NationStates Jolt Archive

By August 1961 it becomes apparent that the SCT and Scandic Union are trying to strip Siberia from Russia. The SCT and Scandic Union have been accused of supplying weapons to Caucasian and Siberian seperatists, and the US and Russia have provided information before the UN Security Council and General Assembly backing up their claims.

Poland has gone to Defcon 2, and the SCT announces major exercises in the Bering Sea. This in turn triggers the US going to Defcon 2, and conducting a nuclear forces readiness exercise. China then sends its submarines to sea, and then Russia goes to Defcon 4.

At this point the Scandic Union begins evacuating its citizens from Russia.

Time frame is 1 day = 1 week (so tomorrow is August 8 -15, 1961)

The Nigerian government pledges it's support openly to the United States and Russia. Nigeria goes to DEFCON 3 and mobilizes it's armed forces.

Nigeria contacts the US secretly and let's them know that the military of Nigeria is prepared to deploy overseas to assist the Americans and Russians, provided that transportation can be made avaliable. The Nigerian ambassador to the US states, "We have not forgotten the assistance provided to us by the United States. We will stand by you in this hour, even though our forces are small."

OOC: I see my Caucasian's still get no respect. Also, Kilani, is Nigeria really capable of deploying oversea's? I mean, you kind of just got your independence a few years ago.

reposted from my thread.

IC:All Scandic forces have been put on standby for deployment. The navy, specifically the navy's ballistic arm, have quietly geared up with the subs quietly deploying out to sea. They are ordered to watch closely for any American or any other nationality vessel that may attempt to shadow them. Just as quietly, Special forces units have begun deploying oversea's in allied CSPS nations. The Turkic nations are advised to prepare to mobilize if needed.

OOC: I see my Caucasian's still get no respect. Also, Kilani, is Nigeria really capable of deploying oversea's? I mean, you kind of just got your independence a few years ago.

I'm sure that the Commonwealth or the Americans would be willing to transport Nigerian troops.

OOC: I see my Caucasian's still get no respect. Also, Kilani, is Nigeria really capable of deploying oversea's? I mean, you kind of just got your independence a few years ago.

reposted from my thread.


OOC: Provided someone else gets them there, yes.

Incidentally, I'm going to be unavailable tomorrow until the late evening (eastern time), so if you guys could hold off blowing up the world until I get back, that'd be great.

If things do go to shit, though, assume the South Africa will follow her policies of the past two great wars and back the Commonwealth.

Galveston, my military is listed at the bottom of the first post of the South African thread, so if you need an order of battle while I'm gone, look at that and pick something.

OOC: Provided someone else gets them there, yes.

although your average Nigerian isn't going to find Siberia particularly comfortable, now if we fight in southeast Asia, they would like that a lot better.

although your average Nigerian isn't going to find Siberia particularly comfortable, now if we fight in southeast Asia, they would like that a lot better.

OOC: Indeed they would. Incidentally, here's a list of Nigeria's avaliable military power.


3xHighly Trained Motorized Division
1xElite Armored Brigade
1xElite Marine Brigade
1xExpert Pilot
1xHQ
1xCoastal Patrol Unit
1xDestroyer Flotilla
1xLight Missile Cruiser
1xBAC Lightning Unit

Upon learning the Scandic Union has sent its submarine force to sea... President Kennedy orders the US Navy, US Air Force Air Defense Command and all US nuclear forces to Defcon 3. The US Air National Guard is federalized and all reserve personnel assigned to it are recalled.

The US Army and remainder of the US Air Force remains at Defcon 2, except for forces in Japan, Okinawa and the Philippines. Personnel at Japanese bases are evacuated so that only a skeleton force remains (sufficient to prepare them for demolition, and steps are taken toward that end).

At Subic Bay and Clark Field, steps are taken to contact Filipino officials to see exactly which way they are going on this. Pointed reminders of US and Filipino partnership are made, and the US offers to evacuate them if the Filipinos are prepared to declare neutrality and withdraw from the SCT and to reinforce them if the Philippines is interested in joining the Oceanic Alliance.

The US points at the evidence that the SCT and Scandic Union are the ones trying to destablize Russia and edging the world toward war.

[Under DEFCON 4 all military units have been activated.]

USEA military report
Circa 1961

USEAA (Army):

-Central Strategic Army Command: [General Vo Nguyen Giap]
1x HQ Unit (Saigon Military Acadamy) [Highly Trained]

-1st Army Group: [General Tran Van Tra]
1st Light Infantry Division (Saigon Military Acadamy) [Highly Trained]
2nd Light Infantry Division (Saigon Military Acadamy) [Highly Trained]
2x Ht-3 Tou Helicopter transport units (Saigon Military Acadamy)
2x Expert pilots (Saigon Military Acadamy)

-2nd Army Group: [General Sunan Mongkut]
3rd Light Infantry Division (Bangkok) [Highly Trained]
4th Light Infantry Division (Bangkok) [Highly Trained]
2x Ht-3 Tou Helicopter transport unit (Bangkok)
2x Expert pilot (Bangkok)

-3rd Army Group: [General Lon Nol]
1st Mechanized infantry Division (Xam Nua) [Highly Trained]
2nd Mechanized Infantry Division (Xam Nua) [Highly Trained]
1st Armoured Division (Xam Nua) [Elite]
1st Mechanized Artillery Division (Xam Nua) [Highly Trained]

-Saigon Aerial Defence Group:
1x Mechanized Flak group (Saigon) [Highly Trained]

-Bangkok Aerial Defence Group:
1x Mechanized Flak group (Bangkok) [Highly Trained]

-Army Pathfinders [General Van Tin Dungl]
1st Special Mechanised Airborne Battalion (Hanoi) [Hand picked]
1x Ht-80 transport unit (Hanoi)
1x Expert pilot (Hanoi)


UIMC (Marines):

-Central Strategic Marine Command: [General Shui Huan Bai]
1x HQ Unit (Nha Trang) [Highly Trained]

-1st Marine Response Unit: [General Sopheap Phirun]
1st Marine Light infantry Brigade (Nha Trang Marine Acadamy) [Highly Trained]
2nd Marine Light infantry Brigade (Nha Trang Marine Acadamy) [Highly Trained]
1st Marine Mechanized Brigade (Nha Trang Marine Acadamy) [Highly Trained]
2x Ht-3 Tou Helicopter transport units (Nha Trang Marine Acadamy)
2x Expert pilot (Nha Trang Marine Acadamy)

-2nd Marine Response Unit: [General Quy Vien Tu]
3rd Marine Light infantry Brigade (Louangphrabang) [Highly Trained]
4th Marine Light infantry Brigade (Louangphrabang) [Highly Trained]
2nd Marine Mechanized Brigade (Louangphrabang) [Highly Trained]
2x Ht-3 Tou Helicopter transport units (Louangphrabang)
2x Expert pilot (Louangphrabang)

-3rd Marine Response Unit: [General Vanna Klahan]
5th Marine Light infantry Brigade (Surat Thani) [Highly Trained]
3rd Marine Mechanized Brigade (Surat Thani) [Highly Trained]
4th Marine Mechanized Brigade (Surat Thani) [Highly Trained]
1x Ht-3 Tou Helicopter transport units (Surat Thani)
1x Expert pilot (Surat Thani)

- 1st Marine Air Support Group: [General Phan Anh]
1st Marine Air Support Wing [A4 Skyhawk light bomber unit] (Laem Chabang MAFB)
2nd Marine Air Support Wing [A4 Skyhawk light bomber unit] (Laem Chabang MAFB)
2x Expert pilot (Laem Chabang)

- 2nd Marine Air Support Group: [General Gan Yui Sho]
3rd Marine Air Support Wing [A4 Skyhawk light bomber unit] (Louangphrabang MAFB)
1x Expert pilot (Louangphrabang MAFB)


-Marine Naval Support Group: [Colonel Tu Heng Jing]
Jiao class CL 'Jiao' (Cam Ranh)- Bering Sea
Jiao class CL 'Rong' (Cam Ranh)- Bering Sea
-2x ASW air wings


USEAAF (Airforce):

-Central Strategic Airforce Command: [General Klahan Dai Sunan]
1x HQ Unit (Vinh) [Highly Trained]

- 1st Air Superiority Group: [General Chu Van Tan]
1st Air Superiority Wing [Dassault Mirage IIIE fighter unit] (Vinh AFB)
2nd Air Superiority Wing [Dassault Mirage IIIE fighter unit] (Da Nang AFB)
1x Expert pilot (Vinh AFB)
1x Expert pilot (Da Nang AFB)

- 2nd Air Superiority Group: [General Hoko Bao An]
3rd Air Superiority Wing [Dassault Mirage IIIE fighter unit] (Nakhon Sawan AFB)
4th Air Superiority Wing [Dassault Mirage IIIE fighter unit] (Songkhla AFB)
1x Expert pilot (Nakhon Sawan AFB)
1x Expert pilot (Songkhla AFB)

-1st Tactical Bombing Group: [General Nyugen An Phong]
1st Tactical Bomber Wing [Hong-6 Light bomber Unit] (Saigon AFB)
2nd Tactical Bomber Wing [Hong-6 Light bomber Unit] (Da Nang AFB)
1x Expert pilots (Saigon AFB)
1x Expert pilots (Da Nang AFB)

-1st Strategic Bombing Group: [General Shi Ko An]
1st Strategic Bomber Wing [CA Kirin-B Strategic Bomber] (Kracheh SAFB)
2nd Strategic Bomber Wing [CA Kirin-B Strategic Bomber] (Khon Kaen SAFB)
1x Expert pilots (Kracheh SAFB)
1x Expert pilots (Khon Kaen SAFB)


-1st Aerial Support Group: [General Heng An]
1st Aerial Support Wing [CA Kirin Lamsong Tanker unit] (Saigon AFB)
1x Expert pilots (Saigon AFB)


-Airforce Transport Divison:
1st Heavy Transport Wing [C124 Globemaster II Heavy transport unit] (Saigon AFB)
2nd Heavy Transport Wing [C124 Globemaster II Heavy transport unit] (Vinh AFB)
3rd Heavy Transport Wing [C124 Globemaster II Heavy transport unit] (Songkhla AFB)
4th Heavy Transport Wing [C124 Globemaster II Heavy transport unit] (Nakhon Sawan AFB)
1x Expert pilots (Saigon AFB)
1x Expert pilots (Vinh AFB)
1x Expert pilots (Songkhla AFB)
1x Expert pilots (Nakhon Sawan AFB)



USEAN (Navy):

-South China Sea Fleet: [Admiral Quy An Quang]
'Nyugen Ai Quoc' CVA (Cam Ranh) - Bering Sea
Heavy Carrier Air wing (Nyugen Ai Quoc CVA, Cam Ranh Naval Air Station)- Bering Sea
'Zhao Tou' Zhao Tou Class Light missile cruiser (Cam Ranh)- Bering Sea
'Lan Xang'Lan Xang Class Heavy Missile cruiser (Cam Ranh)- Bering Sea
3x Destroyer units (2 vessals)(Cam Ranh)- Bering Sea
2x ASW Frigate Unit (2 Vessals) (Cam Ranh)- Bering Sea
'Shou' Shou Class Nuclear Attack Submarine (Cam Ranh)- Bering Sea
'Vinh' Shou Class Nuclear Attack Submarine (Cam Ranh)- Bering Sea
'Veng Shi' Veng Shi Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (Cam Ranh)- Bering Sea

-Andaman Sea Fleet: [Admiral Xue Wu Zhou]
'Indochina' CVA (Phuket)
Heavy Carrier Air wing (Indochina CV, Sattahip Naval Air Station)
'Lin Yen' Lan Xang Class Heavy Missile cruiser (Phuket)
'Lac Long Quan' Zhao Tou Class Light missile cruiser (Phuket)
'Au Co' Zhao Tou Class Light missile cruiser (Phuket)
3x Destroyer units (2 vessals)(Phuket)
1x ASW Frigate Unit (2 Vessals) (Phuket)
'Hue' Shou Class Nuclear Attack Submarine (Phuket)
'Phongsali' Shou Class Nuclear Attack Submarine (Phuket)- At sea on patrol
'Vo Ling' Veng Shi Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (Phuket)- At sea on patrol

-Northern Coast Guard Patrol Group: [Admiral Pich Veasna]
1x Patrol / Escort group (Haiphong)
1x Coastal Patrol Group (Haiphong)

-Southern Coast Guard Patrol Group: [Admiral Leon Yann]
1x Patrol / Escort group (Bangkok)
1x Coastal Patrol Group (Bangkok)

-Naval Transport Department:
1st Amphibious Assault Group (Cam Ranh)
2nd Amphibious Assault Group (Phuket)


Merchant Navy:

14,000,000 tons of shipping


IIA (Indnochinese Inteligiance Agency):

8,000 Anlysts
Ocean Trawlers
Improved Spy Satellites


Nuclear weapons stockpile:
(Nuclear weapons are currently being deployed to units in preperation for an unconventional nuclear war)
525 Boosted fission bombs
2,000 Hydrogen Bombs

Britain upgrades alert level to moderate (DEFCON 2, upper) and places all missile silos on alert status. British nuclear subs slip of of HMNB Clyde and begin "readiness operations" in the North Sea. The ballistics subs leave with a full complement of nuclear IRBM missiles. Just in case the weapons establishment at Porton Down cracks out the VX gas ready for dispatch to bombers or missile silos if war gets dirty. GCHQ is placed on full readiness to detect signals coming from the SCT or Scandinavia.

The British 3rd mechanised division is recalled from the Carribean to the UK via navy vessels. The TA is not called up as of yet, but British citizens are advised to leave Russia via their nearest Embassy or Consulate who will organise flights for them back to Britain. Embassy staff in SCT nations, Russia and the SU are advised to keep monitoring the situation but to be ready to destroy any sensitive information and equipment as soon as local situations warrant it or else the word is given from London. A test of the emergency broadcast system is made and British civil and air defence/warning systems are tested.

Finally British spy satellites are to focus on SU and SCT military facilities (especially missile sites) whenever they are flying over. British U2 aircraft are to be readied for missions whenever the situation dictates it.

British diplomats and politicians publically decry the SCT and SU involvement in Siberia and call for immediate cessation of the funding shown to be flowing into the area. A public announcement of Britain's intentions to stand with the Oceanic Alliance and the Commonwealth on this matter is made by the Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan.

excuse me, excuse me.
We are at Defcon 3! not 2.
The US intelligence service seems to be getting worse every year. :D
ooc: lol, had to

Poland will support a peaceful change over of who rules Siberia. It is possible, that they could become some sort of state, or territoy, like you Americans have. You can strenghthen the local and state government, giving the more power, but still keeping them in Russia.

If the Russian government refuses to act peacefully, the Polish military quite possibly will have to join the growing conflict.

The Japanese embassy in Russia has evacuated all citizens of Japan, Korea, and the Scandic Union it can find, and is wiling to do the same for any other nation. The embassy staff has been stripped to guards and a handful of diplomats, just enough to help evacuate foreign nationals

Russia begins (very quietly) entering discussions with Caucasian leaders. After this crisis has abetted, discussions will begin about granting some areas independence, autonomy, or merger with Armenia-Georgia. However, those that fight Russia will be excluded from negotiations.

Military Status is as follows. Red units are not ready for service, but will be by year's end. Numbers next to each Homeland command show appropriate DEFCONs

Russian Military-Jan. 1963
(ie: includes 1962 builds)

Russia's defense has been divided into three sectors. Western Homeland Command covers an area stretching approximately from Moscow to the western borders (of Poland, the SU, and soon Belarus), Central Homeland command is approximately from Moscow to the Urals, and Eastern Homeland Comand is from the Urals to the Pacific.

Western Homeland Command: 3

Army
-1st Infantry Corps*: Novgorod
-2nd Infantry Corps*: Voronezh
--1st Mechanized Infantry Division (highly trained): Smolensk
--2nd Mechanized Infantry Division (Highly trained): Arkhangel'sk
---5th Mountain Brigade (Highly trained): Arkhangel'sk
---6th Mountain Brigade (Highly trained): Orel
---1st Paratroop Brigade (Highly trained): Moscow**
Combat Air Wings
-2nd Su-19 Wing (Highly Trained): Voronezh
-1st Yak 25 Wing (Highly trained): Moscow
-2nd Yak 25 Wing (Highly Trained): Novgorod
-1st Yak 28 Wing (Highly Trained): Moscow
Support Air Wings
-1st Air Recon Unit (SIC Recon-configured An-12 planes, as RC-135): Dispersed, based in Moscow
-1st Electronic Support Unit (AEW-configured AN-12s): Moscow, somewhat dispersed
Navy
None, due to illegal occupation of Murmansk and St. Petersburg by Scandanavian Union


Central Homeland Command: 3

Army
-3rd Infantry Corps*: Rostov
-4th Infantry Corps (Light)*: Astrakhan
--3rd Mechanized Infantry Division (Highly trained): Saratov
---4th Mountain Brigade (Highly trained): Orenburg
---2nd Paratroop Brigade (Highly trained): Saratov**
Combat Air Wings
-3rd Yak 25 Wing (Highly Trained): Volgograd
-2nd Yak 28 Wing (Highly Trained): Rostov
Support Air Wings
1st Maritime Patrol Unit (Be-6): Rostov
Navy
2 ASW Frigates
1 AA Cruiser
5 SSK (Conventional)


Eastern Homeland Command: 4
Army
-5th Infantry Corps (Light)*: Chita
-6th Infantry Corps (Light)*: Abakan
--4th Mechanized Infantry Division (highly trained): Yekaterinburg
---1st Mountain Brigade (Highly trained): Omsk
---2nd Mountain Brigade (Highly Trained): Irkutsk
---3rd Mountain Brigade (Highly Trained): Khabarovsk
Combat Air Wings
4th Yak 25 Wing (Highly Trained): Chita
-1st Su-19 Wing (Highly Trained): Chita
Reserve Combat Air Wings
-1st Su-5 Wing: Irkutsk
Support Air Wings
-1st Air Transport Wing (An-12): Khabarovsk
Navy
None

The Federal Government has retreated to emergency positions. I will inform LR and/or GB as to locations, but the Prime Minister, Duma, Central Court, and Cabinet have all been moved to different cities. The Central Court will fufill the role of the Duma if it is compromised, and the Cabinet will take over the role of the Prime Minister if need be. Regular operations in Moscow are being maintained by lower level positions. The Foreign Ministry will operate out of Dublin or Washington DC (the two largest embassies) if Moscow is attacked.

Should I submit orders for Siberia to LR or GB?

Japanese Military Forces



Japanese Fleet



Yokohoma: 1 Light Missile Cruiser, 1 Destroyer Unit,
1 Antiaircraft Cruiser, 2 ASW Frigate Units
Air Support: 1 Mig-25, 1 Mirage III, 2 expert pilots (Yokohoma)


Japanese Army




Army of Hokkaido

4 Parachute Brigades: Sapporro*
2 Helicopter Transportw/ 2 expert pilots: Sapporro
1 Garrison Unit: Sapporro
1 Flak Unit: Sapporro
1 Mountain Brigade: Sapporro*
Air Support: 1 Mig-25, 1 Mirage III, 2 Helicopter Transports, 4 C82's, 8 Expert Pilots

Army of Honshu


3 Mechanized Infantry Divisions: Kyoto, Yokohoma, Sendai*
1 Armored Divison: Tokyo*
4 Flak Units: Tokyo, Kyoto, Yokohoma, Sendia
4 Garrison Units: Kobe, Nagoya, Hiroshima, Akita
2 Light Infantry Divisions: Hiroshima, Kobe*
Air Support: 1 Mirage III, expert pilot


Army of Kyushu and Shikoku


1 Flak Unit:Fukuoka
1 Garrison Unit: Fukuoka
1 Mountain Brigade: Kitakyushu*
Air Support: none


Island Command


1 Light Infantry Division: Kurils*
1 Light Infantry Division: Iwo Jima R&D station*
1 Mountain Brigade: Bonin islands*
1 Mountain brigade: Ryuku Islands*
Air Support: none

*=highly trained



Strategic Command



Stockpile: 60 A-bomb nuclear weapons (back log because I did it wrong)
1 Kirin Unit

All Japanese forces are at Defense Level 3

Reports were filing in, America's and Britian's nuclear forces mobilizing, VX nerve gas being broken out of storage, The Russian army in places was at Defcon 4, and now the withdrawal of the Russian ambassador from the U.N. Fearing the worst nuclear and missile forces went up to Defcon 3, with preparations made to go 4 soon. Conventional forces in Finland, Karelia, Estonia and Petrograd have gone Defcon 4 with forces in the rest of the country moving up to 3. The Baltic fleet to sea for manuevers, while the airforce begins shifting aircraft from airbases in Central Scandinavia to airbases on the North Sea coast and in Scandinavia's eastern regions.

In Stockholm the government and military begin dispersing to various locations around the country. While in the CAR, Turkey and Azerbaijan, the respective militaries go Defcon 2.

China makes a statement.

"China has no intention whatsoever to use nuclear weapons aganist Russia. Therefore there is no need for Russia to go to nuclear alert. In fact, the only reason we have nuclear weapons is because of America and its nuclear stockpile. If America did not have nuclear weapons then China would not have its own nuclear weapons as China would not see the need to possess any.

Therefore, it will be America that destroys us all if they decide to employ nuclear weapons. America will be the first to use nuclear weapons, I promise you, as China refuses to the first one to initate a nuclear exchange. The Chinese nuclear arsenal is for defense aganist American nuclear arsenal ONLY.

Is America willing to see hundreds of cities, dozens of priceless historical centers, and the cradles of civilization destroyed in nuclear fire? Washington, Moscow, Beijing, London, Paris, Rome, Cairo, Jerusalem, Delhi, Tokyo, Rio-De-Janeiro, New York City, and so on, all destroyed? Billions of people dead from nuclear fire? World War 3 magnified by ten-fold?

This is exactly why China refuses to use nuclear weapons unless it is attacked by nuclear weapons. We do not wish to see the world destroyed by nuclear weapons. I personally hope that the Americans aren't so hot-headed to sign the death warrant of humankind as we know it.

Simply put, nuclear weapons should have never been invented and developed in the first place. If every nation in the world were to destroy their nuclear weapons, China would be much more than happy to destroy its own nuclear weapons as the need will no longer be there to possess any.

That aside, we have not mobilized any troops nor made any aggressive actions or movements towards Russia or any foreign powers. Otherwise your spy satellites, spy planes, and intelligence services would have seen hundreds of thousands of Chinese soldiers amassing near Siberia. This is not the case. In addition, China is maintaining readiness comparable to Defcon 2, while most nations are going to Defcon 3 or 4. This should speak for itself."

SIC

Debate begins about bringing WHC to DEFCON 4, matching the Scandanavian level, but it is not raised yet. If discussions in the Causcaus are successful, CHC could be lowered to DEFCON 2.

South Africa begins evacuating South African and other Commonwealth citizens through its embassy in Russia. The embassy itself is mostly abandoned, with a few guards and token diplomatic staff remaining. The ambassador, one Mitchell Adebowale, remains as well.

Should I submit orders for Siberia to LR or GB?

Probably GB as this is likely to get very big, out of the range of a simple guerrilla war which I deal with. Plus I have a maths exam on Tuesday which could get in the way.

tag

tag

wait, when did Kordo come back in the game? You left when things were getting exciting

Probably GB as this is likely to get very big, out of the range of a simple guerrilla war which I deal with.

Highly unlikely, unless some idiot freaks out and starts lobbing nukes everywhere.
This just E20's Cuban Missile crisis.

The Russian Missile Crisis since things only started escalating when the Americans threatened to move nukes and missiles into Russia.

Highly unlikely, unless some idiot freaks out and starts lobbing nukes everywhere.
This just E20's Cuban Missile crisis.

I fear you may be underestimating the warmongering nature of E20 dwellers!

I don't think much will come of it though (That's why the UK is still at DEFCON 2) but if it does it's better to have someone who can deal with it with all the info. You can keep sending your intel plans to me though, don't worry if you don't get a reply, I can't reply to everyone's plans, but I have read every TG and noted it down for actioning.

Russia brings the following proposal to leaders in the Causcasus.
-The assorted groups dealt with will not take up arms or otherwise impede Russia in its current situation. Doing so will violate this agreement. After voting (see below) is concluded, all groups will surrender armaments.
-Russian military units will not be deployed to the areas in question.
-In 1963, a vote will be held in the following territories to determine their fate. If Russia is at war, this may need to be delayed until peace is made.
--Dagestan (80% Dagestani) will vote to determine whether it becomes independent or remains with Russia.
--Kalmykia (45% Kalmyk) will vote to determine whether it become autonomous or remains with Russia
--Chechnya-Ingushetia (58% Chechen, 13% Ingush) will vote to determine whether it becomes autonomous, joins Armenia-Georgia, or remains with Russia
--Ossetia (53% Ossetian) will vote to determine whether it becomes autonomous, joins Armenia-Georgia, or remains with Russia.

In addition, they discuss the possibility of giving Tuva (the only area of Siberia not ethnically Russian, 63% Tuvan) autonomous status, under the same conditions.

Autonomous status means the following:
--Ability to conduct regular internal affairs separate from central Russian policy (their own education system, etc.), and input in foreign affairs
--Retain all rights accorded to Russian citizens
--No troops (Russian or otherwise) will be placed in autonomous areas in peacetime
--The right to its own defense force, however all sales must be approved by the federal government
--Exemption from regular conscription, although citizens may volunteer to join Russian military
--Representation in the Duma equal to half the seats normally afforded, and limited federal taxation in territories (mainly on imports and the like)


We await a response.

(OOC: I think this has a good chance of being accepted. There were a bunch of people who genuinely wanted a chance to rule themselves, and they'd likely choose a compromise to ending up on the wrong end of an armored division, despite their backer's strategies.)

As soon as Egyptian Intel recieved word of the global mobilization, a massive mobilization was ordered. Ground forces were scatter throughout Syria and the northern Arab Federation while all aircraft were fueled and readied for combat. Without the rest of the League's knowledge, Egypt dispatched an urgent message to the Turkish government:

"Due to your location, we realize that you most likely feel threatened should conflict erupt in Russia. The Arab League will not consider a Turkish mobilization as a hostile action, for we know that the defense of your people should be held above all alliances and rivalries. We simply ask that you do not station a large force among the Arab borders, for then we would have to do the same. At this current time, only one division is stationed on each border with a Turkish Alliance member. We ask that you honor this act of trust."

wait, when did Kordo come back in the game? You left when things were getting exciting

Nope, I left. But I'm still keeping a close eye on my successor. His lack of an overwelming blood-lust is rather disconcerning.

The Australian government expresses alarm at the brinkmanship being shown by all nations. Military forces are moved to a Defcon 2 Equivalent, though precautions are taken to not alarm the public. Construction on the first batch of Australian produced ICBMs, the 2nd generation Dingo (equivalent of 2nd gen. Titan missile) was scheduled for completion in 1961 and any avaliable missiles that were finished by August are readied (I bought 2 batches so if by halfway through the year they would both be half done, giving me effectively one full set of 10 to use).

Australian Diplomats in possibly affected capitals (specifically Russia) are directed to find shelter in other locations. However, the government under Lyle Kennard makes a point to not go under cover, as a show of solidarity with the public.

Nope, I left. But I'm still keeping a close eye on my successor. His lack of an overwelming blood-lust is rather disconcerning.

True, if you were still around I have a feeling that we would be fighting off Russian armoured units right now.

China gently informs Australia that China will be the victim in such a global war. A similiar statement is made to various other nations in the world.

Point 1: China has not mobilized its military among any of its borders like the OA and Russia fear.

Point 2: China has nuclear weapons BUT will not use them in a first strike DESPITE being attacked by nuclear weapons in the past. We know all too well the destruction just one nuclear weapon will do, let alone thousands of them.

Point 3: The only reason why China possesses nuclear weapons is to offset the American nuclear arsenal, thus America cannot nuke China willy-nilly with no consquences.

Point 4: It will be the Americans who will fire nuclear weapons first, and America will be responible for the destruction of mankind in the nuclear exchange that will follow. The responibility and fault of the death of billions, the vaporization of virtually every major city on Earth, and the end of civilization will be squarely on the shoulders of America. Should the Americans go ahead and commit to this course of action with nuclear weapons, then the Americans are the ones who are evil, committing the ultimate crime of making humankind extinct.

Point 5: China will not invade mainland America or threaten any American, Australian, South American, Central American, etc. interests.

Final point: China is maintaining its conventional and nuclear forces at similiar condition to DEFCON 2, whereas practically all nations involved are upgrading their DEFCON conditions to 3 and 4.

The bottom line is that America will be the aggressor and America will be the one who initates a potential nuclear attack. China refuses to be the aggressor as it is not mobilizing its army, China refusing to launch nuclear weapons first, and China will be the innocent defender should the war go "hot".

President Victor Mykola sends a secret order to the military to begin standby procedures, in preparation for rising military tensions. Ukrainian forces coordinate with incoming SU forces to provide maximum support.

OOC: LR, I know your busy, but I need a Caucas update, a lot of what I'm doing depends on them.

IC:Radio stations in CSPS CAR and Azerbaijan have started airing new programs aimed at those in the Caucases. These new programs have begun calling directly for full independence for the Caucasian peoples asking why if Belarus and Georgia could recieve full independence must many of the Caucasian's only accept partial independence still under Russian control paying Russian taxes? The programs also proclaim that the Caucasian people have the full support of Scandinavia and all of the CSPS.


A message to the Russian government was sent through what open channels remained calling for the Russian's to stand down a d peacefully end the oprression in the Caucases and Siberia, and grant them their independence.

China gently informs Australia that China will be the victim in such a global war. A similiar statement is made to various other nations in the world.

Point 1: China has not mobilized its military among any of its borders like the OA and Russia fear.

Point 2: China has nuclear weapons BUT will not use them in a first strike DESPITE being attacked by nuclear weapons in the past. We know all too well the destruction just one nuclear weapon will do, let alone thousands of them.

Point 3: The only reason why China possesses nuclear weapons is to offset the American nuclear arsenal, thus America cannot nuke China willy-nilly with no consquences.

Point 4: It will be the Americans who will fire nuclear weapons first, and America will be responible for the destruction of mankind in the nuclear exchange that will follow. The responibility and fault of the death of billions, the vaporization of virtually every major city on Earth, and the end of civilization will be squarely on the shoulders of America. Should the Americans go ahead and commit to this course of action with nuclear weapons, then the Americans are the ones who are evil, committing the ultimate crime of making humankind extinct.

Point 5: China will not invade mainland America or threaten any American, Australian, South American, Central American, etc. interests.

Final point: China is maintaining its conventional and nuclear forces at similiar condition to DEFCON 2, whereas practically all nations involved are upgrading their DEFCON conditions to 3 and 4.

The bottom line is that America will be the aggressor and America will be the one who initates a potential nuclear attack. China refuses to be the aggressor as it is not mobilizing its army, China refusing to launch nuclear weapons first, and China will be the innocent defender should the war go "hot".

Beijing is quitely informed that Australia has no intention of making the first strike and is reminded that Canberra has followed the Chinese lead in maintaining a lower (relative) alert than other nations. That no moves will be taken against Australian interests is reassuring, but precautions must be made. Missiles will not be used by Australia unless a direct attack on Australian interests occurs.

It is worthy of note though that though China's actions are more conciliatory, such angry rhetoric in attacking the United States (verbally) is both destablizing and dangerous to world peace. Perhaps both sides could take a step back.

China issues a statement to Russia.

"We have noted with some alarm that you are mobilizing troops in Siberia. We are concerned that these troops may possibly attack and suppress the Siberians who are attempting to speak out for their freedom and independence.

We have acquired some reports of Russian troops attacking Siberians in major cities throughout Siberia. China believes the continued actions of the troops will only excaberate the situation and lead to worse conditions within Siberia. The more people are suppressed, the more they want to revolt and fight aganist their oppressors. Its very much like a child- the more a parent punishes the child, the more defiant the child becomes.

China does not want to see more Siberians killed from the actions of Russian troops in this continuing vicious cycle. Towards this end, we believe it would be prudent for Russia to either stand down or withdraw their troops from the major Siberian cities so that the Siberians need not fear Russian troops plundering, attacking, or harassing them in their homes or businesses. This will go a long way to reduce the discontent, fear, and anger the Siberians have aganist Russia. The troops can and should return to their military bases in Siberia instead of inside the cities themselves."

The US Navy shifts forces around:

forming 3 strike fleets of 4 heavy carriers (and associated escorts) in the Indian Ocean, Northern Pacific and North Atlantic, and 3 escort fleets of 3 ASW fleet carriers each in the North Atlantic, Eastern Pacific and South Pacific.

Tankers and maritime patrol aircraft are moved forward to Alaska, Iceland, Diego Garcia, Morocco, Belgian Congo, and the Azores. Rapid deployment forces of airborne troops and marines are assembled to reinforce the ground defenses at those bases, as well as the Philippines and Irkutsk. (no troops actually move yet).

Meanwhile, Air National Guard and USAF interceptors begin aggressively patrolling the skies over North America (alongside the Canadians), Iceland, Greenland, Hawaii, and Australia (alongside the RAAF).

The Oceanic Alliance Atlantic and Pacific Commands begin coordinating US, Australisian, British, and FNS naval forces in accordance with contigency plans.

Meanwhile, routine space operations to Yankee and Dixie Station continue but all US X15 and X20 spacecraft not currently conducting missions go into hanger for preventive maintenance. Missions are also rescheduled to ensure continous satellite coverage is available.

US RC135 Rivet Joint aircraft operating out of Alaska, Siberia, Iceland, Morocco and Diego Garcia keep close tabs on the periphery of the SCT and CSPS while SR71 flights are also conducted just outside (and sometimes inside) the airspaces of those nations (usually just long enough to activate defense radars but not long enough for an intercept at Mach 4)

Alliance commercial shipping is ordered to leave SCT and CSPS waters for the duration of the crisis. Further economic pressure is also considered.

A formal statement is issued to the SCT and CSPS nations at the UN, through their US Embassies and through US embassies in their nations.

"The US insists that all assistance to rebel forces end at once, and that a formal pledge to live up to the UN Charter, which calls for nations not to interfere in the internal affairs of other nations, nor subsidize revolutionary movements in fellow UN states be made public. Failure to do so will only increase the already dangerous drift toward war."

A formal statement is issued to the SCT and CSPS nations at the UN, through their US Embassies and through US embassies in their nations.

"The US insists that all assistance to rebel forces end at once, and that a formal pledge to live up to the UN Charter, which calls for nations not to interfere in the internal affairs of other nations, nor subsidize revolutionary movements in fellow UN states be made public. Failure to do so will only increase the already dangerous drift toward war."

Is it not one of the tenets of the UN to advocate freedom and justice? Is it not true that the UN helped nations become independent- take the Congo for instance? Or the various UN Mandates like with Indonesia and several African nations? If the UN does not support freedom and justice as it should, and give an outlet for people to be heard (Siberians and Cascuasians for example), then what is the point of having the UN?

Those who are supposedly advocates of freedom and justice, as well as having their entire society founded on the premise of representation, freedom of speech, and the right to govern themselves are not supporting their ideals. They would rather see people be oppressed or repressed instead as evidenced by a majority of UN nations not condemning Russian tactics in Siberia and Causcaus, but condeming those who would speak out aganist such Russian repression. That goes aganist the spirit of the UN, aiding those in need, and the Siberians and Causcausians are ones who are in need.

If this situation existed 200 years ago in the exact same way it is barring nuclear weapons, and the UN existing back then instead of now, many of today's nations would have never existed. Nations refusing to advocate the very ideals and premises they were established on, and refusing to aid the under-represented, the down-trodden, and those who seek to be able to control their own destinies. Without support and with foreign nations refusing to aid or help, nations like America. France under a Republic. Various states in the Middle East. Multiple African nations. Asian nations like Burma or India, and so on would never exist as their own nations or they would still remain as colonies of foreign powers.

To put it simply, the Siberians and Causcausians have come to the UN seeking help and support to establish their own nation. The UN helped the Congo establish its own nation independent from Belgium, so why cannot Siberia and Causcaus? Why is the majority of the UN refusing to provide Siberians and Causcausians with support while the UN had already gave support for other nations becoming independent?

To put it simply, the Siberians and Causcausians have come to the UN seeking help and support to establish their own nation. The UN helped the Congo establish its own nation independent from Belgium, so why cannot Siberia and Causcaus? Why is the majority of the UN refusing to provide Siberians and Causcausians with support while the UN had already gave support for other nations becoming independent?

The Siberians and Caucasians have come to the UN to demand that the United Nations take action against the Russian Federation, and not to use the UN Assembly as a forum to debate the merits of their arguments in favor of independence.

The South African delegate that the UN did not fund rebellious groups in the Belgian Congo, but rather conducting its business publicly and openly. Besides, the Belgian government in Congo-Leopoldville was suspected of human rights violations, while the Russian government in its disputed territories resorted to questionable police actions only after it became clear that foreign powers were trying to subvert the legitimate government of the area.

Flights of Mig 25's are to begin patrolling the North Sea out past Scandic waters and into international, but never British or Icelandic waters. In space, RORsats are keeping tabs on the American and British fleets in the North Atlantic and any British units in the North Sea. Bomber units armed with anti shipping missiles are deployed in airbases near the North Sea coast and begin conducting regular practice runs on older, mothballed ships. A heavy flak presence is set up to protect the North Sea coast from air assault.

Further flights of Mig 25 interceptors are ordered to shadow any American recon or intelligence craft that come near CSPS airspace but not to cross over from friendly airspace. If the American craft violate CSPS airspace they are to be given a warning and ordered to leave, if they do not leave they are to be considered hostile as long as they remain in CSPS airspace and are to be taken down.

In response to the OA, Scandic shipping is advised to avoid OA ports, although no further action has been taken.

A message is sent to the Icelandic government asking them to not allow useage of their airfields for either side. Iceland is asked to stay neutral in these current affairs, and is asked not to help the American's harm their kinsmen.


A formal statement is issued to the SCT and CSPS nations at the UN, through their US Embassies and through US embassies in their nations.

"The US insists that all assistance to rebel forces end at once, and that a formal pledge to live up to the UN Charter, which calls for nations not to interfere in the internal affairs of other nations, nor subsidize revolutionary movements in fellow UN states be made public. Failure to do so will only increase the already dangerous drift toward war."

"The Scandic Union can not comply with any requests untill such a time that Russian troops and KGB cease their opression of both the Siberian and Caucasian peoples. Dozens of civilians have been ruthlessly killed and dozens more have been kidnapped by Russian KGB with no trace of them since.

China gently informs Australia that China will be the victim in such a global war. A similiar statement is made to various other nations in the world.

Point 1: China has not mobilized its military among any of its borders like the OA and Russia fear.

Point 2: China has nuclear weapons BUT will not use them in a first strike DESPITE being attacked by nuclear weapons in the past. We know all too well the destruction just one nuclear weapon will do, let alone thousands of them.

Point 3: The only reason why China possesses nuclear weapons is to offset the American nuclear arsenal, thus America cannot nuke China willy-nilly with no consquences.

Point 4: It will be the Americans who will fire nuclear weapons first, and America will be responible for the destruction of mankind in the nuclear exchange that will follow. The responibility and fault of the death of billions, the vaporization of virtually every major city on Earth, and the end of civilization will be squarely on the shoulders of America. Should the Americans go ahead and commit to this course of action with nuclear weapons, then the Americans are the ones who are evil, committing the ultimate crime of making humankind extinct.

Point 5: China will not invade mainland America or threaten any American, Australian, South American, Central American, etc. interests.

Final point: China is maintaining its conventional and nuclear forces at similiar condition to DEFCON 2, whereas practically all nations involved are upgrading their DEFCON conditions to 3 and 4.

The bottom line is that America will be the aggressor and America will be the one who initates a potential nuclear attack. China refuses to be the aggressor as it is not mobilizing its army, China refusing to launch nuclear weapons first, and China will be the innocent defender should the war go "hot".

Korea seconds this, and assures the World it is at Alert Status only (equivalent to Defcon 2-3). The Kim Government assures the people there is no cause for alarm, and it also says that though it supports the Siberian and Caucasian minorities in this matter, both sides should take a look at the Russian proposal to the Caucasus and Siberian minorities, for it may be a good idea.

The Siberians and Caucasians have come to the UN to demand that the United Nations take action against the Russian Federation, and not to use the UN Assembly as a forum to debate the merits of their arguments in favor of independence.

Perhaps it was because the Russian Federation refused to give the Siberians and Caucasians a hearing or discussion forum, much less a fair one. Otherwise why would they seek UN aid if they could not do it on their own, hmm?

The South African delegate that the UN did not fund rebellious groups in the Belgian Congo, but rather conducting its business publicly and openly. Besides, the Belgian government in Congo-Leopoldville was suspected of human rights violations, while the Russian government in its disputed territories resorted to questionable police actions only after it became clear that foreign powers were trying to subvert the legitimate government of the area.

Two wrongs do not make a right. A human rights violation is a violation, regardless of cause or effect. The Russians, instead of initating such actions with its KGB and police actions, should have listened to the Siberians and opened up a discussion forum to debate their issues.

Alas, the Siberians lost their "voice" in the Russian Duma. How can the Siberians speak for themselves if they have no representation? To put it into perpsective, suppose every Senator and Representative in the state of New York in the USA were of the Republican Party. What of the millions of Democrats in New York, then? They have no one in the Senate and Representative to speak on behalf of the citizens who are Democrats and their beliefs, ideology, and such, as the entire "political" voice of New York would be the Republican Party with not one seat filled by a Democrat. (Hypothetical situation).

In response to the OA, Scandic shipping is advised to avoid OA ports, although no further action has been taken.

A message is sent to the Icelandic government asking them to not allow useage of their airfields for either side. Iceland is asked to stay neutral in these current affairs, and is asked not to help the American's harm their kinsmen.

ooc
that is unlikely to get a positive response as the Americans liberated Iceland from Danish rule in the 1920s (just before the 2nd Great War) and provided substantial assistance over the years but in any case, as Iceland doesn't have a military, and the US has an infantry division plus air units stationed there, Icelandic permission is a mute point if push comes to shove.


"The Scandic Union can not comply with any requests untill such a time that Russian troops and KGB cease their opression of both the Siberian and Caucasian peoples. Dozens of civilians have been ruthlessly killed and dozens more have been kidnapped by Russian KGB with no trace of them since.

In response to this along with Chinese statements, Kennedy orders all US forces to Defcon 3 (reserves are called up) except for the Navy, SAC, and NORAD, which go to Defcon 4.

A major speech is made (ooc, look up the Kennedy speech made at the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis for the gist) preparing the American people for war.

US Nuclear deterrent August 1961 (as mid year, some planned replacements for 1961 are still being hurried along)
324 B52s armed with 2 Hound Dog missiles (100 kilotons each) and 2 gravity bombs (10 megatons each)
10% in the air at all times, 60% are on ground alert at all times (in the air in 15 minutes), another 30% on hour alert

144 B58s each armed with 6 air to air Genie missiles (nuclear) and 1 10 megaton gravity bomb (same alert status as above)

216 B52s also available as a reserve force (remain assigned to other missions, could be used as nuclear strike aircraft)

100 Titan II Missiles each with single 1 Megaton warhead (10% fueled at all times, 80% on 6 hour standbye, remainder undergoing maintenance) plus 130 Minuteman II missiles with 5 x MIRV 200 kiloton warheads, fully fueled and can launch immediately after target programming)

Each Heavy carrier also has 2 A6 Invader bombers (armed with 100 kiloton gravity bombs) on 1 hour alert at all times.

Each F105 and FB111 wing has 20% of its aircraft on 1 hour nuclear alert (each can carry 1 x 100 kiloton warhead or 2 smaller tactical weapons).(remaining aircraft assigned to normal conventional missions)

All submarines and escort cruisers have nuclear torpedoes (10 kiloton weapons), and ASW air units have nuclear torpedoes available.

4 nuclear powered ballistic missile submarines, each with 12 Polaris II missiles (single 1 megaton warheads). 3 at sea all times.

All Interceptor Wings have Genie nuclear air to air missiles assigned, and the National Guard and Army flak units will also have nuclear tipped Hercules missiles.

All USAF listed per this thread unless otherwise indicated in naval forces post
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10910544&postcount=4

All US Army and Marine Corps forces as listed except for 2 SF brigades, and 11th Aviation group which is in the Belgian Congo.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10910557&postcount=6

In addition to naval forces listed in naval post, the US is hurrying completion on 2 CAGNs, and preparing the USS Saratoga (the training carrier) for missions as a fleet carrier. All 4 battleships in mothballs are being looked at for possible service.

The US 1st and 2nd Armored Division and 1st Air Cavalry Division begins to prepare for airlift to meet up with equipment and vehicles stored in Australia.

US shifts forces around during the first 2 weeks of August, all forces listed here plus SAC and Air Defense Command are on a war footing (Defcon 4)

Indian Ocean 5th Fleet (assembling off Diego Garcia 200 miles to the north)
Shifted from Mediterranean Sea
CVAs Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, antiaircraft cruisers San Diego, San Antonio, 4 destroyers, 4 frigates, 2 replenishment ships, 2 1st generation SSNs Salmon, Seawolf,
Already in Indian Ocean
CVAs Ranger, Wasp, nuclear cruiser Long Beach, antiaircraft cruisers San Pedro, Duluth, 4 destroyers, 4 frigates, 2 replenishment ships, 2 1st generation SSNs Nautilus, Sailfish,

Based at Diego Garcia 1 unit Neptune maritime patrol aircraft, 1 unit USMC F4E fighter bombers, flown in by airlift, 1 flak unit plus forward deployed tankers from SAC (1 unit worth)

North Atlantic 2nd Fleet (assembling in MidAtlantic 200 miles south of Iceland)
Shifted from Eastern Pacific via Panama Canal
CVA Hornet, CVN Enterprise, escort cruisers Pensacola, Salt Lake City, anti aircraft cruisers Galveston, Los Angeles, 4 destroyers, 4 frigates. SSNs Bonefish, Sargo,
Already in the Atlantic
CVAs Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, escort cruisers Houston, Northhampton, anti aircraft cruisers Hampton, Biloxi, 4 destroyers, 4 frigates, SSNs Swordfish, Blueback

North Atlantic 10th Fleet (assembling off Eastern Seaboard)
Already in North Atlantic
CV Lake Champlain, America, Oriskany, escort cruisers Concord, Richmond, Memphis, 16 destroyers, 26 frigates

North Atlantic 4th Fleet (assembling at G-I-UK gap)
2nd generation SSNs Sturgeon, Whale, Tautog, Grayling, Pogy, Sunfish, Ray, Puffer, Queenfish, Pargo, Sand Lance, Gunard, Hammerhead, Seadevil, Hawkbill, Spadefish

Iceland / Greenland
2 P2V Neptune maritime patrol units, 48th Fighter Wing (Arrow interceptors), 1 Tanker unit from SAC, airborne early warning aircraft, Intelligence aircraft plus 2nd Infantry Division, 1 flak unit

North Pacific 3rd Fleet (assembling in the Gulf of Alaska)
Already in Pacific
Heavy carriers Yorktown, Lexington, Valley Forge, Bon Homme Richard, escort cruisers, anti aircraft cruisers Atlanta, Juneau, San Pedro, San Juan, 8 destroyers, 8 frigates, 4 replenishment ships, SSNs Grayback, Darter. Growler, Skate,

North Pacific 9th Fleet (assembling in the Bering Strait)
SSNs Bonefish, Triton, Halibut, Scamp, Sculpin, Shark, Snook, Thresher
Plus 5 large USCG cutters plus P2V Neptune patrol aircraft (1 unit) out of Dutch Harbor, plus 1 tanker unit out of Elmendorf AFB and support from Air Defense Command (1 F110 Arrow unit)

Eastern Pacific 1st Fleet (assembling off Western Seaboard)
CV Intrepid, Lake Erie,Kitty Hawk, escort cruisers Chester, Wichita, Tuscaloosa, 6 destroyers, 6 frigates, 3 replenishment ships

Southwest Pacific 7th Fleet (assembling near Samoa)
CV Constitution, Constellation, Essex , escort cruisers Indianapolis, Augusta, 6 destroyers, 6 frigates, plus RAN forces

11th Fleet (on patrol between in western Pacific north of Luzon, west of Palau and Guam and south of Iwo Jima in that general area) ( 2 on station, 1 nearly there, last still in port hurrying refit) (except for the Patrick Henry still in port, the whereabouts of the other 3 would not be known other then somewhere in either the Pacific or Indian Ocean)
SSBNs Patrick Henry, Ethan Allen, Robert E. Lee, Sam Houston

Guam / Palau airfields: 1 P2V Neptune unit, plus 27th Fighter Wing (normally stationed in New Mexico) plus AEW aircraft out of US

Korea seconds this, and assures the World it is at Alert Status only (equivalent to Defcon 2-3). The Kim Government assures the people there is no cause for alarm, and it also says that though it supports the Siberian and Caucasian minorities in this matter, both sides should take a look at the Russian proposal to the Caucasus and Siberian minorities, for it may be a good idea.

the US points to what is essentially an ultimatum issued by China to Russia and points that it didn't upgrade its alert status until after that and further upgraded its alert status after the Scandic Union upgraded theirs.

"The US government rejects Chinese claims that it is acting as the aggressor and demands (ooc, ultimatum now) that SCT and the Scandic Union immediately cease their support of rebels in the Russian Federation, which violates the UN Charter and is an act of unprovoked aggression. Otherwise, the US will be forced to act according to its treaty with Russia and come to the defense of Russia by whatever means are appropriate."

China repeats its earlier statement, but this time it is reduced to two simple points.

Point 1: China is still maintaining DEFCON 2 for all of its forces, hardly any action of an aggressor nation.

Point 2: China is *NOT* mobilizing its forces to attack any nation, and Chinese nuclear forces *WILL NOT* attack until America launches their own nukes.

Spy satellites, orbital labs, recon planes, and intelligence services can confirm all this easily.

Again, China is not attacking anyone or anything. In the meantime, the OA and USA is DEFCON 3 and rising, and they are preparing to attack someone. Now who's the aggressor?

"The US government rejects Chinese claims that it is acting as the aggressor and demands (ooc, ultimatum now) that SCT and the Scandic Union immediately cease their support of rebels in the Russian Federation, which violates the UN Charter and is an act of unprovoked aggression. Otherwise, the US will be forced to act according to its treaty with Russia and come to the defense of Russia by whatever means are appropriate."

"America has been adding fire to this since the beggining. Always moving to higher mobilization levels, shifting forces around the globe to threaten both the CSPS and the SCT, American aircraft have also now begun repeatedly violating CSPS airspace and now you give us a demand? No, Russia must cease its oppression before anything can be asked of us, how can you expect things out of us when these people are dieing and disappearing by the dozens?

We must now make it clear, we will accept no further violations of Scandic or CSPS airspace. Any military aircraft, OA or Russian in origin, will be shot down in they violate CSPS airspace. We will not allow the OA to run roughshod over our soverignty. Furthermore, we feel we must reiterate the fact that not one single gun, not one bullet or weapon of any kind ever was shipped to Siberia from Scandinavia or any CSPS nations, that is a claim we will deny to the death as it never, ever happened, though we fully support the Siberian's in their fight for freedom."


News of the American and British nuclear and chemical mobilizations is made very public and air raid and nuclear drills are practiced in Scandic cities(OOC: I have civil defense). A mad rush begins in many cities as people begin stockpiling essential supplies, clearing out many local stores, while the government is stocking up the various shelters its provided. People with family or friends in the country begin sending their children out of the cities to live away from any major targets.

The 2nd mountain brigade(Handpicked SF) is quietly packed up with nearly all of its strength being quietly deployed oversea's to Azerbaijan, the Ukraine and the Central Asian Republic to join their sister brigade, the 1st mountain.

Three mothballed cruisers(2 AA, 1 heavy missile, all tc level 7) and 4 sqaudrons of destroyers have begun reffiting with what modern systems and weaponry that can be updated on them, though they are not to be brought back into service just yet. A group of airforce officers in the CAR and Kashgaria begin inspecting recently stored aircraft in the deserts dotting those nations, and are ordered to begin preparations to bring them home to be brought back into the service. Letters have also begun going out to airline pilots, many of which are ex-military, informing them that should the crisis detiorate any further their services would be needed by the government.

Nuclear tipped missiles are deployed to airforce and flak units across Scandinavia, although they come along with explicit orders not to use unless told to directly from the top, and word that they would most likely never be used.

The navy has gone to sea, staying in the Skagerrack for now in the safety of Scandic waters. The navies nuclear attack subs have positioned themselves in the North Sea, in a position to intercept any vessels heading to Scandinavia from the Atlantic.


Last minute messages are sent tot he Russian government urging them to back down and to pull their troops out of Siberian cities(Don't know whats up with the Caucases??) and to also pull the KGB out of Siberia and the Caucases completely so that these issues can be resolved with out further terror and bloodshed being visited on the inoccents of Siberia and the Caucases. As of now no regular army units(not including the SF) have been deployed in the field, though preparations have been made to do so.


OOC: My military is in my thread, I'll send whoever is running this an ORBAT including their locations exc.

It was worth a try with Iceland.

The US denies violating anyones airspace (ooc well of course we do it, and deny it routinely, its part of the intel business, just like everyone denies we are spying on each other).

The US also again demands that China and the Scandic Union cease funding and arming rebel groups in the Russian Federation.

ooc
post order of battle information in this thread. At this point, its pretty hard to keep secrets when both sides have satellites. Specific locations can be a little vague, but as war moderator I will eventually need them. Alliance forces will not act on information they don't have. Notice that US locations are pretty specified at this point.

If nothing else, post a link in this thread so its easy to find.

OOC: All Nigerian forces are currently in Nigeria, except for one armored brigade and the light infantry division. All they need is transportation to wherever they are needed.

In the event of war, the following units would be the ones deployed overseas:

Two of the motorized divisions, the elite armored brigade, the elite marine brigade, and the HQ unit. They will be depending on allies for air cover and sea transportation.

It should be noted that all Nigerian troops are equipped with modern weapons provided by either the British (in the case of armored vehicles, etc.) and Germany (small arms). They have also recieved help from South Africa in the form of advisors.

Scandinavian and Chinese positions are deeply Criticised as they were the ones who started the crisis by violating international laws and interfering in Russian internal affairs in support of a minority seperatist group which as evidence shows wouldn't even exist if it hadn't been for forign interference.

SECRETLY: The OA is informed that if any anchoring rights are needed in France then they will be temporary granted.

FNS SSN's and SSBN's will make use of the French offer. The majority of the FNS army will remain unmobilized with an exception to the ABM portions as well as nuclear deterrant portions.

The FNS airforce rebases a wing of M-121's to Scotland, while the wing of A12's are sent to Iceland. They are instructed to harass (READ: High-speed flybys and general rattling) Scandic MiG-25's. M-52's will be stationed in the Eastern US seaboard with the capability to reach SU, Poland, or the Ukraine.

Embassy workers and diplomatic staff will NOT be removed. The FNS believes that there is a peaceful resolution to this matter waiting to be found.

In regards to China in the UN, the FNS questions whether we should have given China Manchuria back in the first place. Perhaps Hainan, Formosa, Hong Kong, Canton, Shang Hai, and etc should have their own plebecites. They are all Chinese but, we are sure they all have somewhat different cultures. Almost like Russia is majority Slavic with different cultures.

We Remind China that she fought to remove outside interferance in her affairs so why does she subject another to these pains.

Fighting breaks out in the region around Chita, Abakan and Omsk. The Russians commit an armored brigade, an infantry corps, and 3 mountain brigades overwhelm the Rebel guerillas along the border area. In Omsk, 2 mountain brigades and a mechanized division are committed, and heavy fighting breaks out, while in Abakan, 1 armored brigade and 1 infantry corps threaten to destroy the guerillas as well.

(ooc: this fighting is in progress, but the rebels around Chita are going to be overwhelmed quickly. The terrain in Chita is actually mostly steppe and scattered forests, and they haven't got a lot of cover other then retreating across the border into Mongolia).

ooc
we are approaching the point were an accident is likely. I need plans soon from everyone so I can figure out if an accident happens.

Remember accidents have triggered esculation or outright war three times this century in this RP. If an accident occurs (several happened during the Cuban Missile Crisis for example) it doesn't mean an automatic nuclear launch, but it could trigger a policy of ordering one. So players matter and how you handle what happens next.

The Three FNS fleets will move to support the three US ASW fleets in the North Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Oceans.

The Three FNS fleets will move to support the three US ASW fleets in the North Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Oceans.

the FNS 1st Fleet links up with the US 10th Fleet of the Eastern Seaboard, the FNS 2nd Fleet links up with the US 7th Fleet in the Southern Pacific (near Fiji) and the FNS 3rd Fleet links up with the US 1st Fleet near the US West Coast to provide additional air and ASW defenses.

Shipping companies from the Oceanic Alliance and associated powers are informed to expect convoy instructions should fighting break out.

Fighting breaks out in the region around Chita, Abakan and Omsk. The Russians commit an armored brigade, an infantry corps, and 3 mountain brigades overwhelm the Rebel guerillas along the border area. In Omsk, 2 mountain brigades and a mechanized division are committed, and heavy fighting breaks out, while in Abakan, 1 armored brigade and 1 infantry corps threaten to destroy the guerillas as well.

(ooc: this fighting is in progress, but the rebels around Chita are going to be overwhelmed quickly. The terrain in Chita is actually mostly steppe and scattered forests, and they haven't got a lot of cover other then retreating across the border into Mongolia).

incidently, figure if the guerillas are crushed, they will evolve into terrorist organizations most likely

OOC: LR, I know your busy, but I need a Caucas update, a lot of what I'm doing depends on them.

OOC: I think I posted earlier that several uprisings of rebels have occured (4 units worth) but not much else, funding is less than the Siberians have had.

we are approaching the point were an accident is likely. I need plans soon from everyone so I can figure out if an accident happens.

British situation: DEFCON 2, no call up of reserves or TA units.

Missiles

150 ICBMs, 100 large ICBMs, 240 improved IRBMs, all in silos on East and Southern Coasts of UK, 10% ready and fuelled at all times (with solid fuel systems), 80% ready for rapid deployment in cases of alert, remaining 10% undergoing maintenance.

Fleets

Carriers in Home and Pacific Fleets have been issued with 2 nuclear bombs each for use if informed directly from London.

Fleet strengths can be found on my thread.

Deployment as follows

Home Fleet
To begin extensive patrols in North Sea, particularly following any suspected sub traces and passing info to British attack subs.

Atlantic Fleet
Moved to be stationed out of Portsmouth to act as a reinforcement to the Home Fleet and to watch the Channel and Southern North Sea.

Carribean Fleet
To transfer to Atlantic to cover patrols of Southern Atlantic (Falklands, South Georgia, Cape etc) left by Atlantic Fleet

Mediterranean Fleet
Majority of fleet stripped to reinforce Home Fleet, leaving 80 missile boats behind at Cyprus and Gibralter to maintain customs patrols.

Pacific Fleet
To liase with and support US 1st and 7th fleets, advised to follow orders of any senior OA naval officers.

Indian Ocean Fleet
To cover routine patrols of Southern Pacific left by Pacific Fleet.

Nuclear Submarines
3 ballistics subs, in North Sea, 2 to be ready at all times, 1 off duty at port, to be rotated.
7 2nd gen attack subs, 5 on patrol, 2 in port, to be rotated.
2 ballistics subs in mothball at Portsmouth, being brought back into service.

Army Assets

BEF recalled from Rwanda to be replaced by 3rd division to be transferred from Belize. Cover to be provided by a new Kenyan division prior to arrival of 3rd division.

All army air support assets (3 helicopters (transports) and pilots, 3 helicopters (cargo) and pilots, 3 helicopters (gunships) and pilots) to be centralised in Southern England.

Territorial Army Reserves not yet called up (will be if DEFCON 3 is reached).

Army to switch from Carl Gustav to US Super Bazooka for AT support as ammunition supply for CG likely to be compromised.

RAF

All interceptor units to begin patrols of North Sea. Bombers to start intensive practices and at least 25% to be ready on alert. Avro Arrow unit to begin shadowing any Scandic forces detected by RADAR network and to show some of its fast flying capabilities, though pilots informed not to get involved in any potentially dangerous aerobatics.

RAF Reserve pilots to be called up at DEFCON 3.

We Remind China that she fought to remove outside interferance in her affairs so why does she subject another to these pains.

China points out to the FNS that China has *NOT* mobilized any of its forces and has *NOT* elevated its DEFCON levels unlike nearly the rest of the world, and has not invaded or attacked Russia in any way.

The gurriellas and such causing trouble in Siberia are Siberians, not Chinese.

China points out to the FNS that China has *NOT* mobilized any of its forces and has *NOT* elevated its DEFCON levels unlike nearly the rest of the world, and has not invaded or attacked Russia in any way.

The gurriellas and such causing trouble in Siberia are Siberians, not Chinese.

OOC: Not funded by the Chinese either. In fact China has very little to do with this and you're all jumping to the conclusion that it's him that's responsible.
China was one of the ones that genuinely wanted the Siberians to be free.
(All completely OOC of course)

OOC: Any news on the plan for the Causcaus? And to Kordo, bloodthirstiness for the sake of bloodthirstiness isn't my style. There needs to be victory involved. Don't worry though, Russia won't become an oversized Switzerland.

IC:

Russia will address the independence issues one final time for all to hear. The root cause of these issues is Russia's sheer size. As nations like Pakistan, America, and China know, having many ethnic groups in the same area can cause issues. Trying to create a comprehensive education system, tax system, and other policies is difficult. Many people feel the government cannot adequately represent their needs, especially in Siberia, which has few seats in the Duma. However, there is strength in numbers, an ideal that many nations were founded on. Scandanavia, the FNS, and once Gran Colombia, Pakistan, the CAR, UIR, USEA, Nigeria, and the United States are all examples of this. We offered those areas that are largely composed of other ethnic groups options to leave, or remain in Russia while recieving the ability to maintain their own affairs.

Siberia has never been denied representation in the Duma. The people who came before the General Assembly lost campaigns for seats, but Republicans in America were not rewarded with their own country when they lost control of the White House.

However, tensions have been brought too high by all sides. If our neighbors in Europe can lower thier alert levels (to DEFCON 2) we will match those levels. However, EHC must remain at DEFCON 4 until military operations there can cease. We cannot allow armed rebels to actively seize control over our nation, as nations who sent peacekeepers in the FAS's civil war surely understand, as do those who had to fight off communist guerillas. Letting communist forces take over one of the most resource-rich areas in the world is not a good idea. However, once rebel factions are disarmed, we will lower our status again.

OOC: Not funded by the Chinese either. In fact China has very little to do with this and you're all jumping to the conclusion that it's him that's responsible.
China was one of the ones that genuinely wanted the Siberians to be free.
(All completely OOC of course)

ooc
it serves US purposes to blame China and the Scandic Union, simplifies things for public opinion

Japanese forces were edited slightly

IC:

The Japanese fleet has left Yokohoma and is currently outside the port, but not within nuclear fallout range

All Japanese shipping and cikilians in OA nations are ordered to leave. Embassies evacuated all civilians, then were redced to skeleton crews in each embassy.

The Oceanic Alliance formerly extends offers of membership to Russia, along with several other nations (ooc see Oceanic Alliance thread)

---ANN News Update---

In light of the recent events the Abbot of the largest Buddhist monastary in Saigon has reportedly visted Prime Minister Yen Mai Tuyet in her private rooms at the Federal Palace.
Prime Minister Tuyet is a very devout Buddhist and the two have apparently been talking for hours, though the subject of thier conversation is unknown at this time it is believed to be focused on current relations with the West.


In other news mobilisations of Army units has stopped and high level military sources say that a full standown may be on the horizon, however several units of the 1st strategic......


President Phirun Sunan of the USEA turned the radio off. He continued to pace the room, his younger colleuage had shut herself in her quarters with that damned monk for over three hours now. This was a crisis how could she be wasting time praying now?
Several military aides alternately rushed in to give huim updates on the developing situation, damn this was going to get messy.

Inside her private quarters Yen Mai Tuyet sat cross legged acros from the old Abbot while around her incense burned and the small altar and pictures for Buddhist meditation were iluminated by the flickering candles.
The Abbot breathed in heavily, inhaling the sweet smelling incense.

"You know you must do what you feel is right my Child, follow your heart and stay true to your belief and we may yet servive this crises."

Yen Mai hung her head.

"I know Father, but what I am I to do if what I choose is wrong and we all suffer for it?"

The Abbot gave her a stern look.

"We all have to take responsability for our actions, much more so in your position of great power."

The Prime Minister sighed, her choice was difficult and both choices would have possibly terrifying consequences. Staring into the guttering flames of the firelight she knew what she must do. Some time passed.

"I know what I must do Father, and I will do it now."

The Abbot smiled warmly.

"Good, desciveness is always best after making a difficult descision, I only hope the choice you have made is the right one, for if it is not, the we if not the whole world will be doomed because of it."

Yen Mai grimaced at this as she rose and went for the door. Gracefully the Abbot got up in a single motion and followed her. After going into the Waiting room she turned to the old man.

"I have enjoyed our talk Father and look forward to when we will be able to talk again."

The Abbot smiled.

"As do I my Child and I can only hope that the world is in a better state when we do next talk."

With that he stode down the hall where two waiting monk were to escort him back the monastery.
President Sunan scolwed at his retreating shape.

"Care to tell me what that was all about Yen Mai?"

The Prime Minister sighed again.

"Not now Phirun, but in good time." She turned to an aid "Get the news crews and and put them in the conference room, I need to make a very important announcement."

The President did a double take.

"You can't do that! We will be ruined, everything will be ruined!"

Yen Mai Whipped round.

"I can and I will Phirun, this is the only way."

The President gave an angry shout and stormed out of the room. Leaving his Prime Minister alone in the room. She quickly composed herself for her coming task and the ineveitable bombardment that would follow.




The Conference room's simple wood panels and white washed walls were lit up harshly by the litghs for the television cameras. Stepping onto the podium and into their glare Yen Mai felt like her final judgement had come, her small frame was seemingly engulfed by the silence as the people gathered in the room waited for her to speak.

"Lately the world in which we live has become an increasingly tense and hostile place due the actions of several nations We are building inevietably to a point where we will also suffer equally no matter our colour, creed or nationality.
I have decided that it has to stop and that there is only one way to achieve this. The truth must be told.
There have been accusations against some of our allies and friends that have been meddling with the afairs of other nations, more specifically Russia.
Such accusations are grave and serious and I can tell you now, false.

The accusations against our great allies such as China are false because they are directed at the wrong party. It has in fact been Indochina behind the rise of the Siberian Sepratists.
We have since 1956 supplied them with funds to mount the political campaign fo independance and recently their guerilla campaign against the Russian governement.
In hindsight such actions should never have been taken and I can tell you know they were carried out on my explicit orders.
I come before you today to apologize to the people of the world, the people of Indochina and most especially to the people of Russia who have been most affected by this situation. I also take complete and sole responsibility for the acts carried out under my command.
I stress that our Allies in China though they had knowledge of our activities had nothing to do with it. Their scape goating by the Americans and their allies is despicable but no more despicable than the acts that Indochina has carried out.
Once again I completely give my apologies to the Russian people whom I have harmed and my own people and country which I have failed.
I am fully prepared to accept the consequences of my actions and as of this moment the Armed forces are undergoing a complete stand down to normal alertness.

I also apeal to the UN to through out the resolution to censure China as it can be proven that they are not responsible. It would be crime worse than the ones I have commited to punish them for what they have not done.

Thank you and good evening."

With that Prime Minister Yen Mai Tuyet stepped off the podium and retreated through a door, leaving her audiance in the onference room and nationwide in silence.


Meanwhile a general stand down order is issued to all units of the armed forces, the battlegroup in the Bearing sea is ordered to hold position for the time being but not to do anything else unless explicitly ordered.

OOC: It might be a little late to take the heat for us...

OOC: It might be a little late to take the heat for us...

ooc
not necessarily as it meets at least part of the US demands (stop interfering in Russia).

IC
The US State Department official in a press conference admits that the USAE admission of responsbility and apparent decision to end support of Siberian rebels should help things substantially. But unless China agrees to prevent funds and arms reaching Siberian rebels through their territory (de facto sponsering) and the Scandic Union does the same (apologizes and ceases its actions), the situation remains tense.

The Scandic Union will not apologize for something it did not do, we told you before and we will say it now again, not one single weapon has been shipped from the Scandic Union to Russia, not one, and so we will not apologize for what is happening in Russia. It is America and Russia who should apoligize to the Scandic Union and China for falsifieing evidence and escalating tensions in the aim of blackening the names of both China and the SU. As far as demoblizing, the Scandic Union will demoblize once FNS submarines are removed from Europe and European waters, America and Britian both demoblize and Russia puts a temporary halt on the military campaigns in Siberia.

OOC: I'll get my deployments edited in here and some orders to GB tonight.

The Scandic Union will not apologize for something it did not do, we told you before and we will say it now again, not one single weapon has been shipped from the Scandic Union to Russia, not one, and so we will not apologize for what is happening in Russia. It is America and Russia who should apoligize to the Scandic Union and China for falsifieing evidence and escalating tensions in the aim of blackening the names of both China and the SU. As far as demoblizing, the Scandic Union will demoblize once FNS submarines are removed from Europe and European waters, America and Britian both demoblize and Russia puts a temporary halt on the military campaigns in Siberia.

OOC: I'll get my deployments edited in here and some orders to GB tonight.

The US point blank and bluntly refuses to cater to Scandic Union demands, and also asks how British submarines could possibily leave European waters as Britian is in Europe?

As far as indicating whether US submarines are in European waters, the US refuses to confirm or deny such information as it is sensative, but does point out that under the UN law of the sea treaty, all nations have the right to operate any ship in international waters.

Meanwhile, American interceptors out of Iceland begin shadowing any Scandic aircraft found within 200 miles of that island.

ooc
based on orders I have received, someone is going to start shooting any minute now. Figure the first armed incident by August 21.

ooc:
based on orders I have received, someone is going to start shooting any minute now. Figure the first armed incident by August 21.

OOC: Which idot did that?!
I will tell you one thing Indochina and Burma are having nothing to do with it, intimdation and bluffing are fine but a fricking war?
I if their Asian I will nuke the bastards myself :p

*Looks meaningfully at the Scandics*

OOC: Which idot did that?!
I will tell you one thing Indochina and Burma are having nothing to do with it, intimdation and bluffing are fine but a fricking war?
I if their Asian I will nuke the bastards myself :p

*Looks meaningfully at the Scandics*

I didn't do anything.

By the way, a big thank you to Ato-Sara for trying to stop all this!

OOC
Naming conventions. If this thing does explode, I suggest the following for convienence.

1st Great War is renamed the Great War (as it involved only Europe)
2nd Great War renamed World War I (the one in the 1920s, involved Europe, part of Asia and a lot of Africa)
3rd Great War renamed World War II (the one in the 1930s/40s)(involved the entire Pacific, Atlantic, part of the Indian Ocean, all of Eurasia, and touched North America, Australia, South America, and parts of Africa)

This one called World War III (because how can we possibly call a big war like this anything but World War III... World War IV is so awkward)

incidently, I will not comment on who gave what orders until all orders are received

OOC
Naming conventions. If this thing does explode, I suggest the following for convienence.

1st Great War is renamed the Great War (as it involved only Europe)
2nd Great War renamed World War I (the one in the 1920s, involved Europe, part of Asia and a lot of Africa)
3rd Great War renamed World War II (the one in the 1930s/40s)(involved the entire Pacific, Atlantic, part of the Indian Ocean, all of Eurasia, and touched North America, Australia, South America, and parts of Africa)

This one called World War III (because how can we possibly call a big war like this anything but World War III... World War IV is so awkward)

incidently, I will not comment on who gave what orders until all orders are received

do you need orders from me or after the fighting starts?

do you need orders from me or after the fighting starts?

I seriously suggest the SCT stay out of this as much as it can, we don't attack unless we get attacked.

That way we get to spend all our precious points on getting to the moon first Yay!!

ooc: this is soooo bad...

IC: The Australian government directs the RAN 1st and 2nd Fleets to move to Darwin and Ambon respectively. Airforce reserves are called up and 300 F4 Phantoms will be patrolling the northwestern third of the continent on as continual a basis as possible.

The revelation of USEA meddling in Siberia is granted with mixed reactions by the nation, though there is a general feeling of relief that somebody would step forward. Yen Mai's honesty wins points. However, it is becoming apparent that the nation has less influence on world events than it would like.

Appeals are made in the UN again for nations to come to their senses. In particular, a direct plea is made to China (along with commendation for being so sensible in staying at lower alert levels), in the hope that the special Aussie-Sino relationship may be worth something.

I seriously suggest the SCT stay out of this as much as it can, we don't attack unless we get attacked.

That way we get to spend all our precious points on getting to the moon first Yay!!

I'm guessing that the orders will include that something to us will hapen. My guess:
Russian forces get overzeolous and roll over the border, followed by a Chinese response

I'm guessing that the orders will include that something to us will hapen. My guess:
Russian forces get overzeolous and roll over the border, followed by a Chinese response
In which case we would have to attack Russia.
However I suggest we try to stay as neutral as possible whilst keeping our alertness in tune to the situation around us.

In other words no aggressive moves or pre-emptive strikes.

do you need orders from me or after the fighting starts?

For now, I am assuming nations on defcon 1 or 2 are not going to shoot unless shot at. You and others have posted most of your movements in the thread, which is good enough for me. Nations on Defcon 3 or higher are more likely taking aggressive action (like shadowing each others warships and trying for firing solutions etc) which could very likely involve someone firing a weapon. I am assuming only conventional weapons will be used unless specifically indicated otherwise.

IC
The following information is picked up by Russian, US, German and SCT satellites:

A unit of Scandic Mig25's and a Lansen unit is moved to the far East Ukraine.

On August 21 the following occurs:
Russia complains of Scandic Mig 25 recon flights over the Caucas region, progessively becoming bolder to the point where they will fly low flash Scandic and CSPS colors to Caucasian civilians below. Russia indicates that so far they have not opened fire, but will do so if it continues.

A US SR71, flying over the North Sea and Barents Sea very close (but arguably in international waters) is shot at by SAMs and Scandic Mig25s, but is not damaged.

A FNS fighter operating out of Iceland collides with a Scandic Tu95 over the Atlantic, 150 miles east of Iceland. Both planes crash into the sea in heavy wave conditions. Although several crew are picked up by Icelandic and Portuguese fishing vessels in the area, none of the aircrew survived the icy waters of the North Atlantic by the time they are picked up.

In the Western Pacific, a Japanese patrol plane has engine trouble, and is forced to ditch. US air sea rescue aircraft out of Guam pick up the crew and return them to the US Naval Air Station at Yokohoma.

An American RC135 dissappears over the Northern Pacific. Cause of the loss is unknown. (ooc just bad luck in poor weather).

A radar anamoly causes the RAF to detect what appears to be a low flying bomber moving at high speed toward Scapa Flow. A flight of Lightning Interceptors rushes to meet the bogey, but doesn't find it. It turns out to be a technical failure at the detecting station.

For now, I am assuming nations on defcon 1 or 2 are not going to shoot unless shot at. You and others have posted most of your movements in the thread, which is good enough for me. Nations on Defcon 3 or higher are more likely taking aggressive action (like shadowing each others warships and trying for firing solutions etc) which could very likely involve someone firing a weapon. I am assuming only conventional weapons will be used unless specifically indicated otherwise.

IC
The following information is picked up by Russian, US, German and SCT satellites:

A unit of Scandic Mig25's and a Lansen unit is moved to the far East Ukraine.

On August 21 the following occurs:
Russia complains of Scandic Mig 25 recon flights over the Caucas region, progessively becoming bolder to the point where they will fly low flash Scandic and CSPS colors to Caucasian civilians below. Russia indicates that so far they have not opened fire, but will do so if it continues.

A US SR71, flying over the North Sea and Barents Sea very close (but arguably in international waters) is shot at by SAMs and Scandic Mig25s, but is not damaged.

A FNS fighter operating out of Iceland collides with a Scandic Tu95 over the Atlantic, 150 miles east of Iceland. Both planes crash into the sea in heavy wave conditions. Although several crew are picked up by Icelandic and Portuguese fishing vessels in the area, none of the aircrew survived the icy waters of the North Atlantic by the time they are picked up.

In the Western Pacific, a Japanese patrol plane has engine trouble, and is forced to ditch. US air sea rescue aircraft out of Guam pick up the crew and return them to the US Naval Air Station at Yokohoma.

An American RC135 dissappears over the Northern Pacific. Cause of the loss is unknown. (ooc just bad luck in poor weather).

A radar anamoly causes the RAF to detect what appears to be a low flying bomber moving at high speed toward Scapa Flow. A flight of Lightning Interceptors rushes to meet the bogey, but doesn't find it. It turns out to be a technical failure at the detecting station.

*starts playing jaws theme music*

USEA is at DEFCON 1 for nuclear and for conventional

China pleads to the global community to stop this madness, especially that the true culprit of the Siberian situation has been identified. The USEA stepped forward and accepted responibility for its actions, as well as apologizing to the Russian people. As the Westerners would say, "It takes a big man to admit he's wrong and to make amends for them".

China has consistently kept its forces away from the Siberian border, and have yet to mobilize them. We also have not been supplying the Siberians with weapons and material, and there are no Chinese mercenaries or soldiers operating in Siberia.

China is still at DEFCON 2 (for its nuclear and conventional forces). In addition, the closest Chinese force to Siberia would be in Harbin and Ulaanbaatar (Mongolian capital) of both are roughly 500 kilometers away from the Russian border.

China will watch its borders with the USEA more carefully for any smuggled arms shipments or the like. We do not want the situation to escalate any further, especially with the threat of nuclear armageddon hanging over our heads.

China pleads to the global community to stop this madness, especially that the true culprit of the Siberian situation has been identified. The USEA stepped forward and accepted responibility for its actions, as well as apologizing to the Russian people. As the Westerners would say, "It takes a big man to admit he's wrong and to make amends for them".

China has consistently kept its forces away from the Siberian border, and have yet to mobilize them. We also have not been supplying the Siberians with weapons and material, and there are no Chinese mercenaries or soldiers operating in Siberia.

China is still at DEFCON 2 (for its nuclear and conventional forces). In addition, the closest Chinese force to Siberia would be in Harbin and Ulaanbaatar (Mongolian capital) of both are roughly 500 kilometers away from the Russian border.

China will watch its borders with the USEA more carefully for any smuggled arms shipments or the like. We do not want the situation to escalate any further, especially with the threat of nuclear armageddon hanging over our heads.

Australia echoes this sentiment. The nation also remains at DEFCON 2 for all military forces and it is our hope and prayer that other countries will return to this level soon.

Russia complains of Scandic Mig 25 recon flights over the Caucas region, progessively becoming bolder to the point where they will fly low flash Scandic and CSPS colors to Caucasian civilians below. Russia indicates that so far they have not opened fire, but will do so if it continues.



"It is very pleasent to have your airspace violated is it? Now that you know how we have fealt for the past two weeks we ask that you do not allow American aircraft flying from Russian airfields to continue flagrant violations of Scandic airspace."



A FNS fighter operating out of Iceland collides with a Scandic Tu95 over the Atlantic, 150 miles east of Iceland. Both planes crash into the sea in heavy wave conditions. Although several crew are picked up by Icelandic and Portuguese fishing vessels in the area, none of the aircrew survived the icy waters of the North Atlantic by the time they are picked up.


"Again, we must point out the blatant harrasment of our aircraft in INTERNATIONAL and Scandic airspace, and this event proves just how bad it is. How close did that OA fighter have to get to have collided with it? We must demand that our airspace be respected, the OA, and specifically America is trying to force war upon the world by invading our airspace with military aircraft, something that is an act of war. We are warning you now, we will respect Russian and all other OA airspaces and we must demand the same respect from America, we will not allow American military aircraft to violate our aispace and endanger our people. You have been proven once to be a warmongering nation by falsifying evidence against us and the Chinese to turn the world against us and now you are working this angle."

Scandic forces have moved down to Defcon 3 but orders remain to not allow any further violations of Scandic airspace.

The US points out that US intelligence gathering aircraft do not have to violate anyones airspace, they have sufficient capability to obtain information while over international airspace. US aircraft were flying over Russian airspace, which is an allied state to the US and with permission from Russia.

The US also provides radar data and voice transmissions confirming that the the FNS aircraft did not purposely enter the flight path of the Scandic aircraft and the crash was due to pilot error by one or both pilots (ooc: data isn't conclusive enough to blame anyone).

We would like to apologize to the Chinese government and people. Our best intelligence agents could not accurately track the situation, and even the American CIA failed. We will withdraw all support for censure motions in the United Nations, and will seek to make amends. However, we would ask for some cooperation on this issue.

We hope to continue talks with the various groups in the Causcaus and the Tuva people. Regardless of the cause of these rebellions, the root causes are something we feel must be addressed. We hope to begin voting early next year.

In Siberia, we will lower mobilization once counter-terrorism operations have ceased. We hope to be lowered to DEFCON 3 by October 1st, and DEFCON 2 by year's end. We regret having to ask this, especially given recent events, but we would ask Korea, the Central Asian Republic, and China to be wary of terrorists fleeing over the border, and to apprehend any they might

As to accusations of forgery, our information, as we stated earlier, was tracked to government agents in major Chinese port cities. Our agents, and American ones, likely believed them to be Chinese, mistaking them due to the conditions. We will immediately begin an investigation into why this was allowed to happen, and punish those responsible.

-Meanwhile-
The Central Court and Prime Minister return to Moscow. However, the Duma and Cabinet remain hidden.

evening August 22, 1961
Just when tensions are easing....

In the North Sea, a British SSN shadowing a Scandic SSN is fired upon. It fires back. Both torpedoes hit, and both submarines are lost.

In the Mid Atlantic, an American submarine finds a Scandic SSBN, and regretably, at that particular moment, the Scandic SSBN is conducting a firing drill and is near the surface. Mistaking the intentions of the Scandic SSN, the American submarine nearly fires, before the commander decides to verify the situation and also pings the Scandic SSBN with active sonar. The Scandic submarine hurriedly returns to moderate depth while the US commandere clarifies his instructions. An accident is narrowly averted.

(above based on real incidents, except in the British / Scandic SSN case, the 2 submarines collided instead of fired on one another. Both suffered serious damage)

In the Pacific, the USS Thresher dissappears in the far north while transiting the Bering Strait. (ooc: another historical accident)

The US points out that US intelligence gathering aircraft do not have to violate anyones airspace, they have sufficient capability to obtain information while over international airspace. US aircraft were flying over Russian airspace, which is an allied state to the US and with permission from Russia.

The US also provides radar data and voice transmissions confirming that the the FNS aircraft did not purposely enter the flight path of the Scandic aircraft and the crash was due to pilot error by one or both pilots (ooc: data isn't conclusive enough to blame anyone).


If US intelligence aircraft do not have to violate Scandic airspace to do their jobs then they shouldn't be invading our airspace on a daily basis unless they are doing so for no other reason then to antaganize the SU.

The Scandic Union has already begun slowly demoblizing, a step we have not seen in our American and OA counterparts. And even after it was proven that Scandinavia was not involved in Siberia despite all the "evidence" presented to the UN we have still not recieved an apology though the Chinese have, instead America has demanded an apology from us, while continuing to move forces into position to threaten the SU. Those are not the actions or words of a peacefull nation. Even Russia is standing down, why not America or Britian?

The Ukrainian airforce joins the SU airforce in safeguarding CSPS territory from any further incursions. The Ukraine's army is on standby, mostly at the Russian border, in case there is an abrupt incursion by the Russian army. However, these forces are not on the same alert as the rest of the army, considering that the Russian military appears to be standing down somewhat. Regardless, the Ukrainian army still remains mobilized. The rhetoric of the Ukrainian government has been toned down somewhat, but reminds the Russian government that the road through peace lies through self-determination for the Siberian and Caucasian people.

evening August 22, 1961
Just when tensions are easing....

In the North Sea, a British SSN shadowing a Scandic SSN is fired upon. It fires back. Both torpedoes hit, and both submarines are lost.



OOC: Do we know what hapened?

Also, any updates on the 4 guerilla units in the Caucases and the 4 in Siberia?

One Siberian guerilla was put down (Chita), the other three are works in progress. Negotiations are underway with Caucasian leaders.

With the downgrading of USEA's DEFCON 1 and the inevitable return of USEA ships to their home bases, the Chinese subs are ordered to follow the USEA fleet back home. Explict instructions are given to sail home in full force so to ensure that no rogue subs or accidents occur. Any OA subs shadowing the Chinese subs are gently reminded that the Chinese subs are returning "home" with the USEA fleet, and that the Chinese subs wish no hostile action.

OOC: Do we know what hapened?

Also, any updates on the 4 guerilla units in the Caucases and the 4 in Siberia?

All sonar and listening devices would show is that both fired, and both died. Sequence would be hard to determine at this tech level (if possible at all, not enough computer power available).

Reports from the Atlantic did come in right away though, and were rushed to National Command Authorities.

The dissappearance of the Thresher isn't immediately known (it will be in another 24 hours though)

Meanwhile, US and British ASW aircraft begin to lavishly use sonar bouys and helicopter dipping sonar to track and push Scandic submarines that approach shipping lanes, and extra effort is made to find SSBNs.

American submarines and the 10th Fleet and its ASW carriers and Neptunes from Iceland continue to heavily patrol the G-I-UK gap.

Plans for building a SOSUS to cover the gap are pushed forward (although no money for it this year).

Kennedy, in a press conference confirms that relations with the SCT are improving and the brink of war with them seems to have averted.

He further remarks that "However, tensions with the Scandic Union remain high. Military movements in the Ukraine, Poland and the Scandic Union itself, as well as the Scandic Union's refusal to end its support of rebels in the Caucasus region continue to remain at impasse."

US forces in the Pacific go on lesser alert status, from Defcon 3 to Defcon 2. The 1st and 7th Fleets begin steaming for Panama. The 5th Fleet in Indian Ocean however, transits the Suez Canal and enters the Eastern Mediterranean.(where it is renamed the 6th Fleet)

The 3rd Fleet spreads out to cover normal peacetime patrol positions in the western and central Pacific.

Evacuation of Japanese bases ends.

An unofficial back channel apology is given to China, although China is asked to ensure in the future its allies (in this case USAE) doesn't accidently trigger a war.

The FNS Nigeria and Nigeria's four destroyers are ordered north to England to join up with the English fleet.

An official apology is given to China in the best tone possible, French Submarines are to patrol the English Channel (Extreme north of it)

The SANS Johannesburg and Drakensberg, along with six destroyers, are ordered to the north Atlantic to supplement the British fleets there. A letter of apology from President van Aarten is hand-delivered by the South African ambassador in Bejing to the Chinese President.

SIC:
The SANS Voortrekker secures from general quarters and the frequency of fueling drills decreases. The submarine, however, remains in the Indian Ocean.

With word that the South Africans are sending their own ships north, the Nigerian flotilla is ordered to rendevous with them off of Nigeria and proceed with them instead of going alone. It is thought that the two countries' ships might be able to run some drills while under way.

In the North Sea, a British SSN shadowing a Scandic SSN is fired upon. It fires back. Both torpedoes hit, and both submarines are lost.

The British Ministry of Communications (OOC: read propaganda) prepares the following statement which is read by Prime Minister Harold Macmillan to the nation via TV and Radio:

"People of Britain, it is my sad duty to report to you that I have just recieved information relating to the loss of one of the Royal Navy's Churchill Class Submarines. These sad events occured late yesterday afternoon. The vessel in question was HMS Courageous who was sunk by a torpedo whilst trailing a similar Scandic vessel, which the Admiralty had reason to believe posed a severe threat to the safety of this kingdom, this vessel is also believed to have been destroyed. British search and rescue vessels have combed the scene of the action but unfortunately have been forced to conclude that all 103 souls on board were lost in the attack. All next of kin have been informed.

"I have sent several pressing telegrams to the Scandic parliament and have been in contact with the Scandic embassy in London. If I do not receive a full apology and stated intent to cease these probing submarine missions in the North Sea then I shall have no alternative but to upgrade the alert level of the Royal Navy and increase Anti-Submarine patrols in the North Sea region for this nation's safety.

"This nation has not stood through two world wars and for almost 1000 years free of a foreign ruler (OOC: Purposely ignoring the German Royal Family here...) to be attacked in such a cowardly manner. I urge all citizens to support the nation through this difficult time and to remain strong. We shall not be cowed by such a heartless attack on this nations sovereignity resulting in the loss of 103 of her finest men. I am sure that I speak for all of us when I say that our prayers go out to the families of the young seamen lost in yesterday's sad events and to hope for a timely response from the Scandic government."

OOC: Britain is to upgrade naval units to DEFCON 3 whether or not a response is received.

I also understand that no-one knows who shot first due to tech limitations but I am going to claim that the Scandics attacked (which they actually did!).

South African and Nigerian additions contributions to the guarding of the North Sea are welcomed and their vessels will take pride of place amongst the vessels of the Home Fleet.

OOC: British Deployements for Siberian Crisis (based on what I posted a few days ago and so should be in effect shortly) can be found on my thread below:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=482051

The Japanese forces are moved from Defense level 3 to Defense level 2, and the fleet isordered to stay where it is

We would like to remind the Polish people that while some groups are mobilizing, Russia is decreasing alert status.

Korea moves its status to Normalcy (equivalent to DEFCON 1-2) and cancels round-the-clock IKN and IKAF patrols around Korea's shores, seeing as how things are starting to cool off.

OOC: Chatzy has returned, so I would suggest each major bloc (SCT, CSPS, the good guys) get rooms and discuss

ooc
a potentially useful map
http://www.geographicguide.com/arctic/arctic-map.gif

OOC: Chatzy has returned, so I would suggest each major bloc (SCT, CSPS, the good guys) get rooms and discuss

linky?
EDIT- why did you mention us twice? You didn't have to say SCT and good guys

www.chatzy.com

If you use a search engine it appears to be down until you click the link.

Scandic forces continue standing down with conventional forces making taking another step down to Defcon 2, but the airforce, submarine force and nuclear arm only move down to 3. The surface fleet is ordered back to port, although they never left Scandic waters to begin with.

A message is quickly sent off to the British government after news comes in of the sinkings stating Scandinavia's sorrow that so many British and Scandic lives were lost needlessly, and the hope that the event would not impede the movement towards peace. Britian is reminded that the Scandic Union had started demoblizing days before the incident(I moved from 4 to 3) and informs the British government that the Scandic Union is in no way interested in sparking a war with Britian.

What isn't mentioned is the fact that is was the British sub that snuck up on the Scandic SSN in an area no where near British waters. The remaining SSN's and SSK's in the North Sea(Their normal patrol area's anyway, even in Peacetime) are retold that they are to avoid OA shipping, an order they had since the crisis' beggining.

With the SU's standown, Russia moves WHC and CHC to DEFCON 2.

The Kingdom of Bulgaria sends a return order to the Chinese government for any mistakes that we made during this crisis and hopes to improve relations with Beijing in the coming years. Obviously, we had no intent on attacking any nation unless they would pose a threat to us or any other friendly nation...

US Nuclear forces stand down from Defcon 4 to Defcon 2. US conventional forces remain at Defcon 3 for now, and US air defenses remain at Defcon 4 for now.

It becomes clear that a US submarine is missing in the Bering Sea, and US forces begin an extensive search after the emergency locater buoy is discovered (ooc it will take a few days to find the actual wreckage of the submarine)

um, just for u to all know, defcon 1 is the highest you can be (maximum force readiness) and down to defcon 5 (normal peacetime readiness).

I think some of you had it wrong way, and i was trying to help

um, just for u to all know, defcon 1 is the highest you can be (maximum force readiness) and down to defcon 5 (normal peacetime readiness).

I think some of you had it wrong way, and i was trying to help

ooc
I realized that (yesterday), but it to avoid confusion by changing it, keep it the way its posted for the duration of this crisis

Britain acknowledges the Scandic message and reduction in DECON levels and promises to reduce the fleet to DECON 2 (or DEFCON 4 now I suppose). Britain enters into correspondence with the SU with reference to declaring the two wrecks an internationally acknowledged war grave site which will prohibit diving/souviner hunting/other desecrations. Which will also conveniently safeguard any sensitive or secret material that was onboard and prevent possible damage to nuclear weapons or reactors on board.

OOC: British deployments return to usual, though the Home fleet and submarines remain in the North Sea. See my thread for details as usual.

US reduces its readiness to Defcon 2 for conventional forces, and Defcon 1 for nuclear forces. Air defenses remain at Defcon 2 however.

US Navy returns to normal peacetime deployments, as do intelligence gathering aircraft (ending provacative probing the Scandic defenses)

The US enters into talks with Russia to increases its forces in Russia from a couple of air bases used for training. The US wants to deploy an armored cavalry regiment and preposition equipment for 6 divisions in Russia.

ooc
since it looks like war is averted, I suggest Lesser Ribenia go ahead and handle fighting in Russia (as its a counterinsurgency operation)

should things flare up again, I can assist or take over referee duties.

At this point its September 7, 1961, but we should be able to return to normal time frames on Monday (start of 1962)

since it looks like war is averted, I suggest Lesser Ribenia go ahead and handle fighting in Russia (as its a counterinsurgency operation)

Will do, is there a post somewhere detailing Russian forces committed to the fighting?

Fighting breaks out in the region around Chita, Abakan and Omsk. The Russians commit an armored brigade, an infantry corps, and 3 mountain brigades overwhelm the Rebel guerillas along the border area. In Omsk, 2 mountain brigades and a mechanized division are committed, and heavy fighting breaks out, while in Abakan, 1 armored brigade and 1 infantry corps threaten to destroy the guerillas as well.

That's it, I think.

That's it, I think.

thats the one

IC
The US Navy finds the wreckage of the Thresher, and it becomes clear that the loss of the ship was not due to enemy action.

Meanwhile, in the North Sea, radiation leakage is less then feared from the 2 lost submarines as their reactors shut down after they were sunk. Local radiation makes salvage extremely risky and the deep depth (400 feet) makes recreational diving impossible in any case.

That's it, I think.

OOC: Thanks Malkyer, i'll work on something to post tomorrow afternoon. At the moment I am too sleepy, its been one of the hottest days of the year so far over here in the UK and the result is that I am feeling tired already (at 10pm!)

If you don't mind, I'm going to TG you phase 2 soon.

If you don't mind, I'm going to TG you phase 2 soon.

OOC: Sure, go ahead.

I'll post the results once I get your TG.

So will we find out who tried to start the war?

So will we find out who tried to start the war?

Uh, it was the USEA- the USEA admitted to it earlier.

Uh, it was the USEA- the USEA admitted to it earlier.

no,no GB said he had orders that someone would get the crisis into a shooting war

He might have meant me, I told him that if American aircraft continued to violate my airspace they were to be shot downin Scandic airspace after a warning to leave.

He might have meant me, I told him that if American aircraft continued to violate my airspace they were to be shot downin Scandic airspace after a warning to leave.

ah, I thought Russia might try some "accident" to start the war

Russia would have gotten run over in the opening stages of the war and he knew that(Granted in the long run who knows what would have happened), he didn't want war.

No way I would start something at this point. Armenia-Georgia is the only country I have a land border with that isnt in the SCT or CSPS.

He might have meant me, I told him that if American aircraft continued to violate my airspace they were to be shot downin Scandic airspace after a warning to leave.

That and destroying one of my subs!

ooc
the orders I received were from a player that ordered his submarines to open fire on submarines shadowing them.

At that point someone was bound to open fire and thus 2 submarines died in the North Sea

Russia would have gotten run over in the opening stages of the war and he knew that(Granted in the long run who knows what would have happened), he didn't want war.

ooc
initially yes, but logistics would have slowed down the invasion after the opening stages and the OA had sufficient conventional forces to crush the Scandic Union by cutting of its oil, and could make a sizeable dent in the SCT oil flow as well

Though they would have had to violate neutrality of some countries and destroyed some alliances in the process if they cut all of CHina's oil.

Exactly. World Wars tend to do that. However, in the short run I'd have been in big trouble, probably resorting to scorched earth (scorched permafrost doesn't quite sound right) tactics in Siberia. However, resources would be a big problem for the CSPS and SCT. Russia, USA, and Canada would stop exports, and I'm sure Germany would be happy to pull a few strings in the AF. Leave the Chinese Army stranded in Siberia without enough supplies, and send in General Winter.

Exactly. World Wars tend to do that. However, in the short run I'd have been in big trouble, probably resorting to scorched earth (scorched permafrost doesn't quite sound right) tactics in Siberia. However, resources would be a big problem for the CSPS and SCT. Russia, USA, and Canada would stop exports, and I'm sure Germany would be happy to pull a few strings in the AF. Leave the Chinese Army stranded in Siberia without enough supplies, and send in General Winter.

My oil imports don't come from the OA nations, so their embargo won't have an effect on me.

If things get pretty bad, I can convert my coal into oil. I have enormous quantities of coal saved away for such an occassion.

And the CSPS has Central Asia

Yeah China gets alot of it's oil from fellow SCT countries, last time I checked anyways, and I'd have to be blockaded by the US in order to stop my oil shipments to CHina because I have a full agreement for the Stantly Islands or whatever they are called. And personally the US would be kinda dumb to get bad relations with an Asian country that it has good relations with.

Russia:

Still awaiting anti-rebel instructions from you so that we can wrap this up.

Russia is secretly contacted by the USEA offering the names of all sepratist contacts is Siberia and Russia as a whole as a gesture of goodwill and apology.

In a secret response Russia thanks the USEA for beginning the long process of repairing relations. Information is passed on to the KGB and Russian military, who will take appropriate actions. The list is also covertly passed on to the CIA.

hey Lesser Ribena (when he gets back): do you want me to play as the guerilla units?

My oil imports don't come from the OA nations, so their embargo won't have an effect on me.

If things get pretty bad, I can convert my coal into oil. I have enormous quantities of coal saved away for such an occassion.

have no doubt that the OA navies would have prevented any oil tankers from reaching Chinese ports, and no great big oil pipeline connects Central Asia to China yet

(might be worth building, figure 72 points at 6 points a year to overcome various impressive geographical obstacles. By the way, it will require either cooperation from Kashgaria or a huge detour south through Afghanistan via the Indian subcontinent and via Burma to the USAE (which would add another 36 points in cost)

ooc
Haneastic, send me instructions for the guerillas. Do to the rather slow pace of guerilla operations, resolution of 1962 fighting will occur during the weekend.

have no doubt that the OA navies would have prevented any oil tankers from reaching Chinese ports, and no great big oil pipeline connects Central Asia to China yet

(might be worth building, figure 72 points at 6 points a year to overcome various impressive geographical obstacles. By the way, it will require either cooperation from Kashgaria or a huge detour south through Afghanistan via the Indian subcontinent and via Burma to the USAE (which would add another 36 points in cost)

I already have an overland route with oil.

Railroads running from UIR through Pakistan / India, then to the USEA and China.

I already have an overland route with oil.

Railroads running from UIR through Pakistan / India, then to the USEA and China.

You know... those railroads are German...

BTW, I'm looking for evidence right as we speak.

Parthini']You know... those railroads are German...

BTW, I'm looking for evidence right as we speak.

Not really the UIR's were built by Pakistan, Pakistan's were built by the British, Burma's were built by the British, the USEA's were built by the USEA and only China's were built by the German's (I think).

Added on top of that the continuous infrastructre and transport improvements that Sharina spends AEF money it should all be in working order. Allowing oil from the Caspian and Middle east to be transported by train to China.

OOC: Transporting oil by rail is not half as effective as by pipeline, especially considering those same rail lines are going to be loaded with other kinds of traffic.

OOC: Transporting oil by rail is not half as effective as by pipeline, especially considering those same rail lines are going to be loaded with other kinds of traffic.

But since there is a rail line that runs that way shouldn't it be quite easy to put a oil pipe line down next to the rail line since the ground has already been leveled and vegetation cut away?

But since there is a rail line that runs that way shouldn't it be quite easy to put a oil pipe line down next to the rail line since the ground has already been leveled and vegetation cut away?

pumping a liquid over a mountain range is much more difficult technically then hauling tank cars by rail road. But also far more efficient.

Look up the California Aquaduct, Alaskan Pipeline, and Siberian Pipeline for examples-- all are tech level 7.5 technologies

pumping a liquid over a mountain range is much more difficult technically then hauling tank cars by rail road. But also far more efficient.

Look up the California Aquaduct, Alaskan Pipeline, and Siberian Pipeline for examples-- all are tech level 7.5 technologies

Hmm...

The transportation network improvement should mean expansion of not only railroads but highways. This means far more "carrying" capacity for rail and automobile traffic, meaning more oil tankers on rail or 18-wheeler oil trucks on highways.

I was wondering whether to build the oil pipeline right next to the railroads as the ground and such has already been prepared (like Ato-Sara said), or build one underground so the OA bomber pilots won't know where the pipelines are? What you can't see makes it all the more difficult to bomb.

If I build the pipeline next to the railroads, shouldn't it be cheaper instead of building one in a different route than the railroads (100 miles away for example)?

Hmm...

The transportation network improvement should mean expansion of not only railroads but highways. This means far more "carrying" capacity for rail and automobile traffic, meaning more oil tankers on rail or 18-wheeler oil trucks on highways.

I was wondering whether to build the oil pipeline right next to the railroads as the ground and such has already been prepared (like Ato-Sara said), or build one underground so the OA bomber pilots won't know where the pipelines are? What you can't see makes it all the more difficult to bomb.

If I build the pipeline next to the railroads, shouldn't it be cheaper instead of building one in a different route than the railroads (100 miles away for example)?

price given was the cheaper price.. it would cost twice as much otherwise

OK, yeah. The ones in the Ex-MEU, are German, while the ones in south UIR and Pakistan were built by the British. The ones that go through the CAR and Kashgaria and North China are German also.

Speaking of which, how much would it cost to revamp those railroads (the ones in Europe and the Middle East)? Maybe make a new lane and electrify them all and also make them better? Would there be any benefit?

Also, how difficult would it be to make a pipeline from the AF to Syria and then underwater to Yugoslavia? Would that be a tech level 8 thing?

The AF to Syria already exists, but it might cut through Kurdistan (GB said pipelines are as they are in real life unless we specifically change something)

Also, I don't think too many Syrians will be excited about the pipeline stealing their intermediary role (shipping the oil)

Prettty sure they have other things to worry about :p

Anyways, apparently underwater pipelines are really hard to make now so I think I'll stick to dominating Turkey.

I have a question though.

Why only 6 points a year? That means if the SCT goes through Kasgaria and CAR, it would take 12 years to do so. If Kasgaria is bypassed, it would take 18 years to finish construction.

The SCT could concievably build the pipeline in multiple locations (suppose they build 4 sections of pipeline at once, then link them up)- that should cut down on construction times instead of building pipeline in one direction. Some RL projects worked that way- like the Chunnel tunnel, the Alps mountains tunnels, etc- cut down construction times by half or more by doing multiple sections at once.

Suppose the SCT builds a segment in China, USEA, Burma, India / Pakistan, and UIR (5 segments all at once) then link them up instead of starting in either UIR or China then snake its way across to the other side (one continuous segment)? That should cut down cosntruction time from 18 years to somewhere like 5 years or something.

Or you could just go the easy way and go through Kashgaria.

Or you could just go the easy way and go through Kashgaria.

Taking it through the SCT nations provides more security, plus it allows the SCT nations to use it as well.

I have a question though.

Why only 6 points a year? That means if the SCT goes through Kasgaria and CAR, it would take 12 years to do so. If Kasgaria is bypassed, it would take 18 years to finish construction.

The SCT could concievably build the pipeline in multiple locations (suppose they build 4 sections of pipeline at once, then link them up)- that should cut down on construction times instead of building pipeline in one direction. Some RL projects worked that way- like the Chunnel tunnel, the Alps mountains tunnels, etc- cut down construction times by half or more by doing multiple sections at once.

Suppose the SCT builds a segment in China, USEA, Burma, India / Pakistan, and UIR (5 segments all at once) then link them up instead of starting in either UIR or China then snake its way across to the other side (one continuous segment)? That should cut down cosntruction time from 18 years to somewhere like 5 years or something.

meant 9 points a year actually. Alaskan Pipeline took 2 1/2 years to go 800 miles, so that is the limitation (and it was built at tech level 7.5)

As we are talking about roughly 3,200 miles in the southern route, or 2,600 miles in the northern (Kashgarian) route, a long schedule is reasonable as it would take roughly 10 years to build a 3000 mile pipeline, or 8.5 years to build the 2600 mile pipeline.

Factor in some extremely difficult terrain in Afghanistan, Burma, and the USAE, and you get some extra costs. So 12 years for the southern route or 8 years for the northern route is very fair.

Parthini']OK, yeah. The ones in the Ex-MEU, are German, while the ones in south UIR and Pakistan were built by the British. The ones that go through the CAR and Kashgaria and North China are German also.

Speaking of which, how much would it cost to revamp those railroads (the ones in Europe and the Middle East)? Maybe make a new lane and electrify them all and also make them better? Would there be any benefit?

Also, how difficult would it be to make a pipeline from the AF to Syria and then underwater to Yugoslavia? Would that be a tech level 8 thing?

railroads -- haven't considered it, because frankly, no significant game benefit to that

deep water pipelines like what you are proposing don't exist today, so not possible until tech level 9 at least.

railroads -- haven't considered it, because frankly, no significant game benefit to that

deep water pipelines like what you are proposing don't exist today, so not possible until tech level 9 at least.

We did build the Chunnel tunnel already in RL. So it won't be a stretch to build a smaller diameter version of the Chunnel Tunnel and fill it with a flow of oil.

Also, it won't be such a stretch to build sturdy pipes 1 or 2 inches thick of solid steel, and lay them down on the Mediterrean seafloor or along the tiny straits seperating Greece from Turkey- as the Mediterrean isn't as turbulent as, say, the Mid-Atlantic Ridge or the extremely deep trenches of the Pacific.

meant 9 points a year actually. Alaskan Pipeline took 2 1/2 years to go 800 miles, so that is the limitation (and it was built at tech level 7.5)

As we are talking about roughly 3,200 miles in the southern route, or 2,600 miles in the northern (Kashgarian) route, a long schedule is reasonable as it would take roughly 10 years to build a 3000 mile pipeline, or 8.5 years to build the 2600 mile pipeline.

Factor in some extremely difficult terrain in Afghanistan, Burma, and the USAE, and you get some extra costs. So 12 years for the southern route or 8 years for the northern route is very fair.

All right, lets take your example and apply it to what I mean by "segments" in hopes that it'll clear up stuff for everybody. GB says it takes 2 1/2 years to build a 800 mile pipeline at Tech Level 7.5, correct?

Now lets see the SCT needs to build a 2600 to 3000 mile pipeline. 800 times 4 equals 3200 miles... and 2 1/2 years times 4 equals 10 years.

Now suppose the SCT builds the pipeline in 4 sections of roughly 700 to 800 miles long (a 700 - 800 mile section should take 2 1/2 years to construct as per what GB said). The SCT constructs 4 sections AT THE SAME TIME, meaning 4 "Alaskan sized" pipelines being constructed at the same time.

Here's a rough diagram....

(Middle East)[]---1---[]---2---[]---3---[]---4---[](China)

Section 1 = 700 miles long. Built in / by the UIR.
Section 2 = 800 miles long. Built in / by India / Pakistan.
Section 3 = 700 miles long. Built in / by Burma.
Section 4 = 800 miles long. Built in / by USEA and China.
[] = Where the pipeline sections link up.

Construction of ALL 4 sections begins in, say, 1963. ALL 4 sections are roughly the same length of the Alaskan Pipeline, thus the materials and time will be same as the Alaskan Pipeline (only materials, costs, and labor will be culumative, not time)

Each section takes 2 1/2 years to build (or 3 to 4 years with difficult terrain). Therefore each section will be able to reach the "[]" part where Section 1 links up to Section 2, Section 2 links up to 3, and Section 3 links up to 4 within 3 to 4 years after construction begins.

Another diagram...

What GB is saying by 8 to 12 years would be true if the SCT constructs the pipeline in this direction...

(Middle East)[]-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->[](China)

Now what I propose is this (and why the time stuff won't be cumulative).

(Middle East)[]--<--1-->--[]--<--2-->--[]--<--3-->--[]--<--4-->--[](China)

Note the direction of the arrows. So you see, the pipeline grows in BOTH ways in FOUR places, instead of as one-way in ONE place. Therefore with this arrangement, time required to build the pipelines shouldn't take more than what it did in Alaska in RL (3 or 4 years at most, including extra time and money for harsh terrain in USEA and Burma).

============================

EDIT:

Anoter perpsective- Type A will be GB's idea, and Type B will be my idea...

Year 1 of construction.

Type A Pipeline:

(Middle East)[]-->

Type B Pipeline:

(Middle East)[]xxx-1-xxx[]xxx-2-xxx[]xxx-3-xxx[]xxx-4-xxx[](China)

(Small x's means pipeline not yet laid)
(- means pipelines already laid)

Year 2 of construction:

Type A Pipeline:

(Middle East)[]-->-->

Type B Pipeline:

(Middle East)[]xx--1--xx[]xx--2--xx[]xx--3--xx[]xx--4--xx[](China)

(Small x's means pipeline not yet laid)
(- means pipelines already laid)

Year 3 of construction:

Type A Pipeline:

(Middle East)[]-->-->-->

Type B Pipeline:

(Middle East)[]x---1---x[]x---2---x[]x---3---x[]x---4---x[](China)

(Small x's means pipeline not yet laid)
(- means pipelines already laid)

Year 4 of construction (year 1967)

Type A Pipeline:

(Middle East)[]-->-->-->-->

Type B Pipeline: (completed)

(Middle East)[]----1----[]----2----[]----3----[]----4----[](China)

(Small x's means pipeline not yet laid)
(- means pipelines already laid)

=========================

So you can see, with my method, 4 times as much pipeline is built using my method than in GB's method. That means I can build the 3000 mile pipeline within 4 years if it is built in 4 roughly equal length sections AT THE SAME TIME in 4 locations, instead of one continuous spot.

So by Year 4 in the example above, GB's 8 to 12 year process would have the pipeline only reach, 700 to 800 miles, probably the border of UIR and India / Pakistan- only 1/2 to 1/3 complete, while my method would have had the ENTIRE pipeline linked up and finished.

Well if you want to do it that way, it should cost quadrupal what GB proposes, if not more. By doing it in sections, you have to have 4 times the amount of labor, engineering, capital, transportation and living payments for the workers, because instead of having 1 workforce do it 1 at a time, you have 4 workforces doing 4 at a time.

That doesn't include the difficulties that starting in the middle of the desert provides. It could be done, and China would have the manpower, but it would be horrendously costly.

And the whole point of undersea pipelines is so I can bypass those dirty Turks.

railroads -- haven't considered it, because frankly, no significant game benefit to that

Wouldn't there be like a commerce or tourism boost?

Parthini']Well if you want to do it that way, it should cost quadrupal what GB proposes, if not more. By doing it in sections, you have to have 4 times the amount of labor, engineering, capital, transportation and living payments for the workers, because instead of having 1 workforce do it 1 at a time, you have 4 workforces doing 4 at a time.

That doesn't include the difficulties that starting in the middle of the desert provides. It could be done, and China would have the manpower, but it would be horrendously costly.

And the whole point of undersea pipelines is so I can bypass those dirty Turks.

You're talking about China, with 700+ points each year

Parthini']Well if you want to do it that way, it should cost quadrupal what GB proposes, if not more. By doing it in sections, you have to have 4 times the amount of labor, engineering, capital, transportation and living payments for the workers, because instead of having 1 workforce do it 1 at a time, you have 4 workforces doing 4 at a time.

That doesn't include the difficulties that starting in the middle of the desert provides. It could be done, and China would have the manpower, but it would be horrendously costly.

And the whole point of undersea pipelines is so I can bypass those dirty Turks.

The problem is that the SCT needs to have this done ASAP, because who knows when the next SCT vs OA confrontation (or another Siberia type of crisis) may take place. This method will essentially remove any effect OA naval blocakdes will have on the SCT's oil supply.

If China wants to spend 40% of it's income on a pipeline, be my guest, but I can guarentee you it wouldn't be popular at home...

The problem is that the SCT needs to have this done ASAP, because who knows when the next SCT vs OA confrontation (or another Siberia type of crisis) may take place. This method will essentially remove any effect OA naval blocakdes will have on the SCT's oil supply.

And we all saw how well that worked for the Union...

Sharina, I'm pretty sure the Alaskan pipeline was built in segments just like your proposing. Theres no way around the time here, going through Afghanistan and all that is some extremely, extremely rough terrain and some extremely long distances. No way around that.

Parthini']If China wants to spend 40% of it's income on a pipeline, be my guest, but I can guarentee you it wouldn't be popular at home...

Not ncessarily.

I have the whole SCT to support this endeavour, and the expenses will be spread out over several years instead of all at once.

Besides, the SCT will not be the ones who go to war first. It will be the OA who declares war and invades first... the Union technically declared war on the US- and if the Union did not go to war in WW-2, and sat tight instead of going to a global war over some islands near Spain, then the Union probably would have bought itself quite some time to prepare itself for WW-2 should it have happened in 1928, 1930, 1935 or whatever.

Besides, China can protect its oil pipelines with its 24 units of fighters if huge enemy bomber fleets are incoming (and the SCT has even more fighters available). The radar and spy satellite networks the SCT has will give it 6 hours or more warning of aerial attack (spy satellites can see if large numbers of B-52's are taking off from bases in America for instance). 6 hours is plenty of time to scramble fighters and then have them intercept the bomber fleets before they get into range of the pipelines.

In short, China needs a way to maintain its oil supply should a war erupt between the SCT and OA in the future, and not have to worry about OA naval blockades preventing China from getting the oil it needs to fight back aganist the OA.

Taking it through the SCT nations provides more security, plus it allows the SCT nations to use it as well.

Seing as how the pipeline orriginates in a non SCT member, but instead a CSPS nation just like Kashgaria, whether or not the pipeline itself is in SCT lands or not is irrevelant, cause the source isn't.

Seing as how the pipeline orriginates in a non SCT member, but instead a CSPS nation just like Kashgaria, whether or not the pipeline itself is in SCT lands or not is irrevelant, cause the source isn't.

The pipeline will originate in Middle East, mainly in UIR, and should the Middle East swing more pro-SCT (UIR influence), then all the better.

I thought it was coming from the CAR?

I thought it was coming from the CAR?

Partly, yes.

China gets its oil from a variety of sources.

1. Oil deposits in China
2. Oil in CAR
3. Oil in UIR
4. Oil in Middle East
5. Surplus oil from other SCT nations

I am sticking with the 8 or 12 years on this. Simply put, it takes that long at least, and I am erring to your favor too I think.

The Chunnel by the way was constructed using Tech level 8.5 technology

Alaskan and Siberian pipelines were built using tech level 7.5 technology.

I based the pipeline running from the Aral Sea, figuring the UIR would build feeder pipelines (essentially for free as oil companies want to link to their markets). But this kind of project is too big for a megacorporation, so it has to be government funded.

The limit on points is to force you to follow realism on time frames. The Pipeline is crossing some of the worst deserts and highest mountian ranges in the world (the Hindu Kush pretty damn big) using either route, and if using the southern route are crossing a huge river system (Ganges), another one (in Burma), and another in USAE (Mekong) plus jungle covered mountains in Burma and Laos, or if going north, the third harshest desert in the world (the Gobi)

incidently, most of the Middle Eastern oil is in easy bomber range for US carriers or strategic bombers, or within range of a rather large German army in Arabia, or potential range of OA forces (as they are easier to supply by sea then the SCT can supply by land).

So its still a strategic issue for the SCT. SCT oil resources in the South China Sea are even easier to interdict.

Of course the Europeans have the problem of the North Sea oil fields being a battlefield if the Scandics and British fight, but the OA does have the advantage of having a lot of its oil in the Americas, Nigeria or within range of its ground forces with significant effort.

Russia oil is somewhat vulnerable to land invasion by the Turks by the way.

Bottem line, in a denial strategy, the OA is likely to come out ahead (still having some when the SCT/Scandics don't)

Of course this would ruin the world economy, but thats another issue

Why are we talking about this in the Siberian thread anyway?

PLus, everytime GB posts here about this I come in expecting to see something about the guerilla's and instead I see pipelines.

Why are we talking about this in the Siberian thread anyway?

PLus, everytime GB posts here about this I come in expecting to see something about the guerilla's and instead I see pipelines.

well it would have been better in the main thread or economic thread, but its here now.

1962 Guerilla activity will be resolved probably on Saturday

So its still a strategic issue for the SCT. SCT oil resources in the South China Sea are even easier to interdict.

Easily within range of the massive Chinese air-force with 24+ fighters and 12+ bomber units (and now AEW aircraft, and not to mention additional fighters and bombers that the rest of the SCT has). The OA navy will take a severe beating though (especially in the carrier aircraft department).

Bottem line, in a denial strategy, the OA is likely to come out ahead (still having some when the SCT/Scandics don't)

Of course this would ruin the world economy, but thats another issue

I have ways around that. Besides, should the war (if any SCT vs OA war) go nuclear, none of this will matter, really.

we will see Sharina... just be aware, as always, the US has a thorough warplan ;)

1962 Siberia

Rebels continue to be a problem, but the Russian Army and police agencies manage to destroy most of the armed bands west of Irkutsk and drive them out of the Lake Baikal region as well. The survivors mostly go to ground and some terrorist attacks begin in Russian cities as far west as Moscow, including a bombing of a movie theater that kills 100 in Moscow.

With foreign support drying up, and facing a capable Russian army, the armed guerilla struggle is mostly destroyed by the end of the year.

A few hundred hard core believers remain however, but now are more of a police problem then a military problem.

OOC: Don't forget about the Caucases.

we will see Sharina... just be aware, as always, the US has a thorough warplan ;)

A waste of time, we don't have an offensive war plan. Because we don't intend on going to war.

Anyway how just would you interdict the south China Sea Oil when that particular sea is boxed in on all sides by SCT member nations?

OOC: Don't forget about the Caucases.

ooc
haven't

IC
discussions between leaders of Cheznia and Daghistan with the Russian government continue

For now, guerilla groups remain under arms, but are not active, while the Russian government continues to focus on Siberia for now with its military forces.

A waste of time, we don't have an offensive war plan. Because we don't intend on going to war.

Anyway how just would you interdict the south China Sea Oil when that particular sea is boxed in on all sides by SCT member nations?

energy resources can be targeted just like industrial centers by missile or air strikes, and if you review the Oceanic Alliance thread, you will note the Alliance militaries has been experimenting with dealing with land based airpower threats to the fleet.

As well as using strategic bombers to hit maritime targets (and oil rigs are much easier to hit then ships)

Seeking to end the deadlock on debates with various Caucasian groups, an offer is made to waive any tax requirements, and loosen the basic standards for political structure and policy (ie, whatever level social services they wish, only laws required are basic), giving the autonomous areas almost total control.

As a reminder, the other benefits of autonomy include the fact that no military units will be stationed there in peacetime, and the autonomous area will be allowed to maintain its own armed forces, although all arms sales must be approved. In addition, the citizens are still Russian citizens, so they gain all the diplomatic protections usually afforded. In addition, governments of autonomous regions may elect to establish areas of interest in Russian embassies, for better cooperation between autonomous governments and independent nations.

The Tuva area of Russia is also quietly granted autonomy. The area, comprised almost entirely of indigenous groups, will be a haven for Siberians who are from minority races and prefer an independent nation. However, several wanted criminals from the crackdown in Siberia have been caught fleeing into the Tuva Autonomous State.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/Flag_of_Tuva.svg/150px-Flag_of_Tuva.svg.png
-Flag of TAS

ooc
I am inclined to think that would settle things in the Caucasus region. No fighting occured there, so the hard feelings wouldn't be there. Siberia might still have some terrorists, but not many.

Need Malkyer opinion or Sharina or both.