers down to 5 million. We still had our starships, but the numbers were limited and we lacked the manpower for any really BIG ships. Now that Sagit is up around 800 million, we have a lot more regular ships and a few MegaShips (about the size of a Star Destroyer). However, we're really explorers, not warriors, and we're more likely to have encounters involving less than a dozen ships the size of a Galaxy-Class starship, not a giant uber-fleet. Our fleet is too spread out for instant communication, so it's possible for a Captain Cowboy to start a war, but it's unlikely because we try to avoid putting reckless loose cannons in charge of starships, and our captains are accountable for any actions they take.

Unfortunately, I haven't done much actual RP, partly because I'm not that good at detailed storytelling (I'm better at making up background), partly because I usually don't have enough time, and partly because of the n00b problems already mentioned.

For example they should be able to write more than a sentence, use adjectives, show development....Be literate, all sorts of little pointers that show potential.
First off, some well written NSers can still be n00bs.

Second thing, sometimes a short, one liner is all that's needed.

Now, I know alot of FTers around like filling their posts with various fluff, but I prefer to make my posts short and to the point. No sense in wasting time with filler fluff that serves no purpose.

Seaquest, you often dollop fluff on people. What I mean is, posts should be well written. One line impresses no one, its a waste. Its like sending a one word txt message and wasting 10p. I'm not saying it should be a novel, but a decent length of post. If they can write, theres less chance of them being a n00b.

That sort of person has more potential than the mis-spelled one line poster.

This raises a whole load of points which most Sci-Fi shows miss and introduces what I've got planned for my coming soon FT intro, the point being raised is that if we can do somthing in MT or PMT then that can be done better in FT, eg. For my PMT nation I use a complex system of nanochips (anyone who has RP'd against my Toxitroopers knows what I'm talking about) so for my FT nation I was planning on using the same tech made insane by advancements, if anyones interested then TG me, I've been looking for someone to be chief giunea pig in this new tech.
Ironically, even this is unoriginal (if unintentionally). I've been using such a system since my inseption to both run a direct democracy and as hardware fora super-intelligent AI. So, want to buy a few QUETZAL chips? Going cheap!

Ironically, even this is unoriginal (if unintentionally). I've been using such a system since my inseption to both run a direct democracy and as hardware fora super-intelligent AI. So, want to buy a few QUETZAL chips? Going cheap!

Hell no, I'll use Toopoxican Organisation brand equipment, and despite the similarities between our tech there has to be major differences, for example my ships are controlled not by Humans or an AI but both, a Human personality within the shell of technology, always learning and better able to understand events, my ships also have an ability to rebuild or change shape thanks to a system of nano-technology, second I don't have a nation persay, the way I'm RPing it is by having single ships released across the galaxy but in quite numerous amounts, third, invasions are made by downloading a human personality into a specifically created vessel made for the job of destroying the particular race I'm targetting, fourth, I operate on the "wounded seal" tactic, by relaying a message of "need assistance" any nation which reads the message will be opening a channel to the ship in which a seperate human personality can be downloaded to the other ships AI and of course take over operations meaning I can clear out an enemy ship quickly and take it over ready to form a larger fleet who will eventually converge.

I know this all sounds quite wanky but I'm planning on RPing it so it's just right.

Seaquest, you often dollop fluff on people. What I mean is, posts should be well written. One line impresses no one, its a waste. Its like sending a one word txt message and wasting 10p. I'm not saying it should be a novel, but a decent length of post. If they can write, theres less chance of them being a n00b.

That sort of person has more potential than the mis-spelled one line poster.

Fluff is wasteful. If I have, as you claim, used it, then I request you kindly link to the post in question.

As for one liners, they have their uses:

a.) When there's nothing else to put;
b.) Its all thats needed.

As I'm sure you've noticed, I generally don't use one-line posts like "I shoot. You die." On the off chance I do use a one-liner, its more like "The digital entity patiently waited for the organics response." That, in fact, is almost a direct quote of an IC one-liner I made where nothing else could be posted.

Hell no, I'll use Toopoxican Organisation brand equipment, and despite the similarities between our tech there has to be major differences, for example my ships are controlled not by Humans or an AI but both, a Human personality within the shell of technology, always learning and better able to understand events, my ships also have an ability to rebuild or change shape thanks to a system of nano-technology, second I don't have a nation persay, the way I'm RPing it is by having single ships released across the galaxy but in quite numerous amounts, third, invasions are made by downloading a human personality into a specifically created vessel made for the job of destroying the particular race I'm targetting, fourth, I operate on the "wounded seal" tactic, by relaying a message of "need assistance" any nation which reads the message will be opening a channel to the ship in which a seperate human personality can be downloaded to the other ships AI and of course take over operations meaning I can clear out an enemy ship quickly and take it over ready to form a larger fleet who will eventually converge.

I know this all sounds quite wanky but I'm planning on RPing it so it's just right.

Well, then you just have to hope that you don't meat an AI that could defeat your 'invasion' force.

. When encountering other species, why do people have enormous fleets? Whilst carrying out searches, why do people have entire fleets?

I have seen many skirmishes, descend into all-out war, the most notable started off as a planets first space launch.

I tend to find that such things don't make for interesting reading. The characters and plot matter - winning doesn't. Of course, the majority of FT was, and is formed from something that would advertise itself like this:

Dried space empires - just add illiteracy!

I mean, I have an enormous fleet. A ridiculous one. One that dwarfs my civilian population, mainly because my civilians are busy not existing. I see a large fleet, in the case of someone who's purpose is to exterminate all life in the universe, a reasonable thing to have. And, even then, there's all sorts of logistical limits that apply due to different factors. But a space-faring human nation?!

That's something that also gets to me. Space is big. People RP it as if it were feasible to intercept enemy craft with ease, detect people faster-than-light with 'radar', or 'sensors', without the added benefit of explanation, and treat it as if it were World War II, With Spaceships And Bigger Guns, instead of the vastness that is space.

First off, some well written NSers can still be n00bs.

Of course they can. But the chances of them being so is vastly lower. I personally don't know a great writer on NS who's also a n00b, but the possibility is there.


Oh, and Toopoxia. You also have to consider the differences in encryption systems, and the fact that most people don't open up their databanks when they're talking to you.

I see a large fleet, in the case of someone who's purpose is to exterminate all life in the universe, a reasonable thing to have.


That would be me :D

That would be me :D
Uhh, TBH, I think HT's current uber AI fleet of doom has you beat on that.

That would be me :D

Yeaaaahhh... but I have the feeling you're not going to commit suicide en masse once you're done, just to thoroughly finish the job.

Fluff is wasteful. If I have, as you claim, used it, then I request you kindly link to the post in question.

As for one liners, they have their uses:

a.) When there's nothing else to put;
b.) Its all thats needed.

As I'm sure you've noticed, I generally don't use one-line posts like "I shoot. You die." On the off chance I do use a one-liner, its more like "The digital entity patiently waited for the organics response." That, in fact, is almost a direct quote of an IC one-liner I made where nothing else could be posted.

Jenrak intro thread, loads of fluff that you systematically ripped from god knows how many series of Star Trek so far as to quote the content of entire episodes as being attributed to you :)

Speaking of which, get that and the BT war moving again. I was having fun...

Yeaaaahhh... but I have the feeling you're not going to commit suicide en masse once you're done, just to thoroughly finish the job.


Nah, I was going to eventually have it to where I was beaten so bad, that I have to retreat back into the eye of terror. I was hoping that would happen when I attacked Zaft, but so far only Tarsonis is fighting me there.

@SeaQuest: I thought he was referring to an RP we're doing together, where I have an uber fleet of doom.

Fluff is wasteful. If I have, as you claim, used it, then I request you kindly link to the post in question.

As for one liners, they have their uses:

a.) When there's nothing else to put;
b.) Its all thats needed.

As I'm sure you've noticed, I generally don't use one-line posts like "I shoot. You die." On the off chance I do use a one-liner, its more like "The digital entity patiently waited for the organics response." That, in fact, is almost a direct quote of an IC one-liner I made where nothing else could be posted.

Define "fluff".

There is no such thing as "fluff", SeaQuest. There is always something more to put than a one-liner. Describe the surroundings, the character's feelings, the heat/cold/temperature, etc. Take a sarcastic view of the whole thread and write a few sarcastic sentances on your characters. It doesn't have to be a monster, but it can be two, three paragraphs. One-liners ruin the page, look terrible, and wreck RP's. It's as simple as that.

There is no such thing as "fluff", SeaQuest. There is always something more to put than a one-liner. Describe the surroundings, the character's feelings, the heat/cold/temperature, etc. Take a sarcastic view of the whole thread and write a few sarcastic sentances on your characters. It doesn't have to be a monster, but it can be two, three paragraphs. One-liners ruin the page, look terrible, and wreck RP's. It's as simple as that.

Here is an example of one time I couldn't see anything else to put except a single sentence.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11493521&postcount=89

Define "fluff".
"Fluff" is wasteless miscilaneous(sp?) info that serves no purpose in furthering the RPs story line.

Jenrak intro thread, loads of fluff that you systematically ripped from god knows how many series of Star Trek so far as to quote the content of entire episodes as being attributed to you :)

Speaking of which, get that and the BT war moving again. I was having fun...
My ST MU based puppet is named Javron, not Jenrak. IIRC, Jenrak is one of the other 'J' nations around here.

Like I said in the thread, RL and my three core nations (SQ, SSQ, and SQDSV) are taking up most of my time. Thus, I doubt if I'll have much to RP using SQ2032, Jarvon, Macronesian Alliance, or Velantia.

As for the Belle Terre ground combat thing, I made the last IC post there. It was you and TFU that left. IC'ly, I was planning on saying it had been going on for years at the standard 1 RL day = 1 NS year ratio.

Nah, I was going to eventually have it to where I was beaten so bad, that I have to retreat back into the eye of terror. I was hoping that would happen when I attacked Zaft, but so far only Tarsonis is fighting me there.

@SeaQuest: I thought he was referring to an RP we're doing together, where I have an uber fleet of doom.
Ahh. Mind if I have the link?

"Fluff" is wasteless miscilaneous(sp?) info that serves no purpose in furthering the RPs story line.

And who decides what is wasteful, and what isn't?

And who decides what is wasteful, and what isn't?
If it furthers the story of the RP, then its useful and not 'fluff'. However, if its just filler that hampens the progress of the story, then it is 'fluff'.

If it furthers the story of the RP, then its useful and not 'fluff'. However, if its just filler that hampens the progress of the story, then it is 'fluff'.

You seem to be missing the point. Who determines what furthers the story? And who decides the difference between detail and filler?

Story line is not everything, SeaQuest. Just read the stickies. Read the parts about "character development". Then recall what you just said.

@ [NOT] TCT, I'm not sure what the thread's about, but from that one post (8472 vessels? What?) it didn't seem like that interesting a thread anyway. And, plus, was there anyone else waiting? Intelligent conversation? What they thought? History behind waiting for someone? There's so much you could have put.

EDIT: Sorry, TCT, thought you had posted that example. Not SQ. Ignore the @TCT.

You seem to be missing the point. Who determines what furthers the story? And who decides the difference between detail and filler?
The one whose story it is.

Though, I admit, at times, sometimes filler is useful. Like when an RP has hit a low point and can't go anywhere with the main plot as the 'narrator' is AFK at the moment.

Story line is not everything, SeaQuest. Just read the stickies. Read the parts about "character development". Then recall what you just said.

I never said it was. Though, lately, I've not seen any threads with or about character development. Lately, its all about wars and closed threads.

TBH, very little FT threads anymore.

@ [NOT] TCT, I'm not sure what the thread's about, but from that one post (8472 vessels? What?) it didn't seem like that interesting a thread anyway. And, plus, was there anyone else waiting? Intelligent conversation? What they thought? History behind waiting for someone? There's so much you could have put.

I linked straight to the post in question. If you need to, check out the posts before and after it. The RP was winding down. I was one of the last two active RPers in that thread.

That post I linked to not only served as a reminder that the story needed to continue, but also to bump the thread as well as the other reasons a one-liner would be needed that I listed earlier.

Problem is, the following:

Bob shoots George. George dies.

advances the story just as much as:

Kneeling, Bob lined up his shot, recoil kicking his arm back as his deegun vaporised George's torso, sending his limbs flying across the room.

So you would advocate taking out all those interesting bits in the sentence, as it's just useless "fluff?"

No Gupta, he's referring to Species 8472, from Voyager.

To Vernii's initial comment, all I can say is, “Amen!”Right now I think II's biggest problem has been a night total lack of character development in any way whatsoever. All people do is play with their guns, and their ships, and their egos, without ever allowing us, the readers, to get into the heads of the people behind those guns and ships. It's just 'pew pew I got you!' then it's all over, generally after an argument.

Really, I find it odd; people are RPing their nations but they really are not RPing their nations. What I mean is, they want to have culture, technology, and military to compete with other people, but they never really flesh it out or do anything with it. It's just some noise usually forgotten after the fighting starts.I've had my disagreements with ElectronX, but here, too, I'll shout “Amen!” I have tried to play the Vah as close to canon as possible w/re to character, and will continue to do so. After all, I'm as bored as everyone else with “humans from central casting in alien suits.” But then, that's why I chose the Vah in the first place!War for example: do any of you here really think that the parents of those soldiers in your society want them to go off and die, on some foreign planet in some foreign part of the galaxy? People live in your nations, and people don't like to see other people die, or come home broken, back from the front of some senseless conflict. Well, now, that depends.

The Vah, for instance, are violence junkies. For them, Sarte's observatons about being most alive at the edge of death are very much a part – one might even say the very foundation – of their lives. Their intelligence depends on an adrenaline boost that only comes when they are in danger. War is important to them in that without it they are little better than dumb animals, living meaningless lives; peace is poison, and more than once Vah civilization has collapsed because they managed to eliminate all enemies and thus became too safe to maintain sentience.

But they key to this, per ElectronX, is in fact characterization. You need to be able to explain why you are the way you are. All of those 40K Chaos races and undead nations (like Warcraft III's Scourge) have a reason for being who and what they are. Yet that isn't the end of characterization; indeed, it should only be the beginning. Why is Naz'hul who he is? How did he become what he is? What about his minions? What's it like to be undead? There is much raw material here for genuine storytelling.Afterwards it will take years to repair all the damage, replace destroyed ships and lost soldiers, and at the same time fuel whatever peace movements you'll have for years to come. And why not? If your people live in any way like Americans or hell, the Polish, then they don't like the idea of their livelihoods being threatened by war. So you have to ask yourself how it's a good idea to let commanders, as Vernii pointed out, start what could become total war conflicts with other nations when you know damn well the people in your nation won't like it.For the first part, absolutely; for the second, if you're a Chaos race or the Scourge or even my Vah, you'd better be prepared to explain what it is you do to permit endless war. In all likelihood, you hold forces back to sustain the effort, and that should be factored in to what you do. For my people, just to furnish an example, their belligerence applies to each other – in fact, they're conditioned to fight each other, just to maintain their civilization. So every Gnich*ah schemes against the others; none will ever commit everything it has to any conflict short of a life-and-death fight for fear of its peers knifing it in the back. If your people are devoted to war and conquest, how do they manage to keep it up forever? And – if they can't – how do they deal with peace?I was wondering about the matter of using NS population figures for FT nations. It seems to me that there's no need to have a star empire if you don't have more people than your one planet can hold. Seeing as we have near 7 billion on Earth, and are still happily chugging along, it would stand to reason that no current NS Nation (or world depending on how you want to look at it...) would have gone over the brink and needed to colonize other planets. Are we expected to believe that populations will not have grown exponentially over the 1000 or so years between our MT Nations, and our FT Empires?

On this note, for my GII Nation, I've used a factor of 100 to increase my population... It seems appropriate. Size will still be relative, which is good, but it will also be believable.

Opinions?Was it Heinlein who wrote The Door Into Summer, in which humans could teleport from planet to planet? In that story, someone made the observation that you could line all of China up and march them through the teleporter, and the exodus would never end – because new births would fill up the line as fast as you emptied it.

Truth is, it is likely (using Earth as an example) that you will never achieve enough migration to empty your homeworld or even reduce its population to the point where it's anything like that of your colonies. There just isn't that great a transport capacity to build the colonies up that fast.

In 2300AD from whence I drew the Vah, 90% of their population lives in their home system, and 70% or so live on the homeworld. That means that 2.5 billion live on Ka'vah!'ah (“Cruel Mother”) and only 1 billion or so live offworld (the Vah mass 2-3 times what humans mass; thus greater biomass translates into lower population).

So mulitplying population by 100 may well be excessive – and then again may not. two or three fold might be enough for a “near future” world where you've only expanded out 5-10 parsecs. On the other hand, 1,000,000 fold might not be enough for a true “galactic empire”.

But why do you want to play a “galactic empire” anyway? Do any of you have any idea how vast a galaxy is?!?For starters there are not that many science fiction plots that have an Earth exodus as its plot device for colonization with colonies that generally exceed the population of the mother planet. Look at Babylon 5's Earth Alliance, Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy, Ben Bova's science fiction, or Clarke's Imperial Earth. In all cases Earth is still the planet with the largest population. Her colonies have large populations of their own, but generally they are only a fraction of what the Earth's is.Hard sci-fi yes; in 2300AD, only the United Kingdom has an offworld population that exceeds its Earthbound one; even France (the dominant power in 2300AD) hasn't reached that point yet, although they soon will (but the in the background history of 2300AD, the United Kingdom got nuked badly in WWIII, while France more or less sat it out).

On the other hand...Indeed the most common way you will see a SF story with worlds greater than Earth's population is either some great cataclysm has occurred and either totally destroyed or severely "wounded" Earth or humans are some sort of vast interstellar civilization that covers either part or the entire galaxy. Examples of this include Star Trek's Federation, the Honor Harrington novels (although Earth's population here is still quite substantial), and Asimov's Foundation story arc.Right, but consider what this means: Frank Herbert's Dune and Isaac Asimov's Foundation Trilogy feature civilizations that have far outgrown humanity's homeworld (in Asimov's classic, nobody even remembers where humanity came from; majority opinion says Rigel, but a few iconoclasts point to the highly radioactive worlds of Sol (this from The Currents of Space (1952), a prequel to the Foundation Trilogy).

So if you want your “galactic empire”, recognize how far in the future such a civilization needs to be. Even in the alternate world of Orion's Arm (set 10,000 years from now), Earth hasn't yet been forgotten and maybe only 5% of the galaxy has actually been explored.

Which raises another issue: when you've developed 100,000 years past where we are now, will your technology be anything even remotely understandable to us poor Neanderthals living here in 2007 A.D.?That's something that also gets to me. Space is big. People RP it as if it were feasible to intercept enemy craft with ease, detect people faster-than-light with 'radar', or 'sensors', without the added benefit of explanation, and treat it as if it were World War II, With Spaceships And Bigger Guns, instead of the vastness that is space. Very good point, especially in light of the war that's developing in Universe II between HT and my Vah. Battles are only going to occur near star systems just because they are the only place where detection of enemy vessels is likely.

This brings me to one of my biggest beefs (well, aside from the vast size of fleets; when you have 10,000 ships on a side, tactics more or less go out the window); we don't fight in three dimensions. Space is three dimensional, so why aren't our battles?

The one whose story it is.

Though, I admit, at times, sometimes filler is useful. Like when an RP has hit a low point and can't go anywhere with the main plot as the 'narrator' is AFK at the moment.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that an RP belongs to an individual. The story is not yours, even if you ar the original poster. As soon as someone else joins, it has stopped being your story. At that point it becomes a joint effort.

That seems like a rather childish and limited perspective. The RP does not belong to any individual player. It is a mutual exercise.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that an RP belongs to an individual. The story is not yours, even if you ar the original poster. As soon as someone else joins, it has stopped being your story. At that point it becomes a joint effort.

That seems like a rather childish and limited perspective. The RP does not belong to any individual player. It is a mutual exercise.

I second that! My MT nation started an RP awhile ago, and by the time it was finished, it wasn't even remotely what I had originally planned.

I second that! My MT nation started an RP awhile ago, and by the time it was finished, it wasn't even remotely what I had originally planned.

Thank you.

O.K, here's an anti-n00b idea:

Let's say that a battle is unfolding between A and B. A has 25 warships, B has 21. C shows up with 5,000 ships.

Take the natural log of the battling fleets, and then together and divide by two. Convert that log back into the closest whole number, and set that to be the “size” of the engagement.ln(25) = 3.21887
ln(21) = 3.04452
ln(25) + ln(21) = 6.26340
(ln(25) + ln(21)) / 2 = 3.13170
e^3.13170 = 22.91 ~ 23So a reasonable number of ships to bring into this engagement would be 23.

Now we find the natural log of the interloper's fleet.ln (5,000) = 8.51759To punish the vile numberwanking n00b, divide his natural log by twice the one we calculated to determine what a “proper” incursion would be.ln(5,000) / (ln(25) + ln(21)) = 1.35984Now convert that back to the closest whole number:e^1.35984 = 3.85999 ~ 4To punish the n00b, the other two players now treat the interloper as though he had 4 ships; effectively, they divide whatever he does by 1,250 (or more).C: ZOMG!!!!! I FIRE 20,000 FOTON TURPEDOS AT JU!!!!! :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :sniper:
A (reckoning this to be the equivalent of 16 missiles): One torpedo explodes near my flagship, doing serious damage; three more go off near one or more of my other ships, doing minor damage to two and trivial damage to two more. The rest miss or do no real damage.
C: UR GODMODING!!!!! U SHUD B PWNED!!!! :mp5: :sniper:
A: This is the IC thread. The OOC thread is here (A has just created this). No further OOC posts will be allowed here; if you make them, I'll have a mod delete them. Understood?
C: NO!!!! UR GODMODDING!!!! :mad: :upyours: :gundge: :gundge:
MOD: <delete>Likewise, as the n00b refuses to accept damage, just multiply whatever damage he admits (or what you think he should have taken) by 1,250 (or more) and reckon then his forces to be weaker by whatever amount of damage he should take. At the point where his “effective” strength has been reduced to zero, all of his weapons miss or do insignificant damage.

Thoughts?

(BTW, you can use the calculators that come with most operating systems to make these calculations.)

You seem to be under the misapprehension that an RP belongs to an individual. The story is not yours, even if you ar the original poster. As soon as someone else joins, it has stopped being your story. At that point it becomes a joint effort.

That seems like a rather childish and limited perspective. The RP does not belong to any individual player. It is a mutual exercise.

I'll concede you that point, TCT.

Though, you do have to admit that there are RPers out there who have a planned primary plot-line they want their story to follow, especially if it enhances their nation's backstory. RPs like those follow a core story line, miscilaneous(sp?) add-on story lines are additional semi-fluff to fit the other RPers into the RP.

O.K, here's an anti-n00b idea:

Let's say that a battle is unfolding between A and B. A has 25 warships, B has 21. C shows up with 5,000 ships.

Take the natural log of the battling fleets, and then together and divide by two. Convert that log back into the closest whole number, and set that to be the “size” of the engagement.So a reasonable number of ships to bring into this engagement would be 23.

Now we find the natural log of the interloper's fleet.To punish the vile numberwanking n00b, divide his natural log by twice the one we calculated to determine what a “proper” incursion would be.Now convert that back to the closest whole number:To punish the n00b, the other two players now treat the interloper as though he had 4 ships; effectively, they divide whatever he does by 1,250 (or more).Likewise, as the n00b refuses to accept damage, just multiply whatever damage he admits (or what you think he should have taken) by 1,250 (or more) and reckon then his forces to be weaker by whatever amount of damage he should take. At the point where his “effective” strength has been reduced to zero, all of his weapons miss or do insignificant damage.

Thoughts?

(BTW, you can use the calculators that come with most operating systems to make these calculations.)

Good plan, if one has time to work out all the math that it calls for.

TCB, That'd be quite funny, actually. To the rest of your points, I'm going to take a line from what you said. "I can only say, "Amen!"".

It took me just 5 minutes; usually the post cycle rate is far greater than that.

As for set story lines, those should be worked out by IM or TG in advance, so that all understand what the thread is about.

Here's an example: A Bloody Beginning.. (UII RP, closed) (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=492568). HT and I have already worked out the course of this thread (he gets a bloody nose but captures my science station, so that he can study my species).

Wow, this thread really took off. I'll post again later probably with my own opinions and comments on the discussion so far.

It took me just 5 minutes; usually the post cycle rate is far greater than that.

As for set story lines, those should be worked out by IM or TG in advance, so that all understand what the thread is about.

Here's an example: A Bloody Beginning.. (UII RP, closed) (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=492568). HT and I have already worked out the course of this thread (he gets a bloody nose but captures my science station, so that he can study my species).
I would like to point out that not everyone is willing to dedicate that much time to most single posts.

Right, but consider what this means: Frank Herbert's Dune and Isaac Asimov's Foundation Trilogy feature civilizations that have far outgrown humanity's homeworld (in Asimov's classic, nobody even remembers where humanity came from; majority opinion says Rigel, but a few iconoclasts point to the highly radioactive worlds of Sol (this from The Currents of Space (1952), a prequel to the Foundation Trilogy).

So if you want your “galactic empire”, recognize how far in the future such a civilization needs to be. Even in the alternate world of Orion's Arm (set 10,000 years from now), Earth hasn't yet been forgotten and maybe only 5% of the galaxy has actually been explored.

Which raises another issue: when you've developed 100,000 years past where we are now, will your technology be anything even remotely understandable to us poor Neanderthals living here in 2007 A.D.?


Once again, in both Asimov's and Herbert's universes Earth as it is commonly thought of had been destroyed and this is largely while it was lost. In the case of Asimov it is quite clear there was some sort of realization of a nuclear war that lead to the depopulation of the planet excluding a few barely habitable clean areas. Herbert's take on what became of Earth was done, to what degree to could be done, by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson (crosses himself to protect from the unclean that is KJA). The free human were "forced" to carpet nuke Earth from orbit and thus rendered the Earth uninhabitable. True by the time we see both the universes of Asimov and Herbert the worlds are most likely "clean" now due to the radiation having spent itself out over the hundreds or thousands of years. But the original reason they were "lost" was because they were essentially destroyed as major population centers or locations of any considerable value.

Also in regards to the debate about "fluff", the first excuse of someone who cannot be bothered to create any sort of backstory, plot, or history for his own nation is to jump up and down and shout as loud as possible that "IT IS ALL FLUFF!" and "IT RUINS AN RP!" To this I say: wrong. Unless what you are shooting for is some nation that does just run about the galaxy shooting the uber-death lasers of uber-death-deathiness at whatever poor unfortunate happens to have stumbled in front of you. Having a nation that is more than just a warfleet or a despotic overlord that wants to kill all enemies (being probably anything else that is sentient) requires something more. You need to be able to know what motivates your nation, why it behaves as such, and what history it has experienced in order to create what you see before this. If you can share this in a meaningful and timely format (IE-more than just random data dumping) you will find yourself playing with people who are more capable of RPing with you because they can see from where your nation is coming from. And if they can be persuaded to do the same you will also enjoy the RP more because you will be able to see and appreciate something besides the same old base instincts of nations that are spray-painted on every surface in II like really bad "street art" drawn by twelve-year old wannabe gang initiates.

As for one-line post there is only one thing that can be said: you don't need them. If you cannot think of anything more than one-line to fill a post in a thread (except under very specific circumstances like maybe a played out, but probably unnecessary, dialogue) you most likely do not need to make a post at all. Wait until there is something of substance to post, or use that same post to explore some other scene from your own nation that has some relevance to the plot at hand. That way you can explore other aspects and details of your nation that otherwise might not be seen. The one-line post, more so than anything else, is the ultimate down fall of II, especially when over half of the one-line posts consist of more meaningless numbers than actually alphabetic characters.

Thank you, Valinon. You said exactly what I've been trying to say in two paragraphs. Bravo. I'm too tired right now to add anything to the discussion, but, yeah, I agree with Valinon whole-heartedly.

My ST MU based puppet is named Javron, not Jenrak. IIRC, Jenrak is one of the other 'J' nations around here.

Like I said in the thread, RL and my three core nations (SQ, SSQ, and SQDSV) are taking up most of my time. Thus, I doubt if I'll have much to RP using SQ2032, Jarvon, Macronesian Alliance, or Velantia.

As for the Belle Terre ground combat thing, I made the last IC post there. It was you and TFU that left. IC'ly, I was planning on saying it had been going on for years at the standard 1 RL day = 1 NS year ratio.

I've posted. You now need to post; I assume we are continuing it, I won't simply allow such a promising thread (On me and TFU's part) to die.

I've posted. You now need to post; I assume we are continuing it, I won't simply allow such a promising thread (On me and TFU's part) to die.
Yeah right, you and TFU were the ones letting it die. I recall being the one who reminded you in TGs and over MSN that we needed to continue it.

My tech has changed alot since you and TFU abandoned that thread.

Now, its IC'ly been going on for years at the standard ratio of 1 RL day = 1 NS year. That's what's in my national history now.

Ahem, and who was the one who posted last? You didn't even remind me via TG, I had to post again just to spur you into action. honestly, you ought to reply, since its been lying for god knows how long. Wars and such are self-contained and thus don't abide by the whole year-day thing. It hardly takes me a year to move a little bit and then sit waiting for you to post *eye-roll*. You really have to stop being so anal-retentive to detail when it comes to the little things, boyo.

Honestly, the 1 RL day = 1 NS year is one of the stupidest things that's ever been conceived on these forums, *especially* when it gets applied to battles, because then you'd have battles lasting IC centuries. Fluid time should really be the standard, because each person can apply it as needed. Hell, I've been in a war for the past RL year, and it'll probably last another few months as well. IC it's been less than a month, but if you apply the 1 RL day = NS year to it, then that means it's been going on for almost four centuries.

First off, congratulations for making this thread, a discussion for the betterment of FT on II has been a long time coming.

All points so far seem to be covered, so I'll just add a little on how I manage my time.

One 'inactive' RL day = 1 NS year. In other words, if I'm not involved with a real time RP, each hour knocks off half a month.

One 'active' RL day = (A few minutes to whatever, depending on the RP pace). When I'm in an RP, the 1 day = 1 year rule goes, and time goes as fast as the RP permits. Looking at average postage rates, it can be from ten minutes in a hectic battle to a day or so on a less war-like (Probably diplomatic or first contact gone right) RP.

This is how I do time on NS. If my Nation isn't involved in anything Real Time, 1 Day here is a year for my nation. If it is, then I conform to whatever time passes inside the RP.

Marc_C_C@hotmail.com

Now you can add me as you please, sunshine.

The only problem I've ever faced was with a tech I've never heard of, really. Most FT RPs I've seen are actually pretty decent. It's the MT ones I'm more worried about.

The only problem I've ever faced was with a tech I've never heard of, really. Most FT RPs I've seen are actually pretty decent. It's the MT ones I'm more worried about.

Typical Drow, scared of unknowable surface modernity :P

Ahem, and who was the one who posted last? You didn't even remind me via TG, I had to post again just to spur you into action. honestly, you ought to reply, since its been lying for god knows how long. Wars and such are self-contained and thus don't abide by the whole year-day thing. It hardly takes me a year to move a little bit and then sit waiting for you to post *eye-roll*. You really have to stop being so anal-retentive to detail when it comes to the little things, boyo.
As I recall, I had made the last IC post. Then an OOC comment by someone (I don't recall who) and a tag by Nagg was made.

Honestly, the 1 RL day = 1 NS year is one of the stupidest things that's ever been conceived on these forums, *especially* when it gets applied to battles, because then you'd have battles lasting IC centuries. Fluid time should really be the standard, because each person can apply it as needed. Hell, I've been in a war for the past RL year, and it'll probably last another few months as well. IC it's been less than a month, but if you apply the 1 RL day = NS year to it, then that means it's been going on for almost four centuries.
So?

Now, IIRC, the 1 RL day = 1 NS year ratio was originally for budget 'restoration' and build times.

As I recall, I had made the last IC post. Then an OOC comment by someone (I don't recall who) and a tag by Nagg was made.

Then evidently you haven't recently checked. Bad form, sunshine.

And yes, for budget and building and things other than battles, diplomacy and current events :)

First off, congratulations for making this thread, a discussion for the betterment of FT on II has been a long time coming.

All points so far seem to be covered, so I'll just add a little on how I manage my time.

One 'inactive' RL day = 1 NS year. In other words, if I'm not involved with a real time RP, each hour knocks off half a month.

One 'active' RL day = (A few minutes to whatever, depending on the RP pace). When I'm in an RP, the 1 day = 1 year rule goes, and time goes as fast as the RP permits. Looking at average postage rates, it can be from ten minutes in a hectic battle to a day or so on a less war-like (Probably diplomatic or first contact gone right) RP.

This is how I do time on NS. If my Nation isn't involved in anything Real Time, 1 Day here is a year for my nation. If it is, then I conform to whatever time passes inside the RP.

I'll admit, you are correct with those points.

Then evidently you haven't recently checked. Bad form, sunshine.
I stopped checking after weeks of inactivity, dude. And don't call me 'sunshine'.

So?

Now, IIRC, the 1 RL day = 1 NS year ratio was originally for budget 'restoration' and build times.


So? What do you mean so? The point is applying it to everything is retarded, there's not much more too it than that. Hell, I don't even use it at all, because its a retarded concept to begin with. Its not like anyone actually counts down the time to a new RL day so they can go more buy more crap on the storefronts is it? Considering build times and such are all arbitrarily set to begin with, applying said arbitrary times to some sort of RL standard is rather idiotic, wouldn't you think?

I'll call you what I wish, little man. And maybe you should actually check since theres a post, waiting for you, reeking of urge to find out if your people actually have guts for me to gut, sunshine.

So? What do you mean so? The point is applying it to everything is retarded, there's not much more too it than that. Hell, I don't even use it at all, because its a retarded concept to begin with. Its not like anyone actually counts down the time to a new RL day so they can go more buy more crap on the storefronts is it? Considering build times and such are all arbitrarily set to begin with, applying said arbitrary times to some sort of RL standard is rather idiotic, wouldn't you think?
Meh. Then you use instant time tables? Having a base ratio to go off of enhances the RP. Would you rather when people like, say US, for example, builds something like a Galaxy Gun, for example, and have it fully complete after a few moments, or have no documented building to begin with?

I'll call you what I wish, little man. And maybe you should actually check since theres a post, waiting for you, reeking of urge to find out if your people actually have guts for me to gut, sunshine.
First off, I don't swing that way, Chrono, so you can drop the 'sunshine' crap.

Secondly, you got the link? I didn't save it as you and TFU left me hanging for weeks.

Thirdly, that RP is ancient SQian history. IC time has already past and the troops there have been fighting, dieing, and living their lives for decades, if not centuries. That's what I've gone with since you and TFU let the RP get to the point where you had to gravedig it.

Meh. Then you use instant time tables? Having a base ratio to go off of enhances the RP. Would you rather when people like, say US, for example, builds something like a Galaxy Gun, for example, and have it fully complete after a few moments, or have no documented building to begin with?

Except both US and CW took appropriate amounts of time to make sure it was built and sustained.

No, I don't use any set base, I simply have things done after what seems like a realistic amount of time, not some sort of base standard. Shit happens when it needs to happen, essentially.

First off, I don't swing that way, Chrono, so you can drop the 'sunshine' crap.

Secondly, you got the link? I didn't save it as you and TFU left me hanging for weeks.

Thirdly, that RP is ancient SQian history. IC time has already past and the troops there have been fighting, dieing, and living their lives for decades, if not centuries. That's what I've gone with since you and TFU let the RP get to the point where you had to gravedig it.

Firstly, don't flatter yourself, bitches like you, aren't on my menu :P

Secondly, I always have links, since certain people never reply, and I have a severe case of writers block, so you can excuse me for taking my time over your ass.

And thirdly, you better have a nice juicy defeat and eviction from the Cluster chalked up in your history book so your school children can learn the dire dire history of Seaquestrian man :D

Fourthly, if you were so pissed, why not add more need to the issue, why not pressure us more? (Which you didn't). Also, whats up with the lack of posting in the Jarvon intro thread when once again, SURPRISE, its your turn, my little friend.

No, I don't use any set base, I simply have things done after what seems like a realistic amount of time, not some sort of base standard. Shit happens when it needs to happen, essentially.
So, as I understand what you are saying, I could use Fluid Time to have SSQ use the Drakh Mothership based ship that has the "Construction Of A Giant" thread as documented build history and just say it already launched and start using it in RPs?

So, as I understand what you are saying, I could use Fluid Time to have SSQ use the Drakh Mothership based ship that has the "Construction Of A Giant" thread as documented build history and just say it already launched and start using it in RPs?

From what I understand, you'd have to wait a reasonable amount of time before you unveiled it, instead of say, pulling it out of your ass and saying "OMG! I have it after no time! Bow to me, ye n00bs! I am teh Awesome!!"

Firstly, don't flatter yourself, bitches like you, aren't on my menu :P

Only because I respect you as an RPer and I know you are actually a nice guy OOC'ly, I'm not sinking to the level some people would in regards to crap like that.

Secondly, I always have links, since certain people never reply, and I have a severe case of writers block, so you can excuse me for taking my time over your ass.

Then stop moaning and post it.

And thirdly, you better have a nice juicy defeat and eviction from the Cluster chalked up in your history book so your school children can learn the dire dire history of Seaquestrian man :D

Don't you start that crap up again. Only the truth is in SQian history books. And that includes the GM and wank you guys pulled to get me out of the Cluster, at least the IC version.

Next time you want to try dogpiling and cluster-f*ing someone, try picking someone who'll let you get away with it.

From what I understand, you'd have to wait a reasonable amount of time before you unveiled it, instead of say, pulling it out of your ass and saying "OMG! I have it after no time! Bow to me, ye n00bs! I am teh Awesome!!"
Then Vernii should explain it like that instead of this damn round-a-bout method he/she is using.

Typical Drow, scared of unknowable surface modernity :P
Hey, we're not oblivious to it. We're just bad shots.

And I don't use the 1 RL day=1 NS year hardly at all, exept once in a while, for things like building my fleet. Even then I've been using more like 1 week=1 year. I, too, believe it's a stupid idea, and only applicable for newbies learning on what to do.

Chron and Sea: Ah, rivalries.

Its nothing to do with me that you got kicked out of the cluster. As I recall it, to your demands it was approved by Balrogga, Tannelorn and Waterhelper. I had little to do with the matter.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=483130

Theres your link :D

Now that thats sorted, I expect replies in all the threads you've let lie. I've been bored of late and need some entertainment. And honestly, despite all the false accusations you've made over the GFFA and the Cluster affair, its really neither my decision, nor yours to kick you from said organisations.

Sorry.

Hey, we're not oblivious to it. We're just bad shots.

And I don't use the 1 RL day=1 NS year hardly at all, exept once in a while, for things like building my fleet. Even then I've been using more like 1 week=1 year. I, too, believe it's a stupid idea, and only applicable for newbies learning on what to do.

Currently, I only use the 1 RL day = 1 NS year ratio for my budget.

Chron and Sea: Ah, rivalries.

Why do you say that? Chron's just a little impatient, apparently, when it comes to certain things.

Hey, we're not oblivious to it. We're just bad shots.

And I don't use the 1 RL day=1 NS year hardly at all, exept once in a while, for things like building my fleet. Even then I've been using more like 1 week=1 year. I, too, believe it's a stupid idea, and only applicable for newbies learning on what to do.

Chron and Sea: Ah, rivalries.

He's not really a rival so much as an aspiring protoge. :P Anyways, I hope your stuff does well in sunlight and doesn't disintegrate. And I hope you bring much Lloth to all of FT! I love Drow XD

Impatient? Perhaps. But I've waited long enough without reciprocation.

Its nothing to do with me that you got kicked out of the cluster. As I recall it, to your demands it was approved by Balrogga, Tannelorn and Waterhelper. I had little to do with the matter.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=483130

Theres your link :D

Now that thats sorted, I expect replies in all the threads you've let lie. I've been bored of late and need some entertainment. And honestly, despite all the false accusations you've made over the GFFA and the Cluster affair, its really neither my decision, nor yours to kick you from said organisations.

Sorry.

Still, it was GM and wank because it was for made up reasons! How long is that simple fact going to take to sink in?

And thanks for the link.

Oh, and another thread you've let semi-die is that meeting thread of yours.

He's not really a rival so much as an aspiring protoge. :P Anyways, I hope your stuff does well in sunlight and doesn't disintegrate. And I hope you bring much Lloth to all of FT! I love Drow XD
Actually, I was hoping you'd be the 'Higher Power' in the Burning Trail, with you trying to convert us to the Chaos Lords and a few of teh seperatists would break off and join the Chronosian Imperium. They still have, according to my history, but we haven't gotten to that point in teh RP yet, as it hasn't updated for a few weeks.

*Realizes we've been talking OT too much*
I think Vernii's kinda got a point, though. We tend to get off track.

Still, it was GM and wank because it was for made up reasons! How long is that simple fact going to take to sink in?

And thanks for the link.

Oh, and another thread you've let semi-die is that meeting thread of yours.

Writers block obviously doesn't sink in with you, does it?

Besides, that moon was wank, you chosing where TFU's shot went was wank, and you ignoring Bal's shot was wank. Had you not caused such a kerfuffle over a stupid moon, none of that would have transpired. Terrible shame, and all that, but nothing to do with me, and in the end I accepted it because frankly I can do without such headaches in the cluster.

Actually, I was hoping you'd be the 'Higher Power' in the Burning Trail, with you trying to convert us to the Chaos Lords and a few of teh seperatists would break off and join the Chronosian Imperium. They still have, according to my history, but we haven't gotten to that point in teh RP yet, as it hasn't updated for a few weeks.

*Realizes we've been talking OT too much*
I think Vernii's kinda got a point, though. We tend to get off track.

Heh, converting Drow to Chaos ought not to be so hard. Probably a lot of men, who'd otherwise be Drider's :D

TG me, we'll work out some specifics.

So, as I understand what you are saying, I could use Fluid Time to have SSQ use the Drakh Mothership based ship that has the "Construction Of A Giant" thread as documented build history and just say it already launched and start using it in RPs?

Wouldn't matter to me, it'd probably be the exact same quality as everything else from a nation that's not even 2 billion yet and has a merely "thriving" economy. (Hint: Live target practice, to sum it up.)

Frankly, I don't understand how you can't get the simple concept of "it's done when its done" and simply putting in a respectable amount of time for the construction.

Would it be too much of an annoyance for you two to maybe take this to either TGrams, some form of instant messaging, IRC, or ye olde fashioned email. No offense, but this thread was created to work toward the possible betterment of FT as a whole not discuss who has wronged whom in any one particular thread. And seeing as how everyone else has avoided the open flinging of the insults, or at least flinging of what can be perceived as insults, would it be too much to ask for this to be continued?

I agree, and I'm interested to see if my way of measuring time is good or not :S

Wouldn't matter to me, it'd probably be the exact same quality as everything else from a nation that's not even 2 billion yet and has a merely "thriving" economy. (Hint: Live target practice, to sum it up.)

Frankly, I don't understand how you can't get the simple concept of "it's done when its done" and simply putting in a respectable amount of time for the construction.

Bravo. Bravo :D

And of course, I understand we've gotten a tad off course, but Seaquest seems to have a short memory, and I, being dedicated to the furtherment of Ft, the eradication of the noob plague and the restoration of the Golden Age that II rightly deserves, am only too happy to remind him of RPs that further said goals.

What II needs is more epic Rps, on the scale and scope of the Shivans wars, more arcs and whorls, rather than the simple and petty advancement of egotism.

Writers block obviously doesn't sink in with you, does it?

Besides, that moon was wank, you chosing where TFU's shot went was wank, and you ignoring Bal's shot was wank. Had you not caused such a kerfuffle over a stupid moon, none of that would have transpired. Terrible shame, and all that, but nothing to do with me, and in the end I accepted it because frankly I can do without such headaches in the cluster.

I never said anything about your 'supposed' writer's block, Chrono.

And no, the Quake Moon was canon, not wank.

TFU's shot was fired at a moon.
1.) At that range and position, no way to target the Quake Moon.
2.) It was my job to call my damage, not yours, TFU's, Bal's, or anyone elses.

As for Bal's shot, bah! That came after the entire thread de-evolved into a dog-pile cluster-f*ck. As I recall, both TFU, the thread starter, and I agreed that it would be retconned.

I also seem to recall US offering a compromise both you and TFU agreed to (of course, US let that thread die).

Bal, as a member of the Cluster Police, was supposed to uphold the peace and protect members of the Cluster. Instead, he attacks my Ambassador and shoots at me, a Cluster member he was supposed to be protecting from you and TFU, the illegal invaders.

I was not the one who caused the crap over the moon. I was RPing as normal. It was Bal, as I recall, who started that whole made-up crap reason that supposedly is why I was kicked from the Cluster (which was, and still is, pure GM).

I never said anything about your 'supposed' writer's block, Chrono.

And no, the Quake Moon was canon, not wank.

TFU's shot was 'fired at a moon.
1.) At that range and position, no way to target the Quake Moon.
2.) It was my job to call my damage, not yours, TFU's, Bal's, or anyone elses.

As for Bal's shot, bah! That came after the entire thread de-evolved into a dog-pile cluster-f*ck. As I recall, both TFU, the thread starter, and I agreed that it would be retconned.

I also seem to recall US offering a compromise both you and TFU agreed to (of course, US let that thread die).

Bal, as a member of the Cluster Police, was supposed to uphold the peace and protect members of the Cluster. Instead, he attacks my Ambassador and shoots at me, a Cluster member he was supposed to be protecting from you and TFU, the illegal invaders.

I was not the one who caused the crap over the moon. I was RPing as normal. It was Bal, as I recall, who started that whole made-up crap reason that supposedly is why I was kicked from the Cluster (which was, and still is, pure GM).

Regardless, and since we have been asked to cease I shall cease here, it was the decision of a majority to let you go, reasons valid or no. Bal acted to protect the cluster as a whole, and thats all in the past, you booted from the Cluster by approved action of none other than Waterhelper.

I lack in utter compulsion to make any kind of epic post on the scale that I have propogated throughout Belle Terre, simply because I am devoid of any inspiration, even to the point that my competition with my friend over who can churn out a novel (Rather an important ideal to me) has stalled, so please don't imply that I'm a liar.

My personal bone with the 1 Day=1 Year timeline, besides its complete stupidity, is that there is no point in it other than for the needs to wank up more stats. What could you possibly need to have built or done in that kind of time scheme besides something to wank up preparedness for either a war or rebuilding from what should be the devestation of a previous war? I can barely think of anything, and certainly nothing that gives this long-held fallacy justification or merit.

Personally, I find the way to move construction, development, et cetera, along is to have some kind of thread that deals with this sort of events that are spaced out and involve either other plots/stories possibly combined with the works of other nations. These other nations would be, ideally, those that you already have closely RPed contacts with (whether they be cordial or hostile relations). This could allow for some of the other interesting parts that come before, after, and during wars like espionage, sabotage, et cetera. If nothing else it allows you time to develop your nation and its capabilities in more depth. Also, it is hard for someone to decry "OMFG THATZ TEH WANK WANG!" if you have a legitimate RP of some duration backing up its development and construction. If there is such a thread they could have tried to observe or even sabotage it before it came into play. If they are too lazy to do this then it is there own damn fault.

Before someone even starts on it, I would like to note that I am not writing a carte blanche for the endless one-line post development threads that say "I am working on such and such" and then three hours later "MY GREATEST WEAPON IS COMPLETED!" No, no, no! That does not work. RPing construction and development should take at least as long or possible longer than wars, especially if you are doing it during peace time and you are even a semi-democratic nation. You have to justify the swelling of certain areas of the military budget after all, even extremely patriotic societies will have limits to how much they are going to be willing to see pumped into the military. The more that is put in there, the more they are losing somewhere else, or just watching deficit spending spiral out of control.

He's not really a rival so much as an aspiring protoge. :P Anyways, I hope your stuff does well in sunlight and doesn't disintegrate. And I hope you bring much Lloth to all of FT! I love Drow XD

Impatient? Perhaps. But I've waited long enough without reciprocation.
We've gotten kinda used to the sun, so we won't be floating in space because we got too close to a sun.

Oh, and done. Check TGs.

And as for another epic RP, we'll see how our future interactions go and I might cook something up.

Oh, and for reference on Bal's going nutters, the people he assigned to patrol the cluster were infected by Chaos, which is why he almost attacked me./Hint

Oh, and for reference on Bal's going nutters, the people he assigned to patrol the cluster were infected by Chaos, which is why he almost attacked me./Hint
Still, one would expect a race as powerful as the Ta'nar are supposedly to be able to resist the taint.

@Valinon: Good points there. I'll give you that. TBH, I happen to agree with the idea that documentable proof is a good thing to have.

Still, one would expect a race as powerful as the Ta'nar are supposedly to be able to resist the taint.

@Valinon: Good points there. I'll give you that. TBH, I happen to agree with the idea that documentable proof is a good thing to have.

Nothing is 100% resistant to anything. Thats another thing that ruins FT. People assuming they have unstoppable weapons or unbeatable defences. It's a load of bollocks. Besides, Bal's race came from the warp, its not like their resistant to it.

Everyone has weaknesses and strengths, but no one can have all the strengths and none of the weaknesses. Too many uber techs is the problem, too many people unwilling to show a chink in the old armor.

Nothing is 100% resistant to anything. Thats another thing that ruins FT. People assuming they have unstoppable weapons or unbeatable defences. It's a load of bollocks. Besides, Bal's race came from the warp, its not like their resistant to it.

Everyone has weaknesses and strengths, but no one can have all the strengths and none of the weaknesses. Too many uber techs is the problem, too many people unwilling to show a chink in the old armor.
As I was when I was playing as United Cultures. Even I have to admit I was the classic n00b when I started.

Personally, I find the way to move construction, development, et cetera, along is to have some kind of thread that deals with this sort of events that are spaced out and involve either other plots/stories possibly combined with the works of other nations. These other nations would be, ideally, those that you already have closely RPed contacts with (whether they be cordial or hostile relations). This could allow for some of the other interesting parts that come before, after, and during wars like espionage, sabotage, et cetera. If nothing else it allows you time to develop your nation and its capabilities in more depth. Also, it is hard for someone to decry "OMFG THATZ TEH WANK WANG!" if you have a legitimate RP of some duration backing up its development and construction. If there is such a thread they could have tried to observe or even sabotage it before it came into play. If they are too lazy to do this then it is there own damn fault.



Kudos to Valinon for bringing this up. It's hard to accuse someone of wanking if they've legitimately RPed developing and building it.

Also, to build on another point from his post; I believe more FT nations need to start finding a smaller group of decent players to focus their role playing around. A "local area" or "region" if you will. People in the middle east deal a lot with other nations in the Middle East. You know why? They're all in the Middle East. Now, America may be able to hop all over the globe, but that's because they have the time and money, and because few others can.

Find your neighbors, RP with them. You can actually build long-running histories and relationships -- even rivalries. This is one situation in which less is more.

Nothing is 100% resistant to anything. Thats another thing that ruins FT. People assuming they have unstoppable weapons or unbeatable defences. It's a load of bollocks. Besides, Bal's race came from the warp, its not like their resistant to it.

I'm not denying they aren't 100% immune. Though, last I checked, resistant didn't mean immune. Now, as non-Chaos Warp entities to begin with, one would still expect the Ta'nar to have a higher tolerance to influence by Chaos.

Everyone has weaknesses and strengths, but no one can have all the strengths and none of the weaknesses. Too many uber techs is the problem, too many people unwilling to show a chink in the old armor.
That, I happen to agree with.

I would like to point out that not everyone is willing to dedicate that much time to most single posts.

Why not? The whole purpose of roleplaying is to tell a story. Most people tend to dive into every they can wholesale, and I remember doing so in the past. However, as most people have a limited amount of time, for every RP you partake in, unless you're an uberly-good writer who can write a page of beautiful RP in under twenty seconds; or something equally ridiculous, ythe quality of your RP is going to be divided. That's the reason my post count is so low, yet I've been here for nigh on three years. I'd rather tell one story well, then a hundred badly.

Nothing is 100% resistant to anything. Thats another thing that ruins FT. People assuming they have unstoppable weapons or unbeatable defences. It's a load of bollocks. Besides, Bal's race came from the warp, its not like their resistant to it.

Everyone has weaknesses and strengths, but no one can have all the strengths and none of the weaknesses. Too many uber techs is the problem, too many people unwilling to show a chink in the old armor.

That right there seems to be a critical issue that I see in some of the RPs that I've seen over my time here. People create these 'uber tech' ground/space vehicles. Everything should have its pros and cons, the second you create that perfect tank/battleship/spaceship, where's the fun and fairness in an RP. I like to think I'm keeping that in mind while I building my FT nation. I like this thread, it's stated many good things to remember.

Why not? The whole purpose of roleplaying is to tell a story. Most people tend to dive into every they can wholesale, and I remember doing so in the past. However, as most people have a limited amount of time, for every RP you partake in, unless you're an uberly-good writer who can write a page of beautiful RP in under twenty seconds; or something equally ridiculous, ythe quality of your RP is going to be divided. That's the reason my post count is so low, yet I've been here for nigh on three years. I'd rather tell one story well, then a hundred badly.
Amen to that! Of course, having an excess of free time and being a relatively quick writer (I wrote about half a page on a new story in about an hour today at work between customers), my post count is slightly higher than yours in only two years. ;)

That right there seems to be a critical issue that I see in some of the RPs that I've seen over my time here. People create these 'uber tech' ground/space vehicles. Everything should have its pros and cons, the second you create that perfect tank/battleship/spaceship, where's the fun and fairness in an RP. I like to think I'm keeping that in mind while I building my FT nation. I like this thread, it's stated many good things to remember.
One small note: It's not quite neccessary to actually tell people your cons. I, for example, don't, as there's simply too many metagamers out there with magic scanners that instantly come up with the weaknesses of my shields.

One small note: It's not quite neccessary to actually tell people your cons. I, for example, don't, as there's simply too many metagamers out there with magic scanners that instantly come up with the weaknesses of my shields.

Oh yeah, that one I know too, but it's more so that you(in this case myself) realise your equipment has its limitations. It was not my intent to broadcast that Y maneuver will allow X to happen to Z or something to that effect. I simply have no great desire to try and create the uber tech, I just want to be able to have some fun, take part in a decent story, and entertain myself and others at the same time, it really shouldn't be that hard of a thing to accomplish. heh

"Here, here!" (in response to Chron's statements)

Indeed it would seem that most FT nations these days are unwilling to have a story at all, because it would "wound their pride", so to speak, in a fashion that to their nose-up opinions is not tolerable. Very sad, but very true.

I for one Chron, would, if time permits us, like to try orcestrating the said "epic Rp" with you. I could think that CW and Sith would love to be in on it as well. Not to mention a few other choice individuals. It would make for a good mix of experiance, that is for sure. I'll be on msn for a time if you care to go about discussing it.

And, once again, Vernii, my hat is off to you. *bows*

One small note: It's not quite neccessary to actually tell people your cons. I, for example, don't, as there's simply too many metagamers out there with magic scanners that instantly come up with the weaknesses of my shields.
Fully agreed. Its quite enough that we know the strengths and weaknesses of our stuff to the letter so we can RP with them to the best of our abilities.

That is if they can be trusted to accurately and fairly represent their weaknesses, even without announcing them in fifty foot neon brail.

I hate to say things like this, as it seems somewhat presumptuous, but I am in the process of attempting to introduce a new kind of species to the universe at large. The Bretonian battleship HMS Northampton (and possibly their attempted rescuers, permission allowing) is about to have an unpleasant first encounter with them shortly in fact. It was originally intended as coincidental ammunition for the people within certain Bretonian groups who are strongly against the re-opening of Bretonian jump gates (who are, as anybody who has read the Colonial News pages recently (i.e. nobody!) will know, are quite vocal and popular at present), as well as simply something for me to do. But if you were looking for a subject matter for a story arc (if only a small one), and have not had any ideas, you would be more than welcome to use the species in an NPC fashion if you wanted to. Once the species has been established and described, of course.

One thing I've noticed is that no matter where your FT nation originates in the universe, 99% of the time, everyone speaks English. Now, I know this is usually done to keep things flowing smoothly, but its just highly unlikely and unrealistic, IMHO.

That is if they can be trusted to accurately and fairly represent their weaknesses, even without announcing them in fifty foot neon brail.
One good point to using a canon tech by canon nations. Though, canon tech based nations (with non-canon and non-fanon story lines) tend to fix canon weaknesses, but create new ones in the process.

And see here was me enjoying the notion of galactic common. Chronosians speak High or Low Gothic, derived from ancient Terran and thus from earth, validating our language in the annals of that which is to be understood by most of Humanity originating from the cradle.

Everything has weaknesses, no matter how much you improve something, that will never change. You could try and build the most uber ship in the universe and it'd still be riddled with flaws. Especially if its super-big and meant to be super-impressive. The bigger and more advanced something is, the more it can be undermined.

Like the Daedalus with that nifty Wraith virus ^^

One thing I've noticed is that no matter where your FT nation originates in the universe, 99% of the time, everyone speaks English. Now, I know this is usually done to keep things flowing smoothly, but its just highly unlikely and unrealistic, IMHO.

Speak for yourself!

I prefer to think of the dialogue spoken in English to make it easier for the other RPers to read it, not that people only speak English. Since we're mostly native English speakers, we tend to make our characters speak in the language we know most - but I prefer to think of it as representing other languages in the instances in which a race doesn't actually speak English, or is the translated version of the text.

I prefer to think of the dialogue spoken in English to make it easier for the other RPers to read it, not that people only speak English. Since we're mostly native English speakers, we tend to make our characters speak in the language we know most - but I prefer to think of it as representing other languages in the instances in which a race doesn't actually speak English, or is the translated version of the text.

I've been tempted, from time to time in other incarnations, to address others in languiages as varyied as German, French, and Spanish, and, in one memorable instance, I SERIOUSLY busted out the Lation/English dict, and seriously messed with a guys head. An entire paragraph of LATIN. *cackles*

I prefer to think of the dialogue spoken in English to make it easier for the other RPers to read it, not that people only speak English. Since we're mostly native English speakers, we tend to make our characters speak in the language we know most - but I prefer to think of it as representing other languages in the instances in which a race doesn't actually speak English, or is the translated version of the text.
Very true. For example, most Otagians are assumed to be speaking in Japanese, and will have the occasional bit of it thrown in to spice things up. I really need to talk to my friend Chloe, see if I can learn any good curse words (actually, anything besides komenasi, aniki, omae and baka, to be honest. My current vocabulary is quite limited).

Back from the Dead
Or
What is Creative Bankruptcy Alex?


How many times has Palpatine come back from the dead now? And before I forget, can you wake me up when the Shivans attack again?

That's the main problem with FT, creative bankruptcy. Plots that ten year olds could think up and characters that have more in common with a cardboard packing box than human beings. FT is a giant amateur Soap Opera, only without with the hot chicks to make it even semi-worthwhile.

Not even the "diamonds in the rough" are immune. The gems just happen to have better spelling and fancier adjectives. "Herobiy klilled Von-Evliman with his daeth lanec compared to , "With a mighty flash Heroboy activated his Model 410 Acme Death Lance. Its green beam of lethal energy blasting a hole through Von-Evilman's chest sprawling his lifeless body on the floor. Peace would return to the Empire at last."

Either way we saw Heroboy's victory coming from his first line and we still know Von-Evilman really isn't dead and he'll be back to annoy Heroboy with a new dastardly plot next week.

And then six-months later we won't be surprised when the whole thing is repeated. Only this time it's between Heroboy Jr., the son of Heroboy and Amazing-Girl and Von-Evillass, the adobted daughter of Von-Evilman. And we somehow know they'll wind up falling in love despite their family's hatred of eachother.

All the bitching about people wanking is just pointing out the annoying window dressing and ignoring the deeper problem.

The only reason I keep poking my head in is because I think FT RPs have potential to be good. However more and more I'm certain I'd get more enjoyment out of posting original fiction on other forums and Fictionpress.net.

My posts are in English because that's the lingua franca (excuse the pun) of this forum. That said, it's pretty clear that the Vah speak a language very different from anything humans speak, which is why I sprinkle in native words for such things as "comrade", "officer", "baton", "shotgun", "meat-being", and so forth. It gives you the sense that this really is an alien, and that it's not speaking English.In the Command Center of the Research Station

“Cut all power to non-essential systems; drop to minimal lighting,” snapped R*grk'h. “V'aak, go to the hangar complex and take personal command of the troops who await the alien attack; you can use the secondary environmental control station there as needed. We'll seal ourselves off as soon as you leave.”

V'aak closed its mouth flaps in acknowledgment and raised a fist in salute. “Good luck,” it grunted; then turned and left with its escort.

“Good luck, chok'ah,” replied R*grk'h softly. Then it motioned to its guards to seal the blast doors, checked its vved luch*, satisfied itself that the weapon was ready to use, and turned back to the expectant faces of its command staff.

“It begins,” the cho'kaav declared. “Fire three of the missiles at the super-battleship.”Beyond that, the 2300AD canon has fun with attempts by humans and Vah alike to translate each others' language(s); it gets even more hysterically funny when the translations get intercepted and "round-tripped" back into English!On the Bridge of the Battlecruiser Iron ClawMessage Intercept:

"Y'all can send in th' big boys now. Ain't nothin' movin' ou' here but us.”Real-Time Translation:

“The large(?) offspring will be sent on a small sailing ship. We alone are being carried by ants(?)”Swift Runner cursed the inability of the real-time translator to handle the bizarre idiomatic speech of the meat-beings. It suspected that the message was a call for the barbarians to send colony ships of some kind – “The large(?) offspring will be sent on a small sailing ship” – probably a small forerunner vessel filled predominantly with adolescents and prepubescent children, since these would adapt to the new environment faster, consume fewer supplies, and arrive at breeding age sooner. Whatever the case, this was an opportunity to capture some of them for further study. The Vah found meat-beings perplexing, grotesque, and frightening all at once; more study was very definitely indicated.Of course, sometimes players don't get the joke, and sometimes they even get upset and confused.
The fleet arrived in the system where there was already what appeared to be two different races. The Lac'tar opened a channel to the planet.
To: unknown race on planet III of the system P14374
from: Explorer fleet 1
Body: This is the first waterhelper explorer flotilla. We would like to request diplomatic relations with your. We shall await your answer.(... One incoming squadron broadcast a transmission that still defied translation - something about helping those who were drowning(?) – while the other aliens remained stonily silent. Could this be the prelude to a battle?((was that for me... whats with the ... drowning?))Waterhelper apparently didn't see the irony of his nation's name being translated into "lifeguard".

So next time you trot out your "Universal Translator" in a first contact situation, stop and ask yourself if you're having anywhere near as much fun as you could have...

On the matter of language, I do RP some of my characters knowing the Universal Standard Language, or USL for short, better known as American English.

Of course, as that's not all my characters, I took the usual tech way out and created an universal translator type deal that has a big version built into a ship's comm gear with smaller, personal versions. Though, it does take time to work out a translation matrix, and it'll still have rough edges that will be smoothed out along the way as its refined.

Having a language barrier should, IMHO, make for some interesting first contact RP situations.

Come on, we don't all RP as humans, so we should not all use a human language as our national standard. Agreed?

Then of course theres the fact that translation systems exist. Which allows you to understand, well, anyone. Language barriers are just something that has to be overcome at a first contact, but the virtue of everyone speaking english is a purely OOC matter.

If you wanted to speak in some kind of alien tongue, you could. We'd simply not waste time dealing with Xeno filth and annihilate the source :) ^^

Original TextThen of course theres the fact that translation systems exist. Which allows you to understand, well, anyone. Language barriers are just something that has to be overcome at a first contact, but the virtue of everyone speaking english is a purely OOC matter.

If you wanted to speak in some kind of alien tongue, you could. We'd simply not waste time dealing with Xeno filth and annihilate the source.English-French-EnglishThen naturally theres the fact that the translation systems exist. What enables you to include/understand, well, no matter who. The linguistic barriers are right something which must be surmounted with a first contact, but the virtue of each one speaking English is purely a question of OOC.

If you want to speak in a certain kind about foreign language, you could. We would simply not waste the treating time of the refuse of Xeno and let us not destroy the source.English-Dutch-EnglishThen natural theres the fact that there vertaalsystemen exist. Which you permit, well, understand everyone. The language barriers are only something which must be overcome at a first contact, but the virtue of everyone is speaking English pure a question OOC.

If you speak savage in one or other type strange tongue, was possible u. the detritus time which of We'd simple vuiligheid does not treat Xeno and destroys the source.English-German-EnglishThen naturally theres the fact that systems exist translation. Which permits you to understand well everyone. Language barriers are somewhat fair, which must be overcome at a first contact, but the virtue of each speaking English is one only OOC affair.

If you wanted to speak foreign tongue in any kind, they could we the time would simply not waste, which Xeno dirt busily and which destroys source.English-Spanish-EnglishThen of course theres the fact that the systems of the translation exist. Which allows that you understand, well, any person. Right the linguísticas barriers are something that it has to be surpassed in a first contact, but the virtue of each one English of speech is purely a OOC question.

If you wished to speak in a certain class of foreign tongue-piece, you could. We would not simply waste the time that deals with the inmundicia of Xeno and would not annihilate the source.English-Portuguese-EnglishThen of course theres the fact that the systems of the translation exist. Which allows that you it understands, well, any one. The language barriers are jousts something that has that to be surpassed in a first contact, but virtue of all talkative English is purely a OOC substance.

If you it wanted to speak in some type of the foreign tongue-piece, you could. We simply would not waste the time that deals with filth of Foreigner and not annihilate the source.English-Italian-EnglishThen naturally theres the fact that the translation systems exist. Which it allows that you understand, well, anyone. Just the linguistiche barriers are something that must be sormontata to a first contact, but the virtue of all speaking English is pure a OOC aspect.

If you wished to speak in a sure kind about linguetta foreign, you could. We would not simply waste the time that is taken care of the soil of Xeno and not annihilate the source.English-Greek-EnglishThen theres naturally the make that the systems of translations exist. Whoever allows in you in order to it occupies, well, each one. The linguistic obstacles are precisely something that should is overcome in a first contact, but the virtue each one speaking English is a clearly subject OOC.

If you wanted to speak to the certain alien language, you could. Simply we would not waste the time that examines the filth Foreigner and ekmidenj'zame the source.English-Russian-EnglishOf Course Theres The fact that of transfer system there exist after this. Makes it possible you to understand, in the best way, any. Yazykovoya barrier are valid something must be pulled on the first contact, but in the virtue of each speaking English it will be pure matter OOC.

If you wanted to have a talk in the certain form alien of language, then you was able. We simply not rastochitel'stvovali time associating with filth Xeno and would not annihilate source.English-Finnish-EnglishThen from course there case that version system be. Which pass you to apprehend, well, that ever. Usage enclosure are just some that has to be overcome at first communicate, but advantage from every eloquent english is merely OOC subject.

If you wanted to speak in some good from alien tongue, you. We'd but no waste period communion with Xeno filth and blight source.English-Hungarian-EnglishThen absolutely there the fact that translation systems she does exists. Which yield your are yield understands, well, everyman. Language limitations there is only something that possesses yield be whip on one first connection , but the honour ból everyone talking English you've got a purely OOC substance.

If your are she's wanted yield speaks ban some sort foreign language, your are could. We'd in a simple way not devastated time goings-on val Xenogamy colly and expunge the source.English-Turkish-EnglishThen den direction there the true many. that translation system exist. which leave you had straight understand, well, someone. Tongue obstacle are just something many. That bkz. have had straight be overcome arrive a first contact , but the merit den everyone talk English bkz. Hi a pure OOC matter.

If you wish for had straight talk in a little species den strange tongue, you ebil. We'd simply not wasteful expenditure time dealing with xenon dirtiness and exterminate the spring.English-Welsh-EnglishI do of course I cleared group fact I go translation systems be. I go adapt dogs to understand, well, anyone. Speech checks he is being just something I go ace to be overcome about I go heartburn point touch, except group virtue with everyone speaking English he is being I go heartburn incorrupt OOC matter.

Or dogs caesura to I speak in sex kind with exile tongue, you were able. We heartburn heartburn guileless not I waste I time treating Xeno filth I go I annihilate group source.English-Icelandic-EnglishThen of course there the matter of fact ;l) compilation system be to. Who permit you to understand, well, ;fn). Language stumbling art righteous credit with ;l) hast to be win river a primordial touch, while the virtue with everyone talk English is a strictly OOC matter.

Maybe you chance irrational number into some kind with outlander tongue, ). Alluvial with we had or we would simply not waste while dealing with Xenolith shit and extirpate the wellspring.English-Arabic-EnglishAfterwards [['af] Goris] [[thrs]] the truth that translation exists [nDHaamaat]. Any you allow to understands, Well, Any person. [[lnGj] [brryr]] correct thing to daughter-in-law be compelled communication of first defeated in, Nevertheless the virtuous person from all person speaks the English language purely [['awk]] matter.

Indeed you wanted to some strange kind from tongue speaks in, You could. We do not scatter simply time treats with [['iksnw]] filth and the source annihilates.You were saying​?

Teehee.

Of course the future has far more effecient translation systems.

The English - Welsh - English one wins.

Teehee.

Of course the future has far more effecient translation systems.And it also has far more exotic tongues.

There are no online translators for Sumerian, Egyptian Demotic, Mayan, or Minoan B; if there were, I bet you'd see even more bady butchered translations. As humanity expands out across a million million worlds, what kinds of linguistic changes will occur? Since language conveys core intellectual concepts, and different cultures can think in very different terms (e.g., in Russian there are two forms of every verb - one for ongoing activities for which there is no apparent end in sight, and one for those things that will definitely come to an end ["They've been working on that portion of the expressway forever!" versus "This construction of I-696 was finished in the early 90's"] and they also have an instrumental case, expressing the notion that one thing is the agent or handiwork of something else; these are concepts that are hard to translate easily into English - and this is just with two languages spoken by humans living on the same planet!).

Which, of course, brings us to aliens. You can certainly take an anthropomorphic view of the universe and figure that humankind, God's darling creation, will reign over everyone and everything; you can even take the chauvinistic view that those blasted aliens ought to learn to speak English/USL/Esperanto/Whatever, or we're going to blast them into atoms. But aliens are a staple of science fiction, and it's just plain silly to expect that understanding them (or getting them to understand us) is going to be a simple matter of either teaching them all the "common" tongue or handing them some nifty gizmo that does it all for them.

I'm not saying that you have to turn your posts into incomprehensible gibberish. I'm just saying that incorporating the notion that communication may sometimes be difficult may make for poor movies, but it can often make for very good storytelling, as more than one author has shown.The English - Welsh - English one wins.Propre, Mi pensis la Araban tradukon estis la plej bona, ĉar estas plej proksima al la tordita onies Mi uz en miaj fadenoj. Sed preskaŭ ili ĉiuj havas sian propran ĉarmon.Or translated from USL... ;)Ownly, I thought the Arabic translation was the best, because is nearest to the twisted some people me uz in my threads. But almost they all have their own charm.Personally, I thought the Arabic translation was the best, because it's closest to the mangled ones I use in my threads. But almost all of them have their own charm.Which reminds me...English-Esperanto-EnglishThen understandably there the fact, that translation systems exists. Which permits you to find out, well, somebody. A language bars is just something, what musts be defeated at a first contact, but the virtue of everybody parol English is solely OOC matter.

If you wanted to speak in some kind of foreign language, you could. Us..us simplely not malŝpar a time pritrakt Xeno an un-clean-thing (j) and eksterm the source.

And it also has far more exotic tongues.

There are no online translators for Sumerian, Egyptian Demotic, Mayan, or Minoan B; if there were, I bet you'd see even more bady butchered translations. As humanity expands out across a million million worlds, what kinds of linguistic changes will occur? Since language conveys core intellectual concepts, and different cultures can think in very different terms (e.g., in Russian there are two forms of every verb - one for ongoing activities for which there is no apparent end in sight, and one for those things that will definitely come to an end ["They've been working on that portion of the expressway forever!" versus "This construction of I-696 was finished in the early 90's"] and they also have an instrumental case, expressing the notion that one thing is the agent or handiwork of something else; these are concepts that are hard to translate easily into English - and this is just with two languages spoken by humans living on the same planet!).

Which, of course, brings us to aliens. You can certainly take an anthropomorphic view of the universe and figure that humankind, God's darling creation, will reign over everyone and everything; you can even take the chauvinistic view that those blasted aliens ought to learn to speak English/USL/Esperanto/Whatever, or we're going to blast them into atoms. But aliens are a staple of science fiction, and it's just plain silly to expect that understanding them (or getting them to understand us) is going to be a simple matter of either teaching them all the "common" tongue or handing them some nifty gizmo that does it all for them.

I'm not saying that you have to turn your posts into incomprehensible gibberish. I'm just saying that incorporating the notion that communication may sometimes be difficult may make for poor movies, but it can often make for very good storytelling, as more than one author has shown.Propre, Mi pensis la Araban tradukon estis la plej bona, ĉar estas plej proksima al la tordita onies Mi uz en miaj fadenoj. Sed preskaŭ ili ĉiuj havas sian propran ĉarmon.Or translated from USL... ;)Ownly, I thought the Arabic translation was the best, because is nearest to the twisted some people me uz in my threads. But almost they all have their own charm.Which reminds me...

True, but my point is, regardless of how difficult communication starts out as, you can usually find some form of common understanding, visual communication of some kind, using pictures perhaps, and translators will handle the later issues. Like with the Tau and the Vespid and those amusing helms. :) It would only, therefor, make good storytelling for the beginning of the RP, the first contact, before the language barrier is breached. Limiting its effectiveness and its longevity.

All communication has a basis, no matter how complex or different. How do you explain for example how everyone in the world, no matter their race, culture, or language, all know what a smile means? Even if a language is a barrier, facial and body expression should not be (in reference to humans only of course) in the FT world. Besides, who wants to spend (if its not meant to be in the story) several posts just trying to figure out if that alien said "we come in peace" or "your mother is my ho"?

In that case, I would go along with Chrons example: "blast that ship!"

Ever heard of auto-translating? It's the thing that lets us watch Star Wars in English even though they're speaking Basic in universe.

The same deal goes for NS, they're speaking whatever the hell you want them to be, but you write it in english just to make it easier.

Ever heard of auto-translating? It's the thing that lets us watch Star Wars in English even though they're speaking Basic in universe.

The same deal goes for NS, they're speaking whatever the hell you want them to be, but you write it in english just to make it easier.They're referring to entities who, despite being previously unaware of each others existence, are instantaneously capable of understanding each other perfectly, not to the language the posts themselves are written in...

Sometimes one just has to point out the blatantly obvious, I guess.

They're referring to entities who, despite being previously unaware of each others existence, are instantaneously capable of understanding each other perfectly, not to the language the posts themselves are written in...

Sometimes one just has to point out the blatantly obvious, I guess.

The impression I got was that they were actually wanted people to post in a different language before communications are possible. I knew that they were talking about first contact, I am not a moron.

Heres to C'tan, [...] who've made it worthwhile to stick around here, and kept me amused, and standards high

I'm touched. No, really! Now go post to our thread curse you! :D And you too, Vernii!

I'll read the rest of this thread tomorrow *Yawn* but, I will say, it is really depressing when one sees some psychotic loon jump in with str dystroyers and attack every single Intro-RP. It's part of why I seek those threads out and contrive reasons (dubious ones, to be sure) to be there.

And I make no bones about actually using outright magical devices to translate unknown languages, though in some threads in the past I've apparently left them at home. ;)

And you too, Vernii!

Ach! I totally forgot about that. I'll try and do it tonight, really sorry about well, the long delay. : /

But yeah, great points on first contact communications problems, which is one of the reasons I rarely get involved in first contact intro RPs.

All communication has a basis, no matter how complex or different. How do you explain for example how everyone in the world, no matter their race, culture, or language, all know what a smile means? Even if a language is a barrier, facial and body expression should not be (in reference to humans only of course) in the FT world.

To humans only of course being key!



And that's a question I have consistently asked myself. Why are humans everywhere? Some even claim humans to be native to particular places other than Earth. Which is, of course, nonsense, and yet still happens. How come?

To humans only of course being key!



And that's a question I have consistently asked myself. Why are humans everywhere? Some even claim humans to be native to particular places other than Earth. Which is, of course, nonsense, and yet still happens. How come?

Humans could have been spread or seeded across the galaxy and forgotten their origins. Fragments of a once unified Empire, slave labor taken to serve across existence. Dealers choice, really.

Humans could have been spread or seeded across the galaxy and forgotten their origins. Fragments of a once unified Empire, slave labor taken to serve across existence. Dealers choice, really.

*nods at what Chron said*

Indeed, it is as varied as the number of words that Russians have for 'white'.

Besides, who wants to spend (if its not meant to be in the story) several posts just trying to figure out if that alien said "we come in peace" or "your mother is my ho"?

In that case, I would go along with Chrons example: "blast that ship!"And how many sci-fi tales have been written around that very theme? Tons! But we hardly see any of them here, which goes to the point of this thread.

As for Chronisia's comments about communication after first contact, I'll agree with some reservations. In 2300AD (my canon), both humanity and the Vah managed to figure out each other languages (well, sort of) by the end of the Second Kafer War (IOW, within 5-7 years of first contact). In fact, both the words Kafer (“cockroach” - what humans call the Vah) and Fleischwessen (“meat-being” - what the Vah call humans when they want the humans to know what they're being called) are German in origin, dating back to the Vah occupation of Hochbaden (a German colonial world) during the Second Kafer War (Fleischwessen was a German word Vah soldiers learned in order to taunt their German prisoners). Another Vah Gnich* (“thinker”) who interrogated French prisoners taken when the Arcturus research station fell a year or two before the First Kafer War came to be known as “Sartre” because it not only learned French, but learned it well enough to read and become somewhat conversant with the famous French existentialist's writings.

Still, there are going to be words and concepts that will simply not be comprehensible to most (if not all) of the denizens of other cultures, even among human beings. How many of you can explain the precise meaning of the Japanese word wa, or tell me what the Lakota saying, “Today is a good day to die,” really means?

*nods at what Chron said*

Indeed, it is as varied as the number of words that Russians have for 'white'.You know of one besides бело?!?Humans could have been spread or seeded across the galaxy and forgotten their origins. Fragments of a once unified Empire, slave labor taken to serve across existence. Dealers choice, really.Several scientists have published calculations showing that humanity could colonize the entire Milky Way galaxy in somewhere between 10 and 60 million years even if FTL travel is impossible (in fact, that 60 million year estimate [Eric Jones, 1976 & 1981] assumes a maximum speed of .1c for human starflight!).

So one of the most common concepts underlying most fiction featuring “galactic empires” is that humans fanned out across the galaxy from <insert original but now lost cradle of humanity here> in an exodus farther beyond human memory than our original departure from Olduvai Gorge.

The problem with this approach in an RP environment as free-form as this is that it all but excludes aliens, since humanity would have done to them what it did to the Neanderthals millions of years ago. Aliens would have had to come from other galaxies or from places where humans didn't or couldn't go (which would be where, precisely?).

Unfortunately the truth is that, however we choose to incorporate aliens into sci-fi, we have logical problems. This is because, in reality, intelligent aliens probably don't exist (see the Wikipedia article on the Fermi Paradox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox))

Unfortunately, the truth is that, however we choose to incorporate aliens into sci-fi, we have logical problems. This is because, in reality, intelligent aliens probably don't exist.

In the Milky Way at any rate, due to the aforementioned Fermi Paradox and other reasons.

However when using the Drake equation on the universe at large an intelligent non-human species becomes inevitable. The universe is just to big.

I have wondered that since tech is so much more advanced, and therefore it should take much less of your population to run the economy, then why can't you put more people into the military?
Why would they want to? Assuming your civilisation is crude enough (in FT terms) not to have conquered death, why would vast hordes of people want to join the army? Rigid discipline and orders aren't for everyone.I mean you can run a mine with a few people and a couple of hundred droids that are programed to do a few jobs, like run this and that. Same with manufacturing, robots build cars in RL, so why can't a single person be able to run a large automated factory or several factories. Same with shipbiulding.and making food. Masive hyrdoincs facilties in orbit could by totaly automated linked to a signle control station. This is the future, so make it more realistic.I quite agree, but that most certainly doesn't mean everyone's going to immediately go 'HI HO INTO THE ARMY!' on the contrary, you're likely to see a massive growth of the service industries to a degree even than today's First World countries.

For one, droids and robots and all analogous machines therein count towards your population;
I think not. Only if they're self-aware would they count in that manner. C-3PO would. A robot arm in a Toyota factory would not.
Two, you still have those people, now they're just unemployed, sucking on welfare.
And there's a problem with that? I wouldn't have expected to be arguing such, but capitalism isn't the end all. Marx-style communist arguments have often been predicated on just such advancements in automation.

I was wondering about the matter of using NS population figures for FT nations. It seems to me that there's no need to have a star empire if you don't have more people than your one planet can hold. [...]
Opinions?

People would still want to expand if it's at all practical. And so would governments - being on one planet alone means that you only have to lose one battle to perish.

You know of one besides бело?!?Several scientists have published calculations showing that humanity could colonize the entire Milky Way galaxy in somewhere between 10 and 60 million years even if FTL travel is impossible (in fact, that 60 million year estimate [Eric Jones, 1976 & 1981] assumes a maximum speed of .1c for human starflight!).
*Brooms his nation's history as a pre-FTL galactic empire under the rug*
The problem with this approach in an RP environment as free-form as this is that it all but excludes aliens, since humanity would have done to them what it did to the Neanderthals millions of years ago.
Assuming it was strong enough, and that there was actual competition for resources, neither of which are necessarily so.
Unfortunately the truth is that, however we choose to incorporate aliens into sci-fi, we have logical problems. This is because, in reality, intelligent aliens probably don't exist (see the Wikipedia article on the Fermi Paradox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox))
The resolution I use for that is that EM communications are only predominant for a short period of a civilisation's life, a few centuries or so, before internally, optical linkages and directed beams to satellites take over planetary communications, and QE style ansibles out compete radio over interplanetary distances.

There is also the 'keep very quiet' routine. A civilisation eventually realises that if there are technological aliens at an advanced technology level, they got there by not taking chances with their survival: and that if they're noticed and considered any kind of threat by a more advanced civilisation, they're going to be dealing with high-distort rockets coming their way. Hence, they shut up and stop sending detectable signals.a