NationStates Jolt Archive

As the Holy Empire of The Aeson was destroyed by nuclear assault.

Due to the fact that the Holy Empire did not have sufficently powerful weaponry to discourage said assault.

Recognizing that the Holy Confederacy of New Aeson is currently at war.

Therefore all arms manufactures, nations, groups, or communties are offered a chance to recieve a contract for the ultimate MAD deterrent.

Price is no object, although massive prices may have to be payed in installments.

The weapon must be PMT possible.

We desire the exclusive rights to this weapon.

The weapon must be able to sufficently deter a nation so as to make the idea of nuclear assault on New Aeson completely unpalatable.

The weapon, must, to a reasonable degree, by able to bypass, circumvent, destroy, or otherwise defeat missile defense systems of other nations.

Have at it then.

(OOC: I am a PMT nation so I believe I can be of assistance.)

Greetings.

The Imperial Dynasty of Crimson Blades is quite interested in your proposal. our privately owned, Government funded and operated weapons firm, one of the most renowned and well respected in history, will be more than willing to devise an option that we believe will be of great service to you. If there is anything you would like to discuss, or if you would be so kind as to enlighten us to any details about what you are looking for, we would be happy to do business with you and your nation.

Andreas Reichal-Huntzinger III
Representative Government Liason of CrimTech Industries

To: Andreas Reichal-Huntzinger III

We thank you for your interest. There are only a couple of key points not included in the official commission. First, security. We don't want a weapon operated from a supposedly 'secure' website on the internet, or anything like that. Second, we would like to avoid negative effects on countries bordering or otherwise near the country that is as the recieving end of the weapon. Finally, we would like there to be failsafes, so that up until the moment that the weapon actually fires, the strike can be canceled.

Sorry if you read this before i edited it The nation of Sochatopia places a bid for such a system.

Fractional Orbital Bombardment System (FOBS) was a Soviet ICBM program in the 1960s that after launch would go into a low Earth orbit and would then de-orbit for an attack. It had no range limit and the orbital flight path would not reveal the target location.

This would allow a path to North America over the South Pole, hitting targets from the south, which is the opposite direction from which NORAD early warning systems are oriented.

The Outer Space Treaty banned nuclear weapons or weapons of mass destruction in earth orbit. However, it did not ban systems that were capable of placing weapons in orbit, and the Soviet Union avoided violating the treaty by conducting tests of its FOBS system without live warheads.

The Soviets developed three missiles to employ FOBS, with only one entering service:

Since then the nation of Sochatopia has devoloped such a system but changed some things the missles are now stealthy and have LAA.

LAA long atmospheric approch capibilitys. LAA means you can lauch a stealth missle in the air and a week later you can call it down on a target or launch it harmlessly in to space.

Stealth includes RAM radar asobent material is put all over the missle in addition it is shaped to refract many diffrent types of radar. If by some chance the missle is deceted it can deploy a counter a dummy warhead that can fool missle defence systems to track it insted of the real missle.


Speed in orbit the missle can reach the speed of mach15 using the earths elector magntic feild. Rentry speed mach 25 using earths gravity.

Payload includes up to 12 rentry vehicals each 150KT payload or 4 rentry vehicals each 450KT warheads or 2 900KT warhead or 1 1800KT warhead.

Price
Option 1 missle station includes 20 missle silos with 1 FOBS per silo. 500,000,000,000 We will instale the Missle Stations. may purchase more than one instaltion 1.5 NS years

Option 2 Domestic Production rights for missles 10,000,000,000,000 promise not to sell rights.

To: Andreas Reichal-Huntzinger III

We thank you for your interest. There are only a couple of key points not included in the official commission. First, security. We don't want a weapon operated from a supposedly 'secure' website on the internet, or anything like that. Second, we would like to avoid negative effects on countries bordering or otherwise near the country that is as the recieving end of the weapon. Finally, we would like there to be failsafes, so that up until the moment that the weapon actually fires, the strike can be canceled.


We at CrimTech firmly believe that security is made easier when there are less ways to operate the system in question. Any computer system can be hacked. so with less computer control and more human interaction needed to launch the weapon, the chances of a grave mistake being made are cut back drasticly. Relate it to a simple machine, the less movable parts, the less it breaks.

Now I assume that everyone is thinking the same thing when this topic is brought up and that is "Missile". but effects and limitations like the ones that you have mentioned can be acheived using alternative methods. Missiles, like all ordinance, can be deterred. It is due to this fact that CrimTech has diverted its attention to weaponry that CANNOT be deterred by a defending nation. The power to deploy, and to scrub, shall be left in the hands of the attacker, and because of this, the weapon in question must only be used in extreme circumstances. and of course, as a deterrent to any nations that may be contemplating a pre-meditated attack on you.

Do make yourself aware however, that any weapon information given out to a foriegn nation may never be used to harm or disrup the civilian, military, or federal assets and or operations executed by the Imperial Dynasty of Crimson Blades. Faliure to comply with this regulation will result in concequinces that niether party finds attractive.

I will be willing to discuss deal options at any time.

Andreas Riechal-Huntzinger III

To Andreas Riechal-Huntzinger III

This technology sounds promising, and we are deeply interested. Before we start talking price though, I would like to know exactly what type of technology and capabilities we are talking about here. If you do not feel comfortable discussing this in such a public venue- perfectly understandable- then please feel free to telegram me.

OOC: Sochatopia: RAM has the annoying tendency to melt at high temperatures, very like the temperatures present during atmospheric reentry, or even just a high-speed ballistic trajectory.

Message To The Aeson
From: Mondoth Arms Ltd.

Mondoth Arms Ltd. would like to interest you in another sort of 'detterence' than they kind you have requested. Instead of developing some sort of 'super weapon' to deter the use of nuclear weapons against your nation, why not develope an integrated aerospace defense network, comprised of a combination of Brilliant Pebble style orbital and high altitude defenses and a ground based missile defense network made up of specially designed Rolling Airframe missiles capable of intercepting high speed ballistic targets before the become a threat to your nation.
Using a system such as this will allow you to defend against a nuclear strike and then retaliate at your pleasure, with out the need of having a MAD system continually ready.

OOC: Or for that matter, why not both? Heeheehee.

IC: To Mondoth Arms Ltd.

We would be very interested in purchasing such a system, although installation would have to be delayed, as there is currenty an invading force on our soil. Please, send us the details and the price.

As the Holy Empire of The Aeson was destroyed by nuclear assault.

Due to the fact that the Holy Empire did not have sufficently powerful weaponry to discourage said assault.

Recognizing that the Holy Confederacy of New Aeson is currently at war.

Therefore all arms manufactures, nations, groups, or communties are offered a chance to recieve a contract for the ultimate MAD deterrent.

Price is no object, although massive prices may have to be payed in installments.

The weapon must be PMT possible.

We desire the exclusive rights to this weapon.

The weapon must be able to sufficently deter a nation so as to make the idea of nuclear assault on New Aeson completely unpalatable.

The weapon, must, to a reasonable degree, by able to bypass, circumvent, destroy, or otherwise defeat missile defense systems of other nations.

Have at it then.

Hmm, late MT/early PMT solution to a late PMT problem...


The really big explosion (doesn't even need to be real, just pull a David Copperfield)
Public use of banned weapons during live fire exercise (such as gassing troops) to test their effectiveness and make it look powerful.
"The Doomsday device" from Dr. Strangelove or "how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb"
The IGNORE/"easy" button
Zombies in space... (and lots of them)
Fire... And lots of it
Invite the leaders of the enemy nations to a party and poision/infect them all, thus killing the entire top of the enemy's government and their replacement leaders
Vladimyr Lennin (May cause Political "blowback")
Orbital weapons platforms (WMD MLRS in space)
Pigeon Guided cruise missiles (trained to peck a touchscreen image of target fed through lens in noes)


The biggest problem with PMT MAD deterant, is that 'nations' would have become so massive that they are starting to colonize other worlds, therefore, wrecking a planet or two would only be compareabe to nuking a major city IRL.

(Also the entire NS nation population > entire world population issue)

And any single device that can destroy galaxies/Nations in one use and has a low chance of interception borderlines on Godmod even in MT (FT looks as if anything goes).

Hence your problem.

Keep in mind a MAD deterant was what was supposed to prevent World War I, it failed.

Hmm, late MT/early PMT solution to a late PMT problem...


The really big explosion (doesn't even need to be real, just pull a David Copperfield)
Public use of banned weapons during live fire exercise (such as gassing troops) to test their effectiveness and make it look powerful.
"The Doomsday device" from Dr. Strangelove or "how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb"
The IGNORE/"easy" button
Zombies in space... (and lots of them)
Fire... And lots of it
Invite the leaders of the eney nations to a party and poision/infect them all, thus killing the entire top of the enemy's government and their replacement leaders
Vladimyr Lennin


The biggest problem with PMT MAD deterant, is that 'nations' would have become so massive that they are starting to colonize other worlds, therefore, wrecking a planet or two would only be compareabe to nuking a major city IRL.

(Also the entire NS nation population > entire world population issue)

And any single device that can destroy galaxies/Nations in one use and has a low chance of interception borderlines on Godmod even in MT (FT looks as if anything goes).

Hence your problem.

Keep in mind a MAD deterant was what was supposed to prevent World War I, it failed.

OOC: I'm not trying to prevent a war, I'm trying to prevent my getting turned into a sheet of glass again. Since nuclear weaponry wasn't a powerful enough deterrent, I'm upgrading.

Could always do the clancy thing, and have sleeper operatives attempt to infilitrate the security detail of a foreign leader over the course of many, many years.

OOC:The only reason you got glassed in the first place is because you used a biological weapon on Kraven in Arterus. Don't nuke people and you generally won't get nuked. In response to your question, an effective MAD deterrent doesn't exist in NS, due to the $insane amount of ABM. The BEST sort of MAD would be a lot of nuclear missiles, enough to beat ANY non-godmod ABM.

OOC: I'm not trying to prevent a war, I'm trying to prevent my getting turned into a sheet of glass again. Since nuclear weaponry wasn't a powerful enough deterrent, I'm upgrading.

Use whatever they used only more of it then. (Enough to turn all your enemies into sheet glass with a wide margin left over to handle weapons lost to enemy assaults)

(And make sure yours will reach their targets first even if you launched after they did)

Otherwise you are looking for an Anti-MAD weapon (MAD means both nations become sheet glass, Anti-MAD means that your nation won't become sheet glass [his might though]).

Still, overthrowing/killing they enemy government before they turn your world into glass would have a good chance of working, for awhile at least.

2 best things to use in conjunction with whatever "Primary deterant" you choose.

Propoganda, world's best and most humane weapon. (Be a superpower even when you are not, an example would be:
Over half the missiles displayed at the May Day parade where emtpy shells filled with nuclear waste (or water) to produce a specified amount of radiation or to simulate carrying fuel, oxidizer and chemical agent)

Intelligence, makes use of weapons all the more powerful. (Without it you would be literally shooting blind and would believe everything you are told)

Also, like the doomsday device, deterant only works if they think you have it.
This would get rid of any surprise in the event that you actually used it.
(By the end of the movie, they had already figured out how to survive the Doomsday device, and therefore where back on the hair trigger they started on)

Enough of the problem, now my solution:

PROHT offers their services to eliminate any nation of choice for a flat fee of $10 trillion.

As the Holy Empire of The Aeson was destroyed by nuclear assault.

Due to the fact that the Holy Empire did not have sufficently powerful weaponry to discourage said assault.

Recognizing that the Holy Confederacy of New Aeson is currently at war.

Therefore all arms manufactures, nations, groups, or communties are offered a chance to recieve a contract for the ultimate MAD deterrent.

Price is no object, although massive prices may have to be payed in installments.

The weapon must be PMT possible.

We desire the exclusive rights to this weapon.

The weapon must be able to sufficently deter a nation so as to make the idea of nuclear assault on New Aeson completely unpalatable.

The weapon, must, to a reasonable degree, by able to bypass, circumvent, destroy, or otherwise defeat missile defense systems of other nations.

Have at it then.

I am a hired ambassador for another nation. They are good at weapons.
A couple options for you:

-Bomb that rains molten copper (name unknown. For more info, see FUTUREWEAPONS)

-MOABs

-Toxic waste Bombs: Gak surrounding a charge. AA/SAM fire activates the charge and spews gak (lab waste, nuclear waste... anything gross, really) on them. Also compatible with acid.

-EMP: disables electronics in a grand area.

-AMB: Most powerful bomb theoretically possible. Adaptable for mortars, NLOS tanks, etc. Tech secret. HINT OF POWER:
E=mc^2 (only we have the materials)

-Solar collector beam: Shoots giant solar beam.

These are our only publicly releaseable options.

TG me for more.

-AMB: Most powerful bomb theoretically possible. Adaptable for mortars, NLOS tanks, etc. Tech secret. HINT OF POWER:
E=mc^2 (only we have the materials)

-Solar collector beam: Shoots giant solar beam.

These are our only publicly releaseable options.

TG me for more.


Please explain the 'AMB'? It sounds like a nuclear bomb. Solar collector is ineffective for shooting from atmosphere to ground because the particles would be dispersed when going down to the ground and the energy wouldn't be enough to do any damage.

(Looks at above post)

"Ohk, that was strange....."

Weapon submitions:
36" Railgun Mortar
Fires a 5 metric ton shell at a rate of 1 round every 2 minutes per gun.

Non-interceptable (At least not without FT ABM systems), range in excess of 150 miles, self-contained power source.

Recommended that you keep these on railway mounts, since it is not possable to move ammunition and gun on same unit unless on rails.

The biggest drawbacks to these are range, rate of fire, and the sheer logistics to move a 10 ton shell, let alone enough to supply a battery with a day's worth of shells.

The gun mount however does have many redeeming qualities, such as LOS anti-tank capabilities (able to knock out PMT HBTs [maybe even a few SHBTs])

Many secrets to this design, such as how to get 2 mile long conductive rail guides for the gun, how to keep them from burning out, and the portable conventional power unit that fires the shells and charges the rails.

5 and 10 ton Chemical Weapon Canisters
Normally used as an FAE for demolishing large sections of cities.
Not to be confused with 36"/900 mm Mortar shell.

KESH
Kinetic Energy Squash Head, saw operational use 1935 by the Polish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kb_ppanc_wz.35)
Managed 40 mm penetration with 7.92 mm bullets made mostly of lead.

Now imagine if you scale it up to 5", use electromgnetic railgun velocities of over 20,000 m/s, and DU shells. Penetration of 10,000 mm of RHA would be expected. Rough approximations.

Bomb that rains molten copper (name unknown. For more info, see FUTUREWEAPONS)
How is this a weapon of MAD/Anti-MAD?

And then theere is always the method of hiring another nation to have their leaders 'whacked'.

To Hurtful Thoughts: We would like to purchase the production rights to the 36" Railgun Mortar, as well as to ask if it could be mounted on a battleship or other naval vessel.

However, we are still searching for other weapons.

To Hurtful Thoughts: We would like to purchase the production rights to the 36" Railgun Mortar, as well as to ask if it could be mounted on a battleship or other naval vessel.

However, we are still searching for other weapons.

Excellent choice.

Yes, it is mountable on a boat, provided it has a strong keel and plenty of freeboard and only fires on gun at a time. (Though it may fire a salvoe in rapid fire)

We also sell a smaller less capable (and simpler and more 'conventional') 36" SP mortar, the HTM-136 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10723816&postcount=5), it is amphibious, and may carry 10 rounds on its extirior (though it bogs down/swamps when it does).

We also sell one labeled MC-36 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10723793&postcount=2), the gun you wish to purchase is the MC-36UER 36" Mortar (Not pictured).
(Picture provided in link is misleading, the tube is 36" diameter, and the crawler [A SHBT] was provided by another country)

Price open to highest bidder.

Manual to use a railway mounted MC-36UER Mortar:
Firing a UER shell:
Load propellants into barrel and charge both FCG capacitors with their respective #100 magnetic "slugs".

Load 5 ton shell through muzzle, attach wire leads from base of shell.

Aim

Turn on lasers to ionize air, do not move gun at this time, let air charge for 2 seconds, then press the fire button wich will fire the shell upwards and forwards and the two "slugs" down and to the rear

This action counters some of the recoil and charges the rails.

The shell will then spool out the wire (which remains tought the duration of flight for 2 miles due to acceleration), these wire are repelled and therefore no arcing occurs.

Cut wires after shell has traveled 2 miles or impacted target.

Repeat.

OOC: KESH doesn't scale very well, once you get bigger than about 155-200mms then you're just as well off using traditional KE as KESH
also, I'm interested in why you have lasers Ionize the air prior to firing the Railmortar

IC:
While the current state of your nation does prevent the installation of the anti-missile batteries, we can begin deployment of the Brilliant Pebbles system immediatey as it is an orbital weapon system.
The price for deployment of the necesary number of Brilliant Pebbles sub-systems to provide maximum coverage for your nation is
$4 billion USD.

[OOC: The Aeson, can you please describe your definition of Post Modern Tech? After all, there is no unified definition for everything on NS, as it is a free-form role-play game.]

OOC: KESH doesn't scale very well, once you get bigger than about 155-200mms then you're just as well off using traditional KE as KESH
also, I'm interested in why you have lasers Ionize the air prior to firing the Railmortar


True, but there is an awful lot of KE differance between a 5" a 6" and an 8" gun. Also, studies showed that returns on conventional APDS for improved velocity versus improved penetration decreases after you reach a certain velocity.

A little "future weapons" concept dreamt up in the older days (1970s) was to make a "lightning tank" that could literally fire lightning bolts, and what they came up with was a laser that ionised the air so that it would conduct electricity and then send a massive charge down it, take 2 of these "lightning bolts" and give them opposing polarities and you have yourself a railgun that is limited only by the amount of power you give it.

One of the biggest problems with other designers was arcing, which would be reduced by the use of trailing a pair of wires to prevent the chances of the "barrel" from cutting itself off.

These wires would be repelled due to the 1st Right hand rule (thumb goes in direction of current, other fingers go in direction of magnetic field), but would be kept reasonable proximity by the taughtness of the wire (which would most likely melt by the time the shell went 2 miles).

End resualt is, it gives you a 2 mile long railgun barrel without the 2 mile long railgun barrel. (Targets within 2 miles could simply be electrocuted, targets such as sensitive electronics)

[OOC: The Aeson, can you please describe your definition of Post Modern Tech? After all, there is no unified definition for everything on NS, as it is a free-form role-play game.]

OOC: Personally, I RP at about 2015-2030.

OOC: Ah, makes sense ont he KESH side.
The Ionized air-railgun things has me worried though.
Check out this offsite thread (http://forums.keenspot.com/viewtopic.php?t=81645&highlight=laser+ionized+air+railgun) where I (Jameal) proposed the idea to some real-life electrical/mechanical engineers.
However, I'd let you get away with it as I'm partial to the idea, just be aware that its not necessarily earth conditions friendly.

OOC: Ah, makes sense ont he KESH side.
The Ionized air-railgun things has me worried though.
Check out this offsite thread (http://forums.keenspot.com/viewtopic.php?t=81645&highlight=laser+ionized+air+railgun) where I (Jameal) proposed the idea to some real-life electrical/mechanical engineers.
However, I'd let you get away with it as I'm partial to the idea, just be aware that its not necessarily earth conditions friendly.

Yeah, I don't really want to try selling a muzzleloading mortar with a 2 mile long conventional rail system (especialy when the shell weighs 5 tons if made of solid lead).

The biggest problem I ever found was that it may shove the ionised beams rather than the shell. (This may be solved entirely by slight PMT fudging of physics [or by reminding myself that railguns don't really have recoil in the convenional sense])

The below is more of a rant about how I developed the concept (and what it cost):

When I proposed it to the NS design forums, well, it didn't go over very well since they seem to enjoy their Super Heavy Battle Tanks too much [since to get their attention I stated it would be used to knock out SHBTs].

As a humurous point, I even went so far as to state that the beams could be widened to go "SHBT tipping", a new sport sort of like cow tipping.

They were not amused by the prospect of a weapon that would be able to flip over their super tanks like rag dolls and subsequently tore the idea down and then labeled a thread I made as "Trolling" (was a concept thread on Railguns that used ionised air).

Within a month of that issue I was suspended (most likely banned, though I never recieved any E-Mail stating this) for varous arguments on things such as the use of livestock in the military logistics, and counter insergency (they talked of nuking "stuff" [one talked of nuking themselves to stop uprisings and calling it "a test" and anoher planned to use it in a country they recently took over], you can guess what my reply to that was).

yea, I'm not a fan of any of the NS design forums (including the draft-room, though it is one of the better ones).

instead of using ionized air rails, or conventional rails. You could PMT-fudge and use rails made of some low-resistance/light weight wire held in place by pieze-electric vibrations. it would probably be cheaper than laser ionization of air too (and less complicated and more technically realistic)

yea, I'm not a fan of any of the NS design forums (including the draft-room, though it is one of the better ones).

instead of using ionized air rails, or conventional rails. You could PMT-fudge and use rails made of some low-resistance/light weight wire held in place by pieze-electric vibrations. it would probably be cheaper than laser ionization of air too (and less complicated and more technically realistic)

I never thought of that (though I guess I came close with letting the shell trail a pair of wires held in place by inertia and other properties of motion/matter).

Hmmm, I guess a joint project between Mono and PROHT in a PMT timeframe could develop such a weapon.
(PROHT supplies the base gun unit, power units, and shells while Mono figures out the wires)