NationStates Jolt Archive

These said nations all agreed (I wont name names) that apparently all anti matter weapons are useless against there shields because the shields are energy and anti matter only reacts with matter, what has gotten me really steamed is that this person also ignores E=MC^2 and for the most part says its been disprove, my question to the community, would a positron beam be viable against energy shields? Because according to him energy would just repel the beam, and furthermore he says my “weapons” just will not work, now the argument got pretty steamed, and I agree it was idiocy to argue with it, and I should have just ignored his nation, but I’m wondering if all of you out there feel the same way.

It boggles my mind to comprehend the warped physics of this, apparently it seems to me certain nations are ignoring physics rules they' don’t like and putting ones in that they do, a nation who uses temporal technology is saying I’m not violating physics, I adhere to physics, but seriously FT… its about rp not weapons, I’m sick of people being un reasonable just to win, I don’t care about physics, as long as you can't make a ship in to a flower pot with your tehcnobable tech; anti matter weapons should work , my advice to you is to simply focus on writing instead of trying to make ub3r tech.

I only make technology specs because they fit in to the background, I never spam them in threads, I only use them to make a rough estimate in power level, I never say ohh my ship pwns you because of so and so, I never do that any more at least, people get the wrong ideas, most of these persons don’t read my threads so you might ask why waste my time on them, simply put I just want to make sure they are not speaking for them majority. If I do come across as having an inferiority complex I do apologize, most of us are not physicist , we are rpers and writers, we don’t know OMG quantum de flauzoxhr cannon, we know good sentences good rp and deceptive writing , my word to new rpers for FT, don’t get discouraged don’t ever think your not good enough, because they don’t know your potential, you have to show them your there for the rp not the tech wank, this whole anti matter wont affect energy is hear by ignored by me on the fact of un-reasonability and just a bait machine, if these said nations post here they will try to discredit me as much as they can but I will stand by my point.

Personally this “essay/ debate question” was brought on by the conversation, but in truth this meant much more than that, I am tired of seeing new FT rpers be sucked in to the world of mass technology wanking and mass number and word wank. Its time to get away from that, I my self an no longer inclined or subscribed to those “miss guided aspirations” and I’m stating now that I will debate the tech points oocly to a point, but Will not continue past degradation to flame bait/ flameing. Far be it form me to train any one, but if any newbie needs help I will help them to the best of my ability.. writing wise.

In closing I would just like to say, that I did not mean to offend any one by this, simply to ward off any future roomers about what I said, and to post questions on the community, and to help others understand my point of view and my fears, this is not a rant so much as a plea for my side, thank you nation states players and good night.

Techwank?

Not to insult you mate, but you're the one using an integrated anti matter positorn beam against simple run of the mill Energy Shields......

Which one sounds more wanky?

Quickly! Fire the apathy cannon!

This is a game-story-RP-thingy. Physics don't really have a place here.

I bet these people also use plasma, so I don't see how you can really acknowledge their position. Seriously, use what you want to use, let it do the amount of damage you want it to do regardless of the technical impossibilities (ok, you have to draw the line if someone tried using run of the mill paper airplanes as space bombers or plastic straws as kinetic pentrators, but just generally speaking...). Seriously, the only people who give a fuck about technology and the technical aspects thereof are not writers(clarification: about 99% of them are not, there are some who do like technology and seak to understand it without techwanking all over threads).

That is your opinion, like I stated before, I did engage in tech discussion, but its not an important part of rp, the weapon is simple, I won’t spam ns with the specs, it just works, if some people won’t accept it or any other things that are not over the top then, good for them more power to them. But as far as I’m concerned they don’t exist in my universe.

And if energy shields wont react, then the beam will just go through them right? Seems to be the only flaw I can find, and it’s a doosey, at any rate my tech may “be wank” but I don’t expect players or persons to die with one shot or get pwnt, its all in writing, who cars about specs they are jus there as a reference, I don’t live by them any more, they are nice to look at, and just give a small reference to power but its not the bible.


ElectronX
You speak the truth, It just seems like most of the people I only get to talk to are way to much in to it, and want to impress, I used to be that way by no means am I innocent, but I have learned, a lot of nations including sith some what has helped me, but what I thirst for is good solid character, adventure, war, and political rp, not based on ooc arguments or biased or tech wank.

Bump for debate

Really, there should not be a debate. Anyone who tries to win a battle soley on technological grounds is not a writer, they are not RPers (this assumes the story does not call for it, say a general and spontaneous battle in which players from many different backgrounds get involved in). The conclusion of RPs not dictated ahead of time via OOC discussion should be based on writing ability, tactics, and THEN technology, but only to the extent that people need to know what the eff their technology does.

Really, it matters not if your technology kicksass or if your tactical ability rivals napolean, because if your writing sucks ass and no one likes to read your writing, then why should you win? Now at the same time a competent writer who RPs his opponent into a perfect, slaughter inducing trap should win; afterall if you're a good writer but dumb as a brick you can't win anything either, but this still relies on the opponent being COMPETENT in writing.

As I said previously, technology should dictate NOTHING, save for when I need to know what the fuck an oscillating charged antimatter 450pW laser guided shield system does, so I can react, and so my characters can react appropriately.

I'm with ElectronX, really. Which, actually, is the reason most of my weaponry (save one or two toys) are pretty much run-of-the-mill. Saves on silly arguments like this about what should do what how and to whom. Severely complicated weaponry only makes this problem worse.

Was this person SeaQuest, by any chance?

I've completely torn myself from the FT level of NS because of these problems. People confusing me with the specifications and possible firing power of turbolasers, light travel, etc. I really don't care, so I quit.

This whole debate seems pretty pointless to me. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get to work on my all-matter-materializer.

This is why I use things like rail guns and missiles mostly. Everyone knows how they work, although some people don't seem to understand what plasma is... I don't even use shields, so there's no arguments about that.

I've seen people using things like "gravitron beams", and I've never questioned whether they would work in RL; If someone says they work, then you should just RP it instead of arguing about it.

I bet these people also use plasma, so I don't see how you can really acknowledge their position. Seriously, use what you want to use, let it do the amount of damage you want it to do regardless of the technical impossibilities (ok, you have to draw the line if someone tried using run of the mill paper airplanes as space bombers or plastic straws as kinetic pentrators, but just generally speaking...). Seriously, the only people who give a fuck about technology and the technical aspects thereof are not writers(clarification: about 99% of them are not, there are some who do like technology and seak to understand it without techwanking all over threads).


With enough Delta-Vee (Velocity to the uninitiated, speed to the unfortunate)
anything can be a Kinetic pentrator. At appreciable fractions of C (Again, The speed of light to the uninitiated, the universal speed limit to the unfortunate)
it ceases to matter what its made of, or even how much it masses.

Anyway, an energy shield would provide an equal defense against Anti-Matter and Normal Matter.
If (As it seems to me they are) They're claiming that their shields are invulnerable to anti-matter because their shields don't interact with ANti-matter (which is entirely possible) Thn they are entirely correct. However, they have a problem, because their shields might not interact with Anti-Matter (or vice versa, whatever) but the matter in their spaceships certainly does, and when ever something meets somthing else and they don't interact; They don't stop, they aren't magically disipated, they don't even recognize that something has happened. So if their shields aren't interacting with your Anti-Matter, then their ships are only so much sub-atomic dust.
This has been another installment of "Take it from me, I'm a real life Physicist."
Thank you for listening, Mondoth Out.

Was this person SeaQuest, by any chance?
I doubt it.

@ElectronX: I'm going to have to agree with you on this. NS is 99% RP and 1% tech, IMHO.

@TFU: Welcome to FT. A lot of people use canon tech from their preferred universe. Its fanboys of the other universes (like some of NS's resident SW fans) that put down other people's canon tech just because its not from their preferred universe. I cite, for example, The Alien Covenant's God-wanking Halo universe Covenant style tech into invincibility and saying that my ST MU based nation stood no chance to his smaller nation (he had around 5 million while I was 1+ billion).

Jarvon, no, we wont get into what happened with TAC here. Because honestly, you were both tech wanking, but him in response to you ignoring every bit of damaging based on the fact plasma is not used in your reality. That is tech wanking, and the kind of shit I was speaking out against. I hope you learned that by now.

Jarvon, no, we wont get into what happened with TAC here. Because honestly, you were both tech wanking, but him in response to you ignoring every bit of damaging based on the fact plasma is not used in your reality. That is tech wanking, and the kind of shit I was speaking out against. I hope you learned that by now.
Dude, where you not paying attention or just so blind you missed my ship being basted into two halves along the spinal axis prior to it being retconned do to TAC's crap?

Dude, where you not paying attention or just so blind you missed my ship being basted into two halves along the spinal axis prior to it being retconned do to TAC's crap?
One ship being snapped in twain while at the same time degrading every shot fired at you from some of the most powerful ships in the Halo universe.

One ship being snapped in twain while at the same time degrading every shot fired at you from some of the most powerful ships in the Halo universe.

Seriously, you think I would just send my weakest ships through the Portal? No, I sent up-to-date new ships through utilizing everything 27th century era ST MU based tech with the stated Borg enhancements can offer.

I RPed the same way with Whyatica's pirate Sharlins, and things went just fine.

Seriously, you think I would just send my weakest ships through the Portal? No, I sent up-to-date new ships through utilizing everything 27th century era ST MU based tech can offer.
So? He sent his best stuff, which as RPed are vastly superior on a one on one basis to other ships of the same class from MANY other nations. Unless you RP a very small number of heavy duty ships, then you should have taken more damage than you did instead of working off technology as a basis to go "hah u du n0 dmg!"

So? He sent his best stuff, which as RPed are vastly superior on a one on one basis to other ships of the same class from MANY other nations. Unless you RP a very small number of heavy duty ships, then you should have taken more damage than you did instead of working off technology as a basis to go "hah u du n0 dmg!"

I stated he was doing damage TO THE SHIELDS! A ST ship is NOT an ST ship without shields. Mine just happened to be 27th century Borg enhanced versions with all the canon renfinements plus extras due to the extra time for R&D.

I RPed the same way in regards to Whyatica's pirate Sharlins, and he didn't God-wank his ships into invincibility and God-wank my ships into inferiority like TAC did.

I stated he was doing damage TO THE SHIELDS! A ST ship is NOT an ST ship without shields. Mine just happened to be 27th century Borg enhanced versions with all the canon renfinements plus extras due to the extra time for R&D.

Shields are shields. They go down like mine, Godulars, or anyone elses so the point is almost moot. What you did repeatedly was suggest through your writing that planet slagging levels of destruction could easily (and as read probably infinitely) be deflected with shields. Then

I RPed the same way in regards to Whyatica's pirate Sharlins, and he didn't God-wank his ships into invincibility and God-wank my ships into inferiority like TAC did.
Because of the events were pre-arranged via OOC discussion. However, TAC was a spontaneous event, and in that case you acted poorly. Never in his first post(s) did I read anything to suggest that he wanted to win or that your ships all would have died. It was only after you waved away physics, techwanked into the great beyond and implied through your writing that his weapons would do almost nill to your shields did he start to wank back.

You acted poorly in that thread, and most of it stems from your love of technology.

These said nations all agreed (I wont name names) that apparently all anti matter weapons are useless against there shields because the shields are energy and anti matter only reacts with matter, what has gotten me really steamed is that this person also ignores E=MC^2 and for the most part says its been disprove, my question to the community, would a positron beam be viable against energy shields? Because according to him energy would just repel the beam, and furthermore he says my “weapons” just will not work, now the argument got pretty steamed, and I agree it was idiocy to argue with it, and I should have just ignored his nation, but I’m wondering if all of you out there feel the same way.
They're right, to an extent. A photon is its own antiparticle, and an electromagnetic field would still be effective against anti-particles with charge. Anti-matter would be no more effective against their shields than normal matter, although that isn't to say that they would be any less effective, and once they get through the shields they would cause far more damage to the ship than normal matter.

Note: This is from a MT player. I have no vested interests in the outcome of this argument.

I've always thought that energy shields would be effective against anti-matter. However energy is the ONLY thing that could contain anti-matter. And if an energy shield is 90% effective against an anti-matter weapon, the remaining 10% that got through would be devastating.

Since the dawn of time, this argument has been raging. It made little sense then, and even less sense now. In the world of reality, technology is but a means to an end, utilised as a tool for a greater goal. In roleplay this is no different; technology is but a plot device, merely used as a tool to facilitate the advancement of a plot. Those people who focus too closely on it, clearly have no plot. I have little interest in those people.

We all do things which are utterly senseless and completely impossible. Trying to argue which senseless and impossible device is better than the other, tickles my ribs.

Big weapons cause big bangs. Small weapons cause small bangs. This is the simple agreement we must all subscribe to, in order for our universe to work.

I see, I could accept that argument Praetonia but they said they “aren’t using” photon shields or particle shields, just energy shields, I guess the point is moot, since most of ns just would laugh at that, I could say that this “beam” would have a little more punch than a particle cannon against “energy” shields, and leave it at that as a compromise to nations who wont accept it. As for the rest of the debate you may continue how you wish, I may chime in for one or 2 comments. Further more I don’t care if this nation has ub3re probity temporal quantum tech… if you cant write well enough to not have to use your tech or at least write with not throwing your tech in my face then I wont accept most of it, simple as that.

I would also have to agree with Liberated Vortigaunts on his point , it is a plot device, and a back drop just to measure things by, but it isn’t holy scripture .

One problem is that "energy shields" is vague. What kind of energy? The right kind of "energy shields" should be as effective against anti-matter as regular matter. Of course, we're getting into tech-wankage, since none of us have any real idea what effect our technobabble weapons would have against the other guys technobabble defences. I can see the temptation to argue, especially for something like anti-matter which we might know a little about from high school science classes. But, ultimately, I agree that the plot is more important than the tech, most of which came out of someone's rear end anyway.

they said they “aren’t using” photon shields or particle shields, just energy shields, I guess the point is moot, since most of ns just would laugh at that, I could say that this “beam” would have a little more punch than a particle cannon against “energy” shields

"Energy" shields is a bit of nonsense. By that, I assume they mean that the shield in question functions like a pressor beam - a tractor beam set to 'blow' - and that because it exerts a force against matter without coming into contact with it, the anti-matter in your beam will not react with anything more concrete than the surrounding space (which, as you know, is pretty damn diffuse) and so, the beam will do vastly less damage.

You are also correct of course, there would be a recoil on the shield - momentum must be conserved, and so the ship projecting the 'shield' will be damaged, as if by a normal particle beam. Chances are, though, that the particle beam's effects would be negligable compared to the normal beams.

I suggest a solution for you. If your ships carry normal particle beams, it shouldn't be all that hard (in comparison with building an FTL space ship in the first place, anyway) to, after your first encounter, set them up to cross over in close proximity to the enemy ship. In essence, you shoot one beam, and then shoot the other at the beam you shot. This will cause a reaction, which, if you make the beams cross over near the enemy ship, will be quite dangerous - though the range would likely be shorter (depending on the precision of your aim) and the effective yeild considerably less than normal. In all, a pressor-shield shouldn't make your weapons that much less effective, except on the first encounter, which is nice and dramatic. Claiming immunity for competative benefit based on technology is poor form, but you can have fun with the idea having your characters come up with a solution, anyway. Remember Deep Space Nine's Breen energy dampener?

Either that, or get some new weapons. I suggest photon torpedos. ;)

First its not anti-matter weapons, its based on matter/anti-matter reaction.

matter/anti-matter weapons make a big boom

big boom hurts shields

the end

I see, I could accept that argument Praetonia but they said they “aren’t using” photon shields or particle shields, just energy shields,
What kind of energy? If it is neither electromagnetic nor light based... then what? It could be gravity-based, presumably, as this is FT, but gravity is a very weak force anyway. You can't just have "energy" as an abstract concept defending your ship in no specific form. Regardless of what type of energy is used, anti-matter will still be just as effective as normal matter, and will still be more effective when it hits the ship.

If you're talking about a matter/anti-matter reaction rather than a particle beam then, as Phoenix Milita says, the point is moot.

I stated he was doing damage TO THE SHIELDS! A ST ship is NOT an ST ship without shields. Mine just happened to be 27th century Borg enhanced versions with all the canon renfinements plus extras due to the extra time for R&D.

I RPed the same way in regards to Whyatica's pirate Sharlins, and he didn't God-wank his ships into invincibility and God-wank my ships into inferiority like TAC did.

The trio of plasma beams struck the shields of the lead Enterprise class heavy cruiser in a nova of colors. At the instant of contact, the other ships scattered and began darting about at full combat speeds of around 0.998c using their hyper-impulse engines. Scintillating beams of death rained at the Covenant ships from every direction as the ships fired their phasers. Each beam of the arrays carrying several thousand terawatts of power each. Torpedo ammo was being conserved, for now.

I see no damage stated.

As for the enemy's own torpedo shots at the lead Enterprise's naccelles were mostly counted by precision phaser fire as the multi-terrawatt beams lanced out. The few that managed to get through splattered harmlessly against the shields of the ship. Rated to be able to stand weapons much more powerful than the pathetic, low powered plasma weapons and torpedoes of the enemy, the drop in shield strength was fractional, at best.

Damage is minimal. Interesting statement. What exactly made you believe the weapons were weak, other than your "plasma is weak in my canon" theory?

The fire from the remaining two Covenant ships was withering, but still the Imperial shields held. They had been able to withstand Borg attacks during the war back in the mid-25th century around a hundred years prior, and were now even more enhanced with simple research and development as well as Borg tech. With the Ascendant Justice nothing more than scrap metal, the tractors that had been assigned to her were redirected to the last two Covenant ships to reinforce those already locked onto them.

STILL no major damage. And previously in the post my Flagship was godmodded into destruction because you were unwilling to realize the limitations of your technology when interfacing with a non-dimensional opponent. When a slipspace drive is activated, it creates a tear in space. When the tear closed around Ascendant Justice, your tractor beams would have lost their lock. At that point FTL could occur safely, without the risk of dealing with trekwank bastardized Borg/Federation hybrid idiocy.

TFU, you use temporal tech. You're not someone who should be complaining about wank.

Now there you make the mistake of thinking everyone who uses Temporal Tech is a wanker; thats not a very open opinion for a freeform game where each is entitled to his own :)

Now there you make the mistake of thinking everyone who uses Temporal Tech is a wanker; thats not a very open opinion for a freeform game where each is entitled to his own :)

If someone uses generic "temporal weapons" and "temporal shields", they're invariably doing it to wank. I havn't seen anything that would make me think the contrary.

Now there you make the mistake of thinking everyone who uses Temporal Tech is a wanker; thats not a very open opinion for a freeform game where each is entitled to his own :)

I'll say MOST are. And while each may be entitled to their own, let there at least be some degree of reason to it.

I dont use it like i have it pwnt you though, I hardly even use it in wars any more.. its not the ulimate weapon. writing is ..

/ And about that trek tech stuff, personally its viewed as wanky and weak because of what people looked at on TV, and players who use it feel the need to “wank” I used to use it a lot … but it got the point it isn’t worth wanking and arguing for this so I changed.. Mean while If you write it well enough people wont care about what kind of tech, its up to both sides to be reasonable and not to wank, work it out oocly, if the other side says ohh trek tech sucks blah blah blah, then don’t waste your time, this goes vice versa as well.

Try to be civil both icly and oocly at least on the forums and don’t let threads go in to ignore fest or flame fest .. that is not good for your record or for your writing skills.

Jesus, people, do we have to be using physics and energy valence and all sorts of nutz for a simple RP? Just look into the post's context around the weapon to determine damage ratios, and go from there, we don't need to be comparing "energy output and reactivity" and everything. Supposed to be FUN, not some science convention for the smartest nuts in the world. let it flow.

Heed the words of the Amazonian, for they ring the bells of wisdom.

To many people on nation states think tech "embourgeoisement" and will make them better than people aorund them, its rediclous.

[ooc: for now I simply TAG this for great justice, since I have no time to post something decent, will do so later. *Hates crappy computers which can't subscribe*]

To many people on nation states think tech "embourgeoisement" and will make them better than people aorund them, its rediclous.

:coughincludingyoucough:

Rob's actually been focussing alot more on story and RP recently. Theres no need to be petty.

To many people on nation states think tech "embourgeoisement" and will make them better than people aorund them, its rediclous.

Embourgeoisement? Is that even a WORD(according to the only french speaker I know, the correct answer is "Hell no.")? Do you know what Bourgeoise MEANS? You have gotten infinitely better, but you sling around terms for qhich you have no real knowledge of definition. Referring to me as a Deus Ex Machina, or anything as bourgeoise is rather foolish. The terms simply do not apply in the context you're using them, and that statement has absolutely no meaning with the non-word embourgeoisement in it. Use words for which you know the definition, so that we can understand your sentences outside of RP as well as you write now.

Snip

SeaQuest, Jarvon, whatever you want to call yourself, you're in no position to judge other players at all. You godmod, wank, and generally put down other's technology on a near-regular basis, then accuse others of the same while maintaining your innocence.

TAC, best to ignore him like most of us have already.

MM let us not bring ooc squabbles to nation states, and it is indeed a word, its an old word, look it up on wikipidea , I’m using it as saying that bourgeoisie means that you “pwnt more” its pretty ridiculous, saying that some ones better because of tech.

Frankly our ooc msn argument has nothing to do with this what so ever, so keep it out of the thread please, mean while I reemphasize who ever wont be reasonable and refuses to read in the post, should be ignored.

Bump

SeaQuest, Jarvon, whatever you want to call yourself, you're in no position to judge other players at all. You godmod, wank, and generally put down other's technology on a near-regular basis, then accuse others of the same while maintaining your innocence.

TAC, best to ignore him like most of us have already.

Oh, look whose talking!

I've never GMed EVER on my time here posting on Jolt. Nor have I EVER wanked. And I don't put down other's tech. With TAC (whom I've blanket ignored for his God-wankery), I was posting IC'ly. Who doesn't use IC embellishments to IC'ly 'say' their tech is better?

And I have documentable proof of TAC putting down my tech on Jolt. So don't give me any bull about accusing without proof.

Now, you can tell TAC that his BS post at the bottom of the page is not only being ignored, but its completely off the mark. If arrogant SOB's like him can't bother to do the research himself and denies that of others, God-wanks his stuff to invincibility, God-wanks other's stuff to inferiority (like that thing with the tractor beams, he was warned. He didn't listen to WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF HE WENT FTL, and went FTL, so his ship was destroyed. I told him the only way to get free, but he wouldn't listen. If he wanted that ship destroyed so bad like that, then I don't see what he's bitching and moaning about), insults other people and their tech, and won't pull his head out of his ass long enough to apologize for his crap.

Now, Mr. "GMed in the 'Half A Million Light-Years' thread", if its people like your wanking self who've ignored me, then all the better. That means I'll be able to RP with people who actually care about the story than wanking to win like you and TAC.

Hey… hey … listen up stop with the flame bait, let’s be civil about this stuff ok? There’s no need to fly off the handle over this, Jarvon you simply ignore him or her and leave it at that, or try to work it out oocly , witch I’m sure you have tired to do and it has bared no results according to your side of the story, but that’s only one side, we have to look at both sides of the story here, he or she may have though you where unreasonable with your technology and vice versa, we cant discount that.

Hey… hey … listen up stop with the flame bait, let’s be civil about this stuff ok? There’s no need to fly off the handle over this, Jarvon you simply ignore him or her and leave it at that, or try to work it out oocly , witch I’m sure you have tired to do and it has bared no results according to your side of the story, but that’s only one side, we have to look at both sides of the story here, he or she may have though you where unreasonable with your technology and vice versa, we cant discount that.

I've been trying to be civil with people like them, but I can only take so much. Its been almost a year that I've been on NS and I've had to put up with *censored* like that the entire time from people like them. After all, just like everyone else here, I'm only human and not some emotionless robot.

And sorry about kind of hijacking your thread.

He was in fact QUITE unreasonable. According to many I know his entire argument for discounting my weapons effects seems to be "plasma is weak in trek." Period. As I stated previously, Covenant regularly glass entire planets with those weapons. Are his ships more powerful than weapons that can reduce a planet to a glowing mass of semi-molten stone?

If this is the way you've acted for an entire year, and others have been telling you these things for a year, and you still act like this, why does ANYONE still deal with you? I think that I must not have lost anything by that ignore. Perhaps I should wear it as a badge of honor. In fact, I believe I'll do just that, and I think it would be nice if the rest of those so honored would join me. Maybe we can see who all is a decent RPer this way... At least to a degree. If this person has ignored you, I'm almost sure you're worth RPing with.

Oh, look whose talking!

In this case Jarvon/SQ... you.

I've never GMed EVER on my time here posting on Jolt. Nor have I EVER wanked. And I don't put down other's tech. With TAC (whom I've blanket ignored for his God-wankery), I was posting IC'ly. Who doesn't use IC embellishments to IC'ly 'say' their tech is better?

The sheer number of outright lies in this one just makes it utterly giggletastic! You've done it OOC far more than you've claimed to do it IC. You have Godmoded plenty. You have Wanked. You have put down others' tech. You are dead certain that Star Trek tech is the end-all-be-all of technology and apparently no amount of reasoning can ever tell you otherwise.

And I have documentable proof of TAC putting down my tech on Jolt. So don't give me any bull about accusing without proof.

And there's far more documented evidence of you godmoding, even in the thread you claim to cite.

Now, you can tell TAC that his BS post at the bottom of the page is not only being ignored, but its completely off the mark. If arrogant SOB's like him can't bother to do the research himself and denies that of others, God-wanks his stuff to invincibility, God-wanks other's stuff to inferiority (like that thing with the tractor beams, he was warned. He didn't listen to WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF HE WENT FTL, and went FTL, so his ship was destroyed. I told him the only way to get free, but he wouldn't listen. If he wanted that ship destroyed so bad like that, then I don't see what he's bitching and moaning about), insults other people and their tech, and won't pull his head out of his ass long enough to apologize for his crap.

We're still waiting for the same from you, Mister "I am never wrong ever period dammit and several hundred people telling me otherwise are just jealous of my OBVIOUS superiority so neener neener." You have done absolutely everything you accuse TAC/MM of yet seem utterly blind to your own actions and indeed your own blatant incompetence.

Now, Mr. "GMed in the 'Half A Million Light-Years' thread", if its people like your wanking self who've ignored me, then all the better. That means I'll be able to RP with people who actually care about the story than wanking to win like you and TAC.

Whereupon you godmod and wank, like you did with TFU, mister "You didn't say which moon so I get to choose yippee!"

I'm sick and tired of being the one everyone LOVES to insult and pick-on. Thus, the next person to do it *Glares at TAC, Velkya, and Godular* will recieve a blanket ignore from me.

! ** Whyatica picks on Jarvon

You can't threaten to ignore anyone who has an issue with you and expect to have many friends in the NS world.

! ** Whyatica picks on Jarvon

I think he already put me on OMGPERMANENTIGNORELISTLOL!!!, so I think picking on him seems like it's not hurting me. I know he said he had me blanket ignored earlier.

SeaQuest, I tried to help you early on. I told you not to spam so much (people back then wanted to kill you because you were flooding I.I.). I told you not to be everything at once (people then wanted to kill you because you were bastardizing techs). Each time you only caved in the most grudging manners. It got tiring trying to set you on a path that kept people from coming up to me on MSN and saying they wanted to destroy you. I DEFENDED you back then. I really did.

You never listen though. You always think you're right, even when MANY others-- not just me, not just Namtar, not just Miehm or Icecrown or No Endorse or half the bloody GFFA-- tell you that you're wrong... multiple times.

We WERE nice to you. At first. Telling you never worked. We told you that you were wrong, how you were wrong, and what you needed to do to fix it. You responded with 24 point fontsize and yellow fontcolor that you're never wrong. But you were. On many occasions and on many levels, yes you were.

The TSL diplomatic function. The Huntarian rebellion. The attack on Belle Terre. In every single one of these things you were wrong. The first for DARING to tell people what to do outside of your own country and very nearly starting a war over it. The second for apparently trying to defeat the enemy via boredom (progress report! We've moved another two inches into the system, sir! Excellent!). And the third for that OH-SO-HAPPY moon that you absolutely couldn't stand to see destroyed and were even willing to make deals with the Galactic Empire to preserve because even your own allies couldn't stand to have that chunk of wacky rock floating about anymore.

Or how about the rift thread, where you refused to take damage from TAC's plasma weapons because in your self-declared-expert's opinion plasma weaponry sucked according to Star Trek.

Star Trek ain't the only universe on NS, yo.

You were wrong about the Quasar Olivium stuff too. And we proved it. You still didn't accept it. You didn't accept getting kicked out of the Cluster, even after Waterhelper confirmed that Balrogga and Tannelorn had the vested power to boot you. No no no, it needed to be Waterhelper himself that gave the EXACT eviction order.

You have godmoded. You have wanked. And somehow you still retain the gall to accuse everybody ELSE of doing it. You. Are. Wrong.

If you would only understand the point, rather than nitpicking this post to try and refute me piece by piece as you constantly attempt but never succeed, perhaps you would understand that behind my diatribe there's still a part of me that still hopes that you'll listen and learn from what I'm trying to say.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but talking softly never worked.

ok to be honest, from the "tech wank" perspective..a shield would not be so useful against anti matter. Lets end the argument. Let Antimatter be the big bad boom it should be..because in reality...it would be very unwise to shield a ship against AM.

Why you may ask? Because if it uses positrons for instance, it attacks the electrons, transforming them in to tiny gamma ray bursts. Essentially your shield would dissolve in a massive gamma radiation fireball, engulfing your ship in the same force released by a black holes gamma ray blast, ground zero of a powerful nuke, or a supernova..against your hull and directed towards it.

So lets just go with . AM missiles are scary missiles. And not wank it one way or another.

Oh and for the record, gravity is also space time compression. Temporal weapons and effects are a side effect of gravity systems. Meaning that temporal weapons would have toget through your impellor first, and if you did use grav shields like i do, they WOULDNT WORK. They would just work like any other weapon.

ok to be honest, from the "tech wank" perspective..a shield would not be so useful against anti matter.

Depends on the type of shield. Lets look at a beam of positrons. An EM shield would deflect the charge particles, a cold plasma shield would annhilate the positrons away from your hull for less damage, a space opera style immaterial shield that stops particles would be effected only from the kinetic energy of the beam, a shield which stops EM radiation would allow a positron beam to pass right through.

Why you may ask? Because if it uses positrons for instance, it attacks the electrons, transforming them in to tiny gamma ray bursts. Essentially your shield would dissolve in a massive gamma radiation fireball, engulfing your ship in the same force released by a black holes gamma ray blast, ground zero of a powerful nuke, or a supernova..against your hull and directed towards it.

That's correct if it's a powerfull beam interacting with a cold plasma shield. An immaterial shield such as the ones often used in FT would simply take the kinetic energy damage.

So lets just go with . AM missiles are scary missiles. And not wank it one way or another.

A 30 megaton AM warhead is just as powerfull as a 30 megaton fission warhead or fusion warhead. Just because its anti-matter doesn't automatically make a missile far more dangerous. True for equal mass an AM warhead will be more powerfull than fusion and fusion more powerfull than fission, but that does not mean we ignore relative power.

A hypothetical ship that can survive a 30 megaton fusion bomb going off 10 meters from the hull can survive a 30 megaton AM warhead going off 10 meters from the hull too.

Technically yes. However compared to a standard fission bomb or nuke, AM is much less stable. Its like the nitro glycerin of large scale explosives. Sure you could say that it is indeed the same, but its not. Because the truth is using any form of antimatter is offset by the sheer energy it can produce.

Think of it this way. A ship with a fusion powerplant will likely not simply explode due to severe power loss or damage. It will simply stop working. However a hit to the munitions room on a ship carrying AM warheads, or a hit that causes the AM powerplant to lose shielding will utterly annhilate the ship. Trust me AM is indeed MUCH more powerful then most explosives. However the fact is that its also like riding a firecracker.

Which is why i use AM missiles and not AM powerplants, i used to but we switched in favour of Fusion with crystal power capacitors and the like. ALOT of power with much less risk.

And traditional FT "shields" as described would most definetly be affected in the terror way by AM. As they tend to be walls of "force" and energy.

Now to make it simple AM is incredibly powerful. More powerful then nukes, more powerful then "singularity" weapons and what not. Why? Because they are quite possibly the most unstable explosive/powerplant in existence. AM is dangerous to have aboard ship. In fact my fighters have the option of taking nukes or AM, as AM means that any hits that penetrate the hard points and cause breeches in the missiles, likely will spell the end of the morgenraete.

We use a Graser warhead and an AM warhead missile for AS duties. The AM is what would be used against larger cap ships, the graser rounds against escorts and light cap ships like destroyers and light/strike cruisers.

So if we want a comprehensive weapons guide and what to do for future reference, listen up.

Nukes would be the lowest end with fusion. However they are safer then any of the other forms of missiles next to the advanced version of the same weapons.
Graser/Xaser warheads/Other assorted energy warheads ie plasma.
These are safe like the nukes/fusion however they do their damage by creating a massive one shot AS beam weapon, or a directed heat style hit.more efficient for AS but harder to make.
Singularity weapons. These are dangerous but against a ship that is not shielded with grav shields or a high powered gravitic impellor for propulsion would be not only harmed by the gamma expulsion, but by the immense tidal stresses. However these are more dangerous then the earlier weapons, a trade off for more power. IF they go off in your ship there would be serious death and destruction. However they are not good AOE weapons against grav shielded ships.
AM warheads: Ridiculously powerful per pound, most AM missiles would actually be much smaller then equivalent nukes, those that are the same size are the real scary ones. [We use a 1 MT nuke or a 1 MT AM warhead for fighter AS] They are mean and nasty however, without proper space and design allocated to safety systems, they leave your ship a ticking time bomb. Fighter launch AM missiles that are considerably more powerful then standard nukes make them much more vulnerable to enemy fire.

Rather then tech wank out everything why not look at it in a certain light. The term anti matter evokes a certain raw image of destruction, as does singularity. The others do as well but nothing quite like those two examples of weaponry. One functions like any other nuclear weapon only more powerful. The other is esoteric in its functions. But the end result is still the same. AM is nasty stuff, to both you and the enemy. If you choose to use AM you better be prepared to suffer the consequences, or build in redundancies to prevent that. The same goes for Singularity weapons.

Now to wonder, what do people think of this idea? This is a very good way to end the bickering, and hopefully foster RP in all the singularity/AM weapon users as they desperately attempt to curtail their phenomenal casuality rates.
All the while giving nuke/fusion/plasma/exotic energy weapon users know that they have a strong, safe weapon. Sure the boom may not be as big. But the same goes for inside the weapon bay that just got breeched by a glancing Xaser shot.

Now you ask why the big lecture on it. Its because the way i see it, the different forms of weaponry and energy all have different effects. Sure one weapon may be stronger..but its offset by something. Nukes can be stored so safely it isnt funny. AM and singularities cannot. The closest way we have found to do it is this.
1 DEM jump generator in the engine room, we lose containment it fires sending the powerplant and some of the engine room in to the Aether. Back up fusion takes over.
2 Missiles: The missiles warhead is an Antimatter generator. There is no antimatter in the ship until the weapon is armed in its launch tube. There is no such system for the fighter launch versions. To remain as small and numerous as they are, not only is reaction mass sacrificed, but so is the ability to make a safe AM missile for fighters.

And these AM missiles for fighters need to be stored on ship..and they are still a real danger to my ships if they are issued.

If you want to say that one thing is more or less powerful, you have to take a look at pro's and cons.

If you dont want to acknowledge the different effects then your 30MT nuke and AM warheads would be exactly the same. Dont expect your "safe" antimatter to be any more powerful. Because thats not the point of Antimatter or a singularity weapon.

The point Xess tried to make is the power of the bomb is measured in the explosive yeild. A 30 MT nuke will have the same explosive power that a 30 MT A-M bomb. They both do the same damage as a 30 MT explosion. The A-M Bomb would carry a lot less "explosives" due to the increased power of the A-M over the nuclear reaction.

Still, the point in RPing is to stay away from the curse of stats and just use the comparisons of small, medium, and large when describing your weapons. Also every ship will not have nothing but "Large" bombs on it.

There must be some sort of balance.

Technically yes. However compared to a standard fission bomb or nuke, AM is much less stable. Its like the nitro glycerin of large scale explosives. Sure you could say that it is indeed the same, but its not. Because the truth is using any form of antimatter is offset by the sheer energy it can produce.

Look at it this way, an AM warhead is just as dangerous to an enemy ship as a fusion warhead with the same yield. The AM warhead is more dangerous to your ship because of its instability, but the ship you're shooting it at doesn't care about how the energy is produced or stored, just how much of it there is.

Think of it this way. A ship with a fusion powerplant will likely not simply explode due to severe power loss or damage. It will simply stop working.

Thanks for stating the obvious.

However a hit to the munitions room on a ship carrying AM warheads, or a hit that causes the AM powerplant to lose shielding will utterly annhilate the ship.

Again, duh.

Trust me AM is indeed MUCH more powerful then most explosives.

Why are you telling me things I already said in my post?


And traditional FT "shields" as described would most definetly be affected in the terror way by AM. As they tend to be walls of "force" and energy.

The terror way?

Graser/Xaser warheads/Other assorted energy warheads ie plasma.

Yes, bomb pumped lasers are nice. But plasma isn't energy and it's also a horrible space weapon, they're about as practical as a hot steam gun on Earth.

Singularity weapons. These are dangerous but against a ship that is not shielded with grav shields or a high powered gravitic impellor for propulsion would be not only harmed by the gamma expulsion, but by the immense tidal stresses.

Singularity weapons are so much BS it's not funny. If you have enough energy to make a singularity massive enough to cause large tidal stresses on an enemy ship you're better off just putting it into giant laser or bomb. You'd get more bang for you buck that way.

Oh, and Weberverse fiction isn't the only way to go you know.

AM warheads: Ridiculously powerful per pound, most AM missiles would actually be much smaller then equivalent nukes,

Which I said in my previous post.

Rather then tech wank out everything why not look at it in a certain light. The term anti matter evokes a certain raw image of destruction, as does singularity.

Sure, for uninformed plebes. Those of us with enough intellegence realize that what matters is the energy, not how it's produced.

Now you ask why the big lecture on it. Its because the way i see it, the different forms of weaponry and energy all have different effects.

Both nukes and AM weapons produce gamma rays. A graser is more powerfull than a laser because it has more energy, not because it has a different name.

If you dont want to acknowledge the different effects then your 30MT nuke and AM warheads would be exactly the same.

Both produce a massive gamma ray explosion equivalent to 30 megatons, they will have the same effect.

A rock carrying 30 megatons of energy will react differently, as will a 30 megaton graser.

When dealing the damage by the same mechanism what matters is the energy not how you produced it.

A five megaton AM produced gamma ray burst will do less damage than a the 30 megaton gamma ray burst produced by the fusion weapon. The forty terajoule graser will do less damage than the 500 terajoule laser. An 120mm APFSDS round will do less damage than a ping-pong ball travelling at 600 km/s.

I think he already put me on OMGPERMANENTIGNORELISTLOL!!!, so I think picking on him seems like it's not hurting me. I know he said he had me blanket ignored earlier.

Knock it off or I'll call the mods to solve this problem, there’s no need to resort to childish flame baiting, the rest I would like you guys to keep it civil, I’m not a mod but I can get them in to this quickly.

I haven't read this whole thread, and this is probably irrelevant by now (I apologize if it is) but yes, a positron beam would work against an energy shield because the shield, seeing as it is made of energy, is porbably mainly composed of electrons, and electrons and positrons annihilate at contact with eachother. Depending on how many positrons in the beam and how many electrons in the shield, it would either make a large explosion of radiation, or a large explosion of radiation and a hole in the shield. also, antimatter would work against an energy shield, assuming the antimatter does contain anti-electrons (positrons). It would work just as a positron beam would, but I think the the rest of the antimatter would either fall through, or simply detonate right in the air (if it was unshielded from the air [matter] around it). I'm not a physicist, I'm just a wannabe-nerd.

I haven't read this whole thread,

Not something you should do.

EDIT: As in you should not post without reading the thread.

and this is probably irrelevant by now (I apologize if it is) but yes, a positron beam would work against an energy shield because the shield, seeing as it is made of energy, is porbably mainly composed of electrons, and electrons and positrons annihilate at contact with eachother. Depending on how many positrons in the beam and how many electrons in the shield, it would either make a large explosion of radiation, or a large explosion of radiation and a hole in the shield. also, antimatter would work against an energy shield, assuming the antimatter does contain anti-electrons (positrons). It would work just as a positron beam would, but I think the the rest of the antimatter would either fall through, or simply detonate right in the air (if it was unshielded from the air [matter] around it). I'm not a physicist, I'm just a wannabe-nerd.

I already wrote,

Depends on the type of shield. Lets look at a beam of positrons. An EM shield would deflect the charge particles, a cold plasma shield would annhilate the positrons away from your hull for less damage, a space opera style immaterial shield that stops particles would be effected only from the kinetic energy of the beam, a shield which stops EM radiation would allow a positron beam to pass right through.

Well i dont want to argue this too much anymore but yes very true a smaller weapon wont hit as hard as a larger one no matter what. However in the case of grasers and AM if you choose to use Gigaton level yields, as in my grasers for instance..its going to be powerful. Same idea as anti matter. However remember, AM truly IS more powerful. However it can do the same thing to your ship. Unless your using tiny yields. Remember my standard shipkiller yield is in the gigaton range on AS cap ship sized missiles. Then again i am from Sol and we use pettajoule range spinals and heavy turrets, with very large missiles.

And Singularity weapons, i was reffering to missiles.

Anyway as i said <.<. Things like Grasers and AM and singularities are more powerful. But when you consider you have to load nukes in to the cannon, or the bomb is made up of billions of antimatter particles or whatnot, or a small black hole..there is a certain element of danger.

I am all for big AM weapons and what not. So long as they are rp'd out properly. Either your units are tinderboxes or they carry less weapons do to safety systems. [like my ships]. But in return get some big ol bang sticks.

Knock it off or I'll call the mods to solve this problem, there’s no need to resort to childish flame baiting, the rest I would like you guys to keep it civil, I’m not a mod but I can get them in to this quickly.

Do as you deem neccessary. I am being quite civil. I've pointedly refrained from suggesting he seek counseling this time.

Well i dont want to argue this too much anymore but yes very true a smaller weapon wont hit as hard as a larger one no matter what.

Glad we agree.

However in the case of grasers and AM if you choose to use Gigaton level yields, as in my grasers for instance..its going to be powerful. Same idea as anti matter.

Indeed. No one has ever claimed that AM and grasers are not powerfull.

However remember, AM truly IS more powerful.

Which I have never denied.

However it can do the same thing to your ship. Unless your using tiny yields.

This is exactly what I have been saying.

Remember my standard shipkiller yield is in the gigaton range on AS cap ship sized missiles. Then again i am from Sol and we use pettajoule range spinals and heavy turrets, with very large missiles.

Good for you. In this vein my AS weapons are in the teraton-petaton range with the odd exaton range weapon. Big numbers are fun.:D

And Singularity weapons, i was reffering to missiles.

My point still stands. If you have enough energy to create a massive enough singularity to do as you claim you'd get far more damage just making it a regular bomb. Why? Because gravity is the weakest of all the fundamental forces.

Quickly! Fire the apathy cannon!

This is a game-story-RP-thingy. Physics don't really have a place here.

Thank you....well said.

I was simply referring to the numbers and ratings on my weapons as being standard as determined scientifically by many people in my player group. I have never come up with my own numbers.

But yes anyone who told me an AM missile didnt work cause his shields could do <insert stupid wank here> i would do the same thing i would to anyone that said they were immune to a weapon. Ignore cannon fire! You can have armour or whatnot that is good against something, but can not be invincible. For instance my ships have excellent kinetic protection. They can still be harmed, hammered down or destroyed by them, they arent invincible. Similarly though my ships are armed with very very large slow firing ship killer mounts, they have far fewer numbers of battery weapons then say, star destroyers.

Its about ic and RP, and i prefer to use nothing but RP. However certain players i have encountered here and in sol have pretty much forced me to just add some numbers in for good measure. Because there is alot of tech wank around. Especially from some of the players here who complain about it.

In my first posts on coming back i wrote ic effects and descriptions. After a few weeks trying to play, i realised that without having the zOMG numborz people were just going to try to wank. And that is how the viscious cycle goes.